Marcus, Scott (GEAE, RHI Consulting)
scott.marcus at ae.ge.com
Wed Feb 26 11:51:46 CST 2003
John, Yes, I'm dreaming. But I do think that the Studio .Net platform is moving in the direction of "Access" type of RAD design. Those features I mentioned are why I use Access(in addition to my client's requirements). I was excited about Studio .NET and think most these capabilities are present. How much is built in and how much is 3rd party will be interesting to learn. Now to find the time to learn it well enough to replace Access as my primary skill... To answer your question... From what I know of you (which isn't alot...just what you post), I think it will be true once you know .Net like Access. Scott Marcus > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 12:37 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Cc: AccessD > Subject: RE: [dba-VB] OT: .NET - Data grid syncs to combo > > The column is resizable by placing the cursor over the vertical line in the > column header and dragging it. The individual row is resizable - same way. > Resizes just that row though, not all rows. The column is sortable by > clicking on the column header. > > As for the rest, I think you are dreaming. This is not Access.net, this is > VB.net. OTOH, they claim you drop ANY object onto a form. If you build a > "main form" with a tab control, build a "subform", and manage to place the > subform on the main form then you have a subform. The master / child > properties aren't there, but we all know how to set up the subform's > datasource query to filter on a control on the main form. > > I understand completely the desire to have Access' RAD tools for database > specific stuff. I can't say for sure since I am new to this, but I do not > think VB.net has those things you point to. OTOH it has so much else now that > Access doesn't have that it becomes a push as to which is more powerful for db > design. .Net's handling of classes and inheritance, data sources, XML and > other very powerful tools make it a truly awesome environment. > > My entire objection at this point more or less boils down to "I know how to do > that in Access". I will have to learn new ways to do things that are just > built in to Access, but I do think that the flexibility of .NET makes it worth > diving into. Whether it will entirely replace Access for my development is > doubtful, at least not in the near future. I am just too fast in Access and > can get entire dbs prototyped in days / weeks where it will take much longer > (for now anyway) in .NET. > > Will that be true once I know .NET like I know Access? > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-admin at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-admin at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Marcus, Scott > (GEAE, RHI Consulting) > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 12:14 PM > To: 'dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com' > Subject: RE: [dba-VB] OT: .NET - Data grid syncs to combo > > > John, > > I'm looking at the sorting capabilities, the resize(both height and width) > capabilities, drag and drop column ordering, and data editing within the cell. > This may all be there, I just haven't dug into it yet. I also need to be able > to > turn those features off and on (Access doesn't really have that capability). > Other big features that would push it over the top are: a query designer on > par > with Access, sub forms and reports, continuous forms, and better reporting > capabilities. I pretty much want the capabilities of Access in Studio .Net. > Again, all this can be acomplished with 3rd party tools or enough time to > design > your own. That extra cost to get Studio up to par with Access (interface > design > wise) with 3rd party tools has been the killer for me. > > If Microsoft made a tool that had the power of Studio .Net, the interface > capabilities of Access, the query designer of Access, and able to complie like > Studio .Net does that would be "The Tool" to have. The compiling issue (Studio > not offering a true compile) is a debate I'd rather not get into, I just HATE > the Access runtime. Maybe they could offer something like "Studio .Net Access > interface add-in". Now that I would purchase. > > Scott Marcus > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 10:41 AM > > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [dba-VB] OT: .NET - Data grid syncs to combo > > > > I don't use the data grid in Access. I was put off by the potential > problems > > of users changing the columns till one disappeared (and the support calls > that > > ensue). > > > > I can tell you that the data grid looks similar to Access' form is switched > to > > datasheet. The biggest difference is that if you expose the column heading, > > you can click on the heading and it sorts on that column. Click again and > it > > sorts in reverse order. > > > > I am not fluent enough in data grids in either technology to tell you much > I'm > > afraid. What capabilities are you looking for? > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-vb-admin at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-vb-admin at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Marcus, Scott > > (GEAE, RHI Consulting) > > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 10:32 AM > > To: 'dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com' > > Subject: RE: [dba-VB] OT: .NET - Data grid syncs to combo > > > > > > John, > > > > One of the issues that I know I will run into is that my clients are going > to > > want top see all of this data (like Access does...looks very Excel like...my > > clients are very Excel savy) in a data grid. Previous versions of VB had > > limited > > built in data grid capabilities (I don't want to spend another $1K on 3rd > > party > > tools). If the data grid is alot closer to what Access provides that would > be > > great. I haven't messed much with .Net since my initial "playing around" a > > year > > ago, but I do need to get heavily into it. Any input on the data grid > > capabilities? > > > > Scott Marcus > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:49 AM > > > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [dba-VB] OT: .NET - Data grid syncs to combo > > > > > > Marcus, > > > > > > I started programming in the early 80s and in the late 80s ended up in > Turbo > > > Pascal which went OO. It was extremely powerful (for the day) yet > strongly > > > typed unlike the C languages of the day. I purchased all of the Borland > > > toolboxes, the application framework etc., bought books and really got > into > > > the whole inheritance thing > > > > > > I worked in that until I moved to Access in the early 90s. While Access > was > > a > > > huge step up in drag and drop design functionality, and radically > different > > > (and extremely powerful) in the use of the event driven paradigm, it was a > > > huge step backwards on the OO side