From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 05:26:30 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:26:30 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM and C# Message-ID: Hello Gustav, Mike, John, Doug, Are you here in dba-VB? Andy asked us to switch to this list as the subject is a kind of off-topic for Access-D. Let's have posting/dicussing the subject topics only here in dba-VB? Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 05:46:12 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:46:12 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum Message-ID: Hi Shamil No problem for me with TargetProcess and five members. And if "lurkers" are allowed, it would be fine. Which tool is best I really will leave to you as I don't know what factors are important. I think, however, that it must be free to establish and use. /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 12:17:14 >>> Hi Gustav, 5 team members shoudl be optimal for this first project. Additional Access-D members who wanted to join could play the role of ProductOwner/stakeholders/users. And in the next project we can try to extend the team. TargetProcess currently looks the best SCRUM/agile project management/tracking tools for me because of the free community edition with the complete functionality and because it's ASP.NET based. But of course we have to look how it works when installed on ASP.NET hosting server: it looks good on demos, if could be not so good (slow) when used from Internet. If that will not work then we can look for some alternative and meanwhile keep ProdcutBacklog and BurnDown task list and other tracking info manually as for this small project and 5 team members that woudl be not that much additional work... Maybe we can just use MS Live or Google groupwork/teamwork features... But TargetProcess being dedicated for SCRUM/agile process and have good credentials looks the first candidate to use now... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:18:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum > Hi Shamil > > But wouldn't it be dangerous to rely on TargetProcess Community Edition and only five free licenses? If a sixth member would join (you aimed for 7 +/-2 members) we all will have to pay $249 which I think is not likely to be accepted. > > I installed Popfly (very easy). It integrates directly into Visual Studio as a menu entry - couldn't be easier. If it fits the purpose, of course, which I can't tell. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > Thank you, Doug, > > Now we have 5 team members! :) > > Gustav, > Mike, > John, > Doug, > Shamil > > And the team is complete for this first project as we plan to use TargetProcess SCRUM/agile management softwarem which free community edition has only five free licenses. I have got this edition already and I plan to install it within this week on my ASP.NET hosting site (because I do not have server side access to thsi ASP.NEt hosting site the installation needs some manual work). From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 05:58:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:58:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, Gustav. Let's wait for Mike, John and Doug to appear here and then set and prioritize the short list of preparatory tasks to fullfll before we start actual teamwork pogramming of MS Access NorthWind to .NET Winforms + MS SQL NorthWind conversion project. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:46:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > Hi Shamil > > No problem for me with TargetProcess and five members. And if "lurkers" are allowed, it would be fine. > > Which tool is best I really will leave to you as I don't know what factors are important. I think, however, that it must be free to establish and use. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 12:17:14 >>> > > Hi Gustav, > > 5 team members shoudl be optimal for this first project. > > Additional Access-D members who wanted to join could play the role of ProductOwner/stakeholders/users. > > And in the next project we can try to extend the team. > > TargetProcess currently looks the best SCRUM/agile project management/tracking tools for me because of the free community edition with the complete functionality and because it's ASP.NET based. > > But of course we have to look how it works when installed on ASP.NET hosting server: it looks good on demos, if could be not so good (slow) when used from Internet. > > If that will not work then we can look for some alternative and meanwhile keep ProdcutBacklog and BurnDown task list and other tracking info manually as for this small project and 5 team members that woudl be not that much additional work... > > Maybe we can just use MS Live or Google groupwork/teamwork features... > > But TargetProcess being dedicated for SCRUM/agile process and have good credentials looks the first candidate to use now... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:18:27 +0100 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum > > > Hi Shamil > > > > But wouldn't it be dangerous to rely on TargetProcess Community Edition and only five free licenses? If a sixth member would join (you aimed for 7 +/-2 members) we all will have to pay $249 which I think is not likely to be accepted. > > > > I installed Popfly (very easy). It integrates directly into Visual Studio as a menu entry - couldn't be easier. If it fits the purpose, of course, which I can't tell. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > > > Thank you, Doug, > > > > Now we have 5 team members! :) > > > > Gustav, > > Mike, > > John, > > Doug, > > Shamil > > > > And the team is complete for this first project as we plan to use TargetProcess SCRUM/agile management softwarem which free community edition has only five free licenses. I have got this edition already and I plan to install it within this week on my ASP.NET hosting site (because I do not have server side access to thsi ASP.NEt hosting site the installation needs some manual work). > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 07:37:09 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 08:37:09 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum References: Message-ID: I'm here. Hoping that we can just use C# Express ... - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > > OK, Gustav. > > Let's wait for Mike, John and Doug to appear here and then set and > prioritize the short list of preparatory tasks to fullfll before we start > actual teamwork pogramming of MS Access NorthWind to .NET Winforms + MS > SQL NorthWind conversion project. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:46:12 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > >> Hi Shamil >> >> No problem for me with TargetProcess and five members. And if "lurkers" >> are allowed, it would be fine. >> >> Which tool is best I really will leave to you as I don't know what >> factors are important. I think, however, that it must be free to >> establish and use. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 12:17:14 >>> >> >> Hi Gustav, >> >> 5 team members shoudl be optimal for this first project. >> >> Additional Access-D members who wanted to join could play the role of >> ProductOwner/stakeholders/users. >> >> And in the next project we can try to extend the team. >> >> TargetProcess currently looks the best SCRUM/agile project >> management/tracking tools for me because of the free community edition >> with the complete functionality and because it's ASP.NET based. >> >> But of course we have to look how it works when installed on ASP.NET >> hosting server: it looks good on demos, if could be not so good (slow) >> when used from Internet. >> >> If that will not work then we can look for some alternative and meanwhile >> keep ProdcutBacklog and BurnDown task list and other tracking info >> manually as for this small project and 5 team members that woudl be not >> that much additional work... >> >> Maybe we can just use MS Live or Google groupwork/teamwork features... >> >> But TargetProcess being dedicated for SCRUM/agile process and have good >> credentials looks the first candidate to use now... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Gustav Brock" >> To: >> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:18:27 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum >> >> > Hi Shamil >> > >> > But wouldn't it be dangerous to rely on TargetProcess Community Edition >> > and only five free licenses? If a sixth member would join (you aimed >> > for 7 +/-2 members) we all will have to pay $249 which I think is not >> > likely to be accepted. >> > >> > I installed Popfly (very easy). It integrates directly into Visual >> > Studio as a menu entry - couldn't be easier. If it fits the purpose, of >> > course, which I can't tell. >> > >> > /gustav >> > >> > >> > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> >> > >> > Thank you, Doug, >> > >> > Now we have 5 team members! :) >> > >> > Gustav, >> > Mike, >> > John, >> > Doug, >> > Shamil >> > >> > And the team is complete for this first project as we plan to use >> > TargetProcess SCRUM/agile management softwarem which free community >> > edition has only five free licenses. I have got this edition already >> > and I plan to install it within this week on my ASP.NET hosting site >> > (because I do not have server side access to thsi ASP.NEt hosting site >> > the installation needs some manual work). >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 08:01:34 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:01:34 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNjcnVtIGFuZCBDIw==?= In-Reply-To: <49ABD90C.5010408@colbyconsulting.com> References: <49ABD90C.5010408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John, Let's switch to dba-VB (this message crossposted there). OK. Our task now is to find a way how to handle the context when we have different VS and C# Express version. We can handle that I think - there are several ways how to do that - please all teh team members write here what VS or Express version you plan to use: Gustav Mike John Doug Shamil - 1st. VS2005 Prof. as it's important for ReportViewer control and John doesn't have VS2008 Standard. 2nd - VS2008 Prof. if everybody manages to get somehow at least VS2008 Standard version. Once again it's desirable to have the same .NET development development tools but in our case we I think can rather flexibly hanlde the contex with us having diffrenet versions. IOW my choise above is my context not my proposal to eveybody to get one or another of the above versions. Still unclear here does VS2005 Stabdard or VS2008 Standard build well the sample projects I posted the link of yesterday http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip Mike I did get you have Express version only - we will find how to hadle that context. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:03:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > Shamil, > > Professional edition costs a fair amount. Given that I make no money off of .Net (yet) I am unable > to spend on it. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Well, we can try to get this project done with 2005 and 2008 versions of VS hopefully Standard and Prof. version would be both OK. > > > > The best of course would be to get VS2008 Prof. for everybody (Standard editions would also qualify if it compiles well test solutions and allow to design .NET Report Viewer reports - http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB)) > > > > If Standard Edition doesn't allow to edit .NET Report Viewer reports then those reports can be placed in classlib, and the team members with Prof. Editions will design reports, the other team members will design forms - that should be possible... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jwcolby > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 00:05:48 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > > > >> The problem is that everyone needs to use the same environment. The Express version's code won't > >> run in VS and vice versa. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> > >> > >> William Hindman wrote: > >>> ...dl VS2008 Express for free instead ...you can't compile dlls or use > >>> add-ons with it but otherwise you should be able to contribute/participate > >>> without laying out a few hundred until you're certain its worthwhile for > >>> you. > >>> > >>> William > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------- > >>> From: "Mike Mattys" > >>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:37 PM > >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>> > >>>> I have neither. > >>>> I'll have to visit eBay > >>>> > >>>> - > >>>> Michael R Mattys > >>>> MapPoint and Database Dev > >>>> www.mattysconsulting.com > >>>> - > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Gustav Brock" > >>>> To: > >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:28 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> I have both VS2005 and VS2008 running, both in Standard version however. > >>>>> > >>>>> /gustav > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 01-03-2009 22:18:27 >>> > >>>>> Forwarded from Shamil who has some trouble with his AccessD mail account: > >>>>> > >>>>> *- > >>>>> > >>>>> Gustav and Mike do you have VS2005? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 08:01:25 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:01:25 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum Message-ID: Hi Michael Fine! Popfly should work with Express versions as well: http://www.popfly.com/Overview/Explorer.aspx /gustav >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 14:37:09 >>> I'm here. Hoping that we can just use C# Express ... - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 08:26:12 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:26:12 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum References: Message-ID: <849D391F39A148FFBD799B12EBFC973E@Mattys> Installed and signed up - where are we locating ourselves? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > Hi Michael > > Fine! > > Popfly should work with Express versions as well: > > http://www.popfly.com/Overview/Explorer.aspx > > /gustav > > >>>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 14:37:09 >>> > I'm here. > Hoping that we can just use C# Express ... > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 08:29:09 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:29:09 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Message-ID: Hi Shamil et al Here (great site, bookmark that): http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express versions. The 2008 version can be found here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the Express versions. According to this: http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. Could someone please check this out? /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> Hi Shamil They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample solutions http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also qualify as development evnironment. From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 08:51:36 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:51:36 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: <5AAE300AFD7041F9B4A4F5870249E650@Mattys> Well, some of this day will be spent on -> Windows Update Express SP1 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Shamil et al > > Here (great site, bookmark that): > > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > versions. > The 2008 version can be found here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > Express versions. > According to this: > > http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > Could someone please check this out? > > /gustav > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > Hi Shamil > > They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > /gustav > > >>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > solutions > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > qualify as development evnironment. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Mar 2 12:57:55 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:57:55 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] Scrum and C# In-Reply-To: References: <49ABD90C.5010408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <7E130D3AB22F44638EC87381BFB47C8E@murphy3234aaf1> Doug will use VS2008 Professional. I have VS 2005 and can reinstall if required. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# Hi John, Let's switch to dba-VB (this message crossposted there). OK. Our task now is to find a way how to handle the context when we have different VS and C# Express version. We can handle that I think - there are several ways how to do that - please all teh team members write here what VS or Express version you plan to use: Gustav Mike John Doug Shamil - 1st. VS2005 Prof. as it's important for ReportViewer control and John doesn't have VS2008 Standard. 2nd - VS2008 Prof. if everybody manages to get somehow at least VS2008 Standard version. Once again it's desirable to have the same .NET development development tools but in our case we I think can rather flexibly hanlde the contex with us having diffrenet versions. IOW my choise above is my context not my proposal to eveybody to get one or another of the above versions. Still unclear here does VS2005 Stabdard or VS2008 Standard build well the sample projects I posted the link of yesterday http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip Mike I did get you have Express version only - we will find how to hadle that context. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:03:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > Shamil, > > Professional edition costs a fair amount. Given that I make no money > off of .Net (yet) I am unable to spend on it. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Well, we can try to get this project done with 2005 and 2008 versions of VS hopefully Standard and Prof. version would be both OK. > > > > The best of course would be to get VS2008 Prof. for everybody > > (Standard editions would also qualify if it compiles well test > > solutions and allow to design .NET Report Viewer reports - > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB)) > > > > If Standard Edition doesn't allow to edit .NET Report Viewer reports then those reports can be placed in classlib, and the team members with Prof. Editions will design reports, the other team members will design forms - that should be possible... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jwcolby > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > > solving > > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 00:05:48 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > > > >> The problem is that everyone needs to use the same environment. > >> The Express version's code won't run in VS and vice versa. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> > >> > >> William Hindman wrote: > >>> ...dl VS2008 Express for free instead ...you can't compile dlls or > >>> use add-ons with it but otherwise you should be able to > >>> contribute/participate without laying out a few hundred until > >>> you're certain its worthwhile for you. > >>> > >>> William > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------- > >>> From: "Mike Mattys" > >>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:37 PM > >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>> > >>>> I have neither. > >>>> I'll have to visit eBay > >>>> > >>>> - > >>>> Michael R Mattys > >>>> MapPoint and Database Dev > >>>> www.mattysconsulting.com > >>>> - > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Gustav Brock" > >>>> To: > >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:28 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> I have both VS2005 and VS2008 running, both in Standard version however. > >>>>> > >>>>> /gustav > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 01-03-2009 22:18:27 >>> > >>>>> Forwarded from Shamil who has some trouble with his AccessD mail account: > >>>>> > >>>>> *- > >>>>> > >>>>> Gustav and Mike do you have VS2005? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 13:11:00 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:11:00 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: <5AAE300AFD7041F9B4A4F5870249E650@Mattys> Message-ID: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: Error 1 The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace 'Microsoft' (are you missing an assembly reference?) C:\ ... nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 2 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 3 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 4 Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has been successfully built. 0 0 Warning 5 The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs 59 0 Warning 6 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. Warning 7 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be found. Doesn't look too serious! :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > Windows Update > Express SP1 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> Hi Shamil et al >> >> Here (great site, bookmark that): >> >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ >> >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express >> versions. >> The 2008 version can be found here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en >> >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the >> Express versions. >> According to this: >> >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx >> >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en >> >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. >> >> Could someone please check this out? >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> >> Hi Shamil >> >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> >> >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample >> solutions >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) >> >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also >> qualify as development evnironment. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 15:21:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:21:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> References: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team and everybody, My congratulation to the SCRUM team that we got 5 team members! I have made new versions of solutions and also MS SQL 2005 db model. Here are downloads: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip Here is the copy on another server: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnetdbs.zip You can find three solutions now: - one for VS2005; - another for VS2008; - third one targeted for C# 2008 Express but prepared with VS2008 Prof. (based on William words that C# 2008 Express can't compile classlibs I have just made small Winforms FE app and used classlibs compiled by VS2008 Prof). These "tricks" caused by different versions of VS we have. You can find that I moved placeholder forms and reports into classlibs to make projects configiration which will allow Mike to just develop a form in C# Express and use the forms and reports from classlibs we develop in full VS versions. I have also set references for ReportViewer control v.9 for VS2008 and C# Express 2008 targeted solutuons. Mike could you please test how they work now on your system? (Hope they will work OK, "fingers crossed"). Please Mike try to compile VS2008 targeted solution and C# 2008 targeted solution under C# 2008 Express. If the first will compile, build and run OK then classlibs with Forms and Reports could be merged back to FE. And having Express, Standard and Professioanl editions will not result in excessive manual synchronization work. Who can try to build VS2005 sample solution under VS 2005 Standard and/or VS2008 sample under VS2008 Standard edition to see they compile OK and thefore some of us can have Standard Editons and some of us can have Professional editions to work on this project? Compiled apps now have the following main executables. VS2005 or VS2008 Prof or Standard (maybe C# 2008 Express will work just find with VS2008 Prof. solution) ================================= NorthWind.NET.FE.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll C# 2008 Express (but compiled here under VS2008 Prof) ================= NorthWind.NET.FE.Express.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll - just classlib dll Guys, may I ask now you to decide which development environmnet to use - we seems to be moving to 2008 versions Express, Standard, Prof (Gustav, Mike, Doug, Shamil), but John has VS2005 version only and can't get 2008 version. What can we do? - I'd follow your decision - the issue with having 2005 and 2008 versions is that 2008 has some new C# language etc. features and therefore downgrading forms/reports developed in 2008 versions could be an issue - I have never tried to do that downgrade. Maybe you can try to test how it works and if it works well then we can safely (with a little additonal work) use both VS2005 and VS2008 versions. Of we all can use 2005 versions? Another issue with reports develped in 2008 versions - they expected to be quite different from 2005 versions (but 2005 versions could be upgraded to 2008 versions smoothly). Database model in the above download is a proposal - I have made some changes after upsizing tables. I didn't upsize any queries because most of them will be developed differently I expect. I have also added timestamp fields to all tables - almost never used them before, wanted to try to use them in this project - if you think they are not needed then we can remove it. Please note that SCRUMMaster role, which I have committed to for this project is not as a manager, mentor, director - this is a facilitator role IOW you as a team make the final decicions - I can participate in making such decisions because I have to share SCRUMMaster and developer roles in this project but my voice/vote shouldn't have any more "weight" that your votes/voices. To move steadily forward we have to make decisions every day - small, not time consuming - spending approx. 1 hour a working day for this project (for me it's not yet the case here for this project as I'm spending more time on it every day currently but that's OK for now. Hope you're not missing your main business working for this project...) ... Please be more active - if you wanted to do all the further preparatory work when we will start the project - let it be so - then we can start next week - it may take more time if we will not align/find a way how to work with different version of VS, how to share files etc. before we start actual development... I think decision on selecting of VS versions and that we can work and share sources with that selection should be done in advance - if it will not work OK we will not be able to make this project developed effectively... May I ask you to make decisions on: - VS versions you will use and how to solve some discrepancy if that will be 2005 and 2006 versions Express, Standard and Professional; - how we share/synchronize projects: current options: PopFly, MS Live SkyDrive, Google, (after all we can "synchronize" them by just exchanging source files)... We (you) will have to make some other decisions in preparation the project after the two above made/tested. I can participate in discussions but I'd prefer to be a kind of "lurker" for several days now because: - this is not SCRUMMaster responsibility to force the team to make decisions; - I have made quite some proposals already - it's your turn now :)... FYI: I have here an important deadline and I have to work intensively on another project for the next three-four days. Maybe we can/should shift the project start date for additonal week? - I can get back into active mode in the end of this week... For the next three-four days I will be able to spend only one-two hours max, for this project, and I wanted to install TargetProcess during this time and to give it to you to use in the beginning of the next week to define together ProductBacklog (features) and to plan the first SCRUM Sprint etc... Please ask questions if needed on VS versions and other issues and I will try to answer promptly... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:11:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December > Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) > Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > Error 1 > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > 'Microsoft' > (are you missing an assembly reference?) > C:\ ... > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 2 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 3 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 4 > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please > make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this > type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has > been successfully built. 0 0 > > Warning 5 > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > 59 0 > > Warning 6 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > Warning 7 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be > found. > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > > Windows Update > > Express SP1 > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > >> > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > >> > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > >> > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > >> versions. > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > >> > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > >> Express versions. > >> According to this: > >> > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > >> > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > >> > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > >> > >> Could someone please check this out? > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > >> Hi Shamil > >> > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > >> > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > >> solutions > >> > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > >> > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > >> qualify as development evnironment. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 15:28:42 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:28:42 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Message-ID: Hi Michael That is because Shamil has referenced the 2005 ReportViewer and not the 2008 (version 9.0.0.0). You can install that as well (that is what I have, that's why I didn't see any errors) but I think you should await a comment from Shamil. /gustav >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 20:11 >>> I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: Error 1 The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace 'Microsoft' (are you missing an assembly reference?) C:\ ... nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 2 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 3 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 4 Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has been successfully built. 0 0 Warning 5 The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs 59 0 Warning 6 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. Warning 7 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be found. Doesn't look too serious! :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > Windows Update > Express SP1 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> Hi Shamil et al >> >> Here (great site, bookmark that): >> >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ >> >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express >> versions. >> The 2008 version can be found here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en >> >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the >> Express versions. >> According to this: >> >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx >> >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en >> >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. >> >> Could someone please check this out? >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> >> Hi Shamil >> >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> >> >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample >> solutions >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) >> >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also >> qualify as development evnironment. >> From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 15:31:41 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:31:41 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Here (great site, bookmark that): > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ Yes, Gustav, I used it as one of the main sources while developing .NET ReportViewer Control reports. > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > Could someone please check this out? Mike? Could you please test? Do you need for that testing very simple project with just one placeholder WinForm and .NET ReportViewer control placeholder report - I can make it in VS2008 Prof. BTW, you can make such simple report by combining several sources from sample projects I have posted here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip with copy here: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:29:09 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Shamil et al > > Here (great site, bookmark that): > > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express versions. > The 2008 version can be found here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the Express versions. > According to this: > > http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > Could someone please check this out? > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > Hi Shamil > > They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample solutions > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also qualify as development evnironment. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:00:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:00:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, Yes, Gustav, I commented on that issue in my previous message and I posted links on new projects with 2008 versions referencing 2008 ReporViewer control I beleive. Maybe I'm pushing to go too quickly? Let's slow down - add another week (or more) for infrastructure preparation? Here is the link for a very simple VS2008 Prof. solution with one form and embedded reporViewer control (2008 version (9) I believe): http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/sse2008.zip and copy here: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/sse2008.zip They are prepared and compiled under VS2008. Gustav, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? If in both cases build, compile and run will be OK then we're almost done with defining how to handle VS versions differences. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:28:42 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Michael > > That is because Shamil has referenced the 2005 ReportViewer and not the 2008 (version 9.0.0.0). > > You can install that as well (that is what I have, that's why I didn't see any errors) but I think you should await a comment from Shamil. > > /gustav > > >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 20:11 >>> > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December > Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) > Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > Error 1 > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > 'Microsoft' > (are you missing an assembly reference?) > C:\ ... > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 2 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 3 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 4 > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please > make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this > type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has > been successfully built. 0 0 > > Warning 5 > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > 59 0 > > Warning 6 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > Warning 7 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be > found. > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > > Windows Update > > Express SP1 > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > >> > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > >> > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > >> > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > >> versions. > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > >> > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > >> Express versions. > >> According to this: > >> > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > >> > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > >> > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > >> > >> Could someone please check this out? > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > >> Hi Shamil > >> > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > >> > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > >> solutions > >> > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > >> > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > >> qualify as development evnironment. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:04:43 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:04:43 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <<< Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? >>> Sorry, Mike, I wanted to ask you to test this sample project compiling, building and running it under C# 2008 Express. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:00:03 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi All, > > Yes, Gustav, I commented on that issue in my previous message and I posted links on new projects with 2008 versions referencing 2008 ReporViewer control I beleive. > > Maybe I'm pushing to go too quickly? > Let's slow down - add another week (or more) for infrastructure preparation? > > Here is the link for a very simple VS2008 Prof. solution with one form and embedded reporViewer control (2008 version (9) I believe): > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/sse2008.zip > > and copy here: > > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/sse2008.zip > > They are prepared and compiled under VS2008. > > Gustav, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? > > Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? > > If in both cases build, compile and run will be OK then we're almost done with defining how to handle VS versions differences. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:28:42 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > Hi Michael > > > > That is because Shamil has referenced the 2005 ReportViewer and not the 2008 (version 9.0.0.0). > > > > You can install that as well (that is what I have, that's why I didn't see any errors) but I think you should await a comment from Shamil. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 20:11 >>> > > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December > > Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) > > Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > > Error 1 > > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > > 'Microsoft' > > (are you missing an assembly reference?) > > C:\ ... > > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > > [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > > > Warning 2 > > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > > > Warning 3 > > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > > > Warning 4 > > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please > > make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this > > type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has > > been successfully built. 0 0 > > > > Warning 5 > > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > > 59 0 > > > > Warning 6 > > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > > > Warning 7 > > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be > > found. > > > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > > > Windows Update > > > Express SP1 > > > > > > - > > > Michael R Mattys > > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > - > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > > >> > > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > > >> > > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > >> > > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > > >> versions. > > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > > >> > > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > >> > > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > > >> Express versions. > > >> According to this: > > >> > > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > >> > > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > >> > > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > >> > > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > >> > > >> Could someone please check this out? > > >> > > >> /gustav > > >> > > >> > > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > > >> Hi Shamil > > >> > > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > > >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > > >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > >> > > >> /gustav > > >> > > >> > > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > >> > > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > > >> solutions > > >> > > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > >> > > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > > >> qualify as development evnironment. > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 16:20:53 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:20:53 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. Still have errors. Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week or a month. This is my first jump. Let's just do it. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > <<< > Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? >>>> > Sorry, Mike, I wanted to ask you to test this sample project compiling, > building and running it under C# 2008 Express. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 16:27:16 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:27:16 -0000 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> >> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week or a month. Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. Who you gonna call! Max -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. Still have errors. Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week or a month. This is my first jump. Let's just do it. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 16:30:24 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:30:24 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <60998F538CBB42B7BABEF1E44D5F60F3@Mattys> Denis Sherman? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design >>> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > or a month. > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > Who you gonna call! > > > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > programming issues. > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 16:33:50 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:33:50 -0000 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: <60998F538CBB42B7BABEF1E44D5F60F3@Mattys> References: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> <60998F538CBB42B7BABEF1E44D5F60F3@Mattys> Message-ID: <49ac5ecd.0aa5660a.21de.ffff9608@mx.google.com> No, Ghost Busters! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys Sent: 02 March 2009 22:30 To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Denis Sherman? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design >>> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > or a month. > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > Who you gonna call! > > > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > programming issues. > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:34:57 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:34:57 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> References: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> Message-ID: :) -----Original Message----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:27:16 -0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > >> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > or a month. > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > Who you gonna call! > > > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > programming issues. > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 16:37:38 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:37:38 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: When I say I have errors, I mean when I press the Print Sales Report [Sales By Category] button. I used the exe also and got the same error. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:04 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> >> <<< >> Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 >> Standard? >>>>> >> Sorry, Mike, I wanted to ask you to test this sample project compiling, >> building and running it under C# 2008 Express. >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:59:44 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:59:44 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, I have to go to bed - it's 1:50a.m. here and tomorrow at around 7:30a.m. I have to drive my son to school: Let's me summarize current status of development tools of team members: - Gustav - VS2008 Standard - compiles OK VS2008 Prof. solutions with Report Viewer Control, can edit .rdlc reports in desigh mode - Doug - VS2008 Prof - OK; - Mike - C# 2008 Express Edition - still unclear is that version ready to be used to design reports but it should be ready to design forms - so probably we can have Mike designing forms and testing. - John - VS2005 Standard - no yet feedback how well this version compiles sample solution prepared using VS2005 Prof. John could you please test that by downloading samples from: this link http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip or this link http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip ? - Shamil - VS2005 Prof or VS2008 Prof. - both OK. ==== Does everybody have MS SQL 2005 Express or MS SQL 2005. MS SQL 2008 should be OK also. I have both MS SQL 2005 Express and Prof. versions - the backup I posted here http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip can be used with any of them. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:34:57 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:27:16 -0000 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > >> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > > or a month. > > > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > > Who you gonna call! > > > > > > > > Max > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > > programming issues. > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > > Still have errors. > > > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > > whether you give me a week or a month. > > > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 2 17:16:12 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:16:12 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:32 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Here (great site, bookmark that): > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ Yes, Gustav, I used it as one of the main sources while developing .NET ReportViewer Control reports. > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > Could someone please check this out? Mike? Could you please test? Do you need for that testing very simple project with just one placeholder WinForm and .NET ReportViewer control placeholder report - I can make it in VS2008 Prof. BTW, you can make such simple report by combining several sources from sample projects I have posted here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip with copy here: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:29:09 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Shamil et al > > Here (great site, bookmark that): > > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express versions. > The 2008 version can be found here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5 > -4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the Express versions. > According to this: > > http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-vi > ewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206 > -4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > Could someone please check this out? > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > Hi Shamil > > They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following > sample solutions > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also qualify as development evnironment. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 17:42:03 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:42:03 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> Thanks, Charlotte. I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) > to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express > versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support > add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. > > Charlotte Foust From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 20:04:18 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:04:18 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> Message-ID: VS2008 Pro w/MSDN ordered and overnighted. Still room on my belt to tighten ... if need be. :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Thanks, Charlotte. > I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlotte Foust" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) >> to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express >> versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support >> add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. >> >> Charlotte Foust > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Mar 2 21:11:33 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 19:11:33 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: References: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> Message-ID: <15AAAB37E3FF434C851C0A0F579EF3E8@murphy3234aaf1> I downloaded the files and the VS2008 version built fine. Is the Northwind database the regular Northwind file from Microsoft? If so I already have it installed for SQL Server 2005. Thank you all for allowing me to participate. This will be a learning experience for me. My recent coding background is VBA and VB.Net. C# seems readable but I have never built anything in it. Doug -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:22 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Hi SCRUM team and everybody, My congratulation to the SCRUM team that we got 5 team members! I have made new versions of solutions and also MS SQL 2005 db model. Here are downloads: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip Here is the copy on another server: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnetdbs.zip You can find three solutions now: - one for VS2005; - another for VS2008; - third one targeted for C# 2008 Express but prepared with VS2008 Prof. (based on William words that C# 2008 Express can't compile classlibs I have just made small Winforms FE app and used classlibs compiled by VS2008 Prof). These "tricks" caused by different versions of VS we have. You can find that I moved placeholder forms and reports into classlibs to make projects configiration which will allow Mike to just develop a form in C# Express and use the forms and reports from classlibs we develop in full VS versions. I have also set references for ReportViewer control v.9 for VS2008 and C# Express 2008 targeted solutuons. Mike could you please test how they work now on your system? (Hope they will work OK, "fingers crossed"). Please Mike try to compile VS2008 targeted solution and C# 2008 targeted solution under C# 2008 Express. If the first will compile, build and run OK then classlibs with Forms and Reports could be merged back to FE. And having Express, Standard and Professioanl editions will not result in excessive manual synchronization work. Who can try to build VS2005 sample solution under VS 2005 Standard and/or VS2008 sample under VS2008 Standard edition to see they compile OK and thefore some of us can have Standard Editons and some of us can have Professional editions to work on this project? Compiled apps now have the following main executables. VS2005 or VS2008 Prof or Standard (maybe C# 2008 Express will work just find with VS2008 Prof. solution) ================================= NorthWind.NET.FE.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll C# 2008 Express (but compiled here under VS2008 Prof) ================= NorthWind.NET.FE.Express.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll - just classlib dll Guys, may I ask now you to decide which development environmnet to use - we seems to be moving to 2008 versions Express, Standard, Prof (Gustav, Mike, Doug, Shamil), but John has VS2005 version only and can't get 2008 version. What can we do? - I'd follow your decision - the issue with having 2005 and 2008 versions is that 2008 has some new C# language etc. features and therefore downgrading forms/reports developed in 2008 versions could be an issue - I have never tried to do that downgrade. Maybe you can try to test how it works and if it works well then we can safely (with a little additonal work) use both VS2005 and VS2008 versions. Of we all can use 2005 versions? Another issue with reports develped in 2008 versions - they expected to be quite different from 2005 versions (but 2005 versions could be upgraded to 2008 versions smoothly). Database model in the above download is a proposal - I have made some changes after upsizing tables. I didn't upsize any queries because most of them will be developed differently I expect. I have also added timestamp fields to all tables - almost never used them before, wanted to try to use them in this project - if you think they are not needed then we can remove it. Please note that SCRUMMaster role, which I have committed to for this project is not as a manager, mentor, director - this is a facilitator role IOW you as a team make the final decicions - I can participate in making such decisions because I have to share SCRUMMaster and developer roles in this project but my voice/vote shouldn't have any more "weight" that your votes/voices. To move steadily forward we have to make decisions every day - small, not time consuming - spending approx. 1 hour a working day for this project (for me it's not yet the case here for this project as I'm spending more time on it every day currently but that's OK for now. Hope you're not missing your main business working for this project...) ... Please be more active - if you wanted to do all the further preparatory work when we will start the project - let it be so - then we can start next week - it may take more time if we will not align/find a way how to work with different version of VS, how to share files etc. before we start actual development... I think decision on selecting of VS versions and that we can work and share sources with that selection should be done in advance - if it will not work OK we will not be able to make this project developed effectively... May I ask you to make decisions on: - VS versions you will use and how to solve some discrepancy if that will be 2005 and 2006 versions Express, Standard and Professional; - how we share/synchronize projects: current options: PopFly, MS Live SkyDrive, Google, (after all we can "synchronize" them by just exchanging source files)... We (you) will have to make some other decisions in preparation the project after the two above made/tested. I can participate in discussions but I'd prefer to be a kind of "lurker" for several days now because: - this is not SCRUMMaster responsibility to force the team to make decisions; - I have made quite some proposals already - it's your turn now :)... FYI: I have here an important deadline and I have to work intensively on another project for the next three-four days. Maybe we can/should shift the project start date for additonal week? - I can get back into active mode in the end of this week... For the next three-four days I will be able to spend only one-two hours max, for this project, and I wanted to install TargetProcess during this time and to give it to you to use in the beginning of the next week to define together ProductBacklog (features) and to plan the first SCRUM Sprint etc... Please ask questions if needed on VS versions and other issues and I will try to answer promptly... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:11:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December Also > installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) Continued > installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > Error 1 > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > 'Microsoft' > (are you missing an assembly reference?) C:\ ... > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryRep > ort.Designer.cs [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 2 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly > exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may > get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 3 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly > exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may > get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 4 > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. > Please make sure that the assembly that contains this type is > referenced. If this type is a part of your development project, make > sure that the project has been successfully built. 0 0 > > Warning 5 > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCatego > ryReport.Designer.cs > 59 0 > > Warning 6 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > Warning 7 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not > be found. > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> Windows Update Express > > SP1 > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > >> > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > >> > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > >> > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the > >> Express versions. > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-6 > >> 1E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > >> > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in > >> the Express versions. > >> According to this: > >> > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report > >> -viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > >> > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c > >> 206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > >> > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > >> > >> Could someone please check this out? > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > >> Hi Shamil > >> > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is > >> running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and > >> reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > >> > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following > >> sample solutions > >> > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > >> > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > >> qualify as development evnironment. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 00:18:32 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:18:32 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> References: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> Message-ID: Chercher la femme! :) (And you'll get convinced/inspired to get VS2008 Prof. I mean :)) Thank you, Charlotte. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:42:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Thanks, Charlotte. > I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlotte Foust" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) > > to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express > > versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support > > add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 01:10:18 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:10:18 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Mike! > Still room on my belt to tighten ... if need be. :) The same here :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:04:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > VS2008 Pro w/MSDN ordered and overnighted. > Still room on my belt to tighten ... if need be. :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:42 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Thanks, Charlotte. > > I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Charlotte Foust" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > > Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) > >> to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express > >> versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support > >> add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. > >> > >> Charlotte Foust > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 01:36:42 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:36:42 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) Doug: VS2008 Prof. John: VS2005 Standard Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. ==== Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? Any thoughts on that issue? Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 3 03:34:20 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John using the free Express edition no matter what. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> Hi Gustav at all, If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh the list of links to visit etc. Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). No, we do not need Add-ins I think. If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express solutiuon. I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed on the same PC? I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip (copy http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) The above archives have: - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 Report Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be fine for. > Could you explain that please? > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those capable of that? > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > Hi All, > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: VS2005 Standard > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > ==== > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 04:09:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:09:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav at all, OK. We have somebody to test soltuion for C# 2008 Express - the ones I posted here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip then we can see what arhcitecture the sample project shoudl have to let John cooperate having just C# 2008 Express. Maybe there is somewhere VMWare VM with Windows XP (or other WIndows OS) and C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express - then I can use such VM here over weekend to test. We probably need one more week for preparation of John's environmnet to fit the other team members? John? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> > > Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John using the free Express edition no matter what. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> > > Hi Gustav at all, > > If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh the list of links to visit etc. > Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). > > No, we do not need Add-ins I think. > > If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express solutiuon. > > I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? > > Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed on the same PC? > > I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. > > For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > (copy > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) > > The above archives have: > > - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; > > - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 Report > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi Shamil > > > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be fine for. > > Could you explain that please? > > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those capable of that? > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > > Hi All, > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > John: VS2005 Standard > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > ==== > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 09:07:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:07:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, I have got VMMare Server running on my Vista Ultimate PC with one WinXP Sp2 VM. The issue is that Vista doesn't see this XP VM, and XP VM doesn't see the Vista host/outer world. Do you have any info how to tune WMWare Server network settings (using "Manage Virual Networks" feature?) to get it visible from Vista host and vice versa? I have also got downloaded "All-in-one-CD" for All 2008 Express Editions, and I have got ReportViewer 2008 Control redistrubutables. If nobody will have ready to use C# 2008 Express environment to test these samples: > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip then I will try to test them over weekend installing C# 2008 Express on WinXP VM to see what architecture our project should have to have a team member with only C# 2008 Express working with us having VS2008 Standard or Prof. editions. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:09:12 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi Gustav at all, > > OK. > > We have somebody to test soltuion for C# 2008 Express - the ones I posted here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > then we can see what arhcitecture the sample project shoudl have to let John cooperate having just C# 2008 Express. > > Maybe there is somewhere VMWare VM with Windows XP (or other WIndows OS) and C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express - then I can use such VM here over weekend to test. > > We probably need one more week for preparation of John's environmnet to fit the other team members? > > John? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi Shamil > > > > < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> > > > > Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John using the free Express edition no matter what. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> > > > > Hi Gustav at all, > > > > If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh the list of links to visit etc. > > Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). > > > > No, we do not need Add-ins I think. > > > > If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express solutiuon. > > > > I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? > > > > Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed on the same PC? > > > > I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. > > > > For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): > > > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > (copy > > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) > > > > The above archives have: > > > > - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; > > > > - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 Report > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Hi Shamil > > > > > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > > > > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be fine for. > > > Could you explain that please? > > > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those capable of that? > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > > John: VS2005 Standard > > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > > ==== > > > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? > > > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 10:28:40 2009 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:28:40 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shamil, Generally the network errors may be due to the settings in your VM for the nic card. The settings are to set the nic as Bridged, NAT or Host-Only. Setting as Bridge makes the VM act like a standalone pc where you can communicate from your host to the guest and the guest back to the host as if each was it's own hardware pc. Setting it as NAT, then you have essentially a firewall on the guest pc and you can't reach it from the host you can only go from guest to host. Host-Only is a nice feature in that the guest pc can only talk to the host. The host pc will be able to work as normal, and will also have access to the guest pc via the network. my typical settings are to setup vm workstations as bridged. btw, I was reading through this thread and while I am not familiar enough with C# I'd like to observe the project as I know I'd learn a great deal from it. I do have VS2008 std. -Francisco http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... 2009/3/3 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Hi Gustav at all, > > OK. > > We have somebody to test soltuion for C# 2008 Express - the ones I posted > here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > then we can see what arhcitecture the sample project shoudl have to let > John cooperate having just C# 2008 Express. > > Maybe there is somewhere VMWare VM with Windows XP (or other WIndows OS) > and C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express - then I can use such VM here over > weekend to test. > > We probably need one more week for preparation of John's environmnet to fit > the other team members? > > John? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > - Show quoted text - > To: > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi Shamil > > > > < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> > > > > Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to > qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send > from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John > using the free Express edition no matter what. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> > > > > Hi Gustav at all, > > > > If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that > would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one > hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh > the list of links to visit etc. > > Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? > (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). > > > > No, we do not need Add-ins I think. > > > > If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we > can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll > and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express > solutiuon. > > > > I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? > > > > Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express > plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed > on the same PC? > > > > I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib > with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. > > > > For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some > fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): > > > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > (copy > > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) > > > > The above archives have: > > > > - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one > of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; > > > > - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 > Report > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Hi Shamil > > > > > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the > developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > > > > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really > is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be > fine for. > > > Could you explain that please? > > > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those > capable of that? > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > > John: VS2005 Standard > > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > > ==== > > > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 > Standard? > > > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If > more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 3 11:10:06 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:10:06 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: The version I purchased is product UEH-00006 If necessary, I could upgrade with some help. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:36 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi All, > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: VS2005 Standard > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > ==== > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 > Standard? > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more > can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From paul.hartland at googlemail.com Wed Mar 4 04:04:54 2009 From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:04:54 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic Message-ID: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> To all, Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : usp_MyStoredProcedure ( @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), @dtiJobDate [datetime], @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) ) AS BEGIN DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT UPDATE dbo.MyTable SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND ( @nvcCode = 'A' OR @nvcCode = 'N' ) AND ( AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR AvailabilityCode= 'N' ) SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, @nvcPayroll SELECT * FROM MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll END If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I have a simple piece of VB code as below: Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then DE.Conn.Open Endif Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") msgbox rs.fields(0) DE.Conn.Close ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding to the requested name or ordinal. However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT statement it returns the resultset. Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. Thanks in advance for any help on this.... -- Paul Hartland paul.hartland at googlemail.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 04:39:47 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 13:39:47 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?Q2FuJ3QgR2V0IFNlbGVjdCBSZXN1bHRzIEluIFZpc3Vh?= =?koi8-r?b?bCBCYXNpYw==?= In-Reply-To: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, Try to put SET NOCOUNT ON before DECLARE statement. HTH -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hartland To: Access List ,VisualBasicList ,SQLServerList Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:04:54 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic > To all, > > Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the > following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : > > usp_MyStoredProcedure > ( > @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), > @dtiJobDate [datetime], > @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) > ) > AS > BEGIN > DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT > UPDATE dbo.MyTable > SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode > WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND > JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND > ( > @nvcCode = 'A' OR > @nvcCode = 'N' > ) AND > ( > AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR > AvailabilityCode= 'N' > ) > > SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT > DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) > SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, > @nvcPayroll > SELECT * > FROM MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > END > > If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM > MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I have > a simple piece of VB code as below: > > Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset > If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then > DE.Conn.Open > Endif > Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & > format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") > msgbox rs.fields(0) > > DE.Conn.Close > > ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server > > The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding to > the requested name or ordinal. > > However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT > statement it returns the resultset. > > Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. > > Thanks in advance for any help on this.... > > > > > > > -- > Paul Hartland > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 4 04:50:17 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:50:17 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic In-Reply-To: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AEE989.16930.1A61897@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've run into very similar problems trying to use conditional execution and multiple selects in a SP called through ODBC (in my case using the SQLTools ODBC library with PowerBasic). It appears to be a limitation of the ODBC/ADODB drivers. In the end I had to split the one SP which worked fine in SQL Server into several separate calls to simple SPs and handle the conditional stuff in my PB code between calls. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but I suspect you may have to end up doing the same. -- Stuart On 4 Mar 2009 at 10:04, Paul Hartland wrote: > To all, > > Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the > following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : > > usp_MyStoredProcedure > ( > @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), > @dtiJobDate [datetime], > @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) > ) > AS > BEGIN > DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT > UPDATE dbo.MyTable > SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode > WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND > JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND > ( > @nvcCode = 'A' OR > @nvcCode = 'N' > ) AND > ( > AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR > AvailabilityCode= 'N' > ) > > SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT > DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) > SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, > @nvcPayroll > SELECT * > FROM MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > END > > If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM > MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I have > a simple piece of VB code as below: > > Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset > If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then > DE.Conn.Open > Endif > Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & > format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") > msgbox rs.fields(0) > > DE.Conn.Close > > ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server > > The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding to > the requested name or ordinal. > > However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT > statement it returns the resultset. > > Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. > > Thanks in advance for any help on this.... > > > > > > > -- > Paul Hartland > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at googlemail.com Wed Mar 4 04:56:29 2009 From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:56:29 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic In-Reply-To: References: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <38c884770903040256w607637bbhb05cbd7f0d7d5ff8@mail.gmail.com> DOH, Thank you very much for ending my nightmare, can't believe I missed that. Paul 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Hi Paul, > > Try to put > > SET NOCOUNT ON > > before DECLARE > > statement. > > HTH > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Hartland > To: Access List ,VisualBasicList < > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>,SQLServerList < > dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:04:54 +0000 > Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic > > > To all, > > > > Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the > > following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : > > > > usp_MyStoredProcedure > > ( > > @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), > > @dtiJobDate [datetime], > > @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) > > ) > > AS > > BEGIN > > DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT > > UPDATE dbo.MyTable > > SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode > > WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND > > JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND > > ( > > @nvcCode = 'A' OR > > @nvcCode = 'N' > > ) AND > > ( > > AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR > > AvailabilityCode= 'N' > > ) > > > > SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT > > DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 > > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > > INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) > > SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, > > @nvcPayroll > > SELECT * > > FROM MyTable2 > > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > > END > > > > If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM > > MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I > have > > a simple piece of VB code as below: > > > > Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset > > If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then > > DE.Conn.Open > > Endif > > Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & > > format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") > > msgbox rs.fields(0) > > > > DE.Conn.Close > > > > ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server > > > > The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding > to > > the requested name or ordinal. > > > > However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT > > statement it returns the resultset. > > > > Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. > > > > Thanks in advance for any help on this.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Paul Hartland > > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Paul Hartland paul.hartland at googlemail.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 4 16:34:45 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:34:45 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: <62B0851A80E642D0923A2365152D591C@Mattys> Hi Shamil, I am installing 'as we speak.' I can use the extra week because I just got a good size project. Thank you also! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Mike Mattys" Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:25 PM Subject: Re[2]: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Please see first my previous message concerning C# Express 2008 tests. > Based on that tests' results our team can now use 2008 versions: > > C# 2008 Express, VS2008 Standard and VS 2008 Prof: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: C# 2008 Express > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. > > Please approve that. > > Thank you Mike for your purchasing of VS2008 Prof. > Thank you all for your help with testing sample projects. > > I must say I spent quite some time during this week to prepare different > configurations or test projects, to make VMWAre installation on Vista > Ultimate, to download and burn setup disks, to run setups and compile, > build and run tests. > > That was a long way to get the current good result. > Witt nowaday knowledge I'd go shorter way, namely: > > - make very simple VS2008 Winforms project with placeholder sample > ReportViewer control report; > - install VMWare Player 2.x on Vista or better just use VMWare Server > installed on my another development PC; > - download "All-in-One" Express CD and ReportViewer Control > Redistributables SP1; > - install C# 2008 Express and ReportViewer Redist. on Win XP SP2 VM; > - copy simple sample project to VM and test it to see that it works OK; > > --- > That shorter way would have saved me a couple+ of working days. > --- > Lessons learned. Some other byside results achieved during the above > tests. > --- > We can start working on project now when Mike will get hist VS2008 Prof,. > will install it and play with it a little, and when John will get C# 2008 > Express installed. > --- > I'd propose now to shift project start for one week to 16th of March. The > reason for me is that I have spent quite some time on this work during > thsi week, and I have urgent project to work on very intensively. > The reason for Mike and John could be to adpat a little bit to VS 2008 > Prof and C# 2008 Express. > I'd also need to setup TargetProcess - and that isn't straightforward as > this shoudl be manual installation first tested on local PC and then > deployed on my ASP.NET hosting. I wanted also to make some > setup/adjustmentd on SCRUM at Extreme web site. > And we also have to find a way how to share/synchronize our source code: > Coudl you please look at - http://www.gladinet.com/ - I have it installed > here and it allows to use MS Live SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer, > the same coudl be done for Google Docs and some other (Free) Internet > Storage providers... > Even with shifted project start date we can discuss during the next week > how to organize the source code within the solution, and the related > issues... > > Please post your thoughts/proposals here. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:10:06 -0500 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > >> The version I purchased is product UEH-00006 >> If necessary, I could upgrade with some help. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning >> Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:36 AM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have >> >> >> > Hi All, >> > >> > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: >> > >> > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard >> > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) >> > Doug: VS2008 Prof. >> > John: VS2005 Standard >> > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. >> > ==== >> > >> > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 >> > Standard? >> > >> > Any thoughts on that issue? >> > >> > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If >> > more >> > can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 16:45:06 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 01:45:06 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent form/report as grids/tables. The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period of time than the other "ligher" ones... This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of Product Backlog Entries. Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent as possible. Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by time and space? Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the below BackLog if you see some issues with it. N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole responsibility of ProductOwner.... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Product Backlog Forms ==== 1. Categories 2. Customer Labels Dialog 3. Customer Orders 4. Customer Orders Subform1 5. Customer Orders Subform2 6. Customer Phone List 7. Customers 8. Employees 9. Main Switchboard 10. Orders 11. Orders Subform 12. Product List 13. Products 14. Quarterly Orders 15. Quarterly Orders Subform 16. Sales Analysis 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 19. Sales by Year Dialog 20. Sales Reports Dialog 21. Startup 22. Suppliers Reports ===== 1. Alphabetical List of Products 2. Catalog 3. Catalog Subreport 4. Customer Labels 5. Employee Sales by Country 6. Invoice 7. Products by Category 8. Sales by Category 9. Sales by Category Subreport 10. Sales by Year 11. Sales by Year Subreport 12. Sales Totals by Amount 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter 14. Summary of Sales by Year From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 17:35:13 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:35:13 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?IFJlWzJdOiBTY3J1bSAmIEMjIC0gVlMgdmVyc2lvbnMg?= =?koi8-r?b?d2UgaGF2ZQ==?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Today I have tested C# 2008 Express with VS2008 Prof. solution, which you have got downloaded from http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip that was the solution named NorthWind.NET.VS2008 - usual VS2008 solution with WinForms FE project, console project and several class library projects. One of the classlibs has also ReportViewer control and .rdlc placeholder report. That solutuon wascompiled, built and run OK. I have done C# 2008 Express installation from "All-in-One" Express CD freely available on MS site http://www.microsoft.com/express/download/offline.aspx I have also installed Microsoft Report Viewer Redistributable 2005 Service Pack 1 http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=82833F27-081D-4B72-83EF-2836360A904D&displaylang=en The above installations were done of a Win XP2 SP2 without .NET Framework. Recap: 1) C# 2008 Express compiles, builds and runs well VS2008 Prof. Solutions with several source projects and source class libraries http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express1.jpg 2) C# 2008 Express does need additionally MS Report Viewer Redistributable Service Pack 1 installation to run ReportViewer control reports http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express2.jpg 3) C# 2008 setup installs quite some other prerequisites http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express.jpg BUT 4) C# 2008 Express *does not* have design mode for ReportView Control reports - .rdlc files - they have to be edited manually as text(XML) files within solution. 5) C# Express doesn't have debug/release modes but still code can be debugged ===================== Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:10:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > The version I purchased is product UEH-00006 > If necessary, I could upgrade with some help. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:36 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > Hi All, > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > John: VS2005 Standard > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > ==== > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 > > Standard? > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more > > can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 17:36:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:36:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Please see first my previous message concerning C# Express 2008 tests. Based on that tests' results our team can now use 2008 versions: C# 2008 Express, VS2008 Standard and VS 2008 Prof: Gustav: VS2008 Standard Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) Doug: VS2008 Prof. John: C# 2008 Express Shamil: VS2008 Prof. Please approve that. Thank you Mike for your purchasing of VS2008 Prof. Thank you all for your help with testing sample projects. I must say I spent quite some time during this week to prepare different configurations or test projects, to make VMWAre installation on Vista Ultimate, to download and burn setup disks, to run setups and compile, build and run tests. That was a long way to get the current good result. Witt nowaday knowledge I'd go shorter way, namely: - make very simple VS2008 Winforms project with placeholder sample ReportViewer control report; - install VMWare Player 2.x on Vista or better just use VMWare Server installed on my another development PC; - download "All-in-One" Express CD and ReportViewer Control Redistributables SP1; - install C# 2008 Express and ReportViewer Redist. on Win XP SP2 VM; - copy simple sample project to VM and test it to see that it works OK; --- That shorter way would have saved me a couple+ of working days. --- Lessons learned. Some other byside results achieved during the above tests. --- We can start working on project now when Mike will get hist VS2008 Prof,. will install it and play with it a little, and when John will get C# 2008 Express installed. --- I'd propose now to shift project start for one week to 16th of March. The reason for me is that I have spent quite some time on this work during thsi week, and I have urgent project to work on very intensively. The reason for Mike and John could be to adpat a little bit to VS 2008 Prof and C# 2008 Express. I'd also need to setup TargetProcess - and that isn't straightforward as this shoudl be manual installation first tested on local PC and then deployed on my ASP.NET hosting. I wanted also to make some setup/adjustmentd on SCRUM at Extreme web site. And we also have to find a way how to share/synchronize our source code: Coudl you please look at - http://www.gladinet.com/ - I have it installed here and it allows to use MS Live SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer, the same coudl be done for Google Docs and some other (Free) Internet Storage providers... Even with shifted project start date we can discuss during the next week how to organize the source code within the solution, and the related issues... Please post your thoughts/proposals here. Thank you. -- Shamil From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 4 20:28:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:28:58 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: <62B0851A80E642D0923A2365152D591C@Mattys> Message-ID: <0457C88B5BCA4FA588E242678DF59EC8@Mattys> Ha! Figures. I get VS2008 installed, go out and return from dinner ... Upon starting the program, I'm taken immediately to 10-4 Episode 2: Welcome to Visual Studio 2010 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" Cc: "dba-VB" Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil, > > I am installing 'as we speak.' > I can use the extra week because I just got a good size project. > Thank you also! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 00:10:53 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 09:10:53 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Francesco, Thank you for your replay. The following is just for information. I have got installed VMWare Player v.2.x I managed VM to see outer world (local LAN PCs) and the Internet. But VM still can't access Vista's shares, and Vista's shares *are* accessable from other PCs in the LAN. Vista host can't access guest VM's shares but those shares *are* accessable from other PCs in the LAN. VMWare Player doesn't seem to have any tools to tune VM Network configuration. I have checked Vista's firewall - it allow VMWare player to access host. I currently decided to leave it as it's - I have posted a message in VMWare community with the question how to tune VMWare Player for its guest VM to see the host shares. No definitive advises yet. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Francisco Tapia To: Salakhetdinov Shamil Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:38:59 -0800 Subject: Re: Re[2]: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Shamil, I was referring to the nic configurations within the VM workstation > application. you should see under the settings for the VM the different > types of NICs you can use. the VM Network Configuration utility is more for > fine tuning things like IP ranges or adding additional nics that you want to > behave in a different way... my case I have a wifi and a LAN nic. so I have > my wifi be the bridge nic and the WIFI be the NAT, it's the way I chose to > configure it but you can do so any which way you want. > > > -Francisco > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > > 2009/3/3 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > > > Hi Francisco, > > > > You're welcome to observe the project progress! > > > > Thank for your information on VMWare. > > It should be easy to fix I guess but I must say it's not clear yet here how > > to do that: > > > > Maybe from the following info from my "VMWare Manager Virtual Networks" > > form > > you can just point me what should be changed? (I must say I didn't read the > > VMWare docs): > > > > > > ===================================== > > [Summary] > > VMNet0 (Bridged) - Bridged to an automatically chosen Adapter - > > 255.255.255.255 > > VMNet1(Host-Only) - A private network shared with the host - 192.168.116.0 > > - Enabled > > VMNet8 (NAT) - Used to share the host's IP Address - 192.168.119.0 - > > Enabled > > > > [Automatic Bridging] > > [x] Automatically choose an available physical netwrok adapter to bridge to > > VMNet0 > > > > Excluded Adapters (Do not attempt to Bridge to teh following adapters) > > - Interl(R) Pro/Wireless... > > - Broadcom 440x 10/100 Integrated Controler > > - Blutooth Device (Personal Area Network) > > > > ? Maybe exclude some of them - I do use only wireless adapter to > > communicate with my LAN > > > > [Host Virtual Network Mapping] > > VMnet0 - Bridged to an automatically choses adapter > > VMnet1 - VMWare Network Adapter VMnet1 > > VMnet8 - VMWare Network Adapter VMnet8 > > > > [Host Virtual Adapters] > > VMWare Network Adapter VMNet1 - VMNet1 - Enabled > > VMWare Network Adapter VMNet8 - VMNet8 - Enabled > > > > [DHCP] > > VMNet1 - 192.168.116.0 - 255.255.255.0 - vmnet1 > > VMNet8 - 192.168.119.0 - 255.255.255.0 - vmnet8 > > > > [NAT] > > VMNet host: VMNet8 > > ======================================= > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > - Show quoted text - > > From: Francisco Tapia > > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:28:40 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Shamil, Generally the network errors may be due to the settings in your > > VM > > > for the nic card. The settings are to set the nic as Bridged, NAT or > > > Host-Only. Setting as Bridge makes the VM act like a standalone pc where > > > you can communicate from your host to the guest and the guest back to the > > > host as if each was it's own hardware pc. Setting it as NAT, then you > > have > > > essentially a firewall on the guest pc and you can't reach it from the > > host > > > you can only go from guest to host. Host-Only is a nice feature in that > > the > > > guest pc can only talk to the host. The host pc will be able to work as > > > normal, and will also have access to the guest pc via the network. > > > > > > my typical settings are to setup vm workstations as bridged. > > > > > > btw, I was reading through this thread and while I am not familiar enough > > > with C# I'd like to observe the project as I know I'd learn a great deal > > > from it. > > > > > > I do have VS2008 std. > > > > > > -Francisco > > > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > > > > > > > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 00:14:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 09:14:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: <0457C88B5BCA4FA588E242678DF59EC8@Mattys> References: <0457C88B5BCA4FA588E242678DF59EC8@Mattys> Message-ID: My congratulations, Mike! Yes, Visual Studio 10/.NET Framework 4 promise a lot of new features - by the time they will be released you should have already a good working skills of programming in .NET Framework using WinForms etc. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:28:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Ha! Figures. > > I get VS2008 installed, go out and return from dinner ... > > Upon starting the program, I'm taken immediately to > 10-4 Episode 2: Welcome to Visual Studio 2010 > > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > Cc: "dba-VB" > Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:34 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > Hi Shamil, > > > > I am installing 'as we speak.' > > I can use the extra week because I just got a good size project. > > Thank you also! > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 02:53:08 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 11:53:08 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zICB3ZSBoYXZl?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Sorry that was mistyping - of course I used 2008 ReportViewer SP1 Redistributables: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=BB196D5D-76C2-4A0E-9458-267D22B6AAC6&displaylang=en -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:39:33 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > That's a lot you have been through! So only one question: Why the 2005 version of Report Viewer Redistributable? > As we all run VS2008 in some version, the Report Viewer Redistributable 2008 SP1 is available. > > Microsoft Report Viewer 2008 SP1 Redistributable: > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=BB196D5D-76C2-4A0E-9458-267D22B6AAC6&displaylang=en > > The only reason I can think of is: > > > Required Software: > .NET Framework version 3.5 SP1: You must install the .NET Framework Redistributable Package version 3.5 SP1 prior to installing the Microsoft Report Viewer 2008 SP1 Redistributable > > > This means that the minimum OS to be used is Windows XP as .Net 3.5 is not for Windows 2000, but is that an issue? Will we be programming for .Net 2.0 and Windows 2000? > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-03-2009 00:35 >>> > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Today I have tested C# 2008 Express with VS2008 Prof. solution, which you have got downloaded from > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > that was the solution named NorthWind.NET.VS2008 - usual VS2008 solution with WinForms FE project, console project and several class library projects. One of the classlibs has also ReportViewer control and .rdlc placeholder report. > > That solutuon wascompiled, built and run OK. > > I have done C# 2008 Express installation from "All-in-One" Express CD freely available on MS site > > http://www.microsoft.com/express/download/offline.aspx > > I have also installed > > Microsoft Report Viewer Redistributable 2005 Service Pack 1 > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=82833F27-081D-4B72-83EF-2836360A904D&displaylang=en > > The above installations were done of a Win XP2 SP2 without .NET Framework. > > Recap: > 1) C# 2008 Express compiles, builds and runs well VS2008 Prof. Solutions with several source projects and source class libraries > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express1.jpg > > 2) C# 2008 Express does need additionally MS Report Viewer Redistributable Service Pack 1 installation to run ReportViewer control reports > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express2.jpg > > 3) C# 2008 setup installs quite some other prerequisites > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express.jpg > > BUT > > 4) C# 2008 Express *does not* have design mode for ReportView Control reports - .rdlc files - they have to be edited manually as text(XML) files within solution. > > 5) C# Express doesn't have debug/release modes but still code can be debugged > ===================== > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 03:01:25 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:01:25 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, thank you. Yes, Gladinet looks interesting - I can use it with SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer. And it can mount my SkyDrive as logical device e.g. Z: It would be useful if Gladinet can somehow mount just public part of SkyDrive for all of us to use it as code vault for source code control... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:55:06 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > Approved. > Also, 16. March is fine for me. > > Gladinet looks quite interesting! > http://www.gladinet.com > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-03-2009 00:36 >>> > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Please see first my previous message concerning C# Express 2008 tests. > Based on that tests' results our team can now use 2008 versions: > > C# 2008 Express, VS2008 Standard and VS 2008 Prof: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: C# 2008 Express > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. > > Please approve that. > > Thank you Mike for your purchasing of VS2008 Prof. > Thank you all for your help with testing sample projects. > > I must say I spent quite some time during this week to prepare different configurations or test projects, to make VMWAre installation on Vista Ultimate, to download and burn setup disks, to run setups and compile, build and run tests. > > That was a long way to get the current good result. > Witt nowaday knowledge I'd go shorter way, namely: > > - make very simple VS2008 Winforms project with placeholder sample ReportViewer control report; > - install VMWare Player 2.x on Vista or better just use VMWare Server installed on my another development PC; > - download "All-in-One" Express CD and ReportViewer Control Redistributables SP1; > - install C# 2008 Express and ReportViewer Redist. on Win XP SP2 VM; > - copy simple sample project to VM and test it to see that it works OK; > > --- > That shorter way would have saved me a couple+ of working days. > --- > Lessons learned. Some other byside results achieved during the above tests. > --- > We can start working on project now when Mike will get hist VS2008 Prof,. will install it and play with it a little, and when John will get C# 2008 Express installed. > --- > I'd propose now to shift project start for one week to 16th of March. The reason for me is that I have spent quite some time on this work during thsi week, and I have urgent project to work on very intensively. > The reason for Mike and John could be to adpat a little bit to VS 2008 Prof and C# 2008 Express. > I'd also need to setup TargetProcess - and that isn't straightforward as this shoudl be manual installation first tested on local PC and then deployed on my ASP.NET hosting. I wanted also to make some setup/adjustmentd on SCRUM at Extreme web site. > And we also have to find a way how to share/synchronize our source code: > Coudl you please look at - http://www.gladinet.com/ - I have it installed here and it allows to use MS Live SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer, the same coudl be done for Google Docs and some other (Free) Internet Storage providers... > Even with shifted project start date we can discuss during the next week how to organize the source code within the solution, and the related issues... > > Please post your thoughts/proposals here. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 6 10:53:28 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:53:28 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model Message-ID: Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > In .. .aspx.cs file: private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. Any suggestions? /gustav > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { IQueryable query; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { query = from Location location in this.Location where location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) select location; } else { query = from Location location in this.Location select location; } return (query as ObjectQuery); } } *** From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 7 08:27:15 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:27:15 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model Message-ID: Hi all I finally found out how to return Location rather than anonymous types: public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { ObjectQuery locationByOwner; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { locationByOwner = Location .Where("it.Owner.Id = @ownerId", new ObjectParameter ("ownerId", _locationFilterOwner.Id)); } else { locationByOwner = Location; } return locationByOwner; } } Now, how could I use the object Owner as parameter and not Owner.Id? This is not accepted: .Where("it.Owner = @owner", new ObjectParameter ("owner", _locationFilterOwner)); as only scalar values are accepted as parameter values. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 06-03-2009 17:53 >>> Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > In .. .aspx.cs file: private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. Any suggestions? /gustav > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { IQueryable query; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { query = from Location location in this.Location where location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) select location; } else { query = from Location location in this.Location select location; } return (query as ObjectQuery); } } *** From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 7 08:41:25 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:41:25 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model Message-ID: Hi all Also, the fill method is now vastly reduced. protected void OwnerDropDownList_Init(object sender, EventArgs e) { LocationDropDownList.DataValueField = "Id"; LocationDropDownList.DataTextField = "Location1"; } private void FillLocationDropDownList() { LocationDropDownList.DataSource = _erhvervslejeContext.LocationByOwnerQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 07-03-2009 15:27 >>> Hi all I finally found out how to return Location rather than anonymous types: public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { ObjectQuery locationByOwner; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { locationByOwner = Location .Where("it.Owner.Id = @ownerId", new ObjectParameter ("ownerId", _locationFilterOwner.Id)); } else { locationByOwner = Location; } return locationByOwner; } } Now, how could I use the object Owner as parameter and not Owner.Id? This is not accepted: .Where("it.Owner = @owner", new ObjectParameter ("owner", _locationFilterOwner)); as only scalar values are accepted as parameter values. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 06-03-2009 17:53 >>> Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > In .. .aspx.cs file: private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. Any suggestions? /gustav > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { IQueryable query; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { query = from Location location in this.Location where location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) select location; } else { query = from Location location in this.Location select location; } return (query as ObjectQuery); } } *** From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 9 16:23:58 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:23:58 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?QURPLk5FVCBFbnRpdHkgTW9kZWw=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Thank you for your information on ADO.NET Entity Model. I must say I personally haven't yet tried to use it... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:41:25 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model > Hi all > > Also, the fill method is now vastly reduced. > > protected void OwnerDropDownList_Init(object sender, EventArgs e) > { > LocationDropDownList.DataValueField = "Id"; > LocationDropDownList.DataTextField = "Location1"; > } > > private void FillLocationDropDownList() > { > LocationDropDownList.DataSource = _erhvervslejeContext.LocationByOwnerQuery; > LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); > } > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 07-03-2009 15:27 >>> > Hi all > > I finally found out how to return Location rather than anonymous types: > > public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery > { > get > { > ObjectQuery locationByOwner; > if (_locationFilterOwner != null) > { > locationByOwner = > Location > .Where("it.Owner.Id = @ownerId", > new ObjectParameter ("ownerId", _locationFilterOwner.Id)); > } > else > { > locationByOwner = > Location; > } > return locationByOwner; > } > } > > Now, how could I use the object Owner as parameter and not Owner.Id? > This is not accepted: > > .Where("it.Owner = @owner", new ObjectParameter ("owner", _locationFilterOwner)); > > as only scalar values are accepted as parameter values. > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 06-03-2009 17:53 >>> > Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... > > I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. > The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > > > In .. .aspx.cs file: > > private void FillLocationDropDownList() > { > var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location > select new > { > Id = l.Id, > Location1 = l.Location1 > }).ToList(); > LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; > LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); > } > > However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): > > private void FillLocationDropDownList() > { > var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location > select new > { > Id = l.Id, > Location1 = l.Location1 > }).ToList(); > LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; > LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); > } > > > Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: > > " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. > Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." > > I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. > > Any suggestions? > > /gustav > > > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext > > public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery > { > get > { > IQueryable query; > if (_locationFilterOwner != null) > { > query = > from > Location location in this.Location > where > location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) > select > location; > } > else > { > query = > from > Location location in this.Location > select > location; > } > return (query as ObjectQuery); > } > } > > *** > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 9 16:41:37 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:41:37 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Let's continue our endevour? I have created a group in MS Live space: http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ would you mind to connect to this group? - it's currently open to everybody. I'd propose to upload and share our SCRUM project files on this group SkyDrive until we will find somewhere in the future a more effective way for distrubuted files' sharing/source control. I tried PopFly (as Gustav did) and I found it's too limiting. I have posted to group our MS SQL 2005 database files: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database and I have also posted simple sample WinForm application, which I wanted to propose to discuss here to find out is proposed simple way of desining WinForm OK for everybody for the Access->NET conversion project. This simple sample form (Shippers) does get data from backend db and it does have all the functionality to add, edit, delete data (except picture data which I left untouched for the time being). Here is this simple project zip-file and screenshot: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/SampleWinFormSolution.jpg To run the project from within VS on your system you will have to change connection string in app.config . When you get connected to the group we can also use the group to have online discussions via MS Live Messenger if that will be appropriate for everybody or just keep offlne discussions as this one I have just started there: http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!129 AFAIS there are many features in MS Live Groups - still to find which ones would be the most useful for us. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:01:25 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > OK, thank you. > > Yes, Gladinet looks interesting - I can use it with SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer. > And it can mount my SkyDrive as logical device e.g. Z: > > It would be useful if Gladinet can somehow mount just public part of SkyDrive for all of us to use it as code vault for source code control... > > -- > Shamil > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 9 17:03:42 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:03:42 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: We agreed to the 16th, didn't we? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 9 17:08:53 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 01:08:53 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, we did, Mike - this is just some preliminary information/"food for thought". -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:03:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > We agreed to the 16th, didn't we? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 10 05:35:44 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:35:44 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team at all, I have extended sample solution with simple MSReportViewer list report - just to keep collecting "food for thought" - nothing facny, tricky or advanced - just aiming to prepare info to "get it done" - MS Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conersion - as qucik as possible when we all get this project work shared... Here is the link to the zipped sample solution as dba-VB MS Live group SlyDrive: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_1.zip?ccr=6990 Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:41:37 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Let's continue our endevour? > > I have created a group in MS Live space: > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ > > would you mind to connect to this group? - it's currently open to everybody. > > I'd propose to upload and share our SCRUM project files on this group SkyDrive until we will find somewhere in the future a more effective way for distrubuted files' sharing/source control. > > I tried PopFly (as Gustav did) and I found it's too limiting. > > I have posted to group our MS SQL 2005 database files: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > and I have also posted simple sample WinForm application, which I wanted to propose to discuss here to find out is proposed simple way of desining WinForm OK for everybody for the Access->NET conversion project. This simple sample form (Shippers) does get data from backend db and it does have all the functionality to add, edit, delete data (except picture data which I left untouched for the time being). > > Here is this simple project zip-file and screenshot: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/SampleWinFormSolution.jpg > > To run the project from within VS on your system you will have to change connection string in app.config . > > When you get connected to the group we can also use the group to have online discussions via MS Live Messenger if that will be appropriate for everybody or just keep offlne discussions as this one I have just started there: > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!129 > > AFAIS there are many features in MS Live Groups - still to find which ones would be the most useful for us. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 10 06:40:29 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:40:29 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, I thought the dba-Vb MS Live group is currently open to everybody with MS Live account to join but it looks like it works somehow differently (despite the fact it's set widely open to the outer world): I have found your request to join and and I have set it as accepted - I think you can now use the dba-vb MS Live group without any limitations. Jack Drawbridge has also joined the dba-VB MS Live group today. Please set you requests to join and I will try to accept them promptly. (Please send me private e-mail to Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com if you wanted to get your request to join MS Live dba-vb processed immediately.) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:57:09 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > You need to approve our applications before we are granted access ...: > > > Someone may have deleted or moved the item, or you may not have permission to view it. > If you have questions about this item, contact the person who created it. > > > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 10-03-2009 11:35 >>> > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 02:21:52 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:21:52 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have added new sample form to the sample solution to demonstrate Parent/Child design technique: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_2.zip?ccr=5258 Once again - nothing very special - just collecting all the necessary "How To" techniques within one sample solution for us to speedily proceed with Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conversion when the conversion project will start next week. Can we shortly discuss the main goal of this first coming project? For me (if I'd have been a ProductOwner/Customer) - the main goal is to get conversion work ASAP (and I (if I'd have been a ProductOwner) currently do not care what MS technologies will be used to communicate with backend - they should just work well enough for converted Northwind application, which I (as ProductOwner and my customers) plan to use as a desktop application. For me (as I'm in the role of SCRUMMaster for this project) - the main goal in this project is to get teamwork organized with as little as possible troubles/impediments for team members (including myself). And I'm not trying to "reach the stars" with this goal on this stage - just to get some satisfactory distributed teamwork environment using mainly feely available tools and technologies ... The roadmap/main goal we're aiming at AFAIU is to use ADO.NET Entity Framework in the future but for the first project we assume that we do not even know that such technology exists... OK? :) Please add your comments/notes for use to have common understanding of this forst project main goal(s)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:35:44 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM Team at all, > > I have extended sample solution with simple MSReportViewer list report - just to keep collecting "food for thought" - nothing facny, tricky or advanced - just aiming to prepare info to "get it done" - MS Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conersion - as qucik as possible when we all get this project work shared... > > Here is the link to the zipped sample solution as dba-VB MS Live group SlyDrive: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_1.zip?ccr=6990 > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:41:37 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > Let's continue our endevour? > > > > I have created a group in MS Live space: > > > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ > > > > would you mind to connect to this group? - it's currently open to everybody. > > > > I'd propose to upload and share our SCRUM project files on this group SkyDrive until we will find somewhere in the future a more effective way for distrubuted files' sharing/source control. > > > > I tried PopFly (as Gustav did) and I found it's too limiting. > > > > I have posted to group our MS SQL 2005 database files: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > and I have also posted simple sample WinForm application, which I wanted to propose to discuss here to find out is proposed simple way of desining WinForm OK for everybody for the Access->NET conversion project. This simple sample form (Shippers) does get data from backend db and it does have all the functionality to add, edit, delete data (except picture data which I left untouched for the time being). > > > > Here is this simple project zip-file and screenshot: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/SampleWinFormSolution.jpg > > > > To run the project from within VS on your system you will have to change connection string in app.config . > > > > When you get connected to the group we can also use the group to have online discussions via MS Live Messenger if that will be appropriate for everybody or just keep offlne discussions as this one I have just started there: > > > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!129 > > > > AFAIS there are many features in MS Live Groups - still to find which ones would be the most useful for us. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 02:28:16 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:28:16 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, FYI: I have just found MS published a Rich Upload tooll to MS Live SkyDrive - here it's https://secure.wlxrs.com/7MZ0K!bbIbt-RpyIqB9sIA/etc/RichUploadMsi/en/RichUpload.msi Using this tool you can set the files to upload by dragging-and-dropping them to SkyDrive folder and then clicking button [Upload]: this Rich Upload tool is an ActiveX from MS, which can be hosted within IE (I havent' checked FireFox or Opera etc. - this ActiveX should work with them too I hope). Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 11 04:30:28 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:30:28 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil et al I can see our member list and your postings and files, but If I try to reply to a comment and click Publish, a message pops up: The service is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later. This "later" seems to be "forever". Is it just me? Can any of you publish a reply/comment? /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 10-03-2009 12:40 >>> Hi Gustav, I thought the dba-Vb MS Live group is currently open to everybody with MS Live account to join but it looks like it works somehow differently (despite the fact it's set widely open to the outer world): I have found your request to join and and I have set it as accepted - I think you can now use the dba-vb MS Live group without any limitations. Jack Drawbridge has also joined the dba-VB MS Live group today. Please set you requests to join and I will try to accept them promptly. (Please send me private e-mail to Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com if you wanted to get your request to join MS Live dba-vb processed immediately.) Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 05:01:53 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:01:53 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, I have seen such a message acou ple of times but currently group posting/commenting works OK for me. Please try to do some other actions within group - I checked group options there is no limitations: Group->Options->General All members can edit the calendar All members can add and edit folders and albums Group->Options->E-Mail Group e-mail On Group->Options->Group conversations On I do not see any options about commenting/starting discussions - I'd assume they are available for every group member by deafult. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:30:28 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil et al > > I can see our member list and your postings and files, but If I try to reply to a comment and click Publish, a message pops up: > > The service is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later. > > This "later" seems to be "forever". > Is it just me? Can any of you publish a reply/comment? > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 10-03-2009 12:40 >>> > > Hi Gustav, > > I thought the dba-Vb MS Live group is currently open to everybody with MS Live account to join but it looks like it works somehow differently (despite the fact it's set widely open to the outer world): I have found your request to join and and I have set it as accepted - I think you can now use the dba-vb MS Live group without any limitations. > > Jack Drawbridge has also joined the dba-VB MS Live group today. > > Please set you requests to join and I will try to accept them promptly. (Please send me private e-mail to Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com if you wanted to get your request to join MS Live dba-vb processed immediately.) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 10:27:30 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:27:30 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Scrum Team, I have been watching closely the progress Shamil has been making, and wishing I could join, but fearing I may not be able to contribute much. I also see that there are already enough members in the team. However, if you think at this point there is merit, I would like to volunteer to join, perhaps as the product owner. From the recent content from Shamil, I see that it might useful to split these two roles that Shamil currently has ie, Scrum Master and Product Owner. If I am too late, absolutely no offence, I will continue to lurk, but if you want another member, I am available, let me know what your preference it, thanks Mark 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. > I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their > winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? > The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent > form/report as grids/tables. > > The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of > objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. > > According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to > evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" > evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that > backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any > measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be > eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. > But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry > will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period > of time than the other "ligher" ones... > > This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker > Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". > > Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: > > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker > > We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three > usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of > Product Backlog Entries. > > Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent > as possible. > > Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by > time and space? > Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the > below BackLog if you see some issues with it. > > N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in > preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole > responsibility of ProductOwner.... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. Product Backlog > > Forms > ==== > > 1. Categories > 2. Customer Labels Dialog > 3. Customer Orders > 4. Customer Orders Subform1 > 5. Customer Orders Subform2 > 6. Customer Phone List > 7. Customers > 8. Employees > 9. Main Switchboard > 10. Orders > 11. Orders Subform > 12. Product List > 13. Products > 14. Quarterly Orders > 15. Quarterly Orders Subform > 16. Sales Analysis > 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 > 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 > 19. Sales by Year Dialog > 20. Sales Reports Dialog > 21. Startup > 22. Suppliers > > Reports > ===== > 1. Alphabetical List of Products > 2. Catalog > 3. Catalog Subreport > 4. Customer Labels > 5. Employee Sales by Country > 6. Invoice > 7. Products by Category > 8. Sales by Category > 9. Sales by Category Subreport > 10. Sales by Year > 11. Sales by Year Subreport > 12. Sales Totals by Amount > 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter > 14. Summary of Sales by Year > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 14:12:04 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:12:04 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmUgU0NSVU0gUHJvamVjdCBCYWNrbG9n?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark, You're welcome to join http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:27:30 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > Hello Scrum Team, > > I have been watching closely the progress Shamil has been making, and > wishing I could join, but fearing I may not be able to contribute much. > > I also see that there are already enough members in the team. However, if > you think at this point there is merit, I would like to volunteer to join, > perhaps as the product owner. From the recent content from Shamil, I see > that it might useful to split these two roles that Shamil currently has ie, > Scrum Master and Product Owner. > > If I am too late, absolutely no offence, I will continue to lurk, but if you > want another member, I am available, > > let me know what your preference it, > > thanks > > Mark > > > > 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. > > I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their > > winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? > > The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent > > form/report as grids/tables. > > > > The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of > > objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. > > > > According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to > > evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" > > evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that > > backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any > > measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be > > eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. > > But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry > > will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period > > of time than the other "ligher" ones... > > > > This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker > > Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". > > > > Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: > > > > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker > > > > We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three > > usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of > > Product Backlog Entries. > > > > Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent > > as possible. > > > > Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by > > time and space? > > Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the > > below BackLog if you see some issues with it. > > > > N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in > > preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole > > responsibility of ProductOwner.... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. Product Backlog > > > > Forms > > ==== > > > > 1. Categories > > 2. Customer Labels Dialog > > 3. Customer Orders > > 4. Customer Orders Subform1 > > 5. Customer Orders Subform2 > > 6. Customer Phone List > > 7. Customers > > 8. Employees > > 9. Main Switchboard > > 10. Orders > > 11. Orders Subform > > 12. Product List > > 13. Products > > 14. Quarterly Orders > > 15. Quarterly Orders Subform > > 16. Sales Analysis > > 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 > > 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 > > 19. Sales by Year Dialog > > 20. Sales Reports Dialog > > 21. Startup > > 22. Suppliers > > > > Reports > > ===== > > 1. Alphabetical List of Products > > 2. Catalog > > 3. Catalog Subreport > > 4. Customer Labels > > 5. Employee Sales by Country > > 6. Invoice > > 7. Products by Category > > 8. Sales by Category > > 9. Sales by Category Subreport > > 10. Sales by Year > > 11. Sales by Year Subreport > > 12. Sales Totals by Amount > > 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter > > 14. Summary of Sales by Year > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 03:01:31 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:01:31 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Just added to simple sample application: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... etc. The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:21:52 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have added new sample form to the sample solution to demonstrate Parent/Child design technique: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_2.zip?ccr=5258 > > Once again - nothing very special - just collecting all the necessary "How To" techniques within one sample solution for us to speedily proceed with Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conversion when the conversion project will start next week. > > Can we shortly discuss the main goal of this first coming project? > > For me (if I'd have been a ProductOwner/Customer) - the main goal is to get conversion work ASAP (and I (if I'd have been a ProductOwner) currently do not care what MS technologies will be used to communicate with backend - they should just work well enough for converted Northwind application, which I (as ProductOwner and my customers) plan to use as a desktop application. > > For me (as I'm in the role of SCRUMMaster for this project) - the main goal in this project is to get teamwork organized with as little as possible troubles/impediments for team members (including myself). And I'm not trying to "reach the stars" with this goal on this stage - just to get some satisfactory distributed teamwork environment using mainly feely available tools and technologies ... > > The roadmap/main goal we're aiming at AFAIU is to use ADO.NET Entity Framework in the future but for the first project we assume that we do not even know that such technology exists... > > OK? :) > > Please add your comments/notes for use to have common understanding of this forst project main goal(s)... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 03:13:34 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:13:34 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmUgU0NSVU0gUHJvamVjdCBCYWNrbG9n?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team at all, I have posted "Product Backlog" for the conversion project here: http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!142 Please comment/add new entries to it: first what we (SCRUM tesm) will have to do next week is to evaluate how much it could take to implement this or that entry from ProductBacklog. Then deliver this information to ProductOwner for him to prioritize the sequence of implementation of features he wanted to get in the context of limited time/resources... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:12:04 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > > Hello Mark, > > You're welcome to join http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Breen > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:27:30 +0000 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > > > Hello Scrum Team, > > > > I have been watching closely the progress Shamil has been making, and > > wishing I could join, but fearing I may not be able to contribute much. > > > > I also see that there are already enough members in the team. However, if > > you think at this point there is merit, I would like to volunteer to join, > > perhaps as the product owner. From the recent content from Shamil, I see > > that it might useful to split these two roles that Shamil currently has ie, > > Scrum Master and Product Owner. > > > > If I am too late, absolutely no offence, I will continue to lurk, but if you > > want another member, I am available, > > > > let me know what your preference it, > > > > thanks > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > > > Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. > > > I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their > > > winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? > > > The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent > > > form/report as grids/tables. > > > > > > The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of > > > objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. > > > > > > According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to > > > evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" > > > evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that > > > backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any > > > measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be > > > eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. > > > But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry > > > will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period > > > of time than the other "ligher" ones... > > > > > > This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker > > > Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". > > > > > > Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: > > > > > > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker > > > > > > We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three > > > usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of > > > Product Backlog Entries. > > > > > > Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent > > > as possible. > > > > > > Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by > > > time and space? > > > Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the > > > below BackLog if you see some issues with it. > > > > > > N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in > > > preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole > > > responsibility of ProductOwner.... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > P.S. Product Backlog > > > > > > Forms > > > ==== > > > > > > 1. Categories > > > 2. Customer Labels Dialog > > > 3. Customer Orders > > > 4. Customer Orders Subform1 > > > 5. Customer Orders Subform2 > > > 6. Customer Phone List > > > 7. Customers > > > 8. Employees > > > 9. Main Switchboard > > > 10. Orders > > > 11. Orders Subform > > > 12. Product List > > > 13. Products > > > 14. Quarterly Orders > > > 15. Quarterly Orders Subform > > > 16. Sales Analysis > > > 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 > > > 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 > > > 19. Sales by Year Dialog > > > 20. Sales Reports Dialog > > > 21. Startup > > > 22. Suppliers > > > > > > Reports > > > ===== > > > 1. Alphabetical List of Products > > > 2. Catalog > > > 3. Catalog Subreport > > > 4. Customer Labels > > > 5. Employee Sales by Country > > > 6. Invoice > > > 7. Products by Category > > > 8. Sales by Category > > > 9. Sales by Category Subreport > > > 10. Sales by Year > > > 11. Sales by Year Subreport > > > 12. Sales Totals by Amount > > > 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter > > > 14. Summary of Sales by Year > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 12 08:29:19 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. This is a topic for discussion. The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: Customer Id Name etc. Order Id CustomerId etc. OrderLine Id OrderId etc. The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> Hi SCRUM team at all, Just added to simple sample application: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... etc. The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 09:58:47 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:58:47 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, I'm for proposed renaming. Can you do it? The current db backup is uploaded here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Note: - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using them. I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my old habit abandoned while working on this project... While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it as Name - that's OK with me also etc. One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software product - test conversion Northwind application... For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will say "Yes" then do this rehaming. What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff on later steps... I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited resources we have. By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use table name prefix for ID fields)... I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some reasons they could make others informed about or not... As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work "done" and project released as quick as possible... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 12 10:06:23 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:06:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: <13BC2143D86F43ADBEB0C846C254625C@Mattys> Yes - but I have a question. Are there more hours in the day over there? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, > > I'm for proposed renaming. > Can you do it? > The current db backup is uploaded here: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Note: > > - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity > fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using > them. > > I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with > one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: > CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of > technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and > therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my > old habit abandoned while working on this project... > > While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of > Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd > not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it > as Name - that's OK with me also etc. > > One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all > know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be > useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to > levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details > then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps > (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... > > I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg > proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software > product - test conversion Northwind application... > > For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS > document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one > exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary > Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like > that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name > suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... > > Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with > their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will > say "Yes" then do this rehaming. > > What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? > I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel > ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to > have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff > on later steps... > > I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming > conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd > probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited > resources we have. > > By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to > "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use > table name prefix for ID fields)... > > I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there > is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate > in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay > "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can > temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some > reasons they could make others informed about or not... > > As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems > with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such > problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. > > .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect > or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the > first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within > this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to > concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work > "done" and project released as quick as possible... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > >> Hi SCRUM team >> >> Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I >> remember many years ago JC ranting about this. >> >> As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes >> in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't >> get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same >> adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards >> >> One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the >> properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the >> db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of >> course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via >> the DataTable. >> Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read >> incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and >> correct. >> >> That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than >> such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned >> quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having >> this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model >> that there is no excuse to not do so. >> >> In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, >> but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the >> fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should >> you feel so. >> >> This is a topic for discussion. >> >> The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: >> >> Customer >> Id >> Name >> etc. >> >> Order >> Id >> CustomerId >> etc. >> >> OrderLine >> Id >> OrderId >> etc. >> >> The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary >> key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of >> course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and >> this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain >> "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket >> science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to >> remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't >> fail. