Gustav Brock
Gustav at cactus.dk
Mon Apr 20 16:15:15 CDT 2009
Hi Shamil I think you are right, don't speed up things too much. To speak for myself: I never know when real work kicks in leaving little or no time for fun programming. As for the unit testing, this is blank area for me. Don't we need the high-level and expensive VS versions (Team System) for this? These are beyond my budget. Also I tried to install NUunit 2.4.8 on my Vista but no go, all kind of errors pops up, including one which claims that the project wasn't built with a known test system - which is true. To be honest, I have no idea where to start debugging this install ... /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> 20-04-2009 08:01 >>> Hi SCRUM Team, Some afterthoughts here on splitting Northwind.NET "monolith" and using Custom Controls - that seems to be too quick and too large transition/transformation when done in one-two follow-up projects. And without clear reasons: - converting forms into Custom Controls just to use them later in WPF application(s) - why should we care about that now? - splitting Northwind.NET "monolith" into several classlibs - that would introduce (quite) some complexity especially for beginner level developers - we should probably postpone doing that until there will be a real need in such a splitting... Recap: - let's target TreeView based MDI application as Gustav proposed - but on first step let's just make MDI application with ordinary menu/toolbar, and on the second step introduce TreeView (we can prepare TreeView support custom classes and data structures (if any) on first step); - let's also separate all navigation logic into dedicated custom class(es)/namespace - you can see in the existing code - it's partially done already; - let's also introduce nUNit and create a special console project for Unit Testing and develop tests for navigational logic and maybe some others... Please advise/propose/add your thoughts what other tasks we could solve in the first follow-up project. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:18:25 +0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Proposing/Planning Northwind.NET v.1.5 > > Hi Gustav, > > Thank you. > > Yes - "a treeview structured menu system to replace the switchboard form." > > <<< > If so, I made one recently and it has its challenges, but users are very happy with it. > >>> > Yes, I do remember you have posted on that subject on AccessD or dba-VB - can we use parts of this your application GUI in our open source Northwind.NET project? > > <<< > A MDI Parent Form was the container and all app forms were children of this. > >>> > I'd propose to use SDI not MDI and Custom Controls developed/"morphed" from Northwind.NET v.1.0 forms. > SDI will use Splitter control to split SDI form into TreeView section and a Custom Controls' section. For the v.1.5 we can even use List Control instead of TreeView. > > For v.2.0 there will be additional Splitter control introduced to further split Custom Controls' section into two subsections: ListView and Custom Conrtols. v.2.0 will also for sure use TreeView as the main navigation method as well as will introduce paged navigation via ListView - the way the forms are getting data now in Northwind.NET v.1.0 is not good/will be slow for large datasets - that has to be changed... > > <<< > split "monolith" > >>> > I mean to move/convert: > > 1) Datasets into Northwind.NET.DataSets; > > 2) Forms into Northwind.NET.Forms (or Northwind.NET.Forms.UserControls) having custom controls obstained from current forms; > > 3) Reports into Northwind.NET.Reports - that would have all .rdlc files as well as custom controls obtained from current reports' forms (but with just one generic custom control for reports without parameters) and dedicated custom controls for reports with parameters. (We can even try to develop generic solution with one custom control for all reports and generating controls to enter parameter values on-the-fly but that would need some advanced programming I wanted to avoid because of tight deadlines/scarse development resources - but if anybody from outside of our team will come with ready to use generic solution we can use it immediately) > > The idea to use Custom Controls has an advantage to have them reused in the follow-up WPF sample application(s) "out-of-the-box" because WPF forms can host WinForms custom controls AFAIK although I didn't test that... > > Of course when going from "monolith" to modularized architecture there come some side-effects/draw-backs - one of them is described here: > > Issue On Decoupling DataSets From WinForms FE Project > http://northwind.codeplex.com/Thread/View.aspx?ThreadId=53037 > > This issue (if I'm not missing its effective workaround) is one of the reasons (for me at least) to "suspect" DataSets are not so good for Enterprise Level development (if MS will not fix the above issue real soon) - and that's why our roadmap to come finally to ADO.NET Entity Framework is looking currently as the right way to aim at long run... > > Last note for now: splitting "monolith" Northwind.NET.FE project doesn't mean here to break it - I'd propsoe to leave it as it's, and create Northwind.NET.FE.1.5 project for the intermediate release and then Northwind.NET.FE.2.0 for teh release having Treeview + ListView paged + Custom Controls based user interface. > > Of course one can propose many more improvements (/new sections) to GUI but to keep developing and releasing new versions steadily we have to keep adding new features/new GUI elements in small chunks... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" <Gustav at cactus.dk> > To: <dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 19:27:35 +0200 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Proposing/Planning Northwind.NET v.1.5 > > > Hi Shamil > > > > Count me in please! > > > > But I think you need to elaborate a bit on your thoughts about "TreeView based GUI" and "monolith" ... > > > > I guess you mean a treeview structured menu system to replace the switchboard form. If so, I made one recently and it has its challenges, but users are very happy with it. A MDI Parent Form was the container and all app forms were children of this. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> 19-04-2009 19:11:05 >>> > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > With Northwind.NET v.1.0 has got released today I wanted to propose to immediately start the next week a follow-up project: > > > > Northwind.NET v.1.5 Sample Application - that would be an intermediate project/release to develop and release later Northwind.NET v.2.0 Sample application: the idea is to "morph" in two steps the current set of forms and reports (Northwind.NET v.1.0) into TreeView based GUI as well as to modularize the current Northwind.NET.FE "monolith". > > > > Who is in? > > Please announce here your interest to participate in the follow-up project. Then we can exchange our ideas what we can do. > > Planned deadline for v.1.5 release are two weeks starting Monday, April 20, 2009. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. I still didn't have opportunity to keep tracing our project progress in TargetProcess as I have had to do too much development and I didn't have free time left for TargetProcess data entering/editing... > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com