since it had nothing at all that even > > > remotely resembled inheritance. > > > > > > .Net is almost like old home week. It is a highly structure system, with > a > > > huge base framework that provides instant functionality like I have never > > seen > > > before, with true inheritance, with this new XML thingy built right in, > with > > > access to data from anywhere. The biggest problem I foresee is simply > that > > > the vast scope makes learning it a chore. But is so incredibly powerful, > it > > > is simply amazing. > > > > > > I was reading a tech paper last night where they built up XML docs in a > word > > > processor, saved them to a file (just for demo purposes), then simply used > a > > > built in property of a built in framework class to load the file and bind > to > > > that data. But not just bind as we know it. They bound the data to > > > properties of the form. Any property of any control (and forms inherit > from > > > the control class so I'm told) can be bound to data. Which makes possible > > > things like fore color or back color or font a property of the record. > > > Painless storage of size / location of forms. Painless user modification > > and > > > storage of color preferences. If you can imagine it, you can store it in > a > > > table and drive it from there. > > > > > > But not just tables. The objects that actually load and expose the data > can > > > use XML as easily as they can use tables. They can use arrays. The > arrays > > > can be simple arrays of values, or arrays of objects - CLASSES for > example, > > > and you can be binding a control property to a property of the class. > > > > > > This stuff is truly awesome. Built in collection functionality for > stacks, > > > queues, arrays that you can just dynamically add new members to (not to > > > mention your simple collection). And anything can be sub classed to add > > your > > > own functionality. Not just interface inheritance, but true > implementation > > > inheritance. Do you want a collection that stores an object, with built > in > > > checking to prevent storing anything but that object? Just subclass the > > > collection class and over ride the .add method, typing the object input > > > parameter. Done! > > > > > > As can be seen, I am truly psyched about this thing. I did a little > > > programming in VB (I wish it had been more now) but it was so difficult to > > get > > > at data (and I do databases) so it just didn't offer enough to make it > worth > > > the switch. .Net on the other hand is an order of magnitude more > powerful, > > > and getting at data is second nature. > > > > > > And as if all that isn't enough, you can pick your language. > > > > > > Amazing stuff. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: dba-vb-admin at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:dba-vb-admin at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Marcus, Scott > > > (GEAE, RHI Consulting) > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 8:10 AM > > > To: 'dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com' > > > Subject: RE: [dba-VB] OT: .NET - Data grid syncs to combo > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > Less than a year ago, I decided to convert an access application to .Net. > > > Within > > > one day, I had a working prototype in both VB.Net and C#.Net. It was > > extremely > > > easy. You are right in that the combo changes the data set which in turn > > > affects > > > all controls linked to it. Just for kicks, I also bought Borland C++ and > did > > > the > > > same thing (within a day). > > > > > > My conclusion is that all the major tools these days are offering click > and > > > create applications. It's just a matter of picking the technology you > think > > is > > > most marketable. I don't think you can go wrong in learning .Net. I'm > still > > > torn > > > as to what technology to pick (although the next version of .Net is coming > > out > > > in April and is just a $29 upgrade for previous .Net owners and includes > the > > > capability to make Pocket PC.Net applications). > > > > > > I'm very interested in discussing the techniques developers are using to > > > convert > > > Access applications to .Net. > > > > > > Hoping to find intelligent useful discussion on .Net, > > > > > > Scott Marcus > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 8:32 PM > > > To: AccessD > > > Cc: AccessD - VBA > > > Subject: [dba-VB] OT: .NET - Data grid syncs to combo > > > > > > > > > I have moved my billing database BE to sql server, hooked up my existing > > > Access FE and continue to use that as I play with the data in .Net. > > > > > > In the meantime, in VB.Net I created a bound form last night (or I think > > > it's bound anyway, not positive). It was using an OLEConnection, which > > > tonight I switched to an SQL connection. It's supposed to be faster. The > > > form simply displays the state table (all fields) in a data grid. You > > > really can't get much simpler than that, though I suppose for something > like > > > a state table it would suffice. > > > > > > I decided to try and figure out how to use a combo box to select a record > in > > > the data grid. Dragged and dropped a combo to the form, hooked the > > > datasource property to the same data source I was using for the form / > data > > > grid. Set the display member (the field displayed) to ST_Abrev (the 2 > char > > > code), and the value member (the PK of the table) to ST_ID (the PK of the > > > table). Opened the form, selected the state in the combo and the data > grid > > > moved the record selector to that state. > > > > > > Man was THAT easy! So the combination of everything allows the combo to > > > just act as a record selector without all of the code required in Access. > > > Not knowing exactly what is happening, I have to assume that the combo > > > selecting something causes a record selector pointer in the data set > object > > > to point somewhere. Since the data grid is using the same data set > object, > > > the data grid displays the newly selected record. > > > > > > Just a guess of course. This stuff is way over my head. > > > > > > But so easy (if I just understood what I was doing). > > > > > > Cool beans man! > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > Colby Consulting > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > Is email taking over your day? Manage your time with eMailBoss. > > > Try it free! http://www.eMailBoss.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > Is email taking over your day? Manage your time with eMailBoss. > > > Try it free! http://www.eMailBoss.com > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Is email taking over your day? Manage your time with eMailBoss. > > Try it free! http://www.eMailBoss.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Is email taking over your day? Manage your time with eMailBoss. > Try it free! http://www.eMailBoss.com