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> Just added to simple sample application: >> >> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip >> >> - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; >> - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; >> - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. >> >> Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got >> some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the >> real conversion project. For example: >> >> 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia >> foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; >> >> 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after >> upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name >> etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have >> them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... >> >> etc. >> >> The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be >> fixed... >> >> There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and >> propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 10:25:21 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:25:21 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: <13BC2143D86F43ADBEB0C846C254625C@Mattys> References: <13BC2143D86F43ADBEB0C846C254625C@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you, Mike, No, there is no such a luxury here - but there should be somebody to bulldoze (break down large pieces) of this project to have it going... Hope you will have this privilegy to bulldoze current project's follow-up projects somewhere in not that far future :) Well, in fact your purchase of VS2008 Prof. is a kind of such a "bulldozing" :) Returning credits now :) Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. In fact I'm having some troubles with parallel work for money because of only 24 hours long days here... -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:06:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Yes - but I have a question. > Are there more hours in the day over there? > > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:58 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > > Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, > > > > I'm for proposed renaming. > > Can you do it? > > The current db backup is uploaded here: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > > > Note: > > > > - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity > > fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using > > them. > > > > I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with > > one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: > > CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of > > technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and > > therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my > > old habit abandoned while working on this project... > > > > While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of > > Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd > > not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it > > as Name - that's OK with me also etc. > > > > One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all > > know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be > > useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to > > levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details > > then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps > > (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... > > > > I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg > > proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software > > product - test conversion Northwind application... > > > > For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS > > document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one > > exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary > > Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like > > that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name > > suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... > > > > Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with > > their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will > > say "Yes" then do this rehaming. > > > > What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? > > I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel > > ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to > > have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff > > on later steps... > > > > I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming > > conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd > > probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited > > resources we have. > > > > By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to > > "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use > > table name prefix for ID fields)... > > > > I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there > > is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate > > in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay > > "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can > > temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some > > reasons they could make others informed about or not... > > > > As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems > > with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such > > problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. > > > > .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect > > or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the > > first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within > > this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to > > concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work > > "done" and project released as quick as possible... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > >> Hi SCRUM team > >> > >> Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I > >> remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > >> > >> As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes > >> in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't > >> get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same > >> adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > >> > >> One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the > >> properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the > >> db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of > >> course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via > >> the DataTable. > >> Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read > >> incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and > >> correct. > >> > >> That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than > >> such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned > >> quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having > >> this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model > >> that there is no excuse to not do so. > >> > >> In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, > >> but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the > >> fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should > >> you feel so. > >> > >> This is a topic for discussion. > >> > >> The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > >> > >> Customer > >> Id > >> Name > >> etc. > >> > >> Order > >> Id > >> CustomerId > >> etc. > >> > >> OrderLine > >> Id > >> OrderId > >> etc. > >> > >> The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary > >> key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of > >> course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and > >> this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain > >> "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket > >> science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to > >> remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't > >> fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >> >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > >> > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> > >> Just added to simple sample application: > >> > >> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > >> > >> - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > >> - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > >> - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > >> > >> Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got > >> some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the > >> real conversion project. For example: > >> > >> 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia > >> foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > >> > >> 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after > >> upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name > >> etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have > >> them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > >> > >> etc. > >> > >> The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be > >> fixed... > >> > >> There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and > >> propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 10:52:02 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:52:02 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, You're very probably aware - if not here is a hint on how to do renaming quickly: - open MS SQL 2005 NorthwindNet 'Main' datamodel diagram and do all renaming directly in it with saving current edits (CTLS+S) once in a while as you're doing renaming... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 12 12:36:57 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:36:57 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil When I state "hysterical" it is for new projects and databases I'm in control of. Of course, for legal setups you often would leave it as is, and I think Northwind is such a case. As for which naming convention we should use, I'm quite flexible if we just try to stick to one. But it is difficult - I can see that some have one for WinForms and another for WebForms, oh well. I could even live with OrderId for the primary key of table Order. However, in code you'll see: someDataTable.OrderId someDataTable.CustomerId Now which is - if any - the PK of someDataTable? If you have: someDataTable.Id someDataTable.CustomerId there is no doubt. Id is the PK and CustomerId is some FK. But this is just my preference, nothing more, nothing less. For tables given names equal to reserved word I believe you can just bracket these like: [Order], at least in Access and SQL Server. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 15:58:47 >>> Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, I'm for proposed renaming. Can you do it? The current db backup is uploaded here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Note: - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using them. I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my old habit abandoned while working on this project... While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it as Name - that's OK with me also etc. One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software product - test conversion Northwind application... For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will say "Yes" then do this rehaming. What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff on later steps... I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited resources we have. By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use table name prefix for ID fields)... I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some reasons they could make others informed about or not... As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work "done" and project released as quick as possible... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 12 12:37:34 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:37:34 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil That may be true for renaming (haven't tried) but I don't think field properties are written back. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 16:52:02 >>> Hi Gustav, You're very probably aware - if not here is a hint on how to do renaming quickly: - open MS SQL 2005 NorthwindNet 'Main' datamodel diagram and do all renaming directly in it with saving current edits (CTLS+S) once in a while as you're doing renaming... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 13:45:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:45:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, > someDataTable.Id > someDataTable.CustomerId > > there is no doubt. Id is the PK and CustomerId is some FK. In the naming convention I'm currently using in NorthwindNet db it would be like that: > Customer.CustomerId > Order.CustomerId and it's clear where it's a primary key and where it's a foreign key. But let's go renaming with your proposed named conventions Customer.Id Order.CustomerId Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:58:07 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > When I state "hysterical" it is for new projects and databases I'm in control of. Of course, for legal setups you often would leave it as is, and I think Northwind is such a case. > > As for which naming convention we should use, I'm quite flexible if we just try to stick to one. But it is difficult - I can see that some have one for WinForms and another for WebForms, oh well. > I could even live with OrderId for the primary key of table Order. However, in code you'll see: > > someDataTable.OrderId > someDataTable.CustomerId > > Now which is - if any - the PK of someDataTable? If you have: > > someDataTable.Id > someDataTable.CustomerId > > there is no doubt. Id is the PK and CustomerId is some FK. > But this is just my preference, nothing more, nothing less. > > For tables given names equal to reserved word I believe you can just bracket these like: [Order], at least in Access and SQL Server. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 15:58:47 >>> > > Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, > > I'm for proposed renaming. > Can you do it? > The current db backup is uploaded here: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Note: > > - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using them. > > I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my old habit abandoned while working on this project... > > While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it as Name - that's OK with me also etc. > > One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... > > I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software product - test conversion Northwind application... > > For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... > > Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will say "Yes" then do this rehaming. > > What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff on later steps... > > I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited resources we have. > > By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use table name prefix for ID fields)... > > I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some reasons they could make others informed about or not... > > As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. > > .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work "done" and project released as quick as possible... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi SCRUM team > > > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > > > This is a topic for discussion. > > > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > > > Customer > > Id > > Name > > etc. > > > > Order > > Id > > CustomerId > > etc. > > > > OrderLine > > Id > > OrderId > > etc. > > > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > Just added to simple sample application: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > > > etc. > > > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 13 02:47:02 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:47:02 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2FtcGxlIC5ORVQgRm9ybXMvUmVwb3J0cyBEZXNpZ24g?= =?koi8-r?b?VGVjaG5pcXVlcyAtIFdhczogUmU6IFNjcnVtICYgQyMgLSBWUyB2?= =?koi8-r?b?ZXJzaW9ucyB3ZSBoYXZl?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have just added and posted some more samples here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_4.zip?ccr=1869 - Calculated dataSet tables's columns (Customer.CustomerCodeAndName column in NorthWindDataModelDataSet) - ComboBoxes' binding in grid - ShipVia and CustomerId in ShipperOrdersForm's grid Source: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.data.datacolumn.expression.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:01:31 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:21:52 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have added new sample form to the sample solution to demonstrate Parent/Child design technique: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_2.zip?ccr=5258 > > > > Once again - nothing very special - just collecting all the necessary "How To" techniques within one sample solution for us to speedily proceed with Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conversion when the conversion project will start next week. > > > > Can we shortly discuss the main goal of this first coming project? > > > > For me (if I'd have been a ProductOwner/Customer) - the main goal is to get conversion work ASAP (and I (if I'd have been a ProductOwner) currently do not care what MS technologies will be used to communicate with backend - they should just work well enough for converted Northwind application, which I (as ProductOwner and my customers) plan to use as a desktop application. > > > > For me (as I'm in the role of SCRUMMaster for this project) - the main goal in this project is to get teamwork organized with as little as possible troubles/impediments for team members (including myself). And I'm not trying to "reach the stars" with this goal on this stage - just to get some satisfactory distributed teamwork environment using mainly feely available tools and technologies ... > > > > The roadmap/main goal we're aiming at AFAIU is to use ADO.NET Entity Framework in the future but for the first project we assume that we do not even know that such technology exists... > > > > OK? :) > > > > Please add your comments/notes for use to have common understanding of this forst project main goal(s)... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Mar 14 09:41:57 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:41:57 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have made sample database tables' columns renaming according to Gustav proposals - new version of db backup is here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database/NorthWindNET%7C_DB%7C_BackUp%7C_20090314.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:37:34 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > That may be true for renaming (haven't tried) but I don't think field properties are written back. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 16:52:02 >>> > Hi Gustav, > > You're very probably aware - if not here is a hint on how to do renaming quickly: > > - open MS SQL 2005 NorthwindNet 'Main' datamodel diagram and do all renaming directly in it with saving current edits (CTLS+S) once in a while as you're doing renaming... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi SCRUM team > > > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > > > This is a topic for discussion. > > > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > > > Customer > > Id > > Name > > etc. > > > > Order > > Id > > CustomerId > > etc. > > > > OrderLine > > Id > > OrderId > > etc. > > > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > > > /gustav > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Mar 14 13:21:13 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team, Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). Please ask your questions. Please make your estimations. You can download workbook with BackLog items here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 or here: http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. FORMS ===== 1 Categories 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 3 Customer Orders 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 5 Customer Orders Subform2 6 Customer Phone List 7 Customers => 2 8 Employees => 5 9 Main Switchboard 10 Orders 11 Orders Subform => 1 12 Product List 13 Products 14 Quarterly Orders 15 Quarterly Orders Subform 16 Sales Analysis => ??? 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? 19 Sales by Year Dialog 20 Sales Reports Dialog 21 Startup 22 Suppliers REPORTS ======= 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 2 Catalog 3 Catalog Subreport 4 Customer Labels 5 Employee Sales by Country 6 Invoice => 5 7 Products by Category 8 Sales by Category 9 Sales by Category Subreport 10 Sales by Year 11 Sales by Year Subreport 12 Sales Totals by Amount 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter 14 Summary of Sales by Year From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 14:13:23 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:13:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all Message-ID: <29f585dd0903141213w2f1448ccq4ff1f866e8ae527a@mail.gmail.com> After months of toying with various languages like Python and Ruby (which are lots of fun but I don't see any job postings for them) I have decided that it's time to pinch my nose and jump into the C# pool. How's the water? A. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Mar 14 14:33:32 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:33:32 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?SGVsbG8gYWxs?= In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0903141213w2f1448ccq4ff1f866e8ae527a@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0903141213w2f1448ccq4ff1f866e8ae527a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The C# sun is rising and is starting to shine full power here at dba-VB, and the water is getting hot, Arthur, welcome to the club! :) -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 14 14:44:49 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:44:49 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all Message-ID: Hi Arthur Yes, it is perfect. Jump! /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 14-03-2009 20:13 >>> After months of toying with various languages like Python and Ruby (which are lots of fun but I don't see any job postings for them) I have decided that it's time to pinch my nose and jump into the C# pool. How's the water? A. From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat Mar 14 18:45:34 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:45:34 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all References: Message-ID: All ...we got to get Bryan to change the list name to dba-dotnet :) ...ain't no .net, much less C# gurus even gonna look at a vb list :( ...and no slight meant to Shamil or Gustav, but we could use a couple :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Gustav Brock" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:44 PM To: Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Hello all > Hi Arthur > > Yes, it is perfect. Jump! > > /gustav > >>>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 14-03-2009 20:13 >>> > After months of toying with various languages like Python and Ruby (which > are lots of fun but I don't see any job postings for them) I have decided > that it's time to pinch my nose and jump into the C# pool. How's the > water? > > A. > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 20:56:43 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:56:43 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29f585dd0903141856n7639d302gc9f44ca36f9a7584@mail.gmail.com> Cannonballllllllll... On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > Yes, it is perfect. Jump! > > /gustav > From Gustav at cactus.dk Sun Mar 15 03:17:10 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:17:10 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all Message-ID: Hi William That is a good idea. /gustav >>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 15-03-2009 00:45 >>> ...we got to get Bryan to change the list name to dba-dotnet :) From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 16 11:15:09 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. I have made mine over weekend. Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Hi SCRUM Team, > > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: > > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. > > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > Please ask your questions. > Please make your estimations. > > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > or here: > > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. > > > FORMS > ===== > > 1 Categories > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > 3 Customer Orders > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > 6 Customer Phone List > 7 Customers => 2 > 8 Employees => 5 > 9 Main Switchboard > 10 Orders > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > 12 Product List > 13 Products > 14 Quarterly Orders > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > 21 Startup > 22 Suppliers > > REPORTS > ======= > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > 2 Catalog > 3 Catalog Subreport > 4 Customer Labels > 5 Employee Sales by Country > 6 Invoice => 5 > 7 Products by Category > 8 Sales by Category > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > 10 Sales by Year > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 16 17:37:35 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 01:37:35 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RllJOiBHb3QgQ1NNIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIHRvZGF5Li4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and other projects. Thank you. -- Shamil From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 02:03:32 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 07:03:32 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well done Shamil. Max On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM > endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area ( > http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 17 02:16:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:16:58 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... References: Message-ID: <6645DEA9757640B18593B4A0D354A8A1@Mattys> My sentiments exactly - Congratulations. And gratitude for sharing your successes with all as you do. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:03 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > Well done Shamil. > > Max > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil > wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf >> >> Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM >> endevour... >> >> I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area ( >> http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it >> will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion >> and >> other projects. >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marklbreen at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 06:08:14 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:08:14 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Shamil, Congratulations to you on this, I hope it is profitable for you in next few years, Mark 2009/3/16 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM > endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area ( > http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 17 08:35:27 2009 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us. ???????????? (hope this is close) Jack -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... Hi All, Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and other projects. Thank you. -- Shamil _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 09:07:01 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:07:01 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] test Message-ID: <49BFAE85.5090504@gmail.com> testing if I am subscribed. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 09:45:45 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:45:45 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?dGVzdA==?= In-Reply-To: <49BFAE85.5090504@gmail.com> References: <49BFAE85.5090504@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi John, Yes, you're. Welcome to dba-VB! :) Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:02:24 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:24 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > I have made mine over weekend. > > Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: > > > > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. > > > > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > > > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > > > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > > > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > > > Please ask your questions. > > Please make your estimations. > > > > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > > > or here: > > > > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. > > > > > > FORMS > > ===== > > > > 1 Categories > > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > 3 Customer Orders > > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > 6 Customer Phone List > > 7 Customers => 2 > > 8 Employees => 5 > > 9 Main Switchboard > > 10 Orders > > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > 12 Product List > > 13 Products > > 14 Quarterly Orders > > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > 21 Startup > > 22 Suppliers > > > > REPORTS > > ======= > > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > 2 Catalog > > 3 Catalog Subreport > > 4 Customer Labels > > 5 Employee Sales by Country > > 6 Invoice => 5 > > 7 Products by Category > > 8 Sales by Category > > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > 10 Sales by Year > > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:02:54 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:54 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > I have made mine over weekend. > > Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: > > > > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. > > > > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > > > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > > > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > > > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > > > Please ask your questions. > > Please make your estimations. > > > > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > > > or here: > > > > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. > > > > > > FORMS > > ===== > > > > 1 Categories > > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > 3 Customer Orders > > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > 6 Customer Phone List > > 7 Customers => 2 > > 8 Employees => 5 > > 9 Main Switchboard > > 10 Orders > > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > 12 Product List > > 13 Products > > 14 Quarterly Orders > > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > 21 Startup > > 22 Suppliers > > > > REPORTS > > ======= > > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > 2 Catalog > > 3 Catalog Subreport > > 4 Customer Labels > > 5 Employee Sales by Country > > 6 Invoice => 5 > > 7 Products by Category > > 8 Sales by Category > > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > 10 Sales by Year > > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:15:16 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:15:16 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RllJOiBHb3QgQ1NNIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIHRvZGF5Li4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you everybody for your congratulations! I will try to keep facilitating "SCRUM values" here as far as I have got them from my CSM course and as I currently understand them - there should be mistakes and inconsistencies very probably in this my facilitating as I'm only beginning my SCRUMMaster activity for broad audience but I do expect there should be much more useful and interesting results demonstrated by all the involved parties, especially by SCRUM team members... Here they are (in the sequence they joined the team): - Gustav Brock, - Mike Mattys, - Doug Murphy and - John Colby And our ProductOwner/StakeHolder: - Mark Breen Thank you. :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Jack and Pat" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of > us. > > ???????????? (hope this is close) > > Jack > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area > (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 17 12:15:15 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:15:15 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog Planning Game... Message-ID: Hi Shamil That is perfectly OK for me. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 18:02 >>> Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:15:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:15:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RllJOiBHb3QgQ1NNIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIHRvZGF5Li4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you everybody for your congratulations! I will try to keep facilitating "SCRUM values" here as far as I have got them from my CSM course and as I currently understand them - there should be mistakes and inconsistencies very probably in this my facilitating as I'm only beginning my SCRUMMaster activity for broad audience but I do expect there should be much more useful and interesting results demonstrated by all the involved parties, especially by SCRUM team members... Here they are (in the sequence they joined the team): - Gustav Brock, - Mike Mattys, - Doug Murphy and - John Colby And our ProductOwner/StakeHolder: - Mark Breen Thank you. :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Jack and Pat" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of > us. > > ???????????? (hope this is close) > > Jack > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area > (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:17:37 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:17:37 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry for posting the same message twice - that was my Internet -email agent issue. -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:54 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. > < snip> From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 12:23:16 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BFDC84.6020108@gmail.com> That sounds good to me also. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >> I have made mine over weekend. >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> To: dba-VB >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... >> >> >>> Hi SCRUM Team, >>> >>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: >>> >>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >>> >>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. >>> >>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >>> >>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) >>> >>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >>> >>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >>> >>> Please ask your questions. >>> Please make your estimations. >>> >>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >>> >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >>> >>> or here: >>> >>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >>> >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> >>> P.S. >>> >>> >>> FORMS >>> ===== >>> >>> 1 Categories >>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >>> 3 Customer Orders >>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >>> 6 Customer Phone List >>> 7 Customers => 2 >>> 8 Employees => 5 >>> 9 Main Switchboard >>> 10 Orders >>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 >>> 12 Product List >>> 13 Products >>> 14 Quarterly Orders >>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog >>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog >>> 21 Startup >>> 22 Suppliers >>> >>> REPORTS >>> ======= >>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >>> 2 Catalog >>> 3 Catalog Subreport >>> 4 Customer Labels >>> 5 Employee Sales by Country >>> 6 Invoice => 5 >>> 7 Products by Category >>> 8 Sales by Category >>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport >>> 10 Sales by Year >>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport >>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount >>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-VB mailing list >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 12:24:14 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:24:14 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BFDCBE.3010203@gmail.com> I was wondering... I have a new web site and my wife is informing me of emails she receives twice. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Sorry for posting the same message twice - that was my Internet -email agent issue. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:54 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. >> >> > < snip> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 12:26:34 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:26:34 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BFDD4A.10903@gmail.com> Congratulations Shamil on the certification! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you everybody for your congratulations! > > I will try to keep facilitating "SCRUM values" here as far as I have got them from my CSM course and as I currently understand them - there should be mistakes and inconsistencies very probably in this my facilitating as I'm only beginning my SCRUMMaster activity for broad audience but I do expect there should be much more useful and interesting results demonstrated by all the involved parties, especially by SCRUM team members... > > Here they are (in the sequence they joined the team): > > - Gustav Brock, > - Mike Mattys, > - Doug Murphy and > - John Colby > > And our ProductOwner/StakeHolder: > > - Mark Breen > > Thank you. :) > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Jack and Pat" > To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 > Subject: RE: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > > >> Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of >> us. >> >> ???????????? (hope this is close) >> >> Jack >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov >> Shamil >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM >> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. >> Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... >> >> Hi All, >> >> Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf >> >> Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... >> >> I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area >> (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it >> will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and >> other projects. >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 17 12:57:12 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... References: Message-ID: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would see me would be at the bottom of the pool! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and > myself. > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have > time to make his estimations. > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > estimations here - is that OK with you? > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there > is some work to do in coordinating them. > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >> I have made mine over weekend. >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan >> implementation/release... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> To: dba-VB >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> > >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following >> > values: >> > >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >> > >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on >> > the next estimation round. >> > >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >> > >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more >> > definitive estimation for this item.) >> > >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >> > >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >> > >> > Please ask your questions. >> > Please make your estimations. >> > >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >> > >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >> > >> > or here: >> > >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >> > >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > P.S. >> > >> > >> > FORMS >> > ===== >> > >> > 1 Categories >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >> > 3 Customer Orders >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >> > 6 Customer Phone List >> > 7 Customers => 2 >> > 8 Employees => 5 >> > 9 Main Switchboard >> > 10 Orders >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 >> > 12 Product List >> > 13 Products >> > 14 Quarterly Orders >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog >> > 21 Startup >> > 22 Suppliers >> > >> > REPORTS >> > ======= >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >> > 2 Catalog >> > 3 Catalog Subreport >> > 4 Customer Labels >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country >> > 6 Invoice => 5 >> > 7 Products by Category >> > 8 Sales by Category >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport >> > 10 Sales by Year >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 15:53:08 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:53:08 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> References: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you SCRUM team, let's wait for Doug estimatiion to arrive. Meanwhile shoudlnt' we try to select distributed source control system? - Here are two candidates: 1. BAZAAR http://bazaar-vcs.org/ and https://launchpad.net/ and 2. CODEPLEX http://www.codeplex.com/ I must say I didn't use nor the first nor the second. Shouldn't we try BAZAAR via Launchpad first of all? Bazaar/Lanchpad seems to be a really lightweight yet powerful source control system. Shouldn't we just create a project in Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/) and to put some files in it and just try to check-out/edit/check-in them distributed way and see what happens - just plain test text files? Please propose other options to consider for distributed source control. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. > > I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would > see me would be at the bottom of the pool! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and > > myself. > > > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he > > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have > > time to make his estimations. > > > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, > > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project > > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking > > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced > > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and > > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some > > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > > > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this > > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we > > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > > estimations here - is that OK with you? > > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there > > is some work to do in coordinating them. > > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > >> > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> > >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > >> I have made mine over weekend. > >> > >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today > >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of > >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to > >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan > >> implementation/release... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> To: dba-VB > >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > >> > >> > Hi SCRUM Team, > >> > > >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > >> > values: > >> > > >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > >> > > >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) > >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on > >> > the next estimation round. > >> > > >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make > >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - > >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > >> > > >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just > >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear > >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a > >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET > >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this > >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more > >> > definitive estimation for this item.) > >> > > >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > >> > > >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like > >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > >> > > >> > Please ask your questions. > >> > Please make your estimations. > >> > > >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > >> > > >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > >> > > >> > or here: > >> > > >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > >> > > >> > > >> > Thank you. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Shamil > >> > > >> > P.S. > >> > > >> > > >> > FORMS > >> > ===== > >> > > >> > 1 Categories > >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > >> > 3 Customer Orders > >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > >> > 6 Customer Phone List > >> > 7 Customers => 2 > >> > 8 Employees => 5 > >> > 9 Main Switchboard > >> > 10 Orders > >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > >> > 12 Product List > >> > 13 Products > >> > 14 Quarterly Orders > >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > >> > 21 Startup > >> > 22 Suppliers > >> > > >> > REPORTS > >> > ======= > >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > >> > 2 Catalog > >> > 3 Catalog Subreport > >> > 4 Customer Labels > >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country > >> > 6 Invoice => 5 > >> > 7 Products by Category > >> > 8 Sales by Category > >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > >> > 10 Sales by Year > >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 17 16:01:46 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... References: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> Message-ID: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. I'll have to download it and see if it runs. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Thank you SCRUM team, let's wait for Doug estimatiion to arrive. > > Meanwhile shoudlnt' we try to select distributed source control system? - > Here are two candidates: > > 1. BAZAAR > > http://bazaar-vcs.org/ and https://launchpad.net/ > > and > > 2. CODEPLEX > > http://www.codeplex.com/ > > I must say I didn't use nor the first nor the second. > > Shouldn't we try BAZAAR via Launchpad first of all? Bazaar/Lanchpad seems > to be a really lightweight yet powerful source control system. > > Shouldn't we just create a project in Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/) > and to put some files in it and just try to check-out/edit/check-in them > distributed way and see what happens - just plain test text files? > > Please propose other options to consider for distributed source control. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > >> I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. >> >> I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would >> see me would be at the bottom of the pool! >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >> Game... >> >> >> > >> > Hi SCRUM team at all, >> > >> > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and >> > myself. >> > >> > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me >> > he >> > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have >> > time to make his estimations. >> > >> > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, >> > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project >> > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking >> > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced >> > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and >> > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some >> > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). >> > >> > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting >> > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members >> > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any >> > NorthWind .NET form or report... >> > >> > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in >> > this >> > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done >> > we >> > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... >> > >> > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our >> > estimations here - is that OK with you? >> > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore >> > there >> > is some work to do in coordinating them. >> > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial >> > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week >> > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but >> > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related >> > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> > issues." >> > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >> > Game... >> > >> >> >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >> >> I have made mine over weekend. >> >> >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today >> >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of >> >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to >> >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan >> >> implementation/release... >> >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Shamil >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> >> To: dba-VB >> >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >> >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >> >> Game... >> >> >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> >> > >> >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product >> >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following >> >> > values: >> >> > >> >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >> >> > >> >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT >> >> > gmail.com) >> >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them >> >> > on >> >> > the next estimation round. >> >> > >> >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make >> >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - >> >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >> >> > >> >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - >> >> > just >> >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear >> >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's >> >> > a >> >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in >> >> > .NET >> >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time >> >> > this >> >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more >> >> > definitive estimation for this item.) >> >> > >> >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in >> >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >> >> > >> >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks >> >> > like >> >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >> >> > >> >> > Please ask your questions. >> >> > Please make your estimations. >> >> > >> >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >> >> > >> >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >> >> > >> >> > or here: >> >> > >> >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html >> >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Thank you. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Shamil >> >> > >> >> > P.S. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > FORMS >> >> > ===== >> >> > >> >> > 1 Categories >> >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >> >> > 3 Customer Orders >> >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >> >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >> >> > 6 Customer Phone List >> >> > 7 Customers => 2 >> >> > 8 Employees => 5 >> >> > 9 Main Switchboard >> >> > 10 Orders >> >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 >> >> > 12 Product List >> >> > 13 Products >> >> > 14 Quarterly Orders >> >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >> >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >> >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >> >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >> >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog >> >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog >> >> > 21 Startup >> >> > 22 Suppliers >> >> > >> >> > REPORTS >> >> > ======= >> >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >> >> > 2 Catalog >> >> > 3 Catalog Subreport >> >> > 4 Customer Labels >> >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country >> >> > 6 Invoice => 5 >> >> > 7 Products by Category >> >> > 8 Sales by Category >> >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport >> >> > 10 Sales by Year >> >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport >> >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount >> >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >> >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > dba-VB mailing list >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> dba-VB mailing list >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 17:19:08 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 01:19:08 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> References: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike and SCRUM team, If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files in it to share... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:53 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > > > > Thank you SCRUM team, let's wait for Doug estimatiion to arrive. > > > > Meanwhile shoudlnt' we try to select distributed source control system? - > > Here are two candidates: > > > > 1. BAZAAR > > > > http://bazaar-vcs.org/ and https://launchpad.net/ > > > > and > > > > 2. CODEPLEX > > > > http://www.codeplex.com/ > > > > I must say I didn't use nor the first nor the second. > > > > Shouldn't we try BAZAAR via Launchpad first of all? Bazaar/Lanchpad seems > > to be a really lightweight yet powerful source control system. > > > > Shouldn't we just create a project in Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/) > > and to put some files in it and just try to check-out/edit/check-in them > > distributed way and see what happens - just plain test text files? > > > > Please propose other options to consider for distributed source control. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > >> I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. > >> > >> I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would > >> see me would be at the bottom of the pool! > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > >> Game... > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> > > >> > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and > >> > myself. > >> > > >> > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me > >> > he > >> > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have > >> > time to make his estimations. > >> > > >> > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, > >> > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project > >> > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking > >> > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced > >> > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and > >> > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some > >> > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > >> > > >> > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > >> > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > >> > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > >> > NorthWind .NET form or report... > >> > > >> > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in > >> > this > >> > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done > >> > we > >> > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > >> > > >> > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > >> > estimations here - is that OK with you? > >> > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore > >> > there > >> > is some work to do in coordinating them. > >> > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > >> > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > >> > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > >> > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > >> > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > >> > > >> > Thank you. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Shamil > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > >> > issues." > >> > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > >> > Game... > >> > > >> >> > >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> >> > >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > >> >> I have made mine over weekend. > >> >> > >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today > >> >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of > >> >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to > >> >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan > >> >> implementation/release... > >> >> > >> >> Thank you. > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Shamil > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> >> To: dba-VB > >> >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > >> >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > >> >> Game... > >> >> > >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, > >> >> > > >> >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > >> >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > >> >> > values: > >> >> > > >> >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > >> >> > > >> >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT > >> >> > gmail.com) > >> >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them > >> >> > on > >> >> > the next estimation round. > >> >> > > >> >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make > >> >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - > >> >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > >> >> > > >> >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - > >> >> > just > >> >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear > >> >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's > >> >> > a > >> >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in > >> >> > .NET > >> >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time > >> >> > this > >> >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more > >> >> > definitive estimation for this item.) > >> >> > > >> >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > >> >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > >> >> > > >> >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks > >> >> > like > >> >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > >> >> > > >> >> > Please ask your questions. > >> >> > Please make your estimations. > >> >> > > >> >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > >> >> > > >> >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > >> >> > > >> >> > or here: > >> >> > > >> >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > >> >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Thank you. > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > Shamil > >> >> > > >> >> > P.S. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > FORMS > >> >> > ===== > >> >> > > >> >> > 1 Categories > >> >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > >> >> > 3 Customer Orders > >> >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > >> >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > >> >> > 6 Customer Phone List > >> >> > 7 Customers => 2 > >> >> > 8 Employees => 5 > >> >> > 9 Main Switchboard > >> >> > 10 Orders > >> >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > >> >> > 12 Product List > >> >> > 13 Products > >> >> > 14 Quarterly Orders > >> >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > >> >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > >> >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > >> >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > >> >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > >> >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > >> >> > 21 Startup > >> >> > 22 Suppliers > >> >> > > >> >> > REPORTS > >> >> > ======= > >> >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > >> >> > 2 Catalog > >> >> > 3 Catalog Subreport > >> >> > 4 Customer Labels > >> >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country > >> >> > 6 Invoice => 5 > >> >> > 7 Products by Category > >> >> > 8 Sales by Category > >> >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > >> >> > 10 Sales by Year > >> >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > >> >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > >> >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > >> >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> dba-VB mailing list > >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 06:43:20 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:43:20 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Message-ID: Hello Shamil, As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get access to the code on that project. If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, I believe that it would be the best choice. FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work well for all team members. My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. Mark 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all > need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can > be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities > simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), > and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download > and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python > interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and > setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well > organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > in it to share... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > > I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 06:52:54 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:52:54 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C0E096.7030601@gmail.com> Not to mention the fact that many of us don't use source control at all on a daily basis. It is another thing to come up to speed on. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Shamil, > As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues > with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the > project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became > a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was > only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get > access to the code on that project. > > If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, > I believe that it would be the best choice. > > FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on > our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, > Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of > course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough > with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some > routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small > solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work > well for all team members. > > My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it > becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever > architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members > so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > > > >> Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> >> If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all >> need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can >> be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities >> simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), >> and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download >> and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... >> >> Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python >> interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and >> setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? >> >> Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well >> organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files >> in it to share... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Mike Mattys" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... >> >> >>> Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. >>> I'll have to download it and see if it runs. >>> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 18 06:57:42 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:57:42 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog Planning Game... Message-ID: Hi Shamil I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to require some effort to set up and test. CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> Hi Mike and SCRUM team, If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files in it to share... Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 07:49:04 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:49:04 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark, Yes, source code control is important and very desirable but when resources are limited, and especially when there are many other tasks to solve to release final product then I suppose that automated source code control can be postponed. I personaly have experience of working in distributed team on several projects withoput automated source control - and that worked OK, and all code was available when needed etc.... The first project is small, and all code coordination can be done manually without that much overhead I suppose... Yes, this was my initiative yesterday to start talking on SCCS expecting that maybe somebody will come with ready to use solution/experience but my current proposal (because we do not have such experience as a team) is to postpone source code control for now, and to introduce it if we will make the project quicker than we will plan to do it. For now for this small project we can just split it into separate parts (source files within one solution) and have somebody to play the role of SCCS manually. In my opinion good candidates for distributed SCCS seems to be: CodePlex (http://www.codeplex.com/) and Bazaar (http://bazaar-vcs.org/ , https://launchpad.net/) Here is how CodePlex can be used: http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home still I'd postpone trying to do introduce SCCS in the very beginning of our project if only somebody of the team wouldn't want to invest their free time into that trial and to make a short instruction for everybody how to have our project seemslessly published and kept on CodePlex... Mark, I'm playing the role of SCRUMMaster and what I'm doing now (commenting here the issue of SCCS) is in fact shouldn't be my responsibility as I shoudln't influence team members solution to use or not to use SCCS... ...but you're a ProductOwner and according to this role asking to use SCCS by the team is also unusual practice - ProductOwner cares about product features and products releases and all the rest is not interesting to the ProductOwner usually, even "forbidden" to mention accoridng to SCRUM process as far as I understand it... But that's OK I suppose you and myself are currently talking about SCCS because here we currently have to have a kind of mixture of roles but when proposing/telling something we have to be very constructive and goal oriented to not fall into lengthy discussions on "best practices" etc. without developing and delivering real software customers are waiting for - if we can live without SCCS for some time let it be so? I think that our main customers are Access-D(dba-VB) memebers and you as a ProductOwner - would you like to see us (SCRUMMaster and team members) building robust SCCS and spending most of the time on that activity or you wanted us to have NorthWind.NET implemented for you to play with an see how it is done? Recap: - let's postpone SCCS usage in our environment if only somebody (Mark Breen?) will not come with ready to use and free solution for every team member to start using in fifteen minutes/half-an hour? - let's keep collecting info on available SCCS options to try them in the end of our projects if we will have enough time left. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:43:20 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Hello Shamil, > As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues > with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the > project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became > a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was > only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get > access to the code on that project. > > If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, > I believe that it would be the best choice. > > FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on > our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, > Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of > course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough > with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some > routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small > solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work > well for all team members. > > My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it > becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever > architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members > so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all > > need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can > > be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities > > simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), > > and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download > > and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > > > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python > > interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and > > setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > > > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well > > organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > > system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > > in it to share... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > > > Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > > > I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 07:53:41 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:53:41 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <49C0E096.7030601@gmail.com> References: <49C0E096.7030601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <<< It is another thing to come up to speed on. >>> Yes. -----Original Message----- From: John W Colby To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:52:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Not to mention the fact that many of us don't use source control at all > on a daily basis. It is another thing to come up to speed on. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Mark Breen wrote: > > Hello Shamil, > > As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues > > with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the > > project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became > > a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was > > only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get > > access to the code on that project. > > > > If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, > > I believe that it would be the best choice. > > > > FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on > > our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, > > Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of > > course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough > > with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some > > routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small > > solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work > > well for all team members. > > > > My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it > > becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever > > architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members > > so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > >> Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > >> > >> If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all > >> need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can > >> be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities > >> simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), > >> and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download > >> and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > >> > >> Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python > >> interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and > >> setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > >> > >> Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well > >> organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > >> in it to share... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > >> Basic and related programming issues." > >> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > >> > >> > >>> Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > >>> I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > >>> > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 07:54:38 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:54:38 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?IGtMb2cgUGxhbm5pbmdHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, Gustav, I agree, Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog PlanningGame... > Hi Shamil > > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to require some effort to set up and test. > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: > > http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files in it to share... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 12:49:49 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:49:49 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RndkOiB0byB0ZXN0?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Mark, This is good news. This is good that you made a proposal, and then came with a constructive solution very promptly :) It's very much appreciated! Still I'd not force SCRUM team members to use this solution from the very beginning if they only do not want to try it by themselves: one of the main SCRUMMaster's roles AFAIG is to "shield" team members from any impediments coming from outside, especially from ProductOwner :) Well, I'm a kind of kidding for this certain our case with SCCS :) - in fact being a developer it is very tempting for me to try this solution with your server... But let's SCRUM team members decide by themselves? - please Gustav, Mike, John and Doug - based on tempting proposal of our respectful ProductOwner Mark would you like to start development next week with trying to setup SCC provided there will be first version of the source solution already there on our SCC Server? (I will try to put it there over weekend...) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:17:38 +0000 Subject: Fwd: to test > Hello All, > > Having just read the responses from all my first comment is absolutely OK, I > am product owner role in this project and as as such will try to adhere to just > that role. > > However, let me tell you that since I sent my first email this morning about > source control, I did some work before I read the additional emails that are > leaning torwards not using SCCS, so I will report here on that work, and > then the team can decide what they want to do. > > Shamil, I stress again here I am not attempting to push my opinions about > source control, just offering you the choice here, as I have already done a > little work on it today. > > I played with codeplex but found it terribly slow and eventually I did not > get it to work for me, I then googled the errors I was getting and saw other > had the same errors. > > ========== > I have created a subversion server so if you want to use it, you must do the > following four steps > > 1) download and install TortiseSVN from the following URL > http://tortoisesvn.net/downloads obviously choose the windows version you > need 32 bit probably. > (should finish in less than five mins, you do not need to reboot) > > > 2) create a folder on your PC where you would like the source code to be > stored and saved for you to work on. This will be the main working folder > you will use when running VS2008 > eg c:\scrum code\ > or > c:\my documents\Visual Studio 2005 > (should be very quick) > > > 3) right click on the new folder and go to your new context sensitive menu > item tortise SVN and then from the submenu, click "create repository here". > See the attached JPG. You will receive a msg box with the message, The > repository was successfully created. > (should also take just 30 seconds) > > last step > 4) You just need to do a check out, from the server, once, to allow the > client to know the address and authentication details, remember to click the > check box to "remember the authentication details" > again see the second jpg that I have attached to this email. The jpg has > two steps including in one picture. > > the url that you need is > > https://www.sjai.org:8443/svn/scrum01 > once you say OK, you can accept the suggestion to create a new folder and > then you will be prompted for your username and password > the users I have created are as follows > > username password > -------- -------- > shamil shamil09 > john john09 > mike mike09 > doug doub09 > gustav gustav09 > > > When you check out, you should receive one text file, I created this > afternoon named test.txt Feel free to update it with your name and anything > else you feel like, or create a few new files and commit them to our > respository. > > We can create new projects when we need to, but we may be happy with keeping > it simple for this project. > > I have tested this server here in Ireland with the big .bak file that Shamil > sent and it works well, if you want to try uploading a larger file, feel > free. > > Finally, these steps are all working here, so if you one person would like > to check that they work for you also, before the entire team spends time on > it, it would be better. > > let me add that if you have use source control, you will know that it is > really easy to work with and > > thanks > > Mark > > > > > > > > 2009/3/18 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > OK, Gustav, I agree, > > Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. > > CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: > > > http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home > > but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or > other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and > we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog > PlanningGame... > > > Hi Shamil > > > > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to > require some effort to set up and test. > > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the > Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: > > > > > http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we > all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR > can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those > utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS > this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with > upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via > .bat files... > > > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if > Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some > files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use > them? > > > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code > well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > in it to share... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Mark > > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (creating a repository locally.JPG) > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (checking out for the first time.JPG) > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 13:11:23 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:11:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: to test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C1394B.5060801@gmail.com> I am very interested in source control, always have been. I have never done it (though I have tried) simply because it didn't work and I had no one to fall back on for answers. I will certainly give Mark's instructions a shot and see what I see. I look at this as an additional tool in my box completely outside of this scrum project. Thanks Mark for researching this and setting it up. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you, Mark, > > This is good news. > This is good that you made a proposal, and then came with a constructive solution very promptly :) > It's very much appreciated! > > Still I'd not force SCRUM team members to use this solution from the very beginning if they only do not want to try it by themselves: one of the main SCRUMMaster's roles AFAIG is to "shield" team members from any impediments coming from outside, especially from ProductOwner :) > > Well, I'm a kind of kidding for this certain our case with SCCS :) - in fact being a developer it is very tempting for me to try this solution with your server... > > But let's SCRUM team members decide by themselves? - please Gustav, Mike, John and Doug - based on tempting proposal of our respectful ProductOwner Mark would you like to start development next week with trying to setup SCC provided there will be first version of the source solution already there on our SCC Server? (I will try to put it there over weekend...) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Breen > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:17:38 +0000 > Subject: Fwd: to test > > >> Hello All, >> >> Having just read the responses from all my first comment is absolutely OK, I >> am product owner role in this project and as as such will try to adhere to just >> that role. >> >> However, let me tell you that since I sent my first email this morning about >> source control, I did some work before I read the additional emails that are >> leaning torwards not using SCCS, so I will report here on that work, and >> then the team can decide what they want to do. >> >> Shamil, I stress again here I am not attempting to push my opinions about >> source control, just offering you the choice here, as I have already done a >> little work on it today. >> >> I played with codeplex but found it terribly slow and eventually I did not >> get it to work for me, I then googled the errors I was getting and saw other >> had the same errors. >> >> ========== >> I have created a subversion server so if you want to use it, you must do the >> following four steps >> >> 1) download and install TortiseSVN from the following URL >> http://tortoisesvn.net/downloads obviously choose the windows version you >> need 32 bit probably. >> (should finish in less than five mins, you do not need to reboot) >> >> >> 2) create a folder on your PC where you would like the source code to be >> stored and saved for you to work on. This will be the main working folder >> you will use when running VS2008 >> eg c:\scrum code\ >> or >> c:\my documents\Visual Studio 2005 >> (should be very quick) >> >> >> 3) right click on the new folder and go to your new context sensitive menu >> item tortise SVN and then from the submenu, click "create repository here". >> See the attached JPG. You will receive a msg box with the message, The >> repository was successfully created. >> (should also take just 30 seconds) >> >> last step >> 4) You just need to do a check out, from the server, once, to allow the >> client to know the address and authentication details, remember to click the >> check box to "remember the authentication details" >> again see the second jpg that I have attached to this email. The jpg has >> two steps including in one picture. >> >> the url that you need is >> >> https://www.sjai.org:8443/svn/scrum01 >> once you say OK, you can accept the suggestion to create a new folder and >> then you will be prompted for your username and password >> the users I have created are as follows >> >> username password >> -------- -------- >> shamil shamil09 >> john john09 >> mike mike09 >> doug doub09 >> gustav gustav09 >> >> >> When you check out, you should receive one text file, I created this >> afternoon named test.txt Feel free to update it with your name and anything >> else you feel like, or create a few new files and commit them to our >> respository. >> >> We can create new projects when we need to, but we may be happy with keeping >> it simple for this project. >> >> I have tested this server here in Ireland with the big .bak file that Shamil >> sent and it works well, if you want to try uploading a larger file, feel >> free. >> >> Finally, these steps are all working here, so if you one person would like >> to check that they work for you also, before the entire team spends time on >> it, it would be better. >> >> let me add that if you have use source control, you will know that it is >> really easy to work with and >> >> thanks >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2009/3/18 Salakhetdinov Shamil >> >> OK, Gustav, I agree, >> >> Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. >> >> CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: >> >> >> http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home >> >> but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or >> other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and >> we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Gustav Brock" >> To: >> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog >> PlanningGame... >> >> > Hi Shamil >> > >> > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to >> require some effort to set up and test. >> > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the >> Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: >> > >> > >> http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS >> > >> > /gustav >> > >> > >> > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> >> > >> > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> > >> > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we >> all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR >> can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those >> utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS >> this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with >> upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via >> .bat files... >> > >> > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if >> Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some >> files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use >> them? >> > >> > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code >> well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files >> in it to share... >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mark >> >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (creating a repository locally.JPG) >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (checking out for the first time.JPG) >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 13:13:34 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:13:34 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: to test - SCRUM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C139CE.1070000@gmail.com> I would ask that all members try to place the work SCRUM in the subject so that my filters can pick up all messages and place them in the right email box. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you, Mark, > > This is good news. > This is good that you made a proposal, and then came with a constructive solution very promptly :) > It's very much appreciated! > > Still I'd not force SCRUM team members to use this solution from the very beginning if they only do not want to try it by themselves: one of the main SCRUMMaster's roles AFAIG is to "shield" team members from any impediments coming from outside, especially from ProductOwner :) > > Well, I'm a kind of kidding for this certain our case with SCCS :) - in fact being a developer it is very tempting for me to try this solution with your server... > > But let's SCRUM team members decide by themselves? - please Gustav, Mike, John and Doug - based on tempting proposal of our respectful ProductOwner Mark would you like to start development next week with trying to setup SCC provided there will be first version of the source solution already there on our SCC Server? (I will try to put it there over weekend...) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Breen > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:17:38 +0000 > Subject: Fwd: to test > > >> Hello All, >> >> Having just read the responses from all my first comment is absolutely OK, I >> am product owner role in this project and as as such will try to adhere to just >> that role. >> >> However, let me tell you that since I sent my first email this morning about >> source control, I did some work before I read the additional emails that are >> leaning torwards not using SCCS, so I will report here on that work, and >> then the team can decide what they want to do. >> >> Shamil, I stress again here I am not attempting to push my opinions about >> source control, just offering you the choice here, as I have already done a >> little work on it today. >> >> I played with codeplex but found it terribly slow and eventually I did not >> get it to work for me, I then googled the errors I was getting and saw other >> had the same errors. >> >> ========== >> I have created a subversion server so if you want to use it, you must do the >> following four steps >> >> 1) download and install TortiseSVN from the following URL >> http://tortoisesvn.net/downloads obviously choose the windows version you >> need 32 bit probably. >> (should finish in less than five mins, you do not need to reboot) >> >> >> 2) create a folder on your PC where you would like the source code to be >> stored and saved for you to work on. This will be the main working folder >> you will use when running VS2008 >> eg c:\scrum code\ >> or >> c:\my documents\Visual Studio 2005 >> (should be very quick) >> >> >> 3) right click on the new folder and go to your new context sensitive menu >> item tortise SVN and then from the submenu, click "create repository here". >> See the attached JPG. You will receive a msg box with the message, The >> repository was successfully created. >> (should also take just 30 seconds) >> >> last step >> 4) You just need to do a check out, from the server, once, to allow the >> client to know the address and authentication details, remember to click the >> check box to "remember the authentication details" >> again see the second jpg that I have attached to this email. The jpg has >> two steps including in one picture. >> >> the url that you need is >> >> https://www.sjai.org:8443/svn/scrum01 >> once you say OK, you can accept the suggestion to create a new folder and >> then you will be prompted for your username and password >> the users I have created are as follows >> >> username password >> -------- -------- >> shamil shamil09 >> john john09 >> mike mike09 >> doug doub09 >> gustav gustav09 >> >> >> When you check out, you should receive one text file, I created this >> afternoon named test.txt Feel free to update it with your name and anything >> else you feel like, or create a few new files and commit them to our >> respository. >> >> We can create new projects when we need to, but we may be happy with keeping >> it simple for this project. >> >> I have tested this server here in Ireland with the big .bak file that Shamil >> sent and it works well, if you want to try uploading a larger file, feel >> free. >> >> Finally, these steps are all working here, so if you one person would like >> to check that they work for you also, before the entire team spends time on >> it, it would be better. >> >> let me add that if you have use source control, you will know that it is >> really easy to work with and >> >> thanks >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2009/3/18 Salakhetdinov Shamil >> >> OK, Gustav, I agree, >> >> Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. >> >> CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: >> >> >> http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home >> >> but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or >> other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and >> we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Gustav Brock" >> To: >> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog >> PlanningGame... >> >> > Hi Shamil >> > >> > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to >> require some effort to set up and test. >> > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the >> Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: >> > >> > >> http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS >> > >> > /gustav >> > >> > >> > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> >> > >> > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> > >> > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we >> all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR >> can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those >> utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS >> this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with >> upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via >> .bat files... >> > >> > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if >> Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some >> files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use >> them? >> > >> > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code >> well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files >> in it to share... >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mark >> >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (creating a repository locally.JPG) >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (checking out for the first time.JPG) >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 13:47:36 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:47:36 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team members, Still no e-mail with estimations from Doug. I have asked him today again to make the estimation worksheet and to send it to me for me to make and to publish combined worksheet. Let's wait for today, and if the estimations from Doug will not come we can start discussion based on our estimations and then Doug will join us? Thank you. -- Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W Colby > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning > Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > > > That sounds good to me also. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John > and myself. > > > > > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed > me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not > have time to make his estimations. > > > > > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to > come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this > project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but > taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for > experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly > design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as > shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's > SkyDrive). > > > > > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > > > > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application > in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that > done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > > > > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > estimations here - is that OK with you? > > > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore > there is some work to do in coordinating them. > > > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > > issues." > > > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > > > > > > > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > > >> > > >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > > >> I have made mine over weekend. > > >> > > >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come > today then I will immediately post all of them here to start > coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with > them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to > plan implementation/release... > > >> > > >> Thank you. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Shamil > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > >> To: dba-VB > > >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > > >> > > >> > > >>> Hi SCRUM Team, > > >>> > > >>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > values: > > >>> > > >>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > >>> > > >>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT > gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to > use them on the next estimation round. > > >>> > > >>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to > > >>> make first round estimantions as independent as possible - > > >>> http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > >>> > > >>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - > > >>> just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's > > >>> unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented > > >>> (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct > > >>> correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do > > > >>> here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer > > > >>> - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > >>> > > >>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > >>> > > >>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks > like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > >>> > > >>> Please ask your questions. > > >>> Please make your estimations. > > >>> > > >>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > >>> > > >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.D > > >>> ocuments/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > >>> > > >>> or here: > > >>> > > >>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > > >>> (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=S > > >>> CRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Thank you. > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Shamil > > >>> > > >>> P.S. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> FORMS > > >>> ===== > > >>> > > >>> 1 Categories > > >>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > >>> 3 Customer Orders > > >>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > >>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > >>> 6 Customer Phone List > > >>> 7 Customers => 2 > > >>> 8 Employees => 5 > > >>> 9 Main Switchboard > > >>> 10 Orders > > >>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > >>> 12 Product List > > >>> 13 Products > > >>> 14 Quarterly Orders > > >>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > >>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > >>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > >>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > >>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > >>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > >>> 21 Startup > > >>> 22 Suppliers > > >>> > > >>> REPORTS > > >>> ======= > > >>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > >>> 2 Catalog > > >>> 3 Catalog Subreport > > >>> 4 Customer Labels > > >>> 5 Employee Sales by Country > > >>> 6 Invoice => 5 > > >>> 7 Products by Category > > >>> 8 Sales by Category > > >>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > >>> 10 Sales by Year > > >>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > >>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > >>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > >>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> dba-VB mailing list > > >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> dba-VB mailing list > > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 14:36:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:36:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team members, I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:47:36 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > Hi SCRUM team members, > > Still no e-mail with estimations from Doug. > I have asked him today again to make the estimation worksheet and to send it to me for me to make and to publish combined worksheet. > > Let's wait for today, and if the estimations from Doug will not come we can start discussion based on our estimations and then Doug will join us? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W Colby > > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning > > Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > > > That sounds good to me also. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > > > > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John > > and myself. > > > > > > > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed > > me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not > > have time to make his estimations. > > > > > > > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to > > come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this > > project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but > > taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for > > experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly > > design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as > > shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's > > SkyDrive). > > > > > > > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > > > > > > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application > > in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that > > done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > > > > > > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > > estimations here - is that OK with you? > > > > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore > > there is some work to do in coordinating them. > > > > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > > > issues." > > > > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > >> > > > >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > > > >> I have made mine over weekend. > > > >> > > > >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come > > today then I will immediately post all of them here to start > > coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with > > them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to > > plan implementation/release... > > > >> > > > >> Thank you. > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Shamil > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > >> To: dba-VB > > > >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > > > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> Hi SCRUM Team, > > > >>> > > > >>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > > values: > > > >>> > > > >>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > >>> > > > >>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT > > gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to > > use them on the next estimation round. > > > >>> > > > >>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to > > > >>> make first round estimantions as independent as possible - > > > >>> http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > > >>> > > > >>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - > > > >>> just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's > > > >>> unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented > > > >>> (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct > > > >>> correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do > > > > > >>> here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer > > > > > >>> - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > > >>> > > > >>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > > >>> > > > >>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks > > like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > > >>> > > > >>> Please ask your questions. > > > >>> Please make your estimations. > > > >>> > > > >>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > > >>> > > > >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.D > > > >>> ocuments/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > > >>> > > > >>> or here: > > > >>> > > > >>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > > > >>> (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=S > > > >>> CRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Thank you. > > > >>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Shamil > > > >>> > > > >>> P.S. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> FORMS > > > >>> ===== > > > >>> > > > >>> 1 Categories > > > >>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > > >>> 3 Customer Orders > > > >>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > > >>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > > >>> 6 Customer Phone List > > > >>> 7 Customers => 2 > > > >>> 8 Employees => 5 > > > >>> 9 Main Switchboard > > > >>> 10 Orders > > > >>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > > >>> 12 Product List > > > >>> 13 Products > > > >>> 14 Quarterly Orders > > > >>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > > >>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > > >>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > > >>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > > >>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > > >>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > > >>> 21 Startup > > > >>> 22 Suppliers > > > >>> > > > >>> REPORTS > > > >>> ======= > > > >>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > > >>> 2 Catalog > > > >>> 3 Catalog Subreport > > > >>> 4 Customer Labels > > > >>> 5 Employee Sales by Country > > > >>> 6 Invoice => 5 > > > >>> 7 Products by Category > > > >>> 8 Sales by Category > > > >>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > > >>> 10 Sales by Year > > > >>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > > >>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > > >>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > > >>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > > >>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> dba-VB mailing list > > > >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> dba-VB mailing list > > > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 15:15:00 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:15:00 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C15644.3050803@gmail.com> Shamil, I receive "item seems to be missing" from the first link. I got it off the second link. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:47:36 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > >> Hi SCRUM team members, >> >> Still no e-mail with estimations from Doug. >> I have asked him today again to make the estimation worksheet and to send it to me for me to make and to publish combined worksheet. >> >> Let's wait for today, and if the estimations from Doug will not come we can start discussion based on our estimations and then Doug will join us? >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: John W Colby >>> To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning >>> Visual Basic and related programming issues." >>> >>> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >>> Game... >>> >>> >>>> That sounds good to me also. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi SCRUM team at all, >>>>> >>>>> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John >>>>> >>> and myself. >>> >>>>> I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed >>>>> >>> me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not >>> have time to make his estimations. >>> >>>>> What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to >>>>> >>> come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this >>> project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but >>> taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for >>> experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly >>> design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as >>> shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's >>> SkyDrive). >>> >>>>> I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting >>>>> >>> mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members >>> beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any >>> NorthWind .NET form or report... >>> >>>>> I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application >>>>> >>> in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that >>> done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... >>> >>>>> When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our >>>>> >>> estimations here - is that OK with you? >>> >>>>> I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore >>>>> >>> there is some work to do in coordinating them. >>> >>>>> In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial >>>>> >>> planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week >>> discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but >>> discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related >>> issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? >>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >>>>> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >>>>> issues." >>>>> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 >>>>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >>>>> >>> Game... >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi SCRUM team at all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >>>>>> I have made mine over weekend. >>>>>> >>>>>> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come >>>>>> >>> today then I will immediately post all of them here to start >>> coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with >>> them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to >>> plan implementation/release... >>> >>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Shamil >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >>>>>> To: dba-VB >>>>>> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >>>>>> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >>>>>> >>> Game... >>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi SCRUM Team, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product >>>>>>> >>> backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following >>> values: >>> >>>>>>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT >>>>>>> >>> gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to >>> use them on the next estimation round. >>> >>>>>>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to >>>>>>> make first round estimantions as independent as possible - >>>>>>> http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - >>>>>>> just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's >>>>>>> unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented >>>>>>> (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct >>>>>>> correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do >>>>>>> >>>>>>> here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in >>>>>>> >>> WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >>> >>>>>>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks >>>>>>> >>> like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >>> >>>>>>> Please ask your questions. >>>>>>> Please make your estimations. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.D >>>>>>> ocuments/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> or here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html >>>>>>> (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=S >>>>>>> CRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Shamil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> P.S. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> FORMS >>>>>>> ===== >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1 Categories >>>>>>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >>>>>>> 3 Customer Orders >>>>>>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >>>>>>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >>>>>>> 6 Customer Phone List >>>>>>> 7 Customers => 2 >>>>>>> 8 Employees => 5 >>>>>>> 9 Main Switchboard >>>>>>> 10 Orders >>>>>>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 >>>>>>> 12 Product List >>>>>>> 13 Products >>>>>>> 14 Quarterly Orders >>>>>>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >>>>>>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >>>>>>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >>>>>>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >>>>>>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog >>>>>>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog >>>>>>> 21 Startup >>>>>>> 22 Suppliers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> REPORTS >>>>>>> ======= >>>>>>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >>>>>>> 2 Catalog >>>>>>> 3 Catalog Subreport >>>>>>> 4 Customer Labels >>>>>>> 5 Employee Sales by Country >>>>>>> 6 Invoice => 5 >>>>>>> 7 Products by Category >>>>>>> 8 Sales by Category >>>>>>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport >>>>>>> 10 Sales by Year >>>>>>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport >>>>>>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount >>>>>>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >>>>>>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> dba-VB mailing list >>>>>>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>>>>>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> dba-VB mailing list >>>>>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>>>>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> dba-VB mailing list >>>>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>>>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 18 15:56:52 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... References: Message-ID: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> I've got it, thanks. I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, if called upon to do so! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with > all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not > have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation > numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original > plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend > rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > up&running. > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please > post your considerations. > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes > several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number > of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they > will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 16:39:49 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:39:49 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> I'm a little surprised at the high estimates myself. I was told to estimate times similar to doing it in Access and it would never take more than a few minutes to set up simple subforms for example. I estimated .5 hours for most of the subforms but everyone else estimates an hour or even more. Of course my estimates are not based on actual form dev work in .Net since I have none. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mike Mattys wrote: > I've got it, thanks. > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > if called upon to do so! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 18 16:46:19 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:46:19 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> Message-ID: Trust me, John, it can go either way. Depends largely on how you handle the data population. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:40 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... I'm a little surprised at the high estimates myself. I was told to estimate times similar to doing it in Access and it would never take more than a few minutes to set up simple subforms for example. I estimated .5 hours for most of the subforms but everyone else estimates an hour or even more. Of course my estimates are not based on actual form dev work in .Net since I have none. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mike Mattys wrote: > I've got it, thanks. > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, if called upon > to do so! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 19 01:50:58 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:50:58 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... Message-ID: Hi Shamil This is fine for me. The reason for my high estimates is that I probably spend more time on design as sloppy design for most clients and users indicates a sloppy application. Also, I've found that even when a task seems to be fast to get finished, you (I) often spend some time on evaluation of alternative methods - as Charlotte has mentioned multiple times, you often find that a task can be done in multiple ways. For this project where design is bound I may, however, have been too pessimistic. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 18-03-2009 20:36 >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 13:43:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:43:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNDUlVNOiBOb3J0aHdpbmQgLk5FVFBy?= =?koi8-r?b?b2R1Y3QJQmFja0xvZ1BsYW5uaW5nIEdhbWUuLi4=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, That's OK. Yes, I'd propose to use in this reports forms and reports bound to strongly typed datasets - this approach will let us to concentrate on designs and to have a a little coding - good for our team as we have members who are only startings developing in .NET but they have good experience with MS Access, and designing of .NET bound forms and reports should be relatively easuy for them to start with... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:50:58 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NETProduct BackLogPlanning Game... > Hi Shamil > > This is fine for me. > > The reason for my high estimates is that I probably spend more time on design as sloppy design for most clients and users indicates a sloppy application. Also, I've found that even when a task seems to be fast to get finished, you (I) often spend some time on evaluation of alternative methods - as Charlotte has mentioned multiple times, you often find that a task can be done in multiple ways. For this project where design is bound I may, however, have been too pessimistic. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 18-03-2009 20:36 >>> > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 13:52:44 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:52:44 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNDUlVNOiBOb3J0aHdpbmQgLk5FVFBy?= =?koi8-r?b?b2R1Y3QJQmFja0xvZ1BsYW5uaW5nIEdhbWUuLi4=?= In-Reply-To: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> References: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi John, First of all I'd note you seems to be very quick with MS Access forms and reports design :) We will try to fit your estimations but I'd propose we'd better have almost twice more time planned for this project (as AVG valu currently gives) to not make this project stressful - just fun of teamwork development. Yes, developing bound to datasets .NET WinForms and reports is similar in my opinion to manual design of bound MS Access forms/reports I'd even think that VS forms' layout design features (placing controls, alighing them etc.) is more powerful that in MS Access but you and Mike and Doug will still need time to adapt to all that features - hence better have as twice time as in our estimation... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: John W Colby To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:39:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NETProduct BackLogPlanning Game... > I'm a little surprised at the high estimates myself. I was told to > estimate times similar to doing it in Access and it would never take > more than a few minutes to set up simple subforms for example. I > estimated .5 hours for most of the subforms but everyone else estimates > an hour or even more. > > Of course my estimates are not based on actual form dev work in .Net > since I have none. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Mike Mattys wrote: > > I've got it, thanks. > > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > > if called upon to do so! > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 13:57:40 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:57:40 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > I've got it, thanks. > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > if called upon to do so! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning > Game... > > > > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with > > all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not > > have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > > estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation > > numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original > > plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend > > rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > > up&running. > > > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please > > post your considerations. > > > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes > > several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number > > of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they > > will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 19 14:18:21 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:18:21 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> Do I mean ...? :) Actually, I've never used it before so I wouldn't venture any such guesses. Lead on, Shamil, I'll try to follow. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > Hi Mike, > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) > should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - > which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then > we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 14:34:27 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:34:27 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> References: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you, Mike. If every SCRUM member agree I can pass the current set of estimations to ProductOwner for him to propose in what sequence he wanted to get forms and reports developed. OK? Also we will have to discuss (next week or later) what should be actual navigation between forms and reports as in the source MS Access NorthWind application not all forms and reports are available to be opened while navigating this sample MS Access application. For starters I'd just create an additional "fake switchboard" form to have all the other forms and reports available to be opened from this "fake switchboard". Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:18:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > Do I mean ...? :) > > Actually, I've never used it before > so I wouldn't venture any such guesses. > > Lead on, Shamil, I'll try to follow. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:57 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning > Game... > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) > > should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - > > which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then > > we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > From jwcolby at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 15:03:44 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:03:44 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C2A520.4010105@gmail.com> Agreed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you, Mike. > > If every SCRUM member agree I can pass the current set of estimations to ProductOwner for him to propose in what sequence he wanted to get forms and reports developed. OK? > > Also we will have to discuss (next week or later) what should be actual navigation between forms and reports as in the source MS Access NorthWind application not all forms and reports are available to be opened while navigating this sample MS Access application. For starters I'd just create an additional "fake switchboard" form to have all the other forms and reports available to be opened from this "fake switchboard". > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:18:21 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > >> Do I mean ...? :) >> >> Actually, I've never used it before >> so I wouldn't venture any such guesses. >> >> Lead on, Shamil, I'll try to follow. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:57 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning >> Game... >> >> >> >>> Hi Mike, >>> >>> Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) >>> should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - >>> which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then >>> we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 15:05:00 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > >> I've got it, thanks. >> I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, >> if called upon to do so! >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning >> Game... >> >> >> >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, >>> >>> I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with >>> all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: >>> >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 >>> >>> Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not >>> have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) >>> >>> In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all >>> estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation >>> numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >>> >>> The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original >>> plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. >>> Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. >>> >>> If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend >>> rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control >>> up&running. >>> >>> If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please >>> post your considerations. >>> >>> Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes >>> several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number >>> of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. >>> >>> Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they >>> will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... >>> >>> I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: >>> >>> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 16:54:45 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:54:45 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmdHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi John, When we talked originally on this project it was planned to do it in one month with every team member spending not more than one hour within a working day, which totals to 20-22 hours per member per month - approx. 100 hours for 5 team members. (Note: anybody can spend that five hours within one day within a week if they have free time or split them within two days etc. but it's important to have equal amount of total time spent every week - important for planning/predictability etc. - to calculate team velocity...) If we will not fit 100 hours max value some of the ProductBackLog items will be left undone - then ProductOwner can decide shall there be a follow-up or not - this is how SCRUM process handles ProductBackLog items based on realistic approach/assumption/real life experience that if project time frame was underestimated then there should be some ProductBackLog items left undone: SCRUM team shouldn't work extra hours (for free) etc. to get all the work done... Yes, that may sound idealistic on first glance but the more projects a team completes the more precise their estimations become, and the more trust is created between team + SCRUMMaster and ProductOwner + StakeHolders/Users - the latter know/trust that SCRUM team does their best... Somehere in the middle when it will be more clear how well we perform (or earlier or later) ProductOwner could rearrange ProductBackLog items implementation sequence to have as much as possible and the most required items done within given (left) time frame (and budget in real life case)... Maybe I'm too optimistic but I currently suppose we should make all the forms/reports in less than 100 hours... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: John W Colby To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... > Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total > value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle > that. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > > > > >> I've got it, thanks. > >> I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > >> if called upon to do so! > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning > >> Game... > >> > >> > >> > >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, > >>> > >>> I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with > >>> all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > >>> > >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > >>> > >>> Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not > >>> have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > >>> > >>> In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > >>> estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation > >>> numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > >>> > >>> The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original > >>> plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > >>> Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > >>> > >>> If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend > >>> rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > >>> up&running. > >>> > >>> If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please > >>> post your considerations. > >>> > >>> Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes > >>> several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number > >>> of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > >>> > >>> Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they > >>> will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > >>> > >>> I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > >>> > >>> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Shamil > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 17:57:05 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:57:05 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... In-Reply-To: References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49C2CDC1.3060209@gmail.com> Understood. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John, > > When we talked originally on this project it was planned to do it in one month with every team member spending not more than one hour within a working day, which totals to 20-22 hours per member per month - approx. 100 hours for 5 team members. (Note: anybody can spend that five hours within one day within a week if they have free time or split them within two days etc. but it's important to have equal amount of total time spent every week - important for planning/predictability etc. - to calculate team velocity...) > > If we will not fit 100 hours max value some of the ProductBackLog items will be left undone - then ProductOwner can decide shall there be a follow-up or not - this is how SCRUM process handles ProductBackLog items based on realistic approach/assumption/real life experience that if project time frame was underestimated then there should be some ProductBackLog items left undone: SCRUM team shouldn't work extra hours (for free) etc. to get all the work done... > > Yes, that may sound idealistic on first glance but the more projects a team completes the more precise their estimations become, and the more trust is created between team + SCRUMMaster and ProductOwner + StakeHolders/Users - the latter know/trust that SCRUM team does their best... > > Somehere in the middle when it will be more clear how well we perform (or earlier or later) ProductOwner could rearrange ProductBackLog items implementation sequence to have as much as possible and the most required items done within given (left) time frame (and budget in real life case)... > > Maybe I'm too optimistic but I currently suppose we should make all the forms/reports in less than 100 hours... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W Colby > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... > > >> Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total >> value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle >> that. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> > From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 19 21:01:47 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:01:47 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Has it been decided to move this back to AccessD? I have seen a lot of traffic on this subject on that list. I need to filter these messages to a specific folder so I don't loose them. When there is a lot of traffic on the D list I tend to group and do bulk deletes on items. Doug From marklbreen at gmail.com Fri Mar 20 04:41:31 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:41:31 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... In-Reply-To: References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Shamil, I have one or two questions on scrum techniques. In the estimates, the product owner has to make some judgement calls on which items to drop, and which items to include. Or let me phrase that better, the product owner has to prioritise his importance of the items, in the hope that he receives all, but if he does not, then he must decide which items to exclude. Background of question first My personal instinct, and the behavior of most people I know will be to seek some additional information from the 'supplier' as to why feature a takes one hour and feature b takes 5 hours. I would expect that most people would assume that this background information assists them in their decision process, as they are making it from a position of knowledge. Also, as a product owner in this case, I imagine that there is a certain element of risk / gambling on the product owners behalf, i.e. do I place this feature (a 5 hour estimate) at the top of the list, and guarantee its delivery, or do I drop it down the list, and guarantee five other (1 hour) features. My instinct at this point is that most people will desire a little background on the justifications for why one item is one hour and one item is five hours. Now the question to our ScrumMaster In this new world, is the above appropriate thinking on behalf of the product owner. Do I / should I re-program my brain to accept blindly the estimates and focus only on what is important as a delivered feature and NOT on why feature A takes five times the time to produce feature B. If I take this blind leap of faith, will I eventually produce more accurate views on what is important to my business? i.e. should the product owner keep their nose out of the programmers area and stick to being product owner. Question 2 In a larger project than this one, but even in this small project there are synergies, IOW, the work to produce the suppliers form, may be identical to the work to produce the categories form. Should the product owner know there there is some virtual grouping here? Or once again, should he keep his dirty nose out of these types of concepts. I think you answer will be yes, he should keep his nose out and leave that to the scrum team. Question 3 When are we ready for me to prioritise the list 2009/3/19 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi John, > > When we talked originally on this project it was planned to do it in one > month with every team member spending not more than one hour within a > working day, which totals to 20-22 hours per member per month - approx. 100 > hours for 5 team members. (Note: anybody can spend that five hours within > one day within a week if they have free time or split them within two days > etc. but it's important to have equal amount of total time spent every week > - important for planning/predictability etc. - to calculate team > velocity...) > > If we will not fit 100 hours max value some of the ProductBackLog items > will be left undone - then ProductOwner can decide shall there be a > follow-up or not - this is how SCRUM process handles ProductBackLog items > based on realistic approach/assumption/real life experience that if project > time frame was underestimated then there should be some ProductBackLog items > left undone: SCRUM team shouldn't work extra hours (for free) etc. to get > all the work done... > > Yes, that may sound idealistic on first glance but the more projects a team > completes the more precise their estimations become, and the more trust is > created between team + SCRUMMaster and ProductOwner + StakeHolders/Users - > the latter know/trust that SCRUM team does their best... > > Somehere in the middle when it will be more clear how well we perform (or > earlier or later) ProductOwner could rearrange ProductBackLog items > implementation sequence to have as much as possible and the most required > items done within given (left) time frame (and budget in real life case)... > > Maybe I'm too optimistic but I currently suppose we should make all the > forms/reports in less than 100 hours... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W Colby > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product > BackLogPlanningGame... > > > Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total > > value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle > > that. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) > should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - > which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we > will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning > Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product > BackLogPlanning Game... > > > > > > > > >> I've got it, thanks. > > >> I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > > >> if called upon to do so! > > >> > > >> - > > >> Michael R Mattys > > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > >> - > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > > >> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product > BackLogPlanning > > >> Game... > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, > > >>> > > >>> I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook > with > > >>> all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > >>> > > >>> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > >>> > > >>> Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do > not > > >>> have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > >>> > > >>> In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > > >>> estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM > evaluation > > >>> numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > >>> > > >>> The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our > original > > >>> plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > > >>> Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > >>> > > >>> If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and > spend > > >>> rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > > >>> up&running. > > >>> > > >>> If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - > please > > >>> post your considerations. > > >>> > > >>> Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually > takes > > >>> several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total > number > > >>> of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > >>> > > >>> Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever > they > > >>> will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > >>> > > >>> I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > >>> > > >>> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > >>> > > >>> Thank you. > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Shamil > > >>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 20 10:14:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:14:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNDUlVNOiBOb3J0aHdpbmQgLk5FVCBQ?= =?koi8-r?b?cm9kdWN0IEJhY2tMb2dQbGFubmluZ0dhbWUuLi4=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark and SCRUM Team Members, Thank you for your questions Mark. Here are my answers: Question 1: Yes. Question 2: Yes :) Question 3: I think we're ready now - please use http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip to split ProductBackLog into 3 SCRUM Sprints: 1st: 43 "evaluation points" long (2 weeks) 2nd: 22 "evaluation points" long (1 week) 2nd: 22 "evaluation points" long (1 week) (in reality that Sprint planning is more through procedure but let's try to make it light here this time and see how it will work) Please feel free to skip the following lengthy explanations and maybe just read the referenced in P.S. SCRUM methodology stuff. According to my current understanding of SCRUM practices ProductOwner can't communicate directly with team on issues why this or that ProductBackLog position "weights" this or that much. I'm giving references on the SCRUM methodologies' entries below for you and our SCRUM team members to check my understanding. Please read them (they are in total words not much longer than your e-mail), and I think then you will be able to answer your questions by yourself. If not, please ask them again or ask the new ones if needed - and we will try to come to the common ground - SCRUM isn't a "new religion" but a constantly improving methodologies/practice of agile software development... I must say I was not very strictly following SCRUM methodology proposing to the team members to evaluate ProductBackLog items in "ideal hours" - "ideal hour" term is from XP/agile but in SCRUM ProductBackLog items are estimated using abstract "measuring units": one can use "kilograms", another one "pounds", third one "liters" etc. I asked to use "ideal hours" to just "get it(estimation) done" as quick as possible because everybody usually estimate possible workload in time measuring units: hours, days, months... We need something for starters - later on when we will have some statistics on our performance (SCRUM team velocity) we will be able to estimate using more abstract "estimation points"... If everybody interested I can "open my secret" how I did estimate our project BackLogItems - I can say now that this estimation wasn't using directly time related measurement units IOW it could have been wrong in many positions: as you can see my estimation was rather close to Mike's one and is about 20% lower than average we plan to use (as everybody agreed?) as our max time frame. I just wanted to tell that if we estimate now that FormA "weights" 3 "ideal hours" or "kilograms" and FormB "weights" 1 "ideal hour" or "kilogram" then when they will be implemented it may happen that it was spent 1 real hour (or half an hour) to develop FormA and 3 (or 3.5) "real hours" (or "kilograms" of bananas eaten while developing this form?) but they were *done* within one SCRUM sprint, and this means (if nothing else was done) that SCCUM team velocity is 4 ProductBackLog "points" per SCRUM sprint (SCRUM sprint usually takes 1 to 4 weeks). Using that statistics we can plan the next SCRUM sprint (usually statistics for the last 5-8 Sprints are used during next Sprint planning, or statistics of the less "speedy" Sprint, most "speedy" Sprint and one from the "middle speed" for the last 5-8 Sprints... Am I clear enough about this SCRUM evaluation and Sprints planning? If not please ask more questions and I will try to answer them by myself and by giving some more references to read. I must say this is the first time I'm explaining/trying to explain that subject here - IOW we all are learning by doing here now. I have seen how it works in practice but that weren't software projects we used to implement during CSM course. But my SCRUM Trainer used similar SCRUM practices with SCRUM Teams in BusinessWeek and Yahoo and they worked well for them... I'd also propose for us to have 3 SCRUM Sprints during the coming month: 1. 2 weeks long 2. 1 week long 3. 1 week long And I'd suppose/expect that first 2 weeks long SCRUM Sprint should be considered a success if we will make as many "evaluation points" during it as we will do during the shorter 2nd and 3rd one... When you will read the referenced below short articles on SCRUM Sprint planning you will find that ProductOwner communicates with the team while getting to be developed items into next Sprint area/plan and asking team can it be done within that Sprint or not - team can agree/commit to do it or can reject but ProductOwner can't "push" on team and ask why they think they can't do that item if it "weights" say X "ideal hours" and there is still a room in the next Sprint for that item to be done. Here is where SCRUMMaster should take his facilitating role/position to negotiate such ProductBackLog positions with team but without the presence of ProductOwner... All in all ProductOwner does and should communicate very closely with the SCRUM team and he/she has the whole picture of the project progress as in real life case team velocity is measured and published every day based on completed (DONE) Sprint items. But ProductOwner is "forbidden" to push the team, to ask "provocative" questions, to change Sprint items during the started Sprint etc. - this is how I understand these SCRUM practices... I should also note that in real life ProductBackLog items are also getting split into tasks during Sprint planning phase - we're not doing that split now because of our distributed in time mainly offline way of working, and because most of ProductBackLog items beeing rather clear to everybody... And I should also note/underline that SCRUM team velocity is measured only using "Done" (accepted) ProductBackLog positions - if a position is 99.99% "done" it isn't used in calculating SCRUM Team velocity... Mark, knowing your ability to summarize very well I expect you will come here at dba-VB with several sentences summarizing what I have written above and what I have referenced below, and answering very shortly your own questions. Please if you do not have any more questions to discuss put the first set of items from this ProductBackLog (http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip ) into first 2 weeks long Sprint. This Sprint is expected to "weight" max 5*5*2 = 50 "evaluation unit points". Please leave some free room in it - let's say 10%. Please note that if the SCRUM team will manage to do 50 points within the first week or first week and the half then this is OK to add more ProductBackLog items to be done (or started) within the first Sprint. But the more probable result will be we will not fit the first SCRUM sprint ProductBackLog - no problem if that will even be half of the backlog not done as this usually happens with new teams. The problem/issue will be when we will not manage to make all ProductBackLog implemented during the whole month long project within three Sprints. Well, I'm wiring "problem" but let's keep it easy here as this is more fun than real work what we're doing here - a SCRUM Club as dba-VB where we all are learning the new things, which are supposed to work well in real life projects we're doing for money+. I'd also propose to measure our team "daily velocity" using every week results as every week should take 5 hours of work of every team member - let's call these 5 hours "a working day"+ If we will be "equally speedy" during all the four weeks then our team velocity will be 87/4 = ~22 "evaluation points per working day" , and we can use these stats while planning other projects, and you as the ProductOwner will know that all is "transparent and clear here" - and SCRUM team is doing their best+ Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Scrum Effort Estimation and Story Points http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-effort-estimation-and-story-points/ "In the Sprint Planning Meeting, the team sits down to estimate its effort for the stories in the backlog. The Product Owner needs these estimates, so that he or she is empowered to effectively prioritize items in the backlog and, as a result, forecast releases based on velocity the team's velocity. This means the Product Owner needs an honest appraisal of how difficult work will be. Thus it is recommended that the Product Owner does not observe the estimation process to avoid pressuring (intentionally or otherwise) a team to reduce its effort estimates and take on more work. Even when the team estimates amongst itself, actions should be taken to reduce influencing how a team estimates. As such, it is recommended that all team members disclose their estimates simultaneously." SCRUM Meetings http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-meetings/ "At this point, the Product Owner is typically asked to leave while the team decomposes the sprint backlog items into tasks. While the Product Owner is asked to leave so that the team can candidly discuss the work, he or she is still expected to be "on call" to answer questions, clarify acceptance criteria, or renegotiate. This meeting, which was previously called the sprint definition meeting, is also time-boxed to four hours to limit all sprint planning activities to a single day's time." SCRUM Impediment http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-impediments/ SCRUM Product Owner http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-product-owner/ The ScrumMaster Role http://scrummethodology.com/the-scrummaster-role/ -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:41:31 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... > Hello Shamil, > I have one or two questions on scrum techniques. > > In the estimates, the product owner has to make some judgement calls on > which items to drop, and which items to include. Or let me phrase that > better, the product owner has to prioritise his importance of the items, in > the hope that he receives all, but if he does not, then he must decide which > items to exclude. > > Background of question first > My personal instinct, and the behavior of most people I know will be to seek > some additional information from the 'supplier' as to why feature a takes > one hour and feature b takes 5 hours. I would expect that most people > would assume that this background information assists them in their decision > process, as they are making it from a position of knowledge. Also, as a > product owner in this case, I imagine that there is a certain element of > risk / gambling on the product owners behalf, i.e. do I place this feature > (a 5 hour estimate) at the top of the list, and guarantee its delivery, or > do I drop it down the list, and guarantee five other (1 hour) features. My > instinct at this point is that most people will desire a little background > on the justifications for why one item is one hour and one item is five > hours. > > > Now the question to our ScrumMaster > In this new world, is the above appropriate thinking on behalf of the > product owner. Do I / should I re-program my brain to accept blindly the > estimates and focus only on what is important as a delivered feature and NOT > on why feature A takes five times the time to produce feature B. If I take > this blind leap of faith, will I eventually produce more accurate views on > what is important to my business? i.e. should the product owner keep their > nose out of the programmers area and stick to being product owner. > > > Question 2 > In a larger project than this one, but even in this small project there are > synergies, IOW, the work to produce the suppliers form, may be identical to > the work to produce the categories form. Should the product owner know > there there is some virtual grouping here? Or once again, should he keep > his dirty nose out of these types of concepts. I think you answer will be > yes, he should keep his nose out and leave that to the scrum team. > > Question 3 > When are we ready for me to prioritise the list > > > > > < snip> From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 20 10:17:18 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:17:18 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmUgU0NSVU0gUHJvamVjdCBCYWNrbG9n?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Doug, No, we're keeping SCRUM related discussion in dba-Vb with "SCRUM" keyword in the subject line to tune e-mail filtering to a special mailbox on our mail clients... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Doug Murphy" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:01:47 -0700 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > > Has it been decided to move this back to AccessD? I have seen a lot of > traffic on this subject on that list. I need to filter these messages to a > specific folder so I don't loose them. When there is a lot of traffic on the > D list I tend to group and do bulk deletes on items. > > Doug > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 20 11:07:52 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:07:52 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET ProductBackLogPlanningGame... References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mark, I hadn't looked into the nature of your role. Thanks for asking these weighty questions, the more the better. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Breen" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 5:41 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET ProductBackLogPlanningGame... > Hello Shamil, > I have one or two questions on scrum techniques. > > In the estimates, the product owner has to make some judgement calls on > which items to drop, and which items to include. Or let me phrase that > better, the product owner has to prioritise his importance of the items, > in > the hope that he receives all, but if he does not, then he must decide > which > items to exclude. > > Background of question first > My personal instinct, and the behavior of most people I know will be to > seek > some additional information from the 'supplier' as to why feature a takes > one hour and feature b takes 5 hours. I would expect that most people > would assume that this background information assists them in their > decision > process, as they are making it from a position of knowledge. Also, as a > product owner in this case, I imagine that there is a certain element of > risk / gambling on the product owners behalf, i.e. do I place this feature > (a 5 hour estimate) at the top of the list, and guarantee its delivery, or > do I drop it down the list, and guarantee five other (1 hour) features. > My > instinct at this point is that most people will desire a little background > on the justifications for why one item is one hour and one item is five > hours. > > > Now the question to our ScrumMaster > In this new world, is the above appropriate thinking on behalf of the > product owner. Do I / should I re-program my brain to accept blindly the > estimates and focus only on what is important as a delivered feature and > NOT > on why feature A takes five times the time to produce feature B. If I > take > this blind leap of faith, will I eventually produce more accurate views on > what is important to my business? i.e. should the product owner keep > their > nose out of the programmers area and stick to being product owner. > > > Question 2 > In a larger project than this one, but even in this small project there > are > synergies, IOW, the work to produce the suppliers form, may be identical > to > the work to produce the categories form. Should the product owner know > there there is some virtual grouping here? Or once again, should he keep > his dirty nose out of these types of concepts. I think you answer will be > yes, he should keep his nose out and leave that to the scrum team. > > Question 3 > When are we ready for me to prioritise the list From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 23 13:49:19 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and All, Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to start with. I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the files from there. I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the source files there, and then see how it will work with check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and then publish the new solution with all updates.) Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the coming months. To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do you need some more input from us to make this To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess (http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process tracing/management tool+ Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive Documents NorthWind.NET DataBase NorthwindNET.mdf NorthwindNET_log.ldf NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip 2. NET Winforms solution to start with MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive Documents NorthWind.NET Conversion Project Northwind.NET_20090323.zip From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 23 13:54:47 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line wraps): 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database NorthwindNET.mdf NorthwindNET_log.ldf NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip 2. NET Winforms solution to start with https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project Northwind.NET_20090323.zip -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to start with. > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the files from there. > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the source files there, and then see how it will work with check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the coming months. > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do you need some more input from us to make this > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess (http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process tracing/management tool+ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > MS Live dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > DataBase > NorthwindNET.mdf > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > MS Live dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 23 15:14:34 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:14:34 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: - Tortoise SVN http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ Everything worked smoothly. Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within Visual Studio. Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line wraps): > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > NorthwindNET.mdf > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to start with. > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the files from there. > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the source files there, and then see how it will work with check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the coming months. > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do you need some more input from us to make this > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess (http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process tracing/management tool+ > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > SkyDrive > > Documents > > NorthWind.NET > > DataBase > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > SkyDrive > > Documents > > NorthWind.NET > > Conversion Project > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 23 15:19:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:19:58 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project References: Message-ID: <09982C6AF9724D808153FC94C44D53E6@Mattys> Hi Shamil, Thanks! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > wraps): From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon Mar 23 18:02:22 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:02:22 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Group, I have updated the Excel sheet that contains the estimates to include the product owners choices. Based on my selections, you appears to need 39 units of work out of the total 87 units for work estimated. I hope that I understand this all correctly and that I have made appropriate selections. I tried to select simple forms initially, but as Shamil has suggested that we do approx 40 units in the first week, I had to include almost all the forms. I do hope that is OK. To pad the numbers, I include a few reports also, again, I hope that it is OK that I have given so much work in the first phase. Shamil, if I have something wrong here, please let me know, so that I can update / correct my selections. In our source code repository, I have created a new folder named documents, and placed the newest file in there. I hope it will download for you all. Let me know if you cannot connect to it. For those that are observing the project from a distance, I have uploaded the spreadsheet here also to the skydrive account. If anyone wants to email me, I can also directly forward them the doc. https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1 FYI, when I click my folder here on my laptop and right clicked and selected SVN Update, I immediately got the latest files from Shamil including all source code. When you do the same, you will get his files and also my new version of the excel doc. Not only that, but we can all see that we are now on version 8 of the source code, I did the first few, and it looks like Shamil did about five updates today, I hope this logging is useful to the team. Any questions, just ask. Shamil, if I am not behaving as ideal product owner, please steer me in the right direction. thanks all, Mark 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > - Tortoise SVN > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > Everything worked smoothly. > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > Visual Studio. > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > wraps): > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: dba-VB > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > start with. > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > files from there. > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > source files there, and then see how it will work with > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > coming months. > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > DataBase > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > Conversion Project > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon Mar 23 18:16:19 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:16:19 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Scrum Team, I will just add here additional comment. As you can see, Shamil has highlighted that you can purchase a Visual Studio integrated tool for subversion. but let me just note that you do not need to use this integrated tool. You can get started with what we have here, for free, if you enjoy working with the source code control, then you can always spend money to make it even more streamlined, but until you try out the concept, you do not need to spend anything. Just my short note. Remember, with SCCS (Source Code Control Software), you can always retreive a revision from six revisions ago, imagine being able to go back and get the code you had last sat between 16:00 and 18:00. One final note, just in case the obvious is not so obvious, you can also use SCCS to store recipies for cookies, or your latest business plan, or the packing list for the holidays, or you entire my documents directory. IOW, SCCS, does not have to be just a programmers tool. But please do not upload you entire my docs to this server :) thanks Mark 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > - Tortoise SVN > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > Everything worked smoothly. > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > Visual Studio. > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > wraps): > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: dba-VB > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > start with. > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > files from there. > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > source files there, and then see how it will work with > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > coming months. > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > DataBase > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > Conversion Project > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 04:51:49 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:51:49 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark and SCRUM team, I just noted that I used Visual SVN trial version because I liked it. I will probably purchase it, not sure yet but it definitely saves some time comparing to command line/Tortoise SVN. But I'm probably currently, while establishing development infrastrcuture, committing new sources too often - if committing them one time a day then command line/Torsoise SVN should be good enough. BTW, AFAIK commiting via command line can be automated using windows batch files IOW it can be "one-click" activity. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:16:19 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hello Scrum Team, > > I will just add here additional comment. As you can see, Shamil has > highlighted that you can purchase a Visual Studio integrated tool for > subversion. but let me just note that you do not need to use this > integrated tool. > You can get started with what we have here, for free, if you enjoy working > with the source code control, then you can always spend money to make it > even more streamlined, but until you try out the concept, you do not need to > spend anything. > > Just my short note. > > Remember, with SCCS (Source Code Control Software), you can always retreive > a revision from six revisions ago, imagine being able to go back and get the > code you had last sat between 16:00 and 18:00. > > One final note, just in case the obvious is not so obvious, you can also use > SCCS to store recipies for cookies, or your latest business plan, or the > packing list for the holidays, or you entire my documents directory. IOW, > SCCS, does not have to be just a programmers tool. But please do not upload > you entire my docs to this server :) > > thanks > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > > > - Tortoise SVN > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > > > Everything worked smoothly. > > > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > > Visual Studio. > > > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > > wraps): > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > To: dba-VB > > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > > start with. > > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > > files from there. > > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > > source files there, and then see how it will work with > > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > > coming months. > > > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > DataBase > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > Conversion Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 05:16:36 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:16:36 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. <<< if I am not behaving as ideal product owner >>> We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. :) Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely 'DONE'. I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: - customers 2 - products 3 - suppliers 2 ----------------------- - employees 3 - orders 3 with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - and then we will be OK with our progress... Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: ===================================================== Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== it it's fixed now by adding: GC.Collect(); System.Environment.Exit(0); to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:02:22 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hello Group, > I have updated the Excel sheet that contains the estimates to include the > product owners choices. Based on my selections, you appears to need 39 > units of work out of the total 87 units for work estimated. I hope that I > understand this all correctly and that I have made appropriate selections. > > I tried to select simple forms initially, but as Shamil has suggested that > we do approx 40 units in the first week, I had to include almost all the > forms. I do hope that is OK. To pad the numbers, I include a few reports > also, again, I hope that it is OK that I have given so much work in the > first phase. > > Shamil, if I have something wrong here, please let me know, so that I can > update / correct my selections. > > In our source code repository, I have created a new folder named documents, > and placed the newest file in there. I hope it will download for you all. > Let me know if you cannot connect to it. > > For those that are observing the project from a distance, I have uploaded > the spreadsheet here also to the skydrive account. If anyone wants to email > me, I can also directly forward them the doc. > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1 > > > FYI, when I click my folder here on my laptop and right clicked and selected > SVN Update, I immediately got the latest files from Shamil including all > source code. When you do the same, you will get his files and also my new > version of the excel doc. Not only that, but we can all see that we are now > on version 8 of the source code, I did the first few, and it looks like > Shamil did about five updates today, I hope this logging is useful to the > team. > > Any questions, just ask. Shamil, if I am not behaving as ideal product > owner, please steer me in the right direction. > > thanks all, > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > > > - Tortoise SVN > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > > > Everything worked smoothly. > > > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > > Visual Studio. > > > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > > wraps): > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > To: dba-VB > > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > > start with. > > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > > files from there. > > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > > source files there, and then see how it will work with > > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > > coming months. > > > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > DataBase > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > Conversion Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 24 05:31:12 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:31:12 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project Message-ID: Hi Shamil > (OK Gustav?) That is OK. Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine today. Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-03-2009 11:16 >>> Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. <<< if I am not behaving as ideal product owner >>> We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. :) Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely 'DONE'. I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: - customers 2 - products 3 - suppliers 2 ----------------------- - employees 3 - orders 3 with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - and then we will be OK with our progress... Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: ===================================================== Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== it it's fixed now by adding: GC.Collect(); System.Environment.Exit(0); to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 05:50:21 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:50:21 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Gustav. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:31:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hi Shamil > > > (OK Gustav?) > That is OK. > > Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine today. > Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-03-2009 11:16 >>> > Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, > > Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. > > <<< > if I am not behaving as ideal product owner > >>> > We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. :) > > Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: > > dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project > > Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely 'DONE'. > > I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: > > - customers 2 > - products 3 > - suppliers 2 > ----------------------- > - employees 3 > - orders 3 > > with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - and then we will be OK with our progress... > > Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. > > If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: > > ===================================================== > Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings > C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. > Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. > ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== > > it it's fixed now by adding: > > GC.Collect(); > System.Environment.Exit(0); > > to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marklbreen at gmail.com Tue Mar 24 05:54:03 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:54:03 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello All, >Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. As always in my live, I feel guilty for not being detailed / thorough enough. Does anyone here in this list ever feel that they contribute enough to their customer / family / supplier / community / mailing list of choice. I certainly never feel I do. Gustav, If I understand your email below correctly, you have successfully installed a SVN server and are able to use is with a client to check in and out code locally for yourself. If this is what you did, then you did it the same as me, then I just created a second server on a machine that is currently in a data centre with a good connection. Glad to here is went well for you, I have to admit that I spent not much more than 60 minutes on this SCCS stuff. But I also have to admint that I find is appealing - not sure why. Mark 2009/3/24 Gustav Brock > Hi Shamil > > > (OK Gustav?) > That is OK. > > Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to > set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine > today. > Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-03-2009 11:16 >>> > Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, > > Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. > > <<< > if I am not behaving as ideal product owner > >>> > We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And > you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. > :) > > Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, > SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for > this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time > to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting > their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any > questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current > version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and > also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: > > dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project > > Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - > just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' > status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely > 'DONE'. > > I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: > > - customers 2 > - products 3 > - suppliers 2 > ----------------------- > - employees 3 > - orders 3 > > with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best > candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the > last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be > developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this > week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - > and then we will be OK with our progress... > > Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents > subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the > root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. > > If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the > following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: > > ===================================================== > Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings > C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): > error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to > "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file > '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. > Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. > ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== > > it it's fixed now by adding: > > GC.Collect(); > System.Environment.Exit(0); > > to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 06:01:27 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:01:27 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team, Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - this is just a plan: DONE - 2 - Categories TODO - 2 - Customer Orders TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 TODO - 2 - Customers TODO - 3 - Employees DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard TODO - 3 - Orders TODO - 1 - Orders Subform DONE - 1 - Product List TODO - 2 - Products TODO - 1 - StartUp TODO - 2 - Suppliers ========================== TOTAL: 23 I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: - customers 2 - products 3 - suppliers 2 ----------------------- - employees 3 - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? Then I will do another one.) Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get selected to develop. Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 24 06:21:45 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:21:45 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project Message-ID: Hi Mark No server at me. I installed the Tortoise SVN client and connected successfully to the server you so kindly have provided using the credentials you posted. Then I synced and received a bunch of folders (for SVN I guess) and one readme file, but no project files - will have to look into that later. I also installed the trial of the visual client for VS, and if that works well I plan to spend the few bucks for it and install my own SVN server. /gustav >>> marklbreen at gmail.com 24-03-2009 11:54 >>> Hello All, >Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. As always in my live, I feel guilty for not being detailed / thorough enough. Does anyone here in this list ever feel that they contribute enough to their customer / family / supplier / community / mailing list of choice. I certainly never feel I do. Gustav, If I understand your email below correctly, you have successfully installed a SVN server and are able to use is with a client to check in and out code locally for yourself. If this is what you did, then you did it the same as me, then I just created a second server on a machine that is currently in a data centre with a good connection. Glad to here is went well for you, I have to admit that I spent not much more than 60 minutes on this SCCS stuff. But I also have to admint that I find is appealing - not sure why. Mark 2009/3/24 Gustav Brock > Hi Shamil > > > (OK Gustav?) > That is OK. > > Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to > set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine > today. > Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. > > /gustav From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 24 10:34:26 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: Message-ID: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more straight-forward maybe) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > Hi SCRUM Team, > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - > this is just a plan: > > DONE - 2 - Categories > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > TODO - 2 - Customers > TODO - 3 - Employees > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > TODO - 3 - Orders > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > DONE - 1 - Product List > TODO - 2 - Products > TODO - 1 - StartUp > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > ========================== > TOTAL: 23 > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start working > on the following forms first of all: > > - customers 2 > - products 3 > - suppliers 2 > ----------------------- > - employees 3 > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav you > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? > Then I will do another one.) > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted todo - > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just get > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get > selected to develop. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 12:16:29 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 20:16:29 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike and SCRUM team, Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. The three forms: - products; - suppliers and - customers are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. We with Gustav will develop - employees and - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms using our sample solution. I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > straight-forward maybe) > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - > > this is just a plan: > > > > DONE - 2 - Categories > > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > > TODO - 2 - Customers > > TODO - 3 - Employees > > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > > TODO - 3 - Orders > > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > > DONE - 1 - Product List > > TODO - 2 - Products > > TODO - 1 - StartUp > > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > > ========================== > > TOTAL: 23 > > > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start working > > on the following forms first of all: > > > > - customers 2 > > - products 3 > > - suppliers 2 > > ----------------------- > > - employees 3 > > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav you > > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? > > Then I will do another one.) > > > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted todo - > > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one > > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just get > > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do > > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get > > selected to develop. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 24 12:39:39 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:39:39 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> Message-ID: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> OK, Shamil. I choose Suppliers. I was reading/trying to follow Walkthrough: Displaying Data on a Form in a Windows Application A little lost on adding TableAdapters, but learning. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > The three forms: > > - products; > - suppliers and > - customers > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > We with Gustav will develop > > - employees and > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one > of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > using our sample solution. > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more >> straight-forward maybe) >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> > >> > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - >> > this is just a plan: >> > >> > DONE - 2 - Categories >> > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 >> > TODO - 2 - Customers >> > TODO - 3 - Employees >> > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard >> > TODO - 3 - Orders >> > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform >> > DONE - 1 - Product List >> > TODO - 2 - Products >> > TODO - 1 - StartUp >> > TODO - 2 - Suppliers >> > ========================== >> > TOTAL: 23 >> > >> > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start >> > working >> > on the following forms first of all: >> > >> > - customers 2 >> > - products 3 >> > - suppliers 2 >> > ----------------------- >> > - employees 3 >> > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) >> > >> > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav >> > you >> > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which >> > one? >> > Then I will do another one.) >> > >> > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them >> > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted >> > todo - >> > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one >> > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just >> > get >> > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do >> > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get >> > selected to develop. >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue Mar 24 14:40:11 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:40:11 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan In-Reply-To: References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> Message-ID: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but want to try and keep up with you guys. Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. Doug -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM To: dba-VB Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan Hi Mike and SCRUM team, Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. The three forms: - products; - suppliers and - customers are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. We with Gustav will develop - employees and - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms using our sample solution. I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > straight-forward maybe) > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be > > fulfilled) - this is just a plan: > > > > DONE - 2 - Categories > > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > > TODO - 2 - Customers > > TODO - 3 - Employees > > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > > TODO - 3 - Orders > > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > > DONE - 1 - Product List > > TODO - 2 - Products > > TODO - 1 - StartUp > > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > > ========================== > > TOTAL: 23 > > > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > > working on the following forms first of all: > > > > - customers 2 > > - products 3 > > - suppliers 2 > > ----------------------- > > - employees 3 > > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav > > (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? > > Then I will do another one.) > > > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > > todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, > > second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last > > one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the > > same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the > > form name you will get selected to develop. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 24 14:48:17 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:48:17 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan In-Reply-To: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> Message-ID: <49C93901.2030204@colbyconsulting.com> I guess I am taking customers? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Doug Murphy wrote: > OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but > want to try and keep up with you guys. > > Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM > To: dba-VB > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > The three forms: > > - products; > - suppliers and > - customers > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > We with Gustav will develop > > - employees and > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of > the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > using our sample solution. > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more >> straight-forward maybe) >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >>> Hi SCRUM Team, >>> >>> Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be >>> fulfilled) - this is just a plan: >>> >>> DONE - 2 - Categories >>> TODO - 2 - Customer Orders >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 >>> TODO - 2 - Customers >>> TODO - 3 - Employees >>> DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard >>> TODO - 3 - Orders >>> TODO - 1 - Orders Subform >>> DONE - 1 - Product List >>> TODO - 2 - Products >>> TODO - 1 - StartUp >>> TODO - 2 - Suppliers >>> ========================== >>> TOTAL: 23 >>> >>> I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start >>> working on the following forms first of all: >>> >>> - customers 2 >>> - products 3 >>> - suppliers 2 >>> ----------------------- >>> - employees 3 >>> - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) >>> >>> with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav >>> (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you > - which one? >>> Then I will do another one.) >>> >>> Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them >>> developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted >>> todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, >>> second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last >>> one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the >>> same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the >>> form name you will get selected to develop. >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-VB mailing list >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 24 15:08:22 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:08:22 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM - Source code control Message-ID: <49C93DB6.6050701@colbyconsulting.com> Mark sent an email about his setting up a source code server but I cannot for the life of me find it. It told where to go to download the SCC software, how to connect to the server instance etc. If someone could please forward that to me with SCRUM - SCC in the subject that would be great. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:32:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:32:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gLSBTb3VyY2UgY29kZSBjb250cm9s?= In-Reply-To: <49C93DB6.6050701@colbyconsulting.com> References: <49C93DB6.6050701@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John, Forwarded. On MS Live dba-vb group Favorites there are links for Tortoise SVN and Visual SVN. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: VBA Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:08:22 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM - Source code control > Mark sent an email about his setting up a source code server but I cannot for the life of me find > it. It told where to go to download the SCC software, how to connect to the server instance etc. > If someone could please forward that to me with SCRUM - SCC in the subject that would be great. > > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:34:40 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:34:40 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <49C93901.2030204@colbyconsulting.com> References: <49C93901.2030204@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Yes, John, Mike selected Suppliers form, Doug selected Products form and you have got Customers form Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:48:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > I guess I am taking customers? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Doug Murphy wrote: > > OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but > > want to try and keep up with you guys. > > > > Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. > > > > Doug > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > > Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM > > To: dba-VB > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > > The three forms: > > > > - products; > > - suppliers and > > - customers > > > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > > > We with Gustav will develop > > > > - employees and > > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of > > the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > > using our sample solution. > > > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > >> straight-forward maybe) > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "dba-VB" > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> > >> > >>> Hi SCRUM Team, > >>> > >>> Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be > >>> fulfilled) - this is just a plan: > >>> > >>> DONE - 2 - Categories > >>> TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > >>> TODO - 2 - Customers > >>> TODO - 3 - Employees > >>> DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > >>> TODO - 3 - Orders > >>> TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > >>> DONE - 1 - Product List > >>> TODO - 2 - Products > >>> TODO - 1 - StartUp > >>> TODO - 2 - Suppliers > >>> ========================== > >>> TOTAL: 23 > >>> > >>> I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > >>> working on the following forms first of all: > >>> > >>> - customers 2 > >>> - products 3 > >>> - suppliers 2 > >>> ----------------------- > >>> - employees 3 > >>> - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > >>> > >>> with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav > >>> (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you > > - which one? > >>> Then I will do another one.) > >>> > >>> Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > >>> developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > >>> todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, > >>> second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last > >>> one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the > >>> same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the > >>> form name you will get selected to develop. > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Shamil > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> dba-VB mailing list > >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>> > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:35:23 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:35:23 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> References: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> Message-ID: OK, Doug. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Doug Murphy" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:40:11 -0700 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but > want to try and keep up with you guys. > > Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM > To: dba-VB > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > The three forms: > > - products; > - suppliers and > - customers > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > We with Gustav will develop > > - employees and > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of > the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > using our sample solution. > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > > I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > > straight-forward maybe) > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > > To: "dba-VB" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be > > > fulfilled) - this is just a plan: > > > > > > DONE - 2 - Categories > > > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > > > TODO - 2 - Customers > > > TODO - 3 - Employees > > > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > > > TODO - 3 - Orders > > > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > > > DONE - 1 - Product List > > > TODO - 2 - Products > > > TODO - 1 - StartUp > > > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > > > ========================== > > > TOTAL: 23 > > > > > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > > > working on the following forms first of all: > > > > > > - customers 2 > > > - products 3 > > > - suppliers 2 > > > ----------------------- > > > - employees 3 > > > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > > > > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav > > > (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you > - which one? > > > Then I will do another one.) > > > > > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > > > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > > > todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, > > > second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last > > > one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the > > > same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the > > > form name you will get selected to develop. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:45:23 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:45:23 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> References: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> Message-ID: OK, Mike, In fact you do not need to do that much work to make your form because the current NorthwindNET.sln solution is prepared to make it playfully almost only by using mouse: I'm about to publish a short HowTo clip for everybofy to look at it first of all (2 minutes 10 seconds). I'm sorry I haven't published it yet but it takes much more time to make that movie clip that to develop the forms I made today. (Unfortunately I do not have Camtasia Studio or somethingv like that and I have to get screenshots and then put them into MS Movies Maker and then add some comments... The resoluton of movie frames would be not very good to save some space (this is automatic MS Movie makers feature). I also plan to publoish source screenshots with good quality. Stay tuned.. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:39:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > OK, Shamil. I choose Suppliers. > > I was reading/trying to follow > Walkthrough: Displaying Data on a Form in a Windows Application > > A little lost on adding TableAdapters, but learning. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:16 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > > The three forms: > > > > - products; > > - suppliers and > > - customers > > > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > > > We with Gustav will develop > > > > - employees and > > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one > > of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > > using our sample solution. > > > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > >> straight-forward maybe) > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "dba-VB" > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> > >> > >> > Hi SCRUM Team, > >> > > >> > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - > >> > this is just a plan: > >> > > >> > DONE - 2 - Categories > >> > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > >> > TODO - 2 - Customers > >> > TODO - 3 - Employees > >> > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > >> > TODO - 3 - Orders > >> > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > >> > DONE - 1 - Product List > >> > TODO - 2 - Products > >> > TODO - 1 - StartUp > >> > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > >> > ========================== > >> > TOTAL: 23 > >> > > >> > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > >> > working > >> > on the following forms first of all: > >> > > >> > - customers 2 > >> > - products 3 > >> > - suppliers 2 > >> > ----------------------- > >> > - employees 3 > >> > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > >> > > >> > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav > >> > you > >> > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which > >> > one? > >> > Then I will do another one.) > >> > > >> > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > >> > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > >> > todo - > >> > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one > >> > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just > >> > get > >> > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do > >> > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get > >> > selected to develop. > >> > > >> > Thank you. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Shamil > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 24 16:09:10 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:09:10 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> Message-ID: <7F1BF6F9C5244626A700BDF2021231EE@Mattys> Shamil, you did a lot of work. I did dig into things a little and changed the SQL Server connection to Path\dbo.mdf and everything worked fine. However, I don't yet comprehend the source control and wasn't sure what to do once I saved it and someone asked, "Well, where is it?" - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > OK, Mike, > > In fact you do not need to do that much work to make your form because the > current NorthwindNET.sln solution is prepared to make it playfully almost > only by using mouse: I'm about to publish a short HowTo clip for everybofy > to look at it first of all (2 minutes 10 seconds). > > I'm sorry I haven't published it yet but it takes much more time to make > that movie clip that to develop the forms I made today. (Unfortunately I > do not have Camtasia Studio or somethingv like that and I have to get > screenshots and then put them into MS Movies Maker and then add some > comments... > > The resoluton of movie frames would be not very good to save some space > (this is automatic MS Movie makers feature). I also plan to publoish > source screenshots with good quality. > > Stay tuned.. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:39:39 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> OK, Shamil. I choose Suppliers. >> >> I was reading/trying to follow >> Walkthrough: Displaying Data on a Form in a Windows Application >> >> A little lost on adding TableAdapters, but learning. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >> > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> > >> > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. >> > The three forms: >> > >> > - products; >> > - suppliers and >> > - customers >> > >> > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of >> > you. >> > >> > We with Gustav will develop >> > >> > - employees and >> > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will >> > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. >> > >> > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any >> > one >> > of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. >> > >> > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make >> > forms >> > using our sample solution. >> > >> > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: "Mike Mattys" >> > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning >> > Visual >> > Basic and related programming issues." >> > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> > >> >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed >> >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more >> >> straight-forward maybe) >> >> - >> >> Michael R Mattys >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> - >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> >> To: "dba-VB" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM >> >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> >> > >> >> > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be >> >> > fulfilled) - >> >> > this is just a plan: >> >> > >> >> > DONE - 2 - Categories >> >> > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders >> >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 >> >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 >> >> > TODO - 2 - Customers >> >> > TODO - 3 - Employees >> >> > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard >> >> > TODO - 3 - Orders >> >> > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform >> >> > DONE - 1 - Product List >> >> > TODO - 2 - Products >> >> > TODO - 1 - StartUp >> >> > TODO - 2 - Suppliers >> >> > ========================== >> >> > TOTAL: 23 >> >> > >> >> > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start >> >> > working >> >> > on the following forms first of all: >> >> > >> >> > - customers 2 >> >> > - products 3 >> >> > - suppliers 2 >> >> > ----------------------- >> >> > - employees 3 >> >> > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) >> >> > >> >> > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav >> >> > (Gustav >> >> > you >> >> > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which >> >> > one? >> >> > Then I will do another one.) >> >> > >> >> > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them >> >> > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted >> >> > todo - >> >> > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one >> >> > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will >> >> > just >> >> > get >> >> > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do >> >> > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get >> >> > selected to develop. >> >> > >> >> > Thank you. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Shamil >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > dba-VB mailing list >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 16:27:17 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:27:17 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEhvd1RvczogVmlkZW8gQ2xpcC9TY3JlZW5z?= =?koi8-r?b?aG90cyAtIEhvdyB0byBNYWtlIGEgQm91bmQgLk5FVCBXaW5Gb3Jt?= =?koi8-r?b?IHdpdGggU3ViRm9ybS4uLg==?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx the subject HowTos: 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data tables and relationships... I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good when using streaming video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - yes, it's :) Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development environment - correct? :) As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the end of the project when/if we will have some time left... Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a good day and happy .NET WinForms design! From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 24 16:57:48 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:57:48 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How about sharing with the rest of us, Shamil? I clicked the link, but didn't see anything. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:27 PM To: dba-VB Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx the subject HowTos: 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data tables and relationships... I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good when using streaming video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - yes, it's :) Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development environment - correct? :) As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the end of the project when/if we will have some time left... Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a good day and happy .NET WinForms design! _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 12:18:18 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:18:18 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. New version is uploaded to dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project and also commited to our SVN server. This version uses new view. This view SQL script is stored in: >Northwind.NET.FE >Datasets >SQL 0001_vw_CustomerOrdersProducts.sql (TODO Note: we have to decide what is the best way for us to keep our MS SQL databases in sync without that much manual work of running SQL scripts to create new SQL objects). Please run this SQL against your version of MS SQL database. FYI: trying to use as little as possible new SQL Views etc. but for this form that was the quickest solution in my opinion, and a solution not using embedded into C# code SQL. I have also created new dataset dedicated to this form - CustomerOrdersFormDataSet. Trying to do the things done first, and then (in the next version) to do them right (industry strong) - this approach usually works well in .NET - unlike VB6/VBA where usage of this approach often results in unmanagable code... Please question everything you're getting from here but please stay focused on getting converted NorthWind.NET desktop WinForm application first of all... Thank you. -- Shamil From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 14:46:41 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:46:41 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: Message-ID: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Shamil, I built everything from the video, but one thing I don't get: For some reason you are able to simply put "Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;" where I require a path to the mdf - why does that happen? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums > > http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx > > the subject HowTos: > > 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > > This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound > .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data > tables and relationships... > > I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good > when using streaming video: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic > > you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. > > I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - > yes, it's :) > > Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd > suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the > more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working > smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET > development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development > environment - correct? :) > > As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every > step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to > discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the > end of the project when/if we will have some time left... > > Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner > acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a > good day and happy .NET WinForms design! > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 15:05:59 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:05:59 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEhvd1RvczogVmlkZW8gQ2xpcC9TY3JlZW5z?= =?koi8-r?b?aG90cyAtIEhvdyB0byBNYWtlIGEgQm91bmQgLk5FVCBXaW5Gb3Jt?= =?koi8-r?b?IHdpdGggU3ViRm9ybS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Did you get .mdf database file attached to your MS SQL Server 2005(?) set of databases? What MS SQL 20065 versions do you use? - default installed with VS 2008 MS SQL 2005 Express? Do you have installed Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio Express http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=C243A5AE-4BD1-4E3D-94B8-5A0F62BF7796&displaylang=en ? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:46:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Shamil, > > I built everything from the video, but one thing I don't get: > > For some reason you are able to simply put "Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;" > where I require a path to the mdf - why does that happen? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:27 PM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a > Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > > > I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums > > > > http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx > > > > the subject HowTos: > > > > 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > > 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > > > > This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound > > .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data > > tables and relationships... > > > > I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good > > when using streaming video: > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic > > > > you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. > > > > I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - > > yes, it's :) > > > > Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd > > suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the > > more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working > > smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET > > development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development > > environment - correct? :) > > > > As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every > > step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to > > discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the > > end of the project when/if we will have some time left... > > > > Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner > > acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a > > good day and happy .NET WinForms design! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:09:28 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:09:28 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make aBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name Seems to work. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make aBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Shamil, > > I built everything from the video, but one thing I don't get: > > For some reason you are able to simply put "Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;" > where I require a path to the mdf - why does that happen? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:27 PM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a > Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > >> Hi SCRUM Team and all, >> >> I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums >> >> http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx >> >> the subject HowTos: >> >> 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm >> 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm >> >> This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound >> .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data >> tables and relationships... >> >> I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good >> when using streaming video: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic >> >> you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. >> >> I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - >> yes, it's :) >> >> Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd >> suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the >> more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working >> smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET >> development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development >> environment - correct? :) >> >> As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every >> step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to >> discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the >> end of the project when/if we will have some time left... >> >> Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner >> acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a >> good day and happy .NET WinForms design! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:13:11 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:13:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: <1D96B1D205D64E1AB81C0956DB78A302@Mattys> No, I have SQL 2005 Developer - came with VS2008 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Hi Mike, > > Did you get .mdf database file attached to your MS SQL Server 2005(?) set > of databases? > > What MS SQL 20065 versions do you use? - default installed with VS 2008 MS > SQL 2005 Express? > > Do you have installed Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio Express > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=C243A5AE-4BD1-4E3D-94B8-5A0F62BF7796&displaylang=en > > ? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:14:10 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:14:10 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: <5241B2EB10C24077B26648A319887D44@Mattys> Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table Try again. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put > ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > > Seems to work. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:30:24 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> <5241B2EB10C24077B26648A319887D44@Mattys> Message-ID: I'm stuck. Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. What should I be looking for to correct this? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > Try again. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name >> >> Seems to work. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:09:07 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:09:07 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEhvd1RvczogVmlkZW8gQ2xpcC9TY3JlZW5z?= =?koi8-r?b?aG90cyAtIEhvd3RvTWFrZWFCb3VuZCAuTkVUIFdpbkZvcm0gd2l0?= =?koi8-r?b?aCBTdWJGb3JtLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, What is exactly the message? Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on MS Live dba-vb? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > I'm stuck. > Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup > Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. > What should I be looking for to correct this? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How > toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > > Try again. > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > > >> > >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put > >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > >> > >> Seems to work. > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:13:19 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:13:19 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFRhcmdldFByb2Nlc3M=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, FYI: I have got installed TargetProcess (www.targetprocess.com) on my PC but I still can't get it running on my ASP.NET hosting web site. I have sent a request to TargetProcess support to check what is happening there. While waiting their response(it may take a day)/fixing the issue I will be using TargetProcess locally and I will be filling its db with our project information. When public version up&running I will restore its db from my local backup. Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:32:35 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:32:35 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Did you get restored databasse from backup after you've got attached .mdf db file? The .mdf db file has old version of tables with some fields' names being different: remember Gustav prposed to rename some fields? Please restore db from backup published on MS LIve dba-vb several days ago in the same SkyDrive folder, then preview should work I expect (in old [Order] table the current Order.[ID] field ws named OrderId, and the current Order.ShipperId field was named [ShipVia] Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:19:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Hi Shamil, > > Invalid Columns requires new/other fields in query? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - HowtoMakeaBound > .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Mike, > > > > What is exactly the message? > > Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on MS > > Live dba-vb? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - > > HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > >> I'm stuck. > >> Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup > >> Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. > >> What should I be looking for to correct this? > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How > >> toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > >> > >> > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > >> > Try again. > >> > - > >> > Michael R Mattys > >> > MapPoint and Database Dev > >> > www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > - > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Mike Mattys" > >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > >> > issues." > >> > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > >> > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > >> >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I > >> >> put > >> >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > >> >> > >> >> Seems to work. > >> >> > >> >> - > >> >> Michael R Mattys > >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (invcol.jpg) > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:41:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:41:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Did you get restored databasse from backup after you've got attached .mdf db file? The .mdf db file has old version of tables with some fields' names being different: remember Gustav prposed to rename some fields? Please restore db from backup published on MS LIve dba-vb several days ago in the same SkyDrive folder, then preview should work I expect (in old [Order] table the current Order.[ID] field ws named OrderId, and the current Order.ShipperId field was named [ShipVia] Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:19:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Hi Shamil, > > Invalid Columns requires new/other fields in query? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - HowtoMakeaBound > .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Mike, > > > > What is exactly the message? > > Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on MS > > Live dba-vb? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - > > HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > >> I'm stuck. > >> Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup > >> Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. > >> What should I be looking for to correct this? > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How > >> toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > >> > >> > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > >> > Try again. > >> > - > >> > Michael R Mattys > >> > MapPoint and Database Dev > >> > www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > - > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Mike Mattys" > >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > >> > issues." > >> > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > >> > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > >> >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I > >> >> put > >> >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > >> >> > >> >> Seems to work. > >> >> > >> >> - > >> >> Michael R Mattys > >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (invcol.jpg) > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 17:04:07 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:04:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> Message-ID: <9963E979FDBE437CAF5BB177ACF505F0@Mattys> Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > Hi Mike, > > Did you get restored databasse from backup after you've got attached .mdf > db file? > > The .mdf db file has old version of tables with some fields' names being > different: remember Gustav prposed to rename some fields? > > Please restore db from backup published on MS LIve dba-vb several days ago > in the same SkyDrive folder, then preview should work I expect (in old > [Order] table the current Order.[ID] field ws named OrderId, and the > current Order.ShipperId field was named [ShipVia] > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:19:41 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Invalid Columns > >> Hi Shamil, >> >> Invalid Columns requires new/other fields in query? >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - >> HowtoMakeaBound >> .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> >> >> > Mike, >> > >> > What is exactly the message? >> > Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on >> > MS >> > Live dba-vb? >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: "Mike Mattys" >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> > issues." >> > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - >> > HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> > >> >> I'm stuck. >> >> Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup >> >> Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. >> >> What should I be looking for to correct this? >> >> >> >> - >> >> Michael R Mattys >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> - >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Mike Mattys" >> >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> >> issues." >> >> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How >> >> toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> >> >> >> >> >> > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table >> >> > Try again. >> >> > - >> >> > Michael R Mattys >> >> > MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> > www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> > - >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Mike Mattys" >> >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> >> > issues." >> >> > >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM >> >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to >> >> > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and >> >> >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so >> >> >> I >> >> >> put >> >> >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name >> >> >> >> >> >> Seems to work. >> >> >> >> >> >> - >> >> >> Michael R Mattys >> >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > dba-VB mailing list >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> dba-VB mailing list >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (invcol.jpg) >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 17:11:36 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> <9963E979FDBE437CAF5BB177ACF505F0@Mattys> Message-ID: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection Trouble. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 17:36:21 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:36:21 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> Message-ID: Mike, You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace option. Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the latest one. To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll make some changes you wanted to overwrite back. The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details named NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection > Trouble. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > > > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 18:17:11 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:17:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> Message-ID: <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> I found this to help me out: SQL Services Manager http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Mike, > > You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. > > When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from > archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace > option. > > Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the latest > one. > > To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and > backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll make > some changes you wanted to overwrite back. > > > The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details > > named > > NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > >> Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection >> Trouble. >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Mattys" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning >> Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns >> >> >> > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. >> > >> > - >> > Michael R Mattys >> > MapPoint and Database Dev >> > www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 18:30:40 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:30:40 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> Message-ID: OK - database works ... rebuilding my Suppliers stuff - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns >I found this to help me out: > SQL Services Manager > http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > >> Mike, >> >> You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. >> >> When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from >> archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace >> option. >> >> Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the >> latest >> one. >> >> To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and >> backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll >> make >> some changes you wanted to overwrite back. >> >> >> The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: >> >> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details >> >> named >> >> NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 19:18:03 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:18:03 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: SVN/Tortoise References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys><4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> Message-ID: <79BB180046B245148EE99D3537407C7A@Mattys> My Suppliers form worked and I 'uploaded' it. Program.cs was out of date, so the merge failed It said try Update, so I did - that failed, too. I think I like this anyway ... :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > OK - database works ... rebuilding my Suppliers stuff > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > >>I found this to help me out: >> SQL Services Manager >> http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns >> >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. >>> >>> When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from >>> archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using >>> replace >>> option. >>> >>> Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the >>> latest >>> one. >>> >>> To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and >>> backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll >>> make >>> some changes you wanted to overwrite back. >>> >>> >>> The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: >>> >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details >>> >>> named >>> >>> NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> >>> P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 22:09:46 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:09:46 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: SVN/Tortoise References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys><4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> <79BB180046B245148EE99D3537407C7A@Mattys> Message-ID: // Don't forget to comment/uncomment back on // comminitting your current version of code. Of course, I forgot :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:18 PM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: SVN/Tortoise > My Suppliers form worked and I 'uploaded' it. > > Program.cs was out of date, so the merge failed > > It said try Update, so I did - that failed, too. > > I think I like this anyway ... :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 02:50:30 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 10:50:30 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> References: <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Yes, that's useful - I have added the link to MS LIve dba-VBn favorites. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:17:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > I found this to help me out: > SQL Services Manager > http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > > > Mike, > > > > You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. > > > > When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from > > archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace > > option. > > > > Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the latest > > one. > > > > To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and > > backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll make > > some changes you wanted to overwrite back. > > > > > > The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details > > > > named > > > > NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > > >> Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection > >> Trouble. > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > >> Visual > >> Basic and related programming issues." > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > >> > >> > >> > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. > >> > > >> > - > >> > Michael R Mattys > >> > MapPoint and Database Dev > >> > www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 04:41:36 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:41:36 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM / Northwind.NET Sample application(s) and library(-ies) Message-ID: Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D ================================== Hi All, I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: http://northwind.codeplex.com/ under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use by a broad worldwide audience." I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week (excluding holidays). Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample application up&running on your PCs. If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what our SCRUM team is doing ... Thank you. -- Shamil From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu Mar 26 06:50:40 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:50:40 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? Message-ID: Hello Scrum Team, Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth running of the scrum project. With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you need / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it (commiting it) back in when you make changes. Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management to become a friction item in the scrum items. Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product owner) at the moment, in your opinion Thanks Mark 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > ================================== > > Hi All, > > I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: > > http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > > under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > > "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within > .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > > This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use by > a broad worldwide audience." > > I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > (excluding holidays). > > Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together > with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample application > up&running on your PCs. > > If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating > your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what our > SCRUM team is doing ... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 09:19:07 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:19:07 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark, Yes, SCRUM techniques and their practical application to our project are important but there are several other subjects of equal importance I'd suppose. - 1) Distributed SCRUM; - 1) Distributed Source Code Control and related technologies to "industrialize" software development: (automated) code refactoring, Test Driven Development, automated Unit/Integration/.... testing, automated coding quality checking, continuous integration etc. (sorry used some buzzwords here but I do know from my experienced all of them do have good practical application) ; - 3) Getting our team members who only start with .NET on speed with .NET development. Of course getting on full speed is a long story but getting on good speed is expected to be (much) shorter... Source Code Control for distributed teams for any real life size project (with thousands of source files) is a cornerstone for everything else in my opinion - I'd "sacrifice" some SCRUM practices but not Source Code Control... Getting our team members on good speed with .NET is the second most important task, and the third is SCRUM - SCRUM will be rather useless in our case without good final project developed, and that good final project can be developed without SCC but then I or somebody else of our team would have to spend their time on routine work of code coordination - let's better try to get automated SCC working with your server - it should be less "trouble" to solve for our team than to coordinate code changes manually (Note: yes, in the beginning I was telling we can live without SCC but now with your server and/or CodePlex working well I'd prefer to rely on automated SCC, and free some time to assist in coding for other team members...) I will be keeping here SCRUM stats on local TargetProcess system until I get it online (with help of TargetProcess helpdesk) and that work needs some time - I'd better do it than coordinate source code manually.... When we currently have two working options as your SCC Server and CodePlex we should use first of them (your server) as a team, and the second - CodePlex - I'd keep posting current versions every week to have them shared wit everybody. CodePlex is good but using your server (if you'll have time) will allow us to get e.g. CruiseControl.NET etc. running there and then we can use such tested configuration for other projects, consult others etc. - installing and keeping running such "continuous integration chain" is not "rocket-science" but doing that alone takes quite some time - together we can get it up&running much quicker... Mark, there is one concern about committing changes, namely, imagine somebody of our team adds new forms/reports/classes to one of the two projects, and another team members adds some more new forms/reports/classes to one of the two projects etc. - and they are doing that against common current versions of solution they have on their PC. What will happen with project files .csproj when they will be committed? Not sure here they will get merged properly. I'd try to test that ASAP: we can do that with you by chatting via MS Messenger/GoogleTalk and doing some additions to the source projects, and then committing them. Note: I'd suppose VisualSVN somehow handles this issue because it's a Visual Studio Add-in and such add-ins can process .csproj files smarter than just TortoiseSVN, which I expect (I can be wrong) would just try to "stupidly" merge two files producing incorrect .csproj file (which is an XML file)... > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > owner) at the moment, in your opinion Mark as far as I see what is missing in Access Northwind is navigation involving all forms and reports - maybe you can try to figure out such navigation by just filling a worksheet with rows having forms/reports names and some columns having "buttons" navigating to other forms/reports... It would be useful also to maybe try to install CruiseControl.NET and get it working on every commit running a "fake" unit test showing that currently committed code compiles and builds well, "fake" unit/integration test runs etc. but that kind of activity is not the one of ProductOwner - would you be interested to do something like that? - and when we're done with all forms/reports/navigation then we can join you to set this automated development environment. No need to set this environment quickly but setting it gradually piece by piece would be useful for all of us+. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:50:40 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hello Scrum Team, > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth > running of the scrum project. > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you need > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management to > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > Thanks > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > > ================================== > > > > Hi All, > > > > I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: > > > > http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > > > > under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > > > > "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > > demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within > > .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > > > > This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > > (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > > together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > > technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use by > > a broad worldwide audience." > > > > I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > > (excluding holidays). > > > > Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together > > with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > > follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample application > > up&running on your PCs. > > > > If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating > > your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what our > > SCRUM team is doing ... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 26 10:08:53 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? References: Message-ID: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> Hi Mark, The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to re-comment some code. Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Breen" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hello Scrum Team, > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth > running of the scrum project. > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > need > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management > to > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > Thanks > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D >> ================================== >> >> Hi All, >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use >> by >> a broad worldwide audience." >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week >> (excluding holidays). >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample >> application >> up&running on your PCs. >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what >> our >> SCRUM team is doing ... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 10:30:15 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:30:15 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> References: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get commit it yesterday? Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hi Mark, > > The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to > re-comment some code. > > Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Breen" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > Hello Scrum Team, > > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth > > running of the scrum project. > > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > > need > > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it > > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > > > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management > > to > > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > > > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > > > Thanks > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > >> ================================== > >> > >> Hi All, > >> > >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: > >> > >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > >> > >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > >> > >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within > >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > >> > >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use > >> by > >> a broad worldwide audience." > >> > >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > >> (excluding holidays). > >> > >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together > >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample > >> application > >> up&running on your PCs. > >> > >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating > >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what > >> our > >> SCRUM team is doing ... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 26 10:37:55 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:37:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? References: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> Message-ID: <2826E71E97424DC0901436D4A1A8F83F@Mattys> All committed! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hi Mike, > > But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get > commit it yesterday? > > Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's > just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the > forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code > line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - > don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. > > But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC > when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit > your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > >> Hi Mark, >> >> The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to >> re-comment some code. >> >> Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark Breen" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning >> Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? >> >> >> > Hello Scrum Team, >> > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, >> > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the >> > smooth >> > running of the scrum project. >> > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you >> > need >> > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking >> > it >> > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. >> > >> > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code >> > management >> > to >> > become a friction item in the scrum items. >> > >> > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product >> > owner) at the moment, in your opinion >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > Mark >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil >> > >> >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D >> >> ================================== >> >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on >> >> CodePlex: >> >> >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ >> >> >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). >> >> >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to >> >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used >> >> within >> >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. >> >> >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of >> >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working >> >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new >> >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to >> >> use >> >> by >> >> a broad worldwide audience." >> >> >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week >> >> (excluding holidays). >> >> >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded >> >> together >> >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and >> >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample >> >> application >> >> up&running on your PCs. >> >> >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep >> >> updating >> >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of >> >> what >> >> our >> >> SCRUM team is doing ... >> >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Shamil >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> dba-VB mailing list >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 10:58:26 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:58:26 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: <2826E71E97424DC0901436D4A1A8F83F@Mattys> References: <2826E71E97424DC0901436D4A1A8F83F@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, I have got your updates using Visual SVN and it worked OK - I see your new form in the VS project - although form do not work now - all forms... ...no problem I will try to find what happened - I currently see app.config in the project is OK for my environment - so ir should be something else... ...stay tuned. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:37:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > All committed! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:30 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get > > commit it yesterday? > > > > Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's > > just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the > > forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code > > line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - > > don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. > > > > But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC > > when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit > > your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > >> Hi Mark, > >> > >> The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to > >> re-comment some code. > >> > >> Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mark Breen" > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > >> Visual > >> Basic and related programming issues." > >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > >> > >> > >> > Hello Scrum Team, > >> > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > >> > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the > >> > smooth > >> > running of the scrum project. > >> > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > >> > need > >> > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking > >> > it > >> > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > >> > > >> > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code > >> > management > >> > to > >> > become a friction item in the scrum items. > >> > > >> > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > >> > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > > >> > Mark > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> > > >> >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > >> >> ================================== > >> >> > >> >> Hi All, > >> >> > >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on > >> >> CodePlex: > >> >> > >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > >> >> > >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > >> >> > >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > >> >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used > >> >> within > >> >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > >> >> > >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > >> >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > >> >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > >> >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to > >> >> use > >> >> by > >> >> a broad worldwide audience." > >> >> > >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > >> >> (excluding holidays). > >> >> > >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded > >> >> together > >> >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > >> >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample > >> >> application > >> >> up&running on your PCs. > >> >> > >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep > >> >> updating > >> >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of > >> >> what > >> >> our > >> >> SCRUM team is doing ... > >> >> > >> >> Thank you. > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Shamil > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> dba-VB mailing list > >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 11:48:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:48:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, OK, this should: Right-Click Project name -> Properties -> Settings -> NorthwindNETConnectionString with setting value = Data Source=HAMBURG\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True which should be edited and then app.config's sestion is getting (re-)generated. But as far as I can see the value from app.config is not used by strongly-typed datasets - instead hardcoded value from Northwind.NET.FE -> Properties -> Settings.Designer.cs is used... We can keep replacing each other connection strings if we will be commiting Settings.Designer.cs and app.config - IOW better not commit them if we do not introduce new settings. In any event take anote that if you are getting trouble opening say CategoriesForm then you have to edit connection string in project settings not in app.config. Sorry for confusion I introduced. (I must say I rarely use strongly typed datasets but this issue/subject is another story we can talk in half a year probably - maybe in that time I will become adept of strongly typed datasets and ADO.NET Entity Framework and I will forget my current preferences of using custom object models with as little ADO.NET as possibel and without any strongly typed datasets at all... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I have to make a correction of my video tutorial now. -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:58:26 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > Hi Mike, > > I have got your updates using Visual SVN and it worked OK - I see your new form in the VS project - although form do not work now - all forms... > > ...no problem I will try to find what happened - I currently see app.config in the project is OK for my environment - so ir should be something else... > > ...stay tuned. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:37:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > All committed! > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get > > > commit it yesterday? > > > > > > Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's > > > just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the > > > forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code > > > line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - > > > don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. > > > > > > But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC > > > when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit > > > your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > > issues." > > > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > > >> Hi Mark, > > >> > > >> The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to > > >> re-comment some code. > > >> > > >> Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? > > >> > > >> - > > >> Michael R Mattys > > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > >> - > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Mark Breen" > > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > > >> Visual > > >> Basic and related programming issues." > > >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > >> > > >> > > >> > Hello Scrum Team, > > >> > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > > >> > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the > > >> > smooth > > >> > running of the scrum project. > > >> > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > > >> > need > > >> > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking > > >> > it > > >> > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > >> > > > >> > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code > > >> > management > > >> > to > > >> > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > >> > > > >> > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > > >> > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > >> > > > >> > Thanks > > >> > > > >> > Mark > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > >> > > > >> >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > > >> >> ================================== > > >> >> > > >> >> Hi All, > > >> >> > > >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on > > >> >> CodePlex: > > >> >> > > >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > > >> >> > > >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > > >> >> > > >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > > >> >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used > > >> >> within > > >> >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > > >> >> > > >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > > >> >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > > >> >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > > >> >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to > > >> >> use > > >> >> by > > >> >> a broad worldwide audience." > > >> >> > > >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > > >> >> (excluding holidays). > > >> >> > > >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded > > >> >> together > > >> >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > > >> >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample > > >> >> application > > >> >> up&running on your PCs. > > >> >> > > >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep > > >> >> updating > > >> >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of > > >> >> what > > >> >> our > > >> >> SCRUM team is doing ... > > >> >> > > >> >> Thank you. > > >> >> > > >> >> -- > > >> >> Shamil > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > >> >> dba-VB mailing list > > >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > dba-VB mailing list > > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> dba-VB mailing list > > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 04:08:20 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and All, I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 05:02:25 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:02:25 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 27 05:29:17 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:29:17 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all This really caused me a headache, and even when I found out as described here that the connection string is stored in the settings too, I still couldn't open the datasets as described here: https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/Workaround.aspx?FeedbackID=113567 However, this morning after a restart it suddenly worked. This issue is not common as in "real life" we all would attach to the same database, thus the issue would be moot. Despite all the trouble with the source code system - it took some time to get going - I like it very much including VisualSVN. It is extremely convenient to have the tiny green/yellow/red balls juxtaposed the normal icons - at a glance you can see which files have been changed. Sometimes you need a kick to get started and I will for sure follow this route and set up my own server for new projects as I work both from home and from the office. Also, external assistance could be called easily! /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 26-03-2009 17:48 >>> Hi SCRUM Team and all, OK, this should: Right-Click Project name -> Properties -> Settings -> NorthwindNETConnectionString with setting value = Data Source=HAMBURG\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True which should be edited and then app.config's sestion is getting (re-)generated. But as far as I can see the value from app.config is not used by strongly-typed datasets - instead hardcoded value from Northwind.NET.FE -> Properties -> Settings.Designer.cs is used... We can keep replacing each other connection strings if we will be commiting Settings.Designer.cs and app.config - IOW better not commit them if we do not introduce new settings. In any event take anote that if you are getting trouble opening say CategoriesForm then you have to edit connection string in project settings not in app.config. Sorry for confusion I introduced. (I must say I rarely use strongly typed datasets but this issue/subject is another story we can talk in half a year probably - maybe in that time I will become adept of strongly typed datasets and ADO.NET Entity Framework and I will forget my current preferences of using custom object models with as little ADO.NET as possibel and without any strongly typed datasets at all... Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 27 05:32:12 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... Message-ID: Hi Shamil I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 06:35:25 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:35:25 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav and SCRUM Team, The issue was that in app.config we have got somehow renamed Northwind.NET.FE.Properties.Settings.NorthwindNETConnectionString to NNNorthwind.NET.FE.Properties.Settings.NorthwindNETConnectionString watch two addiional letters 'NNN' added in the beginning... The fact is that when you change connection string in app.config it's OK and good enough for datasets to work/use this connection string. But it still isn't changed in application settings. If (as we have got) the connection string name is renamed in app.config then Visual Studio (e.g. when you try to preview datasets' data) uses default value from settings - and this value is hardcoded on last edit and compile of application settings (via project properties-> settings designer) etc. Visual Studio has several such "points of confusion" because it uses parts of the source project "compiled on the fly" in *design mode*: strongly typed datasets are just C# classes and when they are used in design mode they get compiled and they use settings which are loaded from app.config if corresponding app.config value is present, and it was absent in our case - hence Visual Studio used hardcoded value... Moreover in runtime {{executable file name}}.config file is used to load settings - in our case this is Northwind.NET.FE.exe.config (check \Bin folder) - this file is generated by VS on project rebuilding. (I didn't put this file under source code control as everybody gets their own vesion of this file when they recompile/rebuild solution and this happens every time you do a change to your code and then start application from within visual studion with or wothout debugging. Some more information: there are different *scopes* of settings as you can see in settings design window: - Application and User. When one will try to find how this works they usually get lost (as I do :)) - when you save User scope settings when using your app in runtime mode they *do get saved* but not in {{executable file name}}.config - they are saved somewhere on your system in your windows current user area - I still can't find where - do you? Visual Studio and .NET Framework are huge and it takes some time to get used to them - I'm working with them for fifth year and still see that there comes a lot of new stuff to learn as opposite to MS Access when I was at "guru level" in less than two years of using MS Access application in actual development - I suppose that "guru level" with .NET Framework and VS is unacheivable in one's lifetime :) - and I feel OK with that :)))... Let's discuss actively the issues as the subject one then we will proceed quicker - as I have written here several times: please questions everything you see coming from here, especially if it doesn't work as expected... (as I noted I didn't use strongly typed datastes that much with .NET and I didn't use standard handling of settings in VS because they partially are "black boxes" in some parts but for this project to avoid a lot of manual coding we'd better use these "black boxes")... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. This is how strongly typed dataset gets connection string value from settings, and settings load that value from app.config if it's present there AFAIU or use hardcoded value if it's absent - the latter happended in our case with two additional letters 'NN' getting in front of connection string name in app.config: DataModelDataSet.Designer.cs ============================ .... [global::System.Diagnostics.DebuggerNonUserCodeAttribute()] private void InitConnection() { this._connection = new global::System.Data.SqlClient.SqlConnection(); this._connection.ConnectionString = global::Northwind.NET.FE.Properties.Settings.Default.NorthwindNETConnectionString; } ... Settings.Designer.cs ===================== namespace Northwind.NET.FE.Properties { [global::System.Runtime.CompilerServices.CompilerGeneratedAttribute()] [global::System.CodeDom.Compiler.GeneratedCodeAttribute("Microsoft.VisualStudio.Editors.SettingsDesigner.SettingsSingleFileGenerator", "9.0.0.0")] internal sealed partial class Settings : global::System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase { private static Settings defaultInstance = ((Settings)(global::System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase.Synchronized(new Settings()))); public static Settings Default { get { return defaultInstance; } } [global::System.Configuration.ApplicationScopedSettingAttribute()] [global::System.Diagnostics.DebuggerNonUserCodeAttribute()] [global::System.Configuration.SpecialSettingAttribute(global::System.Configuration.SpecialSetting.ConnectionString)] [global::System.Configuration.DefaultSettingValueAttribute("Data Source=HAMBURG\\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True" + ";Language=English")] public string NorthwindNETConnectionString { get { return ((string)(this["NorthwindNETConnectionString"])); } } -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: " Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:29:17 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hi SCRUM Team and all > > This really caused me a headache, and even when I found out as described here that the connection string is stored in the settings too, I still couldn't open the datasets as described here: > > https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/Workaround.aspx?FeedbackID=113567 > > However, this morning after a restart it suddenly worked. > > This issue is not common as in "real life" we all would attach to the same database, thus the issue would be moot. > > Despite all the trouble with the source code system - it took some time to get going - I like it very much including VisualSVN. It is extremely convenient to have the tiny green/yellow/red balls juxtaposed the normal icons - at a glance you can see which files have been changed. > Sometimes you need a kick to get started and I will for sure follow this route and set up my own server for new projects as I work both from home and from the office. Also, external assistance could be called easily! > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 26-03-2009 17:48 >>> > > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > OK, this should: > > Right-Click Project name -> Properties -> Settings -> NorthwindNETConnectionString > > with setting value = > > Data Source=HAMBURG\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True > > which should be edited and then app.config's sestion is getting (re-)generated. But as far as I can see the value from app.config is not used by strongly-typed datasets - instead hardcoded value from > > Northwind.NET.FE -> Properties -> Settings.Designer.cs is used... > > We can keep replacing each other connection strings if we will be commiting > > Settings.Designer.cs and app.config - IOW better not commit them if we do not introduce new settings. > > In any event take anote that if you are getting trouble opening say CategoriesForm then you have to edit connection string in project settings not in app.config. > > Sorry for confusion I introduced. (I must say I rarely use strongly typed datasets but this issue/subject is another story we can talk in half a year probably - maybe in that time I will become adept of strongly typed datasets and ADO.NET Entity Framework and I will forget my current preferences of using custom object models with as little ADO.NET as possibel and without any strongly typed datasets at all... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 06:42:57 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:42:57 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, Gustav, thank you. I will make then Orders tomorrow morning. Let me note that Employee form has some pics to load from files (when they are present) we have None such pics currently - do you plan to add some (using ones from Access Northwind?) - maybe just one fake pic - that would be enough for this version. If you plan to add some pics please put them into \Pictures (or \Images) subfolder of \Bin folder then you can get the full path to this folder using Northwind.NET.Utilities.Context.ExecutingAssemblyFolderName + @"Pictures\" Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi Shamil > > I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... > > Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 06:50:55 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 07:50:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... References: Message-ID: <65CCBA9CCC82415C865F74FD8C64017E@Mattys> Hi Shamil, Please do accept it as done. My Northwind Traders mdt won't materialize, so I don't have any idea what any of the forms should look like, so I rushed to get the structure of the form complete so that I wouldn't hold up the team. If there are formatting issues or code to do, I will do it in following weeks. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 5:08 AM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are > commited to our SCC server. > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" > state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to > fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely > "DONE") > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - > so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 27 07:55:56 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:55:56 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... Message-ID: Hi Shamil I've got the pictures and will include them. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 12:42 >>> OK, Gustav, thank you. I will make then Orders tomorrow morning. Let me note that Employee form has some pics to load from files (when they are present) we have None such pics currently - do you plan to add some (using ones from Access Northwind?) - maybe just one fake pic - that would be enough for this version. If you plan to add some pics please put them into \Pictures (or \Images) subfolder of \Bin folder then you can get the full path to this folder using Northwind.NET.Utilities.Context.ExecutingAssemblyFolderName + @"Pictures\" Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi Shamil > > I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... > > Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 08:15:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:15:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, OK, thank you. Please put them under source control too - \Bin folder and \Bin Logs folder are put in there but that's it, and when new files are added in \Bin folder it could be needed to manually set checkmark for them while commiting your changes/additions. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:55:56 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi Shamil > > I've got the pictures and will include them. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 12:42 >>> > OK, Gustav, thank you. > > I will make then Orders tomorrow morning. > > Let me note that Employee form has some pics to load from files (when they are present) we have None such pics currently - do you plan to add some (using ones from Access Northwind?) - maybe just one fake pic - that would be enough for this version. > > If you plan to add some pics please put them into \Pictures (or \Images) subfolder of \Bin folder then you can get the full path to this folder using > > Northwind.NET.Utilities.Context.ExecutingAssemblyFolderName + @"Pictures\" > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > Hi Shamil > > > > I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... > > > > Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: dba-VB > > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > > > > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > > > > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > > > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 08:50:48 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:50:48 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: Message-ID: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. "Object Not Instantiated" blah! I reverted to my previous form using SVN. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 09:34:02 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:34:02 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Message-ID: I can't spend any more time, have to go to dentist - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked > on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. > > Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton > and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. > "Object Not Instantiated" blah! > > I reverted to my previous form using SVN. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 12:58:58 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:58:58 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBEZXNp?= =?koi8-r?b?Z24gTm90ZQ==?= In-Reply-To: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> References: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, When you do renaming buttons that should work - you get new button name but still old name of event procedure but code shoudl compile and this event procedure should work. I guess you could have made some other edits, which resulted in design time error message. Please don't give up when you'll see all that "Object Not Instantiated" messages etc. - just type CTRL+SHIFT+B to rebuild solution and then Ctrl+\, Ctrl+E to show "Errors List" window and from the latter window by clicking on its entries you csn go directly to the code lines resulting in that error messages - and edit/fix code manually.... Master these skills now when the project is simple... WinForm code in VS2008 consists from two standard code files constituting *one* class: 1. {{FormName}}.cs - part of partial form class to implement custom logic 2. {{FormName}}.Designer.cs - part of partial form class used by form designer on design time as well as to instantiate form on runtime - have a look what code you have for Form1 and button1 control with Cick event having its empty event procedure: Form1.cs ========= public partial class Form1 : Form { ... private void button1_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) { } } Form1.Designer.cs ================== private void InitializeComponent() { this.button1 = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); ... // // button1 // this.button1.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); this.button1.Name = "button1"; this.button1.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); this.button1.TabIndex = 0; this.button1.Text = "button1"; this.button1.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; this.button1.Click += new System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); // ... When you rename button1 to addProductButton you'll get ... this.addProductButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); ... // // addProductButton // this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; this.addProductButton.Text = "button1"; this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; this.addProductButton.Click += new System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); ... You can go and rename the rest manually like that: Form1.cs ========= public partial class Form1 : Form { ... private void addProductButton_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) { } } Form1.Designer.cs ================== private void InitializeComponent() { this.addProductsButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); .... this.SuspendLayout(); // // addProductButton // this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; this.addProductButton.Text = "Add Product"; this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; this.addProductButton.Click += new System.EventHandler(this.addProductButton_Click); ... and everything should work OK. I'm doing such renamings almost automatically when needed. There are other ways to fix this issue. Please note control names are started from lowerCase and use camelCase - that's a used by most of the developers namng convention recommended by MS. Once again please do such renaming several times in a test project or directly in our main project - don't be afarid doing that - it's a usual practice. Note that in designer part of code the code is usually hidden in VS2008 because of using #region Windows Form Designer generated code .... #endregion Sorry I can't write in all the details - such writing takes a lot of time... Note (as in the case with strongly typed datasets we discussed here in another thread) there is Design and Run-Time modes for many parts of code you develop under VS - but some code (as for forms) can be changed manually while the other (as for strongly typed datasets) should be better kept untouched to not get your project heavily screwed... For forms all the design information is stored in code and interpreted/executed by VS designers on design time but for strtongly typed datasets there are also some xml files keeping those datasets attributes and properties and those xml files are used by VS to generate C# code used on runtime.... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:50:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked > on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. > > Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton > and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. > "Object Not Instantiated" blah! > > I reverted to my previous form using SVN. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 13:07:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:58 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Message-ID: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> Thanks, Shamil If I keep making you write, you'll have enough for a book soon :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > > Hi Mike, > > When you do renaming buttons that should work - you get new button name > but still old name of event procedure but code shoudl compile and this > event procedure should work. > > I guess you could have made some other edits, which resulted in design > time error message. > > Please don't give up when you'll see all that "Object Not Instantiated" > messages etc. - just type > > CTRL+SHIFT+B to rebuild solution and then > > Ctrl+\, Ctrl+E to show "Errors List" window > > and from the latter window by clicking on its entries you csn go directly > to the code lines resulting in that error messages - and edit/fix code > manually.... > > Master these skills now when the project is simple... > > WinForm code in VS2008 consists from two standard code files constituting > *one* class: > > 1. {{FormName}}.cs - part of partial form class to implement custom logic > 2. {{FormName}}.Designer.cs - part of partial form class used by form > designer on design time as well as to instantiate form on runtime - have a > look what code you have for Form1 and button1 control with Cick event > having its empty event procedure: > > Form1.cs > ========= > > public partial class Form1 : Form > { > ... > private void button1_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) > { > > } > } > > > Form1.Designer.cs > ================== > > private void InitializeComponent() > { > this.button1 = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); > ... > // > // button1 > // > this.button1.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); > this.button1.Name = "button1"; > this.button1.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); > this.button1.TabIndex = 0; > this.button1.Text = "button1"; > this.button1.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; > this.button1.Click += new > System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); > // > > ... > > > When you rename button1 to addProductButton you'll get > ... > this.addProductButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); > ... > // > // addProductButton > // > this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, > 46); > this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; > this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); > this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; > this.addProductButton.Text = "button1"; > this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; > this.addProductButton.Click += new > System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); > > ... > > You can go and rename the rest manually like that: > > Form1.cs > ========= > > public partial class Form1 : Form > { > ... > private void addProductButton_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) > { > > } > } > > > Form1.Designer.cs > ================== > > private void InitializeComponent() > { > this.addProductsButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); > .... > this.SuspendLayout(); > // > // addProductButton > // > this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, > 46); > this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; > this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); > this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; > this.addProductButton.Text = "Add Product"; > this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; > this.addProductButton.Click += new > System.EventHandler(this.addProductButton_Click); > > ... > > and everything should work OK. > > I'm doing such renamings almost automatically when needed. > There are other ways to fix this issue. > Please note control names are started from lowerCase and use camelCase - > that's a used by most of the developers namng convention recommended by > MS. > > Once again please do such renaming several times in a test project or > directly in our main project - don't be afarid doing that - it's a usual > practice. > > Note that in designer part of code the code is usually hidden in VS2008 > because of using > > #region Windows Form Designer generated code > .... > #endregion > > Sorry I can't write in all the details - such writing takes a lot of > time... > > Note (as in the case with strongly typed datasets we discussed here in > another thread) there is Design and Run-Time modes for many parts of code > you develop under VS - but some code (as for forms) can be changed > manually while the other (as for strongly typed datasets) should be better > kept untouched to not get your project heavily screwed... > > For forms all the design information is stored in code and > interpreted/executed by VS designers on design time but for strtongly > typed datasets there are also some xml files keeping those datasets > attributes and properties and those xml files are used by VS to generate > C# code used on runtime.... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:50:48 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > >> Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked >> on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. >> >> Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton >> and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. >> "Object Not Instantiated" blah! >> >> I reverted to my previous form using SVN. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 13:23:16 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:23:16 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBEZXNp?= =?koi8-r?b?Z24gTm90ZQ==?= In-Reply-To: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> References: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you, Mike, Let's assume this is a training in writing :) - I mean I'd prefer to write on a bit more advanced C# development subjects then with time that writtten stuff could be collected into an original book probaby. I must also say that the quantity and quality of stuff written about .NET Framework and C# and OOP etc. is so enormous nowadays that to find some original subjects to write about is a real issue - almost everything looks as deja' vue... Sorry for some mistypings but I'm typing directly in plain text without spell-checker in my Internet e-mail client... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Thanks, Shamil > If I keep making you write, you'll have enough for a book soon :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 13:38:37 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:38:37 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> Message-ID: It isn't deja vu - I'm 7 or 8 years overdue for .Net, that's all. Thanks again, Shamil PS - let me know when one can see the top of the mountain! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Thank you, Mike, > > Let's assume this is a training in writing :) - I mean I'd prefer to write > on a bit more advanced C# development subjects then with time that > writtten stuff could be collected into an original book probaby. I must > also say that the quantity and quality of stuff written about .NET > Framework and C# and OOP etc. is so enormous nowadays that to find some > original subjects to write about is a real issue - almost everything looks > as deja' vue... > > Sorry for some mistypings but I'm typing directly in plain text without > spell-checker in my Internet e-mail client... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:58 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > >> Thanks, Shamil >> If I keep making you write, you'll have enough for a book soon :) >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 30 11:49:05 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:49:05 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team So how are we proceeding? I'm a little unsure what the next step is ... /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 25-03-2009 18:18 >>> Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 30 15:44:10 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:44:10 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team As Shamil has written several times, we have to learn new techniques and tools. TortoiseSVN/VirtualSVN has been an eye-opener to me - it is a pleasure to work with and if you never before have use a versioning system for your code, this is your chance. To me it is double fun as I work both at home, from a laptop and at the office. Previously I just copied the complete solution folder to and from an FTP folder - now I can just open VS and in a minute I have al updates from wherever they were made! I really appreciate the time Shamil has taken to get this going - I know very well have much time it takes to research and test and set up. The Employee form was a bit late - I had some troubles with it, but Shamil came up with a good solution for storing the pictures. How are you doing Doug and John? Can you also open and download the pictures of the employees? /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 30-03-2009 18:49 >>> Hi SCRUM Team So how are we proceeding? I'm a little unsure what the next step is ... /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 25-03-2009 18:18 >>> Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. From marklbreen at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 14:01:36 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:01:36 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Gustav, Thanks for the update, I also fear that I may have some tasks that I should be doing, but am not. I guess that I could attempt to get the current code version and review it as Product Owner, but somehow, I fear that I may not be supposed to 'look behind the curtin' until it is ready. So, currently I have no work to do, anyone may correct me if I have this wrong. I am also using the SCCS at the moment, on another project, and getting more and more pleased with how well it works. What I have not delved into yet, is the concept of branches and trunks, perhaps I should put that on the list. Also, we will eventually need to store the db in source control also. I tried a a few years ago to get a fast way to do that, but did not really achieve what I wanted. Of course one method is that I could place the db on the same server as the SCCS but if we do that, it must have some element of care taken, so that one developer does not break the other work. It may not be urgent, but for sure we will eventually need a protected db that is there for each developer to try out major versions of his work. For the minor versions, he can work in his own local machine. This then brings the other arkward issue of connection strings, which I find to be a pain when I have many systems to work with, and to test code. What is great about SVN and the other tools is they are so good and they are free. that is amazing. Thanks Mark 2009/3/30 Gustav Brock > Hi SCRUM Team > > As Shamil has written several times, we have to learn new techniques and > tools. TortoiseSVN/VirtualSVN has been an eye-opener to me - it is a > pleasure to work with and if you never before have use a versioning system > for your code, this is your chance. To me it is double fun as I work both at > home, from a laptop and at the office. Previously I just copied the complete > solution folder to and from an FTP folder - now I can just open VS and in a > minute I have al updates from wherever they were made! > > I really appreciate the time Shamil has taken to get this going - I know > very well have much time it takes to research and test and set up. > > The Employee form was a bit late - I had some troubles with it, but Shamil > came up with a good solution for storing the pictures. > > How are you doing Doug and John? Can you also open and download the > pictures of the employees? > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 30-03-2009 18:49 >>> > Hi SCRUM Team > > So how are we proceeding? > I'm a little unsure what the next step is ... > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 25-03-2009 18:18 >>> > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 31 16:45:27 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:45:27 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: Message-ID: <2D4BC8938DED4924AB557F977E5E0C0B@Mattys> I hope no one is waiting on me ... ? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 05:26:30 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:26:30 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM and C# Message-ID: Hello Gustav, Mike, John, Doug, Are you here in dba-VB? Andy asked us to switch to this list as the subject is a kind of off-topic for Access-D. Let's have posting/dicussing the subject topics only here in dba-VB? Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 05:46:12 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:46:12 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum Message-ID: Hi Shamil No problem for me with TargetProcess and five members. And if "lurkers" are allowed, it would be fine. Which tool is best I really will leave to you as I don't know what factors are important. I think, however, that it must be free to establish and use. /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 12:17:14 >>> Hi Gustav, 5 team members shoudl be optimal for this first project. Additional Access-D members who wanted to join could play the role of ProductOwner/stakeholders/users. And in the next project we can try to extend the team. TargetProcess currently looks the best SCRUM/agile project management/tracking tools for me because of the free community edition with the complete functionality and because it's ASP.NET based. But of course we have to look how it works when installed on ASP.NET hosting server: it looks good on demos, if could be not so good (slow) when used from Internet. If that will not work then we can look for some alternative and meanwhile keep ProdcutBacklog and BurnDown task list and other tracking info manually as for this small project and 5 team members that woudl be not that much additional work... Maybe we can just use MS Live or Google groupwork/teamwork features... But TargetProcess being dedicated for SCRUM/agile process and have good credentials looks the first candidate to use now... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:18:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum > Hi Shamil > > But wouldn't it be dangerous to rely on TargetProcess Community Edition and only five free licenses? If a sixth member would join (you aimed for 7 +/-2 members) we all will have to pay $249 which I think is not likely to be accepted. > > I installed Popfly (very easy). It integrates directly into Visual Studio as a menu entry - couldn't be easier. If it fits the purpose, of course, which I can't tell. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > Thank you, Doug, > > Now we have 5 team members! :) > > Gustav, > Mike, > John, > Doug, > Shamil > > And the team is complete for this first project as we plan to use TargetProcess SCRUM/agile management softwarem which free community edition has only five free licenses. I have got this edition already and I plan to install it within this week on my ASP.NET hosting site (because I do not have server side access to thsi ASP.NEt hosting site the installation needs some manual work). From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 05:58:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:58:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, Gustav. Let's wait for Mike, John and Doug to appear here and then set and prioritize the short list of preparatory tasks to fullfll before we start actual teamwork pogramming of MS Access NorthWind to .NET Winforms + MS SQL NorthWind conversion project. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:46:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > Hi Shamil > > No problem for me with TargetProcess and five members. And if "lurkers" are allowed, it would be fine. > > Which tool is best I really will leave to you as I don't know what factors are important. I think, however, that it must be free to establish and use. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 12:17:14 >>> > > Hi Gustav, > > 5 team members shoudl be optimal for this first project. > > Additional Access-D members who wanted to join could play the role of ProductOwner/stakeholders/users. > > And in the next project we can try to extend the team. > > TargetProcess currently looks the best SCRUM/agile project management/tracking tools for me because of the free community edition with the complete functionality and because it's ASP.NET based. > > But of course we have to look how it works when installed on ASP.NET hosting server: it looks good on demos, if could be not so good (slow) when used from Internet. > > If that will not work then we can look for some alternative and meanwhile keep ProdcutBacklog and BurnDown task list and other tracking info manually as for this small project and 5 team members that woudl be not that much additional work... > > Maybe we can just use MS Live or Google groupwork/teamwork features... > > But TargetProcess being dedicated for SCRUM/agile process and have good credentials looks the first candidate to use now... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:18:27 +0100 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum > > > Hi Shamil > > > > But wouldn't it be dangerous to rely on TargetProcess Community Edition and only five free licenses? If a sixth member would join (you aimed for 7 +/-2 members) we all will have to pay $249 which I think is not likely to be accepted. > > > > I installed Popfly (very easy). It integrates directly into Visual Studio as a menu entry - couldn't be easier. If it fits the purpose, of course, which I can't tell. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > > > Thank you, Doug, > > > > Now we have 5 team members! :) > > > > Gustav, > > Mike, > > John, > > Doug, > > Shamil > > > > And the team is complete for this first project as we plan to use TargetProcess SCRUM/agile management softwarem which free community edition has only five free licenses. I have got this edition already and I plan to install it within this week on my ASP.NET hosting site (because I do not have server side access to thsi ASP.NEt hosting site the installation needs some manual work). > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 07:37:09 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 08:37:09 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum References: Message-ID: I'm here. Hoping that we can just use C# Express ... - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > > OK, Gustav. > > Let's wait for Mike, John and Doug to appear here and then set and > prioritize the short list of preparatory tasks to fullfll before we start > actual teamwork pogramming of MS Access NorthWind to .NET Winforms + MS > SQL NorthWind conversion project. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:46:12 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > >> Hi Shamil >> >> No problem for me with TargetProcess and five members. And if "lurkers" >> are allowed, it would be fine. >> >> Which tool is best I really will leave to you as I don't know what >> factors are important. I think, however, that it must be free to >> establish and use. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 12:17:14 >>> >> >> Hi Gustav, >> >> 5 team members shoudl be optimal for this first project. >> >> Additional Access-D members who wanted to join could play the role of >> ProductOwner/stakeholders/users. >> >> And in the next project we can try to extend the team. >> >> TargetProcess currently looks the best SCRUM/agile project >> management/tracking tools for me because of the free community edition >> with the complete functionality and because it's ASP.NET based. >> >> But of course we have to look how it works when installed on ASP.NET >> hosting server: it looks good on demos, if could be not so good (slow) >> when used from Internet. >> >> If that will not work then we can look for some alternative and meanwhile >> keep ProdcutBacklog and BurnDown task list and other tracking info >> manually as for this small project and 5 team members that woudl be not >> that much additional work... >> >> Maybe we can just use MS Live or Google groupwork/teamwork features... >> >> But TargetProcess being dedicated for SCRUM/agile process and have good >> credentials looks the first candidate to use now... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Gustav Brock" >> To: >> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:18:27 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum >> >> > Hi Shamil >> > >> > But wouldn't it be dangerous to rely on TargetProcess Community Edition >> > and only five free licenses? If a sixth member would join (you aimed >> > for 7 +/-2 members) we all will have to pay $249 which I think is not >> > likely to be accepted. >> > >> > I installed Popfly (very easy). It integrates directly into Visual >> > Studio as a menu entry - couldn't be easier. If it fits the purpose, of >> > course, which I can't tell. >> > >> > /gustav >> > >> > >> > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> >> > >> > Thank you, Doug, >> > >> > Now we have 5 team members! :) >> > >> > Gustav, >> > Mike, >> > John, >> > Doug, >> > Shamil >> > >> > And the team is complete for this first project as we plan to use >> > TargetProcess SCRUM/agile management softwarem which free community >> > edition has only five free licenses. I have got this edition already >> > and I plan to install it within this week on my ASP.NET hosting site >> > (because I do not have server side access to thsi ASP.NEt hosting site >> > the installation needs some manual work). >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 08:01:34 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:01:34 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNjcnVtIGFuZCBDIw==?= In-Reply-To: <49ABD90C.5010408@colbyconsulting.com> References: <49ABD90C.5010408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John, Let's switch to dba-VB (this message crossposted there). OK. Our task now is to find a way how to handle the context when we have different VS and C# Express version. We can handle that I think - there are several ways how to do that - please all teh team members write here what VS or Express version you plan to use: Gustav Mike John Doug Shamil - 1st. VS2005 Prof. as it's important for ReportViewer control and John doesn't have VS2008 Standard. 2nd - VS2008 Prof. if everybody manages to get somehow at least VS2008 Standard version. Once again it's desirable to have the same .NET development development tools but in our case we I think can rather flexibly hanlde the contex with us having diffrenet versions. IOW my choise above is my context not my proposal to eveybody to get one or another of the above versions. Still unclear here does VS2005 Stabdard or VS2008 Standard build well the sample projects I posted the link of yesterday http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip Mike I did get you have Express version only - we will find how to hadle that context. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:03:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > Shamil, > > Professional edition costs a fair amount. Given that I make no money off of .Net (yet) I am unable > to spend on it. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Well, we can try to get this project done with 2005 and 2008 versions of VS hopefully Standard and Prof. version would be both OK. > > > > The best of course would be to get VS2008 Prof. for everybody (Standard editions would also qualify if it compiles well test solutions and allow to design .NET Report Viewer reports - http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB)) > > > > If Standard Edition doesn't allow to edit .NET Report Viewer reports then those reports can be placed in classlib, and the team members with Prof. Editions will design reports, the other team members will design forms - that should be possible... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jwcolby > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 00:05:48 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > > > >> The problem is that everyone needs to use the same environment. The Express version's code won't > >> run in VS and vice versa. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> > >> > >> William Hindman wrote: > >>> ...dl VS2008 Express for free instead ...you can't compile dlls or use > >>> add-ons with it but otherwise you should be able to contribute/participate > >>> without laying out a few hundred until you're certain its worthwhile for > >>> you. > >>> > >>> William > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------- > >>> From: "Mike Mattys" > >>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:37 PM > >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>> > >>>> I have neither. > >>>> I'll have to visit eBay > >>>> > >>>> - > >>>> Michael R Mattys > >>>> MapPoint and Database Dev > >>>> www.mattysconsulting.com > >>>> - > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Gustav Brock" > >>>> To: > >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:28 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> I have both VS2005 and VS2008 running, both in Standard version however. > >>>>> > >>>>> /gustav > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 01-03-2009 22:18:27 >>> > >>>>> Forwarded from Shamil who has some trouble with his AccessD mail account: > >>>>> > >>>>> *- > >>>>> > >>>>> Gustav and Mike do you have VS2005? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 08:01:25 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:01:25 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum Message-ID: Hi Michael Fine! Popfly should work with Express versions as well: http://www.popfly.com/Overview/Explorer.aspx /gustav >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 14:37:09 >>> I'm here. Hoping that we can just use C# Express ... - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 08:26:12 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:26:12 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum References: Message-ID: <849D391F39A148FFBD799B12EBFC973E@Mattys> Installed and signed up - where are we locating ourselves? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > Hi Michael > > Fine! > > Popfly should work with Express versions as well: > > http://www.popfly.com/Overview/Explorer.aspx > > /gustav > > >>>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 14:37:09 >>> > I'm here. > Hoping that we can just use C# Express ... > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 08:29:09 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:29:09 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Message-ID: Hi Shamil et al Here (great site, bookmark that): http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express versions. The 2008 version can be found here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the Express versions. According to this: http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. Could someone please check this out? /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> Hi Shamil They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample solutions http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also qualify as development evnironment. From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 08:51:36 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:51:36 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: <5AAE300AFD7041F9B4A4F5870249E650@Mattys> Well, some of this day will be spent on -> Windows Update Express SP1 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Shamil et al > > Here (great site, bookmark that): > > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > versions. > The 2008 version can be found here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > Express versions. > According to this: > > http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > Could someone please check this out? > > /gustav > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > Hi Shamil > > They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > /gustav > > >>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > solutions > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > qualify as development evnironment. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Mar 2 12:57:55 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:57:55 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] Scrum and C# In-Reply-To: References: <49ABD90C.5010408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <7E130D3AB22F44638EC87381BFB47C8E@murphy3234aaf1> Doug will use VS2008 Professional. I have VS 2005 and can reinstall if required. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# Hi John, Let's switch to dba-VB (this message crossposted there). OK. Our task now is to find a way how to handle the context when we have different VS and C# Express version. We can handle that I think - there are several ways how to do that - please all teh team members write here what VS or Express version you plan to use: Gustav Mike John Doug Shamil - 1st. VS2005 Prof. as it's important for ReportViewer control and John doesn't have VS2008 Standard. 2nd - VS2008 Prof. if everybody manages to get somehow at least VS2008 Standard version. Once again it's desirable to have the same .NET development development tools but in our case we I think can rather flexibly hanlde the contex with us having diffrenet versions. IOW my choise above is my context not my proposal to eveybody to get one or another of the above versions. Still unclear here does VS2005 Stabdard or VS2008 Standard build well the sample projects I posted the link of yesterday http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip Mike I did get you have Express version only - we will find how to hadle that context. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:03:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > Shamil, > > Professional edition costs a fair amount. Given that I make no money > off of .Net (yet) I am unable to spend on it. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Well, we can try to get this project done with 2005 and 2008 versions of VS hopefully Standard and Prof. version would be both OK. > > > > The best of course would be to get VS2008 Prof. for everybody > > (Standard editions would also qualify if it compiles well test > > solutions and allow to design .NET Report Viewer reports - > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB)) > > > > If Standard Edition doesn't allow to edit .NET Report Viewer reports then those reports can be placed in classlib, and the team members with Prof. Editions will design reports, the other team members will design forms - that should be possible... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jwcolby > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > > solving > > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 00:05:48 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > > > >> The problem is that everyone needs to use the same environment. > >> The Express version's code won't run in VS and vice versa. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> > >> > >> William Hindman wrote: > >>> ...dl VS2008 Express for free instead ...you can't compile dlls or > >>> use add-ons with it but otherwise you should be able to > >>> contribute/participate without laying out a few hundred until > >>> you're certain its worthwhile for you. > >>> > >>> William > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------- > >>> From: "Mike Mattys" > >>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:37 PM > >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>> > >>>> I have neither. > >>>> I'll have to visit eBay > >>>> > >>>> - > >>>> Michael R Mattys > >>>> MapPoint and Database Dev > >>>> www.mattysconsulting.com > >>>> - > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Gustav Brock" > >>>> To: > >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:28 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> I have both VS2005 and VS2008 running, both in Standard version however. > >>>>> > >>>>> /gustav > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 01-03-2009 22:18:27 >>> > >>>>> Forwarded from Shamil who has some trouble with his AccessD mail account: > >>>>> > >>>>> *- > >>>>> > >>>>> Gustav and Mike do you have VS2005? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 13:11:00 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:11:00 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: <5AAE300AFD7041F9B4A4F5870249E650@Mattys> Message-ID: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: Error 1 The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace 'Microsoft' (are you missing an assembly reference?) C:\ ... nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 2 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 3 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 4 Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has been successfully built. 0 0 Warning 5 The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs 59 0 Warning 6 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. Warning 7 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be found. Doesn't look too serious! :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > Windows Update > Express SP1 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> Hi Shamil et al >> >> Here (great site, bookmark that): >> >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ >> >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express >> versions. >> The 2008 version can be found here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en >> >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the >> Express versions. >> According to this: >> >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx >> >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en >> >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. >> >> Could someone please check this out? >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> >> Hi Shamil >> >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> >> >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample >> solutions >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) >> >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also >> qualify as development evnironment. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 15:21:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:21:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> References: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team and everybody, My congratulation to the SCRUM team that we got 5 team members! I have made new versions of solutions and also MS SQL 2005 db model. Here are downloads: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip Here is the copy on another server: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnetdbs.zip You can find three solutions now: - one for VS2005; - another for VS2008; - third one targeted for C# 2008 Express but prepared with VS2008 Prof. (based on William words that C# 2008 Express can't compile classlibs I have just made small Winforms FE app and used classlibs compiled by VS2008 Prof). These "tricks" caused by different versions of VS we have. You can find that I moved placeholder forms and reports into classlibs to make projects configiration which will allow Mike to just develop a form in C# Express and use the forms and reports from classlibs we develop in full VS versions. I have also set references for ReportViewer control v.9 for VS2008 and C# Express 2008 targeted solutuons. Mike could you please test how they work now on your system? (Hope they will work OK, "fingers crossed"). Please Mike try to compile VS2008 targeted solution and C# 2008 targeted solution under C# 2008 Express. If the first will compile, build and run OK then classlibs with Forms and Reports could be merged back to FE. And having Express, Standard and Professioanl editions will not result in excessive manual synchronization work. Who can try to build VS2005 sample solution under VS 2005 Standard and/or VS2008 sample under VS2008 Standard edition to see they compile OK and thefore some of us can have Standard Editons and some of us can have Professional editions to work on this project? Compiled apps now have the following main executables. VS2005 or VS2008 Prof or Standard (maybe C# 2008 Express will work just find with VS2008 Prof. solution) ================================= NorthWind.NET.FE.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll C# 2008 Express (but compiled here under VS2008 Prof) ================= NorthWind.NET.FE.Express.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll - just classlib dll Guys, may I ask now you to decide which development environmnet to use - we seems to be moving to 2008 versions Express, Standard, Prof (Gustav, Mike, Doug, Shamil), but John has VS2005 version only and can't get 2008 version. What can we do? - I'd follow your decision - the issue with having 2005 and 2008 versions is that 2008 has some new C# language etc. features and therefore downgrading forms/reports developed in 2008 versions could be an issue - I have never tried to do that downgrade. Maybe you can try to test how it works and if it works well then we can safely (with a little additonal work) use both VS2005 and VS2008 versions. Of we all can use 2005 versions? Another issue with reports develped in 2008 versions - they expected to be quite different from 2005 versions (but 2005 versions could be upgraded to 2008 versions smoothly). Database model in the above download is a proposal - I have made some changes after upsizing tables. I didn't upsize any queries because most of them will be developed differently I expect. I have also added timestamp fields to all tables - almost never used them before, wanted to try to use them in this project - if you think they are not needed then we can remove it. Please note that SCRUMMaster role, which I have committed to for this project is not as a manager, mentor, director - this is a facilitator role IOW you as a team make the final decicions - I can participate in making such decisions because I have to share SCRUMMaster and developer roles in this project but my voice/vote shouldn't have any more "weight" that your votes/voices. To move steadily forward we have to make decisions every day - small, not time consuming - spending approx. 1 hour a working day for this project (for me it's not yet the case here for this project as I'm spending more time on it every day currently but that's OK for now. Hope you're not missing your main business working for this project...) ... Please be more active - if you wanted to do all the further preparatory work when we will start the project - let it be so - then we can start next week - it may take more time if we will not align/find a way how to work with different version of VS, how to share files etc. before we start actual development... I think decision on selecting of VS versions and that we can work and share sources with that selection should be done in advance - if it will not work OK we will not be able to make this project developed effectively... May I ask you to make decisions on: - VS versions you will use and how to solve some discrepancy if that will be 2005 and 2006 versions Express, Standard and Professional; - how we share/synchronize projects: current options: PopFly, MS Live SkyDrive, Google, (after all we can "synchronize" them by just exchanging source files)... We (you) will have to make some other decisions in preparation the project after the two above made/tested. I can participate in discussions but I'd prefer to be a kind of "lurker" for several days now because: - this is not SCRUMMaster responsibility to force the team to make decisions; - I have made quite some proposals already - it's your turn now :)... FYI: I have here an important deadline and I have to work intensively on another project for the next three-four days. Maybe we can/should shift the project start date for additonal week? - I can get back into active mode in the end of this week... For the next three-four days I will be able to spend only one-two hours max, for this project, and I wanted to install TargetProcess during this time and to give it to you to use in the beginning of the next week to define together ProductBacklog (features) and to plan the first SCRUM Sprint etc... Please ask questions if needed on VS versions and other issues and I will try to answer promptly... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:11:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December > Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) > Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > Error 1 > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > 'Microsoft' > (are you missing an assembly reference?) > C:\ ... > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 2 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 3 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 4 > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please > make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this > type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has > been successfully built. 0 0 > > Warning 5 > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > 59 0 > > Warning 6 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > Warning 7 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be > found. > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > > Windows Update > > Express SP1 > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > >> > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > >> > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > >> > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > >> versions. > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > >> > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > >> Express versions. > >> According to this: > >> > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > >> > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > >> > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > >> > >> Could someone please check this out? > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > >> Hi Shamil > >> > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > >> > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > >> solutions > >> > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > >> > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > >> qualify as development evnironment. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 15:28:42 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:28:42 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Message-ID: Hi Michael That is because Shamil has referenced the 2005 ReportViewer and not the 2008 (version 9.0.0.0). You can install that as well (that is what I have, that's why I didn't see any errors) but I think you should await a comment from Shamil. /gustav >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 20:11 >>> I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: Error 1 The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace 'Microsoft' (are you missing an assembly reference?) C:\ ... nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 2 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 3 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 4 Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has been successfully built. 0 0 Warning 5 The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs 59 0 Warning 6 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. Warning 7 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be found. Doesn't look too serious! :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > Windows Update > Express SP1 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> Hi Shamil et al >> >> Here (great site, bookmark that): >> >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ >> >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express >> versions. >> The 2008 version can be found here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en >> >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the >> Express versions. >> According to this: >> >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx >> >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en >> >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. >> >> Could someone please check this out? >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> >> Hi Shamil >> >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> >> >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample >> solutions >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) >> >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also >> qualify as development evnironment. >> From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 15:31:41 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:31:41 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Here (great site, bookmark that): > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ Yes, Gustav, I used it as one of the main sources while developing .NET ReportViewer Control reports. > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > Could someone please check this out? Mike? Could you please test? Do you need for that testing very simple project with just one placeholder WinForm and .NET ReportViewer control placeholder report - I can make it in VS2008 Prof. BTW, you can make such simple report by combining several sources from sample projects I have posted here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip with copy here: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:29:09 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Shamil et al > > Here (great site, bookmark that): > > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express versions. > The 2008 version can be found here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the Express versions. > According to this: > > http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > Could someone please check this out? > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > Hi Shamil > > They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample solutions > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also qualify as development evnironment. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:00:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:00:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, Yes, Gustav, I commented on that issue in my previous message and I posted links on new projects with 2008 versions referencing 2008 ReporViewer control I beleive. Maybe I'm pushing to go too quickly? Let's slow down - add another week (or more) for infrastructure preparation? Here is the link for a very simple VS2008 Prof. solution with one form and embedded reporViewer control (2008 version (9) I believe): http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/sse2008.zip and copy here: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/sse2008.zip They are prepared and compiled under VS2008. Gustav, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? If in both cases build, compile and run will be OK then we're almost done with defining how to handle VS versions differences. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:28:42 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Michael > > That is because Shamil has referenced the 2005 ReportViewer and not the 2008 (version 9.0.0.0). > > You can install that as well (that is what I have, that's why I didn't see any errors) but I think you should await a comment from Shamil. > > /gustav > > >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 20:11 >>> > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December > Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) > Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > Error 1 > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > 'Microsoft' > (are you missing an assembly reference?) > C:\ ... > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 2 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 3 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 4 > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please > make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this > type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has > been successfully built. 0 0 > > Warning 5 > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > 59 0 > > Warning 6 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > Warning 7 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be > found. > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > > Windows Update > > Express SP1 > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > >> > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > >> > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > >> > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > >> versions. > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > >> > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > >> Express versions. > >> According to this: > >> > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > >> > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > >> > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > >> > >> Could someone please check this out? > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > >> Hi Shamil > >> > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > >> > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > >> solutions > >> > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > >> > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > >> qualify as development evnironment. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:04:43 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:04:43 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <<< Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? >>> Sorry, Mike, I wanted to ask you to test this sample project compiling, building and running it under C# 2008 Express. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:00:03 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi All, > > Yes, Gustav, I commented on that issue in my previous message and I posted links on new projects with 2008 versions referencing 2008 ReporViewer control I beleive. > > Maybe I'm pushing to go too quickly? > Let's slow down - add another week (or more) for infrastructure preparation? > > Here is the link for a very simple VS2008 Prof. solution with one form and embedded reporViewer control (2008 version (9) I believe): > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/sse2008.zip > > and copy here: > > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/sse2008.zip > > They are prepared and compiled under VS2008. > > Gustav, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? > > Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? > > If in both cases build, compile and run will be OK then we're almost done with defining how to handle VS versions differences. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:28:42 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > Hi Michael > > > > That is because Shamil has referenced the 2005 ReportViewer and not the 2008 (version 9.0.0.0). > > > > You can install that as well (that is what I have, that's why I didn't see any errors) but I think you should await a comment from Shamil. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 20:11 >>> > > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December > > Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) > > Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > > Error 1 > > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > > 'Microsoft' > > (are you missing an assembly reference?) > > C:\ ... > > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > > [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > > > Warning 2 > > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > > > Warning 3 > > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > > > Warning 4 > > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please > > make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this > > type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has > > been successfully built. 0 0 > > > > Warning 5 > > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > > 59 0 > > > > Warning 6 > > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > > > Warning 7 > > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be > > found. > > > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > > > Windows Update > > > Express SP1 > > > > > > - > > > Michael R Mattys > > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > - > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > > >> > > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > > >> > > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > >> > > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > > >> versions. > > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > > >> > > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > >> > > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > > >> Express versions. > > >> According to this: > > >> > > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > >> > > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > >> > > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > >> > > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > >> > > >> Could someone please check this out? > > >> > > >> /gustav > > >> > > >> > > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > > >> Hi Shamil > > >> > > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > > >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > > >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > >> > > >> /gustav > > >> > > >> > > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > >> > > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > > >> solutions > > >> > > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > >> > > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > > >> qualify as development evnironment. > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 16:20:53 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:20:53 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. Still have errors. Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week or a month. This is my first jump. Let's just do it. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > <<< > Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? >>>> > Sorry, Mike, I wanted to ask you to test this sample project compiling, > building and running it under C# 2008 Express. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 16:27:16 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:27:16 -0000 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> >> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week or a month. Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. Who you gonna call! Max -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. Still have errors. Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week or a month. This is my first jump. Let's just do it. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 16:30:24 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:30:24 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <60998F538CBB42B7BABEF1E44D5F60F3@Mattys> Denis Sherman? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design >>> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > or a month. > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > Who you gonna call! > > > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > programming issues. > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 16:33:50 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:33:50 -0000 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: <60998F538CBB42B7BABEF1E44D5F60F3@Mattys> References: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> <60998F538CBB42B7BABEF1E44D5F60F3@Mattys> Message-ID: <49ac5ecd.0aa5660a.21de.ffff9608@mx.google.com> No, Ghost Busters! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys Sent: 02 March 2009 22:30 To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Denis Sherman? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design >>> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > or a month. > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > Who you gonna call! > > > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > programming issues. > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:34:57 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:34:57 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> References: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> Message-ID: :) -----Original Message----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:27:16 -0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > >> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > or a month. > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > Who you gonna call! > > > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > programming issues. > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 16:37:38 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:37:38 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: When I say I have errors, I mean when I press the Print Sales Report [Sales By Category] button. I used the exe also and got the same error. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:04 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> >> <<< >> Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 >> Standard? >>>>> >> Sorry, Mike, I wanted to ask you to test this sample project compiling, >> building and running it under C# 2008 Express. >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:59:44 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:59:44 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, I have to go to bed - it's 1:50a.m. here and tomorrow at around 7:30a.m. I have to drive my son to school: Let's me summarize current status of development tools of team members: - Gustav - VS2008 Standard - compiles OK VS2008 Prof. solutions with Report Viewer Control, can edit .rdlc reports in desigh mode - Doug - VS2008 Prof - OK; - Mike - C# 2008 Express Edition - still unclear is that version ready to be used to design reports but it should be ready to design forms - so probably we can have Mike designing forms and testing. - John - VS2005 Standard - no yet feedback how well this version compiles sample solution prepared using VS2005 Prof. John could you please test that by downloading samples from: this link http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip or this link http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip ? - Shamil - VS2005 Prof or VS2008 Prof. - both OK. ==== Does everybody have MS SQL 2005 Express or MS SQL 2005. MS SQL 2008 should be OK also. I have both MS SQL 2005 Express and Prof. versions - the backup I posted here http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip can be used with any of them. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:34:57 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:27:16 -0000 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > >> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > > or a month. > > > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > > Who you gonna call! > > > > > > > > Max > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > > programming issues. > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > > Still have errors. > > > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > > whether you give me a week or a month. > > > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 2 17:16:12 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:16:12 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:32 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Here (great site, bookmark that): > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ Yes, Gustav, I used it as one of the main sources while developing .NET ReportViewer Control reports. > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > Could someone please check this out? Mike? Could you please test? Do you need for that testing very simple project with just one placeholder WinForm and .NET ReportViewer control placeholder report - I can make it in VS2008 Prof. BTW, you can make such simple report by combining several sources from sample projects I have posted here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip with copy here: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:29:09 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Shamil et al > > Here (great site, bookmark that): > > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express versions. > The 2008 version can be found here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5 > -4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the Express versions. > According to this: > > http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-vi > ewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206 > -4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > Could someone please check this out? > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > Hi Shamil > > They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following > sample solutions > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also qualify as development evnironment. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 17:42:03 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:42:03 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> Thanks, Charlotte. I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) > to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express > versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support > add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. > > Charlotte Foust From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 20:04:18 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:04:18 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> Message-ID: VS2008 Pro w/MSDN ordered and overnighted. Still room on my belt to tighten ... if need be. :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Thanks, Charlotte. > I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlotte Foust" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) >> to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express >> versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support >> add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. >> >> Charlotte Foust > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Mar 2 21:11:33 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 19:11:33 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: References: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> Message-ID: <15AAAB37E3FF434C851C0A0F579EF3E8@murphy3234aaf1> I downloaded the files and the VS2008 version built fine. Is the Northwind database the regular Northwind file from Microsoft? If so I already have it installed for SQL Server 2005. Thank you all for allowing me to participate. This will be a learning experience for me. My recent coding background is VBA and VB.Net. C# seems readable but I have never built anything in it. Doug -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:22 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Hi SCRUM team and everybody, My congratulation to the SCRUM team that we got 5 team members! I have made new versions of solutions and also MS SQL 2005 db model. Here are downloads: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip Here is the copy on another server: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnetdbs.zip You can find three solutions now: - one for VS2005; - another for VS2008; - third one targeted for C# 2008 Express but prepared with VS2008 Prof. (based on William words that C# 2008 Express can't compile classlibs I have just made small Winforms FE app and used classlibs compiled by VS2008 Prof). These "tricks" caused by different versions of VS we have. You can find that I moved placeholder forms and reports into classlibs to make projects configiration which will allow Mike to just develop a form in C# Express and use the forms and reports from classlibs we develop in full VS versions. I have also set references for ReportViewer control v.9 for VS2008 and C# Express 2008 targeted solutuons. Mike could you please test how they work now on your system? (Hope they will work OK, "fingers crossed"). Please Mike try to compile VS2008 targeted solution and C# 2008 targeted solution under C# 2008 Express. If the first will compile, build and run OK then classlibs with Forms and Reports could be merged back to FE. And having Express, Standard and Professioanl editions will not result in excessive manual synchronization work. Who can try to build VS2005 sample solution under VS 2005 Standard and/or VS2008 sample under VS2008 Standard edition to see they compile OK and thefore some of us can have Standard Editons and some of us can have Professional editions to work on this project? Compiled apps now have the following main executables. VS2005 or VS2008 Prof or Standard (maybe C# 2008 Express will work just find with VS2008 Prof. solution) ================================= NorthWind.NET.FE.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll C# 2008 Express (but compiled here under VS2008 Prof) ================= NorthWind.NET.FE.Express.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll - just classlib dll Guys, may I ask now you to decide which development environmnet to use - we seems to be moving to 2008 versions Express, Standard, Prof (Gustav, Mike, Doug, Shamil), but John has VS2005 version only and can't get 2008 version. What can we do? - I'd follow your decision - the issue with having 2005 and 2008 versions is that 2008 has some new C# language etc. features and therefore downgrading forms/reports developed in 2008 versions could be an issue - I have never tried to do that downgrade. Maybe you can try to test how it works and if it works well then we can safely (with a little additonal work) use both VS2005 and VS2008 versions. Of we all can use 2005 versions? Another issue with reports develped in 2008 versions - they expected to be quite different from 2005 versions (but 2005 versions could be upgraded to 2008 versions smoothly). Database model in the above download is a proposal - I have made some changes after upsizing tables. I didn't upsize any queries because most of them will be developed differently I expect. I have also added timestamp fields to all tables - almost never used them before, wanted to try to use them in this project - if you think they are not needed then we can remove it. Please note that SCRUMMaster role, which I have committed to for this project is not as a manager, mentor, director - this is a facilitator role IOW you as a team make the final decicions - I can participate in making such decisions because I have to share SCRUMMaster and developer roles in this project but my voice/vote shouldn't have any more "weight" that your votes/voices. To move steadily forward we have to make decisions every day - small, not time consuming - spending approx. 1 hour a working day for this project (for me it's not yet the case here for this project as I'm spending more time on it every day currently but that's OK for now. Hope you're not missing your main business working for this project...) ... Please be more active - if you wanted to do all the further preparatory work when we will start the project - let it be so - then we can start next week - it may take more time if we will not align/find a way how to work with different version of VS, how to share files etc. before we start actual development... I think decision on selecting of VS versions and that we can work and share sources with that selection should be done in advance - if it will not work OK we will not be able to make this project developed effectively... May I ask you to make decisions on: - VS versions you will use and how to solve some discrepancy if that will be 2005 and 2006 versions Express, Standard and Professional; - how we share/synchronize projects: current options: PopFly, MS Live SkyDrive, Google, (after all we can "synchronize" them by just exchanging source files)... We (you) will have to make some other decisions in preparation the project after the two above made/tested. I can participate in discussions but I'd prefer to be a kind of "lurker" for several days now because: - this is not SCRUMMaster responsibility to force the team to make decisions; - I have made quite some proposals already - it's your turn now :)... FYI: I have here an important deadline and I have to work intensively on another project for the next three-four days. Maybe we can/should shift the project start date for additonal week? - I can get back into active mode in the end of this week... For the next three-four days I will be able to spend only one-two hours max, for this project, and I wanted to install TargetProcess during this time and to give it to you to use in the beginning of the next week to define together ProductBacklog (features) and to plan the first SCRUM Sprint etc... Please ask questions if needed on VS versions and other issues and I will try to answer promptly... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:11:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December Also > installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) Continued > installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > Error 1 > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > 'Microsoft' > (are you missing an assembly reference?) C:\ ... > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryRep > ort.Designer.cs [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 2 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly > exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may > get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 3 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly > exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may > get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 4 > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. > Please make sure that the assembly that contains this type is > referenced. If this type is a part of your development project, make > sure that the project has been successfully built. 0 0 > > Warning 5 > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCatego > ryReport.Designer.cs > 59 0 > > Warning 6 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > Warning 7 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not > be found. > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> Windows Update Express > > SP1 > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > >> > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > >> > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > >> > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the > >> Express versions. > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-6 > >> 1E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > >> > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in > >> the Express versions. > >> According to this: > >> > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report > >> -viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > >> > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c > >> 206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > >> > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > >> > >> Could someone please check this out? > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > >> Hi Shamil > >> > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is > >> running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and > >> reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > >> > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following > >> sample solutions > >> > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > >> > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > >> qualify as development evnironment. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 00:18:32 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:18:32 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> References: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> Message-ID: Chercher la femme! :) (And you'll get convinced/inspired to get VS2008 Prof. I mean :)) Thank you, Charlotte. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:42:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Thanks, Charlotte. > I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlotte Foust" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) > > to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express > > versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support > > add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 01:10:18 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:10:18 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Mike! > Still room on my belt to tighten ... if need be. :) The same here :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:04:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > VS2008 Pro w/MSDN ordered and overnighted. > Still room on my belt to tighten ... if need be. :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:42 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Thanks, Charlotte. > > I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Charlotte Foust" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > > Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) > >> to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express > >> versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support > >> add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. > >> > >> Charlotte Foust > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 01:36:42 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:36:42 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) Doug: VS2008 Prof. John: VS2005 Standard Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. ==== Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? Any thoughts on that issue? Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 3 03:34:20 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John using the free Express edition no matter what. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> Hi Gustav at all, If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh the list of links to visit etc. Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). No, we do not need Add-ins I think. If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express solutiuon. I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed on the same PC? I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip (copy http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) The above archives have: - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 Report Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be fine for. > Could you explain that please? > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those capable of that? > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > Hi All, > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: VS2005 Standard > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > ==== > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 04:09:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:09:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav at all, OK. We have somebody to test soltuion for C# 2008 Express - the ones I posted here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip then we can see what arhcitecture the sample project shoudl have to let John cooperate having just C# 2008 Express. Maybe there is somewhere VMWare VM with Windows XP (or other WIndows OS) and C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express - then I can use such VM here over weekend to test. We probably need one more week for preparation of John's environmnet to fit the other team members? John? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> > > Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John using the free Express edition no matter what. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> > > Hi Gustav at all, > > If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh the list of links to visit etc. > Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). > > No, we do not need Add-ins I think. > > If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express solutiuon. > > I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? > > Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed on the same PC? > > I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. > > For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > (copy > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) > > The above archives have: > > - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; > > - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 Report > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi Shamil > > > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be fine for. > > Could you explain that please? > > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those capable of that? > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > > Hi All, > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > John: VS2005 Standard > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > ==== > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 09:07:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:07:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, I have got VMMare Server running on my Vista Ultimate PC with one WinXP Sp2 VM. The issue is that Vista doesn't see this XP VM, and XP VM doesn't see the Vista host/outer world. Do you have any info how to tune WMWare Server network settings (using "Manage Virual Networks" feature?) to get it visible from Vista host and vice versa? I have also got downloaded "All-in-one-CD" for All 2008 Express Editions, and I have got ReportViewer 2008 Control redistrubutables. If nobody will have ready to use C# 2008 Express environment to test these samples: > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip then I will try to test them over weekend installing C# 2008 Express on WinXP VM to see what architecture our project should have to have a team member with only C# 2008 Express working with us having VS2008 Standard or Prof. editions. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:09:12 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi Gustav at all, > > OK. > > We have somebody to test soltuion for C# 2008 Express - the ones I posted here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > then we can see what arhcitecture the sample project shoudl have to let John cooperate having just C# 2008 Express. > > Maybe there is somewhere VMWare VM with Windows XP (or other WIndows OS) and C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express - then I can use such VM here over weekend to test. > > We probably need one more week for preparation of John's environmnet to fit the other team members? > > John? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi Shamil > > > > < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> > > > > Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John using the free Express edition no matter what. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> > > > > Hi Gustav at all, > > > > If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh the list of links to visit etc. > > Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). > > > > No, we do not need Add-ins I think. > > > > If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express solutiuon. > > > > I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? > > > > Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed on the same PC? > > > > I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. > > > > For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): > > > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > (copy > > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) > > > > The above archives have: > > > > - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; > > > > - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 Report > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Hi Shamil > > > > > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > > > > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be fine for. > > > Could you explain that please? > > > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those capable of that? > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > > John: VS2005 Standard > > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > > ==== > > > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? > > > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 10:28:40 2009 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:28:40 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shamil, Generally the network errors may be due to the settings in your VM for the nic card. The settings are to set the nic as Bridged, NAT or Host-Only. Setting as Bridge makes the VM act like a standalone pc where you can communicate from your host to the guest and the guest back to the host as if each was it's own hardware pc. Setting it as NAT, then you have essentially a firewall on the guest pc and you can't reach it from the host you can only go from guest to host. Host-Only is a nice feature in that the guest pc can only talk to the host. The host pc will be able to work as normal, and will also have access to the guest pc via the network. my typical settings are to setup vm workstations as bridged. btw, I was reading through this thread and while I am not familiar enough with C# I'd like to observe the project as I know I'd learn a great deal from it. I do have VS2008 std. -Francisco http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... 2009/3/3 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Hi Gustav at all, > > OK. > > We have somebody to test soltuion for C# 2008 Express - the ones I posted > here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > then we can see what arhcitecture the sample project shoudl have to let > John cooperate having just C# 2008 Express. > > Maybe there is somewhere VMWare VM with Windows XP (or other WIndows OS) > and C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express - then I can use such VM here over > weekend to test. > > We probably need one more week for preparation of John's environmnet to fit > the other team members? > > John? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > - Show quoted text - > To: > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi Shamil > > > > < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> > > > > Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to > qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send > from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John > using the free Express edition no matter what. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> > > > > Hi Gustav at all, > > > > If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that > would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one > hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh > the list of links to visit etc. > > Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? > (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). > > > > No, we do not need Add-ins I think. > > > > If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we > can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll > and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express > solutiuon. > > > > I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? > > > > Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express > plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed > on the same PC? > > > > I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib > with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. > > > > For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some > fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): > > > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > (copy > > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) > > > > The above archives have: > > > > - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one > of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; > > > > - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 > Report > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Hi Shamil > > > > > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the > developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > > > > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really > is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be > fine for. > > > Could you explain that please? > > > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those > capable of that? > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > > John: VS2005 Standard > > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > > ==== > > > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 > Standard? > > > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If > more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 3 11:10:06 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:10:06 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: The version I purchased is product UEH-00006 If necessary, I could upgrade with some help. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:36 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi All, > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: VS2005 Standard > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > ==== > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 > Standard? > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more > can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From paul.hartland at googlemail.com Wed Mar 4 04:04:54 2009 From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:04:54 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic Message-ID: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> To all, Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : usp_MyStoredProcedure ( @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), @dtiJobDate [datetime], @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) ) AS BEGIN DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT UPDATE dbo.MyTable SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND ( @nvcCode = 'A' OR @nvcCode = 'N' ) AND ( AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR AvailabilityCode= 'N' ) SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, @nvcPayroll SELECT * FROM MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll END If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I have a simple piece of VB code as below: Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then DE.Conn.Open Endif Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") msgbox rs.fields(0) DE.Conn.Close ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding to the requested name or ordinal. However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT statement it returns the resultset. Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. Thanks in advance for any help on this.... -- Paul Hartland paul.hartland at googlemail.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 04:39:47 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 13:39:47 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?Q2FuJ3QgR2V0IFNlbGVjdCBSZXN1bHRzIEluIFZpc3Vh?= =?koi8-r?b?bCBCYXNpYw==?= In-Reply-To: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, Try to put SET NOCOUNT ON before DECLARE statement. HTH -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hartland To: Access List ,VisualBasicList ,SQLServerList Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:04:54 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic > To all, > > Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the > following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : > > usp_MyStoredProcedure > ( > @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), > @dtiJobDate [datetime], > @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) > ) > AS > BEGIN > DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT > UPDATE dbo.MyTable > SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode > WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND > JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND > ( > @nvcCode = 'A' OR > @nvcCode = 'N' > ) AND > ( > AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR > AvailabilityCode= 'N' > ) > > SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT > DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) > SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, > @nvcPayroll > SELECT * > FROM MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > END > > If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM > MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I have > a simple piece of VB code as below: > > Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset > If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then > DE.Conn.Open > Endif > Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & > format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") > msgbox rs.fields(0) > > DE.Conn.Close > > ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server > > The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding to > the requested name or ordinal. > > However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT > statement it returns the resultset. > > Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. > > Thanks in advance for any help on this.... > > > > > > > -- > Paul Hartland > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 4 04:50:17 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:50:17 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic In-Reply-To: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AEE989.16930.1A61897@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've run into very similar problems trying to use conditional execution and multiple selects in a SP called through ODBC (in my case using the SQLTools ODBC library with PowerBasic). It appears to be a limitation of the ODBC/ADODB drivers. In the end I had to split the one SP which worked fine in SQL Server into several separate calls to simple SPs and handle the conditional stuff in my PB code between calls. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but I suspect you may have to end up doing the same. -- Stuart On 4 Mar 2009 at 10:04, Paul Hartland wrote: > To all, > > Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the > following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : > > usp_MyStoredProcedure > ( > @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), > @dtiJobDate [datetime], > @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) > ) > AS > BEGIN > DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT > UPDATE dbo.MyTable > SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode > WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND > JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND > ( > @nvcCode = 'A' OR > @nvcCode = 'N' > ) AND > ( > AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR > AvailabilityCode= 'N' > ) > > SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT > DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) > SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, > @nvcPayroll > SELECT * > FROM MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > END > > If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM > MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I have > a simple piece of VB code as below: > > Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset > If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then > DE.Conn.Open > Endif > Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & > format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") > msgbox rs.fields(0) > > DE.Conn.Close > > ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server > > The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding to > the requested name or ordinal. > > However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT > statement it returns the resultset. > > Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. > > Thanks in advance for any help on this.... > > > > > > > -- > Paul Hartland > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at googlemail.com Wed Mar 4 04:56:29 2009 From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:56:29 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic In-Reply-To: References: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <38c884770903040256w607637bbhb05cbd7f0d7d5ff8@mail.gmail.com> DOH, Thank you very much for ending my nightmare, can't believe I missed that. Paul 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Hi Paul, > > Try to put > > SET NOCOUNT ON > > before DECLARE > > statement. > > HTH > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Hartland > To: Access List ,VisualBasicList < > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>,SQLServerList < > dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:04:54 +0000 > Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic > > > To all, > > > > Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the > > following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : > > > > usp_MyStoredProcedure > > ( > > @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), > > @dtiJobDate [datetime], > > @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) > > ) > > AS > > BEGIN > > DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT > > UPDATE dbo.MyTable > > SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode > > WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND > > JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND > > ( > > @nvcCode = 'A' OR > > @nvcCode = 'N' > > ) AND > > ( > > AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR > > AvailabilityCode= 'N' > > ) > > > > SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT > > DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 > > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > > INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) > > SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, > > @nvcPayroll > > SELECT * > > FROM MyTable2 > > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > > END > > > > If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM > > MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I > have > > a simple piece of VB code as below: > > > > Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset > > If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then > > DE.Conn.Open > > Endif > > Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & > > format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") > > msgbox rs.fields(0) > > > > DE.Conn.Close > > > > ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server > > > > The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding > to > > the requested name or ordinal. > > > > However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT > > statement it returns the resultset. > > > > Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. > > > > Thanks in advance for any help on this.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Paul Hartland > > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Paul Hartland paul.hartland at googlemail.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 4 16:34:45 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:34:45 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: <62B0851A80E642D0923A2365152D591C@Mattys> Hi Shamil, I am installing 'as we speak.' I can use the extra week because I just got a good size project. Thank you also! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Mike Mattys" Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:25 PM Subject: Re[2]: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Please see first my previous message concerning C# Express 2008 tests. > Based on that tests' results our team can now use 2008 versions: > > C# 2008 Express, VS2008 Standard and VS 2008 Prof: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: C# 2008 Express > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. > > Please approve that. > > Thank you Mike for your purchasing of VS2008 Prof. > Thank you all for your help with testing sample projects. > > I must say I spent quite some time during this week to prepare different > configurations or test projects, to make VMWAre installation on Vista > Ultimate, to download and burn setup disks, to run setups and compile, > build and run tests. > > That was a long way to get the current good result. > Witt nowaday knowledge I'd go shorter way, namely: > > - make very simple VS2008 Winforms project with placeholder sample > ReportViewer control report; > - install VMWare Player 2.x on Vista or better just use VMWare Server > installed on my another development PC; > - download "All-in-One" Express CD and ReportViewer Control > Redistributables SP1; > - install C# 2008 Express and ReportViewer Redist. on Win XP SP2 VM; > - copy simple sample project to VM and test it to see that it works OK; > > --- > That shorter way would have saved me a couple+ of working days. > --- > Lessons learned. Some other byside results achieved during the above > tests. > --- > We can start working on project now when Mike will get hist VS2008 Prof,. > will install it and play with it a little, and when John will get C# 2008 > Express installed. > --- > I'd propose now to shift project start for one week to 16th of March. The > reason for me is that I have spent quite some time on this work during > thsi week, and I have urgent project to work on very intensively. > The reason for Mike and John could be to adpat a little bit to VS 2008 > Prof and C# 2008 Express. > I'd also need to setup TargetProcess - and that isn't straightforward as > this shoudl be manual installation first tested on local PC and then > deployed on my ASP.NET hosting. I wanted also to make some > setup/adjustmentd on SCRUM at Extreme web site. > And we also have to find a way how to share/synchronize our source code: > Coudl you please look at - http://www.gladinet.com/ - I have it installed > here and it allows to use MS Live SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer, > the same coudl be done for Google Docs and some other (Free) Internet > Storage providers... > Even with shifted project start date we can discuss during the next week > how to organize the source code within the solution, and the related > issues... > > Please post your thoughts/proposals here. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:10:06 -0500 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > >> The version I purchased is product UEH-00006 >> If necessary, I could upgrade with some help. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning >> Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:36 AM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have >> >> >> > Hi All, >> > >> > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: >> > >> > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard >> > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) >> > Doug: VS2008 Prof. >> > John: VS2005 Standard >> > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. >> > ==== >> > >> > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 >> > Standard? >> > >> > Any thoughts on that issue? >> > >> > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If >> > more >> > can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 16:45:06 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 01:45:06 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent form/report as grids/tables. The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period of time than the other "ligher" ones... This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of Product Backlog Entries. Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent as possible. Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by time and space? Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the below BackLog if you see some issues with it. N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole responsibility of ProductOwner.... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Product Backlog Forms ==== 1. Categories 2. Customer Labels Dialog 3. Customer Orders 4. Customer Orders Subform1 5. Customer Orders Subform2 6. Customer Phone List 7. Customers 8. Employees 9. Main Switchboard 10. Orders 11. Orders Subform 12. Product List 13. Products 14. Quarterly Orders 15. Quarterly Orders Subform 16. Sales Analysis 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 19. Sales by Year Dialog 20. Sales Reports Dialog 21. Startup 22. Suppliers Reports ===== 1. Alphabetical List of Products 2. Catalog 3. Catalog Subreport 4. Customer Labels 5. Employee Sales by Country 6. Invoice 7. Products by Category 8. Sales by Category 9. Sales by Category Subreport 10. Sales by Year 11. Sales by Year Subreport 12. Sales Totals by Amount 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter 14. Summary of Sales by Year From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 17:35:13 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:35:13 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?IFJlWzJdOiBTY3J1bSAmIEMjIC0gVlMgdmVyc2lvbnMg?= =?koi8-r?b?d2UgaGF2ZQ==?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Today I have tested C# 2008 Express with VS2008 Prof. solution, which you have got downloaded from http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip that was the solution named NorthWind.NET.VS2008 - usual VS2008 solution with WinForms FE project, console project and several class library projects. One of the classlibs has also ReportViewer control and .rdlc placeholder report. That solutuon wascompiled, built and run OK. I have done C# 2008 Express installation from "All-in-One" Express CD freely available on MS site http://www.microsoft.com/express/download/offline.aspx I have also installed Microsoft Report Viewer Redistributable 2005 Service Pack 1 http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=82833F27-081D-4B72-83EF-2836360A904D&displaylang=en The above installations were done of a Win XP2 SP2 without .NET Framework. Recap: 1) C# 2008 Express compiles, builds and runs well VS2008 Prof. Solutions with several source projects and source class libraries http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express1.jpg 2) C# 2008 Express does need additionally MS Report Viewer Redistributable Service Pack 1 installation to run ReportViewer control reports http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express2.jpg 3) C# 2008 setup installs quite some other prerequisites http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express.jpg BUT 4) C# 2008 Express *does not* have design mode for ReportView Control reports - .rdlc files - they have to be edited manually as text(XML) files within solution. 5) C# Express doesn't have debug/release modes but still code can be debugged ===================== Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:10:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > The version I purchased is product UEH-00006 > If necessary, I could upgrade with some help. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:36 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > Hi All, > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > John: VS2005 Standard > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > ==== > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 > > Standard? > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more > > can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 17:36:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:36:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Please see first my previous message concerning C# Express 2008 tests. Based on that tests' results our team can now use 2008 versions: C# 2008 Express, VS2008 Standard and VS 2008 Prof: Gustav: VS2008 Standard Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) Doug: VS2008 Prof. John: C# 2008 Express Shamil: VS2008 Prof. Please approve that. Thank you Mike for your purchasing of VS2008 Prof. Thank you all for your help with testing sample projects. I must say I spent quite some time during this week to prepare different configurations or test projects, to make VMWAre installation on Vista Ultimate, to download and burn setup disks, to run setups and compile, build and run tests. That was a long way to get the current good result. Witt nowaday knowledge I'd go shorter way, namely: - make very simple VS2008 Winforms project with placeholder sample ReportViewer control report; - install VMWare Player 2.x on Vista or better just use VMWare Server installed on my another development PC; - download "All-in-One" Express CD and ReportViewer Control Redistributables SP1; - install C# 2008 Express and ReportViewer Redist. on Win XP SP2 VM; - copy simple sample project to VM and test it to see that it works OK; --- That shorter way would have saved me a couple+ of working days. --- Lessons learned. Some other byside results achieved during the above tests. --- We can start working on project now when Mike will get hist VS2008 Prof,. will install it and play with it a little, and when John will get C# 2008 Express installed. --- I'd propose now to shift project start for one week to 16th of March. The reason for me is that I have spent quite some time on this work during thsi week, and I have urgent project to work on very intensively. The reason for Mike and John could be to adpat a little bit to VS 2008 Prof and C# 2008 Express. I'd also need to setup TargetProcess - and that isn't straightforward as this shoudl be manual installation first tested on local PC and then deployed on my ASP.NET hosting. I wanted also to make some setup/adjustmentd on SCRUM at Extreme web site. And we also have to find a way how to share/synchronize our source code: Coudl you please look at - http://www.gladinet.com/ - I have it installed here and it allows to use MS Live SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer, the same coudl be done for Google Docs and some other (Free) Internet Storage providers... Even with shifted project start date we can discuss during the next week how to organize the source code within the solution, and the related issues... Please post your thoughts/proposals here. Thank you. -- Shamil From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 4 20:28:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:28:58 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: <62B0851A80E642D0923A2365152D591C@Mattys> Message-ID: <0457C88B5BCA4FA588E242678DF59EC8@Mattys> Ha! Figures. I get VS2008 installed, go out and return from dinner ... Upon starting the program, I'm taken immediately to 10-4 Episode 2: Welcome to Visual Studio 2010 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" Cc: "dba-VB" Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil, > > I am installing 'as we speak.' > I can use the extra week because I just got a good size project. > Thank you also! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 00:10:53 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 09:10:53 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Francesco, Thank you for your replay. The following is just for information. I have got installed VMWare Player v.2.x I managed VM to see outer world (local LAN PCs) and the Internet. But VM still can't access Vista's shares, and Vista's shares *are* accessable from other PCs in the LAN. Vista host can't access guest VM's shares but those shares *are* accessable from other PCs in the LAN. VMWare Player doesn't seem to have any tools to tune VM Network configuration. I have checked Vista's firewall - it allow VMWare player to access host. I currently decided to leave it as it's - I have posted a message in VMWare community with the question how to tune VMWare Player for its guest VM to see the host shares. No definitive advises yet. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Francisco Tapia To: Salakhetdinov Shamil Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:38:59 -0800 Subject: Re: Re[2]: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Shamil, I was referring to the nic configurations within the VM workstation > application. you should see under the settings for the VM the different > types of NICs you can use. the VM Network Configuration utility is more for > fine tuning things like IP ranges or adding additional nics that you want to > behave in a different way... my case I have a wifi and a LAN nic. so I have > my wifi be the bridge nic and the WIFI be the NAT, it's the way I chose to > configure it but you can do so any which way you want. > > > -Francisco > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > > 2009/3/3 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > > > Hi Francisco, > > > > You're welcome to observe the project progress! > > > > Thank for your information on VMWare. > > It should be easy to fix I guess but I must say it's not clear yet here how > > to do that: > > > > Maybe from the following info from my "VMWare Manager Virtual Networks" > > form > > you can just point me what should be changed? (I must say I didn't read the > > VMWare docs): > > > > > > ===================================== > > [Summary] > > VMNet0 (Bridged) - Bridged to an automatically chosen Adapter - > > 255.255.255.255 > > VMNet1(Host-Only) - A private network shared with the host - 192.168.116.0 > > - Enabled > > VMNet8 (NAT) - Used to share the host's IP Address - 192.168.119.0 - > > Enabled > > > > [Automatic Bridging] > > [x] Automatically choose an available physical netwrok adapter to bridge to > > VMNet0 > > > > Excluded Adapters (Do not attempt to Bridge to teh following adapters) > > - Interl(R) Pro/Wireless... > > - Broadcom 440x 10/100 Integrated Controler > > - Blutooth Device (Personal Area Network) > > > > ? Maybe exclude some of them - I do use only wireless adapter to > > communicate with my LAN > > > > [Host Virtual Network Mapping] > > VMnet0 - Bridged to an automatically choses adapter > > VMnet1 - VMWare Network Adapter VMnet1 > > VMnet8 - VMWare Network Adapter VMnet8 > > > > [Host Virtual Adapters] > > VMWare Network Adapter VMNet1 - VMNet1 - Enabled > > VMWare Network Adapter VMNet8 - VMNet8 - Enabled > > > > [DHCP] > > VMNet1 - 192.168.116.0 - 255.255.255.0 - vmnet1 > > VMNet8 - 192.168.119.0 - 255.255.255.0 - vmnet8 > > > > [NAT] > > VMNet host: VMNet8 > > ======================================= > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > - Show quoted text - > > From: Francisco Tapia > > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:28:40 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Shamil, Generally the network errors may be due to the settings in your > > VM > > > for the nic card. The settings are to set the nic as Bridged, NAT or > > > Host-Only. Setting as Bridge makes the VM act like a standalone pc where > > > you can communicate from your host to the guest and the guest back to the > > > host as if each was it's own hardware pc. Setting it as NAT, then you > > have > > > essentially a firewall on the guest pc and you can't reach it from the > > host > > > you can only go from guest to host. Host-Only is a nice feature in that > > the > > > guest pc can only talk to the host. The host pc will be able to work as > > > normal, and will also have access to the guest pc via the network. > > > > > > my typical settings are to setup vm workstations as bridged. > > > > > > btw, I was reading through this thread and while I am not familiar enough > > > with C# I'd like to observe the project as I know I'd learn a great deal > > > from it. > > > > > > I do have VS2008 std. > > > > > > -Francisco > > > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > > > > > > > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 00:14:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 09:14:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: <0457C88B5BCA4FA588E242678DF59EC8@Mattys> References: <0457C88B5BCA4FA588E242678DF59EC8@Mattys> Message-ID: My congratulations, Mike! Yes, Visual Studio 10/.NET Framework 4 promise a lot of new features - by the time they will be released you should have already a good working skills of programming in .NET Framework using WinForms etc. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:28:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Ha! Figures. > > I get VS2008 installed, go out and return from dinner ... > > Upon starting the program, I'm taken immediately to > 10-4 Episode 2: Welcome to Visual Studio 2010 > > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > Cc: "dba-VB" > Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:34 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > Hi Shamil, > > > > I am installing 'as we speak.' > > I can use the extra week because I just got a good size project. > > Thank you also! > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 02:53:08 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 11:53:08 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zICB3ZSBoYXZl?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Sorry that was mistyping - of course I used 2008 ReportViewer SP1 Redistributables: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=BB196D5D-76C2-4A0E-9458-267D22B6AAC6&displaylang=en -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:39:33 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > That's a lot you have been through! So only one question: Why the 2005 version of Report Viewer Redistributable? > As we all run VS2008 in some version, the Report Viewer Redistributable 2008 SP1 is available. > > Microsoft Report Viewer 2008 SP1 Redistributable: > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=BB196D5D-76C2-4A0E-9458-267D22B6AAC6&displaylang=en > > The only reason I can think of is: > > > Required Software: > .NET Framework version 3.5 SP1: You must install the .NET Framework Redistributable Package version 3.5 SP1 prior to installing the Microsoft Report Viewer 2008 SP1 Redistributable > > > This means that the minimum OS to be used is Windows XP as .Net 3.5 is not for Windows 2000, but is that an issue? Will we be programming for .Net 2.0 and Windows 2000? > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-03-2009 00:35 >>> > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Today I have tested C# 2008 Express with VS2008 Prof. solution, which you have got downloaded from > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > that was the solution named NorthWind.NET.VS2008 - usual VS2008 solution with WinForms FE project, console project and several class library projects. One of the classlibs has also ReportViewer control and .rdlc placeholder report. > > That solutuon wascompiled, built and run OK. > > I have done C# 2008 Express installation from "All-in-One" Express CD freely available on MS site > > http://www.microsoft.com/express/download/offline.aspx > > I have also installed > > Microsoft Report Viewer Redistributable 2005 Service Pack 1 > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=82833F27-081D-4B72-83EF-2836360A904D&displaylang=en > > The above installations were done of a Win XP2 SP2 without .NET Framework. > > Recap: > 1) C# 2008 Express compiles, builds and runs well VS2008 Prof. Solutions with several source projects and source class libraries > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express1.jpg > > 2) C# 2008 Express does need additionally MS Report Viewer Redistributable Service Pack 1 installation to run ReportViewer control reports > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express2.jpg > > 3) C# 2008 setup installs quite some other prerequisites > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express.jpg > > BUT > > 4) C# 2008 Express *does not* have design mode for ReportView Control reports - .rdlc files - they have to be edited manually as text(XML) files within solution. > > 5) C# Express doesn't have debug/release modes but still code can be debugged > ===================== > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 03:01:25 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:01:25 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, thank you. Yes, Gladinet looks interesting - I can use it with SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer. And it can mount my SkyDrive as logical device e.g. Z: It would be useful if Gladinet can somehow mount just public part of SkyDrive for all of us to use it as code vault for source code control... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:55:06 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > Approved. > Also, 16. March is fine for me. > > Gladinet looks quite interesting! > http://www.gladinet.com > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-03-2009 00:36 >>> > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Please see first my previous message concerning C# Express 2008 tests. > Based on that tests' results our team can now use 2008 versions: > > C# 2008 Express, VS2008 Standard and VS 2008 Prof: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: C# 2008 Express > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. > > Please approve that. > > Thank you Mike for your purchasing of VS2008 Prof. > Thank you all for your help with testing sample projects. > > I must say I spent quite some time during this week to prepare different configurations or test projects, to make VMWAre installation on Vista Ultimate, to download and burn setup disks, to run setups and compile, build and run tests. > > That was a long way to get the current good result. > Witt nowaday knowledge I'd go shorter way, namely: > > - make very simple VS2008 Winforms project with placeholder sample ReportViewer control report; > - install VMWare Player 2.x on Vista or better just use VMWare Server installed on my another development PC; > - download "All-in-One" Express CD and ReportViewer Control Redistributables SP1; > - install C# 2008 Express and ReportViewer Redist. on Win XP SP2 VM; > - copy simple sample project to VM and test it to see that it works OK; > > --- > That shorter way would have saved me a couple+ of working days. > --- > Lessons learned. Some other byside results achieved during the above tests. > --- > We can start working on project now when Mike will get hist VS2008 Prof,. will install it and play with it a little, and when John will get C# 2008 Express installed. > --- > I'd propose now to shift project start for one week to 16th of March. The reason for me is that I have spent quite some time on this work during thsi week, and I have urgent project to work on very intensively. > The reason for Mike and John could be to adpat a little bit to VS 2008 Prof and C# 2008 Express. > I'd also need to setup TargetProcess - and that isn't straightforward as this shoudl be manual installation first tested on local PC and then deployed on my ASP.NET hosting. I wanted also to make some setup/adjustmentd on SCRUM at Extreme web site. > And we also have to find a way how to share/synchronize our source code: > Coudl you please look at - http://www.gladinet.com/ - I have it installed here and it allows to use MS Live SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer, the same coudl be done for Google Docs and some other (Free) Internet Storage providers... > Even with shifted project start date we can discuss during the next week how to organize the source code within the solution, and the related issues... > > Please post your thoughts/proposals here. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 6 10:53:28 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:53:28 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model Message-ID: Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > In .. .aspx.cs file: private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. Any suggestions? /gustav > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { IQueryable query; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { query = from Location location in this.Location where location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) select location; } else { query = from Location location in this.Location select location; } return (query as ObjectQuery); } } *** From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 7 08:27:15 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:27:15 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model Message-ID: Hi all I finally found out how to return Location rather than anonymous types: public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { ObjectQuery locationByOwner; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { locationByOwner = Location .Where("it.Owner.Id = @ownerId", new ObjectParameter ("ownerId", _locationFilterOwner.Id)); } else { locationByOwner = Location; } return locationByOwner; } } Now, how could I use the object Owner as parameter and not Owner.Id? This is not accepted: .Where("it.Owner = @owner", new ObjectParameter ("owner", _locationFilterOwner)); as only scalar values are accepted as parameter values. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 06-03-2009 17:53 >>> Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > In .. .aspx.cs file: private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. Any suggestions? /gustav > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { IQueryable query; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { query = from Location location in this.Location where location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) select location; } else { query = from Location location in this.Location select location; } return (query as ObjectQuery); } } *** From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 7 08:41:25 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:41:25 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model Message-ID: Hi all Also, the fill method is now vastly reduced. protected void OwnerDropDownList_Init(object sender, EventArgs e) { LocationDropDownList.DataValueField = "Id"; LocationDropDownList.DataTextField = "Location1"; } private void FillLocationDropDownList() { LocationDropDownList.DataSource = _erhvervslejeContext.LocationByOwnerQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 07-03-2009 15:27 >>> Hi all I finally found out how to return Location rather than anonymous types: public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { ObjectQuery locationByOwner; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { locationByOwner = Location .Where("it.Owner.Id = @ownerId", new ObjectParameter ("ownerId", _locationFilterOwner.Id)); } else { locationByOwner = Location; } return locationByOwner; } } Now, how could I use the object Owner as parameter and not Owner.Id? This is not accepted: .Where("it.Owner = @owner", new ObjectParameter ("owner", _locationFilterOwner)); as only scalar values are accepted as parameter values. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 06-03-2009 17:53 >>> Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > In .. .aspx.cs file: private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. Any suggestions? /gustav > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { IQueryable query; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { query = from Location location in this.Location where location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) select location; } else { query = from Location location in this.Location select location; } return (query as ObjectQuery); } } *** From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 9 16:23:58 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:23:58 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?QURPLk5FVCBFbnRpdHkgTW9kZWw=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Thank you for your information on ADO.NET Entity Model. I must say I personally haven't yet tried to use it... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:41:25 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model > Hi all > > Also, the fill method is now vastly reduced. > > protected void OwnerDropDownList_Init(object sender, EventArgs e) > { > LocationDropDownList.DataValueField = "Id"; > LocationDropDownList.DataTextField = "Location1"; > } > > private void FillLocationDropDownList() > { > LocationDropDownList.DataSource = _erhvervslejeContext.LocationByOwnerQuery; > LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); > } > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 07-03-2009 15:27 >>> > Hi all > > I finally found out how to return Location rather than anonymous types: > > public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery > { > get > { > ObjectQuery locationByOwner; > if (_locationFilterOwner != null) > { > locationByOwner = > Location > .Where("it.Owner.Id = @ownerId", > new ObjectParameter ("ownerId", _locationFilterOwner.Id)); > } > else > { > locationByOwner = > Location; > } > return locationByOwner; > } > } > > Now, how could I use the object Owner as parameter and not Owner.Id? > This is not accepted: > > .Where("it.Owner = @owner", new ObjectParameter ("owner", _locationFilterOwner)); > > as only scalar values are accepted as parameter values. > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 06-03-2009 17:53 >>> > Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... > > I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. > The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > > > In .. .aspx.cs file: > > private void FillLocationDropDownList() > { > var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location > select new > { > Id = l.Id, > Location1 = l.Location1 > }).ToList(); > LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; > LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); > } > > However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): > > private void FillLocationDropDownList() > { > var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location > select new > { > Id = l.Id, > Location1 = l.Location1 > }).ToList(); > LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; > LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); > } > > > Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: > > " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. > Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." > > I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. > > Any suggestions? > > /gustav > > > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext > > public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery > { > get > { > IQueryable query; > if (_locationFilterOwner != null) > { > query = > from > Location location in this.Location > where > location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) > select > location; > } > else > { > query = > from > Location location in this.Location > select > location; > } > return (query as ObjectQuery); > } > } > > *** > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 9 16:41:37 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:41:37 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Let's continue our endevour? I have created a group in MS Live space: http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ would you mind to connect to this group? - it's currently open to everybody. I'd propose to upload and share our SCRUM project files on this group SkyDrive until we will find somewhere in the future a more effective way for distrubuted files' sharing/source control. I tried PopFly (as Gustav did) and I found it's too limiting. I have posted to group our MS SQL 2005 database files: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database and I have also posted simple sample WinForm application, which I wanted to propose to discuss here to find out is proposed simple way of desining WinForm OK for everybody for the Access->NET conversion project. This simple sample form (Shippers) does get data from backend db and it does have all the functionality to add, edit, delete data (except picture data which I left untouched for the time being). Here is this simple project zip-file and screenshot: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/SampleWinFormSolution.jpg To run the project from within VS on your system you will have to change connection string in app.config . When you get connected to the group we can also use the group to have online discussions via MS Live Messenger if that will be appropriate for everybody or just keep offlne discussions as this one I have just started there: http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!129 AFAIS there are many features in MS Live Groups - still to find which ones would be the most useful for us. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:01:25 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > OK, thank you. > > Yes, Gladinet looks interesting - I can use it with SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer. > And it can mount my SkyDrive as logical device e.g. Z: > > It would be useful if Gladinet can somehow mount just public part of SkyDrive for all of us to use it as code vault for source code control... > > -- > Shamil > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 9 17:03:42 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:03:42 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: We agreed to the 16th, didn't we? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 9 17:08:53 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 01:08:53 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, we did, Mike - this is just some preliminary information/"food for thought". -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:03:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > We agreed to the 16th, didn't we? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 10 05:35:44 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:35:44 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team at all, I have extended sample solution with simple MSReportViewer list report - just to keep collecting "food for thought" - nothing facny, tricky or advanced - just aiming to prepare info to "get it done" - MS Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conersion - as qucik as possible when we all get this project work shared... Here is the link to the zipped sample solution as dba-VB MS Live group SlyDrive: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_1.zip?ccr=6990 Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:41:37 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Let's continue our endevour? > > I have created a group in MS Live space: > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ > > would you mind to connect to this group? - it's currently open to everybody. > > I'd propose to upload and share our SCRUM project files on this group SkyDrive until we will find somewhere in the future a more effective way for distrubuted files' sharing/source control. > > I tried PopFly (as Gustav did) and I found it's too limiting. > > I have posted to group our MS SQL 2005 database files: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > and I have also posted simple sample WinForm application, which I wanted to propose to discuss here to find out is proposed simple way of desining WinForm OK for everybody for the Access->NET conversion project. This simple sample form (Shippers) does get data from backend db and it does have all the functionality to add, edit, delete data (except picture data which I left untouched for the time being). > > Here is this simple project zip-file and screenshot: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/SampleWinFormSolution.jpg > > To run the project from within VS on your system you will have to change connection string in app.config . > > When you get connected to the group we can also use the group to have online discussions via MS Live Messenger if that will be appropriate for everybody or just keep offlne discussions as this one I have just started there: > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!129 > > AFAIS there are many features in MS Live Groups - still to find which ones would be the most useful for us. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 10 06:40:29 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:40:29 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, I thought the dba-Vb MS Live group is currently open to everybody with MS Live account to join but it looks like it works somehow differently (despite the fact it's set widely open to the outer world): I have found your request to join and and I have set it as accepted - I think you can now use the dba-vb MS Live group without any limitations. Jack Drawbridge has also joined the dba-VB MS Live group today. Please set you requests to join and I will try to accept them promptly. (Please send me private e-mail to Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com if you wanted to get your request to join MS Live dba-vb processed immediately.) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:57:09 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > You need to approve our applications before we are granted access ...: > > > Someone may have deleted or moved the item, or you may not have permission to view it. > If you have questions about this item, contact the person who created it. > > > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 10-03-2009 11:35 >>> > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 02:21:52 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:21:52 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have added new sample form to the sample solution to demonstrate Parent/Child design technique: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_2.zip?ccr=5258 Once again - nothing very special - just collecting all the necessary "How To" techniques within one sample solution for us to speedily proceed with Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conversion when the conversion project will start next week. Can we shortly discuss the main goal of this first coming project? For me (if I'd have been a ProductOwner/Customer) - the main goal is to get conversion work ASAP (and I (if I'd have been a ProductOwner) currently do not care what MS technologies will be used to communicate with backend - they should just work well enough for converted Northwind application, which I (as ProductOwner and my customers) plan to use as a desktop application. For me (as I'm in the role of SCRUMMaster for this project) - the main goal in this project is to get teamwork organized with as little as possible troubles/impediments for team members (including myself). And I'm not trying to "reach the stars" with this goal on this stage - just to get some satisfactory distributed teamwork environment using mainly feely available tools and technologies ... The roadmap/main goal we're aiming at AFAIU is to use ADO.NET Entity Framework in the future but for the first project we assume that we do not even know that such technology exists... OK? :) Please add your comments/notes for use to have common understanding of this forst project main goal(s)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:35:44 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM Team at all, > > I have extended sample solution with simple MSReportViewer list report - just to keep collecting "food for thought" - nothing facny, tricky or advanced - just aiming to prepare info to "get it done" - MS Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conersion - as qucik as possible when we all get this project work shared... > > Here is the link to the zipped sample solution as dba-VB MS Live group SlyDrive: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_1.zip?ccr=6990 > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:41:37 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > Let's continue our endevour? > > > > I have created a group in MS Live space: > > > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ > > > > would you mind to connect to this group? - it's currently open to everybody. > > > > I'd propose to upload and share our SCRUM project files on this group SkyDrive until we will find somewhere in the future a more effective way for distrubuted files' sharing/source control. > > > > I tried PopFly (as Gustav did) and I found it's too limiting. > > > > I have posted to group our MS SQL 2005 database files: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > and I have also posted simple sample WinForm application, which I wanted to propose to discuss here to find out is proposed simple way of desining WinForm OK for everybody for the Access->NET conversion project. This simple sample form (Shippers) does get data from backend db and it does have all the functionality to add, edit, delete data (except picture data which I left untouched for the time being). > > > > Here is this simple project zip-file and screenshot: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/SampleWinFormSolution.jpg > > > > To run the project from within VS on your system you will have to change connection string in app.config . > > > > When you get connected to the group we can also use the group to have online discussions via MS Live Messenger if that will be appropriate for everybody or just keep offlne discussions as this one I have just started there: > > > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!129 > > > > AFAIS there are many features in MS Live Groups - still to find which ones would be the most useful for us. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 02:28:16 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:28:16 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, FYI: I have just found MS published a Rich Upload tooll to MS Live SkyDrive - here it's https://secure.wlxrs.com/7MZ0K!bbIbt-RpyIqB9sIA/etc/RichUploadMsi/en/RichUpload.msi Using this tool you can set the files to upload by dragging-and-dropping them to SkyDrive folder and then clicking button [Upload]: this Rich Upload tool is an ActiveX from MS, which can be hosted within IE (I havent' checked FireFox or Opera etc. - this ActiveX should work with them too I hope). Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 11 04:30:28 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:30:28 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil et al I can see our member list and your postings and files, but If I try to reply to a comment and click Publish, a message pops up: The service is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later. This "later" seems to be "forever". Is it just me? Can any of you publish a reply/comment? /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 10-03-2009 12:40 >>> Hi Gustav, I thought the dba-Vb MS Live group is currently open to everybody with MS Live account to join but it looks like it works somehow differently (despite the fact it's set widely open to the outer world): I have found your request to join and and I have set it as accepted - I think you can now use the dba-vb MS Live group without any limitations. Jack Drawbridge has also joined the dba-VB MS Live group today. Please set you requests to join and I will try to accept them promptly. (Please send me private e-mail to Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com if you wanted to get your request to join MS Live dba-vb processed immediately.) Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 05:01:53 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:01:53 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, I have seen such a message acou ple of times but currently group posting/commenting works OK for me. Please try to do some other actions within group - I checked group options there is no limitations: Group->Options->General All members can edit the calendar All members can add and edit folders and albums Group->Options->E-Mail Group e-mail On Group->Options->Group conversations On I do not see any options about commenting/starting discussions - I'd assume they are available for every group member by deafult. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:30:28 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil et al > > I can see our member list and your postings and files, but If I try to reply to a comment and click Publish, a message pops up: > > The service is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later. > > This "later" seems to be "forever". > Is it just me? Can any of you publish a reply/comment? > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 10-03-2009 12:40 >>> > > Hi Gustav, > > I thought the dba-Vb MS Live group is currently open to everybody with MS Live account to join but it looks like it works somehow differently (despite the fact it's set widely open to the outer world): I have found your request to join and and I have set it as accepted - I think you can now use the dba-vb MS Live group without any limitations. > > Jack Drawbridge has also joined the dba-VB MS Live group today. > > Please set you requests to join and I will try to accept them promptly. (Please send me private e-mail to Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com if you wanted to get your request to join MS Live dba-vb processed immediately.) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 10:27:30 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:27:30 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Scrum Team, I have been watching closely the progress Shamil has been making, and wishing I could join, but fearing I may not be able to contribute much. I also see that there are already enough members in the team. However, if you think at this point there is merit, I would like to volunteer to join, perhaps as the product owner. From the recent content from Shamil, I see that it might useful to split these two roles that Shamil currently has ie, Scrum Master and Product Owner. If I am too late, absolutely no offence, I will continue to lurk, but if you want another member, I am available, let me know what your preference it, thanks Mark 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. > I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their > winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? > The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent > form/report as grids/tables. > > The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of > objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. > > According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to > evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" > evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that > backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any > measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be > eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. > But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry > will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period > of time than the other "ligher" ones... > > This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker > Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". > > Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: > > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker > > We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three > usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of > Product Backlog Entries. > > Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent > as possible. > > Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by > time and space? > Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the > below BackLog if you see some issues with it. > > N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in > preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole > responsibility of ProductOwner.... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. Product Backlog > > Forms > ==== > > 1. Categories > 2. Customer Labels Dialog > 3. Customer Orders > 4. Customer Orders Subform1 > 5. Customer Orders Subform2 > 6. Customer Phone List > 7. Customers > 8. Employees > 9. Main Switchboard > 10. Orders > 11. Orders Subform > 12. Product List > 13. Products > 14. Quarterly Orders > 15. Quarterly Orders Subform > 16. Sales Analysis > 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 > 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 > 19. Sales by Year Dialog > 20. Sales Reports Dialog > 21. Startup > 22. Suppliers > > Reports > ===== > 1. Alphabetical List of Products > 2. Catalog > 3. Catalog Subreport > 4. Customer Labels > 5. Employee Sales by Country > 6. Invoice > 7. Products by Category > 8. Sales by Category > 9. Sales by Category Subreport > 10. Sales by Year > 11. Sales by Year Subreport > 12. Sales Totals by Amount > 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter > 14. Summary of Sales by Year > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 14:12:04 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:12:04 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmUgU0NSVU0gUHJvamVjdCBCYWNrbG9n?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark, You're welcome to join http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:27:30 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > Hello Scrum Team, > > I have been watching closely the progress Shamil has been making, and > wishing I could join, but fearing I may not be able to contribute much. > > I also see that there are already enough members in the team. However, if > you think at this point there is merit, I would like to volunteer to join, > perhaps as the product owner. From the recent content from Shamil, I see > that it might useful to split these two roles that Shamil currently has ie, > Scrum Master and Product Owner. > > If I am too late, absolutely no offence, I will continue to lurk, but if you > want another member, I am available, > > let me know what your preference it, > > thanks > > Mark > > > > 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. > > I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their > > winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? > > The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent > > form/report as grids/tables. > > > > The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of > > objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. > > > > According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to > > evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" > > evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that > > backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any > > measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be > > eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. > > But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry > > will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period > > of time than the other "ligher" ones... > > > > This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker > > Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". > > > > Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: > > > > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker > > > > We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three > > usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of > > Product Backlog Entries. > > > > Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent > > as possible. > > > > Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by > > time and space? > > Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the > > below BackLog if you see some issues with it. > > > > N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in > > preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole > > responsibility of ProductOwner.... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. Product Backlog > > > > Forms > > ==== > > > > 1. Categories > > 2. Customer Labels Dialog > > 3. Customer Orders > > 4. Customer Orders Subform1 > > 5. Customer Orders Subform2 > > 6. Customer Phone List > > 7. Customers > > 8. Employees > > 9. Main Switchboard > > 10. Orders > > 11. Orders Subform > > 12. Product List > > 13. Products > > 14. Quarterly Orders > > 15. Quarterly Orders Subform > > 16. Sales Analysis > > 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 > > 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 > > 19. Sales by Year Dialog > > 20. Sales Reports Dialog > > 21. Startup > > 22. Suppliers > > > > Reports > > ===== > > 1. Alphabetical List of Products > > 2. Catalog > > 3. Catalog Subreport > > 4. Customer Labels > > 5. Employee Sales by Country > > 6. Invoice > > 7. Products by Category > > 8. Sales by Category > > 9. Sales by Category Subreport > > 10. Sales by Year > > 11. Sales by Year Subreport > > 12. Sales Totals by Amount > > 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter > > 14. Summary of Sales by Year > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 03:01:31 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:01:31 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Just added to simple sample application: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... etc. The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:21:52 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have added new sample form to the sample solution to demonstrate Parent/Child design technique: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_2.zip?ccr=5258 > > Once again - nothing very special - just collecting all the necessary "How To" techniques within one sample solution for us to speedily proceed with Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conversion when the conversion project will start next week. > > Can we shortly discuss the main goal of this first coming project? > > For me (if I'd have been a ProductOwner/Customer) - the main goal is to get conversion work ASAP (and I (if I'd have been a ProductOwner) currently do not care what MS technologies will be used to communicate with backend - they should just work well enough for converted Northwind application, which I (as ProductOwner and my customers) plan to use as a desktop application. > > For me (as I'm in the role of SCRUMMaster for this project) - the main goal in this project is to get teamwork organized with as little as possible troubles/impediments for team members (including myself). And I'm not trying to "reach the stars" with this goal on this stage - just to get some satisfactory distributed teamwork environment using mainly feely available tools and technologies ... > > The roadmap/main goal we're aiming at AFAIU is to use ADO.NET Entity Framework in the future but for the first project we assume that we do not even know that such technology exists... > > OK? :) > > Please add your comments/notes for use to have common understanding of this forst project main goal(s)... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 03:13:34 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:13:34 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmUgU0NSVU0gUHJvamVjdCBCYWNrbG9n?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team at all, I have posted "Product Backlog" for the conversion project here: http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!142 Please comment/add new entries to it: first what we (SCRUM tesm) will have to do next week is to evaluate how much it could take to implement this or that entry from ProductBacklog. Then deliver this information to ProductOwner for him to prioritize the sequence of implementation of features he wanted to get in the context of limited time/resources... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:12:04 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > > Hello Mark, > > You're welcome to join http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Breen > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:27:30 +0000 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > > > Hello Scrum Team, > > > > I have been watching closely the progress Shamil has been making, and > > wishing I could join, but fearing I may not be able to contribute much. > > > > I also see that there are already enough members in the team. However, if > > you think at this point there is merit, I would like to volunteer to join, > > perhaps as the product owner. From the recent content from Shamil, I see > > that it might useful to split these two roles that Shamil currently has ie, > > Scrum Master and Product Owner. > > > > If I am too late, absolutely no offence, I will continue to lurk, but if you > > want another member, I am available, > > > > let me know what your preference it, > > > > thanks > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > > > Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. > > > I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their > > > winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? > > > The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent > > > form/report as grids/tables. > > > > > > The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of > > > objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. > > > > > > According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to > > > evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" > > > evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that > > > backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any > > > measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be > > > eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. > > > But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry > > > will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period > > > of time than the other "ligher" ones... > > > > > > This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker > > > Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". > > > > > > Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: > > > > > > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker > > > > > > We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three > > > usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of > > > Product Backlog Entries. > > > > > > Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent > > > as possible. > > > > > > Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by > > > time and space? > > > Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the > > > below BackLog if you see some issues with it. > > > > > > N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in > > > preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole > > > responsibility of ProductOwner.... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > P.S. Product Backlog > > > > > > Forms > > > ==== > > > > > > 1. Categories > > > 2. Customer Labels Dialog > > > 3. Customer Orders > > > 4. Customer Orders Subform1 > > > 5. Customer Orders Subform2 > > > 6. Customer Phone List > > > 7. Customers > > > 8. Employees > > > 9. Main Switchboard > > > 10. Orders > > > 11. Orders Subform > > > 12. Product List > > > 13. Products > > > 14. Quarterly Orders > > > 15. Quarterly Orders Subform > > > 16. Sales Analysis > > > 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 > > > 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 > > > 19. Sales by Year Dialog > > > 20. Sales Reports Dialog > > > 21. Startup > > > 22. Suppliers > > > > > > Reports > > > ===== > > > 1. Alphabetical List of Products > > > 2. Catalog > > > 3. Catalog Subreport > > > 4. Customer Labels > > > 5. Employee Sales by Country > > > 6. Invoice > > > 7. Products by Category > > > 8. Sales by Category > > > 9. Sales by Category Subreport > > > 10. Sales by Year > > > 11. Sales by Year Subreport > > > 12. Sales Totals by Amount > > > 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter > > > 14. Summary of Sales by Year > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 12 08:29:19 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. This is a topic for discussion. The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: Customer Id Name etc. Order Id CustomerId etc. OrderLine Id OrderId etc. The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> Hi SCRUM team at all, Just added to simple sample application: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... etc. The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 09:58:47 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:58:47 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, I'm for proposed renaming. Can you do it? The current db backup is uploaded here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Note: - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using them. I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my old habit abandoned while working on this project... While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it as Name - that's OK with me also etc. One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software product - test conversion Northwind application... For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will say "Yes" then do this rehaming. What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff on later steps... I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited resources we have. By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use table name prefix for ID fields)... I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some reasons they could make others informed about or not... As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work "done" and project released as quick as possible... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 12 10:06:23 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:06:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: <13BC2143D86F43ADBEB0C846C254625C@Mattys> Yes - but I have a question. Are there more hours in the day over there? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, > > I'm for proposed renaming. > Can you do it? > The current db backup is uploaded here: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Note: > > - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity > fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using > them. > > I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with > one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: > CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of > technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and > therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my > old habit abandoned while working on this project... > > While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of > Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd > not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it > as Name - that's OK with me also etc. > > One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all > know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be > useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to > levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details > then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps > (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... > > I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg > proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software > product - test conversion Northwind application... > > For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS > document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one > exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary > Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like > that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name > suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... > > Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with > their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will > say "Yes" then do this rehaming. > > What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? > I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel > ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to > have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff > on later steps... > > I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming > conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd > probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited > resources we have. > > By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to > "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use > table name prefix for ID fields)... > > I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there > is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate > in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay > "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can > temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some > reasons they could make others informed about or not... > > As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems > with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such > problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. > > .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect > or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the > first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within > this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to > concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work > "done" and project released as quick as possible... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > >> Hi SCRUM team >> >> Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I >> remember many years ago JC ranting about this. >> >> As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes >> in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't >> get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same >> adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards >> >> One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the >> properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the >> db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of >> course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via >> the DataTable. >> Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read >> incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and >> correct. >> >> That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than >> such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned >> quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having >> this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model >> that there is no excuse to not do so. >> >> In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, >> but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the >> fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should >> you feel so. >> >> This is a topic for discussion. >> >> The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: >> >> Customer >> Id >> Name >> etc. >> >> Order >> Id >> CustomerId >> etc. >> >> OrderLine >> Id >> OrderId >> etc. >> >> The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary >> key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of >> course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and >> this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain >> "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket >> science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to >> remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't >> fail. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> Just added to simple sample application: >> >> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip >> >> - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; >> - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; >> - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. >> >> Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got >> some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the >> real conversion project. For example: >> >> 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia >> foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; >> >> 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after >> upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name >> etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have >> them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... >> >> etc. >> >> The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be >> fixed... >> >> There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and >> propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 10:25:21 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:25:21 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: <13BC2143D86F43ADBEB0C846C254625C@Mattys> References: <13BC2143D86F43ADBEB0C846C254625C@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you, Mike, No, there is no such a luxury here - but there should be somebody to bulldoze (break down large pieces) of this project to have it going... Hope you will have this privilegy to bulldoze current project's follow-up projects somewhere in not that far future :) Well, in fact your purchase of VS2008 Prof. is a kind of such a "bulldozing" :) Returning credits now :) Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. In fact I'm having some troubles with parallel work for money because of only 24 hours long days here... -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:06:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Yes - but I have a question. > Are there more hours in the day over there? > > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:58 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > > Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, > > > > I'm for proposed renaming. > > Can you do it? > > The current db backup is uploaded here: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > > > Note: > > > > - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity > > fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using > > them. > > > > I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with > > one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: > > CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of > > technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and > > therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my > > old habit abandoned while working on this project... > > > > While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of > > Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd > > not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it > > as Name - that's OK with me also etc. > > > > One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all > > know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be > > useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to > > levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details > > then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps > > (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... > > > > I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg > > proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software > > product - test conversion Northwind application... > > > > For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS > > document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one > > exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary > > Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like > > that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name > > suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... > > > > Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with > > their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will > > say "Yes" then do this rehaming. > > > > What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? > > I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel > > ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to > > have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff > > on later steps... > > > > I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming > > conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd > > probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited > > resources we have. > > > > By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to > > "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use > > table name prefix for ID fields)... > > > > I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there > > is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate > > in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay > > "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can > > temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some > > reasons they could make others informed about or not... > > > > As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems > > with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such > > problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. > > > > .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect > > or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the > > first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within > > this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to > > concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work > > "done" and project released as quick as possible... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > >> Hi SCRUM team > >> > >> Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I > >> remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > >> > >> As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes > >> in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't > >> get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same > >> adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > >> > >> One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the > >> properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the > >> db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of > >> course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via > >> the DataTable. > >> Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read > >> incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and > >> correct. > >> > >> That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than > >> such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned > >> quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having > >> this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model > >> that there is no excuse to not do so. > >> > >> In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, > >> but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the > >> fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should > >> you feel so. > >> > >> This is a topic for discussion. > >> > >> The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > >> > >> Customer > >> Id > >> Name > >> etc. > >> > >> Order > >> Id > >> CustomerId > >> etc. > >> > >> OrderLine > >> Id > >> OrderId > >> etc. > >> > >> The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary > >> key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of > >> course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and > >> this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain > >> "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket > >> science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to > >> remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't > >> fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >> >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > >> > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> > >> Just added to simple sample application: > >> > >> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > >> > >> - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > >> - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > >> - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > >> > >> Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got > >> some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the > >> real conversion project. For example: > >> > >> 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia > >> foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > >> > >> 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after > >> upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name > >> etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have > >> them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > >> > >> etc. > >> > >> The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be > >> fixed... > >> > >> There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and > >> propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 10:52:02 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:52:02 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, You're very probably aware - if not here is a hint on how to do renaming quickly: - open MS SQL 2005 NorthwindNet 'Main' datamodel diagram and do all renaming directly in it with saving current edits (CTLS+S) once in a while as you're doing renaming... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 12 12:36:57 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:36:57 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil When I state "hysterical" it is for new projects and databases I'm in control of. Of course, for legal setups you often would leave it as is, and I think Northwind is such a case. As for which naming convention we should use, I'm quite flexible if we just try to stick to one. But it is difficult - I can see that some have one for WinForms and another for WebForms, oh well. I could even live with OrderId for the primary key of table Order. However, in code you'll see: someDataTable.OrderId someDataTable.CustomerId Now which is - if any - the PK of someDataTable? If you have: someDataTable.Id someDataTable.CustomerId there is no doubt. Id is the PK and CustomerId is some FK. But this is just my preference, nothing more, nothing less. For tables given names equal to reserved word I believe you can just bracket these like: [Order], at least in Access and SQL Server. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 15:58:47 >>> Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, I'm for proposed renaming. Can you do it? The current db backup is uploaded here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Note: - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using them. I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my old habit abandoned while working on this project... While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it as Name - that's OK with me also etc. One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software product - test conversion Northwind application... For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will say "Yes" then do this rehaming. What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff on later steps... I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited resources we have. By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use table name prefix for ID fields)... I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some reasons they could make others informed about or not... As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work "done" and project released as quick as possible... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 12 12:37:34 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:37:34 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil That may be true for renaming (haven't tried) but I don't think field properties are written back. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 16:52:02 >>> Hi Gustav, You're very probably aware - if not here is a hint on how to do renaming quickly: - open MS SQL 2005 NorthwindNet 'Main' datamodel diagram and do all renaming directly in it with saving current edits (CTLS+S) once in a while as you're doing renaming... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 13:45:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:45:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, > someDataTable.Id > someDataTable.CustomerId > > there is no doubt. Id is the PK and CustomerId is some FK. In the naming convention I'm currently using in NorthwindNet db it would be like that: > Customer.CustomerId > Order.CustomerId and it's clear where it's a primary key and where it's a foreign key. But let's go renaming with your proposed named conventions Customer.Id Order.CustomerId Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:58:07 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > When I state "hysterical" it is for new projects and databases I'm in control of. Of course, for legal setups you often would leave it as is, and I think Northwind is such a case. > > As for which naming convention we should use, I'm quite flexible if we just try to stick to one. But it is difficult - I can see that some have one for WinForms and another for WebForms, oh well. > I could even live with OrderId for the primary key of table Order. However, in code you'll see: > > someDataTable.OrderId > someDataTable.CustomerId > > Now which is - if any - the PK of someDataTable? If you have: > > someDataTable.Id > someDataTable.CustomerId > > there is no doubt. Id is the PK and CustomerId is some FK. > But this is just my preference, nothing more, nothing less. > > For tables given names equal to reserved word I believe you can just bracket these like: [Order], at least in Access and SQL Server. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 15:58:47 >>> > > Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, > > I'm for proposed renaming. > Can you do it? > The current db backup is uploaded here: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Note: > > - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using them. > > I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my old habit abandoned while working on this project... > > While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it as Name - that's OK with me also etc. > > One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... > > I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software product - test conversion Northwind application... > > For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... > > Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will say "Yes" then do this rehaming. > > What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff on later steps... > > I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited resources we have. > > By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use table name prefix for ID fields)... > > I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some reasons they could make others informed about or not... > > As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. > > .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work "done" and project released as quick as possible... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi SCRUM team > > > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > > > This is a topic for discussion. > > > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > > > Customer > > Id > > Name > > etc. > > > > Order > > Id > > CustomerId > > etc. > > > > OrderLine > > Id > > OrderId > > etc. > > > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > Just added to simple sample application: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > > > etc. > > > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 13 02:47:02 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:47:02 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2FtcGxlIC5ORVQgRm9ybXMvUmVwb3J0cyBEZXNpZ24g?= =?koi8-r?b?VGVjaG5pcXVlcyAtIFdhczogUmU6IFNjcnVtICYgQyMgLSBWUyB2?= =?koi8-r?b?ZXJzaW9ucyB3ZSBoYXZl?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have just added and posted some more samples here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_4.zip?ccr=1869 - Calculated dataSet tables's columns (Customer.CustomerCodeAndName column in NorthWindDataModelDataSet) - ComboBoxes' binding in grid - ShipVia and CustomerId in ShipperOrdersForm's grid Source: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.data.datacolumn.expression.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:01:31 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:21:52 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have added new sample form to the sample solution to demonstrate Parent/Child design technique: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_2.zip?ccr=5258 > > > > Once again - nothing very special - just collecting all the necessary "How To" techniques within one sample solution for us to speedily proceed with Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conversion when the conversion project will start next week. > > > > Can we shortly discuss the main goal of this first coming project? > > > > For me (if I'd have been a ProductOwner/Customer) - the main goal is to get conversion work ASAP (and I (if I'd have been a ProductOwner) currently do not care what MS technologies will be used to communicate with backend - they should just work well enough for converted Northwind application, which I (as ProductOwner and my customers) plan to use as a desktop application. > > > > For me (as I'm in the role of SCRUMMaster for this project) - the main goal in this project is to get teamwork organized with as little as possible troubles/impediments for team members (including myself). And I'm not trying to "reach the stars" with this goal on this stage - just to get some satisfactory distributed teamwork environment using mainly feely available tools and technologies ... > > > > The roadmap/main goal we're aiming at AFAIU is to use ADO.NET Entity Framework in the future but for the first project we assume that we do not even know that such technology exists... > > > > OK? :) > > > > Please add your comments/notes for use to have common understanding of this forst project main goal(s)... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Mar 14 09:41:57 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:41:57 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have made sample database tables' columns renaming according to Gustav proposals - new version of db backup is here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database/NorthWindNET%7C_DB%7C_BackUp%7C_20090314.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:37:34 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > That may be true for renaming (haven't tried) but I don't think field properties are written back. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 16:52:02 >>> > Hi Gustav, > > You're very probably aware - if not here is a hint on how to do renaming quickly: > > - open MS SQL 2005 NorthwindNet 'Main' datamodel diagram and do all renaming directly in it with saving current edits (CTLS+S) once in a while as you're doing renaming... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi SCRUM team > > > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > > > This is a topic for discussion. > > > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > > > Customer > > Id > > Name > > etc. > > > > Order > > Id > > CustomerId > > etc. > > > > OrderLine > > Id > > OrderId > > etc. > > > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > > > /gustav > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Mar 14 13:21:13 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team, Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). Please ask your questions. Please make your estimations. You can download workbook with BackLog items here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 or here: http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. FORMS ===== 1 Categories 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 3 Customer Orders 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 5 Customer Orders Subform2 6 Customer Phone List 7 Customers => 2 8 Employees => 5 9 Main Switchboard 10 Orders 11 Orders Subform => 1 12 Product List 13 Products 14 Quarterly Orders 15 Quarterly Orders Subform 16 Sales Analysis => ??? 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? 19 Sales by Year Dialog 20 Sales Reports Dialog 21 Startup 22 Suppliers REPORTS ======= 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 2 Catalog 3 Catalog Subreport 4 Customer Labels 5 Employee Sales by Country 6 Invoice => 5 7 Products by Category 8 Sales by Category 9 Sales by Category Subreport 10 Sales by Year 11 Sales by Year Subreport 12 Sales Totals by Amount 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter 14 Summary of Sales by Year From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 14:13:23 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:13:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all Message-ID: <29f585dd0903141213w2f1448ccq4ff1f866e8ae527a@mail.gmail.com> After months of toying with various languages like Python and Ruby (which are lots of fun but I don't see any job postings for them) I have decided that it's time to pinch my nose and jump into the C# pool. How's the water? A. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Mar 14 14:33:32 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:33:32 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?SGVsbG8gYWxs?= In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0903141213w2f1448ccq4ff1f866e8ae527a@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0903141213w2f1448ccq4ff1f866e8ae527a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The C# sun is rising and is starting to shine full power here at dba-VB, and the water is getting hot, Arthur, welcome to the club! :) -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 14 14:44:49 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:44:49 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all Message-ID: Hi Arthur Yes, it is perfect. Jump! /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 14-03-2009 20:13 >>> After months of toying with various languages like Python and Ruby (which are lots of fun but I don't see any job postings for them) I have decided that it's time to pinch my nose and jump into the C# pool. How's the water? A. From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat Mar 14 18:45:34 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:45:34 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all References: Message-ID: All ...we got to get Bryan to change the list name to dba-dotnet :) ...ain't no .net, much less C# gurus even gonna look at a vb list :( ...and no slight meant to Shamil or Gustav, but we could use a couple :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Gustav Brock" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:44 PM To: Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Hello all > Hi Arthur > > Yes, it is perfect. Jump! > > /gustav > >>>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 14-03-2009 20:13 >>> > After months of toying with various languages like Python and Ruby (which > are lots of fun but I don't see any job postings for them) I have decided > that it's time to pinch my nose and jump into the C# pool. How's the > water? > > A. > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 20:56:43 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:56:43 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29f585dd0903141856n7639d302gc9f44ca36f9a7584@mail.gmail.com> Cannonballllllllll... On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > Yes, it is perfect. Jump! > > /gustav > From Gustav at cactus.dk Sun Mar 15 03:17:10 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:17:10 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all Message-ID: Hi William That is a good idea. /gustav >>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 15-03-2009 00:45 >>> ...we got to get Bryan to change the list name to dba-dotnet :) From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 16 11:15:09 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. I have made mine over weekend. Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Hi SCRUM Team, > > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: > > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. > > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > Please ask your questions. > Please make your estimations. > > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > or here: > > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. > > > FORMS > ===== > > 1 Categories > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > 3 Customer Orders > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > 6 Customer Phone List > 7 Customers => 2 > 8 Employees => 5 > 9 Main Switchboard > 10 Orders > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > 12 Product List > 13 Products > 14 Quarterly Orders > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > 21 Startup > 22 Suppliers > > REPORTS > ======= > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > 2 Catalog > 3 Catalog Subreport > 4 Customer Labels > 5 Employee Sales by Country > 6 Invoice => 5 > 7 Products by Category > 8 Sales by Category > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > 10 Sales by Year > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 16 17:37:35 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 01:37:35 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RllJOiBHb3QgQ1NNIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIHRvZGF5Li4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and other projects. Thank you. -- Shamil From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 02:03:32 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 07:03:32 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well done Shamil. Max On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM > endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area ( > http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 17 02:16:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:16:58 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... References: Message-ID: <6645DEA9757640B18593B4A0D354A8A1@Mattys> My sentiments exactly - Congratulations. And gratitude for sharing your successes with all as you do. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:03 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > Well done Shamil. > > Max > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil > wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf >> >> Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM >> endevour... >> >> I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area ( >> http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it >> will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion >> and >> other projects. >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marklbreen at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 06:08:14 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:08:14 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Shamil, Congratulations to you on this, I hope it is profitable for you in next few years, Mark 2009/3/16 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM > endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area ( > http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 17 08:35:27 2009 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us. ???????????? (hope this is close) Jack -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... Hi All, Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and other projects. Thank you. -- Shamil _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 09:07:01 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:07:01 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] test Message-ID: <49BFAE85.5090504@gmail.com> testing if I am subscribed. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 09:45:45 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:45:45 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?dGVzdA==?= In-Reply-To: <49BFAE85.5090504@gmail.com> References: <49BFAE85.5090504@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi John, Yes, you're. Welcome to dba-VB! :) Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:02:24 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:24 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > I have made mine over weekend. > > Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: > > > > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. > > > > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > > > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > > > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > > > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > > > Please ask your questions. > > Please make your estimations. > > > > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > > > or here: > > > > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. > > > > > > FORMS > > ===== > > > > 1 Categories > > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > 3 Customer Orders > > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > 6 Customer Phone List > > 7 Customers => 2 > > 8 Employees => 5 > > 9 Main Switchboard > > 10 Orders > > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > 12 Product List > > 13 Products > > 14 Quarterly Orders > > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > 21 Startup > > 22 Suppliers > > > > REPORTS > > ======= > > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > 2 Catalog > > 3 Catalog Subreport > > 4 Customer Labels > > 5 Employee Sales by Country > > 6 Invoice => 5 > > 7 Products by Category > > 8 Sales by Category > > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > 10 Sales by Year > > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:02:54 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:54 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > I have made mine over weekend. > > Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: > > > > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. > > > > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > > > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > > > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > > > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > > > Please ask your questions. > > Please make your estimations. > > > > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > > > or here: > > > > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. > > > > > > FORMS > > ===== > > > > 1 Categories > > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > 3 Customer Orders > > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > 6 Customer Phone List > > 7 Customers => 2 > > 8 Employees => 5 > > 9 Main Switchboard > > 10 Orders > > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > 12 Product List > > 13 Products > > 14 Quarterly Orders > > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > 21 Startup > > 22 Suppliers > > > > REPORTS > > ======= > > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > 2 Catalog > > 3 Catalog Subreport > > 4 Customer Labels > > 5 Employee Sales by Country > > 6 Invoice => 5 > > 7 Products by Category > > 8 Sales by Category > > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > 10 Sales by Year > > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:15:16 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:15:16 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RllJOiBHb3QgQ1NNIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIHRvZGF5Li4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you everybody for your congratulations! I will try to keep facilitating "SCRUM values" here as far as I have got them from my CSM course and as I currently understand them - there should be mistakes and inconsistencies very probably in this my facilitating as I'm only beginning my SCRUMMaster activity for broad audience but I do expect there should be much more useful and interesting results demonstrated by all the involved parties, especially by SCRUM team members... Here they are (in the sequence they joined the team): - Gustav Brock, - Mike Mattys, - Doug Murphy and - John Colby And our ProductOwner/StakeHolder: - Mark Breen Thank you. :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Jack and Pat" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of > us. > > ???????????? (hope this is close) > > Jack > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area > (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 17 12:15:15 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:15:15 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog Planning Game... Message-ID: Hi Shamil That is perfectly OK for me. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 18:02 >>> Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:15:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:15:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RllJOiBHb3QgQ1NNIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIHRvZGF5Li4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you everybody for your congratulations! I will try to keep facilitating "SCRUM values" here as far as I have got them from my CSM course and as I currently understand them - there should be mistakes and inconsistencies very probably in this my facilitating as I'm only beginning my SCRUMMaster activity for broad audience but I do expect there should be much more useful and interesting results demonstrated by all the involved parties, especially by SCRUM team members... Here they are (in the sequence they joined the team): - Gustav Brock, - Mike Mattys, - Doug Murphy and - John Colby And our ProductOwner/StakeHolder: - Mark Breen Thank you. :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Jack and Pat" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of > us. > > ???????????? (hope this is close) > > Jack > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area > (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:17:37 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:17:37 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry for posting the same message twice - that was my Internet -email agent issue. -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:54 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. > < snip> From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 12:23:16 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BFDC84.6020108@gmail.com> That sounds good to me also. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >> I have made mine over weekend. >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> To: dba-VB >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... >> >> >>> Hi SCRUM Team, >>> >>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: >>> >>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >>> >>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. >>> >>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >>> >>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) >>> >>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >>> >>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >>> >>> Please ask your questions. >>> Please make your estimations. >>> >>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >>> >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >>> >>> or here: >>> >>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >>> >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> >>> P.S. >>> >>> >>> FORMS >>> ===== >>> >>> 1 Categories >>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >>> 3 Customer Orders >>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >>> 6 Customer Phone List >>> 7 Customers => 2 >>> 8 Employees => 5 >>> 9 Main Switchboard >>> 10 Orders >>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 >>> 12 Product List >>> 13 Products >>> 14 Quarterly Orders >>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog >>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog >>> 21 Startup >>> 22 Suppliers >>> >>> REPORTS >>> ======= >>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >>> 2 Catalog >>> 3 Catalog Subreport >>> 4 Customer Labels >>> 5 Employee Sales by Country >>> 6 Invoice => 5 >>> 7 Products by Category >>> 8 Sales by Category >>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport >>> 10 Sales by Year >>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport >>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount >>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-VB mailing list >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 12:24:14 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:24:14 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BFDCBE.3010203@gmail.com> I was wondering... I have a new web site and my wife is informing me of emails she receives twice. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Sorry for posting the same message twice - that was my Internet -email agent issue. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:54 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. >> >> > < snip> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 12:26:34 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:26:34 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BFDD4A.10903@gmail.com> Congratulations Shamil on the certification! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you everybody for your congratulations! > > I will try to keep facilitating "SCRUM values" here as far as I have got them from my CSM course and as I currently understand them - there should be mistakes and inconsistencies very probably in this my facilitating as I'm only beginning my SCRUMMaster activity for broad audience but I do expect there should be much more useful and interesting results demonstrated by all the involved parties, especially by SCRUM team members... > > Here they are (in the sequence they joined the team): > > - Gustav Brock, > - Mike Mattys, > - Doug Murphy and > - John Colby > > And our ProductOwner/StakeHolder: > > - Mark Breen > > Thank you. :) > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Jack and Pat" > To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 > Subject: RE: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > > >> Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of >> us. >> >> ???????????? (hope this is close) >> >> Jack >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov >> Shamil >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM >> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. >> Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... >> >> Hi All, >> >> Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf >> >> Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... >> >> I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area >> (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it >> will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and >> other projects. >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 17 12:57:12 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... References: Message-ID: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would see me would be at the bottom of the pool! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and > myself. > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have > time to make his estimations. > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > estimations here - is that OK with you? > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there > is some work to do in coordinating them. > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >> I have made mine over weekend. >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan >> implementation/release... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> To: dba-VB >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> > >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following >> > values: >> > >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >> > >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on >> > the next estimation round. >> > >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >> > >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more >> > definitive estimation for this item.) >> > >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >> > >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >> > >> > Please ask your questions. >> > Please make your estimations. >> > >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >> > >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >> > >> > or here: >> > >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >> > >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > P.S. >> > >> > >> > FORMS >> > ===== >> > >> > 1 Categories >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >> > 3 Customer Orders >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >> > 6 Customer Phone List >> > 7 Customers => 2 >> > 8 Employees => 5 >> > 9 Main Switchboard >> > 10 Orders >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 >> > 12 Product List >> > 13 Products >> > 14 Quarterly Orders >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog >> > 21 Startup >> > 22 Suppliers >> > >> > REPORTS >> > ======= >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >> > 2 Catalog >> > 3 Catalog Subreport >> > 4 Customer Labels >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country >> > 6 Invoice => 5 >> > 7 Products by Category >> > 8 Sales by Category >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport >> > 10 Sales by Year >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 15:53:08 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:53:08 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> References: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you SCRUM team, let's wait for Doug estimatiion to arrive. Meanwhile shoudlnt' we try to select distributed source control system? - Here are two candidates: 1. BAZAAR http://bazaar-vcs.org/ and https://launchpad.net/ and 2. CODEPLEX http://www.codeplex.com/ I must say I didn't use nor the first nor the second. Shouldn't we try BAZAAR via Launchpad first of all? Bazaar/Lanchpad seems to be a really lightweight yet powerful source control system. Shouldn't we just create a project in Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/) and to put some files in it and just try to check-out/edit/check-in them distributed way and see what happens - just plain test text files? Please propose other options to consider for distributed source control. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. > > I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would > see me would be at the bottom of the pool! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and > > myself. > > > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he > > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have > > time to make his estimations. > > > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, > > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project > > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking > > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced > > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and > > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some > > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > > > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this > > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we > > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > > estimations here - is that OK with you? > > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there > > is some work to do in coordinating them. > > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > >> > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> > >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > >> I have made mine over weekend. > >> > >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today > >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of > >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to > >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan > >> implementation/release... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> To: dba-VB > >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > >> > >> > Hi SCRUM Team, > >> > > >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > >> > values: > >> > > >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > >> > > >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) > >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on > >> > the next estimation round. > >> > > >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make > >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - > >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > >> > > >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just > >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear > >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a > >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET > >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this > >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more > >> > definitive estimation for this item.) > >> > > >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > >> > > >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like > >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > >> > > >> > Please ask your questions. > >> > Please make your estimations. > >> > > >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > >> > > >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > >> > > >> > or here: > >> > > >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > >> > > >> > > >> > Thank you. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Shamil > >> > > >> > P.S. > >> > > >> > > >> > FORMS > >> > ===== > >> > > >> > 1 Categories > >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > >> > 3 Customer Orders > >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > >> > 6 Customer Phone List > >> > 7 Customers => 2 > >> > 8 Employees => 5 > >> > 9 Main Switchboard > >> > 10 Orders > >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > >> > 12 Product List > >> > 13 Products > >> > 14 Quarterly Orders > >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > >> > 21 Startup > >> > 22 Suppliers > >> > > >> > REPORTS > >> > ======= > >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > >> > 2 Catalog > >> > 3 Catalog Subreport > >> > 4 Customer Labels > >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country > >> > 6 Invoice => 5 > >> > 7 Products by Category > >> > 8 Sales by Category > >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > >> > 10 Sales by Year > >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 17 16:01:46 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... References: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> Message-ID: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. I'll have to download it and see if it runs. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Thank you SCRUM team, let's wait for Doug estimatiion to arrive. > > Meanwhile shoudlnt' we try to select distributed source control system? - > Here are two candidates: > > 1. BAZAAR > > http://bazaar-vcs.org/ and https://launchpad.net/ > > and > > 2. CODEPLEX > > http://www.codeplex.com/ > > I must say I didn't use nor the first nor the second. > > Shouldn't we try BAZAAR via Launchpad first of all? Bazaar/Lanchpad seems > to be a really lightweight yet powerful source control system. > > Shouldn't we just create a project in Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/) > and to put some files in it and just try to check-out/edit/check-in them > distributed way and see what happens - just plain test text files? > > Please propose other options to consider for distributed source control. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > >> I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. >> >> I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would >> see me would be at the bottom of the pool! >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >> Game... >> >> >> > >> > Hi SCRUM team at all, >> > >> > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and >> > myself. >> > >> > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me >> > he >> > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have >> > time to make his estimations. >> > >> > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, >> > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project >> > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking >> > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced >> > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and >> > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some >> > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). >> > >> > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting >> > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members >> > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any >> > NorthWind .NET form or report... >> > >> > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in >> > this >> > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done >> > we >> > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... >> > >> > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our >> > estimations here - is that OK with you? >> > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore >> > there >> > is some work to do in coordinating them. >> > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial >> > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week >> > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but >> > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related >> > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> > issues." >> > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >> > Game... >> > >> >> >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >> >> I have made mine over weekend. >> >> >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today >> >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of >> >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to >> >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan >> >> implementation/release... >> >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Shamil >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> >> To: dba-VB >> >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >> >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >> >> Game... >> >> >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> >> > >> >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product >> >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following >> >> > values: >> >> > >> >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >> >> > >> >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT >> >> > gmail.com) >> >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them >> >> > on >> >> > the next estimation round. >> >> > >> >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make >> >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - >> >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >> >> > >> >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - >> >> > just >> >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear >> >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's >> >> > a >> >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in >> >> > .NET >> >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time >> >> > this >> >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more >> >> > definitive estimation for this item.) >> >> > >> >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in >> >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >> >> > >> >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks >> >> > like >> >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >> >> > >> >> > Please ask your questions. >> >> > Please make your estimations. >> >> > >> >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >> >> > >> >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >> >> > >> >> > or here: >> >> > >> >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html >> >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Thank you. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Shamil >> >> > >> >> > P.S. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > FORMS >> >> > ===== >> >> > >> >> > 1 Categories >> >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >> >> > 3 Customer Orders >> >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >> >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >> >> > 6 Customer Phone List >> >> > 7 Customers => 2 >> >> > 8 Employees => 5 >> >> > 9 Main Switchboard >> >> > 10 Orders >> >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 >> >> > 12 Product List >> >> > 13 Products >> >> > 14 Quarterly Orders >> >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >> >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >> >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >> >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >> >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog >> >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog >> >> > 21 Startup >> >> > 22 Suppliers >> >> > >> >> > REPORTS >> >> > ======= >> >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >> >> > 2 Catalog >> >> > 3 Catalog Subreport >> >> > 4 Customer Labels >> >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country >> >> > 6 Invoice => 5 >> >> > 7 Products by Category >> >> > 8 Sales by Category >> >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport >> >> > 10 Sales by Year >> >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport >> >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount >> >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >> >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > dba-VB mailing list >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> dba-VB mailing list >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 17:19:08 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 01:19:08 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> References: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike and SCRUM team, If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files in it to share... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:53 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > > > > Thank you SCRUM team, let's wait for Doug estimatiion to arrive. > > > > Meanwhile shoudlnt' we try to select distributed source control system? - > > Here are two candidates: > > > > 1. BAZAAR > > > > http://bazaar-vcs.org/ and https://launchpad.net/ > > > > and > > > > 2. CODEPLEX > > > > http://www.codeplex.com/ > > > > I must say I didn't use nor the first nor the second. > > > > Shouldn't we try BAZAAR via Launchpad first of all? Bazaar/Lanchpad seems > > to be a really lightweight yet powerful source control system. > > > > Shouldn't we just create a project in Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/) > > and to put some files in it and just try to check-out/edit/check-in them > > distributed way and see what happens - just plain test text files? > > > > Please propose other options to consider for distributed source control. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > >> I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. > >> > >> I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would > >> see me would be at the bottom of the pool! > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > >> Game... > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> > > >> > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and > >> > myself. > >> > > >> > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me > >> > he > >> > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have > >> > time to make his estimations. > >> > > >> > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, > >> > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project > >> > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking > >> > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced > >> > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and > >> > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some > >> > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > >> > > >> > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > >> > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > >> > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > >> > NorthWind .NET form or report... > >> > > >> > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in > >> > this > >> > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done > >> > we > >> > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > >> > > >> > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > >> > estimations here - is that OK with you? > >> > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore > >> > there > >> > is some work to do in coordinating them. > >> > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > >> > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > >> > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > >> > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > >> > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > >> > > >> > Thank you. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Shamil > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > >> > issues." > >> > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > >> > Game... > >> > > >> >> > >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> >> > >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > >> >> I have made mine over weekend. > >> >> > >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today > >> >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of > >> >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to > >> >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan > >> >> implementation/release... > >> >> > >> >> Thank you. > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Shamil > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> >> To: dba-VB > >> >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > >> >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > >> >> Game... > >> >> > >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, > >> >> > > >> >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > >> >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > >> >> > values: > >> >> > > >> >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > >> >> > > >> >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT > >> >> > gmail.com) > >> >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them > >> >> > on > >> >> > the next estimation round. > >> >> > > >> >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make > >> >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - > >> >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > >> >> > > >> >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - > >> >> > just > >> >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear > >> >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's > >> >> > a > >> >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in > >> >> > .NET > >> >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time > >> >> > this > >> >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more > >> >> > definitive estimation for this item.) > >> >> > > >> >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > >> >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > >> >> > > >> >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks > >> >> > like > >> >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > >> >> > > >> >> > Please ask your questions. > >> >> > Please make your estimations. > >> >> > > >> >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > >> >> > > >> >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > >> >> > > >> >> > or here: > >> >> > > >> >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > >> >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Thank you. > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > Shamil > >> >> > > >> >> > P.S. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > FORMS > >> >> > ===== > >> >> > > >> >> > 1 Categories > >> >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > >> >> > 3 Customer Orders > >> >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > >> >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > >> >> > 6 Customer Phone List > >> >> > 7 Customers => 2 > >> >> > 8 Employees => 5 > >> >> > 9 Main Switchboard > >> >> > 10 Orders > >> >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > >> >> > 12 Product List > >> >> > 13 Products > >> >> > 14 Quarterly Orders > >> >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > >> >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > >> >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > >> >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > >> >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > >> >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > >> >> > 21 Startup > >> >> > 22 Suppliers > >> >> > > >> >> > REPORTS > >> >> > ======= > >> >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > >> >> > 2 Catalog > >> >> > 3 Catalog Subreport > >> >> > 4 Customer Labels > >> >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country > >> >> > 6 Invoice => 5 > >> >> > 7 Products by Category > >> >> > 8 Sales by Category > >> >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > >> >> > 10 Sales by Year > >> >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > >> >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > >> >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > >> >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> dba-VB mailing list > >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 06:43:20 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:43:20 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Message-ID: Hello Shamil, As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get access to the code on that project. If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, I believe that it would be the best choice. FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work well for all team members. My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. Mark 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all > need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can > be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities > simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), > and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download > and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python > interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and > setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well > organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > in it to share... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > > I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 06:52:54 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:52:54 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C0E096.7030601@gmail.com> Not to mention the fact that many of us don't use source control at all on a daily basis. It is another thing to come up to speed on. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Shamil, > As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues > with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the > project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became > a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was > only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get > access to the code on that project. > > If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, > I believe that it would be the best choice. > > FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on > our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, > Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of > course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough > with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some > routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small > solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work > well for all team members. > > My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it > becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever > architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members > so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > > > >> Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> >> If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all >> need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can >> be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities >> simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), >> and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download >> and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... >> >> Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python >> interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and >> setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? >> >> Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well >> organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files >> in it to share... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Mike Mattys" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... >> >> >>> Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. >>> I'll have to download it and see if it runs. >>> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 18 06:57:42 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:57:42 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog Planning Game... Message-ID: Hi Shamil I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to require some effort to set up and test. CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> Hi Mike and SCRUM team, If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files in it to share... Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 07:49:04 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:49:04 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark, Yes, source code control is important and very desirable but when resources are limited, and especially when there are many other tasks to solve to release final product then I suppose that automated source code control can be postponed. I personaly have experience of working in distributed team on several projects withoput automated source control - and that worked OK, and all code was available when needed etc.... The first project is small, and all code coordination can be done manually without that much overhead I suppose... Yes, this was my initiative yesterday to start talking on SCCS expecting that maybe somebody will come with ready to use solution/experience but my current proposal (because we do not have such experience as a team) is to postpone source code control for now, and to introduce it if we will make the project quicker than we will plan to do it. For now for this small project we can just split it into separate parts (source files within one solution) and have somebody to play the role of SCCS manually. In my opinion good candidates for distributed SCCS seems to be: CodePlex (http://www.codeplex.com/) and Bazaar (http://bazaar-vcs.org/ , https://launchpad.net/) Here is how CodePlex can be used: http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home still I'd postpone trying to do introduce SCCS in the very beginning of our project if only somebody of the team wouldn't want to invest their free time into that trial and to make a short instruction for everybody how to have our project seemslessly published and kept on CodePlex... Mark, I'm playing the role of SCRUMMaster and what I'm doing now (commenting here the issue of SCCS) is in fact shouldn't be my responsibility as I shoudln't influence team members solution to use or not to use SCCS... ...but you're a ProductOwner and according to this role asking to use SCCS by the team is also unusual practice - ProductOwner cares about product features and products releases and all the rest is not interesting to the ProductOwner usually, even "forbidden" to mention accoridng to SCRUM process as far as I understand it... But that's OK I suppose you and myself are currently talking about SCCS because here we currently have to have a kind of mixture of roles but when proposing/telling something we have to be very constructive and goal oriented to not fall into lengthy discussions on "best practices" etc. without developing and delivering real software customers are waiting for - if we can live without SCCS for some time let it be so? I think that our main customers are Access-D(dba-VB) memebers and you as a ProductOwner - would you like to see us (SCRUMMaster and team members) building robust SCCS and spending most of the time on that activity or you wanted us to have NorthWind.NET implemented for you to play with an see how it is done? Recap: - let's postpone SCCS usage in our environment if only somebody (Mark Breen?) will not come with ready to use and free solution for every team member to start using in fifteen minutes/half-an hour? - let's keep collecting info on available SCCS options to try them in the end of our projects if we will have enough time left. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:43:20 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Hello Shamil, > As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues > with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the > project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became > a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was > only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get > access to the code on that project. > > If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, > I believe that it would be the best choice. > > FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on > our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, > Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of > course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough > with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some > routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small > solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work > well for all team members. > > My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it > becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever > architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members > so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all > > need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can > > be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities > > simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), > > and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download > > and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > > > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python > > interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and > > setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > > > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well > > organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > > system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > > in it to share... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > > > Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > > > I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 07:53:41 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:53:41 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <49C0E096.7030601@gmail.com> References: <49C0E096.7030601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <<< It is another thing to come up to speed on. >>> Yes. -----Original Message----- From: John W Colby To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:52:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Not to mention the fact that many of us don't use source control at all > on a daily basis. It is another thing to come up to speed on. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Mark Breen wrote: > > Hello Shamil, > > As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues > > with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the > > project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became > > a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was > > only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get > > access to the code on that project. > > > > If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, > > I believe that it would be the best choice. > > > > FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on > > our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, > > Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of > > course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough > > with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some > > routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small > > solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work > > well for all team members. > > > > My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it > > becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever > > architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members > > so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > >> Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > >> > >> If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all > >> need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can > >> be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities > >> simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), > >> and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download > >> and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > >> > >> Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python > >> interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and > >> setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > >> > >> Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well > >> organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > >> in it to share... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > >> Basic and related programming issues." > >> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > >> > >> > >>> Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > >>> I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > >>> > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 07:54:38 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:54:38 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?IGtMb2cgUGxhbm5pbmdHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, Gustav, I agree, Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog PlanningGame... > Hi Shamil > > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to require some effort to set up and test. > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: > > http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files in it to share... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 12:49:49 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:49:49 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RndkOiB0byB0ZXN0?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Mark, This is good news. This is good that you made a proposal, and then came with a constructive solution very promptly :) It's very much appreciated! Still I'd not force SCRUM team members to use this solution from the very beginning if they only do not want to try it by themselves: one of the main SCRUMMaster's roles AFAIG is to "shield" team members from any impediments coming from outside, especially from ProductOwner :) Well, I'm a kind of kidding for this certain our case with SCCS :) - in fact being a developer it is very tempting for me to try this solution with your server... But let's SCRUM team members decide by themselves? - please Gustav, Mike, John and Doug - based on tempting proposal of our respectful ProductOwner Mark would you like to start development next week with trying to setup SCC provided there will be first version of the source solution already there on our SCC Server? (I will try to put it there over weekend...) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:17:38 +0000 Subject: Fwd: to test > Hello All, > > Having just read the responses from all my first comment is absolutely OK, I > am product owner role in this project and as as such will try to adhere to just > that role. > > However, let me tell you that since I sent my first email this morning about > source control, I did some work before I read the additional emails that are > leaning torwards not using SCCS, so I will report here on that work, and > then the team can decide what they want to do. > > Shamil, I stress again here I am not attempting to push my opinions about > source control, just offering you the choice here, as I have already done a > little work on it today. > > I played with codeplex but found it terribly slow and eventually I did not > get it to work for me, I then googled the errors I was getting and saw other > had the same errors. > > ========== > I have created a subversion server so if you want to use it, you must do the > following four steps > > 1) download and install TortiseSVN from the following URL > http://tortoisesvn.net/downloads obviously choose the windows version you > need 32 bit probably. > (should finish in less than five mins, you do not need to reboot) > > > 2) create a folder on your PC where you would like the source code to be > stored and saved for you to work on. This will be the main working folder > you will use when running VS2008 > eg c:\scrum code\ > or > c:\my documents\Visual Studio 2005 > (should be very quick) > > > 3) right click on the new folder and go to your new context sensitive menu > item tortise SVN and then from the submenu, click "create repository here". > See the attached JPG. You will receive a msg box with the message, The > repository was successfully created. > (should also take just 30 seconds) > > last step > 4) You just need to do a check out, from the server, once, to allow the > client to know the address and authentication details, remember to click the > check box to "remember the authentication details" > again see the second jpg that I have attached to this email. The jpg has > two steps including in one picture. > > the url that you need is > > https://www.sjai.org:8443/svn/scrum01 > once you say OK, you can accept the suggestion to create a new folder and > then you will be prompted for your username and password > the users I have created are as follows > > username password > -------- -------- > shamil shamil09 > john john09 > mike mike09 > doug doub09 > gustav gustav09 > > > When you check out, you should receive one text file, I created this > afternoon named test.txt Feel free to update it with your name and anything > else you feel like, or create a few new files and commit them to our > respository. > > We can create new projects when we need to, but we may be happy with keeping > it simple for this project. > > I have tested this server here in Ireland with the big .bak file that Shamil > sent and it works well, if you want to try uploading a larger file, feel > free. > > Finally, these steps are all working here, so if you one person would like > to check that they work for you also, before the entire team spends time on > it, it would be better. > > let me add that if you have use source control, you will know that it is > really easy to work with and > > thanks > > Mark > > > > > > > > 2009/3/18 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > OK, Gustav, I agree, > > Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. > > CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: > > > http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home > > but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or > other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and > we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog > PlanningGame... > > > Hi Shamil > > > > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to > require some effort to set up and test. > > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the > Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: > > > > > http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we > all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR > can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those > utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS > this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with > upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via > .bat files... > > > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if > Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some > files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use > them? > > > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code > well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > in it to share... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Mark > > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (creating a repository locally.JPG) > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (checking out for the first time.JPG) > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 13:11:23 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:11:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: to test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C1394B.5060801@gmail.com> I am very interested in source control, always have been. I have never done it (though I have tried) simply because it didn't work and I had no one to fall back on for answers. I will certainly give Mark's instructions a shot and see what I see. I look at this as an additional tool in my box completely outside of this scrum project. Thanks Mark for researching this and setting it up. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you, Mark, > > This is good news. > This is good that you made a proposal, and then came with a constructive solution very promptly :) > It's very much appreciated! > > Still I'd not force SCRUM team members to use this solution from the very beginning if they only do not want to try it by themselves: one of the main SCRUMMaster's roles AFAIG is to "shield" team members from any impediments coming from outside, especially from ProductOwner :) > > Well, I'm a kind of kidding for this certain our case with SCCS :) - in fact being a developer it is very tempting for me to try this solution with your server... > > But let's SCRUM team members decide by themselves? - please Gustav, Mike, John and Doug - based on tempting proposal of our respectful ProductOwner Mark would you like to start development next week with trying to setup SCC provided there will be first version of the source solution already there on our SCC Server? (I will try to put it there over weekend...) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Breen > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:17:38 +0000 > Subject: Fwd: to test > > >> Hello All, >> >> Having just read the responses from all my first comment is absolutely OK, I >> am product owner role in this project and as as such will try to adhere to just >> that role. >> >> However, let me tell you that since I sent my first email this morning about >> source control, I did some work before I read the additional emails that are >> leaning torwards not using SCCS, so I will report here on that work, and >> then the team can decide what they want to do. >> >> Shamil, I stress again here I am not attempting to push my opinions about >> source control, just offering you the choice here, as I have already done a >> little work on it today. >> >> I played with codeplex but found it terribly slow and eventually I did not >> get it to work for me, I then googled the errors I was getting and saw other >> had the same errors. >> >> ========== >> I have created a subversion server so if you want to use it, you must do the >> following four steps >> >> 1) download and install TortiseSVN from the following URL >> http://tortoisesvn.net/downloads obviously choose the windows version you >> need 32 bit probably. >> (should finish in less than five mins, you do not need to reboot) >> >> >> 2) create a folder on your PC where you would like the source code to be >> stored and saved for you to work on. This will be the main working folder >> you will use when running VS2008 >> eg c:\scrum code\ >> or >> c:\my documents\Visual Studio 2005 >> (should be very quick) >> >> >> 3) right click on the new folder and go to your new context sensitive menu >> item tortise SVN and then from the submenu, click "create repository here". >> See the attached JPG. You will receive a msg box with the message, The >> repository was successfully created. >> (should also take just 30 seconds) >> >> last step >> 4) You just need to do a check out, from the server, once, to allow the >> client to know the address and authentication details, remember to click the >> check box to "remember the authentication details" >> again see the second jpg that I have attached to this email. The jpg has >> two steps including in one picture. >> >> the url that you need is >> >> https://www.sjai.org:8443/svn/scrum01 >> once you say OK, you can accept the suggestion to create a new folder and >> then you will be prompted for your username and password >> the users I have created are as follows >> >> username password >> -------- -------- >> shamil shamil09 >> john john09 >> mike mike09 >> doug doub09 >> gustav gustav09 >> >> >> When you check out, you should receive one text file, I created this >> afternoon named test.txt Feel free to update it with your name and anything >> else you feel like, or create a few new files and commit them to our >> respository. >> >> We can create new projects when we need to, but we may be happy with keeping >> it simple for this project. >> >> I have tested this server here in Ireland with the big .bak file that Shamil >> sent and it works well, if you want to try uploading a larger file, feel >> free. >> >> Finally, these steps are all working here, so if you one person would like >> to check that they work for you also, before the entire team spends time on >> it, it would be better. >> >> let me add that if you have use source control, you will know that it is >> really easy to work with and >> >> thanks >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2009/3/18 Salakhetdinov Shamil >> >> OK, Gustav, I agree, >> >> Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. >> >> CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: >> >> >> http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home >> >> but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or >> other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and >> we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Gustav Brock" >> To: >> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog >> PlanningGame... >> >> > Hi Shamil >> > >> > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to >> require some effort to set up and test. >> > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the >> Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: >> > >> > >> http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS >> > >> > /gustav >> > >> > >> > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> >> > >> > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> > >> > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we >> all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR >> can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those >> utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS >> this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with >> upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via >> .bat files... >> > >> > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if >> Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some >> files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use >> them? >> > >> > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code >> well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files >> in it to share... >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mark >> >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (creating a repository locally.JPG) >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (checking out for the first time.JPG) >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 13:13:34 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:13:34 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: to test - SCRUM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C139CE.1070000@gmail.com> I would ask that all members try to place the work SCRUM in the subject so that my filters can pick up all messages and place them in the right email box. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you, Mark, > > This is good news. > This is good that you made a proposal, and then came with a constructive solution very promptly :) > It's very much appreciated! > > Still I'd not force SCRUM team members to use this solution from the very beginning if they only do not want to try it by themselves: one of the main SCRUMMaster's roles AFAIG is to "shield" team members from any impediments coming from outside, especially from ProductOwner :) > > Well, I'm a kind of kidding for this certain our case with SCCS :) - in fact being a developer it is very tempting for me to try this solution with your server... > > But let's SCRUM team members decide by themselves? - please Gustav, Mike, John and Doug - based on tempting proposal of our respectful ProductOwner Mark would you like to start development next week with trying to setup SCC provided there will be first version of the source solution already there on our SCC Server? (I will try to put it there over weekend...) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Breen > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:17:38 +0000 > Subject: Fwd: to test > > >> Hello All, >> >> Having just read the responses from all my first comment is absolutely OK, I >> am product owner role in this project and as as such will try to adhere to just >> that role. >> >> However, let me tell you that since I sent my first email this morning about >> source control, I did some work before I read the additional emails that are >> leaning torwards not using SCCS, so I will report here on that work, and >> then the team can decide what they want to do. >> >> Shamil, I stress again here I am not attempting to push my opinions about >> source control, just offering you the choice here, as I have already done a >> little work on it today. >> >> I played with codeplex but found it terribly slow and eventually I did not >> get it to work for me, I then googled the errors I was getting and saw other >> had the same errors. >> >> ========== >> I have created a subversion server so if you want to use it, you must do the >> following four steps >> >> 1) download and install TortiseSVN from the following URL >> http://tortoisesvn.net/downloads obviously choose the windows version you >> need 32 bit probably. >> (should finish in less than five mins, you do not need to reboot) >> >> >> 2) create a folder on your PC where you would like the source code to be >> stored and saved for you to work on. This will be the main working folder >> you will use when running VS2008 >> eg c:\scrum code\ >> or >> c:\my documents\Visual Studio 2005 >> (should be very quick) >> >> >> 3) right click on the new folder and go to your new context sensitive menu >> item tortise SVN and then from the submenu, click "create repository here". >> See the attached JPG. You will receive a msg box with the message, The >> repository was successfully created. >> (should also take just 30 seconds) >> >> last step >> 4) You just need to do a check out, from the server, once, to allow the >> client to know the address and authentication details, remember to click the >> check box to "remember the authentication details" >> again see the second jpg that I have attached to this email. The jpg has >> two steps including in one picture. >> >> the url that you need is >> >> https://www.sjai.org:8443/svn/scrum01 >> once you say OK, you can accept the suggestion to create a new folder and >> then you will be prompted for your username and password >> the users I have created are as follows >> >> username password >> -------- -------- >> shamil shamil09 >> john john09 >> mike mike09 >> doug doub09 >> gustav gustav09 >> >> >> When you check out, you should receive one text file, I created this >> afternoon named test.txt Feel free to update it with your name and anything >> else you feel like, or create a few new files and commit them to our >> respository. >> >> We can create new projects when we need to, but we may be happy with keeping >> it simple for this project. >> >> I have tested this server here in Ireland with the big .bak file that Shamil >> sent and it works well, if you want to try uploading a larger file, feel >> free. >> >> Finally, these steps are all working here, so if you one person would like >> to check that they work for you also, before the entire team spends time on >> it, it would be better. >> >> let me add that if you have use source control, you will know that it is >> really easy to work with and >> >> thanks >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2009/3/18 Salakhetdinov Shamil >> >> OK, Gustav, I agree, >> >> Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. >> >> CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: >> >> >> http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home >> >> but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or >> other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and >> we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Gustav Brock" >> To: >> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog >> PlanningGame... >> >> > Hi Shamil >> > >> > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to >> require some effort to set up and test. >> > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the >> Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: >> > >> > >> http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS >> > >> > /gustav >> > >> > >> > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> >> > >> > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> > >> > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we >> all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR >> can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those >> utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS >> this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with >> upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via >> .bat files... >> > >> > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if >> Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some >> files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use >> them? >> > >> > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code >> well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files >> in it to share... >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mark >> >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (creating a repository locally.JPG) >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (checking out for the first time.JPG) >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 13:47:36 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:47:36 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team members, Still no e-mail with estimations from Doug. I have asked him today again to make the estimation worksheet and to send it to me for me to make and to publish combined worksheet. Let's wait for today, and if the estimations from Doug will not come we can start discussion based on our estimations and then Doug will join us? Thank you. -- Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W Colby > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning > Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > > > That sounds good to me also. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John > and myself. > > > > > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed > me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not > have time to make his estimations. > > > > > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to > come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this > project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but > taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for > experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly > design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as > shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's > SkyDrive). > > > > > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > > > > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application > in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that > done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > > > > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > estimations here - is that OK with you? > > > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore > there is some work to do in coordinating them. > > > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > > issues." > > > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > > > > > > > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > > >> > > >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > > >> I have made mine over weekend. > > >> > > >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come > today then I will immediately post all of them here to start > coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with > them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to > plan implementation/release... > > >> > > >> Thank you. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Shamil > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > >> To: dba-VB > > >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > > >> > > >> > > >>> Hi SCRUM Team, > > >>> > > >>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > values: > > >>> > > >>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > >>> > > >>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT > gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to > use them on the next estimation round. > > >>> > > >>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to > > >>> make first round estimantions as independent as possible - > > >>> http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > >>> > > >>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - > > >>> just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's > > >>> unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented > > >>> (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct > > >>> correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do > > > >>> here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer > > > >>> - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > >>> > > >>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > >>> > > >>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks > like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > >>> > > >>> Please ask your questions. > > >>> Please make your estimations. > > >>> > > >>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > >>> > > >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.D > > >>> ocuments/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > >>> > > >>> or here: > > >>> > > >>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > > >>> (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=S > > >>> CRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Thank you. > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Shamil > > >>> > > >>> P.S. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> FORMS > > >>> ===== > > >>> > > >>> 1 Categories > > >>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > >>> 3 Customer Orders > > >>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > >>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > >>> 6 Customer Phone List > > >>> 7 Customers => 2 > > >>> 8 Employees => 5 > > >>> 9 Main Switchboard > > >>> 10 Orders > > >>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > >>> 12 Product List > > >>> 13 Products > > >>> 14 Quarterly Orders > > >>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > >>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > >>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > >>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > >>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > >>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > >>> 21 Startup > > >>> 22 Suppliers > > >>> > > >>> REPORTS > > >>> ======= > > >>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > >>> 2 Catalog > > >>> 3 Catalog Subreport > > >>> 4 Customer Labels > > >>> 5 Employee Sales by Country > > >>> 6 Invoice => 5 > > >>> 7 Products by Category > > >>> 8 Sales by Category > > >>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > >>> 10 Sales by Year > > >>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > >>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > >>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > >>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> dba-VB mailing list > > >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> dba-VB mailing list > > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 14:36:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:36:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team members, I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:47:36 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > Hi SCRUM team members, > > Still no e-mail with estimations from Doug. > I have asked him today again to make the estimation worksheet and to send it to me for me to make and to publish combined worksheet. > > Let's wait for today, and if the estimations from Doug will not come we can start discussion based on our estimations and then Doug will join us? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W Colby > > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning > > Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > > > That sounds good to me also. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > > > > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John > > and myself. > > > > > > > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed > > me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not > > have time to make his estimations. > > > > > > > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to > > come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this > > project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but > > taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for > > experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly > > design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as > > shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's > > SkyDrive). > > > > > > > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > > > > > > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application > > in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that > > done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > > > > > > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > > estimations here - is that OK with you? > > > > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore > > there is some work to do in coordinating them. > > > > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > > > issues." > > > > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > >> > > > >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > > > >> I have made mine over weekend. > > > >> > > > >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come > > today then I will immediately post all of them here to start > > coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with > > them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to > > plan implementation/release... > > > >> > > > >> Thank you. > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Shamil > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > >> To: dba-VB > > > >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > > > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> Hi SCRUM Team, > > > >>> > > > >>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > > values: > > > >>> > > > >>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > >>> > > > >>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT > > gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to > > use them on the next estimation round. > > > >>> > > > >>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to > > > >>> make first round estimantions as independent as possible - > > > >>> http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > > >>> > > > >>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - > > > >>> just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's > > > >>> unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented > > > >>> (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct > > > >>> correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do > > > > > >>> here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer > > > > > >>> - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > > >>> > > > >>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > > >>> > > > >>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks > > like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > > >>> > > > >>> Please ask your questions. > > > >>> Please make your estimations. > > > >>> > > > >>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > > >>> > > > >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.D > > > >>> ocuments/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > > >>> > > > >>> or here: > > > >>> > > > >>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > > > >>> (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=S > > > >>> CRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Thank you. > > > >>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Shamil > > > >>> > > > >>> P.S. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> FORMS > > > >>> ===== > > > >>> > > > >>> 1 Categories > > > >>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > > >>> 3 Customer Orders > > > >>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > > >>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > > >>> 6 Customer Phone List > > > >>> 7 Customers => 2 > > > >>> 8 Employees => 5 > > > >>> 9 Main Switchboard > > > >>> 10 Orders > > > >>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > > >>> 12 Product List > > > >>> 13 Products > > > >>> 14 Quarterly Orders > > > >>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > > >>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > > >>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > > >>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > > >>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > > >>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > > >>> 21 Startup > > > >>> 22 Suppliers > > > >>> > > > >>> REPORTS > > > >>> ======= > > > >>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > > >>> 2 Catalog > > > >>> 3 Catalog Subreport > > > >>> 4 Customer Labels > > > >>> 5 Employee Sales by Country > > > >>> 6 Invoice => 5 > > > >>> 7 Products by Category > > > >>> 8 Sales by Category > > > >>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > > >>> 10 Sales by Year > > > >>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > > >>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > > >>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > > >>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > > >>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> dba-VB mailing list > > > >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> dba-VB mailing list > > > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 15:15:00 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:15:00 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C15644.3050803@gmail.com> Shamil, I receive "item seems to be missing" from the first link. I got it off the second link. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:47:36 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > >> Hi SCRUM team members, >> >> Still no e-mail with estimations from Doug. >> I have asked him today again to make the estimation worksheet and to send it to me for me to make and to publish combined worksheet. >> >> Let's wait for today, and if the estimations from Doug will not come we can start discussion based on our estimations and then Doug will join us? >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: John W Colby >>> To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning >>> Visual Basic and related programming issues." >>> >>> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >>> Game... >>> >>> >>>> That sounds good to me also. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi SCRUM team at all, >>>>> >>>>> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John >>>>> >>> and myself. >>> >>>>> I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed >>>>> >>> me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not >>> have time to make his estimations. >>> >>>>> What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to >>>>> >>> come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this >>> project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but >>> taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for >>> experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly >>> design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as >>> shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's >>> SkyDrive). >>> >>>>> I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting >>>>> >>> mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members >>> beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any >>> NorthWind .NET form or report... >>> >>>>> I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application >>>>> >>> in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that >>> done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... >>> >>>>> When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our >>>>> >>> estimations here - is that OK with you? >>> >>>>> I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore >>>>> >>> there is some work to do in coordinating them. >>> >>>>> In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial >>>>> >>> planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week >>> discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but >>> discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related >>> issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? >>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >>>>> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >>>>> issues." >>>>> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 >>>>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >>>>> >>> Game... >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi SCRUM team at all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >>>>>> I have made mine over weekend. >>>>>> >>>>>> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come >>>>>> >>> today then I will immediately post all of them here to start >>> coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with >>> them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to >>> plan implementation/release... >>> >>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Shamil >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >>>>>> To: dba-VB >>>>>> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >>>>>> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >>>>>> >>> Game... >>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi SCRUM Team, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product >>>>>>> >>> backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following >>> values: >>> >>>>>>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT >>>>>>> >>> gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to >>> use them on the next estimation round. >>> >>>>>>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to >>>>>>> make first round estimantions as independent as possible - >>>>>>> http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - >>>>>>> just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's >>>>>>> unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented >>>>>>> (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct >>>>>>> correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do >>>>>>> >>>>>>> here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in >>>>>>> >>> WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >>> >>>>>>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks >>>>>>> >>> like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >>> >>>>>>> Please ask your questions. >>>>>>> Please make your estimations. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.D >>>>>>> ocuments/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> or here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html >>>>>>> (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=S >>>>>>> CRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Shamil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> P.S. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> FORMS >>>>>>> ===== >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1 Categories >>>>>>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >>>>>>> 3 Customer Orders >>>>>>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >>>>>>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >>>>>>> 6 Customer Phone List >>>>>>> 7 Customers => 2 >>>>>>> 8 Employees => 5 >>>>>>> 9 Main Switchboard >>>>>>> 10 Orders >>>>>>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 >>>>>>> 12 Product List >>>>>>> 13 Products >>>>>>> 14 Quarterly Orders >>>>>>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >>>>>>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >>>>>>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >>>>>>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >>>>>>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog >>>>>>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog >>>>>>> 21 Startup >>>>>>> 22 Suppliers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> REPORTS >>>>>>> ======= >>>>>>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >>>>>>> 2 Catalog >>>>>>> 3 Catalog Subreport >>>>>>> 4 Customer Labels >>>>>>> 5 Employee Sales by Country >>>>>>> 6 Invoice => 5 >>>>>>> 7 Products by Category >>>>>>> 8 Sales by Category >>>>>>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport >>>>>>> 10 Sales by Year >>>>>>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport >>>>>>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount >>>>>>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >>>>>>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> dba-VB mailing list >>>>>>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>>>>>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> dba-VB mailing list >>>>>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>>>>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> dba-VB mailing list >>>>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>>>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 18 15:56:52 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... References: Message-ID: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> I've got it, thanks. I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, if called upon to do so! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with > all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not > have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation > numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original > plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend > rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > up&running. > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please > post your considerations. > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes > several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number > of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they > will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 16:39:49 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:39:49 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> I'm a little surprised at the high estimates myself. I was told to estimate times similar to doing it in Access and it would never take more than a few minutes to set up simple subforms for example. I estimated .5 hours for most of the subforms but everyone else estimates an hour or even more. Of course my estimates are not based on actual form dev work in .Net since I have none. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mike Mattys wrote: > I've got it, thanks. > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > if called upon to do so! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 18 16:46:19 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:46:19 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> Message-ID: Trust me, John, it can go either way. Depends largely on how you handle the data population. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:40 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... I'm a little surprised at the high estimates myself. I was told to estimate times similar to doing it in Access and it would never take more than a few minutes to set up simple subforms for example. I estimated .5 hours for most of the subforms but everyone else estimates an hour or even more. Of course my estimates are not based on actual form dev work in .Net since I have none. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mike Mattys wrote: > I've got it, thanks. > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, if called upon > to do so! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 19 01:50:58 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:50:58 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... Message-ID: Hi Shamil This is fine for me. The reason for my high estimates is that I probably spend more time on design as sloppy design for most clients and users indicates a sloppy application. Also, I've found that even when a task seems to be fast to get finished, you (I) often spend some time on evaluation of alternative methods - as Charlotte has mentioned multiple times, you often find that a task can be done in multiple ways. For this project where design is bound I may, however, have been too pessimistic. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 18-03-2009 20:36 >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 13:43:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:43:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNDUlVNOiBOb3J0aHdpbmQgLk5FVFBy?= =?koi8-r?b?b2R1Y3QJQmFja0xvZ1BsYW5uaW5nIEdhbWUuLi4=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, That's OK. Yes, I'd propose to use in this reports forms and reports bound to strongly typed datasets - this approach will let us to concentrate on designs and to have a a little coding - good for our team as we have members who are only startings developing in .NET but they have good experience with MS Access, and designing of .NET bound forms and reports should be relatively easuy for them to start with... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:50:58 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NETProduct BackLogPlanning Game... > Hi Shamil > > This is fine for me. > > The reason for my high estimates is that I probably spend more time on design as sloppy design for most clients and users indicates a sloppy application. Also, I've found that even when a task seems to be fast to get finished, you (I) often spend some time on evaluation of alternative methods - as Charlotte has mentioned multiple times, you often find that a task can be done in multiple ways. For this project where design is bound I may, however, have been too pessimistic. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 18-03-2009 20:36 >>> > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 13:52:44 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:52:44 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNDUlVNOiBOb3J0aHdpbmQgLk5FVFBy?= =?koi8-r?b?b2R1Y3QJQmFja0xvZ1BsYW5uaW5nIEdhbWUuLi4=?= In-Reply-To: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> References: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi John, First of all I'd note you seems to be very quick with MS Access forms and reports design :) We will try to fit your estimations but I'd propose we'd better have almost twice more time planned for this project (as AVG valu currently gives) to not make this project stressful - just fun of teamwork development. Yes, developing bound to datasets .NET WinForms and reports is similar in my opinion to manual design of bound MS Access forms/reports I'd even think that VS forms' layout design features (placing controls, alighing them etc.) is more powerful that in MS Access but you and Mike and Doug will still need time to adapt to all that features - hence better have as twice time as in our estimation... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: John W Colby To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:39:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NETProduct BackLogPlanning Game... > I'm a little surprised at the high estimates myself. I was told to > estimate times similar to doing it in Access and it would never take > more than a few minutes to set up simple subforms for example. I > estimated .5 hours for most of the subforms but everyone else estimates > an hour or even more. > > Of course my estimates are not based on actual form dev work in .Net > since I have none. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Mike Mattys wrote: > > I've got it, thanks. > > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > > if called upon to do so! > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 13:57:40 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:57:40 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > I've got it, thanks. > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > if called upon to do so! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning > Game... > > > > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with > > all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not > > have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > > estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation > > numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original > > plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend > > rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > > up&running. > > > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please > > post your considerations. > > > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes > > several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number > > of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they > > will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 19 14:18:21 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:18:21 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> Do I mean ...? :) Actually, I've never used it before so I wouldn't venture any such guesses. Lead on, Shamil, I'll try to follow. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > Hi Mike, > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) > should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - > which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then > we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 14:34:27 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:34:27 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> References: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you, Mike. If every SCRUM member agree I can pass the current set of estimations to ProductOwner for him to propose in what sequence he wanted to get forms and reports developed. OK? Also we will have to discuss (next week or later) what should be actual navigation between forms and reports as in the source MS Access NorthWind application not all forms and reports are available to be opened while navigating this sample MS Access application. For starters I'd just create an additional "fake switchboard" form to have all the other forms and reports available to be opened from this "fake switchboard". Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:18:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > Do I mean ...? :) > > Actually, I've never used it before > so I wouldn't venture any such guesses. > > Lead on, Shamil, I'll try to follow. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:57 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning > Game... > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) > > should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - > > which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then > > we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > From jwcolby at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 15:03:44 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:03:44 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C2A520.4010105@gmail.com> Agreed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you, Mike. > > If every SCRUM member agree I can pass the current set of estimations to ProductOwner for him to propose in what sequence he wanted to get forms and reports developed. OK? > > Also we will have to discuss (next week or later) what should be actual navigation between forms and reports as in the source MS Access NorthWind application not all forms and reports are available to be opened while navigating this sample MS Access application. For starters I'd just create an additional "fake switchboard" form to have all the other forms and reports available to be opened from this "fake switchboard". > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:18:21 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > >> Do I mean ...? :) >> >> Actually, I've never used it before >> so I wouldn't venture any such guesses. >> >> Lead on, Shamil, I'll try to follow. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:57 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning >> Game... >> >> >> >>> Hi Mike, >>> >>> Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) >>> should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - >>> which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then >>> we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 15:05:00 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > >> I've got it, thanks. >> I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, >> if called upon to do so! >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning >> Game... >> >> >> >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, >>> >>> I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with >>> all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: >>> >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 >>> >>> Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not >>> have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) >>> >>> In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all >>> estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation >>> numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >>> >>> The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original >>> plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. >>> Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. >>> >>> If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend >>> rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control >>> up&running. >>> >>> If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please >>> post your considerations. >>> >>> Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes >>> several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number >>> of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. >>> >>> Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they >>> will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... >>> >>> I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: >>> >>> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 16:54:45 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:54:45 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmdHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi John, When we talked originally on this project it was planned to do it in one month with every team member spending not more than one hour within a working day, which totals to 20-22 hours per member per month - approx. 100 hours for 5 team members. (Note: anybody can spend that five hours within one day within a week if they have free time or split them within two days etc. but it's important to have equal amount of total time spent every week - important for planning/predictability etc. - to calculate team velocity...) If we will not fit 100 hours max value some of the ProductBackLog items will be left undone - then ProductOwner can decide shall there be a follow-up or not - this is how SCRUM process handles ProductBackLog items based on realistic approach/assumption/real life experience that if project time frame was underestimated then there should be some ProductBackLog items left undone: SCRUM team shouldn't work extra hours (for free) etc. to get all the work done... Yes, that may sound idealistic on first glance but the more projects a team completes the more precise their estimations become, and the more trust is created between team + SCRUMMaster and ProductOwner + StakeHolders/Users - the latter know/trust that SCRUM team does their best... Somehere in the middle when it will be more clear how well we perform (or earlier or later) ProductOwner could rearrange ProductBackLog items implementation sequence to have as much as possible and the most required items done within given (left) time frame (and budget in real life case)... Maybe I'm too optimistic but I currently suppose we should make all the forms/reports in less than 100 hours... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: John W Colby To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... > Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total > value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle > that. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > > > > >> I've got it, thanks. > >> I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > >> if called upon to do so! > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning > >> Game... > >> > >> > >> > >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, > >>> > >>> I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with > >>> all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > >>> > >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > >>> > >>> Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not > >>> have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > >>> > >>> In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > >>> estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation > >>> numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > >>> > >>> The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original > >>> plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > >>> Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > >>> > >>> If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend > >>> rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > >>> up&running. > >>> > >>> If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please > >>> post your considerations. > >>> > >>> Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes > >>> several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number > >>> of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > >>> > >>> Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they > >>> will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > >>> > >>> I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > >>> > >>> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Shamil > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 17:57:05 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:57:05 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... In-Reply-To: References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49C2CDC1.3060209@gmail.com> Understood. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John, > > When we talked originally on this project it was planned to do it in one month with every team member spending not more than one hour within a working day, which totals to 20-22 hours per member per month - approx. 100 hours for 5 team members. (Note: anybody can spend that five hours within one day within a week if they have free time or split them within two days etc. but it's important to have equal amount of total time spent every week - important for planning/predictability etc. - to calculate team velocity...) > > If we will not fit 100 hours max value some of the ProductBackLog items will be left undone - then ProductOwner can decide shall there be a follow-up or not - this is how SCRUM process handles ProductBackLog items based on realistic approach/assumption/real life experience that if project time frame was underestimated then there should be some ProductBackLog items left undone: SCRUM team shouldn't work extra hours (for free) etc. to get all the work done... > > Yes, that may sound idealistic on first glance but the more projects a team completes the more precise their estimations become, and the more trust is created between team + SCRUMMaster and ProductOwner + StakeHolders/Users - the latter know/trust that SCRUM team does their best... > > Somehere in the middle when it will be more clear how well we perform (or earlier or later) ProductOwner could rearrange ProductBackLog items implementation sequence to have as much as possible and the most required items done within given (left) time frame (and budget in real life case)... > > Maybe I'm too optimistic but I currently suppose we should make all the forms/reports in less than 100 hours... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W Colby > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... > > >> Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total >> value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle >> that. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> > From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 19 21:01:47 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:01:47 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Has it been decided to move this back to AccessD? I have seen a lot of traffic on this subject on that list. I need to filter these messages to a specific folder so I don't loose them. When there is a lot of traffic on the D list I tend to group and do bulk deletes on items. Doug From marklbreen at gmail.com Fri Mar 20 04:41:31 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:41:31 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... In-Reply-To: References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Shamil, I have one or two questions on scrum techniques. In the estimates, the product owner has to make some judgement calls on which items to drop, and which items to include. Or let me phrase that better, the product owner has to prioritise his importance of the items, in the hope that he receives all, but if he does not, then he must decide which items to exclude. Background of question first My personal instinct, and the behavior of most people I know will be to seek some additional information from the 'supplier' as to why feature a takes one hour and feature b takes 5 hours. I would expect that most people would assume that this background information assists them in their decision process, as they are making it from a position of knowledge. Also, as a product owner in this case, I imagine that there is a certain element of risk / gambling on the product owners behalf, i.e. do I place this feature (a 5 hour estimate) at the top of the list, and guarantee its delivery, or do I drop it down the list, and guarantee five other (1 hour) features. My instinct at this point is that most people will desire a little background on the justifications for why one item is one hour and one item is five hours. Now the question to our ScrumMaster In this new world, is the above appropriate thinking on behalf of the product owner. Do I / should I re-program my brain to accept blindly the estimates and focus only on what is important as a delivered feature and NOT on why feature A takes five times the time to produce feature B. If I take this blind leap of faith, will I eventually produce more accurate views on what is important to my business? i.e. should the product owner keep their nose out of the programmers area and stick to being product owner. Question 2 In a larger project than this one, but even in this small project there are synergies, IOW, the work to produce the suppliers form, may be identical to the work to produce the categories form. Should the product owner know there there is some virtual grouping here? Or once again, should he keep his dirty nose out of these types of concepts. I think you answer will be yes, he should keep his nose out and leave that to the scrum team. Question 3 When are we ready for me to prioritise the list 2009/3/19 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi John, > > When we talked originally on this project it was planned to do it in one > month with every team member spending not more than one hour within a > working day, which totals to 20-22 hours per member per month - approx. 100 > hours for 5 team members. (Note: anybody can spend that five hours within > one day within a week if they have free time or split them within two days > etc. but it's important to have equal amount of total time spent every week > - important for planning/predictability etc. - to calculate team > velocity...) > > If we will not fit 100 hours max value some of the ProductBackLog items > will be left undone - then ProductOwner can decide shall there be a > follow-up or not - this is how SCRUM process handles ProductBackLog items > based on realistic approach/assumption/real life experience that if project > time frame was underestimated then there should be some ProductBackLog items > left undone: SCRUM team shouldn't work extra hours (for free) etc. to get > all the work done... > > Yes, that may sound idealistic on first glance but the more projects a team > completes the more precise their estimations become, and the more trust is > created between team + SCRUMMaster and ProductOwner + StakeHolders/Users - > the latter know/trust that SCRUM team does their best... > > Somehere in the middle when it will be more clear how well we perform (or > earlier or later) ProductOwner could rearrange ProductBackLog items > implementation sequence to have as much as possible and the most required > items done within given (left) time frame (and budget in real life case)... > > Maybe I'm too optimistic but I currently suppose we should make all the > forms/reports in less than 100 hours... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W Colby > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product > BackLogPlanningGame... > > > Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total > > value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle > > that. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) > should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - > which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we > will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning > Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product > BackLogPlanning Game... > > > > > > > > >> I've got it, thanks. > > >> I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > > >> if called upon to do so! > > >> > > >> - > > >> Michael R Mattys > > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > >> - > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > > >> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product > BackLogPlanning > > >> Game... > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, > > >>> > > >>> I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook > with > > >>> all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > >>> > > >>> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > >>> > > >>> Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do > not > > >>> have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > >>> > > >>> In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > > >>> estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM > evaluation > > >>> numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > >>> > > >>> The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our > original > > >>> plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > > >>> Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > >>> > > >>> If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and > spend > > >>> rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > > >>> up&running. > > >>> > > >>> If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - > please > > >>> post your considerations. > > >>> > > >>> Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually > takes > > >>> several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total > number > > >>> of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > >>> > > >>> Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever > they > > >>> will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > >>> > > >>> I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > >>> > > >>> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > >>> > > >>> Thank you. > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Shamil > > >>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 20 10:14:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:14:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNDUlVNOiBOb3J0aHdpbmQgLk5FVCBQ?= =?koi8-r?b?cm9kdWN0IEJhY2tMb2dQbGFubmluZ0dhbWUuLi4=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark and SCRUM Team Members, Thank you for your questions Mark. Here are my answers: Question 1: Yes. Question 2: Yes :) Question 3: I think we're ready now - please use http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip to split ProductBackLog into 3 SCRUM Sprints: 1st: 43 "evaluation points" long (2 weeks) 2nd: 22 "evaluation points" long (1 week) 2nd: 22 "evaluation points" long (1 week) (in reality that Sprint planning is more through procedure but let's try to make it light here this time and see how it will work) Please feel free to skip the following lengthy explanations and maybe just read the referenced in P.S. SCRUM methodology stuff. According to my current understanding of SCRUM practices ProductOwner can't communicate directly with team on issues why this or that ProductBackLog position "weights" this or that much. I'm giving references on the SCRUM methodologies' entries below for you and our SCRUM team members to check my understanding. Please read them (they are in total words not much longer than your e-mail), and I think then you will be able to answer your questions by yourself. If not, please ask them again or ask the new ones if needed - and we will try to come to the common ground - SCRUM isn't a "new religion" but a constantly improving methodologies/practice of agile software development... I must say I was not very strictly following SCRUM methodology proposing to the team members to evaluate ProductBackLog items in "ideal hours" - "ideal hour" term is from XP/agile but in SCRUM ProductBackLog items are estimated using abstract "measuring units": one can use "kilograms", another one "pounds", third one "liters" etc. I asked to use "ideal hours" to just "get it(estimation) done" as quick as possible because everybody usually estimate possible workload in time measuring units: hours, days, months... We need something for starters - later on when we will have some statistics on our performance (SCRUM team velocity) we will be able to estimate using more abstract "estimation points"... If everybody interested I can "open my secret" how I did estimate our project BackLogItems - I can say now that this estimation wasn't using directly time related measurement units IOW it could have been wrong in many positions: as you can see my estimation was rather close to Mike's one and is about 20% lower than average we plan to use (as everybody agreed?) as our max time frame. I just wanted to tell that if we estimate now that FormA "weights" 3 "ideal hours" or "kilograms" and FormB "weights" 1 "ideal hour" or "kilogram" then when they will be implemented it may happen that it was spent 1 real hour (or half an hour) to develop FormA and 3 (or 3.5) "real hours" (or "kilograms" of bananas eaten while developing this form?) but they were *done* within one SCRUM sprint, and this means (if nothing else was done) that SCCUM team velocity is 4 ProductBackLog "points" per SCRUM sprint (SCRUM sprint usually takes 1 to 4 weeks). Using that statistics we can plan the next SCRUM sprint (usually statistics for the last 5-8 Sprints are used during next Sprint planning, or statistics of the less "speedy" Sprint, most "speedy" Sprint and one from the "middle speed" for the last 5-8 Sprints... Am I clear enough about this SCRUM evaluation and Sprints planning? If not please ask more questions and I will try to answer them by myself and by giving some more references to read. I must say this is the first time I'm explaining/trying to explain that subject here - IOW we all are learning by doing here now. I have seen how it works in practice but that weren't software projects we used to implement during CSM course. But my SCRUM Trainer used similar SCRUM practices with SCRUM Teams in BusinessWeek and Yahoo and they worked well for them... I'd also propose for us to have 3 SCRUM Sprints during the coming month: 1. 2 weeks long 2. 1 week long 3. 1 week long And I'd suppose/expect that first 2 weeks long SCRUM Sprint should be considered a success if we will make as many "evaluation points" during it as we will do during the shorter 2nd and 3rd one... When you will read the referenced below short articles on SCRUM Sprint planning you will find that ProductOwner communicates with the team while getting to be developed items into next Sprint area/plan and asking team can it be done within that Sprint or not - team can agree/commit to do it or can reject but ProductOwner can't "push" on team and ask why they think they can't do that item if it "weights" say X "ideal hours" and there is still a room in the next Sprint for that item to be done. Here is where SCRUMMaster should take his facilitating role/position to negotiate such ProductBackLog positions with team but without the presence of ProductOwner... All in all ProductOwner does and should communicate very closely with the SCRUM team and he/she has the whole picture of the project progress as in real life case team velocity is measured and published every day based on completed (DONE) Sprint items. But ProductOwner is "forbidden" to push the team, to ask "provocative" questions, to change Sprint items during the started Sprint etc. - this is how I understand these SCRUM practices... I should also note that in real life ProductBackLog items are also getting split into tasks during Sprint planning phase - we're not doing that split now because of our distributed in time mainly offline way of working, and because most of ProductBackLog items beeing rather clear to everybody... And I should also note/underline that SCRUM team velocity is measured only using "Done" (accepted) ProductBackLog positions - if a position is 99.99% "done" it isn't used in calculating SCRUM Team velocity... Mark, knowing your ability to summarize very well I expect you will come here at dba-VB with several sentences summarizing what I have written above and what I have referenced below, and answering very shortly your own questions. Please if you do not have any more questions to discuss put the first set of items from this ProductBackLog (http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip ) into first 2 weeks long Sprint. This Sprint is expected to "weight" max 5*5*2 = 50 "evaluation unit points". Please leave some free room in it - let's say 10%. Please note that if the SCRUM team will manage to do 50 points within the first week or first week and the half then this is OK to add more ProductBackLog items to be done (or started) within the first Sprint. But the more probable result will be we will not fit the first SCRUM sprint ProductBackLog - no problem if that will even be half of the backlog not done as this usually happens with new teams. The problem/issue will be when we will not manage to make all ProductBackLog implemented during the whole month long project within three Sprints. Well, I'm wiring "problem" but let's keep it easy here as this is more fun than real work what we're doing here - a SCRUM Club as dba-VB where we all are learning the new things, which are supposed to work well in real life projects we're doing for money+. I'd also propose to measure our team "daily velocity" using every week results as every week should take 5 hours of work of every team member - let's call these 5 hours "a working day"+ If we will be "equally speedy" during all the four weeks then our team velocity will be 87/4 = ~22 "evaluation points per working day" , and we can use these stats while planning other projects, and you as the ProductOwner will know that all is "transparent and clear here" - and SCRUM team is doing their best+ Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Scrum Effort Estimation and Story Points http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-effort-estimation-and-story-points/ "In the Sprint Planning Meeting, the team sits down to estimate its effort for the stories in the backlog. The Product Owner needs these estimates, so that he or she is empowered to effectively prioritize items in the backlog and, as a result, forecast releases based on velocity the team's velocity. This means the Product Owner needs an honest appraisal of how difficult work will be. Thus it is recommended that the Product Owner does not observe the estimation process to avoid pressuring (intentionally or otherwise) a team to reduce its effort estimates and take on more work. Even when the team estimates amongst itself, actions should be taken to reduce influencing how a team estimates. As such, it is recommended that all team members disclose their estimates simultaneously." SCRUM Meetings http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-meetings/ "At this point, the Product Owner is typically asked to leave while the team decomposes the sprint backlog items into tasks. While the Product Owner is asked to leave so that the team can candidly discuss the work, he or she is still expected to be "on call" to answer questions, clarify acceptance criteria, or renegotiate. This meeting, which was previously called the sprint definition meeting, is also time-boxed to four hours to limit all sprint planning activities to a single day's time." SCRUM Impediment http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-impediments/ SCRUM Product Owner http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-product-owner/ The ScrumMaster Role http://scrummethodology.com/the-scrummaster-role/ -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:41:31 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... > Hello Shamil, > I have one or two questions on scrum techniques. > > In the estimates, the product owner has to make some judgement calls on > which items to drop, and which items to include. Or let me phrase that > better, the product owner has to prioritise his importance of the items, in > the hope that he receives all, but if he does not, then he must decide which > items to exclude. > > Background of question first > My personal instinct, and the behavior of most people I know will be to seek > some additional information from the 'supplier' as to why feature a takes > one hour and feature b takes 5 hours. I would expect that most people > would assume that this background information assists them in their decision > process, as they are making it from a position of knowledge. Also, as a > product owner in this case, I imagine that there is a certain element of > risk / gambling on the product owners behalf, i.e. do I place this feature > (a 5 hour estimate) at the top of the list, and guarantee its delivery, or > do I drop it down the list, and guarantee five other (1 hour) features. My > instinct at this point is that most people will desire a little background > on the justifications for why one item is one hour and one item is five > hours. > > > Now the question to our ScrumMaster > In this new world, is the above appropriate thinking on behalf of the > product owner. Do I / should I re-program my brain to accept blindly the > estimates and focus only on what is important as a delivered feature and NOT > on why feature A takes five times the time to produce feature B. If I take > this blind leap of faith, will I eventually produce more accurate views on > what is important to my business? i.e. should the product owner keep their > nose out of the programmers area and stick to being product owner. > > > Question 2 > In a larger project than this one, but even in this small project there are > synergies, IOW, the work to produce the suppliers form, may be identical to > the work to produce the categories form. Should the product owner know > there there is some virtual grouping here? Or once again, should he keep > his dirty nose out of these types of concepts. I think you answer will be > yes, he should keep his nose out and leave that to the scrum team. > > Question 3 > When are we ready for me to prioritise the list > > > > > < snip> From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 20 10:17:18 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:17:18 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmUgU0NSVU0gUHJvamVjdCBCYWNrbG9n?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Doug, No, we're keeping SCRUM related discussion in dba-Vb with "SCRUM" keyword in the subject line to tune e-mail filtering to a special mailbox on our mail clients... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Doug Murphy" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:01:47 -0700 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > > Has it been decided to move this back to AccessD? I have seen a lot of > traffic on this subject on that list. I need to filter these messages to a > specific folder so I don't loose them. When there is a lot of traffic on the > D list I tend to group and do bulk deletes on items. > > Doug > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 20 11:07:52 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:07:52 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET ProductBackLogPlanningGame... References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mark, I hadn't looked into the nature of your role. Thanks for asking these weighty questions, the more the better. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Breen" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 5:41 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET ProductBackLogPlanningGame... > Hello Shamil, > I have one or two questions on scrum techniques. > > In the estimates, the product owner has to make some judgement calls on > which items to drop, and which items to include. Or let me phrase that > better, the product owner has to prioritise his importance of the items, > in > the hope that he receives all, but if he does not, then he must decide > which > items to exclude. > > Background of question first > My personal instinct, and the behavior of most people I know will be to > seek > some additional information from the 'supplier' as to why feature a takes > one hour and feature b takes 5 hours. I would expect that most people > would assume that this background information assists them in their > decision > process, as they are making it from a position of knowledge. Also, as a > product owner in this case, I imagine that there is a certain element of > risk / gambling on the product owners behalf, i.e. do I place this feature > (a 5 hour estimate) at the top of the list, and guarantee its delivery, or > do I drop it down the list, and guarantee five other (1 hour) features. > My > instinct at this point is that most people will desire a little background > on the justifications for why one item is one hour and one item is five > hours. > > > Now the question to our ScrumMaster > In this new world, is the above appropriate thinking on behalf of the > product owner. Do I / should I re-program my brain to accept blindly the > estimates and focus only on what is important as a delivered feature and > NOT > on why feature A takes five times the time to produce feature B. If I > take > this blind leap of faith, will I eventually produce more accurate views on > what is important to my business? i.e. should the product owner keep > their > nose out of the programmers area and stick to being product owner. > > > Question 2 > In a larger project than this one, but even in this small project there > are > synergies, IOW, the work to produce the suppliers form, may be identical > to > the work to produce the categories form. Should the product owner know > there there is some virtual grouping here? Or once again, should he keep > his dirty nose out of these types of concepts. I think you answer will be > yes, he should keep his nose out and leave that to the scrum team. > > Question 3 > When are we ready for me to prioritise the list From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 23 13:49:19 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and All, Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to start with. I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the files from there. I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the source files there, and then see how it will work with check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and then publish the new solution with all updates.) Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the coming months. To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do you need some more input from us to make this To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess (http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process tracing/management tool+ Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive Documents NorthWind.NET DataBase NorthwindNET.mdf NorthwindNET_log.ldf NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip 2. NET Winforms solution to start with MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive Documents NorthWind.NET Conversion Project Northwind.NET_20090323.zip From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 23 13:54:47 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line wraps): 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database NorthwindNET.mdf NorthwindNET_log.ldf NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip 2. NET Winforms solution to start with https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project Northwind.NET_20090323.zip -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to start with. > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the files from there. > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the source files there, and then see how it will work with check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the coming months. > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do you need some more input from us to make this > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess (http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process tracing/management tool+ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > MS Live dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > DataBase > NorthwindNET.mdf > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > MS Live dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 23 15:14:34 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:14:34 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: - Tortoise SVN http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ Everything worked smoothly. Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within Visual Studio. Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line wraps): > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > NorthwindNET.mdf > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to start with. > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the files from there. > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the source files there, and then see how it will work with check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the coming months. > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do you need some more input from us to make this > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess (http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process tracing/management tool+ > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > SkyDrive > > Documents > > NorthWind.NET > > DataBase > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > SkyDrive > > Documents > > NorthWind.NET > > Conversion Project > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 23 15:19:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:19:58 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project References: Message-ID: <09982C6AF9724D808153FC94C44D53E6@Mattys> Hi Shamil, Thanks! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > wraps): From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon Mar 23 18:02:22 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:02:22 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Group, I have updated the Excel sheet that contains the estimates to include the product owners choices. Based on my selections, you appears to need 39 units of work out of the total 87 units for work estimated. I hope that I understand this all correctly and that I have made appropriate selections. I tried to select simple forms initially, but as Shamil has suggested that we do approx 40 units in the first week, I had to include almost all the forms. I do hope that is OK. To pad the numbers, I include a few reports also, again, I hope that it is OK that I have given so much work in the first phase. Shamil, if I have something wrong here, please let me know, so that I can update / correct my selections. In our source code repository, I have created a new folder named documents, and placed the newest file in there. I hope it will download for you all. Let me know if you cannot connect to it. For those that are observing the project from a distance, I have uploaded the spreadsheet here also to the skydrive account. If anyone wants to email me, I can also directly forward them the doc. https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1 FYI, when I click my folder here on my laptop and right clicked and selected SVN Update, I immediately got the latest files from Shamil including all source code. When you do the same, you will get his files and also my new version of the excel doc. Not only that, but we can all see that we are now on version 8 of the source code, I did the first few, and it looks like Shamil did about five updates today, I hope this logging is useful to the team. Any questions, just ask. Shamil, if I am not behaving as ideal product owner, please steer me in the right direction. thanks all, Mark 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > - Tortoise SVN > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > Everything worked smoothly. > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > Visual Studio. > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > wraps): > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: dba-VB > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > start with. > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > files from there. > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > source files there, and then see how it will work with > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > coming months. > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > DataBase > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > Conversion Project > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon Mar 23 18:16:19 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:16:19 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Scrum Team, I will just add here additional comment. As you can see, Shamil has highlighted that you can purchase a Visual Studio integrated tool for subversion. but let me just note that you do not need to use this integrated tool. You can get started with what we have here, for free, if you enjoy working with the source code control, then you can always spend money to make it even more streamlined, but until you try out the concept, you do not need to spend anything. Just my short note. Remember, with SCCS (Source Code Control Software), you can always retreive a revision from six revisions ago, imagine being able to go back and get the code you had last sat between 16:00 and 18:00. One final note, just in case the obvious is not so obvious, you can also use SCCS to store recipies for cookies, or your latest business plan, or the packing list for the holidays, or you entire my documents directory. IOW, SCCS, does not have to be just a programmers tool. But please do not upload you entire my docs to this server :) thanks Mark 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > - Tortoise SVN > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > Everything worked smoothly. > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > Visual Studio. > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > wraps): > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: dba-VB > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > start with. > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > files from there. > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > source files there, and then see how it will work with > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > coming months. > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > DataBase > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > Conversion Project > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 04:51:49 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:51:49 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark and SCRUM team, I just noted that I used Visual SVN trial version because I liked it. I will probably purchase it, not sure yet but it definitely saves some time comparing to command line/Tortoise SVN. But I'm probably currently, while establishing development infrastrcuture, committing new sources too often - if committing them one time a day then command line/Torsoise SVN should be good enough. BTW, AFAIK commiting via command line can be automated using windows batch files IOW it can be "one-click" activity. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:16:19 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hello Scrum Team, > > I will just add here additional comment. As you can see, Shamil has > highlighted that you can purchase a Visual Studio integrated tool for > subversion. but let me just note that you do not need to use this > integrated tool. > You can get started with what we have here, for free, if you enjoy working > with the source code control, then you can always spend money to make it > even more streamlined, but until you try out the concept, you do not need to > spend anything. > > Just my short note. > > Remember, with SCCS (Source Code Control Software), you can always retreive > a revision from six revisions ago, imagine being able to go back and get the > code you had last sat between 16:00 and 18:00. > > One final note, just in case the obvious is not so obvious, you can also use > SCCS to store recipies for cookies, or your latest business plan, or the > packing list for the holidays, or you entire my documents directory. IOW, > SCCS, does not have to be just a programmers tool. But please do not upload > you entire my docs to this server :) > > thanks > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > > > - Tortoise SVN > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > > > Everything worked smoothly. > > > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > > Visual Studio. > > > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > > wraps): > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > To: dba-VB > > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > > start with. > > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > > files from there. > > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > > source files there, and then see how it will work with > > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > > coming months. > > > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > DataBase > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > Conversion Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 05:16:36 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:16:36 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. <<< if I am not behaving as ideal product owner >>> We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. :) Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely 'DONE'. I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: - customers 2 - products 3 - suppliers 2 ----------------------- - employees 3 - orders 3 with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - and then we will be OK with our progress... Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: ===================================================== Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== it it's fixed now by adding: GC.Collect(); System.Environment.Exit(0); to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:02:22 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hello Group, > I have updated the Excel sheet that contains the estimates to include the > product owners choices. Based on my selections, you appears to need 39 > units of work out of the total 87 units for work estimated. I hope that I > understand this all correctly and that I have made appropriate selections. > > I tried to select simple forms initially, but as Shamil has suggested that > we do approx 40 units in the first week, I had to include almost all the > forms. I do hope that is OK. To pad the numbers, I include a few reports > also, again, I hope that it is OK that I have given so much work in the > first phase. > > Shamil, if I have something wrong here, please let me know, so that I can > update / correct my selections. > > In our source code repository, I have created a new folder named documents, > and placed the newest file in there. I hope it will download for you all. > Let me know if you cannot connect to it. > > For those that are observing the project from a distance, I have uploaded > the spreadsheet here also to the skydrive account. If anyone wants to email > me, I can also directly forward them the doc. > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1 > > > FYI, when I click my folder here on my laptop and right clicked and selected > SVN Update, I immediately got the latest files from Shamil including all > source code. When you do the same, you will get his files and also my new > version of the excel doc. Not only that, but we can all see that we are now > on version 8 of the source code, I did the first few, and it looks like > Shamil did about five updates today, I hope this logging is useful to the > team. > > Any questions, just ask. Shamil, if I am not behaving as ideal product > owner, please steer me in the right direction. > > thanks all, > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > > > - Tortoise SVN > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > > > Everything worked smoothly. > > > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > > Visual Studio. > > > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > > wraps): > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > To: dba-VB > > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > > start with. > > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > > files from there. > > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > > source files there, and then see how it will work with > > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > > coming months. > > > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > DataBase > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > Conversion Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 24 05:31:12 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:31:12 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project Message-ID: Hi Shamil > (OK Gustav?) That is OK. Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine today. Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-03-2009 11:16 >>> Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. <<< if I am not behaving as ideal product owner >>> We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. :) Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely 'DONE'. I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: - customers 2 - products 3 - suppliers 2 ----------------------- - employees 3 - orders 3 with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - and then we will be OK with our progress... Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: ===================================================== Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== it it's fixed now by adding: GC.Collect(); System.Environment.Exit(0); to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 05:50:21 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:50:21 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Gustav. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:31:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hi Shamil > > > (OK Gustav?) > That is OK. > > Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine today. > Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-03-2009 11:16 >>> > Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, > > Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. > > <<< > if I am not behaving as ideal product owner > >>> > We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. :) > > Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: > > dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project > > Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely 'DONE'. > > I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: > > - customers 2 > - products 3 > - suppliers 2 > ----------------------- > - employees 3 > - orders 3 > > with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - and then we will be OK with our progress... > > Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. > > If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: > > ===================================================== > Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings > C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. > Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. > ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== > > it it's fixed now by adding: > > GC.Collect(); > System.Environment.Exit(0); > > to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marklbreen at gmail.com Tue Mar 24 05:54:03 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:54:03 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello All, >Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. As always in my live, I feel guilty for not being detailed / thorough enough. Does anyone here in this list ever feel that they contribute enough to their customer / family / supplier / community / mailing list of choice. I certainly never feel I do. Gustav, If I understand your email below correctly, you have successfully installed a SVN server and are able to use is with a client to check in and out code locally for yourself. If this is what you did, then you did it the same as me, then I just created a second server on a machine that is currently in a data centre with a good connection. Glad to here is went well for you, I have to admit that I spent not much more than 60 minutes on this SCCS stuff. But I also have to admint that I find is appealing - not sure why. Mark 2009/3/24 Gustav Brock > Hi Shamil > > > (OK Gustav?) > That is OK. > > Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to > set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine > today. > Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-03-2009 11:16 >>> > Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, > > Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. > > <<< > if I am not behaving as ideal product owner > >>> > We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And > you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. > :) > > Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, > SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for > this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time > to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting > their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any > questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current > version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and > also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: > > dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project > > Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - > just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' > status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely > 'DONE'. > > I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: > > - customers 2 > - products 3 > - suppliers 2 > ----------------------- > - employees 3 > - orders 3 > > with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best > candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the > last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be > developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this > week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - > and then we will be OK with our progress... > > Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents > subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the > root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. > > If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the > following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: > > ===================================================== > Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings > C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): > error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to > "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file > '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. > Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. > ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== > > it it's fixed now by adding: > > GC.Collect(); > System.Environment.Exit(0); > > to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 06:01:27 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:01:27 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team, Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - this is just a plan: DONE - 2 - Categories TODO - 2 - Customer Orders TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 TODO - 2 - Customers TODO - 3 - Employees DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard TODO - 3 - Orders TODO - 1 - Orders Subform DONE - 1 - Product List TODO - 2 - Products TODO - 1 - StartUp TODO - 2 - Suppliers ========================== TOTAL: 23 I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: - customers 2 - products 3 - suppliers 2 ----------------------- - employees 3 - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? Then I will do another one.) Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get selected to develop. Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 24 06:21:45 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:21:45 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project Message-ID: Hi Mark No server at me. I installed the Tortoise SVN client and connected successfully to the server you so kindly have provided using the credentials you posted. Then I synced and received a bunch of folders (for SVN I guess) and one readme file, but no project files - will have to look into that later. I also installed the trial of the visual client for VS, and if that works well I plan to spend the few bucks for it and install my own SVN server. /gustav >>> marklbreen at gmail.com 24-03-2009 11:54 >>> Hello All, >Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. As always in my live, I feel guilty for not being detailed / thorough enough. Does anyone here in this list ever feel that they contribute enough to their customer / family / supplier / community / mailing list of choice. I certainly never feel I do. Gustav, If I understand your email below correctly, you have successfully installed a SVN server and are able to use is with a client to check in and out code locally for yourself. If this is what you did, then you did it the same as me, then I just created a second server on a machine that is currently in a data centre with a good connection. Glad to here is went well for you, I have to admit that I spent not much more than 60 minutes on this SCCS stuff. But I also have to admint that I find is appealing - not sure why. Mark 2009/3/24 Gustav Brock > Hi Shamil > > > (OK Gustav?) > That is OK. > > Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to > set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine > today. > Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. > > /gustav From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 24 10:34:26 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: Message-ID: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more straight-forward maybe) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > Hi SCRUM Team, > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - > this is just a plan: > > DONE - 2 - Categories > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > TODO - 2 - Customers > TODO - 3 - Employees > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > TODO - 3 - Orders > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > DONE - 1 - Product List > TODO - 2 - Products > TODO - 1 - StartUp > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > ========================== > TOTAL: 23 > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start working > on the following forms first of all: > > - customers 2 > - products 3 > - suppliers 2 > ----------------------- > - employees 3 > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav you > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? > Then I will do another one.) > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted todo - > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just get > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get > selected to develop. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 12:16:29 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 20:16:29 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike and SCRUM team, Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. The three forms: - products; - suppliers and - customers are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. We with Gustav will develop - employees and - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms using our sample solution. I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > straight-forward maybe) > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - > > this is just a plan: > > > > DONE - 2 - Categories > > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > > TODO - 2 - Customers > > TODO - 3 - Employees > > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > > TODO - 3 - Orders > > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > > DONE - 1 - Product List > > TODO - 2 - Products > > TODO - 1 - StartUp > > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > > ========================== > > TOTAL: 23 > > > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start working > > on the following forms first of all: > > > > - customers 2 > > - products 3 > > - suppliers 2 > > ----------------------- > > - employees 3 > > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav you > > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? > > Then I will do another one.) > > > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted todo - > > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one > > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just get > > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do > > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get > > selected to develop. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 24 12:39:39 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:39:39 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> Message-ID: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> OK, Shamil. I choose Suppliers. I was reading/trying to follow Walkthrough: Displaying Data on a Form in a Windows Application A little lost on adding TableAdapters, but learning. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > The three forms: > > - products; > - suppliers and > - customers > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > We with Gustav will develop > > - employees and > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one > of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > using our sample solution. > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more >> straight-forward maybe) >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> > >> > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - >> > this is just a plan: >> > >> > DONE - 2 - Categories >> > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 >> > TODO - 2 - Customers >> > TODO - 3 - Employees >> > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard >> > TODO - 3 - Orders >> > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform >> > DONE - 1 - Product List >> > TODO - 2 - Products >> > TODO - 1 - StartUp >> > TODO - 2 - Suppliers >> > ========================== >> > TOTAL: 23 >> > >> > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start >> > working >> > on the following forms first of all: >> > >> > - customers 2 >> > - products 3 >> > - suppliers 2 >> > ----------------------- >> > - employees 3 >> > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) >> > >> > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav >> > you >> > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which >> > one? >> > Then I will do another one.) >> > >> > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them >> > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted >> > todo - >> > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one >> > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just >> > get >> > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do >> > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get >> > selected to develop. >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue Mar 24 14:40:11 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:40:11 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan In-Reply-To: References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> Message-ID: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but want to try and keep up with you guys. Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. Doug -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM To: dba-VB Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan Hi Mike and SCRUM team, Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. The three forms: - products; - suppliers and - customers are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. We with Gustav will develop - employees and - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms using our sample solution. I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > straight-forward maybe) > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be > > fulfilled) - this is just a plan: > > > > DONE - 2 - Categories > > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > > TODO - 2 - Customers > > TODO - 3 - Employees > > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > > TODO - 3 - Orders > > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > > DONE - 1 - Product List > > TODO - 2 - Products > > TODO - 1 - StartUp > > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > > ========================== > > TOTAL: 23 > > > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > > working on the following forms first of all: > > > > - customers 2 > > - products 3 > > - suppliers 2 > > ----------------------- > > - employees 3 > > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav > > (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? > > Then I will do another one.) > > > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > > todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, > > second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last > > one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the > > same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the > > form name you will get selected to develop. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 24 14:48:17 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:48:17 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan In-Reply-To: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> Message-ID: <49C93901.2030204@colbyconsulting.com> I guess I am taking customers? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Doug Murphy wrote: > OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but > want to try and keep up with you guys. > > Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM > To: dba-VB > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > The three forms: > > - products; > - suppliers and > - customers > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > We with Gustav will develop > > - employees and > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of > the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > using our sample solution. > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more >> straight-forward maybe) >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >>> Hi SCRUM Team, >>> >>> Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be >>> fulfilled) - this is just a plan: >>> >>> DONE - 2 - Categories >>> TODO - 2 - Customer Orders >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 >>> TODO - 2 - Customers >>> TODO - 3 - Employees >>> DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard >>> TODO - 3 - Orders >>> TODO - 1 - Orders Subform >>> DONE - 1 - Product List >>> TODO - 2 - Products >>> TODO - 1 - StartUp >>> TODO - 2 - Suppliers >>> ========================== >>> TOTAL: 23 >>> >>> I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start >>> working on the following forms first of all: >>> >>> - customers 2 >>> - products 3 >>> - suppliers 2 >>> ----------------------- >>> - employees 3 >>> - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) >>> >>> with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav >>> (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you > - which one? >>> Then I will do another one.) >>> >>> Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them >>> developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted >>> todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, >>> second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last >>> one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the >>> same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the >>> form name you will get selected to develop. >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-VB mailing list >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 24 15:08:22 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:08:22 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM - Source code control Message-ID: <49C93DB6.6050701@colbyconsulting.com> Mark sent an email about his setting up a source code server but I cannot for the life of me find it. It told where to go to download the SCC software, how to connect to the server instance etc. If someone could please forward that to me with SCRUM - SCC in the subject that would be great. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:32:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:32:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gLSBTb3VyY2UgY29kZSBjb250cm9s?= In-Reply-To: <49C93DB6.6050701@colbyconsulting.com> References: <49C93DB6.6050701@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John, Forwarded. On MS Live dba-vb group Favorites there are links for Tortoise SVN and Visual SVN. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: VBA Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:08:22 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM - Source code control > Mark sent an email about his setting up a source code server but I cannot for the life of me find > it. It told where to go to download the SCC software, how to connect to the server instance etc. > If someone could please forward that to me with SCRUM - SCC in the subject that would be great. > > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:34:40 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:34:40 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <49C93901.2030204@colbyconsulting.com> References: <49C93901.2030204@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Yes, John, Mike selected Suppliers form, Doug selected Products form and you have got Customers form Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:48:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > I guess I am taking customers? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Doug Murphy wrote: > > OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but > > want to try and keep up with you guys. > > > > Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. > > > > Doug > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > > Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM > > To: dba-VB > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > > The three forms: > > > > - products; > > - suppliers and > > - customers > > > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > > > We with Gustav will develop > > > > - employees and > > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of > > the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > > using our sample solution. > > > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > >> straight-forward maybe) > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "dba-VB" > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> > >> > >>> Hi SCRUM Team, > >>> > >>> Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be > >>> fulfilled) - this is just a plan: > >>> > >>> DONE - 2 - Categories > >>> TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > >>> TODO - 2 - Customers > >>> TODO - 3 - Employees > >>> DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > >>> TODO - 3 - Orders > >>> TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > >>> DONE - 1 - Product List > >>> TODO - 2 - Products > >>> TODO - 1 - StartUp > >>> TODO - 2 - Suppliers > >>> ========================== > >>> TOTAL: 23 > >>> > >>> I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > >>> working on the following forms first of all: > >>> > >>> - customers 2 > >>> - products 3 > >>> - suppliers 2 > >>> ----------------------- > >>> - employees 3 > >>> - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > >>> > >>> with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav > >>> (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you > > - which one? > >>> Then I will do another one.) > >>> > >>> Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > >>> developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > >>> todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, > >>> second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last > >>> one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the > >>> same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the > >>> form name you will get selected to develop. > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Shamil > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> dba-VB mailing list > >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>> > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:35:23 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:35:23 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> References: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> Message-ID: OK, Doug. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Doug Murphy" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:40:11 -0700 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but > want to try and keep up with you guys. > > Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM > To: dba-VB > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > The three forms: > > - products; > - suppliers and > - customers > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > We with Gustav will develop > > - employees and > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of > the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > using our sample solution. > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > > I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > > straight-forward maybe) > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > > To: "dba-VB" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be > > > fulfilled) - this is just a plan: > > > > > > DONE - 2 - Categories > > > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > > > TODO - 2 - Customers > > > TODO - 3 - Employees > > > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > > > TODO - 3 - Orders > > > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > > > DONE - 1 - Product List > > > TODO - 2 - Products > > > TODO - 1 - StartUp > > > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > > > ========================== > > > TOTAL: 23 > > > > > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > > > working on the following forms first of all: > > > > > > - customers 2 > > > - products 3 > > > - suppliers 2 > > > ----------------------- > > > - employees 3 > > > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > > > > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav > > > (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you > - which one? > > > Then I will do another one.) > > > > > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > > > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > > > todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, > > > second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last > > > one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the > > > same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the > > > form name you will get selected to develop. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:45:23 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:45:23 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> References: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> Message-ID: OK, Mike, In fact you do not need to do that much work to make your form because the current NorthwindNET.sln solution is prepared to make it playfully almost only by using mouse: I'm about to publish a short HowTo clip for everybofy to look at it first of all (2 minutes 10 seconds). I'm sorry I haven't published it yet but it takes much more time to make that movie clip that to develop the forms I made today. (Unfortunately I do not have Camtasia Studio or somethingv like that and I have to get screenshots and then put them into MS Movies Maker and then add some comments... The resoluton of movie frames would be not very good to save some space (this is automatic MS Movie makers feature). I also plan to publoish source screenshots with good quality. Stay tuned.. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:39:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > OK, Shamil. I choose Suppliers. > > I was reading/trying to follow > Walkthrough: Displaying Data on a Form in a Windows Application > > A little lost on adding TableAdapters, but learning. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:16 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > > The three forms: > > > > - products; > > - suppliers and > > - customers > > > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > > > We with Gustav will develop > > > > - employees and > > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one > > of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > > using our sample solution. > > > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > >> straight-forward maybe) > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "dba-VB" > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> > >> > >> > Hi SCRUM Team, > >> > > >> > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - > >> > this is just a plan: > >> > > >> > DONE - 2 - Categories > >> > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > >> > TODO - 2 - Customers > >> > TODO - 3 - Employees > >> > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > >> > TODO - 3 - Orders > >> > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > >> > DONE - 1 - Product List > >> > TODO - 2 - Products > >> > TODO - 1 - StartUp > >> > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > >> > ========================== > >> > TOTAL: 23 > >> > > >> > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > >> > working > >> > on the following forms first of all: > >> > > >> > - customers 2 > >> > - products 3 > >> > - suppliers 2 > >> > ----------------------- > >> > - employees 3 > >> > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > >> > > >> > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav > >> > you > >> > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which > >> > one? > >> > Then I will do another one.) > >> > > >> > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > >> > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > >> > todo - > >> > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one > >> > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just > >> > get > >> > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do > >> > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get > >> > selected to develop. > >> > > >> > Thank you. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Shamil > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 24 16:09:10 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:09:10 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> Message-ID: <7F1BF6F9C5244626A700BDF2021231EE@Mattys> Shamil, you did a lot of work. I did dig into things a little and changed the SQL Server connection to Path\dbo.mdf and everything worked fine. However, I don't yet comprehend the source control and wasn't sure what to do once I saved it and someone asked, "Well, where is it?" - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > OK, Mike, > > In fact you do not need to do that much work to make your form because the > current NorthwindNET.sln solution is prepared to make it playfully almost > only by using mouse: I'm about to publish a short HowTo clip for everybofy > to look at it first of all (2 minutes 10 seconds). > > I'm sorry I haven't published it yet but it takes much more time to make > that movie clip that to develop the forms I made today. (Unfortunately I > do not have Camtasia Studio or somethingv like that and I have to get > screenshots and then put them into MS Movies Maker and then add some > comments... > > The resoluton of movie frames would be not very good to save some space > (this is automatic MS Movie makers feature). I also plan to publoish > source screenshots with good quality. > > Stay tuned.. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:39:39 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> OK, Shamil. I choose Suppliers. >> >> I was reading/trying to follow >> Walkthrough: Displaying Data on a Form in a Windows Application >> >> A little lost on adding TableAdapters, but learning. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >> > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> > >> > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. >> > The three forms: >> > >> > - products; >> > - suppliers and >> > - customers >> > >> > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of >> > you. >> > >> > We with Gustav will develop >> > >> > - employees and >> > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will >> > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. >> > >> > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any >> > one >> > of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. >> > >> > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make >> > forms >> > using our sample solution. >> > >> > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: "Mike Mattys" >> > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning >> > Visual >> > Basic and related programming issues." >> > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> > >> >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed >> >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more >> >> straight-forward maybe) >> >> - >> >> Michael R Mattys >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> - >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> >> To: "dba-VB" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM >> >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> >> > >> >> > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be >> >> > fulfilled) - >> >> > this is just a plan: >> >> > >> >> > DONE - 2 - Categories >> >> > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders >> >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 >> >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 >> >> > TODO - 2 - Customers >> >> > TODO - 3 - Employees >> >> > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard >> >> > TODO - 3 - Orders >> >> > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform >> >> > DONE - 1 - Product List >> >> > TODO - 2 - Products >> >> > TODO - 1 - StartUp >> >> > TODO - 2 - Suppliers >> >> > ========================== >> >> > TOTAL: 23 >> >> > >> >> > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start >> >> > working >> >> > on the following forms first of all: >> >> > >> >> > - customers 2 >> >> > - products 3 >> >> > - suppliers 2 >> >> > ----------------------- >> >> > - employees 3 >> >> > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) >> >> > >> >> > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav >> >> > (Gustav >> >> > you >> >> > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which >> >> > one? >> >> > Then I will do another one.) >> >> > >> >> > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them >> >> > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted >> >> > todo - >> >> > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one >> >> > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will >> >> > just >> >> > get >> >> > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do >> >> > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get >> >> > selected to develop. >> >> > >> >> > Thank you. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Shamil >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > dba-VB mailing list >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 16:27:17 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:27:17 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEhvd1RvczogVmlkZW8gQ2xpcC9TY3JlZW5z?= =?koi8-r?b?aG90cyAtIEhvdyB0byBNYWtlIGEgQm91bmQgLk5FVCBXaW5Gb3Jt?= =?koi8-r?b?IHdpdGggU3ViRm9ybS4uLg==?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx the subject HowTos: 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data tables and relationships... I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good when using streaming video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - yes, it's :) Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development environment - correct? :) As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the end of the project when/if we will have some time left... Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a good day and happy .NET WinForms design! From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 24 16:57:48 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:57:48 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How about sharing with the rest of us, Shamil? I clicked the link, but didn't see anything. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:27 PM To: dba-VB Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx the subject HowTos: 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data tables and relationships... I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good when using streaming video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - yes, it's :) Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development environment - correct? :) As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the end of the project when/if we will have some time left... Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a good day and happy .NET WinForms design! _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 12:18:18 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:18:18 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. New version is uploaded to dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project and also commited to our SVN server. This version uses new view. This view SQL script is stored in: >Northwind.NET.FE >Datasets >SQL 0001_vw_CustomerOrdersProducts.sql (TODO Note: we have to decide what is the best way for us to keep our MS SQL databases in sync without that much manual work of running SQL scripts to create new SQL objects). Please run this SQL against your version of MS SQL database. FYI: trying to use as little as possible new SQL Views etc. but for this form that was the quickest solution in my opinion, and a solution not using embedded into C# code SQL. I have also created new dataset dedicated to this form - CustomerOrdersFormDataSet. Trying to do the things done first, and then (in the next version) to do them right (industry strong) - this approach usually works well in .NET - unlike VB6/VBA where usage of this approach often results in unmanagable code... Please question everything you're getting from here but please stay focused on getting converted NorthWind.NET desktop WinForm application first of all... Thank you. -- Shamil From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 14:46:41 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:46:41 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: Message-ID: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Shamil, I built everything from the video, but one thing I don't get: For some reason you are able to simply put "Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;" where I require a path to the mdf - why does that happen? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums > > http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx > > the subject HowTos: > > 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > > This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound > .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data > tables and relationships... > > I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good > when using streaming video: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic > > you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. > > I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - > yes, it's :) > > Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd > suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the > more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working > smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET > development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development > environment - correct? :) > > As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every > step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to > discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the > end of the project when/if we will have some time left... > > Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner > acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a > good day and happy .NET WinForms design! > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 15:05:59 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:05:59 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEhvd1RvczogVmlkZW8gQ2xpcC9TY3JlZW5z?= =?koi8-r?b?aG90cyAtIEhvdyB0byBNYWtlIGEgQm91bmQgLk5FVCBXaW5Gb3Jt?= =?koi8-r?b?IHdpdGggU3ViRm9ybS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Did you get .mdf database file attached to your MS SQL Server 2005(?) set of databases? What MS SQL 20065 versions do you use? - default installed with VS 2008 MS SQL 2005 Express? Do you have installed Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio Express http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=C243A5AE-4BD1-4E3D-94B8-5A0F62BF7796&displaylang=en ? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:46:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Shamil, > > I built everything from the video, but one thing I don't get: > > For some reason you are able to simply put "Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;" > where I require a path to the mdf - why does that happen? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:27 PM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a > Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > > > I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums > > > > http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx > > > > the subject HowTos: > > > > 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > > 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > > > > This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound > > .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data > > tables and relationships... > > > > I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good > > when using streaming video: > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic > > > > you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. > > > > I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - > > yes, it's :) > > > > Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd > > suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the > > more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working > > smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET > > development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development > > environment - correct? :) > > > > As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every > > step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to > > discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the > > end of the project when/if we will have some time left... > > > > Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner > > acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a > > good day and happy .NET WinForms design! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:09:28 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:09:28 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make aBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name Seems to work. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make aBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Shamil, > > I built everything from the video, but one thing I don't get: > > For some reason you are able to simply put "Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;" > where I require a path to the mdf - why does that happen? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:27 PM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a > Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > >> Hi SCRUM Team and all, >> >> I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums >> >> http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx >> >> the subject HowTos: >> >> 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm >> 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm >> >> This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound >> .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data >> tables and relationships... >> >> I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good >> when using streaming video: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic >> >> you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. >> >> I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - >> yes, it's :) >> >> Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd >> suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the >> more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working >> smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET >> development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development >> environment - correct? :) >> >> As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every >> step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to >> discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the >> end of the project when/if we will have some time left... >> >> Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner >> acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a >> good day and happy .NET WinForms design! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:13:11 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:13:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: <1D96B1D205D64E1AB81C0956DB78A302@Mattys> No, I have SQL 2005 Developer - came with VS2008 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Hi Mike, > > Did you get .mdf database file attached to your MS SQL Server 2005(?) set > of databases? > > What MS SQL 20065 versions do you use? - default installed with VS 2008 MS > SQL 2005 Express? > > Do you have installed Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio Express > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=C243A5AE-4BD1-4E3D-94B8-5A0F62BF7796&displaylang=en > > ? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:14:10 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:14:10 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: <5241B2EB10C24077B26648A319887D44@Mattys> Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table Try again. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put > ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > > Seems to work. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:30:24 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> <5241B2EB10C24077B26648A319887D44@Mattys> Message-ID: I'm stuck. Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. What should I be looking for to correct this? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > Try again. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name >> >> Seems to work. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:09:07 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:09:07 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEhvd1RvczogVmlkZW8gQ2xpcC9TY3JlZW5z?= =?koi8-r?b?aG90cyAtIEhvd3RvTWFrZWFCb3VuZCAuTkVUIFdpbkZvcm0gd2l0?= =?koi8-r?b?aCBTdWJGb3JtLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, What is exactly the message? Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on MS Live dba-vb? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > I'm stuck. > Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup > Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. > What should I be looking for to correct this? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How > toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > > Try again. > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > > >> > >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put > >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > >> > >> Seems to work. > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:13:19 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:13:19 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFRhcmdldFByb2Nlc3M=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, FYI: I have got installed TargetProcess (www.targetprocess.com) on my PC but I still can't get it running on my ASP.NET hosting web site. I have sent a request to TargetProcess support to check what is happening there. While waiting their response(it may take a day)/fixing the issue I will be using TargetProcess locally and I will be filling its db with our project information. When public version up&running I will restore its db from my local backup. Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:32:35 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:32:35 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Did you get restored databasse from backup after you've got attached .mdf db file? The .mdf db file has old version of tables with some fields' names being different: remember Gustav prposed to rename some fields? Please restore db from backup published on MS LIve dba-vb several days ago in the same SkyDrive folder, then preview should work I expect (in old [Order] table the current Order.[ID] field ws named OrderId, and the current Order.ShipperId field was named [ShipVia] Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:19:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Hi Shamil, > > Invalid Columns requires new/other fields in query? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - HowtoMakeaBound > .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Mike, > > > > What is exactly the message? > > Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on MS > > Live dba-vb? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - > > HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > >> I'm stuck. > >> Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup > >> Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. > >> What should I be looking for to correct this? > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How > >> toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > >> > >> > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > >> > Try again. > >> > - > >> > Michael R Mattys > >> > MapPoint and Database Dev > >> > www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > - > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Mike Mattys" > >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > >> > issues." > >> > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > >> > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > >> >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I > >> >> put > >> >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > >> >> > >> >> Seems to work. > >> >> > >> >> - > >> >> Michael R Mattys > >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (invcol.jpg) > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:41:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:41:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Did you get restored databasse from backup after you've got attached .mdf db file? The .mdf db file has old version of tables with some fields' names being different: remember Gustav prposed to rename some fields? Please restore db from backup published on MS LIve dba-vb several days ago in the same SkyDrive folder, then preview should work I expect (in old [Order] table the current Order.[ID] field ws named OrderId, and the current Order.ShipperId field was named [ShipVia] Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:19:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Hi Shamil, > > Invalid Columns requires new/other fields in query? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - HowtoMakeaBound > .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Mike, > > > > What is exactly the message? > > Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on MS > > Live dba-vb? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - > > HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > >> I'm stuck. > >> Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup > >> Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. > >> What should I be looking for to correct this? > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How > >> toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > >> > >> > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > >> > Try again. > >> > - > >> > Michael R Mattys > >> > MapPoint and Database Dev > >> > www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > - > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Mike Mattys" > >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > >> > issues." > >> > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > >> > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > >> >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I > >> >> put > >> >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > >> >> > >> >> Seems to work. > >> >> > >> >> - > >> >> Michael R Mattys > >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (invcol.jpg) > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 17:04:07 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:04:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> Message-ID: <9963E979FDBE437CAF5BB177ACF505F0@Mattys> Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > Hi Mike, > > Did you get restored databasse from backup after you've got attached .mdf > db file? > > The .mdf db file has old version of tables with some fields' names being > different: remember Gustav prposed to rename some fields? > > Please restore db from backup published on MS LIve dba-vb several days ago > in the same SkyDrive folder, then preview should work I expect (in old > [Order] table the current Order.[ID] field ws named OrderId, and the > current Order.ShipperId field was named [ShipVia] > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:19:41 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Invalid Columns > >> Hi Shamil, >> >> Invalid Columns requires new/other fields in query? >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - >> HowtoMakeaBound >> .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> >> >> > Mike, >> > >> > What is exactly the message? >> > Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on >> > MS >> > Live dba-vb? >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: "Mike Mattys" >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> > issues." >> > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - >> > HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> > >> >> I'm stuck. >> >> Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup >> >> Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. >> >> What should I be looking for to correct this? >> >> >> >> - >> >> Michael R Mattys >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> - >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Mike Mattys" >> >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> >> issues." >> >> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How >> >> toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> >> >> >> >> >> > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table >> >> > Try again. >> >> > - >> >> > Michael R Mattys >> >> > MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> > www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> > - >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Mike Mattys" >> >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> >> > issues." >> >> > >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM >> >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to >> >> > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and >> >> >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so >> >> >> I >> >> >> put >> >> >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name >> >> >> >> >> >> Seems to work. >> >> >> >> >> >> - >> >> >> Michael R Mattys >> >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > dba-VB mailing list >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> dba-VB mailing list >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (invcol.jpg) >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 17:11:36 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> <9963E979FDBE437CAF5BB177ACF505F0@Mattys> Message-ID: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection Trouble. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 17:36:21 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:36:21 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> Message-ID: Mike, You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace option. Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the latest one. To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll make some changes you wanted to overwrite back. The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details named NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection > Trouble. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > > > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 18:17:11 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:17:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> Message-ID: <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> I found this to help me out: SQL Services Manager http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Mike, > > You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. > > When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from > archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace > option. > > Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the latest > one. > > To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and > backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll make > some changes you wanted to overwrite back. > > > The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details > > named > > NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > >> Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection >> Trouble. >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Mattys" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning >> Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns >> >> >> > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. >> > >> > - >> > Michael R Mattys >> > MapPoint and Database Dev >> > www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 18:30:40 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:30:40 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> Message-ID: OK - database works ... rebuilding my Suppliers stuff - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns >I found this to help me out: > SQL Services Manager > http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > >> Mike, >> >> You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. >> >> When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from >> archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace >> option. >> >> Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the >> latest >> one. >> >> To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and >> backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll >> make >> some changes you wanted to overwrite back. >> >> >> The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: >> >> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details >> >> named >> >> NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 19:18:03 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:18:03 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: SVN/Tortoise References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys><4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> Message-ID: <79BB180046B245148EE99D3537407C7A@Mattys> My Suppliers form worked and I 'uploaded' it. Program.cs was out of date, so the merge failed It said try Update, so I did - that failed, too. I think I like this anyway ... :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > OK - database works ... rebuilding my Suppliers stuff > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > >>I found this to help me out: >> SQL Services Manager >> http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns >> >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. >>> >>> When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from >>> archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using >>> replace >>> option. >>> >>> Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the >>> latest >>> one. >>> >>> To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and >>> backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll >>> make >>> some changes you wanted to overwrite back. >>> >>> >>> The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: >>> >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details >>> >>> named >>> >>> NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> >>> P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 22:09:46 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:09:46 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: SVN/Tortoise References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys><4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> <79BB180046B245148EE99D3537407C7A@Mattys> Message-ID: // Don't forget to comment/uncomment back on // comminitting your current version of code. Of course, I forgot :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:18 PM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: SVN/Tortoise > My Suppliers form worked and I 'uploaded' it. > > Program.cs was out of date, so the merge failed > > It said try Update, so I did - that failed, too. > > I think I like this anyway ... :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 02:50:30 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 10:50:30 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> References: <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Yes, that's useful - I have added the link to MS LIve dba-VBn favorites. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:17:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > I found this to help me out: > SQL Services Manager > http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > > > Mike, > > > > You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. > > > > When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from > > archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace > > option. > > > > Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the latest > > one. > > > > To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and > > backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll make > > some changes you wanted to overwrite back. > > > > > > The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details > > > > named > > > > NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > > >> Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection > >> Trouble. > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > >> Visual > >> Basic and related programming issues." > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > >> > >> > >> > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. > >> > > >> > - > >> > Michael R Mattys > >> > MapPoint and Database Dev > >> > www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 04:41:36 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:41:36 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM / Northwind.NET Sample application(s) and library(-ies) Message-ID: Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D ================================== Hi All, I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: http://northwind.codeplex.com/ under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use by a broad worldwide audience." I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week (excluding holidays). Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample application up&running on your PCs. If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what our SCRUM team is doing ... Thank you. -- Shamil From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu Mar 26 06:50:40 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:50:40 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? Message-ID: Hello Scrum Team, Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth running of the scrum project. With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you need / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it (commiting it) back in when you make changes. Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management to become a friction item in the scrum items. Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product owner) at the moment, in your opinion Thanks Mark 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > ================================== > > Hi All, > > I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: > > http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > > under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > > "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within > .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > > This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use by > a broad worldwide audience." > > I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > (excluding holidays). > > Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together > with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample application > up&running on your PCs. > > If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating > your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what our > SCRUM team is doing ... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 09:19:07 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:19:07 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark, Yes, SCRUM techniques and their practical application to our project are important but there are several other subjects of equal importance I'd suppose. - 1) Distributed SCRUM; - 1) Distributed Source Code Control and related technologies to "industrialize" software development: (automated) code refactoring, Test Driven Development, automated Unit/Integration/.... testing, automated coding quality checking, continuous integration etc. (sorry used some buzzwords here but I do know from my experienced all of them do have good practical application) ; - 3) Getting our team members who only start with .NET on speed with .NET development. Of course getting on full speed is a long story but getting on good speed is expected to be (much) shorter... Source Code Control for distributed teams for any real life size project (with thousands of source files) is a cornerstone for everything else in my opinion - I'd "sacrifice" some SCRUM practices but not Source Code Control... Getting our team members on good speed with .NET is the second most important task, and the third is SCRUM - SCRUM will be rather useless in our case without good final project developed, and that good final project can be developed without SCC but then I or somebody else of our team would have to spend their time on routine work of code coordination - let's better try to get automated SCC working with your server - it should be less "trouble" to solve for our team than to coordinate code changes manually (Note: yes, in the beginning I was telling we can live without SCC but now with your server and/or CodePlex working well I'd prefer to rely on automated SCC, and free some time to assist in coding for other team members...) I will be keeping here SCRUM stats on local TargetProcess system until I get it online (with help of TargetProcess helpdesk) and that work needs some time - I'd better do it than coordinate source code manually.... When we currently have two working options as your SCC Server and CodePlex we should use first of them (your server) as a team, and the second - CodePlex - I'd keep posting current versions every week to have them shared wit everybody. CodePlex is good but using your server (if you'll have time) will allow us to get e.g. CruiseControl.NET etc. running there and then we can use such tested configuration for other projects, consult others etc. - installing and keeping running such "continuous integration chain" is not "rocket-science" but doing that alone takes quite some time - together we can get it up&running much quicker... Mark, there is one concern about committing changes, namely, imagine somebody of our team adds new forms/reports/classes to one of the two projects, and another team members adds some more new forms/reports/classes to one of the two projects etc. - and they are doing that against common current versions of solution they have on their PC. What will happen with project files .csproj when they will be committed? Not sure here they will get merged properly. I'd try to test that ASAP: we can do that with you by chatting via MS Messenger/GoogleTalk and doing some additions to the source projects, and then committing them. Note: I'd suppose VisualSVN somehow handles this issue because it's a Visual Studio Add-in and such add-ins can process .csproj files smarter than just TortoiseSVN, which I expect (I can be wrong) would just try to "stupidly" merge two files producing incorrect .csproj file (which is an XML file)... > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > owner) at the moment, in your opinion Mark as far as I see what is missing in Access Northwind is navigation involving all forms and reports - maybe you can try to figure out such navigation by just filling a worksheet with rows having forms/reports names and some columns having "buttons" navigating to other forms/reports... It would be useful also to maybe try to install CruiseControl.NET and get it working on every commit running a "fake" unit test showing that currently committed code compiles and builds well, "fake" unit/integration test runs etc. but that kind of activity is not the one of ProductOwner - would you be interested to do something like that? - and when we're done with all forms/reports/navigation then we can join you to set this automated development environment. No need to set this environment quickly but setting it gradually piece by piece would be useful for all of us+. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:50:40 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hello Scrum Team, > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth > running of the scrum project. > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you need > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management to > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > Thanks > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > > ================================== > > > > Hi All, > > > > I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: > > > > http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > > > > under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > > > > "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > > demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within > > .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > > > > This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > > (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > > together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > > technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use by > > a broad worldwide audience." > > > > I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > > (excluding holidays). > > > > Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together > > with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > > follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample application > > up&running on your PCs. > > > > If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating > > your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what our > > SCRUM team is doing ... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 26 10:08:53 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? References: Message-ID: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> Hi Mark, The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to re-comment some code. Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Breen" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hello Scrum Team, > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth > running of the scrum project. > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > need > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management > to > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > Thanks > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D >> ================================== >> >> Hi All, >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use >> by >> a broad worldwide audience." >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week >> (excluding holidays). >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample >> application >> up&running on your PCs. >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what >> our >> SCRUM team is doing ... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 10:30:15 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:30:15 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> References: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get commit it yesterday? Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hi Mark, > > The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to > re-comment some code. > > Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Breen" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > Hello Scrum Team, > > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth > > running of the scrum project. > > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > > need > > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it > > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > > > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management > > to > > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > > > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > > > Thanks > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > >> ================================== > >> > >> Hi All, > >> > >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: > >> > >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > >> > >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > >> > >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within > >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > >> > >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use > >> by > >> a broad worldwide audience." > >> > >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > >> (excluding holidays). > >> > >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together > >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample > >> application > >> up&running on your PCs. > >> > >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating > >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what > >> our > >> SCRUM team is doing ... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 26 10:37:55 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:37:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? References: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> Message-ID: <2826E71E97424DC0901436D4A1A8F83F@Mattys> All committed! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hi Mike, > > But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get > commit it yesterday? > > Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's > just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the > forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code > line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - > don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. > > But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC > when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit > your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > >> Hi Mark, >> >> The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to >> re-comment some code. >> >> Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark Breen" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning >> Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? >> >> >> > Hello Scrum Team, >> > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, >> > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the >> > smooth >> > running of the scrum project. >> > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you >> > need >> > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking >> > it >> > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. >> > >> > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code >> > management >> > to >> > become a friction item in the scrum items. >> > >> > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product >> > owner) at the moment, in your opinion >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > Mark >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil >> > >> >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D >> >> ================================== >> >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on >> >> CodePlex: >> >> >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ >> >> >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). >> >> >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to >> >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used >> >> within >> >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. >> >> >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of >> >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working >> >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new >> >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to >> >> use >> >> by >> >> a broad worldwide audience." >> >> >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week >> >> (excluding holidays). >> >> >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded >> >> together >> >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and >> >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample >> >> application >> >> up&running on your PCs. >> >> >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep >> >> updating >> >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of >> >> what >> >> our >> >> SCRUM team is doing ... >> >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Shamil >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> dba-VB mailing list >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 10:58:26 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:58:26 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: <2826E71E97424DC0901436D4A1A8F83F@Mattys> References: <2826E71E97424DC0901436D4A1A8F83F@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, I have got your updates using Visual SVN and it worked OK - I see your new form in the VS project - although form do not work now - all forms... ...no problem I will try to find what happened - I currently see app.config in the project is OK for my environment - so ir should be something else... ...stay tuned. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:37:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > All committed! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:30 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get > > commit it yesterday? > > > > Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's > > just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the > > forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code > > line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - > > don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. > > > > But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC > > when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit > > your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > >> Hi Mark, > >> > >> The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to > >> re-comment some code. > >> > >> Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mark Breen" > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > >> Visual > >> Basic and related programming issues." > >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > >> > >> > >> > Hello Scrum Team, > >> > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > >> > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the > >> > smooth > >> > running of the scrum project. > >> > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > >> > need > >> > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking > >> > it > >> > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > >> > > >> > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code > >> > management > >> > to > >> > become a friction item in the scrum items. > >> > > >> > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > >> > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > > >> > Mark > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> > > >> >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > >> >> ================================== > >> >> > >> >> Hi All, > >> >> > >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on > >> >> CodePlex: > >> >> > >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > >> >> > >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > >> >> > >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > >> >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used > >> >> within > >> >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > >> >> > >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > >> >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > >> >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > >> >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to > >> >> use > >> >> by > >> >> a broad worldwide audience." > >> >> > >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > >> >> (excluding holidays). > >> >> > >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded > >> >> together > >> >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > >> >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample > >> >> application > >> >> up&running on your PCs. > >> >> > >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep > >> >> updating > >> >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of > >> >> what > >> >> our > >> >> SCRUM team is doing ... > >> >> > >> >> Thank you. > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Shamil > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> dba-VB mailing list > >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 11:48:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:48:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, OK, this should: Right-Click Project name -> Properties -> Settings -> NorthwindNETConnectionString with setting value = Data Source=HAMBURG\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True which should be edited and then app.config's sestion is getting (re-)generated. But as far as I can see the value from app.config is not used by strongly-typed datasets - instead hardcoded value from Northwind.NET.FE -> Properties -> Settings.Designer.cs is used... We can keep replacing each other connection strings if we will be commiting Settings.Designer.cs and app.config - IOW better not commit them if we do not introduce new settings. In any event take anote that if you are getting trouble opening say CategoriesForm then you have to edit connection string in project settings not in app.config. Sorry for confusion I introduced. (I must say I rarely use strongly typed datasets but this issue/subject is another story we can talk in half a year probably - maybe in that time I will become adept of strongly typed datasets and ADO.NET Entity Framework and I will forget my current preferences of using custom object models with as little ADO.NET as possibel and without any strongly typed datasets at all... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I have to make a correction of my video tutorial now. -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:58:26 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > Hi Mike, > > I have got your updates using Visual SVN and it worked OK - I see your new form in the VS project - although form do not work now - all forms... > > ...no problem I will try to find what happened - I currently see app.config in the project is OK for my environment - so ir should be something else... > > ...stay tuned. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:37:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > All committed! > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get > > > commit it yesterday? > > > > > > Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's > > > just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the > > > forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code > > > line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - > > > don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. > > > > > > But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC > > > when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit > > > your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > > issues." > > > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > > >> Hi Mark, > > >> > > >> The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to > > >> re-comment some code. > > >> > > >> Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? > > >> > > >> - > > >> Michael R Mattys > > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > >> - > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Mark Breen" > > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > > >> Visual > > >> Basic and related programming issues." > > >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > >> > > >> > > >> > Hello Scrum Team, > > >> > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > > >> > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the > > >> > smooth > > >> > running of the scrum project. > > >> > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > > >> > need > > >> > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking > > >> > it > > >> > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > >> > > > >> > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code > > >> > management > > >> > to > > >> > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > >> > > > >> > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > > >> > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > >> > > > >> > Thanks > > >> > > > >> > Mark > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > >> > > > >> >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > > >> >> ================================== > > >> >> > > >> >> Hi All, > > >> >> > > >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on > > >> >> CodePlex: > > >> >> > > >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > > >> >> > > >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > > >> >> > > >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > > >> >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used > > >> >> within > > >> >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > > >> >> > > >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > > >> >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > > >> >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > > >> >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to > > >> >> use > > >> >> by > > >> >> a broad worldwide audience." > > >> >> > > >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > > >> >> (excluding holidays). > > >> >> > > >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded > > >> >> together > > >> >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > > >> >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample > > >> >> application > > >> >> up&running on your PCs. > > >> >> > > >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep > > >> >> updating > > >> >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of > > >> >> what > > >> >> our > > >> >> SCRUM team is doing ... > > >> >> > > >> >> Thank you. > > >> >> > > >> >> -- > > >> >> Shamil > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > >> >> dba-VB mailing list > > >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > dba-VB mailing list > > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> dba-VB mailing list > > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 04:08:20 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and All, I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 05:02:25 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:02:25 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 27 05:29:17 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:29:17 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all This really caused me a headache, and even when I found out as described here that the connection string is stored in the settings too, I still couldn't open the datasets as described here: https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/Workaround.aspx?FeedbackID=113567 However, this morning after a restart it suddenly worked. This issue is not common as in "real life" we all would attach to the same database, thus the issue would be moot. Despite all the trouble with the source code system - it took some time to get going - I like it very much including VisualSVN. It is extremely convenient to have the tiny green/yellow/red balls juxtaposed the normal icons - at a glance you can see which files have been changed. Sometimes you need a kick to get started and I will for sure follow this route and set up my own server for new projects as I work both from home and from the office. Also, external assistance could be called easily! /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 26-03-2009 17:48 >>> Hi SCRUM Team and all, OK, this should: Right-Click Project name -> Properties -> Settings -> NorthwindNETConnectionString with setting value = Data Source=HAMBURG\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True which should be edited and then app.config's sestion is getting (re-)generated. But as far as I can see the value from app.config is not used by strongly-typed datasets - instead hardcoded value from Northwind.NET.FE -> Properties -> Settings.Designer.cs is used... We can keep replacing each other connection strings if we will be commiting Settings.Designer.cs and app.config - IOW better not commit them if we do not introduce new settings. In any event take anote that if you are getting trouble opening say CategoriesForm then you have to edit connection string in project settings not in app.config. Sorry for confusion I introduced. (I must say I rarely use strongly typed datasets but this issue/subject is another story we can talk in half a year probably - maybe in that time I will become adept of strongly typed datasets and ADO.NET Entity Framework and I will forget my current preferences of using custom object models with as little ADO.NET as possibel and without any strongly typed datasets at all... Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 27 05:32:12 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... Message-ID: Hi Shamil I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 06:35:25 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:35:25 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav and SCRUM Team, The issue was that in app.config we have got somehow renamed Northwind.NET.FE.Properties.Settings.NorthwindNETConnectionString to NNNorthwind.NET.FE.Properties.Settings.NorthwindNETConnectionString watch two addiional letters 'NNN' added in the beginning... The fact is that when you change connection string in app.config it's OK and good enough for datasets to work/use this connection string. But it still isn't changed in application settings. If (as we have got) the connection string name is renamed in app.config then Visual Studio (e.g. when you try to preview datasets' data) uses default value from settings - and this value is hardcoded on last edit and compile of application settings (via project properties-> settings designer) etc. Visual Studio has several such "points of confusion" because it uses parts of the source project "compiled on the fly" in *design mode*: strongly typed datasets are just C# classes and when they are used in design mode they get compiled and they use settings which are loaded from app.config if corresponding app.config value is present, and it was absent in our case - hence Visual Studio used hardcoded value... Moreover in runtime {{executable file name}}.config file is used to load settings - in our case this is Northwind.NET.FE.exe.config (check \Bin folder) - this file is generated by VS on project rebuilding. (I didn't put this file under source code control as everybody gets their own vesion of this file when they recompile/rebuild solution and this happens every time you do a change to your code and then start application from within visual studion with or wothout debugging. Some more information: there are different *scopes* of settings as you can see in settings design window: - Application and User. When one will try to find how this works they usually get lost (as I do :)) - when you save User scope settings when using your app in runtime mode they *do get saved* but not in {{executable file name}}.config - they are saved somewhere on your system in your windows current user area - I still can't find where - do you? Visual Studio and .NET Framework are huge and it takes some time to get used to them - I'm working with them for fifth year and still see that there comes a lot of new stuff to learn as opposite to MS Access when I was at "guru level" in less than two years of using MS Access application in actual development - I suppose that "guru level" with .NET Framework and VS is unacheivable in one's lifetime :) - and I feel OK with that :)))... Let's discuss actively the issues as the subject one then we will proceed quicker - as I have written here several times: please questions everything you see coming from here, especially if it doesn't work as expected... (as I noted I didn't use strongly typed datastes that much with .NET and I didn't use standard handling of settings in VS because they partially are "black boxes" in some parts but for this project to avoid a lot of manual coding we'd better use these "black boxes")... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. This is how strongly typed dataset gets connection string value from settings, and settings load that value from app.config if it's present there AFAIU or use hardcoded value if it's absent - the latter happended in our case with two additional letters 'NN' getting in front of connection string name in app.config: DataModelDataSet.Designer.cs ============================ .... [global::System.Diagnostics.DebuggerNonUserCodeAttribute()] private void InitConnection() { this._connection = new global::System.Data.SqlClient.SqlConnection(); this._connection.ConnectionString = global::Northwind.NET.FE.Properties.Settings.Default.NorthwindNETConnectionString; } ... Settings.Designer.cs ===================== namespace Northwind.NET.FE.Properties { [global::System.Runtime.CompilerServices.CompilerGeneratedAttribute()] [global::System.CodeDom.Compiler.GeneratedCodeAttribute("Microsoft.VisualStudio.Editors.SettingsDesigner.SettingsSingleFileGenerator", "9.0.0.0")] internal sealed partial class Settings : global::System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase { private static Settings defaultInstance = ((Settings)(global::System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase.Synchronized(new Settings()))); public static Settings Default { get { return defaultInstance; } } [global::System.Configuration.ApplicationScopedSettingAttribute()] [global::System.Diagnostics.DebuggerNonUserCodeAttribute()] [global::System.Configuration.SpecialSettingAttribute(global::System.Configuration.SpecialSetting.ConnectionString)] [global::System.Configuration.DefaultSettingValueAttribute("Data Source=HAMBURG\\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True" + ";Language=English")] public string NorthwindNETConnectionString { get { return ((string)(this["NorthwindNETConnectionString"])); } } -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: " Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:29:17 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hi SCRUM Team and all > > This really caused me a headache, and even when I found out as described here that the connection string is stored in the settings too, I still couldn't open the datasets as described here: > > https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/Workaround.aspx?FeedbackID=113567 > > However, this morning after a restart it suddenly worked. > > This issue is not common as in "real life" we all would attach to the same database, thus the issue would be moot. > > Despite all the trouble with the source code system - it took some time to get going - I like it very much including VisualSVN. It is extremely convenient to have the tiny green/yellow/red balls juxtaposed the normal icons - at a glance you can see which files have been changed. > Sometimes you need a kick to get started and I will for sure follow this route and set up my own server for new projects as I work both from home and from the office. Also, external assistance could be called easily! > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 26-03-2009 17:48 >>> > > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > OK, this should: > > Right-Click Project name -> Properties -> Settings -> NorthwindNETConnectionString > > with setting value = > > Data Source=HAMBURG\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True > > which should be edited and then app.config's sestion is getting (re-)generated. But as far as I can see the value from app.config is not used by strongly-typed datasets - instead hardcoded value from > > Northwind.NET.FE -> Properties -> Settings.Designer.cs is used... > > We can keep replacing each other connection strings if we will be commiting > > Settings.Designer.cs and app.config - IOW better not commit them if we do not introduce new settings. > > In any event take anote that if you are getting trouble opening say CategoriesForm then you have to edit connection string in project settings not in app.config. > > Sorry for confusion I introduced. (I must say I rarely use strongly typed datasets but this issue/subject is another story we can talk in half a year probably - maybe in that time I will become adept of strongly typed datasets and ADO.NET Entity Framework and I will forget my current preferences of using custom object models with as little ADO.NET as possibel and without any strongly typed datasets at all... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 06:42:57 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:42:57 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, Gustav, thank you. I will make then Orders tomorrow morning. Let me note that Employee form has some pics to load from files (when they are present) we have None such pics currently - do you plan to add some (using ones from Access Northwind?) - maybe just one fake pic - that would be enough for this version. If you plan to add some pics please put them into \Pictures (or \Images) subfolder of \Bin folder then you can get the full path to this folder using Northwind.NET.Utilities.Context.ExecutingAssemblyFolderName + @"Pictures\" Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi Shamil > > I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... > > Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 06:50:55 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 07:50:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... References: Message-ID: <65CCBA9CCC82415C865F74FD8C64017E@Mattys> Hi Shamil, Please do accept it as done. My Northwind Traders mdt won't materialize, so I don't have any idea what any of the forms should look like, so I rushed to get the structure of the form complete so that I wouldn't hold up the team. If there are formatting issues or code to do, I will do it in following weeks. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 5:08 AM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are > commited to our SCC server. > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" > state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to > fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely > "DONE") > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - > so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 27 07:55:56 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:55:56 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... Message-ID: Hi Shamil I've got the pictures and will include them. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 12:42 >>> OK, Gustav, thank you. I will make then Orders tomorrow morning. Let me note that Employee form has some pics to load from files (when they are present) we have None such pics currently - do you plan to add some (using ones from Access Northwind?) - maybe just one fake pic - that would be enough for this version. If you plan to add some pics please put them into \Pictures (or \Images) subfolder of \Bin folder then you can get the full path to this folder using Northwind.NET.Utilities.Context.ExecutingAssemblyFolderName + @"Pictures\" Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi Shamil > > I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... > > Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 08:15:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:15:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, OK, thank you. Please put them under source control too - \Bin folder and \Bin Logs folder are put in there but that's it, and when new files are added in \Bin folder it could be needed to manually set checkmark for them while commiting your changes/additions. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:55:56 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi Shamil > > I've got the pictures and will include them. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 12:42 >>> > OK, Gustav, thank you. > > I will make then Orders tomorrow morning. > > Let me note that Employee form has some pics to load from files (when they are present) we have None such pics currently - do you plan to add some (using ones from Access Northwind?) - maybe just one fake pic - that would be enough for this version. > > If you plan to add some pics please put them into \Pictures (or \Images) subfolder of \Bin folder then you can get the full path to this folder using > > Northwind.NET.Utilities.Context.ExecutingAssemblyFolderName + @"Pictures\" > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > Hi Shamil > > > > I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... > > > > Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: dba-VB > > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > > > > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > > > > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > > > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 08:50:48 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:50:48 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: Message-ID: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. "Object Not Instantiated" blah! I reverted to my previous form using SVN. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 09:34:02 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:34:02 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Message-ID: I can't spend any more time, have to go to dentist - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked > on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. > > Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton > and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. > "Object Not Instantiated" blah! > > I reverted to my previous form using SVN. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 12:58:58 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:58:58 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBEZXNp?= =?koi8-r?b?Z24gTm90ZQ==?= In-Reply-To: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> References: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, When you do renaming buttons that should work - you get new button name but still old name of event procedure but code shoudl compile and this event procedure should work. I guess you could have made some other edits, which resulted in design time error message. Please don't give up when you'll see all that "Object Not Instantiated" messages etc. - just type CTRL+SHIFT+B to rebuild solution and then Ctrl+\, Ctrl+E to show "Errors List" window and from the latter window by clicking on its entries you csn go directly to the code lines resulting in that error messages - and edit/fix code manually.... Master these skills now when the project is simple... WinForm code in VS2008 consists from two standard code files constituting *one* class: 1. {{FormName}}.cs - part of partial form class to implement custom logic 2. {{FormName}}.Designer.cs - part of partial form class used by form designer on design time as well as to instantiate form on runtime - have a look what code you have for Form1 and button1 control with Cick event having its empty event procedure: Form1.cs ========= public partial class Form1 : Form { ... private void button1_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) { } } Form1.Designer.cs ================== private void InitializeComponent() { this.button1 = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); ... // // button1 // this.button1.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); this.button1.Name = "button1"; this.button1.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); this.button1.TabIndex = 0; this.button1.Text = "button1"; this.button1.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; this.button1.Click += new System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); // ... When you rename button1 to addProductButton you'll get ... this.addProductButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); ... // // addProductButton // this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; this.addProductButton.Text = "button1"; this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; this.addProductButton.Click += new System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); ... You can go and rename the rest manually like that: Form1.cs ========= public partial class Form1 : Form { ... private void addProductButton_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) { } } Form1.Designer.cs ================== private void InitializeComponent() { this.addProductsButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); .... this.SuspendLayout(); // // addProductButton // this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; this.addProductButton.Text = "Add Product"; this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; this.addProductButton.Click += new System.EventHandler(this.addProductButton_Click); ... and everything should work OK. I'm doing such renamings almost automatically when needed. There are other ways to fix this issue. Please note control names are started from lowerCase and use camelCase - that's a used by most of the developers namng convention recommended by MS. Once again please do such renaming several times in a test project or directly in our main project - don't be afarid doing that - it's a usual practice. Note that in designer part of code the code is usually hidden in VS2008 because of using #region Windows Form Designer generated code .... #endregion Sorry I can't write in all the details - such writing takes a lot of time... Note (as in the case with strongly typed datasets we discussed here in another thread) there is Design and Run-Time modes for many parts of code you develop under VS - but some code (as for forms) can be changed manually while the other (as for strongly typed datasets) should be better kept untouched to not get your project heavily screwed... For forms all the design information is stored in code and interpreted/executed by VS designers on design time but for strtongly typed datasets there are also some xml files keeping those datasets attributes and properties and those xml files are used by VS to generate C# code used on runtime.... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:50:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked > on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. > > Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton > and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. > "Object Not Instantiated" blah! > > I reverted to my previous form using SVN. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 13:07:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:58 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Message-ID: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> Thanks, Shamil If I keep making you write, you'll have enough for a book soon :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > > Hi Mike, > > When you do renaming buttons that should work - you get new button name > but still old name of event procedure but code shoudl compile and this > event procedure should work. > > I guess you could have made some other edits, which resulted in design > time error message. > > Please don't give up when you'll see all that "Object Not Instantiated" > messages etc. - just type > > CTRL+SHIFT+B to rebuild solution and then > > Ctrl+\, Ctrl+E to show "Errors List" window > > and from the latter window by clicking on its entries you csn go directly > to the code lines resulting in that error messages - and edit/fix code > manually.... > > Master these skills now when the project is simple... > > WinForm code in VS2008 consists from two standard code files constituting > *one* class: > > 1. {{FormName}}.cs - part of partial form class to implement custom logic > 2. {{FormName}}.Designer.cs - part of partial form class used by form > designer on design time as well as to instantiate form on runtime - have a > look what code you have for Form1 and button1 control with Cick event > having its empty event procedure: > > Form1.cs > ========= > > public partial class Form1 : Form > { > ... > private void button1_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) > { > > } > } > > > Form1.Designer.cs > ================== > > private void InitializeComponent() > { > this.button1 = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); > ... > // > // button1 > // > this.button1.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); > this.button1.Name = "button1"; > this.button1.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); > this.button1.TabIndex = 0; > this.button1.Text = "button1"; > this.button1.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; > this.button1.Click += new > System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); > // > > ... > > > When you rename button1 to addProductButton you'll get > ... > this.addProductButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); > ... > // > // addProductButton > // > this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, > 46); > this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; > this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); > this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; > this.addProductButton.Text = "button1"; > this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; > this.addProductButton.Click += new > System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); > > ... > > You can go and rename the rest manually like that: > > Form1.cs > ========= > > public partial class Form1 : Form > { > ... > private void addProductButton_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) > { > > } > } > > > Form1.Designer.cs > ================== > > private void InitializeComponent() > { > this.addProductsButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); > .... > this.SuspendLayout(); > // > // addProductButton > // > this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, > 46); > this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; > this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); > this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; > this.addProductButton.Text = "Add Product"; > this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; > this.addProductButton.Click += new > System.EventHandler(this.addProductButton_Click); > > ... > > and everything should work OK. > > I'm doing such renamings almost automatically when needed. > There are other ways to fix this issue. > Please note control names are started from lowerCase and use camelCase - > that's a used by most of the developers namng convention recommended by > MS. > > Once again please do such renaming several times in a test project or > directly in our main project - don't be afarid doing that - it's a usual > practice. > > Note that in designer part of code the code is usually hidden in VS2008 > because of using > > #region Windows Form Designer generated code > .... > #endregion > > Sorry I can't write in all the details - such writing takes a lot of > time... > > Note (as in the case with strongly typed datasets we discussed here in > another thread) there is Design and Run-Time modes for many parts of code > you develop under VS - but some code (as for forms) can be changed > manually while the other (as for strongly typed datasets) should be better > kept untouched to not get your project heavily screwed... > > For forms all the design information is stored in code and > interpreted/executed by VS designers on design time but for strtongly > typed datasets there are also some xml files keeping those datasets > attributes and properties and those xml files are used by VS to generate > C# code used on runtime.... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:50:48 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > >> Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked >> on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. >> >> Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton >> and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. >> "Object Not Instantiated" blah! >> >> I reverted to my previous form using SVN. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 13:23:16 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:23:16 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBEZXNp?= =?koi8-r?b?Z24gTm90ZQ==?= In-Reply-To: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> References: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you, Mike, Let's assume this is a training in writing :) - I mean I'd prefer to write on a bit more advanced C# development subjects then with time that writtten stuff could be collected into an original book probaby. I must also say that the quantity and quality of stuff written about .NET Framework and C# and OOP etc. is so enormous nowadays that to find some original subjects to write about is a real issue - almost everything looks as deja' vue... Sorry for some mistypings but I'm typing directly in plain text without spell-checker in my Internet e-mail client... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Thanks, Shamil > If I keep making you write, you'll have enough for a book soon :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 13:38:37 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:38:37 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> Message-ID: It isn't deja vu - I'm 7 or 8 years overdue for .Net, that's all. Thanks again, Shamil PS - let me know when one can see the top of the mountain! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Thank you, Mike, > > Let's assume this is a training in writing :) - I mean I'd prefer to write > on a bit more advanced C# development subjects then with time that > writtten stuff could be collected into an original book probaby. I must > also say that the quantity and quality of stuff written about .NET > Framework and C# and OOP etc. is so enormous nowadays that to find some > original subjects to write about is a real issue - almost everything looks > as deja' vue... > > Sorry for some mistypings but I'm typing directly in plain text without > spell-checker in my Internet e-mail client... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:58 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > >> Thanks, Shamil >> If I keep making you write, you'll have enough for a book soon :) >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 30 11:49:05 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:49:05 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team So how are we proceeding? I'm a little unsure what the next step is ... /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 25-03-2009 18:18 >>> Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 30 15:44:10 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:44:10 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team As Shamil has written several times, we have to learn new techniques and tools. TortoiseSVN/VirtualSVN has been an eye-opener to me - it is a pleasure to work with and if you never before have use a versioning system for your code, this is your chance. To me it is double fun as I work both at home, from a laptop and at the office. Previously I just copied the complete solution folder to and from an FTP folder - now I can just open VS and in a minute I have al updates from wherever they were made! I really appreciate the time Shamil has taken to get this going - I know very well have much time it takes to research and test and set up. The Employee form was a bit late - I had some troubles with it, but Shamil came up with a good solution for storing the pictures. How are you doing Doug and John? Can you also open and download the pictures of the employees? /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 30-03-2009 18:49 >>> Hi SCRUM Team So how are we proceeding? I'm a little unsure what the next step is ... /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 25-03-2009 18:18 >>> Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. From marklbreen at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 14:01:36 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:01:36 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Gustav, Thanks for the update, I also fear that I may have some tasks that I should be doing, but am not. I guess that I could attempt to get the current code version and review it as Product Owner, but somehow, I fear that I may not be supposed to 'look behind the curtin' until it is ready. So, currently I have no work to do, anyone may correct me if I have this wrong. I am also using the SCCS at the moment, on another project, and getting more and more pleased with how well it works. What I have not delved into yet, is the concept of branches and trunks, perhaps I should put that on the list. Also, we will eventually need to store the db in source control also. I tried a a few years ago to get a fast way to do that, but did not really achieve what I wanted. Of course one method is that I could place the db on the same server as the SCCS but if we do that, it must have some element of care taken, so that one developer does not break the other work. It may not be urgent, but for sure we will eventually need a protected db that is there for each developer to try out major versions of his work. For the minor versions, he can work in his own local machine. This then brings the other arkward issue of connection strings, which I find to be a pain when I have many systems to work with, and to test code. What is great about SVN and the other tools is they are so good and they are free. that is amazing. Thanks Mark 2009/3/30 Gustav Brock > Hi SCRUM Team > > As Shamil has written several times, we have to learn new techniques and > tools. TortoiseSVN/VirtualSVN has been an eye-opener to me - it is a > pleasure to work with and if you never before have use a versioning system > for your code, this is your chance. To me it is double fun as I work both at > home, from a laptop and at the office. Previously I just copied the complete > solution folder to and from an FTP folder - now I can just open VS and in a > minute I have al updates from wherever they were made! > > I really appreciate the time Shamil has taken to get this going - I know > very well have much time it takes to research and test and set up. > > The Employee form was a bit late - I had some troubles with it, but Shamil > came up with a good solution for storing the pictures. > > How are you doing Doug and John? Can you also open and download the > pictures of the employees? > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 30-03-2009 18:49 >>> > Hi SCRUM Team > > So how are we proceeding? > I'm a little unsure what the next step is ... > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 25-03-2009 18:18 >>> > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 31 16:45:27 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:45:27 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: Message-ID: <2D4BC8938DED4924AB557F977E5E0C0B@Mattys> I hope no one is waiting on me ... ? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 05:26:30 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:26:30 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM and C# Message-ID: Hello Gustav, Mike, John, Doug, Are you here in dba-VB? Andy asked us to switch to this list as the subject is a kind of off-topic for Access-D. Let's have posting/dicussing the subject topics only here in dba-VB? Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 05:46:12 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:46:12 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum Message-ID: Hi Shamil No problem for me with TargetProcess and five members. And if "lurkers" are allowed, it would be fine. Which tool is best I really will leave to you as I don't know what factors are important. I think, however, that it must be free to establish and use. /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 12:17:14 >>> Hi Gustav, 5 team members shoudl be optimal for this first project. Additional Access-D members who wanted to join could play the role of ProductOwner/stakeholders/users. And in the next project we can try to extend the team. TargetProcess currently looks the best SCRUM/agile project management/tracking tools for me because of the free community edition with the complete functionality and because it's ASP.NET based. But of course we have to look how it works when installed on ASP.NET hosting server: it looks good on demos, if could be not so good (slow) when used from Internet. If that will not work then we can look for some alternative and meanwhile keep ProdcutBacklog and BurnDown task list and other tracking info manually as for this small project and 5 team members that woudl be not that much additional work... Maybe we can just use MS Live or Google groupwork/teamwork features... But TargetProcess being dedicated for SCRUM/agile process and have good credentials looks the first candidate to use now... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:18:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum > Hi Shamil > > But wouldn't it be dangerous to rely on TargetProcess Community Edition and only five free licenses? If a sixth member would join (you aimed for 7 +/-2 members) we all will have to pay $249 which I think is not likely to be accepted. > > I installed Popfly (very easy). It integrates directly into Visual Studio as a menu entry - couldn't be easier. If it fits the purpose, of course, which I can't tell. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > Thank you, Doug, > > Now we have 5 team members! :) > > Gustav, > Mike, > John, > Doug, > Shamil > > And the team is complete for this first project as we plan to use TargetProcess SCRUM/agile management softwarem which free community edition has only five free licenses. I have got this edition already and I plan to install it within this week on my ASP.NET hosting site (because I do not have server side access to thsi ASP.NEt hosting site the installation needs some manual work). From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 05:58:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:58:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, Gustav. Let's wait for Mike, John and Doug to appear here and then set and prioritize the short list of preparatory tasks to fullfll before we start actual teamwork pogramming of MS Access NorthWind to .NET Winforms + MS SQL NorthWind conversion project. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:46:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > Hi Shamil > > No problem for me with TargetProcess and five members. And if "lurkers" are allowed, it would be fine. > > Which tool is best I really will leave to you as I don't know what factors are important. I think, however, that it must be free to establish and use. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 12:17:14 >>> > > Hi Gustav, > > 5 team members shoudl be optimal for this first project. > > Additional Access-D members who wanted to join could play the role of ProductOwner/stakeholders/users. > > And in the next project we can try to extend the team. > > TargetProcess currently looks the best SCRUM/agile project management/tracking tools for me because of the free community edition with the complete functionality and because it's ASP.NET based. > > But of course we have to look how it works when installed on ASP.NET hosting server: it looks good on demos, if could be not so good (slow) when used from Internet. > > If that will not work then we can look for some alternative and meanwhile keep ProdcutBacklog and BurnDown task list and other tracking info manually as for this small project and 5 team members that woudl be not that much additional work... > > Maybe we can just use MS Live or Google groupwork/teamwork features... > > But TargetProcess being dedicated for SCRUM/agile process and have good credentials looks the first candidate to use now... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:18:27 +0100 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum > > > Hi Shamil > > > > But wouldn't it be dangerous to rely on TargetProcess Community Edition and only five free licenses? If a sixth member would join (you aimed for 7 +/-2 members) we all will have to pay $249 which I think is not likely to be accepted. > > > > I installed Popfly (very easy). It integrates directly into Visual Studio as a menu entry - couldn't be easier. If it fits the purpose, of course, which I can't tell. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > > > Thank you, Doug, > > > > Now we have 5 team members! :) > > > > Gustav, > > Mike, > > John, > > Doug, > > Shamil > > > > And the team is complete for this first project as we plan to use TargetProcess SCRUM/agile management softwarem which free community edition has only five free licenses. I have got this edition already and I plan to install it within this week on my ASP.NET hosting site (because I do not have server side access to thsi ASP.NEt hosting site the installation needs some manual work). > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 07:37:09 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 08:37:09 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum References: Message-ID: I'm here. Hoping that we can just use C# Express ... - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > > OK, Gustav. > > Let's wait for Mike, John and Doug to appear here and then set and > prioritize the short list of preparatory tasks to fullfll before we start > actual teamwork pogramming of MS Access NorthWind to .NET Winforms + MS > SQL NorthWind conversion project. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:46:12 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > >> Hi Shamil >> >> No problem for me with TargetProcess and five members. And if "lurkers" >> are allowed, it would be fine. >> >> Which tool is best I really will leave to you as I don't know what >> factors are important. I think, however, that it must be free to >> establish and use. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 12:17:14 >>> >> >> Hi Gustav, >> >> 5 team members shoudl be optimal for this first project. >> >> Additional Access-D members who wanted to join could play the role of >> ProductOwner/stakeholders/users. >> >> And in the next project we can try to extend the team. >> >> TargetProcess currently looks the best SCRUM/agile project >> management/tracking tools for me because of the free community edition >> with the complete functionality and because it's ASP.NET based. >> >> But of course we have to look how it works when installed on ASP.NET >> hosting server: it looks good on demos, if could be not so good (slow) >> when used from Internet. >> >> If that will not work then we can look for some alternative and meanwhile >> keep ProdcutBacklog and BurnDown task list and other tracking info >> manually as for this small project and 5 team members that woudl be not >> that much additional work... >> >> Maybe we can just use MS Live or Google groupwork/teamwork features... >> >> But TargetProcess being dedicated for SCRUM/agile process and have good >> credentials looks the first candidate to use now... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Gustav Brock" >> To: >> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:18:27 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum >> >> > Hi Shamil >> > >> > But wouldn't it be dangerous to rely on TargetProcess Community Edition >> > and only five free licenses? If a sixth member would join (you aimed >> > for 7 +/-2 members) we all will have to pay $249 which I think is not >> > likely to be accepted. >> > >> > I installed Popfly (very easy). It integrates directly into Visual >> > Studio as a menu entry - couldn't be easier. If it fits the purpose, of >> > course, which I can't tell. >> > >> > /gustav >> > >> > >> > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> >> > >> > Thank you, Doug, >> > >> > Now we have 5 team members! :) >> > >> > Gustav, >> > Mike, >> > John, >> > Doug, >> > Shamil >> > >> > And the team is complete for this first project as we plan to use >> > TargetProcess SCRUM/agile management softwarem which free community >> > edition has only five free licenses. I have got this edition already >> > and I plan to install it within this week on my ASP.NET hosting site >> > (because I do not have server side access to thsi ASP.NEt hosting site >> > the installation needs some manual work). >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 08:01:34 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:01:34 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNjcnVtIGFuZCBDIw==?= In-Reply-To: <49ABD90C.5010408@colbyconsulting.com> References: <49ABD90C.5010408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John, Let's switch to dba-VB (this message crossposted there). OK. Our task now is to find a way how to handle the context when we have different VS and C# Express version. We can handle that I think - there are several ways how to do that - please all teh team members write here what VS or Express version you plan to use: Gustav Mike John Doug Shamil - 1st. VS2005 Prof. as it's important for ReportViewer control and John doesn't have VS2008 Standard. 2nd - VS2008 Prof. if everybody manages to get somehow at least VS2008 Standard version. Once again it's desirable to have the same .NET development development tools but in our case we I think can rather flexibly hanlde the contex with us having diffrenet versions. IOW my choise above is my context not my proposal to eveybody to get one or another of the above versions. Still unclear here does VS2005 Stabdard or VS2008 Standard build well the sample projects I posted the link of yesterday http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip Mike I did get you have Express version only - we will find how to hadle that context. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:03:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > Shamil, > > Professional edition costs a fair amount. Given that I make no money off of .Net (yet) I am unable > to spend on it. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Well, we can try to get this project done with 2005 and 2008 versions of VS hopefully Standard and Prof. version would be both OK. > > > > The best of course would be to get VS2008 Prof. for everybody (Standard editions would also qualify if it compiles well test solutions and allow to design .NET Report Viewer reports - http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB)) > > > > If Standard Edition doesn't allow to edit .NET Report Viewer reports then those reports can be placed in classlib, and the team members with Prof. Editions will design reports, the other team members will design forms - that should be possible... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jwcolby > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 00:05:48 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > > > >> The problem is that everyone needs to use the same environment. The Express version's code won't > >> run in VS and vice versa. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> > >> > >> William Hindman wrote: > >>> ...dl VS2008 Express for free instead ...you can't compile dlls or use > >>> add-ons with it but otherwise you should be able to contribute/participate > >>> without laying out a few hundred until you're certain its worthwhile for > >>> you. > >>> > >>> William > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------- > >>> From: "Mike Mattys" > >>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:37 PM > >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>> > >>>> I have neither. > >>>> I'll have to visit eBay > >>>> > >>>> - > >>>> Michael R Mattys > >>>> MapPoint and Database Dev > >>>> www.mattysconsulting.com > >>>> - > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Gustav Brock" > >>>> To: > >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:28 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> I have both VS2005 and VS2008 running, both in Standard version however. > >>>>> > >>>>> /gustav > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 01-03-2009 22:18:27 >>> > >>>>> Forwarded from Shamil who has some trouble with his AccessD mail account: > >>>>> > >>>>> *- > >>>>> > >>>>> Gustav and Mike do you have VS2005? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 08:01:25 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:01:25 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum Message-ID: Hi Michael Fine! Popfly should work with Express versions as well: http://www.popfly.com/Overview/Explorer.aspx /gustav >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 14:37:09 >>> I'm here. Hoping that we can just use C# Express ... - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 08:26:12 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:26:12 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum References: Message-ID: <849D391F39A148FFBD799B12EBFC973E@Mattys> Installed and signed up - where are we locating ourselves? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > Hi Michael > > Fine! > > Popfly should work with Express versions as well: > > http://www.popfly.com/Overview/Explorer.aspx > > /gustav > > >>>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 14:37:09 >>> > I'm here. > Hoping that we can just use C# Express ... > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 08:29:09 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:29:09 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Message-ID: Hi Shamil et al Here (great site, bookmark that): http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express versions. The 2008 version can be found here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the Express versions. According to this: http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. Could someone please check this out? /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> Hi Shamil They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample solutions http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also qualify as development evnironment. From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 08:51:36 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:51:36 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: <5AAE300AFD7041F9B4A4F5870249E650@Mattys> Well, some of this day will be spent on -> Windows Update Express SP1 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Shamil et al > > Here (great site, bookmark that): > > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > versions. > The 2008 version can be found here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > Express versions. > According to this: > > http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > Could someone please check this out? > > /gustav > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > Hi Shamil > > They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > /gustav > > >>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > solutions > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > qualify as development evnironment. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Mar 2 12:57:55 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:57:55 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] Scrum and C# In-Reply-To: References: <49ABD90C.5010408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <7E130D3AB22F44638EC87381BFB47C8E@murphy3234aaf1> Doug will use VS2008 Professional. I have VS 2005 and can reinstall if required. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# Hi John, Let's switch to dba-VB (this message crossposted there). OK. Our task now is to find a way how to handle the context when we have different VS and C# Express version. We can handle that I think - there are several ways how to do that - please all teh team members write here what VS or Express version you plan to use: Gustav Mike John Doug Shamil - 1st. VS2005 Prof. as it's important for ReportViewer control and John doesn't have VS2008 Standard. 2nd - VS2008 Prof. if everybody manages to get somehow at least VS2008 Standard version. Once again it's desirable to have the same .NET development development tools but in our case we I think can rather flexibly hanlde the contex with us having diffrenet versions. IOW my choise above is my context not my proposal to eveybody to get one or another of the above versions. Still unclear here does VS2005 Stabdard or VS2008 Standard build well the sample projects I posted the link of yesterday http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip Mike I did get you have Express version only - we will find how to hadle that context. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:03:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > Shamil, > > Professional edition costs a fair amount. Given that I make no money > off of .Net (yet) I am unable to spend on it. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Well, we can try to get this project done with 2005 and 2008 versions of VS hopefully Standard and Prof. version would be both OK. > > > > The best of course would be to get VS2008 Prof. for everybody > > (Standard editions would also qualify if it compiles well test > > solutions and allow to design .NET Report Viewer reports - > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB)) > > > > If Standard Edition doesn't allow to edit .NET Report Viewer reports then those reports can be placed in classlib, and the team members with Prof. Editions will design reports, the other team members will design forms - that should be possible... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jwcolby > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > > solving > > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 00:05:48 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > > > >> The problem is that everyone needs to use the same environment. > >> The Express version's code won't run in VS and vice versa. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> > >> > >> William Hindman wrote: > >>> ...dl VS2008 Express for free instead ...you can't compile dlls or > >>> use add-ons with it but otherwise you should be able to > >>> contribute/participate without laying out a few hundred until > >>> you're certain its worthwhile for you. > >>> > >>> William > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------- > >>> From: "Mike Mattys" > >>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:37 PM > >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>> > >>>> I have neither. > >>>> I'll have to visit eBay > >>>> > >>>> - > >>>> Michael R Mattys > >>>> MapPoint and Database Dev > >>>> www.mattysconsulting.com > >>>> - > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Gustav Brock" > >>>> To: > >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:28 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> I have both VS2005 and VS2008 running, both in Standard version however. > >>>>> > >>>>> /gustav > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 01-03-2009 22:18:27 >>> > >>>>> Forwarded from Shamil who has some trouble with his AccessD mail account: > >>>>> > >>>>> *- > >>>>> > >>>>> Gustav and Mike do you have VS2005? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 13:11:00 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:11:00 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: <5AAE300AFD7041F9B4A4F5870249E650@Mattys> Message-ID: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: Error 1 The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace 'Microsoft' (are you missing an assembly reference?) C:\ ... nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 2 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 3 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 4 Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has been successfully built. 0 0 Warning 5 The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs 59 0 Warning 6 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. Warning 7 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be found. Doesn't look too serious! :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > Windows Update > Express SP1 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> Hi Shamil et al >> >> Here (great site, bookmark that): >> >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ >> >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express >> versions. >> The 2008 version can be found here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en >> >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the >> Express versions. >> According to this: >> >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx >> >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en >> >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. >> >> Could someone please check this out? >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> >> Hi Shamil >> >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> >> >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample >> solutions >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) >> >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also >> qualify as development evnironment. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 15:21:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:21:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> References: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team and everybody, My congratulation to the SCRUM team that we got 5 team members! I have made new versions of solutions and also MS SQL 2005 db model. Here are downloads: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip Here is the copy on another server: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnetdbs.zip You can find three solutions now: - one for VS2005; - another for VS2008; - third one targeted for C# 2008 Express but prepared with VS2008 Prof. (based on William words that C# 2008 Express can't compile classlibs I have just made small Winforms FE app and used classlibs compiled by VS2008 Prof). These "tricks" caused by different versions of VS we have. You can find that I moved placeholder forms and reports into classlibs to make projects configiration which will allow Mike to just develop a form in C# Express and use the forms and reports from classlibs we develop in full VS versions. I have also set references for ReportViewer control v.9 for VS2008 and C# Express 2008 targeted solutuons. Mike could you please test how they work now on your system? (Hope they will work OK, "fingers crossed"). Please Mike try to compile VS2008 targeted solution and C# 2008 targeted solution under C# 2008 Express. If the first will compile, build and run OK then classlibs with Forms and Reports could be merged back to FE. And having Express, Standard and Professioanl editions will not result in excessive manual synchronization work. Who can try to build VS2005 sample solution under VS 2005 Standard and/or VS2008 sample under VS2008 Standard edition to see they compile OK and thefore some of us can have Standard Editons and some of us can have Professional editions to work on this project? Compiled apps now have the following main executables. VS2005 or VS2008 Prof or Standard (maybe C# 2008 Express will work just find with VS2008 Prof. solution) ================================= NorthWind.NET.FE.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll C# 2008 Express (but compiled here under VS2008 Prof) ================= NorthWind.NET.FE.Express.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll - just classlib dll Guys, may I ask now you to decide which development environmnet to use - we seems to be moving to 2008 versions Express, Standard, Prof (Gustav, Mike, Doug, Shamil), but John has VS2005 version only and can't get 2008 version. What can we do? - I'd follow your decision - the issue with having 2005 and 2008 versions is that 2008 has some new C# language etc. features and therefore downgrading forms/reports developed in 2008 versions could be an issue - I have never tried to do that downgrade. Maybe you can try to test how it works and if it works well then we can safely (with a little additonal work) use both VS2005 and VS2008 versions. Of we all can use 2005 versions? Another issue with reports develped in 2008 versions - they expected to be quite different from 2005 versions (but 2005 versions could be upgraded to 2008 versions smoothly). Database model in the above download is a proposal - I have made some changes after upsizing tables. I didn't upsize any queries because most of them will be developed differently I expect. I have also added timestamp fields to all tables - almost never used them before, wanted to try to use them in this project - if you think they are not needed then we can remove it. Please note that SCRUMMaster role, which I have committed to for this project is not as a manager, mentor, director - this is a facilitator role IOW you as a team make the final decicions - I can participate in making such decisions because I have to share SCRUMMaster and developer roles in this project but my voice/vote shouldn't have any more "weight" that your votes/voices. To move steadily forward we have to make decisions every day - small, not time consuming - spending approx. 1 hour a working day for this project (for me it's not yet the case here for this project as I'm spending more time on it every day currently but that's OK for now. Hope you're not missing your main business working for this project...) ... Please be more active - if you wanted to do all the further preparatory work when we will start the project - let it be so - then we can start next week - it may take more time if we will not align/find a way how to work with different version of VS, how to share files etc. before we start actual development... I think decision on selecting of VS versions and that we can work and share sources with that selection should be done in advance - if it will not work OK we will not be able to make this project developed effectively... May I ask you to make decisions on: - VS versions you will use and how to solve some discrepancy if that will be 2005 and 2006 versions Express, Standard and Professional; - how we share/synchronize projects: current options: PopFly, MS Live SkyDrive, Google, (after all we can "synchronize" them by just exchanging source files)... We (you) will have to make some other decisions in preparation the project after the two above made/tested. I can participate in discussions but I'd prefer to be a kind of "lurker" for several days now because: - this is not SCRUMMaster responsibility to force the team to make decisions; - I have made quite some proposals already - it's your turn now :)... FYI: I have here an important deadline and I have to work intensively on another project for the next three-four days. Maybe we can/should shift the project start date for additonal week? - I can get back into active mode in the end of this week... For the next three-four days I will be able to spend only one-two hours max, for this project, and I wanted to install TargetProcess during this time and to give it to you to use in the beginning of the next week to define together ProductBacklog (features) and to plan the first SCRUM Sprint etc... Please ask questions if needed on VS versions and other issues and I will try to answer promptly... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:11:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December > Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) > Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > Error 1 > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > 'Microsoft' > (are you missing an assembly reference?) > C:\ ... > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 2 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 3 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 4 > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please > make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this > type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has > been successfully built. 0 0 > > Warning 5 > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > 59 0 > > Warning 6 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > Warning 7 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be > found. > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > > Windows Update > > Express SP1 > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > >> > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > >> > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > >> > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > >> versions. > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > >> > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > >> Express versions. > >> According to this: > >> > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > >> > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > >> > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > >> > >> Could someone please check this out? > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > >> Hi Shamil > >> > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > >> > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > >> solutions > >> > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > >> > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > >> qualify as development evnironment. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 15:28:42 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:28:42 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Message-ID: Hi Michael That is because Shamil has referenced the 2005 ReportViewer and not the 2008 (version 9.0.0.0). You can install that as well (that is what I have, that's why I didn't see any errors) but I think you should await a comment from Shamil. /gustav >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 20:11 >>> I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: Error 1 The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace 'Microsoft' (are you missing an assembly reference?) C:\ ... nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 2 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 3 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 4 Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has been successfully built. 0 0 Warning 5 The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs 59 0 Warning 6 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. Warning 7 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be found. Doesn't look too serious! :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > Windows Update > Express SP1 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> Hi Shamil et al >> >> Here (great site, bookmark that): >> >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ >> >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express >> versions. >> The 2008 version can be found here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en >> >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the >> Express versions. >> According to this: >> >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx >> >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en >> >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. >> >> Could someone please check this out? >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> >> Hi Shamil >> >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> >> >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample >> solutions >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) >> >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also >> qualify as development evnironment. >> From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 15:31:41 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:31:41 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Here (great site, bookmark that): > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ Yes, Gustav, I used it as one of the main sources while developing .NET ReportViewer Control reports. > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > Could someone please check this out? Mike? Could you please test? Do you need for that testing very simple project with just one placeholder WinForm and .NET ReportViewer control placeholder report - I can make it in VS2008 Prof. BTW, you can make such simple report by combining several sources from sample projects I have posted here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip with copy here: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:29:09 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Shamil et al > > Here (great site, bookmark that): > > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express versions. > The 2008 version can be found here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the Express versions. > According to this: > > http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > Could someone please check this out? > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > Hi Shamil > > They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample solutions > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also qualify as development evnironment. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:00:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:00:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, Yes, Gustav, I commented on that issue in my previous message and I posted links on new projects with 2008 versions referencing 2008 ReporViewer control I beleive. Maybe I'm pushing to go too quickly? Let's slow down - add another week (or more) for infrastructure preparation? Here is the link for a very simple VS2008 Prof. solution with one form and embedded reporViewer control (2008 version (9) I believe): http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/sse2008.zip and copy here: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/sse2008.zip They are prepared and compiled under VS2008. Gustav, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? If in both cases build, compile and run will be OK then we're almost done with defining how to handle VS versions differences. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:28:42 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Michael > > That is because Shamil has referenced the 2005 ReportViewer and not the 2008 (version 9.0.0.0). > > You can install that as well (that is what I have, that's why I didn't see any errors) but I think you should await a comment from Shamil. > > /gustav > > >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 20:11 >>> > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December > Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) > Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > Error 1 > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > 'Microsoft' > (are you missing an assembly reference?) > C:\ ... > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 2 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 3 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 4 > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please > make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this > type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has > been successfully built. 0 0 > > Warning 5 > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > 59 0 > > Warning 6 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > Warning 7 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be > found. > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > > Windows Update > > Express SP1 > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > >> > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > >> > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > >> > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > >> versions. > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > >> > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > >> Express versions. > >> According to this: > >> > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > >> > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > >> > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > >> > >> Could someone please check this out? > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > >> Hi Shamil > >> > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > >> > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > >> solutions > >> > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > >> > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > >> qualify as development evnironment. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:04:43 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:04:43 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <<< Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? >>> Sorry, Mike, I wanted to ask you to test this sample project compiling, building and running it under C# 2008 Express. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:00:03 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi All, > > Yes, Gustav, I commented on that issue in my previous message and I posted links on new projects with 2008 versions referencing 2008 ReporViewer control I beleive. > > Maybe I'm pushing to go too quickly? > Let's slow down - add another week (or more) for infrastructure preparation? > > Here is the link for a very simple VS2008 Prof. solution with one form and embedded reporViewer control (2008 version (9) I believe): > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/sse2008.zip > > and copy here: > > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/sse2008.zip > > They are prepared and compiled under VS2008. > > Gustav, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? > > Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? > > If in both cases build, compile and run will be OK then we're almost done with defining how to handle VS versions differences. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:28:42 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > Hi Michael > > > > That is because Shamil has referenced the 2005 ReportViewer and not the 2008 (version 9.0.0.0). > > > > You can install that as well (that is what I have, that's why I didn't see any errors) but I think you should await a comment from Shamil. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 20:11 >>> > > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December > > Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) > > Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > > Error 1 > > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > > 'Microsoft' > > (are you missing an assembly reference?) > > C:\ ... > > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > > [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > > > Warning 2 > > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > > > Warning 3 > > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > > > Warning 4 > > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please > > make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this > > type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has > > been successfully built. 0 0 > > > > Warning 5 > > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > > 59 0 > > > > Warning 6 > > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > > > Warning 7 > > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be > > found. > > > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > > > Windows Update > > > Express SP1 > > > > > > - > > > Michael R Mattys > > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > - > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > > >> > > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > > >> > > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > >> > > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > > >> versions. > > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > > >> > > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > >> > > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > > >> Express versions. > > >> According to this: > > >> > > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > >> > > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > >> > > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > >> > > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > >> > > >> Could someone please check this out? > > >> > > >> /gustav > > >> > > >> > > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > > >> Hi Shamil > > >> > > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > > >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > > >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > >> > > >> /gustav > > >> > > >> > > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > >> > > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > > >> solutions > > >> > > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > >> > > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > > >> qualify as development evnironment. > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 16:20:53 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:20:53 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. Still have errors. Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week or a month. This is my first jump. Let's just do it. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > <<< > Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? >>>> > Sorry, Mike, I wanted to ask you to test this sample project compiling, > building and running it under C# 2008 Express. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 16:27:16 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:27:16 -0000 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> >> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week or a month. Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. Who you gonna call! Max -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. Still have errors. Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week or a month. This is my first jump. Let's just do it. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 16:30:24 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:30:24 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <60998F538CBB42B7BABEF1E44D5F60F3@Mattys> Denis Sherman? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design >>> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > or a month. > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > Who you gonna call! > > > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > programming issues. > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 16:33:50 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:33:50 -0000 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: <60998F538CBB42B7BABEF1E44D5F60F3@Mattys> References: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> <60998F538CBB42B7BABEF1E44D5F60F3@Mattys> Message-ID: <49ac5ecd.0aa5660a.21de.ffff9608@mx.google.com> No, Ghost Busters! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys Sent: 02 March 2009 22:30 To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Denis Sherman? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design >>> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > or a month. > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > Who you gonna call! > > > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > programming issues. > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:34:57 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:34:57 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> References: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> Message-ID: :) -----Original Message----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:27:16 -0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > >> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > or a month. > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > Who you gonna call! > > > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > programming issues. > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 16:37:38 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:37:38 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: When I say I have errors, I mean when I press the Print Sales Report [Sales By Category] button. I used the exe also and got the same error. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:04 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> >> <<< >> Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 >> Standard? >>>>> >> Sorry, Mike, I wanted to ask you to test this sample project compiling, >> building and running it under C# 2008 Express. >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:59:44 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:59:44 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, I have to go to bed - it's 1:50a.m. here and tomorrow at around 7:30a.m. I have to drive my son to school: Let's me summarize current status of development tools of team members: - Gustav - VS2008 Standard - compiles OK VS2008 Prof. solutions with Report Viewer Control, can edit .rdlc reports in desigh mode - Doug - VS2008 Prof - OK; - Mike - C# 2008 Express Edition - still unclear is that version ready to be used to design reports but it should be ready to design forms - so probably we can have Mike designing forms and testing. - John - VS2005 Standard - no yet feedback how well this version compiles sample solution prepared using VS2005 Prof. John could you please test that by downloading samples from: this link http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip or this link http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip ? - Shamil - VS2005 Prof or VS2008 Prof. - both OK. ==== Does everybody have MS SQL 2005 Express or MS SQL 2005. MS SQL 2008 should be OK also. I have both MS SQL 2005 Express and Prof. versions - the backup I posted here http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip can be used with any of them. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:34:57 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:27:16 -0000 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > >> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > > or a month. > > > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > > Who you gonna call! > > > > > > > > Max > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > > programming issues. > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > > Still have errors. > > > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > > whether you give me a week or a month. > > > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 2 17:16:12 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:16:12 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:32 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Here (great site, bookmark that): > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ Yes, Gustav, I used it as one of the main sources while developing .NET ReportViewer Control reports. > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > Could someone please check this out? Mike? Could you please test? Do you need for that testing very simple project with just one placeholder WinForm and .NET ReportViewer control placeholder report - I can make it in VS2008 Prof. BTW, you can make such simple report by combining several sources from sample projects I have posted here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip with copy here: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:29:09 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Shamil et al > > Here (great site, bookmark that): > > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express versions. > The 2008 version can be found here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5 > -4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the Express versions. > According to this: > > http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-vi > ewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206 > -4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > Could someone please check this out? > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > Hi Shamil > > They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following > sample solutions > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also qualify as development evnironment. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 17:42:03 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:42:03 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> Thanks, Charlotte. I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) > to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express > versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support > add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. > > Charlotte Foust From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 20:04:18 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:04:18 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> Message-ID: VS2008 Pro w/MSDN ordered and overnighted. Still room on my belt to tighten ... if need be. :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Thanks, Charlotte. > I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlotte Foust" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) >> to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express >> versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support >> add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. >> >> Charlotte Foust > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Mar 2 21:11:33 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 19:11:33 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: References: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> Message-ID: <15AAAB37E3FF434C851C0A0F579EF3E8@murphy3234aaf1> I downloaded the files and the VS2008 version built fine. Is the Northwind database the regular Northwind file from Microsoft? If so I already have it installed for SQL Server 2005. Thank you all for allowing me to participate. This will be a learning experience for me. My recent coding background is VBA and VB.Net. C# seems readable but I have never built anything in it. Doug -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:22 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Hi SCRUM team and everybody, My congratulation to the SCRUM team that we got 5 team members! I have made new versions of solutions and also MS SQL 2005 db model. Here are downloads: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip Here is the copy on another server: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnetdbs.zip You can find three solutions now: - one for VS2005; - another for VS2008; - third one targeted for C# 2008 Express but prepared with VS2008 Prof. (based on William words that C# 2008 Express can't compile classlibs I have just made small Winforms FE app and used classlibs compiled by VS2008 Prof). These "tricks" caused by different versions of VS we have. You can find that I moved placeholder forms and reports into classlibs to make projects configiration which will allow Mike to just develop a form in C# Express and use the forms and reports from classlibs we develop in full VS versions. I have also set references for ReportViewer control v.9 for VS2008 and C# Express 2008 targeted solutuons. Mike could you please test how they work now on your system? (Hope they will work OK, "fingers crossed"). Please Mike try to compile VS2008 targeted solution and C# 2008 targeted solution under C# 2008 Express. If the first will compile, build and run OK then classlibs with Forms and Reports could be merged back to FE. And having Express, Standard and Professioanl editions will not result in excessive manual synchronization work. Who can try to build VS2005 sample solution under VS 2005 Standard and/or VS2008 sample under VS2008 Standard edition to see they compile OK and thefore some of us can have Standard Editons and some of us can have Professional editions to work on this project? Compiled apps now have the following main executables. VS2005 or VS2008 Prof or Standard (maybe C# 2008 Express will work just find with VS2008 Prof. solution) ================================= NorthWind.NET.FE.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll C# 2008 Express (but compiled here under VS2008 Prof) ================= NorthWind.NET.FE.Express.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll - just classlib dll Guys, may I ask now you to decide which development environmnet to use - we seems to be moving to 2008 versions Express, Standard, Prof (Gustav, Mike, Doug, Shamil), but John has VS2005 version only and can't get 2008 version. What can we do? - I'd follow your decision - the issue with having 2005 and 2008 versions is that 2008 has some new C# language etc. features and therefore downgrading forms/reports developed in 2008 versions could be an issue - I have never tried to do that downgrade. Maybe you can try to test how it works and if it works well then we can safely (with a little additonal work) use both VS2005 and VS2008 versions. Of we all can use 2005 versions? Another issue with reports develped in 2008 versions - they expected to be quite different from 2005 versions (but 2005 versions could be upgraded to 2008 versions smoothly). Database model in the above download is a proposal - I have made some changes after upsizing tables. I didn't upsize any queries because most of them will be developed differently I expect. I have also added timestamp fields to all tables - almost never used them before, wanted to try to use them in this project - if you think they are not needed then we can remove it. Please note that SCRUMMaster role, which I have committed to for this project is not as a manager, mentor, director - this is a facilitator role IOW you as a team make the final decicions - I can participate in making such decisions because I have to share SCRUMMaster and developer roles in this project but my voice/vote shouldn't have any more "weight" that your votes/voices. To move steadily forward we have to make decisions every day - small, not time consuming - spending approx. 1 hour a working day for this project (for me it's not yet the case here for this project as I'm spending more time on it every day currently but that's OK for now. Hope you're not missing your main business working for this project...) ... Please be more active - if you wanted to do all the further preparatory work when we will start the project - let it be so - then we can start next week - it may take more time if we will not align/find a way how to work with different version of VS, how to share files etc. before we start actual development... I think decision on selecting of VS versions and that we can work and share sources with that selection should be done in advance - if it will not work OK we will not be able to make this project developed effectively... May I ask you to make decisions on: - VS versions you will use and how to solve some discrepancy if that will be 2005 and 2006 versions Express, Standard and Professional; - how we share/synchronize projects: current options: PopFly, MS Live SkyDrive, Google, (after all we can "synchronize" them by just exchanging source files)... We (you) will have to make some other decisions in preparation the project after the two above made/tested. I can participate in discussions but I'd prefer to be a kind of "lurker" for several days now because: - this is not SCRUMMaster responsibility to force the team to make decisions; - I have made quite some proposals already - it's your turn now :)... FYI: I have here an important deadline and I have to work intensively on another project for the next three-four days. Maybe we can/should shift the project start date for additonal week? - I can get back into active mode in the end of this week... For the next three-four days I will be able to spend only one-two hours max, for this project, and I wanted to install TargetProcess during this time and to give it to you to use in the beginning of the next week to define together ProductBacklog (features) and to plan the first SCRUM Sprint etc... Please ask questions if needed on VS versions and other issues and I will try to answer promptly... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:11:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December Also > installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) Continued > installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > Error 1 > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > 'Microsoft' > (are you missing an assembly reference?) C:\ ... > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryRep > ort.Designer.cs [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 2 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly > exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may > get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 3 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly > exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may > get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 4 > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. > Please make sure that the assembly that contains this type is > referenced. If this type is a part of your development project, make > sure that the project has been successfully built. 0 0 > > Warning 5 > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCatego > ryReport.Designer.cs > 59 0 > > Warning 6 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > Warning 7 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not > be found. > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> Windows Update Express > > SP1 > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > >> > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > >> > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > >> > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the > >> Express versions. > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-6 > >> 1E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > >> > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in > >> the Express versions. > >> According to this: > >> > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report > >> -viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > >> > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c > >> 206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > >> > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > >> > >> Could someone please check this out? > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > >> Hi Shamil > >> > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is > >> running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and > >> reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > >> > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following > >> sample solutions > >> > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > >> > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > >> qualify as development evnironment. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 00:18:32 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:18:32 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> References: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> Message-ID: Chercher la femme! :) (And you'll get convinced/inspired to get VS2008 Prof. I mean :)) Thank you, Charlotte. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:42:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Thanks, Charlotte. > I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlotte Foust" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) > > to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express > > versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support > > add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 01:10:18 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:10:18 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Mike! > Still room on my belt to tighten ... if need be. :) The same here :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:04:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > VS2008 Pro w/MSDN ordered and overnighted. > Still room on my belt to tighten ... if need be. :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:42 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Thanks, Charlotte. > > I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Charlotte Foust" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > > Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) > >> to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express > >> versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support > >> add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. > >> > >> Charlotte Foust > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 01:36:42 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:36:42 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) Doug: VS2008 Prof. John: VS2005 Standard Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. ==== Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? Any thoughts on that issue? Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 3 03:34:20 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John using the free Express edition no matter what. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> Hi Gustav at all, If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh the list of links to visit etc. Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). No, we do not need Add-ins I think. If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express solutiuon. I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed on the same PC? I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip (copy http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) The above archives have: - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 Report Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be fine for. > Could you explain that please? > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those capable of that? > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > Hi All, > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: VS2005 Standard > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > ==== > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 04:09:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:09:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav at all, OK. We have somebody to test soltuion for C# 2008 Express - the ones I posted here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip then we can see what arhcitecture the sample project shoudl have to let John cooperate having just C# 2008 Express. Maybe there is somewhere VMWare VM with Windows XP (or other WIndows OS) and C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express - then I can use such VM here over weekend to test. We probably need one more week for preparation of John's environmnet to fit the other team members? John? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> > > Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John using the free Express edition no matter what. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> > > Hi Gustav at all, > > If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh the list of links to visit etc. > Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). > > No, we do not need Add-ins I think. > > If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express solutiuon. > > I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? > > Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed on the same PC? > > I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. > > For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > (copy > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) > > The above archives have: > > - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; > > - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 Report > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi Shamil > > > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be fine for. > > Could you explain that please? > > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those capable of that? > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > > Hi All, > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > John: VS2005 Standard > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > ==== > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 09:07:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:07:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, I have got VMMare Server running on my Vista Ultimate PC with one WinXP Sp2 VM. The issue is that Vista doesn't see this XP VM, and XP VM doesn't see the Vista host/outer world. Do you have any info how to tune WMWare Server network settings (using "Manage Virual Networks" feature?) to get it visible from Vista host and vice versa? I have also got downloaded "All-in-one-CD" for All 2008 Express Editions, and I have got ReportViewer 2008 Control redistrubutables. If nobody will have ready to use C# 2008 Express environment to test these samples: > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip then I will try to test them over weekend installing C# 2008 Express on WinXP VM to see what architecture our project should have to have a team member with only C# 2008 Express working with us having VS2008 Standard or Prof. editions. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:09:12 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi Gustav at all, > > OK. > > We have somebody to test soltuion for C# 2008 Express - the ones I posted here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > then we can see what arhcitecture the sample project shoudl have to let John cooperate having just C# 2008 Express. > > Maybe there is somewhere VMWare VM with Windows XP (or other WIndows OS) and C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express - then I can use such VM here over weekend to test. > > We probably need one more week for preparation of John's environmnet to fit the other team members? > > John? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi Shamil > > > > < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> > > > > Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John using the free Express edition no matter what. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> > > > > Hi Gustav at all, > > > > If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh the list of links to visit etc. > > Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). > > > > No, we do not need Add-ins I think. > > > > If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express solutiuon. > > > > I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? > > > > Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed on the same PC? > > > > I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. > > > > For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): > > > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > (copy > > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) > > > > The above archives have: > > > > - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; > > > > - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 Report > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Hi Shamil > > > > > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > > > > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be fine for. > > > Could you explain that please? > > > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those capable of that? > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > > John: VS2005 Standard > > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > > ==== > > > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? > > > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 10:28:40 2009 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:28:40 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shamil, Generally the network errors may be due to the settings in your VM for the nic card. The settings are to set the nic as Bridged, NAT or Host-Only. Setting as Bridge makes the VM act like a standalone pc where you can communicate from your host to the guest and the guest back to the host as if each was it's own hardware pc. Setting it as NAT, then you have essentially a firewall on the guest pc and you can't reach it from the host you can only go from guest to host. Host-Only is a nice feature in that the guest pc can only talk to the host. The host pc will be able to work as normal, and will also have access to the guest pc via the network. my typical settings are to setup vm workstations as bridged. btw, I was reading through this thread and while I am not familiar enough with C# I'd like to observe the project as I know I'd learn a great deal from it. I do have VS2008 std. -Francisco http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... 2009/3/3 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Hi Gustav at all, > > OK. > > We have somebody to test soltuion for C# 2008 Express - the ones I posted > here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > then we can see what arhcitecture the sample project shoudl have to let > John cooperate having just C# 2008 Express. > > Maybe there is somewhere VMWare VM with Windows XP (or other WIndows OS) > and C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express - then I can use such VM here over > weekend to test. > > We probably need one more week for preparation of John's environmnet to fit > the other team members? > > John? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > - Show quoted text - > To: > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi Shamil > > > > < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> > > > > Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to > qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send > from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John > using the free Express edition no matter what. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> > > > > Hi Gustav at all, > > > > If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that > would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one > hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh > the list of links to visit etc. > > Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? > (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). > > > > No, we do not need Add-ins I think. > > > > If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we > can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll > and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express > solutiuon. > > > > I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? > > > > Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express > plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed > on the same PC? > > > > I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib > with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. > > > > For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some > fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): > > > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > (copy > > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) > > > > The above archives have: > > > > - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one > of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; > > > > - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 > Report > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Hi Shamil > > > > > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the > developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > > > > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really > is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be > fine for. > > > Could you explain that please? > > > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those > capable of that? > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > > John: VS2005 Standard > > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > > ==== > > > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 > Standard? > > > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If > more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 3 11:10:06 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:10:06 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: The version I purchased is product UEH-00006 If necessary, I could upgrade with some help. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:36 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi All, > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: VS2005 Standard > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > ==== > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 > Standard? > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more > can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From paul.hartland at googlemail.com Wed Mar 4 04:04:54 2009 From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:04:54 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic Message-ID: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> To all, Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : usp_MyStoredProcedure ( @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), @dtiJobDate [datetime], @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) ) AS BEGIN DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT UPDATE dbo.MyTable SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND ( @nvcCode = 'A' OR @nvcCode = 'N' ) AND ( AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR AvailabilityCode= 'N' ) SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, @nvcPayroll SELECT * FROM MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll END If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I have a simple piece of VB code as below: Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then DE.Conn.Open Endif Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") msgbox rs.fields(0) DE.Conn.Close ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding to the requested name or ordinal. However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT statement it returns the resultset. Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. Thanks in advance for any help on this.... -- Paul Hartland paul.hartland at googlemail.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 04:39:47 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 13:39:47 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?Q2FuJ3QgR2V0IFNlbGVjdCBSZXN1bHRzIEluIFZpc3Vh?= =?koi8-r?b?bCBCYXNpYw==?= In-Reply-To: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, Try to put SET NOCOUNT ON before DECLARE statement. HTH -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hartland To: Access List ,VisualBasicList ,SQLServerList Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:04:54 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic > To all, > > Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the > following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : > > usp_MyStoredProcedure > ( > @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), > @dtiJobDate [datetime], > @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) > ) > AS > BEGIN > DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT > UPDATE dbo.MyTable > SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode > WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND > JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND > ( > @nvcCode = 'A' OR > @nvcCode = 'N' > ) AND > ( > AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR > AvailabilityCode= 'N' > ) > > SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT > DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) > SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, > @nvcPayroll > SELECT * > FROM MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > END > > If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM > MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I have > a simple piece of VB code as below: > > Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset > If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then > DE.Conn.Open > Endif > Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & > format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") > msgbox rs.fields(0) > > DE.Conn.Close > > ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server > > The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding to > the requested name or ordinal. > > However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT > statement it returns the resultset. > > Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. > > Thanks in advance for any help on this.... > > > > > > > -- > Paul Hartland > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 4 04:50:17 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:50:17 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic In-Reply-To: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AEE989.16930.1A61897@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've run into very similar problems trying to use conditional execution and multiple selects in a SP called through ODBC (in my case using the SQLTools ODBC library with PowerBasic). It appears to be a limitation of the ODBC/ADODB drivers. In the end I had to split the one SP which worked fine in SQL Server into several separate calls to simple SPs and handle the conditional stuff in my PB code between calls. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but I suspect you may have to end up doing the same. -- Stuart On 4 Mar 2009 at 10:04, Paul Hartland wrote: > To all, > > Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the > following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : > > usp_MyStoredProcedure > ( > @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), > @dtiJobDate [datetime], > @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) > ) > AS > BEGIN > DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT > UPDATE dbo.MyTable > SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode > WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND > JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND > ( > @nvcCode = 'A' OR > @nvcCode = 'N' > ) AND > ( > AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR > AvailabilityCode= 'N' > ) > > SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT > DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) > SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, > @nvcPayroll > SELECT * > FROM MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > END > > If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM > MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I have > a simple piece of VB code as below: > > Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset > If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then > DE.Conn.Open > Endif > Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & > format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") > msgbox rs.fields(0) > > DE.Conn.Close > > ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server > > The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding to > the requested name or ordinal. > > However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT > statement it returns the resultset. > > Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. > > Thanks in advance for any help on this.... > > > > > > > -- > Paul Hartland > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at googlemail.com Wed Mar 4 04:56:29 2009 From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:56:29 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic In-Reply-To: References: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <38c884770903040256w607637bbhb05cbd7f0d7d5ff8@mail.gmail.com> DOH, Thank you very much for ending my nightmare, can't believe I missed that. Paul 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Hi Paul, > > Try to put > > SET NOCOUNT ON > > before DECLARE > > statement. > > HTH > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Hartland > To: Access List ,VisualBasicList < > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>,SQLServerList < > dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:04:54 +0000 > Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic > > > To all, > > > > Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the > > following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : > > > > usp_MyStoredProcedure > > ( > > @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), > > @dtiJobDate [datetime], > > @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) > > ) > > AS > > BEGIN > > DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT > > UPDATE dbo.MyTable > > SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode > > WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND > > JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND > > ( > > @nvcCode = 'A' OR > > @nvcCode = 'N' > > ) AND > > ( > > AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR > > AvailabilityCode= 'N' > > ) > > > > SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT > > DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 > > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > > INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) > > SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, > > @nvcPayroll > > SELECT * > > FROM MyTable2 > > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > > END > > > > If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM > > MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I > have > > a simple piece of VB code as below: > > > > Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset > > If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then > > DE.Conn.Open > > Endif > > Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & > > format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") > > msgbox rs.fields(0) > > > > DE.Conn.Close > > > > ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server > > > > The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding > to > > the requested name or ordinal. > > > > However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT > > statement it returns the resultset. > > > > Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. > > > > Thanks in advance for any help on this.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Paul Hartland > > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Paul Hartland paul.hartland at googlemail.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 4 16:34:45 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:34:45 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: <62B0851A80E642D0923A2365152D591C@Mattys> Hi Shamil, I am installing 'as we speak.' I can use the extra week because I just got a good size project. Thank you also! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Mike Mattys" Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:25 PM Subject: Re[2]: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Please see first my previous message concerning C# Express 2008 tests. > Based on that tests' results our team can now use 2008 versions: > > C# 2008 Express, VS2008 Standard and VS 2008 Prof: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: C# 2008 Express > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. > > Please approve that. > > Thank you Mike for your purchasing of VS2008 Prof. > Thank you all for your help with testing sample projects. > > I must say I spent quite some time during this week to prepare different > configurations or test projects, to make VMWAre installation on Vista > Ultimate, to download and burn setup disks, to run setups and compile, > build and run tests. > > That was a long way to get the current good result. > Witt nowaday knowledge I'd go shorter way, namely: > > - make very simple VS2008 Winforms project with placeholder sample > ReportViewer control report; > - install VMWare Player 2.x on Vista or better just use VMWare Server > installed on my another development PC; > - download "All-in-One" Express CD and ReportViewer Control > Redistributables SP1; > - install C# 2008 Express and ReportViewer Redist. on Win XP SP2 VM; > - copy simple sample project to VM and test it to see that it works OK; > > --- > That shorter way would have saved me a couple+ of working days. > --- > Lessons learned. Some other byside results achieved during the above > tests. > --- > We can start working on project now when Mike will get hist VS2008 Prof,. > will install it and play with it a little, and when John will get C# 2008 > Express installed. > --- > I'd propose now to shift project start for one week to 16th of March. The > reason for me is that I have spent quite some time on this work during > thsi week, and I have urgent project to work on very intensively. > The reason for Mike and John could be to adpat a little bit to VS 2008 > Prof and C# 2008 Express. > I'd also need to setup TargetProcess - and that isn't straightforward as > this shoudl be manual installation first tested on local PC and then > deployed on my ASP.NET hosting. I wanted also to make some > setup/adjustmentd on SCRUM at Extreme web site. > And we also have to find a way how to share/synchronize our source code: > Coudl you please look at - http://www.gladinet.com/ - I have it installed > here and it allows to use MS Live SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer, > the same coudl be done for Google Docs and some other (Free) Internet > Storage providers... > Even with shifted project start date we can discuss during the next week > how to organize the source code within the solution, and the related > issues... > > Please post your thoughts/proposals here. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:10:06 -0500 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > >> The version I purchased is product UEH-00006 >> If necessary, I could upgrade with some help. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning >> Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:36 AM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have >> >> >> > Hi All, >> > >> > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: >> > >> > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard >> > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) >> > Doug: VS2008 Prof. >> > John: VS2005 Standard >> > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. >> > ==== >> > >> > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 >> > Standard? >> > >> > Any thoughts on that issue? >> > >> > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If >> > more >> > can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 16:45:06 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 01:45:06 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent form/report as grids/tables. The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period of time than the other "ligher" ones... This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of Product Backlog Entries. Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent as possible. Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by time and space? Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the below BackLog if you see some issues with it. N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole responsibility of ProductOwner.... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Product Backlog Forms ==== 1. Categories 2. Customer Labels Dialog 3. Customer Orders 4. Customer Orders Subform1 5. Customer Orders Subform2 6. Customer Phone List 7. Customers 8. Employees 9. Main Switchboard 10. Orders 11. Orders Subform 12. Product List 13. Products 14. Quarterly Orders 15. Quarterly Orders Subform 16. Sales Analysis 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 19. Sales by Year Dialog 20. Sales Reports Dialog 21. Startup 22. Suppliers Reports ===== 1. Alphabetical List of Products 2. Catalog 3. Catalog Subreport 4. Customer Labels 5. Employee Sales by Country 6. Invoice 7. Products by Category 8. Sales by Category 9. Sales by Category Subreport 10. Sales by Year 11. Sales by Year Subreport 12. Sales Totals by Amount 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter 14. Summary of Sales by Year From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 17:35:13 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:35:13 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?IFJlWzJdOiBTY3J1bSAmIEMjIC0gVlMgdmVyc2lvbnMg?= =?koi8-r?b?d2UgaGF2ZQ==?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Today I have tested C# 2008 Express with VS2008 Prof. solution, which you have got downloaded from http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip that was the solution named NorthWind.NET.VS2008 - usual VS2008 solution with WinForms FE project, console project and several class library projects. One of the classlibs has also ReportViewer control and .rdlc placeholder report. That solutuon wascompiled, built and run OK. I have done C# 2008 Express installation from "All-in-One" Express CD freely available on MS site http://www.microsoft.com/express/download/offline.aspx I have also installed Microsoft Report Viewer Redistributable 2005 Service Pack 1 http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=82833F27-081D-4B72-83EF-2836360A904D&displaylang=en The above installations were done of a Win XP2 SP2 without .NET Framework. Recap: 1) C# 2008 Express compiles, builds and runs well VS2008 Prof. Solutions with several source projects and source class libraries http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express1.jpg 2) C# 2008 Express does need additionally MS Report Viewer Redistributable Service Pack 1 installation to run ReportViewer control reports http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express2.jpg 3) C# 2008 setup installs quite some other prerequisites http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express.jpg BUT 4) C# 2008 Express *does not* have design mode for ReportView Control reports - .rdlc files - they have to be edited manually as text(XML) files within solution. 5) C# Express doesn't have debug/release modes but still code can be debugged ===================== Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:10:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > The version I purchased is product UEH-00006 > If necessary, I could upgrade with some help. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:36 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > Hi All, > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > John: VS2005 Standard > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > ==== > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 > > Standard? > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more > > can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 17:36:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:36:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Please see first my previous message concerning C# Express 2008 tests. Based on that tests' results our team can now use 2008 versions: C# 2008 Express, VS2008 Standard and VS 2008 Prof: Gustav: VS2008 Standard Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) Doug: VS2008 Prof. John: C# 2008 Express Shamil: VS2008 Prof. Please approve that. Thank you Mike for your purchasing of VS2008 Prof. Thank you all for your help with testing sample projects. I must say I spent quite some time during this week to prepare different configurations or test projects, to make VMWAre installation on Vista Ultimate, to download and burn setup disks, to run setups and compile, build and run tests. That was a long way to get the current good result. Witt nowaday knowledge I'd go shorter way, namely: - make very simple VS2008 Winforms project with placeholder sample ReportViewer control report; - install VMWare Player 2.x on Vista or better just use VMWare Server installed on my another development PC; - download "All-in-One" Express CD and ReportViewer Control Redistributables SP1; - install C# 2008 Express and ReportViewer Redist. on Win XP SP2 VM; - copy simple sample project to VM and test it to see that it works OK; --- That shorter way would have saved me a couple+ of working days. --- Lessons learned. Some other byside results achieved during the above tests. --- We can start working on project now when Mike will get hist VS2008 Prof,. will install it and play with it a little, and when John will get C# 2008 Express installed. --- I'd propose now to shift project start for one week to 16th of March. The reason for me is that I have spent quite some time on this work during thsi week, and I have urgent project to work on very intensively. The reason for Mike and John could be to adpat a little bit to VS 2008 Prof and C# 2008 Express. I'd also need to setup TargetProcess - and that isn't straightforward as this shoudl be manual installation first tested on local PC and then deployed on my ASP.NET hosting. I wanted also to make some setup/adjustmentd on SCRUM at Extreme web site. And we also have to find a way how to share/synchronize our source code: Coudl you please look at - http://www.gladinet.com/ - I have it installed here and it allows to use MS Live SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer, the same coudl be done for Google Docs and some other (Free) Internet Storage providers... Even with shifted project start date we can discuss during the next week how to organize the source code within the solution, and the related issues... Please post your thoughts/proposals here. Thank you. -- Shamil From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 4 20:28:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:28:58 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: <62B0851A80E642D0923A2365152D591C@Mattys> Message-ID: <0457C88B5BCA4FA588E242678DF59EC8@Mattys> Ha! Figures. I get VS2008 installed, go out and return from dinner ... Upon starting the program, I'm taken immediately to 10-4 Episode 2: Welcome to Visual Studio 2010 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" Cc: "dba-VB" Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil, > > I am installing 'as we speak.' > I can use the extra week because I just got a good size project. > Thank you also! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 00:10:53 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 09:10:53 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Francesco, Thank you for your replay. The following is just for information. I have got installed VMWare Player v.2.x I managed VM to see outer world (local LAN PCs) and the Internet. But VM still can't access Vista's shares, and Vista's shares *are* accessable from other PCs in the LAN. Vista host can't access guest VM's shares but those shares *are* accessable from other PCs in the LAN. VMWare Player doesn't seem to have any tools to tune VM Network configuration. I have checked Vista's firewall - it allow VMWare player to access host. I currently decided to leave it as it's - I have posted a message in VMWare community with the question how to tune VMWare Player for its guest VM to see the host shares. No definitive advises yet. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Francisco Tapia To: Salakhetdinov Shamil Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:38:59 -0800 Subject: Re: Re[2]: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Shamil, I was referring to the nic configurations within the VM workstation > application. you should see under the settings for the VM the different > types of NICs you can use. the VM Network Configuration utility is more for > fine tuning things like IP ranges or adding additional nics that you want to > behave in a different way... my case I have a wifi and a LAN nic. so I have > my wifi be the bridge nic and the WIFI be the NAT, it's the way I chose to > configure it but you can do so any which way you want. > > > -Francisco > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > > 2009/3/3 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > > > Hi Francisco, > > > > You're welcome to observe the project progress! > > > > Thank for your information on VMWare. > > It should be easy to fix I guess but I must say it's not clear yet here how > > to do that: > > > > Maybe from the following info from my "VMWare Manager Virtual Networks" > > form > > you can just point me what should be changed? (I must say I didn't read the > > VMWare docs): > > > > > > ===================================== > > [Summary] > > VMNet0 (Bridged) - Bridged to an automatically chosen Adapter - > > 255.255.255.255 > > VMNet1(Host-Only) - A private network shared with the host - 192.168.116.0 > > - Enabled > > VMNet8 (NAT) - Used to share the host's IP Address - 192.168.119.0 - > > Enabled > > > > [Automatic Bridging] > > [x] Automatically choose an available physical netwrok adapter to bridge to > > VMNet0 > > > > Excluded Adapters (Do not attempt to Bridge to teh following adapters) > > - Interl(R) Pro/Wireless... > > - Broadcom 440x 10/100 Integrated Controler > > - Blutooth Device (Personal Area Network) > > > > ? Maybe exclude some of them - I do use only wireless adapter to > > communicate with my LAN > > > > [Host Virtual Network Mapping] > > VMnet0 - Bridged to an automatically choses adapter > > VMnet1 - VMWare Network Adapter VMnet1 > > VMnet8 - VMWare Network Adapter VMnet8 > > > > [Host Virtual Adapters] > > VMWare Network Adapter VMNet1 - VMNet1 - Enabled > > VMWare Network Adapter VMNet8 - VMNet8 - Enabled > > > > [DHCP] > > VMNet1 - 192.168.116.0 - 255.255.255.0 - vmnet1 > > VMNet8 - 192.168.119.0 - 255.255.255.0 - vmnet8 > > > > [NAT] > > VMNet host: VMNet8 > > ======================================= > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > - Show quoted text - > > From: Francisco Tapia > > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:28:40 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Shamil, Generally the network errors may be due to the settings in your > > VM > > > for the nic card. The settings are to set the nic as Bridged, NAT or > > > Host-Only. Setting as Bridge makes the VM act like a standalone pc where > > > you can communicate from your host to the guest and the guest back to the > > > host as if each was it's own hardware pc. Setting it as NAT, then you > > have > > > essentially a firewall on the guest pc and you can't reach it from the > > host > > > you can only go from guest to host. Host-Only is a nice feature in that > > the > > > guest pc can only talk to the host. The host pc will be able to work as > > > normal, and will also have access to the guest pc via the network. > > > > > > my typical settings are to setup vm workstations as bridged. > > > > > > btw, I was reading through this thread and while I am not familiar enough > > > with C# I'd like to observe the project as I know I'd learn a great deal > > > from it. > > > > > > I do have VS2008 std. > > > > > > -Francisco > > > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > > > > > > > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 00:14:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 09:14:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: <0457C88B5BCA4FA588E242678DF59EC8@Mattys> References: <0457C88B5BCA4FA588E242678DF59EC8@Mattys> Message-ID: My congratulations, Mike! Yes, Visual Studio 10/.NET Framework 4 promise a lot of new features - by the time they will be released you should have already a good working skills of programming in .NET Framework using WinForms etc. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:28:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Ha! Figures. > > I get VS2008 installed, go out and return from dinner ... > > Upon starting the program, I'm taken immediately to > 10-4 Episode 2: Welcome to Visual Studio 2010 > > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > Cc: "dba-VB" > Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:34 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > Hi Shamil, > > > > I am installing 'as we speak.' > > I can use the extra week because I just got a good size project. > > Thank you also! > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 02:53:08 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 11:53:08 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zICB3ZSBoYXZl?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Sorry that was mistyping - of course I used 2008 ReportViewer SP1 Redistributables: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=BB196D5D-76C2-4A0E-9458-267D22B6AAC6&displaylang=en -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:39:33 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > That's a lot you have been through! So only one question: Why the 2005 version of Report Viewer Redistributable? > As we all run VS2008 in some version, the Report Viewer Redistributable 2008 SP1 is available. > > Microsoft Report Viewer 2008 SP1 Redistributable: > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=BB196D5D-76C2-4A0E-9458-267D22B6AAC6&displaylang=en > > The only reason I can think of is: > > > Required Software: > .NET Framework version 3.5 SP1: You must install the .NET Framework Redistributable Package version 3.5 SP1 prior to installing the Microsoft Report Viewer 2008 SP1 Redistributable > > > This means that the minimum OS to be used is Windows XP as .Net 3.5 is not for Windows 2000, but is that an issue? Will we be programming for .Net 2.0 and Windows 2000? > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-03-2009 00:35 >>> > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Today I have tested C# 2008 Express with VS2008 Prof. solution, which you have got downloaded from > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > that was the solution named NorthWind.NET.VS2008 - usual VS2008 solution with WinForms FE project, console project and several class library projects. One of the classlibs has also ReportViewer control and .rdlc placeholder report. > > That solutuon wascompiled, built and run OK. > > I have done C# 2008 Express installation from "All-in-One" Express CD freely available on MS site > > http://www.microsoft.com/express/download/offline.aspx > > I have also installed > > Microsoft Report Viewer Redistributable 2005 Service Pack 1 > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=82833F27-081D-4B72-83EF-2836360A904D&displaylang=en > > The above installations were done of a Win XP2 SP2 without .NET Framework. > > Recap: > 1) C# 2008 Express compiles, builds and runs well VS2008 Prof. Solutions with several source projects and source class libraries > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express1.jpg > > 2) C# 2008 Express does need additionally MS Report Viewer Redistributable Service Pack 1 installation to run ReportViewer control reports > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express2.jpg > > 3) C# 2008 setup installs quite some other prerequisites > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express.jpg > > BUT > > 4) C# 2008 Express *does not* have design mode for ReportView Control reports - .rdlc files - they have to be edited manually as text(XML) files within solution. > > 5) C# Express doesn't have debug/release modes but still code can be debugged > ===================== > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 03:01:25 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:01:25 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, thank you. Yes, Gladinet looks interesting - I can use it with SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer. And it can mount my SkyDrive as logical device e.g. Z: It would be useful if Gladinet can somehow mount just public part of SkyDrive for all of us to use it as code vault for source code control... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:55:06 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > Approved. > Also, 16. March is fine for me. > > Gladinet looks quite interesting! > http://www.gladinet.com > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-03-2009 00:36 >>> > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Please see first my previous message concerning C# Express 2008 tests. > Based on that tests' results our team can now use 2008 versions: > > C# 2008 Express, VS2008 Standard and VS 2008 Prof: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: C# 2008 Express > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. > > Please approve that. > > Thank you Mike for your purchasing of VS2008 Prof. > Thank you all for your help with testing sample projects. > > I must say I spent quite some time during this week to prepare different configurations or test projects, to make VMWAre installation on Vista Ultimate, to download and burn setup disks, to run setups and compile, build and run tests. > > That was a long way to get the current good result. > Witt nowaday knowledge I'd go shorter way, namely: > > - make very simple VS2008 Winforms project with placeholder sample ReportViewer control report; > - install VMWare Player 2.x on Vista or better just use VMWare Server installed on my another development PC; > - download "All-in-One" Express CD and ReportViewer Control Redistributables SP1; > - install C# 2008 Express and ReportViewer Redist. on Win XP SP2 VM; > - copy simple sample project to VM and test it to see that it works OK; > > --- > That shorter way would have saved me a couple+ of working days. > --- > Lessons learned. Some other byside results achieved during the above tests. > --- > We can start working on project now when Mike will get hist VS2008 Prof,. will install it and play with it a little, and when John will get C# 2008 Express installed. > --- > I'd propose now to shift project start for one week to 16th of March. The reason for me is that I have spent quite some time on this work during thsi week, and I have urgent project to work on very intensively. > The reason for Mike and John could be to adpat a little bit to VS 2008 Prof and C# 2008 Express. > I'd also need to setup TargetProcess - and that isn't straightforward as this shoudl be manual installation first tested on local PC and then deployed on my ASP.NET hosting. I wanted also to make some setup/adjustmentd on SCRUM at Extreme web site. > And we also have to find a way how to share/synchronize our source code: > Coudl you please look at - http://www.gladinet.com/ - I have it installed here and it allows to use MS Live SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer, the same coudl be done for Google Docs and some other (Free) Internet Storage providers... > Even with shifted project start date we can discuss during the next week how to organize the source code within the solution, and the related issues... > > Please post your thoughts/proposals here. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 6 10:53:28 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:53:28 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model Message-ID: Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > In .. .aspx.cs file: private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. Any suggestions? /gustav > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { IQueryable query; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { query = from Location location in this.Location where location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) select location; } else { query = from Location location in this.Location select location; } return (query as ObjectQuery); } } *** From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 7 08:27:15 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:27:15 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model Message-ID: Hi all I finally found out how to return Location rather than anonymous types: public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { ObjectQuery locationByOwner; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { locationByOwner = Location .Where("it.Owner.Id = @ownerId", new ObjectParameter ("ownerId", _locationFilterOwner.Id)); } else { locationByOwner = Location; } return locationByOwner; } } Now, how could I use the object Owner as parameter and not Owner.Id? This is not accepted: .Where("it.Owner = @owner", new ObjectParameter ("owner", _locationFilterOwner)); as only scalar values are accepted as parameter values. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 06-03-2009 17:53 >>> Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > In .. .aspx.cs file: private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. Any suggestions? /gustav > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { IQueryable query; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { query = from Location location in this.Location where location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) select location; } else { query = from Location location in this.Location select location; } return (query as ObjectQuery); } } *** From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 7 08:41:25 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:41:25 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model Message-ID: Hi all Also, the fill method is now vastly reduced. protected void OwnerDropDownList_Init(object sender, EventArgs e) { LocationDropDownList.DataValueField = "Id"; LocationDropDownList.DataTextField = "Location1"; } private void FillLocationDropDownList() { LocationDropDownList.DataSource = _erhvervslejeContext.LocationByOwnerQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 07-03-2009 15:27 >>> Hi all I finally found out how to return Location rather than anonymous types: public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { ObjectQuery locationByOwner; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { locationByOwner = Location .Where("it.Owner.Id = @ownerId", new ObjectParameter ("ownerId", _locationFilterOwner.Id)); } else { locationByOwner = Location; } return locationByOwner; } } Now, how could I use the object Owner as parameter and not Owner.Id? This is not accepted: .Where("it.Owner = @owner", new ObjectParameter ("owner", _locationFilterOwner)); as only scalar values are accepted as parameter values. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 06-03-2009 17:53 >>> Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > In .. .aspx.cs file: private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. Any suggestions? /gustav > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { IQueryable query; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { query = from Location location in this.Location where location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) select location; } else { query = from Location location in this.Location select location; } return (query as ObjectQuery); } } *** From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 9 16:23:58 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:23:58 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?QURPLk5FVCBFbnRpdHkgTW9kZWw=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Thank you for your information on ADO.NET Entity Model. I must say I personally haven't yet tried to use it... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:41:25 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model > Hi all > > Also, the fill method is now vastly reduced. > > protected void OwnerDropDownList_Init(object sender, EventArgs e) > { > LocationDropDownList.DataValueField = "Id"; > LocationDropDownList.DataTextField = "Location1"; > } > > private void FillLocationDropDownList() > { > LocationDropDownList.DataSource = _erhvervslejeContext.LocationByOwnerQuery; > LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); > } > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 07-03-2009 15:27 >>> > Hi all > > I finally found out how to return Location rather than anonymous types: > > public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery > { > get > { > ObjectQuery locationByOwner; > if (_locationFilterOwner != null) > { > locationByOwner = > Location > .Where("it.Owner.Id = @ownerId", > new ObjectParameter ("ownerId", _locationFilterOwner.Id)); > } > else > { > locationByOwner = > Location; > } > return locationByOwner; > } > } > > Now, how could I use the object Owner as parameter and not Owner.Id? > This is not accepted: > > .Where("it.Owner = @owner", new ObjectParameter ("owner", _locationFilterOwner)); > > as only scalar values are accepted as parameter values. > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 06-03-2009 17:53 >>> > Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... > > I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. > The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > > > In .. .aspx.cs file: > > private void FillLocationDropDownList() > { > var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location > select new > { > Id = l.Id, > Location1 = l.Location1 > }).ToList(); > LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; > LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); > } > > However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): > > private void FillLocationDropDownList() > { > var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location > select new > { > Id = l.Id, > Location1 = l.Location1 > }).ToList(); > LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; > LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); > } > > > Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: > > " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. > Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." > > I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. > > Any suggestions? > > /gustav > > > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext > > public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery > { > get > { > IQueryable query; > if (_locationFilterOwner != null) > { > query = > from > Location location in this.Location > where > location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) > select > location; > } > else > { > query = > from > Location location in this.Location > select > location; > } > return (query as ObjectQuery); > } > } > > *** > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 9 16:41:37 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:41:37 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Let's continue our endevour? I have created a group in MS Live space: http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ would you mind to connect to this group? - it's currently open to everybody. I'd propose to upload and share our SCRUM project files on this group SkyDrive until we will find somewhere in the future a more effective way for distrubuted files' sharing/source control. I tried PopFly (as Gustav did) and I found it's too limiting. I have posted to group our MS SQL 2005 database files: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database and I have also posted simple sample WinForm application, which I wanted to propose to discuss here to find out is proposed simple way of desining WinForm OK for everybody for the Access->NET conversion project. This simple sample form (Shippers) does get data from backend db and it does have all the functionality to add, edit, delete data (except picture data which I left untouched for the time being). Here is this simple project zip-file and screenshot: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/SampleWinFormSolution.jpg To run the project from within VS on your system you will have to change connection string in app.config . When you get connected to the group we can also use the group to have online discussions via MS Live Messenger if that will be appropriate for everybody or just keep offlne discussions as this one I have just started there: http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!129 AFAIS there are many features in MS Live Groups - still to find which ones would be the most useful for us. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:01:25 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > OK, thank you. > > Yes, Gladinet looks interesting - I can use it with SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer. > And it can mount my SkyDrive as logical device e.g. Z: > > It would be useful if Gladinet can somehow mount just public part of SkyDrive for all of us to use it as code vault for source code control... > > -- > Shamil > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 9 17:03:42 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:03:42 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: We agreed to the 16th, didn't we? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 9 17:08:53 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 01:08:53 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, we did, Mike - this is just some preliminary information/"food for thought". -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:03:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > We agreed to the 16th, didn't we? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 10 05:35:44 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:35:44 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team at all, I have extended sample solution with simple MSReportViewer list report - just to keep collecting "food for thought" - nothing facny, tricky or advanced - just aiming to prepare info to "get it done" - MS Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conersion - as qucik as possible when we all get this project work shared... Here is the link to the zipped sample solution as dba-VB MS Live group SlyDrive: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_1.zip?ccr=6990 Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:41:37 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Let's continue our endevour? > > I have created a group in MS Live space: > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ > > would you mind to connect to this group? - it's currently open to everybody. > > I'd propose to upload and share our SCRUM project files on this group SkyDrive until we will find somewhere in the future a more effective way for distrubuted files' sharing/source control. > > I tried PopFly (as Gustav did) and I found it's too limiting. > > I have posted to group our MS SQL 2005 database files: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > and I have also posted simple sample WinForm application, which I wanted to propose to discuss here to find out is proposed simple way of desining WinForm OK for everybody for the Access->NET conversion project. This simple sample form (Shippers) does get data from backend db and it does have all the functionality to add, edit, delete data (except picture data which I left untouched for the time being). > > Here is this simple project zip-file and screenshot: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/SampleWinFormSolution.jpg > > To run the project from within VS on your system you will have to change connection string in app.config . > > When you get connected to the group we can also use the group to have online discussions via MS Live Messenger if that will be appropriate for everybody or just keep offlne discussions as this one I have just started there: > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!129 > > AFAIS there are many features in MS Live Groups - still to find which ones would be the most useful for us. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 10 06:40:29 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:40:29 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, I thought the dba-Vb MS Live group is currently open to everybody with MS Live account to join but it looks like it works somehow differently (despite the fact it's set widely open to the outer world): I have found your request to join and and I have set it as accepted - I think you can now use the dba-vb MS Live group without any limitations. Jack Drawbridge has also joined the dba-VB MS Live group today. Please set you requests to join and I will try to accept them promptly. (Please send me private e-mail to Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com if you wanted to get your request to join MS Live dba-vb processed immediately.) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:57:09 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > You need to approve our applications before we are granted access ...: > > > Someone may have deleted or moved the item, or you may not have permission to view it. > If you have questions about this item, contact the person who created it. > > > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 10-03-2009 11:35 >>> > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 02:21:52 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:21:52 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have added new sample form to the sample solution to demonstrate Parent/Child design technique: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_2.zip?ccr=5258 Once again - nothing very special - just collecting all the necessary "How To" techniques within one sample solution for us to speedily proceed with Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conversion when the conversion project will start next week. Can we shortly discuss the main goal of this first coming project? For me (if I'd have been a ProductOwner/Customer) - the main goal is to get conversion work ASAP (and I (if I'd have been a ProductOwner) currently do not care what MS technologies will be used to communicate with backend - they should just work well enough for converted Northwind application, which I (as ProductOwner and my customers) plan to use as a desktop application. For me (as I'm in the role of SCRUMMaster for this project) - the main goal in this project is to get teamwork organized with as little as possible troubles/impediments for team members (including myself). And I'm not trying to "reach the stars" with this goal on this stage - just to get some satisfactory distributed teamwork environment using mainly feely available tools and technologies ... The roadmap/main goal we're aiming at AFAIU is to use ADO.NET Entity Framework in the future but for the first project we assume that we do not even know that such technology exists... OK? :) Please add your comments/notes for use to have common understanding of this forst project main goal(s)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:35:44 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM Team at all, > > I have extended sample solution with simple MSReportViewer list report - just to keep collecting "food for thought" - nothing facny, tricky or advanced - just aiming to prepare info to "get it done" - MS Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conersion - as qucik as possible when we all get this project work shared... > > Here is the link to the zipped sample solution as dba-VB MS Live group SlyDrive: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_1.zip?ccr=6990 > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:41:37 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > Let's continue our endevour? > > > > I have created a group in MS Live space: > > > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ > > > > would you mind to connect to this group? - it's currently open to everybody. > > > > I'd propose to upload and share our SCRUM project files on this group SkyDrive until we will find somewhere in the future a more effective way for distrubuted files' sharing/source control. > > > > I tried PopFly (as Gustav did) and I found it's too limiting. > > > > I have posted to group our MS SQL 2005 database files: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > and I have also posted simple sample WinForm application, which I wanted to propose to discuss here to find out is proposed simple way of desining WinForm OK for everybody for the Access->NET conversion project. This simple sample form (Shippers) does get data from backend db and it does have all the functionality to add, edit, delete data (except picture data which I left untouched for the time being). > > > > Here is this simple project zip-file and screenshot: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/SampleWinFormSolution.jpg > > > > To run the project from within VS on your system you will have to change connection string in app.config . > > > > When you get connected to the group we can also use the group to have online discussions via MS Live Messenger if that will be appropriate for everybody or just keep offlne discussions as this one I have just started there: > > > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!129 > > > > AFAIS there are many features in MS Live Groups - still to find which ones would be the most useful for us. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 02:28:16 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:28:16 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, FYI: I have just found MS published a Rich Upload tooll to MS Live SkyDrive - here it's https://secure.wlxrs.com/7MZ0K!bbIbt-RpyIqB9sIA/etc/RichUploadMsi/en/RichUpload.msi Using this tool you can set the files to upload by dragging-and-dropping them to SkyDrive folder and then clicking button [Upload]: this Rich Upload tool is an ActiveX from MS, which can be hosted within IE (I havent' checked FireFox or Opera etc. - this ActiveX should work with them too I hope). Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 11 04:30:28 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:30:28 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil et al I can see our member list and your postings and files, but If I try to reply to a comment and click Publish, a message pops up: The service is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later. This "later" seems to be "forever". Is it just me? Can any of you publish a reply/comment? /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 10-03-2009 12:40 >>> Hi Gustav, I thought the dba-Vb MS Live group is currently open to everybody with MS Live account to join but it looks like it works somehow differently (despite the fact it's set widely open to the outer world): I have found your request to join and and I have set it as accepted - I think you can now use the dba-vb MS Live group without any limitations. Jack Drawbridge has also joined the dba-VB MS Live group today. Please set you requests to join and I will try to accept them promptly. (Please send me private e-mail to Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com if you wanted to get your request to join MS Live dba-vb processed immediately.) Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 05:01:53 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:01:53 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, I have seen such a message acou ple of times but currently group posting/commenting works OK for me. Please try to do some other actions within group - I checked group options there is no limitations: Group->Options->General All members can edit the calendar All members can add and edit folders and albums Group->Options->E-Mail Group e-mail On Group->Options->Group conversations On I do not see any options about commenting/starting discussions - I'd assume they are available for every group member by deafult. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:30:28 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil et al > > I can see our member list and your postings and files, but If I try to reply to a comment and click Publish, a message pops up: > > The service is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later. > > This "later" seems to be "forever". > Is it just me? Can any of you publish a reply/comment? > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 10-03-2009 12:40 >>> > > Hi Gustav, > > I thought the dba-Vb MS Live group is currently open to everybody with MS Live account to join but it looks like it works somehow differently (despite the fact it's set widely open to the outer world): I have found your request to join and and I have set it as accepted - I think you can now use the dba-vb MS Live group without any limitations. > > Jack Drawbridge has also joined the dba-VB MS Live group today. > > Please set you requests to join and I will try to accept them promptly. (Please send me private e-mail to Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com if you wanted to get your request to join MS Live dba-vb processed immediately.) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 10:27:30 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:27:30 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Scrum Team, I have been watching closely the progress Shamil has been making, and wishing I could join, but fearing I may not be able to contribute much. I also see that there are already enough members in the team. However, if you think at this point there is merit, I would like to volunteer to join, perhaps as the product owner. From the recent content from Shamil, I see that it might useful to split these two roles that Shamil currently has ie, Scrum Master and Product Owner. If I am too late, absolutely no offence, I will continue to lurk, but if you want another member, I am available, let me know what your preference it, thanks Mark 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. > I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their > winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? > The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent > form/report as grids/tables. > > The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of > objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. > > According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to > evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" > evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that > backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any > measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be > eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. > But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry > will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period > of time than the other "ligher" ones... > > This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker > Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". > > Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: > > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker > > We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three > usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of > Product Backlog Entries. > > Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent > as possible. > > Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by > time and space? > Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the > below BackLog if you see some issues with it. > > N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in > preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole > responsibility of ProductOwner.... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. Product Backlog > > Forms > ==== > > 1. Categories > 2. Customer Labels Dialog > 3. Customer Orders > 4. Customer Orders Subform1 > 5. Customer Orders Subform2 > 6. Customer Phone List > 7. Customers > 8. Employees > 9. Main Switchboard > 10. Orders > 11. Orders Subform > 12. Product List > 13. Products > 14. Quarterly Orders > 15. Quarterly Orders Subform > 16. Sales Analysis > 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 > 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 > 19. Sales by Year Dialog > 20. Sales Reports Dialog > 21. Startup > 22. Suppliers > > Reports > ===== > 1. Alphabetical List of Products > 2. Catalog > 3. Catalog Subreport > 4. Customer Labels > 5. Employee Sales by Country > 6. Invoice > 7. Products by Category > 8. Sales by Category > 9. Sales by Category Subreport > 10. Sales by Year > 11. Sales by Year Subreport > 12. Sales Totals by Amount > 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter > 14. Summary of Sales by Year > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 14:12:04 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:12:04 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmUgU0NSVU0gUHJvamVjdCBCYWNrbG9n?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark, You're welcome to join http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:27:30 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > Hello Scrum Team, > > I have been watching closely the progress Shamil has been making, and > wishing I could join, but fearing I may not be able to contribute much. > > I also see that there are already enough members in the team. However, if > you think at this point there is merit, I would like to volunteer to join, > perhaps as the product owner. From the recent content from Shamil, I see > that it might useful to split these two roles that Shamil currently has ie, > Scrum Master and Product Owner. > > If I am too late, absolutely no offence, I will continue to lurk, but if you > want another member, I am available, > > let me know what your preference it, > > thanks > > Mark > > > > 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. > > I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their > > winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? > > The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent > > form/report as grids/tables. > > > > The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of > > objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. > > > > According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to > > evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" > > evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that > > backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any > > measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be > > eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. > > But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry > > will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period > > of time than the other "ligher" ones... > > > > This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker > > Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". > > > > Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: > > > > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker > > > > We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three > > usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of > > Product Backlog Entries. > > > > Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent > > as possible. > > > > Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by > > time and space? > > Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the > > below BackLog if you see some issues with it. > > > > N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in > > preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole > > responsibility of ProductOwner.... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. Product Backlog > > > > Forms > > ==== > > > > 1. Categories > > 2. Customer Labels Dialog > > 3. Customer Orders > > 4. Customer Orders Subform1 > > 5. Customer Orders Subform2 > > 6. Customer Phone List > > 7. Customers > > 8. Employees > > 9. Main Switchboard > > 10. Orders > > 11. Orders Subform > > 12. Product List > > 13. Products > > 14. Quarterly Orders > > 15. Quarterly Orders Subform > > 16. Sales Analysis > > 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 > > 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 > > 19. Sales by Year Dialog > > 20. Sales Reports Dialog > > 21. Startup > > 22. Suppliers > > > > Reports > > ===== > > 1. Alphabetical List of Products > > 2. Catalog > > 3. Catalog Subreport > > 4. Customer Labels > > 5. Employee Sales by Country > > 6. Invoice > > 7. Products by Category > > 8. Sales by Category > > 9. Sales by Category Subreport > > 10. Sales by Year > > 11. Sales by Year Subreport > > 12. Sales Totals by Amount > > 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter > > 14. Summary of Sales by Year > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 03:01:31 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:01:31 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Just added to simple sample application: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... etc. The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:21:52 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have added new sample form to the sample solution to demonstrate Parent/Child design technique: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_2.zip?ccr=5258 > > Once again - nothing very special - just collecting all the necessary "How To" techniques within one sample solution for us to speedily proceed with Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conversion when the conversion project will start next week. > > Can we shortly discuss the main goal of this first coming project? > > For me (if I'd have been a ProductOwner/Customer) - the main goal is to get conversion work ASAP (and I (if I'd have been a ProductOwner) currently do not care what MS technologies will be used to communicate with backend - they should just work well enough for converted Northwind application, which I (as ProductOwner and my customers) plan to use as a desktop application. > > For me (as I'm in the role of SCRUMMaster for this project) - the main goal in this project is to get teamwork organized with as little as possible troubles/impediments for team members (including myself). And I'm not trying to "reach the stars" with this goal on this stage - just to get some satisfactory distributed teamwork environment using mainly feely available tools and technologies ... > > The roadmap/main goal we're aiming at AFAIU is to use ADO.NET Entity Framework in the future but for the first project we assume that we do not even know that such technology exists... > > OK? :) > > Please add your comments/notes for use to have common understanding of this forst project main goal(s)... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 03:13:34 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:13:34 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmUgU0NSVU0gUHJvamVjdCBCYWNrbG9n?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team at all, I have posted "Product Backlog" for the conversion project here: http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!142 Please comment/add new entries to it: first what we (SCRUM tesm) will have to do next week is to evaluate how much it could take to implement this or that entry from ProductBacklog. Then deliver this information to ProductOwner for him to prioritize the sequence of implementation of features he wanted to get in the context of limited time/resources... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:12:04 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > > Hello Mark, > > You're welcome to join http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Breen > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:27:30 +0000 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > > > Hello Scrum Team, > > > > I have been watching closely the progress Shamil has been making, and > > wishing I could join, but fearing I may not be able to contribute much. > > > > I also see that there are already enough members in the team. However, if > > you think at this point there is merit, I would like to volunteer to join, > > perhaps as the product owner. From the recent content from Shamil, I see > > that it might useful to split these two roles that Shamil currently has ie, > > Scrum Master and Product Owner. > > > > If I am too late, absolutely no offence, I will continue to lurk, but if you > > want another member, I am available, > > > > let me know what your preference it, > > > > thanks > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > > > Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. > > > I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their > > > winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? > > > The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent > > > form/report as grids/tables. > > > > > > The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of > > > objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. > > > > > > According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to > > > evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" > > > evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that > > > backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any > > > measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be > > > eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. > > > But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry > > > will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period > > > of time than the other "ligher" ones... > > > > > > This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker > > > Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". > > > > > > Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: > > > > > > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker > > > > > > We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three > > > usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of > > > Product Backlog Entries. > > > > > > Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent > > > as possible. > > > > > > Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by > > > time and space? > > > Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the > > > below BackLog if you see some issues with it. > > > > > > N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in > > > preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole > > > responsibility of ProductOwner.... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > P.S. Product Backlog > > > > > > Forms > > > ==== > > > > > > 1. Categories > > > 2. Customer Labels Dialog > > > 3. Customer Orders > > > 4. Customer Orders Subform1 > > > 5. Customer Orders Subform2 > > > 6. Customer Phone List > > > 7. Customers > > > 8. Employees > > > 9. Main Switchboard > > > 10. Orders > > > 11. Orders Subform > > > 12. Product List > > > 13. Products > > > 14. Quarterly Orders > > > 15. Quarterly Orders Subform > > > 16. Sales Analysis > > > 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 > > > 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 > > > 19. Sales by Year Dialog > > > 20. Sales Reports Dialog > > > 21. Startup > > > 22. Suppliers > > > > > > Reports > > > ===== > > > 1. Alphabetical List of Products > > > 2. Catalog > > > 3. Catalog Subreport > > > 4. Customer Labels > > > 5. Employee Sales by Country > > > 6. Invoice > > > 7. Products by Category > > > 8. Sales by Category > > > 9. Sales by Category Subreport > > > 10. Sales by Year > > > 11. Sales by Year Subreport > > > 12. Sales Totals by Amount > > > 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter > > > 14. Summary of Sales by Year > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 12 08:29:19 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. This is a topic for discussion. The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: Customer Id Name etc. Order Id CustomerId etc. OrderLine Id OrderId etc. The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> Hi SCRUM team at all, Just added to simple sample application: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... etc. The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 09:58:47 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:58:47 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, I'm for proposed renaming. Can you do it? The current db backup is uploaded here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Note: - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using them. I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my old habit abandoned while working on this project... While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it as Name - that's OK with me also etc. One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software product - test conversion Northwind application... For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will say "Yes" then do this rehaming. What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff on later steps... I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited resources we have. By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use table name prefix for ID fields)... I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some reasons they could make others informed about or not... As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work "done" and project released as quick as possible... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 12 10:06:23 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:06:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: <13BC2143D86F43ADBEB0C846C254625C@Mattys> Yes - but I have a question. Are there more hours in the day over there? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, > > I'm for proposed renaming. > Can you do it? > The current db backup is uploaded here: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Note: > > - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity > fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using > them. > > I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with > one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: > CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of > technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and > therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my > old habit abandoned while working on this project... > > While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of > Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd > not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it > as Name - that's OK with me also etc. > > One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all > know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be > useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to > levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details > then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps > (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... > > I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg > proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software > product - test conversion Northwind application... > > For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS > document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one > exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary > Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like > that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name > suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... > > Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with > their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will > say "Yes" then do this rehaming. > > What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? > I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel > ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to > have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff > on later steps... > > I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming > conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd > probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited > resources we have. > > By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to > "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use > table name prefix for ID fields)... > > I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there > is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate > in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay > "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can > temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some > reasons they could make others informed about or not... > > As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems > with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such > problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. > > .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect > or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the > first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within > this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to > concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work > "done" and project released as quick as possible... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > >> Hi SCRUM team >> >> Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I >> remember many years ago JC ranting about this. >> >> As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes >> in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't >> get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same >> adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards >> >> One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the >> properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the >> db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of >> course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via >> the DataTable. >> Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read >> incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and >> correct. >> >> That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than >> such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned >> quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having >> this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model >> that there is no excuse to not do so. >> >> In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, >> but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the >> fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should >> you feel so. >> >> This is a topic for discussion. >> >> The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: >> >> Customer >> Id >> Name >> etc. >> >> Order >> Id >> CustomerId >> etc. >> >> OrderLine >> Id >> OrderId >> etc. >> >> The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary >> key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of >> course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and >> this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain >> "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket >> science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to >> remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't >> fail. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> Just added to simple sample application: >> >> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip >> >> - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; >> - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; >> - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. >> >> Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got >> some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the >> real conversion project. For example: >> >> 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia >> foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; >> >> 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after >> upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name >> etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have >> them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... >> >> etc. >> >> The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be >> fixed... >> >> There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and >> propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 10:25:21 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:25:21 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: <13BC2143D86F43ADBEB0C846C254625C@Mattys> References: <13BC2143D86F43ADBEB0C846C254625C@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you, Mike, No, there is no such a luxury here - but there should be somebody to bulldoze (break down large pieces) of this project to have it going... Hope you will have this privilegy to bulldoze current project's follow-up projects somewhere in not that far future :) Well, in fact your purchase of VS2008 Prof. is a kind of such a "bulldozing" :) Returning credits now :) Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. In fact I'm having some troubles with parallel work for money because of only 24 hours long days here... -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:06:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Yes - but I have a question. > Are there more hours in the day over there? > > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:58 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > > Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, > > > > I'm for proposed renaming. > > Can you do it? > > The current db backup is uploaded here: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > > > Note: > > > > - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity > > fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using > > them. > > > > I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with > > one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: > > CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of > > technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and > > therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my > > old habit abandoned while working on this project... > > > > While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of > > Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd > > not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it > > as Name - that's OK with me also etc. > > > > One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all > > know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be > > useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to > > levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details > > then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps > > (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... > > > > I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg > > proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software > > product - test conversion Northwind application... > > > > For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS > > document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one > > exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary > > Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like > > that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name > > suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... > > > > Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with > > their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will > > say "Yes" then do this rehaming. > > > > What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? > > I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel > > ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to > > have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff > > on later steps... > > > > I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming > > conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd > > probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited > > resources we have. > > > > By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to > > "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use > > table name prefix for ID fields)... > > > > I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there > > is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate > > in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay > > "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can > > temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some > > reasons they could make others informed about or not... > > > > As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems > > with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such > > problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. > > > > .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect > > or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the > > first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within > > this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to > > concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work > > "done" and project released as quick as possible... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > >> Hi SCRUM team > >> > >> Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I > >> remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > >> > >> As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes > >> in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't > >> get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same > >> adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > >> > >> One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the > >> properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the > >> db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of > >> course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via > >> the DataTable. > >> Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read > >> incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and > >> correct. > >> > >> That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than > >> such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned > >> quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having > >> this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model > >> that there is no excuse to not do so. > >> > >> In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, > >> but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the > >> fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should > >> you feel so. > >> > >> This is a topic for discussion. > >> > >> The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > >> > >> Customer > >> Id > >> Name > >> etc. > >> > >> Order > >> Id > >> CustomerId > >> etc. > >> > >> OrderLine > >> Id > >> OrderId > >> etc. > >> > >> The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary > >> key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of > >> course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and > >> this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain > >> "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket > >> science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to > >> remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't > >> fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >> >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > >> > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> > >> Just added to simple sample application: > >> > >> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > >> > >> - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > >> - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > >> - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > >> > >> Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got > >> some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the > >> real conversion project. For example: > >> > >> 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia > >> foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > >> > >> 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after > >> upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name > >> etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have > >> them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > >> > >> etc. > >> > >> The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be > >> fixed... > >> > >> There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and > >> propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 10:52:02 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:52:02 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, You're very probably aware - if not here is a hint on how to do renaming quickly: - open MS SQL 2005 NorthwindNet 'Main' datamodel diagram and do all renaming directly in it with saving current edits (CTLS+S) once in a while as you're doing renaming... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 12 12:36:57 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:36:57 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil When I state "hysterical" it is for new projects and databases I'm in control of. Of course, for legal setups you often would leave it as is, and I think Northwind is such a case. As for which naming convention we should use, I'm quite flexible if we just try to stick to one. But it is difficult - I can see that some have one for WinForms and another for WebForms, oh well. I could even live with OrderId for the primary key of table Order. However, in code you'll see: someDataTable.OrderId someDataTable.CustomerId Now which is - if any - the PK of someDataTable? If you have: someDataTable.Id someDataTable.CustomerId there is no doubt. Id is the PK and CustomerId is some FK. But this is just my preference, nothing more, nothing less. For tables given names equal to reserved word I believe you can just bracket these like: [Order], at least in Access and SQL Server. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 15:58:47 >>> Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, I'm for proposed renaming. Can you do it? The current db backup is uploaded here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Note: - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using them. I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my old habit abandoned while working on this project... While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it as Name - that's OK with me also etc. One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software product - test conversion Northwind application... For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will say "Yes" then do this rehaming. What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff on later steps... I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited resources we have. By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use table name prefix for ID fields)... I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some reasons they could make others informed about or not... As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work "done" and project released as quick as possible... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 12 12:37:34 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:37:34 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil That may be true for renaming (haven't tried) but I don't think field properties are written back. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 16:52:02 >>> Hi Gustav, You're very probably aware - if not here is a hint on how to do renaming quickly: - open MS SQL 2005 NorthwindNet 'Main' datamodel diagram and do all renaming directly in it with saving current edits (CTLS+S) once in a while as you're doing renaming... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 13:45:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:45:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, > someDataTable.Id > someDataTable.CustomerId > > there is no doubt. Id is the PK and CustomerId is some FK. In the naming convention I'm currently using in NorthwindNet db it would be like that: > Customer.CustomerId > Order.CustomerId and it's clear where it's a primary key and where it's a foreign key. But let's go renaming with your proposed named conventions Customer.Id Order.CustomerId Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:58:07 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > When I state "hysterical" it is for new projects and databases I'm in control of. Of course, for legal setups you often would leave it as is, and I think Northwind is such a case. > > As for which naming convention we should use, I'm quite flexible if we just try to stick to one. But it is difficult - I can see that some have one for WinForms and another for WebForms, oh well. > I could even live with OrderId for the primary key of table Order. However, in code you'll see: > > someDataTable.OrderId > someDataTable.CustomerId > > Now which is - if any - the PK of someDataTable? If you have: > > someDataTable.Id > someDataTable.CustomerId > > there is no doubt. Id is the PK and CustomerId is some FK. > But this is just my preference, nothing more, nothing less. > > For tables given names equal to reserved word I believe you can just bracket these like: [Order], at least in Access and SQL Server. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 15:58:47 >>> > > Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, > > I'm for proposed renaming. > Can you do it? > The current db backup is uploaded here: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Note: > > - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using them. > > I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my old habit abandoned while working on this project... > > While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it as Name - that's OK with me also etc. > > One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... > > I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software product - test conversion Northwind application... > > For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... > > Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will say "Yes" then do this rehaming. > > What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff on later steps... > > I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited resources we have. > > By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use table name prefix for ID fields)... > > I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some reasons they could make others informed about or not... > > As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. > > .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work "done" and project released as quick as possible... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi SCRUM team > > > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > > > This is a topic for discussion. > > > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > > > Customer > > Id > > Name > > etc. > > > > Order > > Id > > CustomerId > > etc. > > > > OrderLine > > Id > > OrderId > > etc. > > > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > Just added to simple sample application: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > > > etc. > > > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 13 02:47:02 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:47:02 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2FtcGxlIC5ORVQgRm9ybXMvUmVwb3J0cyBEZXNpZ24g?= =?koi8-r?b?VGVjaG5pcXVlcyAtIFdhczogUmU6IFNjcnVtICYgQyMgLSBWUyB2?= =?koi8-r?b?ZXJzaW9ucyB3ZSBoYXZl?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have just added and posted some more samples here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_4.zip?ccr=1869 - Calculated dataSet tables's columns (Customer.CustomerCodeAndName column in NorthWindDataModelDataSet) - ComboBoxes' binding in grid - ShipVia and CustomerId in ShipperOrdersForm's grid Source: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.data.datacolumn.expression.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:01:31 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:21:52 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have added new sample form to the sample solution to demonstrate Parent/Child design technique: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_2.zip?ccr=5258 > > > > Once again - nothing very special - just collecting all the necessary "How To" techniques within one sample solution for us to speedily proceed with Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conversion when the conversion project will start next week. > > > > Can we shortly discuss the main goal of this first coming project? > > > > For me (if I'd have been a ProductOwner/Customer) - the main goal is to get conversion work ASAP (and I (if I'd have been a ProductOwner) currently do not care what MS technologies will be used to communicate with backend - they should just work well enough for converted Northwind application, which I (as ProductOwner and my customers) plan to use as a desktop application. > > > > For me (as I'm in the role of SCRUMMaster for this project) - the main goal in this project is to get teamwork organized with as little as possible troubles/impediments for team members (including myself). And I'm not trying to "reach the stars" with this goal on this stage - just to get some satisfactory distributed teamwork environment using mainly feely available tools and technologies ... > > > > The roadmap/main goal we're aiming at AFAIU is to use ADO.NET Entity Framework in the future but for the first project we assume that we do not even know that such technology exists... > > > > OK? :) > > > > Please add your comments/notes for use to have common understanding of this forst project main goal(s)... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Mar 14 09:41:57 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:41:57 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have made sample database tables' columns renaming according to Gustav proposals - new version of db backup is here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database/NorthWindNET%7C_DB%7C_BackUp%7C_20090314.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:37:34 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > That may be true for renaming (haven't tried) but I don't think field properties are written back. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 16:52:02 >>> > Hi Gustav, > > You're very probably aware - if not here is a hint on how to do renaming quickly: > > - open MS SQL 2005 NorthwindNet 'Main' datamodel diagram and do all renaming directly in it with saving current edits (CTLS+S) once in a while as you're doing renaming... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi SCRUM team > > > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > > > This is a topic for discussion. > > > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > > > Customer > > Id > > Name > > etc. > > > > Order > > Id > > CustomerId > > etc. > > > > OrderLine > > Id > > OrderId > > etc. > > > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > > > /gustav > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Mar 14 13:21:13 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team, Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). Please ask your questions. Please make your estimations. You can download workbook with BackLog items here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 or here: http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. FORMS ===== 1 Categories 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 3 Customer Orders 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 5 Customer Orders Subform2 6 Customer Phone List 7 Customers => 2 8 Employees => 5 9 Main Switchboard 10 Orders 11 Orders Subform => 1 12 Product List 13 Products 14 Quarterly Orders 15 Quarterly Orders Subform 16 Sales Analysis => ??? 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? 19 Sales by Year Dialog 20 Sales Reports Dialog 21 Startup 22 Suppliers REPORTS ======= 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 2 Catalog 3 Catalog Subreport 4 Customer Labels 5 Employee Sales by Country 6 Invoice => 5 7 Products by Category 8 Sales by Category 9 Sales by Category Subreport 10 Sales by Year 11 Sales by Year Subreport 12 Sales Totals by Amount 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter 14 Summary of Sales by Year From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 14:13:23 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:13:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all Message-ID: <29f585dd0903141213w2f1448ccq4ff1f866e8ae527a@mail.gmail.com> After months of toying with various languages like Python and Ruby (which are lots of fun but I don't see any job postings for them) I have decided that it's time to pinch my nose and jump into the C# pool. How's the water? A. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Mar 14 14:33:32 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:33:32 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?SGVsbG8gYWxs?= In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0903141213w2f1448ccq4ff1f866e8ae527a@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0903141213w2f1448ccq4ff1f866e8ae527a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The C# sun is rising and is starting to shine full power here at dba-VB, and the water is getting hot, Arthur, welcome to the club! :) -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 14 14:44:49 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:44:49 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all Message-ID: Hi Arthur Yes, it is perfect. Jump! /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 14-03-2009 20:13 >>> After months of toying with various languages like Python and Ruby (which are lots of fun but I don't see any job postings for them) I have decided that it's time to pinch my nose and jump into the C# pool. How's the water? A. From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat Mar 14 18:45:34 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:45:34 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all References: Message-ID: All ...we got to get Bryan to change the list name to dba-dotnet :) ...ain't no .net, much less C# gurus even gonna look at a vb list :( ...and no slight meant to Shamil or Gustav, but we could use a couple :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Gustav Brock" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:44 PM To: Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Hello all > Hi Arthur > > Yes, it is perfect. Jump! > > /gustav > >>>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 14-03-2009 20:13 >>> > After months of toying with various languages like Python and Ruby (which > are lots of fun but I don't see any job postings for them) I have decided > that it's time to pinch my nose and jump into the C# pool. How's the > water? > > A. > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 20:56:43 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:56:43 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29f585dd0903141856n7639d302gc9f44ca36f9a7584@mail.gmail.com> Cannonballllllllll... On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > Yes, it is perfect. Jump! > > /gustav > From Gustav at cactus.dk Sun Mar 15 03:17:10 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:17:10 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all Message-ID: Hi William That is a good idea. /gustav >>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 15-03-2009 00:45 >>> ...we got to get Bryan to change the list name to dba-dotnet :) From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 16 11:15:09 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. I have made mine over weekend. Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Hi SCRUM Team, > > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: > > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. > > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > Please ask your questions. > Please make your estimations. > > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > or here: > > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. > > > FORMS > ===== > > 1 Categories > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > 3 Customer Orders > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > 6 Customer Phone List > 7 Customers => 2 > 8 Employees => 5 > 9 Main Switchboard > 10 Orders > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > 12 Product List > 13 Products > 14 Quarterly Orders > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > 21 Startup > 22 Suppliers > > REPORTS > ======= > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > 2 Catalog > 3 Catalog Subreport > 4 Customer Labels > 5 Employee Sales by Country > 6 Invoice => 5 > 7 Products by Category > 8 Sales by Category > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > 10 Sales by Year > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 16 17:37:35 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 01:37:35 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RllJOiBHb3QgQ1NNIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIHRvZGF5Li4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and other projects. Thank you. -- Shamil From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 02:03:32 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 07:03:32 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well done Shamil. Max On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM > endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area ( > http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 17 02:16:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:16:58 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... References: Message-ID: <6645DEA9757640B18593B4A0D354A8A1@Mattys> My sentiments exactly - Congratulations. And gratitude for sharing your successes with all as you do. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:03 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > Well done Shamil. > > Max > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil > wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf >> >> Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM >> endevour... >> >> I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area ( >> http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it >> will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion >> and >> other projects. >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marklbreen at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 06:08:14 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:08:14 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Shamil, Congratulations to you on this, I hope it is profitable for you in next few years, Mark 2009/3/16 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM > endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area ( > http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 17 08:35:27 2009 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us. ???????????? (hope this is close) Jack -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... Hi All, Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and other projects. Thank you. -- Shamil _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 09:07:01 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:07:01 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] test Message-ID: <49BFAE85.5090504@gmail.com> testing if I am subscribed. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 09:45:45 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:45:45 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?dGVzdA==?= In-Reply-To: <49BFAE85.5090504@gmail.com> References: <49BFAE85.5090504@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi John, Yes, you're. Welcome to dba-VB! :) Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:02:24 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:24 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > I have made mine over weekend. > > Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: > > > > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. > > > > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > > > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > > > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > > > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > > > Please ask your questions. > > Please make your estimations. > > > > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > > > or here: > > > > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. > > > > > > FORMS > > ===== > > > > 1 Categories > > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > 3 Customer Orders > > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > 6 Customer Phone List > > 7 Customers => 2 > > 8 Employees => 5 > > 9 Main Switchboard > > 10 Orders > > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > 12 Product List > > 13 Products > > 14 Quarterly Orders > > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > 21 Startup > > 22 Suppliers > > > > REPORTS > > ======= > > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > 2 Catalog > > 3 Catalog Subreport > > 4 Customer Labels > > 5 Employee Sales by Country > > 6 Invoice => 5 > > 7 Products by Category > > 8 Sales by Category > > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > 10 Sales by Year > > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:02:54 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:54 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > I have made mine over weekend. > > Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: > > > > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. > > > > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > > > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > > > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > > > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > > > Please ask your questions. > > Please make your estimations. > > > > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > > > or here: > > > > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. > > > > > > FORMS > > ===== > > > > 1 Categories > > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > 3 Customer Orders > > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > 6 Customer Phone List > > 7 Customers => 2 > > 8 Employees => 5 > > 9 Main Switchboard > > 10 Orders > > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > 12 Product List > > 13 Products > > 14 Quarterly Orders > > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > 21 Startup > > 22 Suppliers > > > > REPORTS > > ======= > > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > 2 Catalog > > 3 Catalog Subreport > > 4 Customer Labels > > 5 Employee Sales by Country > > 6 Invoice => 5 > > 7 Products by Category > > 8 Sales by Category > > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > 10 Sales by Year > > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:15:16 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:15:16 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RllJOiBHb3QgQ1NNIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIHRvZGF5Li4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you everybody for your congratulations! I will try to keep facilitating "SCRUM values" here as far as I have got them from my CSM course and as I currently understand them - there should be mistakes and inconsistencies very probably in this my facilitating as I'm only beginning my SCRUMMaster activity for broad audience but I do expect there should be much more useful and interesting results demonstrated by all the involved parties, especially by SCRUM team members... Here they are (in the sequence they joined the team): - Gustav Brock, - Mike Mattys, - Doug Murphy and - John Colby And our ProductOwner/StakeHolder: - Mark Breen Thank you. :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Jack and Pat" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of > us. > > ???????????? (hope this is close) > > Jack > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area > (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 17 12:15:15 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:15:15 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog Planning Game... Message-ID: Hi Shamil That is perfectly OK for me. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 18:02 >>> Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:15:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:15:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RllJOiBHb3QgQ1NNIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIHRvZGF5Li4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you everybody for your congratulations! I will try to keep facilitating "SCRUM values" here as far as I have got them from my CSM course and as I currently understand them - there should be mistakes and inconsistencies very probably in this my facilitating as I'm only beginning my SCRUMMaster activity for broad audience but I do expect there should be much more useful and interesting results demonstrated by all the involved parties, especially by SCRUM team members... Here they are (in the sequence they joined the team): - Gustav Brock, - Mike Mattys, - Doug Murphy and - John Colby And our ProductOwner/StakeHolder: - Mark Breen Thank you. :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Jack and Pat" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of > us. > > ???????????? (hope this is close) > > Jack > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area > (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:17:37 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:17:37 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry for posting the same message twice - that was my Internet -email agent issue. -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:54 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. > < snip> From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 12:23:16 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BFDC84.6020108@gmail.com> That sounds good to me also. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >> I have made mine over weekend. >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> To: dba-VB >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... >> >> >>> Hi SCRUM Team, >>> >>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: >>> >>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >>> >>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. >>> >>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >>> >>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) >>> >>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >>> >>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >>> >>> Please ask your questions. >>> Please make your estimations. >>> >>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >>> >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >>> >>> or here: >>> >>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >>> >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> >>> P.S. >>> >>> >>> FORMS >>> ===== >>> >>> 1 Categories >>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >>> 3 Customer Orders >>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >>> 6 Customer Phone List >>> 7 Customers => 2 >>> 8 Employees => 5 >>> 9 Main Switchboard >>> 10 Orders >>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 >>> 12 Product List >>> 13 Products >>> 14 Quarterly Orders >>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog >>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog >>> 21 Startup >>> 22 Suppliers >>> >>> REPORTS >>> ======= >>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >>> 2 Catalog >>> 3 Catalog Subreport >>> 4 Customer Labels >>> 5 Employee Sales by Country >>> 6 Invoice => 5 >>> 7 Products by Category >>> 8 Sales by Category >>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport >>> 10 Sales by Year >>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport >>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount >>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-VB mailing list >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 12:24:14 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:24:14 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BFDCBE.3010203@gmail.com> I was wondering... I have a new web site and my wife is informing me of emails she receives twice. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Sorry for posting the same message twice - that was my Internet -email agent issue. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:54 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. >> >> > < snip> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 12:26:34 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:26:34 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BFDD4A.10903@gmail.com> Congratulations Shamil on the certification! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you everybody for your congratulations! > > I will try to keep facilitating "SCRUM values" here as far as I have got them from my CSM course and as I currently understand them - there should be mistakes and inconsistencies very probably in this my facilitating as I'm only beginning my SCRUMMaster activity for broad audience but I do expect there should be much more useful and interesting results demonstrated by all the involved parties, especially by SCRUM team members... > > Here they are (in the sequence they joined the team): > > - Gustav Brock, > - Mike Mattys, > - Doug Murphy and > - John Colby > > And our ProductOwner/StakeHolder: > > - Mark Breen > > Thank you. :) > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Jack and Pat" > To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 > Subject: RE: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > > >> Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of >> us. >> >> ???????????? (hope this is close) >> >> Jack >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov >> Shamil >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM >> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. >> Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... >> >> Hi All, >> >> Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf >> >> Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... >> >> I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area >> (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it >> will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and >> other projects. >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 17 12:57:12 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... References: Message-ID: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would see me would be at the bottom of the pool! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and > myself. > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have > time to make his estimations. > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > estimations here - is that OK with you? > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there > is some work to do in coordinating them. > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >> I have made mine over weekend. >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan >> implementation/release... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> To: dba-VB >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> > >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following >> > values: >> > >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >> > >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on >> > the next estimation round. >> > >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >> > >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more >> > definitive estimation for this item.) >> > >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >> > >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >> > >> > Please ask your questions. >> > Please make your estimations. >> > >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >> > >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >> > >> > or here: >> > >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >> > >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > P.S. >> > >> > >> > FORMS >> > ===== >> > >> > 1 Categories >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >> > 3 Customer Orders >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >> > 6 Customer Phone List >> > 7 Customers => 2 >> > 8 Employees => 5 >> > 9 Main Switchboard >> > 10 Orders >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 >> > 12 Product List >> > 13 Products >> > 14 Quarterly Orders >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog >> > 21 Startup >> > 22 Suppliers >> > >> > REPORTS >> > ======= >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >> > 2 Catalog >> > 3 Catalog Subreport >> > 4 Customer Labels >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country >> > 6 Invoice => 5 >> > 7 Products by Category >> > 8 Sales by Category >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport >> > 10 Sales by Year >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 15:53:08 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:53:08 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> References: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you SCRUM team, let's wait for Doug estimatiion to arrive. Meanwhile shoudlnt' we try to select distributed source control system? - Here are two candidates: 1. BAZAAR http://bazaar-vcs.org/ and https://launchpad.net/ and 2. CODEPLEX http://www.codeplex.com/ I must say I didn't use nor the first nor the second. Shouldn't we try BAZAAR via Launchpad first of all? Bazaar/Lanchpad seems to be a really lightweight yet powerful source control system. Shouldn't we just create a project in Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/) and to put some files in it and just try to check-out/edit/check-in them distributed way and see what happens - just plain test text files? Please propose other options to consider for distributed source control. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. > > I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would > see me would be at the bottom of the pool! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and > > myself. > > > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he > > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have > > time to make his estimations. > > > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, > > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project > > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking > > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced > > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and > > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some > > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > > > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this > > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we > > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > > estimations here - is that OK with you? > > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there > > is some work to do in coordinating them. > > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > >> > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> > >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > >> I have made mine over weekend. > >> > >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today > >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of > >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to > >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan > >> implementation/release... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> To: dba-VB > >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > >> > >> > Hi SCRUM Team, > >> > > >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > >> > values: > >> > > >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > >> > > >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) > >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on > >> > the next estimation round. > >> > > >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make > >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - > >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > >> > > >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just > >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear > >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a > >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET > >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this > >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more > >> > definitive estimation for this item.) > >> > > >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > >> > > >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like > >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > >> > > >> > Please ask your questions. > >> > Please make your estimations. > >> > > >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > >> > > >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > >> > > >> > or here: > >> > > >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > >> > > >> > > >> > Thank you. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Shamil > >> > > >> > P.S. > >> > > >> > > >> > FORMS > >> > ===== > >> > > >> > 1 Categories > >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > >> > 3 Customer Orders > >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > >> > 6 Customer Phone List > >> > 7 Customers => 2 > >> > 8 Employees => 5 > >> > 9 Main Switchboard > >> > 10 Orders > >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > >> > 12 Product List > >> > 13 Products > >> > 14 Quarterly Orders > >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > >> > 21 Startup > >> > 22 Suppliers > >> > > >> > REPORTS > >> > ======= > >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > >> > 2 Catalog > >> > 3 Catalog Subreport > >> > 4 Customer Labels > >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country > >> > 6 Invoice => 5 > >> > 7 Products by Category > >> > 8 Sales by Category > >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > >> > 10 Sales by Year > >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 17 16:01:46 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... References: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> Message-ID: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. I'll have to download it and see if it runs. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Thank you SCRUM team, let's wait for Doug estimatiion to arrive. > > Meanwhile shoudlnt' we try to select distributed source control system? - > Here are two candidates: > > 1. BAZAAR > > http://bazaar-vcs.org/ and https://launchpad.net/ > > and > > 2. CODEPLEX > > http://www.codeplex.com/ > > I must say I didn't use nor the first nor the second. > > Shouldn't we try BAZAAR via Launchpad first of all? Bazaar/Lanchpad seems > to be a really lightweight yet powerful source control system. > > Shouldn't we just create a project in Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/) > and to put some files in it and just try to check-out/edit/check-in them > distributed way and see what happens - just plain test text files? > > Please propose other options to consider for distributed source control. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > >> I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. >> >> I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would >> see me would be at the bottom of the pool! >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >> Game... >> >> >> > >> > Hi SCRUM team at all, >> > >> > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and >> > myself. >> > >> > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me >> > he >> > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have >> > time to make his estimations. >> > >> > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, >> > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project >> > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking >> > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced >> > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and >> > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some >> > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). >> > >> > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting >> > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members >> > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any >> > NorthWind .NET form or report... >> > >> > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in >> > this >> > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done >> > we >> > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... >> > >> > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our >> > estimations here - is that OK with you? >> > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore >> > there >> > is some work to do in coordinating them. >> > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial >> > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week >> > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but >> > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related >> > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> > issues." >> > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >> > Game... >> > >> >> >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >> >> I have made mine over weekend. >> >> >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today >> >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of >> >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to >> >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan >> >> implementation/release... >> >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Shamil >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> >> To: dba-VB >> >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >> >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >> >> Game... >> >> >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> >> > >> >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product >> >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following >> >> > values: >> >> > >> >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >> >> > >> >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT >> >> > gmail.com) >> >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them >> >> > on >> >> > the next estimation round. >> >> > >> >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make >> >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - >> >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >> >> > >> >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - >> >> > just >> >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear >> >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's >> >> > a >> >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in >> >> > .NET >> >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time >> >> > this >> >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more >> >> > definitive estimation for this item.) >> >> > >> >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in >> >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >> >> > >> >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks >> >> > like >> >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >> >> > >> >> > Please ask your questions. >> >> > Please make your estimations. >> >> > >> >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >> >> > >> >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >> >> > >> >> > or here: >> >> > >> >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html >> >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Thank you. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Shamil >> >> > >> >> > P.S. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > FORMS >> >> > ===== >> >> > >> >> > 1 Categories >> >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >> >> > 3 Customer Orders >> >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >> >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >> >> > 6 Customer Phone List >> >> > 7 Customers => 2 >> >> > 8 Employees => 5 >> >> > 9 Main Switchboard >> >> > 10 Orders >> >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 >> >> > 12 Product List >> >> > 13 Products >> >> > 14 Quarterly Orders >> >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >> >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >> >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >> >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >> >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog >> >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog >> >> > 21 Startup >> >> > 22 Suppliers >> >> > >> >> > REPORTS >> >> > ======= >> >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >> >> > 2 Catalog >> >> > 3 Catalog Subreport >> >> > 4 Customer Labels >> >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country >> >> > 6 Invoice => 5 >> >> > 7 Products by Category >> >> > 8 Sales by Category >> >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport >> >> > 10 Sales by Year >> >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport >> >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount >> >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >> >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > dba-VB mailing list >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> dba-VB mailing list >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 17:19:08 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 01:19:08 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> References: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike and SCRUM team, If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files in it to share... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:53 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > > > > Thank you SCRUM team, let's wait for Doug estimatiion to arrive. > > > > Meanwhile shoudlnt' we try to select distributed source control system? - > > Here are two candidates: > > > > 1. BAZAAR > > > > http://bazaar-vcs.org/ and https://launchpad.net/ > > > > and > > > > 2. CODEPLEX > > > > http://www.codeplex.com/ > > > > I must say I didn't use nor the first nor the second. > > > > Shouldn't we try BAZAAR via Launchpad first of all? Bazaar/Lanchpad seems > > to be a really lightweight yet powerful source control system. > > > > Shouldn't we just create a project in Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/) > > and to put some files in it and just try to check-out/edit/check-in them > > distributed way and see what happens - just plain test text files? > > > > Please propose other options to consider for distributed source control. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > >> I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. > >> > >> I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would > >> see me would be at the bottom of the pool! > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > >> Game... > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> > > >> > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and > >> > myself. > >> > > >> > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me > >> > he > >> > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have > >> > time to make his estimations. > >> > > >> > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, > >> > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project > >> > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking > >> > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced > >> > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and > >> > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some > >> > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > >> > > >> > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > >> > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > >> > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > >> > NorthWind .NET form or report... > >> > > >> > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in > >> > this > >> > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done > >> > we > >> > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > >> > > >> > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > >> > estimations here - is that OK with you? > >> > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore > >> > there > >> > is some work to do in coordinating them. > >> > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > >> > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > >> > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > >> > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > >> > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > >> > > >> > Thank you. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Shamil > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > >> > issues." > >> > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > >> > Game... > >> > > >> >> > >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> >> > >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > >> >> I have made mine over weekend. > >> >> > >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today > >> >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of > >> >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to > >> >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan > >> >> implementation/release... > >> >> > >> >> Thank you. > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Shamil > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> >> To: dba-VB > >> >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > >> >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > >> >> Game... > >> >> > >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, > >> >> > > >> >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > >> >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > >> >> > values: > >> >> > > >> >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > >> >> > > >> >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT > >> >> > gmail.com) > >> >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them > >> >> > on > >> >> > the next estimation round. > >> >> > > >> >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make > >> >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - > >> >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > >> >> > > >> >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - > >> >> > just > >> >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear > >> >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's > >> >> > a > >> >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in > >> >> > .NET > >> >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time > >> >> > this > >> >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more > >> >> > definitive estimation for this item.) > >> >> > > >> >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > >> >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > >> >> > > >> >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks > >> >> > like > >> >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > >> >> > > >> >> > Please ask your questions. > >> >> > Please make your estimations. > >> >> > > >> >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > >> >> > > >> >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > >> >> > > >> >> > or here: > >> >> > > >> >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > >> >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Thank you. > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > Shamil > >> >> > > >> >> > P.S. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > FORMS > >> >> > ===== > >> >> > > >> >> > 1 Categories > >> >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > >> >> > 3 Customer Orders > >> >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > >> >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > >> >> > 6 Customer Phone List > >> >> > 7 Customers => 2 > >> >> > 8 Employees => 5 > >> >> > 9 Main Switchboard > >> >> > 10 Orders > >> >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > >> >> > 12 Product List > >> >> > 13 Products > >> >> > 14 Quarterly Orders > >> >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > >> >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > >> >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > >> >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > >> >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > >> >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > >> >> > 21 Startup > >> >> > 22 Suppliers > >> >> > > >> >> > REPORTS > >> >> > ======= > >> >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > >> >> > 2 Catalog > >> >> > 3 Catalog Subreport > >> >> > 4 Customer Labels > >> >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country > >> >> > 6 Invoice => 5 > >> >> > 7 Products by Category > >> >> > 8 Sales by Category > >> >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > >> >> > 10 Sales by Year > >> >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > >> >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > >> >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > >> >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> dba-VB mailing list > >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 06:43:20 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:43:20 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Message-ID: Hello Shamil, As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get access to the code on that project. If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, I believe that it would be the best choice. FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work well for all team members. My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. Mark 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all > need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can > be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities > simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), > and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download > and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python > interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and > setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well > organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > in it to share... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > > I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 06:52:54 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:52:54 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C0E096.7030601@gmail.com> Not to mention the fact that many of us don't use source control at all on a daily basis. It is another thing to come up to speed on. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Shamil, > As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues > with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the > project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became > a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was > only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get > access to the code on that project. > > If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, > I believe that it would be the best choice. > > FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on > our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, > Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of > course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough > with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some > routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small > solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work > well for all team members. > > My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it > becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever > architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members > so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > > > >> Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> >> If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all >> need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can >> be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities >> simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), >> and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download >> and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... >> >> Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python >> interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and >> setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? >> >> Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well >> organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files >> in it to share... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Mike Mattys" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... >> >> >>> Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. >>> I'll have to download it and see if it runs. >>> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 18 06:57:42 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:57:42 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog Planning Game... Message-ID: Hi Shamil I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to require some effort to set up and test. CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> Hi Mike and SCRUM team, If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files in it to share... Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 07:49:04 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:49:04 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark, Yes, source code control is important and very desirable but when resources are limited, and especially when there are many other tasks to solve to release final product then I suppose that automated source code control can be postponed. I personaly have experience of working in distributed team on several projects withoput automated source control - and that worked OK, and all code was available when needed etc.... The first project is small, and all code coordination can be done manually without that much overhead I suppose... Yes, this was my initiative yesterday to start talking on SCCS expecting that maybe somebody will come with ready to use solution/experience but my current proposal (because we do not have such experience as a team) is to postpone source code control for now, and to introduce it if we will make the project quicker than we will plan to do it. For now for this small project we can just split it into separate parts (source files within one solution) and have somebody to play the role of SCCS manually. In my opinion good candidates for distributed SCCS seems to be: CodePlex (http://www.codeplex.com/) and Bazaar (http://bazaar-vcs.org/ , https://launchpad.net/) Here is how CodePlex can be used: http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home still I'd postpone trying to do introduce SCCS in the very beginning of our project if only somebody of the team wouldn't want to invest their free time into that trial and to make a short instruction for everybody how to have our project seemslessly published and kept on CodePlex... Mark, I'm playing the role of SCRUMMaster and what I'm doing now (commenting here the issue of SCCS) is in fact shouldn't be my responsibility as I shoudln't influence team members solution to use or not to use SCCS... ...but you're a ProductOwner and according to this role asking to use SCCS by the team is also unusual practice - ProductOwner cares about product features and products releases and all the rest is not interesting to the ProductOwner usually, even "forbidden" to mention accoridng to SCRUM process as far as I understand it... But that's OK I suppose you and myself are currently talking about SCCS because here we currently have to have a kind of mixture of roles but when proposing/telling something we have to be very constructive and goal oriented to not fall into lengthy discussions on "best practices" etc. without developing and delivering real software customers are waiting for - if we can live without SCCS for some time let it be so? I think that our main customers are Access-D(dba-VB) memebers and you as a ProductOwner - would you like to see us (SCRUMMaster and team members) building robust SCCS and spending most of the time on that activity or you wanted us to have NorthWind.NET implemented for you to play with an see how it is done? Recap: - let's postpone SCCS usage in our environment if only somebody (Mark Breen?) will not come with ready to use and free solution for every team member to start using in fifteen minutes/half-an hour? - let's keep collecting info on available SCCS options to try them in the end of our projects if we will have enough time left. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:43:20 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Hello Shamil, > As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues > with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the > project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became > a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was > only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get > access to the code on that project. > > If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, > I believe that it would be the best choice. > > FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on > our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, > Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of > course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough > with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some > routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small > solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work > well for all team members. > > My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it > becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever > architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members > so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all > > need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can > > be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities > > simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), > > and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download > > and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > > > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python > > interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and > > setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > > > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well > > organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > > system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > > in it to share... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > > > Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > > > I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 07:53:41 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:53:41 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <49C0E096.7030601@gmail.com> References: <49C0E096.7030601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <<< It is another thing to come up to speed on. >>> Yes. -----Original Message----- From: John W Colby To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:52:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Not to mention the fact that many of us don't use source control at all > on a daily basis. It is another thing to come up to speed on. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Mark Breen wrote: > > Hello Shamil, > > As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues > > with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the > > project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became > > a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was > > only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get > > access to the code on that project. > > > > If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, > > I believe that it would be the best choice. > > > > FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on > > our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, > > Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of > > course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough > > with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some > > routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small > > solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work > > well for all team members. > > > > My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it > > becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever > > architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members > > so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > >> Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > >> > >> If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all > >> need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can > >> be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities > >> simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), > >> and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download > >> and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > >> > >> Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python > >> interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and > >> setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > >> > >> Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well > >> organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > >> in it to share... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > >> Basic and related programming issues." > >> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > >> > >> > >>> Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > >>> I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > >>> > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 07:54:38 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:54:38 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?IGtMb2cgUGxhbm5pbmdHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, Gustav, I agree, Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog PlanningGame... > Hi Shamil > > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to require some effort to set up and test. > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: > > http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files in it to share... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 12:49:49 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:49:49 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RndkOiB0byB0ZXN0?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Mark, This is good news. This is good that you made a proposal, and then came with a constructive solution very promptly :) It's very much appreciated! Still I'd not force SCRUM team members to use this solution from the very beginning if they only do not want to try it by themselves: one of the main SCRUMMaster's roles AFAIG is to "shield" team members from any impediments coming from outside, especially from ProductOwner :) Well, I'm a kind of kidding for this certain our case with SCCS :) - in fact being a developer it is very tempting for me to try this solution with your server... But let's SCRUM team members decide by themselves? - please Gustav, Mike, John and Doug - based on tempting proposal of our respectful ProductOwner Mark would you like to start development next week with trying to setup SCC provided there will be first version of the source solution already there on our SCC Server? (I will try to put it there over weekend...) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:17:38 +0000 Subject: Fwd: to test > Hello All, > > Having just read the responses from all my first comment is absolutely OK, I > am product owner role in this project and as as such will try to adhere to just > that role. > > However, let me tell you that since I sent my first email this morning about > source control, I did some work before I read the additional emails that are > leaning torwards not using SCCS, so I will report here on that work, and > then the team can decide what they want to do. > > Shamil, I stress again here I am not attempting to push my opinions about > source control, just offering you the choice here, as I have already done a > little work on it today. > > I played with codeplex but found it terribly slow and eventually I did not > get it to work for me, I then googled the errors I was getting and saw other > had the same errors. > > ========== > I have created a subversion server so if you want to use it, you must do the > following four steps > > 1) download and install TortiseSVN from the following URL > http://tortoisesvn.net/downloads obviously choose the windows version you > need 32 bit probably. > (should finish in less than five mins, you do not need to reboot) > > > 2) create a folder on your PC where you would like the source code to be > stored and saved for you to work on. This will be the main working folder > you will use when running VS2008 > eg c:\scrum code\ > or > c:\my documents\Visual Studio 2005 > (should be very quick) > > > 3) right click on the new folder and go to your new context sensitive menu > item tortise SVN and then from the submenu, click "create repository here". > See the attached JPG. You will receive a msg box with the message, The > repository was successfully created. > (should also take just 30 seconds) > > last step > 4) You just need to do a check out, from the server, once, to allow the > client to know the address and authentication details, remember to click the > check box to "remember the authentication details" > again see the second jpg that I have attached to this email. The jpg has > two steps including in one picture. > > the url that you need is > > https://www.sjai.org:8443/svn/scrum01 > once you say OK, you can accept the suggestion to create a new folder and > then you will be prompted for your username and password > the users I have created are as follows > > username password > -------- -------- > shamil shamil09 > john john09 > mike mike09 > doug doub09 > gustav gustav09 > > > When you check out, you should receive one text file, I created this > afternoon named test.txt Feel free to update it with your name and anything > else you feel like, or create a few new files and commit them to our > respository. > > We can create new projects when we need to, but we may be happy with keeping > it simple for this project. > > I have tested this server here in Ireland with the big .bak file that Shamil > sent and it works well, if you want to try uploading a larger file, feel > free. > > Finally, these steps are all working here, so if you one person would like > to check that they work for you also, before the entire team spends time on > it, it would be better. > > let me add that if you have use source control, you will know that it is > really easy to work with and > > thanks > > Mark > > > > > > > > 2009/3/18 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > OK, Gustav, I agree, > > Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. > > CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: > > > http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home > > but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or > other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and > we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog > PlanningGame... > > > Hi Shamil > > > > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to > require some effort to set up and test. > > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the > Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: > > > > > http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we > all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR > can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those > utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS > this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with > upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via > .bat files... > > > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if > Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some > files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use > them? > > > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code > well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > in it to share... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Mark > > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (creating a repository locally.JPG) > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (checking out for the first time.JPG) > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 13:11:23 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:11:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: to test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C1394B.5060801@gmail.com> I am very interested in source control, always have been. I have never done it (though I have tried) simply because it didn't work and I had no one to fall back on for answers. I will certainly give Mark's instructions a shot and see what I see. I look at this as an additional tool in my box completely outside of this scrum project. Thanks Mark for researching this and setting it up. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you, Mark, > > This is good news. > This is good that you made a proposal, and then came with a constructive solution very promptly :) > It's very much appreciated! > > Still I'd not force SCRUM team members to use this solution from the very beginning if they only do not want to try it by themselves: one of the main SCRUMMaster's roles AFAIG is to "shield" team members from any impediments coming from outside, especially from ProductOwner :) > > Well, I'm a kind of kidding for this certain our case with SCCS :) - in fact being a developer it is very tempting for me to try this solution with your server... > > But let's SCRUM team members decide by themselves? - please Gustav, Mike, John and Doug - based on tempting proposal of our respectful ProductOwner Mark would you like to start development next week with trying to setup SCC provided there will be first version of the source solution already there on our SCC Server? (I will try to put it there over weekend...) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Breen > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:17:38 +0000 > Subject: Fwd: to test > > >> Hello All, >> >> Having just read the responses from all my first comment is absolutely OK, I >> am product owner role in this project and as as such will try to adhere to just >> that role. >> >> However, let me tell you that since I sent my first email this morning about >> source control, I did some work before I read the additional emails that are >> leaning torwards not using SCCS, so I will report here on that work, and >> then the team can decide what they want to do. >> >> Shamil, I stress again here I am not attempting to push my opinions about >> source control, just offering you the choice here, as I have already done a >> little work on it today. >> >> I played with codeplex but found it terribly slow and eventually I did not >> get it to work for me, I then googled the errors I was getting and saw other >> had the same errors. >> >> ========== >> I have created a subversion server so if you want to use it, you must do the >> following four steps >> >> 1) download and install TortiseSVN from the following URL >> http://tortoisesvn.net/downloads obviously choose the windows version you >> need 32 bit probably. >> (should finish in less than five mins, you do not need to reboot) >> >> >> 2) create a folder on your PC where you would like the source code to be >> stored and saved for you to work on. This will be the main working folder >> you will use when running VS2008 >> eg c:\scrum code\ >> or >> c:\my documents\Visual Studio 2005 >> (should be very quick) >> >> >> 3) right click on the new folder and go to your new context sensitive menu >> item tortise SVN and then from the submenu, click "create repository here". >> See the attached JPG. You will receive a msg box with the message, The >> repository was successfully created. >> (should also take just 30 seconds) >> >> last step >> 4) You just need to do a check out, from the server, once, to allow the >> client to know the address and authentication details, remember to click the >> check box to "remember the authentication details" >> again see the second jpg that I have attached to this email. The jpg has >> two steps including in one picture. >> >> the url that you need is >> >> https://www.sjai.org:8443/svn/scrum01 >> once you say OK, you can accept the suggestion to create a new folder and >> then you will be prompted for your username and password >> the users I have created are as follows >> >> username password >> -------- -------- >> shamil shamil09 >> john john09 >> mike mike09 >> doug doub09 >> gustav gustav09 >> >> >> When you check out, you should receive one text file, I created this >> afternoon named test.txt Feel free to update it with your name and anything >> else you feel like, or create a few new files and commit them to our >> respository. >> >> We can create new projects when we need to, but we may be happy with keeping >> it simple for this project. >> >> I have tested this server here in Ireland with the big .bak file that Shamil >> sent and it works well, if you want to try uploading a larger file, feel >> free. >> >> Finally, these steps are all working here, so if you one person would like >> to check that they work for you also, before the entire team spends time on >> it, it would be better. >> >> let me add that if you have use source control, you will know that it is >> really easy to work with and >> >> thanks >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2009/3/18 Salakhetdinov Shamil >> >> OK, Gustav, I agree, >> >> Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. >> >> CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: >> >> >> http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home >> >> but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or >> other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and >> we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Gustav Brock" >> To: >> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog >> PlanningGame... >> >> > Hi Shamil >> > >> > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to >> require some effort to set up and test. >> > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the >> Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: >> > >> > >> http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS >> > >> > /gustav >> > >> > >> > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> >> > >> > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> > >> > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we >> all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR >> can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those >> utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS >> this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with >> upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via >> .bat files... >> > >> > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if >> Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some >> files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use >> them? >> > >> > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code >> well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files >> in it to share... >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mark >> >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (creating a repository locally.JPG) >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (checking out for the first time.JPG) >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 13:13:34 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:13:34 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: to test - SCRUM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C139CE.1070000@gmail.com> I would ask that all members try to place the work SCRUM in the subject so that my filters can pick up all messages and place them in the right email box. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you, Mark, > > This is good news. > This is good that you made a proposal, and then came with a constructive solution very promptly :) > It's very much appreciated! > > Still I'd not force SCRUM team members to use this solution from the very beginning if they only do not want to try it by themselves: one of the main SCRUMMaster's roles AFAIG is to "shield" team members from any impediments coming from outside, especially from ProductOwner :) > > Well, I'm a kind of kidding for this certain our case with SCCS :) - in fact being a developer it is very tempting for me to try this solution with your server... > > But let's SCRUM team members decide by themselves? - please Gustav, Mike, John and Doug - based on tempting proposal of our respectful ProductOwner Mark would you like to start development next week with trying to setup SCC provided there will be first version of the source solution already there on our SCC Server? (I will try to put it there over weekend...) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Breen > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:17:38 +0000 > Subject: Fwd: to test > > >> Hello All, >> >> Having just read the responses from all my first comment is absolutely OK, I >> am product owner role in this project and as as such will try to adhere to just >> that role. >> >> However, let me tell you that since I sent my first email this morning about >> source control, I did some work before I read the additional emails that are >> leaning torwards not using SCCS, so I will report here on that work, and >> then the team can decide what they want to do. >> >> Shamil, I stress again here I am not attempting to push my opinions about >> source control, just offering you the choice here, as I have already done a >> little work on it today. >> >> I played with codeplex but found it terribly slow and eventually I did not >> get it to work for me, I then googled the errors I was getting and saw other >> had the same errors. >> >> ========== >> I have created a subversion server so if you want to use it, you must do the >> following four steps >> >> 1) download and install TortiseSVN from the following URL >> http://tortoisesvn.net/downloads obviously choose the windows version you >> need 32 bit probably. >> (should finish in less than five mins, you do not need to reboot) >> >> >> 2) create a folder on your PC where you would like the source code to be >> stored and saved for you to work on. This will be the main working folder >> you will use when running VS2008 >> eg c:\scrum code\ >> or >> c:\my documents\Visual Studio 2005 >> (should be very quick) >> >> >> 3) right click on the new folder and go to your new context sensitive menu >> item tortise SVN and then from the submenu, click "create repository here". >> See the attached JPG. You will receive a msg box with the message, The >> repository was successfully created. >> (should also take just 30 seconds) >> >> last step >> 4) You just need to do a check out, from the server, once, to allow the >> client to know the address and authentication details, remember to click the >> check box to "remember the authentication details" >> again see the second jpg that I have attached to this email. The jpg has >> two steps including in one picture. >> >> the url that you need is >> >> https://www.sjai.org:8443/svn/scrum01 >> once you say OK, you can accept the suggestion to create a new folder and >> then you will be prompted for your username and password >> the users I have created are as follows >> >> username password >> -------- -------- >> shamil shamil09 >> john john09 >> mike mike09 >> doug doub09 >> gustav gustav09 >> >> >> When you check out, you should receive one text file, I created this >> afternoon named test.txt Feel free to update it with your name and anything >> else you feel like, or create a few new files and commit them to our >> respository. >> >> We can create new projects when we need to, but we may be happy with keeping >> it simple for this project. >> >> I have tested this server here in Ireland with the big .bak file that Shamil >> sent and it works well, if you want to try uploading a larger file, feel >> free. >> >> Finally, these steps are all working here, so if you one person would like >> to check that they work for you also, before the entire team spends time on >> it, it would be better. >> >> let me add that if you have use source control, you will know that it is >> really easy to work with and >> >> thanks >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2009/3/18 Salakhetdinov Shamil >> >> OK, Gustav, I agree, >> >> Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. >> >> CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: >> >> >> http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home >> >> but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or >> other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and >> we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Gustav Brock" >> To: >> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog >> PlanningGame... >> >> > Hi Shamil >> > >> > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to >> require some effort to set up and test. >> > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the >> Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: >> > >> > >> http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS >> > >> > /gustav >> > >> > >> > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> >> > >> > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> > >> > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we >> all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR >> can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those >> utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS >> this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with >> upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via >> .bat files... >> > >> > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if >> Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some >> files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use >> them? >> > >> > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code >> well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files >> in it to share... >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mark >> >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (creating a repository locally.JPG) >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (checking out for the first time.JPG) >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 13:47:36 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:47:36 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team members, Still no e-mail with estimations from Doug. I have asked him today again to make the estimation worksheet and to send it to me for me to make and to publish combined worksheet. Let's wait for today, and if the estimations from Doug will not come we can start discussion based on our estimations and then Doug will join us? Thank you. -- Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W Colby > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning > Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > > > That sounds good to me also. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John > and myself. > > > > > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed > me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not > have time to make his estimations. > > > > > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to > come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this > project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but > taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for > experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly > design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as > shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's > SkyDrive). > > > > > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > > > > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application > in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that > done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > > > > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > estimations here - is that OK with you? > > > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore > there is some work to do in coordinating them. > > > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > > issues." > > > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > > > > > > > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > > >> > > >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > > >> I have made mine over weekend. > > >> > > >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come > today then I will immediately post all of them here to start > coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with > them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to > plan implementation/release... > > >> > > >> Thank you. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Shamil > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > >> To: dba-VB > > >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > > >> > > >> > > >>> Hi SCRUM Team, > > >>> > > >>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > values: > > >>> > > >>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > >>> > > >>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT > gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to > use them on the next estimation round. > > >>> > > >>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to > > >>> make first round estimantions as independent as possible - > > >>> http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > >>> > > >>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - > > >>> just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's > > >>> unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented > > >>> (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct > > >>> correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do > > > >>> here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer > > > >>> - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > >>> > > >>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > >>> > > >>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks > like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > >>> > > >>> Please ask your questions. > > >>> Please make your estimations. > > >>> > > >>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > >>> > > >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.D > > >>> ocuments/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > >>> > > >>> or here: > > >>> > > >>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > > >>> (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=S > > >>> CRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Thank you. > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Shamil > > >>> > > >>> P.S. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> FORMS > > >>> ===== > > >>> > > >>> 1 Categories > > >>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > >>> 3 Customer Orders > > >>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > >>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > >>> 6 Customer Phone List > > >>> 7 Customers => 2 > > >>> 8 Employees => 5 > > >>> 9 Main Switchboard > > >>> 10 Orders > > >>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > >>> 12 Product List > > >>> 13 Products > > >>> 14 Quarterly Orders > > >>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > >>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > >>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > >>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > >>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > >>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > >>> 21 Startup > > >>> 22 Suppliers > > >>> > > >>> REPORTS > > >>> ======= > > >>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > >>> 2 Catalog > > >>> 3 Catalog Subreport > > >>> 4 Customer Labels > > >>> 5 Employee Sales by Country > > >>> 6 Invoice => 5 > > >>> 7 Products by Category > > >>> 8 Sales by Category > > >>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > >>> 10 Sales by Year > > >>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > >>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > >>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > >>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> dba-VB mailing list > > >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> dba-VB mailing list > > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 14:36:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:36:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team members, I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:47:36 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > Hi SCRUM team members, > > Still no e-mail with estimations from Doug. > I have asked him today again to make the estimation worksheet and to send it to me for me to make and to publish combined worksheet. > > Let's wait for today, and if the estimations from Doug will not come we can start discussion based on our estimations and then Doug will join us? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W Colby > > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning > > Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > > > That sounds good to me also. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > > > > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John > > and myself. > > > > > > > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed > > me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not > > have time to make his estimations. > > > > > > > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to > > come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this > > project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but > > taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for > > experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly > > design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as > > shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's > > SkyDrive). > > > > > > > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > > > > > > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application > > in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that > > done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > > > > > > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > > estimations here - is that OK with you? > > > > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore > > there is some work to do in coordinating them. > > > > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > > > issues." > > > > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > >> > > > >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > > > >> I have made mine over weekend. > > > >> > > > >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come > > today then I will immediately post all of them here to start > > coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with > > them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to > > plan implementation/release... > > > >> > > > >> Thank you. > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Shamil > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > >> To: dba-VB > > > >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > > > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> Hi SCRUM Team, > > > >>> > > > >>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > > values: > > > >>> > > > >>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > >>> > > > >>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT > > gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to > > use them on the next estimation round. > > > >>> > > > >>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to > > > >>> make first round estimantions as independent as possible - > > > >>> http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > > >>> > > > >>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - > > > >>> just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's > > > >>> unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented > > > >>> (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct > > > >>> correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do > > > > > >>> here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer > > > > > >>> - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > > >>> > > > >>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > > >>> > > > >>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks > > like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > > >>> > > > >>> Please ask your questions. > > > >>> Please make your estimations. > > > >>> > > > >>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > > >>> > > > >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.D > > > >>> ocuments/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > > >>> > > > >>> or here: > > > >>> > > > >>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > > > >>> (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=S > > > >>> CRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Thank you. > > > >>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Shamil > > > >>> > > > >>> P.S. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> FORMS > > > >>> ===== > > > >>> > > > >>> 1 Categories > > > >>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > > >>> 3 Customer Orders > > > >>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > > >>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > > >>> 6 Customer Phone List > > > >>> 7 Customers => 2 > > > >>> 8 Employees => 5 > > > >>> 9 Main Switchboard > > > >>> 10 Orders > > > >>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > > >>> 12 Product List > > > >>> 13 Products > > > >>> 14 Quarterly Orders > > > >>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > > >>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > > >>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > > >>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > > >>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > > >>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > > >>> 21 Startup > > > >>> 22 Suppliers > > > >>> > > > >>> REPORTS > > > >>> ======= > > > >>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > > >>> 2 Catalog > > > >>> 3 Catalog Subreport > > > >>> 4 Customer Labels > > > >>> 5 Employee Sales by Country > > > >>> 6 Invoice => 5 > > > >>> 7 Products by Category > > > >>> 8 Sales by Category > > > >>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > > >>> 10 Sales by Year > > > >>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > > >>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > > >>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > > >>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > > >>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> dba-VB mailing list > > > >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> dba-VB mailing list > > > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 15:15:00 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:15:00 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C15644.3050803@gmail.com> Shamil, I receive "item seems to be missing" from the first link. I got it off the second link. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:47:36 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > >> Hi SCRUM team members, >> >> Still no e-mail with estimations from Doug. >> I have asked him today again to make the estimation worksheet and to send it to me for me to make and to publish combined worksheet. >> >> Let's wait for today, and if the estimations from Doug will not come we can start discussion based on our estimations and then Doug will join us? >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: John W Colby >>> To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning >>> Visual Basic and related programming issues." >>> >>> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >>> Game... >>> >>> >>>> That sounds good to me also. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi SCRUM team at all, >>>>> >>>>> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John >>>>> >>> and myself. >>> >>>>> I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed >>>>> >>> me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not >>> have time to make his estimations. >>> >>>>> What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to >>>>> >>> come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this >>> project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but >>> taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for >>> experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly >>> design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as >>> shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's >>> SkyDrive). >>> >>>>> I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting >>>>> >>> mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members >>> beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any >>> NorthWind .NET form or report... >>> >>>>> I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application >>>>> >>> in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that >>> done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... >>> >>>>> When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our >>>>> >>> estimations here - is that OK with you? >>> >>>>> I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore >>>>> >>> there is some work to do in coordinating them. >>> >>>>> In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial >>>>> >>> planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week >>> discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but >>> discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related >>> issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? >>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >>>>> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >>>>> issues." >>>>> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 >>>>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >>>>> >>> Game... >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi SCRUM team at all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >>>>>> I have made mine over weekend. >>>>>> >>>>>> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come >>>>>> >>> today then I will immediately post all of them here to start >>> coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with >>> them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to >>> plan implementation/release... >>> >>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Shamil >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >>>>>> To: dba-VB >>>>>> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >>>>>> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >>>>>> >>> Game... >>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi SCRUM Team, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product >>>>>>> >>> backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following >>> values: >>> >>>>>>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT >>>>>>> >>> gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to >>> use them on the next estimation round. >>> >>>>>>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to >>>>>>> make first round estimantions as independent as possible - >>>>>>> http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - >>>>>>> just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's >>>>>>> unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented >>>>>>> (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct >>>>>>> correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do >>>>>>> >>>>>>> here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in >>>>>>> >>> WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >>> >>>>>>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks >>>>>>> >>> like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >>> >>>>>>> Please ask your questions. >>>>>>> Please make your estimations. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.D >>>>>>> ocuments/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> or here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html >>>>>>> (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=S >>>>>>> CRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Shamil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> P.S. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> FORMS >>>>>>> ===== >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1 Categories >>>>>>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >>>>>>> 3 Customer Orders >>>>>>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >>>>>>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >>>>>>> 6 Customer Phone List >>>>>>> 7 Customers => 2 >>>>>>> 8 Employees => 5 >>>>>>> 9 Main Switchboard >>>>>>> 10 Orders >>>>>>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 >>>>>>> 12 Product List >>>>>>> 13 Products >>>>>>> 14 Quarterly Orders >>>>>>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >>>>>>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >>>>>>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >>>>>>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >>>>>>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog >>>>>>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog >>>>>>> 21 Startup >>>>>>> 22 Suppliers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> REPORTS >>>>>>> ======= >>>>>>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >>>>>>> 2 Catalog >>>>>>> 3 Catalog Subreport >>>>>>> 4 Customer Labels >>>>>>> 5 Employee Sales by Country >>>>>>> 6 Invoice => 5 >>>>>>> 7 Products by Category >>>>>>> 8 Sales by Category >>>>>>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport >>>>>>> 10 Sales by Year >>>>>>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport >>>>>>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount >>>>>>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >>>>>>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> dba-VB mailing list >>>>>>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>>>>>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> dba-VB mailing list >>>>>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>>>>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> dba-VB mailing list >>>>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>>>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 18 15:56:52 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... References: Message-ID: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> I've got it, thanks. I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, if called upon to do so! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with > all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not > have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation > numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original > plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend > rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > up&running. > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please > post your considerations. > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes > several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number > of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they > will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 16:39:49 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:39:49 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> I'm a little surprised at the high estimates myself. I was told to estimate times similar to doing it in Access and it would never take more than a few minutes to set up simple subforms for example. I estimated .5 hours for most of the subforms but everyone else estimates an hour or even more. Of course my estimates are not based on actual form dev work in .Net since I have none. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mike Mattys wrote: > I've got it, thanks. > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > if called upon to do so! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 18 16:46:19 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:46:19 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> Message-ID: Trust me, John, it can go either way. Depends largely on how you handle the data population. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:40 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... I'm a little surprised at the high estimates myself. I was told to estimate times similar to doing it in Access and it would never take more than a few minutes to set up simple subforms for example. I estimated .5 hours for most of the subforms but everyone else estimates an hour or even more. Of course my estimates are not based on actual form dev work in .Net since I have none. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mike Mattys wrote: > I've got it, thanks. > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, if called upon > to do so! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 19 01:50:58 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:50:58 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... Message-ID: Hi Shamil This is fine for me. The reason for my high estimates is that I probably spend more time on design as sloppy design for most clients and users indicates a sloppy application. Also, I've found that even when a task seems to be fast to get finished, you (I) often spend some time on evaluation of alternative methods - as Charlotte has mentioned multiple times, you often find that a task can be done in multiple ways. For this project where design is bound I may, however, have been too pessimistic. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 18-03-2009 20:36 >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 13:43:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:43:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNDUlVNOiBOb3J0aHdpbmQgLk5FVFBy?= =?koi8-r?b?b2R1Y3QJQmFja0xvZ1BsYW5uaW5nIEdhbWUuLi4=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, That's OK. Yes, I'd propose to use in this reports forms and reports bound to strongly typed datasets - this approach will let us to concentrate on designs and to have a a little coding - good for our team as we have members who are only startings developing in .NET but they have good experience with MS Access, and designing of .NET bound forms and reports should be relatively easuy for them to start with... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:50:58 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NETProduct BackLogPlanning Game... > Hi Shamil > > This is fine for me. > > The reason for my high estimates is that I probably spend more time on design as sloppy design for most clients and users indicates a sloppy application. Also, I've found that even when a task seems to be fast to get finished, you (I) often spend some time on evaluation of alternative methods - as Charlotte has mentioned multiple times, you often find that a task can be done in multiple ways. For this project where design is bound I may, however, have been too pessimistic. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 18-03-2009 20:36 >>> > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 13:52:44 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:52:44 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNDUlVNOiBOb3J0aHdpbmQgLk5FVFBy?= =?koi8-r?b?b2R1Y3QJQmFja0xvZ1BsYW5uaW5nIEdhbWUuLi4=?= In-Reply-To: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> References: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi John, First of all I'd note you seems to be very quick with MS Access forms and reports design :) We will try to fit your estimations but I'd propose we'd better have almost twice more time planned for this project (as AVG valu currently gives) to not make this project stressful - just fun of teamwork development. Yes, developing bound to datasets .NET WinForms and reports is similar in my opinion to manual design of bound MS Access forms/reports I'd even think that VS forms' layout design features (placing controls, alighing them etc.) is more powerful that in MS Access but you and Mike and Doug will still need time to adapt to all that features - hence better have as twice time as in our estimation... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: John W Colby To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:39:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NETProduct BackLogPlanning Game... > I'm a little surprised at the high estimates myself. I was told to > estimate times similar to doing it in Access and it would never take > more than a few minutes to set up simple subforms for example. I > estimated .5 hours for most of the subforms but everyone else estimates > an hour or even more. > > Of course my estimates are not based on actual form dev work in .Net > since I have none. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Mike Mattys wrote: > > I've got it, thanks. > > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > > if called upon to do so! > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 13:57:40 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:57:40 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > I've got it, thanks. > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > if called upon to do so! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning > Game... > > > > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with > > all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not > > have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > > estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation > > numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original > > plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend > > rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > > up&running. > > > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please > > post your considerations. > > > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes > > several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number > > of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they > > will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 19 14:18:21 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:18:21 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> Do I mean ...? :) Actually, I've never used it before so I wouldn't venture any such guesses. Lead on, Shamil, I'll try to follow. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > Hi Mike, > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) > should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - > which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then > we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 14:34:27 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:34:27 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> References: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you, Mike. If every SCRUM member agree I can pass the current set of estimations to ProductOwner for him to propose in what sequence he wanted to get forms and reports developed. OK? Also we will have to discuss (next week or later) what should be actual navigation between forms and reports as in the source MS Access NorthWind application not all forms and reports are available to be opened while navigating this sample MS Access application. For starters I'd just create an additional "fake switchboard" form to have all the other forms and reports available to be opened from this "fake switchboard". Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:18:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > Do I mean ...? :) > > Actually, I've never used it before > so I wouldn't venture any such guesses. > > Lead on, Shamil, I'll try to follow. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:57 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning > Game... > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) > > should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - > > which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then > > we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > From jwcolby at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 15:03:44 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:03:44 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C2A520.4010105@gmail.com> Agreed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you, Mike. > > If every SCRUM member agree I can pass the current set of estimations to ProductOwner for him to propose in what sequence he wanted to get forms and reports developed. OK? > > Also we will have to discuss (next week or later) what should be actual navigation between forms and reports as in the source MS Access NorthWind application not all forms and reports are available to be opened while navigating this sample MS Access application. For starters I'd just create an additional "fake switchboard" form to have all the other forms and reports available to be opened from this "fake switchboard". > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:18:21 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > >> Do I mean ...? :) >> >> Actually, I've never used it before >> so I wouldn't venture any such guesses. >> >> Lead on, Shamil, I'll try to follow. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:57 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning >> Game... >> >> >> >>> Hi Mike, >>> >>> Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) >>> should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - >>> which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then >>> we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 15:05:00 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > >> I've got it, thanks. >> I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, >> if called upon to do so! >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning >> Game... >> >> >> >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, >>> >>> I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with >>> all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: >>> >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 >>> >>> Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not >>> have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) >>> >>> In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all >>> estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation >>> numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >>> >>> The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original >>> plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. >>> Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. >>> >>> If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend >>> rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control >>> up&running. >>> >>> If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please >>> post your considerations. >>> >>> Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes >>> several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number >>> of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. >>> >>> Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they >>> will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... >>> >>> I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: >>> >>> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 16:54:45 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:54:45 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmdHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi John, When we talked originally on this project it was planned to do it in one month with every team member spending not more than one hour within a working day, which totals to 20-22 hours per member per month - approx. 100 hours for 5 team members. (Note: anybody can spend that five hours within one day within a week if they have free time or split them within two days etc. but it's important to have equal amount of total time spent every week - important for planning/predictability etc. - to calculate team velocity...) If we will not fit 100 hours max value some of the ProductBackLog items will be left undone - then ProductOwner can decide shall there be a follow-up or not - this is how SCRUM process handles ProductBackLog items based on realistic approach/assumption/real life experience that if project time frame was underestimated then there should be some ProductBackLog items left undone: SCRUM team shouldn't work extra hours (for free) etc. to get all the work done... Yes, that may sound idealistic on first glance but the more projects a team completes the more precise their estimations become, and the more trust is created between team + SCRUMMaster and ProductOwner + StakeHolders/Users - the latter know/trust that SCRUM team does their best... Somehere in the middle when it will be more clear how well we perform (or earlier or later) ProductOwner could rearrange ProductBackLog items implementation sequence to have as much as possible and the most required items done within given (left) time frame (and budget in real life case)... Maybe I'm too optimistic but I currently suppose we should make all the forms/reports in less than 100 hours... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: John W Colby To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... > Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total > value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle > that. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > > > > >> I've got it, thanks. > >> I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > >> if called upon to do so! > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning > >> Game... > >> > >> > >> > >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, > >>> > >>> I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with > >>> all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > >>> > >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > >>> > >>> Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not > >>> have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > >>> > >>> In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > >>> estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation > >>> numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > >>> > >>> The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original > >>> plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > >>> Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > >>> > >>> If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend > >>> rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > >>> up&running. > >>> > >>> If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please > >>> post your considerations. > >>> > >>> Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes > >>> several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number > >>> of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > >>> > >>> Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they > >>> will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > >>> > >>> I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > >>> > >>> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Shamil > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 17:57:05 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:57:05 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... In-Reply-To: References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49C2CDC1.3060209@gmail.com> Understood. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John, > > When we talked originally on this project it was planned to do it in one month with every team member spending not more than one hour within a working day, which totals to 20-22 hours per member per month - approx. 100 hours for 5 team members. (Note: anybody can spend that five hours within one day within a week if they have free time or split them within two days etc. but it's important to have equal amount of total time spent every week - important for planning/predictability etc. - to calculate team velocity...) > > If we will not fit 100 hours max value some of the ProductBackLog items will be left undone - then ProductOwner can decide shall there be a follow-up or not - this is how SCRUM process handles ProductBackLog items based on realistic approach/assumption/real life experience that if project time frame was underestimated then there should be some ProductBackLog items left undone: SCRUM team shouldn't work extra hours (for free) etc. to get all the work done... > > Yes, that may sound idealistic on first glance but the more projects a team completes the more precise their estimations become, and the more trust is created between team + SCRUMMaster and ProductOwner + StakeHolders/Users - the latter know/trust that SCRUM team does their best... > > Somehere in the middle when it will be more clear how well we perform (or earlier or later) ProductOwner could rearrange ProductBackLog items implementation sequence to have as much as possible and the most required items done within given (left) time frame (and budget in real life case)... > > Maybe I'm too optimistic but I currently suppose we should make all the forms/reports in less than 100 hours... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W Colby > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... > > >> Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total >> value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle >> that. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> > From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 19 21:01:47 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:01:47 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Has it been decided to move this back to AccessD? I have seen a lot of traffic on this subject on that list. I need to filter these messages to a specific folder so I don't loose them. When there is a lot of traffic on the D list I tend to group and do bulk deletes on items. Doug From marklbreen at gmail.com Fri Mar 20 04:41:31 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:41:31 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... In-Reply-To: References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Shamil, I have one or two questions on scrum techniques. In the estimates, the product owner has to make some judgement calls on which items to drop, and which items to include. Or let me phrase that better, the product owner has to prioritise his importance of the items, in the hope that he receives all, but if he does not, then he must decide which items to exclude. Background of question first My personal instinct, and the behavior of most people I know will be to seek some additional information from the 'supplier' as to why feature a takes one hour and feature b takes 5 hours. I would expect that most people would assume that this background information assists them in their decision process, as they are making it from a position of knowledge. Also, as a product owner in this case, I imagine that there is a certain element of risk / gambling on the product owners behalf, i.e. do I place this feature (a 5 hour estimate) at the top of the list, and guarantee its delivery, or do I drop it down the list, and guarantee five other (1 hour) features. My instinct at this point is that most people will desire a little background on the justifications for why one item is one hour and one item is five hours. Now the question to our ScrumMaster In this new world, is the above appropriate thinking on behalf of the product owner. Do I / should I re-program my brain to accept blindly the estimates and focus only on what is important as a delivered feature and NOT on why feature A takes five times the time to produce feature B. If I take this blind leap of faith, will I eventually produce more accurate views on what is important to my business? i.e. should the product owner keep their nose out of the programmers area and stick to being product owner. Question 2 In a larger project than this one, but even in this small project there are synergies, IOW, the work to produce the suppliers form, may be identical to the work to produce the categories form. Should the product owner know there there is some virtual grouping here? Or once again, should he keep his dirty nose out of these types of concepts. I think you answer will be yes, he should keep his nose out and leave that to the scrum team. Question 3 When are we ready for me to prioritise the list 2009/3/19 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi John, > > When we talked originally on this project it was planned to do it in one > month with every team member spending not more than one hour within a > working day, which totals to 20-22 hours per member per month - approx. 100 > hours for 5 team members. (Note: anybody can spend that five hours within > one day within a week if they have free time or split them within two days > etc. but it's important to have equal amount of total time spent every week > - important for planning/predictability etc. - to calculate team > velocity...) > > If we will not fit 100 hours max value some of the ProductBackLog items > will be left undone - then ProductOwner can decide shall there be a > follow-up or not - this is how SCRUM process handles ProductBackLog items > based on realistic approach/assumption/real life experience that if project > time frame was underestimated then there should be some ProductBackLog items > left undone: SCRUM team shouldn't work extra hours (for free) etc. to get > all the work done... > > Yes, that may sound idealistic on first glance but the more projects a team > completes the more precise their estimations become, and the more trust is > created between team + SCRUMMaster and ProductOwner + StakeHolders/Users - > the latter know/trust that SCRUM team does their best... > > Somehere in the middle when it will be more clear how well we perform (or > earlier or later) ProductOwner could rearrange ProductBackLog items > implementation sequence to have as much as possible and the most required > items done within given (left) time frame (and budget in real life case)... > > Maybe I'm too optimistic but I currently suppose we should make all the > forms/reports in less than 100 hours... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W Colby > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product > BackLogPlanningGame... > > > Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total > > value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle > > that. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) > should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - > which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we > will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning > Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product > BackLogPlanning Game... > > > > > > > > >> I've got it, thanks. > > >> I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > > >> if called upon to do so! > > >> > > >> - > > >> Michael R Mattys > > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > >> - > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > > >> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product > BackLogPlanning > > >> Game... > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, > > >>> > > >>> I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook > with > > >>> all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > >>> > > >>> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > >>> > > >>> Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do > not > > >>> have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > >>> > > >>> In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > > >>> estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM > evaluation > > >>> numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > >>> > > >>> The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our > original > > >>> plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > > >>> Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > >>> > > >>> If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and > spend > > >>> rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > > >>> up&running. > > >>> > > >>> If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - > please > > >>> post your considerations. > > >>> > > >>> Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually > takes > > >>> several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total > number > > >>> of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > >>> > > >>> Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever > they > > >>> will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > >>> > > >>> I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > >>> > > >>> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > >>> > > >>> Thank you. > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Shamil > > >>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 20 10:14:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:14:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNDUlVNOiBOb3J0aHdpbmQgLk5FVCBQ?= =?koi8-r?b?cm9kdWN0IEJhY2tMb2dQbGFubmluZ0dhbWUuLi4=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark and SCRUM Team Members, Thank you for your questions Mark. Here are my answers: Question 1: Yes. Question 2: Yes :) Question 3: I think we're ready now - please use http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip to split ProductBackLog into 3 SCRUM Sprints: 1st: 43 "evaluation points" long (2 weeks) 2nd: 22 "evaluation points" long (1 week) 2nd: 22 "evaluation points" long (1 week) (in reality that Sprint planning is more through procedure but let's try to make it light here this time and see how it will work) Please feel free to skip the following lengthy explanations and maybe just read the referenced in P.S. SCRUM methodology stuff. According to my current understanding of SCRUM practices ProductOwner can't communicate directly with team on issues why this or that ProductBackLog position "weights" this or that much. I'm giving references on the SCRUM methodologies' entries below for you and our SCRUM team members to check my understanding. Please read them (they are in total words not much longer than your e-mail), and I think then you will be able to answer your questions by yourself. If not, please ask them again or ask the new ones if needed - and we will try to come to the common ground - SCRUM isn't a "new religion" but a constantly improving methodologies/practice of agile software development... I must say I was not very strictly following SCRUM methodology proposing to the team members to evaluate ProductBackLog items in "ideal hours" - "ideal hour" term is from XP/agile but in SCRUM ProductBackLog items are estimated using abstract "measuring units": one can use "kilograms", another one "pounds", third one "liters" etc. I asked to use "ideal hours" to just "get it(estimation) done" as quick as possible because everybody usually estimate possible workload in time measuring units: hours, days, months... We need something for starters - later on when we will have some statistics on our performance (SCRUM team velocity) we will be able to estimate using more abstract "estimation points"... If everybody interested I can "open my secret" how I did estimate our project BackLogItems - I can say now that this estimation wasn't using directly time related measurement units IOW it could have been wrong in many positions: as you can see my estimation was rather close to Mike's one and is about 20% lower than average we plan to use (as everybody agreed?) as our max time frame. I just wanted to tell that if we estimate now that FormA "weights" 3 "ideal hours" or "kilograms" and FormB "weights" 1 "ideal hour" or "kilogram" then when they will be implemented it may happen that it was spent 1 real hour (or half an hour) to develop FormA and 3 (or 3.5) "real hours" (or "kilograms" of bananas eaten while developing this form?) but they were *done* within one SCRUM sprint, and this means (if nothing else was done) that SCCUM team velocity is 4 ProductBackLog "points" per SCRUM sprint (SCRUM sprint usually takes 1 to 4 weeks). Using that statistics we can plan the next SCRUM sprint (usually statistics for the last 5-8 Sprints are used during next Sprint planning, or statistics of the less "speedy" Sprint, most "speedy" Sprint and one from the "middle speed" for the last 5-8 Sprints... Am I clear enough about this SCRUM evaluation and Sprints planning? If not please ask more questions and I will try to answer them by myself and by giving some more references to read. I must say this is the first time I'm explaining/trying to explain that subject here - IOW we all are learning by doing here now. I have seen how it works in practice but that weren't software projects we used to implement during CSM course. But my SCRUM Trainer used similar SCRUM practices with SCRUM Teams in BusinessWeek and Yahoo and they worked well for them... I'd also propose for us to have 3 SCRUM Sprints during the coming month: 1. 2 weeks long 2. 1 week long 3. 1 week long And I'd suppose/expect that first 2 weeks long SCRUM Sprint should be considered a success if we will make as many "evaluation points" during it as we will do during the shorter 2nd and 3rd one... When you will read the referenced below short articles on SCRUM Sprint planning you will find that ProductOwner communicates with the team while getting to be developed items into next Sprint area/plan and asking team can it be done within that Sprint or not - team can agree/commit to do it or can reject but ProductOwner can't "push" on team and ask why they think they can't do that item if it "weights" say X "ideal hours" and there is still a room in the next Sprint for that item to be done. Here is where SCRUMMaster should take his facilitating role/position to negotiate such ProductBackLog positions with team but without the presence of ProductOwner... All in all ProductOwner does and should communicate very closely with the SCRUM team and he/she has the whole picture of the project progress as in real life case team velocity is measured and published every day based on completed (DONE) Sprint items. But ProductOwner is "forbidden" to push the team, to ask "provocative" questions, to change Sprint items during the started Sprint etc. - this is how I understand these SCRUM practices... I should also note that in real life ProductBackLog items are also getting split into tasks during Sprint planning phase - we're not doing that split now because of our distributed in time mainly offline way of working, and because most of ProductBackLog items beeing rather clear to everybody... And I should also note/underline that SCRUM team velocity is measured only using "Done" (accepted) ProductBackLog positions - if a position is 99.99% "done" it isn't used in calculating SCRUM Team velocity... Mark, knowing your ability to summarize very well I expect you will come here at dba-VB with several sentences summarizing what I have written above and what I have referenced below, and answering very shortly your own questions. Please if you do not have any more questions to discuss put the first set of items from this ProductBackLog (http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip ) into first 2 weeks long Sprint. This Sprint is expected to "weight" max 5*5*2 = 50 "evaluation unit points". Please leave some free room in it - let's say 10%. Please note that if the SCRUM team will manage to do 50 points within the first week or first week and the half then this is OK to add more ProductBackLog items to be done (or started) within the first Sprint. But the more probable result will be we will not fit the first SCRUM sprint ProductBackLog - no problem if that will even be half of the backlog not done as this usually happens with new teams. The problem/issue will be when we will not manage to make all ProductBackLog implemented during the whole month long project within three Sprints. Well, I'm wiring "problem" but let's keep it easy here as this is more fun than real work what we're doing here - a SCRUM Club as dba-VB where we all are learning the new things, which are supposed to work well in real life projects we're doing for money+. I'd also propose to measure our team "daily velocity" using every week results as every week should take 5 hours of work of every team member - let's call these 5 hours "a working day"+ If we will be "equally speedy" during all the four weeks then our team velocity will be 87/4 = ~22 "evaluation points per working day" , and we can use these stats while planning other projects, and you as the ProductOwner will know that all is "transparent and clear here" - and SCRUM team is doing their best+ Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Scrum Effort Estimation and Story Points http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-effort-estimation-and-story-points/ "In the Sprint Planning Meeting, the team sits down to estimate its effort for the stories in the backlog. The Product Owner needs these estimates, so that he or she is empowered to effectively prioritize items in the backlog and, as a result, forecast releases based on velocity the team's velocity. This means the Product Owner needs an honest appraisal of how difficult work will be. Thus it is recommended that the Product Owner does not observe the estimation process to avoid pressuring (intentionally or otherwise) a team to reduce its effort estimates and take on more work. Even when the team estimates amongst itself, actions should be taken to reduce influencing how a team estimates. As such, it is recommended that all team members disclose their estimates simultaneously." SCRUM Meetings http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-meetings/ "At this point, the Product Owner is typically asked to leave while the team decomposes the sprint backlog items into tasks. While the Product Owner is asked to leave so that the team can candidly discuss the work, he or she is still expected to be "on call" to answer questions, clarify acceptance criteria, or renegotiate. This meeting, which was previously called the sprint definition meeting, is also time-boxed to four hours to limit all sprint planning activities to a single day's time." SCRUM Impediment http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-impediments/ SCRUM Product Owner http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-product-owner/ The ScrumMaster Role http://scrummethodology.com/the-scrummaster-role/ -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:41:31 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... > Hello Shamil, > I have one or two questions on scrum techniques. > > In the estimates, the product owner has to make some judgement calls on > which items to drop, and which items to include. Or let me phrase that > better, the product owner has to prioritise his importance of the items, in > the hope that he receives all, but if he does not, then he must decide which > items to exclude. > > Background of question first > My personal instinct, and the behavior of most people I know will be to seek > some additional information from the 'supplier' as to why feature a takes > one hour and feature b takes 5 hours. I would expect that most people > would assume that this background information assists them in their decision > process, as they are making it from a position of knowledge. Also, as a > product owner in this case, I imagine that there is a certain element of > risk / gambling on the product owners behalf, i.e. do I place this feature > (a 5 hour estimate) at the top of the list, and guarantee its delivery, or > do I drop it down the list, and guarantee five other (1 hour) features. My > instinct at this point is that most people will desire a little background > on the justifications for why one item is one hour and one item is five > hours. > > > Now the question to our ScrumMaster > In this new world, is the above appropriate thinking on behalf of the > product owner. Do I / should I re-program my brain to accept blindly the > estimates and focus only on what is important as a delivered feature and NOT > on why feature A takes five times the time to produce feature B. If I take > this blind leap of faith, will I eventually produce more accurate views on > what is important to my business? i.e. should the product owner keep their > nose out of the programmers area and stick to being product owner. > > > Question 2 > In a larger project than this one, but even in this small project there are > synergies, IOW, the work to produce the suppliers form, may be identical to > the work to produce the categories form. Should the product owner know > there there is some virtual grouping here? Or once again, should he keep > his dirty nose out of these types of concepts. I think you answer will be > yes, he should keep his nose out and leave that to the scrum team. > > Question 3 > When are we ready for me to prioritise the list > > > > > < snip> From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 20 10:17:18 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:17:18 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmUgU0NSVU0gUHJvamVjdCBCYWNrbG9n?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Doug, No, we're keeping SCRUM related discussion in dba-Vb with "SCRUM" keyword in the subject line to tune e-mail filtering to a special mailbox on our mail clients... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Doug Murphy" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:01:47 -0700 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > > Has it been decided to move this back to AccessD? I have seen a lot of > traffic on this subject on that list. I need to filter these messages to a > specific folder so I don't loose them. When there is a lot of traffic on the > D list I tend to group and do bulk deletes on items. > > Doug > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 20 11:07:52 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:07:52 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET ProductBackLogPlanningGame... References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mark, I hadn't looked into the nature of your role. Thanks for asking these weighty questions, the more the better. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Breen" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 5:41 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET ProductBackLogPlanningGame... > Hello Shamil, > I have one or two questions on scrum techniques. > > In the estimates, the product owner has to make some judgement calls on > which items to drop, and which items to include. Or let me phrase that > better, the product owner has to prioritise his importance of the items, > in > the hope that he receives all, but if he does not, then he must decide > which > items to exclude. > > Background of question first > My personal instinct, and the behavior of most people I know will be to > seek > some additional information from the 'supplier' as to why feature a takes > one hour and feature b takes 5 hours. I would expect that most people > would assume that this background information assists them in their > decision > process, as they are making it from a position of knowledge. Also, as a > product owner in this case, I imagine that there is a certain element of > risk / gambling on the product owners behalf, i.e. do I place this feature > (a 5 hour estimate) at the top of the list, and guarantee its delivery, or > do I drop it down the list, and guarantee five other (1 hour) features. > My > instinct at this point is that most people will desire a little background > on the justifications for why one item is one hour and one item is five > hours. > > > Now the question to our ScrumMaster > In this new world, is the above appropriate thinking on behalf of the > product owner. Do I / should I re-program my brain to accept blindly the > estimates and focus only on what is important as a delivered feature and > NOT > on why feature A takes five times the time to produce feature B. If I > take > this blind leap of faith, will I eventually produce more accurate views on > what is important to my business? i.e. should the product owner keep > their > nose out of the programmers area and stick to being product owner. > > > Question 2 > In a larger project than this one, but even in this small project there > are > synergies, IOW, the work to produce the suppliers form, may be identical > to > the work to produce the categories form. Should the product owner know > there there is some virtual grouping here? Or once again, should he keep > his dirty nose out of these types of concepts. I think you answer will be > yes, he should keep his nose out and leave that to the scrum team. > > Question 3 > When are we ready for me to prioritise the list From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 23 13:49:19 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and All, Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to start with. I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the files from there. I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the source files there, and then see how it will work with check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and then publish the new solution with all updates.) Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the coming months. To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do you need some more input from us to make this To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess (http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process tracing/management tool+ Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive Documents NorthWind.NET DataBase NorthwindNET.mdf NorthwindNET_log.ldf NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip 2. NET Winforms solution to start with MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive Documents NorthWind.NET Conversion Project Northwind.NET_20090323.zip From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 23 13:54:47 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line wraps): 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database NorthwindNET.mdf NorthwindNET_log.ldf NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip 2. NET Winforms solution to start with https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project Northwind.NET_20090323.zip -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to start with. > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the files from there. > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the source files there, and then see how it will work with check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the coming months. > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do you need some more input from us to make this > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess (http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process tracing/management tool+ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > MS Live dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > DataBase > NorthwindNET.mdf > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > MS Live dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 23 15:14:34 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:14:34 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: - Tortoise SVN http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ Everything worked smoothly. Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within Visual Studio. Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line wraps): > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > NorthwindNET.mdf > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to start with. > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the files from there. > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the source files there, and then see how it will work with check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the coming months. > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do you need some more input from us to make this > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess (http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process tracing/management tool+ > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > SkyDrive > > Documents > > NorthWind.NET > > DataBase > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > SkyDrive > > Documents > > NorthWind.NET > > Conversion Project > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 23 15:19:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:19:58 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project References: Message-ID: <09982C6AF9724D808153FC94C44D53E6@Mattys> Hi Shamil, Thanks! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > wraps): From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon Mar 23 18:02:22 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:02:22 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Group, I have updated the Excel sheet that contains the estimates to include the product owners choices. Based on my selections, you appears to need 39 units of work out of the total 87 units for work estimated. I hope that I understand this all correctly and that I have made appropriate selections. I tried to select simple forms initially, but as Shamil has suggested that we do approx 40 units in the first week, I had to include almost all the forms. I do hope that is OK. To pad the numbers, I include a few reports also, again, I hope that it is OK that I have given so much work in the first phase. Shamil, if I have something wrong here, please let me know, so that I can update / correct my selections. In our source code repository, I have created a new folder named documents, and placed the newest file in there. I hope it will download for you all. Let me know if you cannot connect to it. For those that are observing the project from a distance, I have uploaded the spreadsheet here also to the skydrive account. If anyone wants to email me, I can also directly forward them the doc. https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1 FYI, when I click my folder here on my laptop and right clicked and selected SVN Update, I immediately got the latest files from Shamil including all source code. When you do the same, you will get his files and also my new version of the excel doc. Not only that, but we can all see that we are now on version 8 of the source code, I did the first few, and it looks like Shamil did about five updates today, I hope this logging is useful to the team. Any questions, just ask. Shamil, if I am not behaving as ideal product owner, please steer me in the right direction. thanks all, Mark 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > - Tortoise SVN > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > Everything worked smoothly. > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > Visual Studio. > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > wraps): > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: dba-VB > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > start with. > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > files from there. > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > source files there, and then see how it will work with > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > coming months. > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > DataBase > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > Conversion Project > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon Mar 23 18:16:19 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:16:19 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Scrum Team, I will just add here additional comment. As you can see, Shamil has highlighted that you can purchase a Visual Studio integrated tool for subversion. but let me just note that you do not need to use this integrated tool. You can get started with what we have here, for free, if you enjoy working with the source code control, then you can always spend money to make it even more streamlined, but until you try out the concept, you do not need to spend anything. Just my short note. Remember, with SCCS (Source Code Control Software), you can always retreive a revision from six revisions ago, imagine being able to go back and get the code you had last sat between 16:00 and 18:00. One final note, just in case the obvious is not so obvious, you can also use SCCS to store recipies for cookies, or your latest business plan, or the packing list for the holidays, or you entire my documents directory. IOW, SCCS, does not have to be just a programmers tool. But please do not upload you entire my docs to this server :) thanks Mark 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > - Tortoise SVN > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > Everything worked smoothly. > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > Visual Studio. > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > wraps): > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: dba-VB > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > start with. > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > files from there. > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > source files there, and then see how it will work with > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > coming months. > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > DataBase > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > Conversion Project > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 04:51:49 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:51:49 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark and SCRUM team, I just noted that I used Visual SVN trial version because I liked it. I will probably purchase it, not sure yet but it definitely saves some time comparing to command line/Tortoise SVN. But I'm probably currently, while establishing development infrastrcuture, committing new sources too often - if committing them one time a day then command line/Torsoise SVN should be good enough. BTW, AFAIK commiting via command line can be automated using windows batch files IOW it can be "one-click" activity. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:16:19 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hello Scrum Team, > > I will just add here additional comment. As you can see, Shamil has > highlighted that you can purchase a Visual Studio integrated tool for > subversion. but let me just note that you do not need to use this > integrated tool. > You can get started with what we have here, for free, if you enjoy working > with the source code control, then you can always spend money to make it > even more streamlined, but until you try out the concept, you do not need to > spend anything. > > Just my short note. > > Remember, with SCCS (Source Code Control Software), you can always retreive > a revision from six revisions ago, imagine being able to go back and get the > code you had last sat between 16:00 and 18:00. > > One final note, just in case the obvious is not so obvious, you can also use > SCCS to store recipies for cookies, or your latest business plan, or the > packing list for the holidays, or you entire my documents directory. IOW, > SCCS, does not have to be just a programmers tool. But please do not upload > you entire my docs to this server :) > > thanks > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > > > - Tortoise SVN > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > > > Everything worked smoothly. > > > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > > Visual Studio. > > > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > > wraps): > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > To: dba-VB > > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > > start with. > > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > > files from there. > > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > > source files there, and then see how it will work with > > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > > coming months. > > > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > DataBase > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > Conversion Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 05:16:36 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:16:36 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. <<< if I am not behaving as ideal product owner >>> We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. :) Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely 'DONE'. I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: - customers 2 - products 3 - suppliers 2 ----------------------- - employees 3 - orders 3 with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - and then we will be OK with our progress... Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: ===================================================== Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== it it's fixed now by adding: GC.Collect(); System.Environment.Exit(0); to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:02:22 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hello Group, > I have updated the Excel sheet that contains the estimates to include the > product owners choices. Based on my selections, you appears to need 39 > units of work out of the total 87 units for work estimated. I hope that I > understand this all correctly and that I have made appropriate selections. > > I tried to select simple forms initially, but as Shamil has suggested that > we do approx 40 units in the first week, I had to include almost all the > forms. I do hope that is OK. To pad the numbers, I include a few reports > also, again, I hope that it is OK that I have given so much work in the > first phase. > > Shamil, if I have something wrong here, please let me know, so that I can > update / correct my selections. > > In our source code repository, I have created a new folder named documents, > and placed the newest file in there. I hope it will download for you all. > Let me know if you cannot connect to it. > > For those that are observing the project from a distance, I have uploaded > the spreadsheet here also to the skydrive account. If anyone wants to email > me, I can also directly forward them the doc. > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1 > > > FYI, when I click my folder here on my laptop and right clicked and selected > SVN Update, I immediately got the latest files from Shamil including all > source code. When you do the same, you will get his files and also my new > version of the excel doc. Not only that, but we can all see that we are now > on version 8 of the source code, I did the first few, and it looks like > Shamil did about five updates today, I hope this logging is useful to the > team. > > Any questions, just ask. Shamil, if I am not behaving as ideal product > owner, please steer me in the right direction. > > thanks all, > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > > > - Tortoise SVN > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > > > Everything worked smoothly. > > > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > > Visual Studio. > > > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > > wraps): > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > To: dba-VB > > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > > start with. > > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > > files from there. > > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > > source files there, and then see how it will work with > > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > > coming months. > > > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > DataBase > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > Conversion Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 24 05:31:12 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:31:12 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project Message-ID: Hi Shamil > (OK Gustav?) That is OK. Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine today. Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-03-2009 11:16 >>> Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. <<< if I am not behaving as ideal product owner >>> We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. :) Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely 'DONE'. I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: - customers 2 - products 3 - suppliers 2 ----------------------- - employees 3 - orders 3 with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - and then we will be OK with our progress... Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: ===================================================== Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== it it's fixed now by adding: GC.Collect(); System.Environment.Exit(0); to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 05:50:21 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:50:21 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Gustav. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:31:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hi Shamil > > > (OK Gustav?) > That is OK. > > Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine today. > Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-03-2009 11:16 >>> > Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, > > Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. > > <<< > if I am not behaving as ideal product owner > >>> > We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. :) > > Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: > > dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project > > Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely 'DONE'. > > I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: > > - customers 2 > - products 3 > - suppliers 2 > ----------------------- > - employees 3 > - orders 3 > > with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - and then we will be OK with our progress... > > Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. > > If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: > > ===================================================== > Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings > C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. > Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. > ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== > > it it's fixed now by adding: > > GC.Collect(); > System.Environment.Exit(0); > > to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marklbreen at gmail.com Tue Mar 24 05:54:03 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:54:03 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello All, >Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. As always in my live, I feel guilty for not being detailed / thorough enough. Does anyone here in this list ever feel that they contribute enough to their customer / family / supplier / community / mailing list of choice. I certainly never feel I do. Gustav, If I understand your email below correctly, you have successfully installed a SVN server and are able to use is with a client to check in and out code locally for yourself. If this is what you did, then you did it the same as me, then I just created a second server on a machine that is currently in a data centre with a good connection. Glad to here is went well for you, I have to admit that I spent not much more than 60 minutes on this SCCS stuff. But I also have to admint that I find is appealing - not sure why. Mark 2009/3/24 Gustav Brock > Hi Shamil > > > (OK Gustav?) > That is OK. > > Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to > set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine > today. > Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-03-2009 11:16 >>> > Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, > > Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. > > <<< > if I am not behaving as ideal product owner > >>> > We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And > you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. > :) > > Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, > SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for > this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time > to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting > their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any > questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current > version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and > also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: > > dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project > > Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - > just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' > status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely > 'DONE'. > > I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: > > - customers 2 > - products 3 > - suppliers 2 > ----------------------- > - employees 3 > - orders 3 > > with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best > candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the > last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be > developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this > week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - > and then we will be OK with our progress... > > Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents > subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the > root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. > > If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the > following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: > > ===================================================== > Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings > C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): > error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to > "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file > '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. > Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. > ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== > > it it's fixed now by adding: > > GC.Collect(); > System.Environment.Exit(0); > > to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 06:01:27 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:01:27 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team, Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - this is just a plan: DONE - 2 - Categories TODO - 2 - Customer Orders TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 TODO - 2 - Customers TODO - 3 - Employees DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard TODO - 3 - Orders TODO - 1 - Orders Subform DONE - 1 - Product List TODO - 2 - Products TODO - 1 - StartUp TODO - 2 - Suppliers ========================== TOTAL: 23 I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: - customers 2 - products 3 - suppliers 2 ----------------------- - employees 3 - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? Then I will do another one.) Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get selected to develop. Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 24 06:21:45 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:21:45 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project Message-ID: Hi Mark No server at me. I installed the Tortoise SVN client and connected successfully to the server you so kindly have provided using the credentials you posted. Then I synced and received a bunch of folders (for SVN I guess) and one readme file, but no project files - will have to look into that later. I also installed the trial of the visual client for VS, and if that works well I plan to spend the few bucks for it and install my own SVN server. /gustav >>> marklbreen at gmail.com 24-03-2009 11:54 >>> Hello All, >Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. As always in my live, I feel guilty for not being detailed / thorough enough. Does anyone here in this list ever feel that they contribute enough to their customer / family / supplier / community / mailing list of choice. I certainly never feel I do. Gustav, If I understand your email below correctly, you have successfully installed a SVN server and are able to use is with a client to check in and out code locally for yourself. If this is what you did, then you did it the same as me, then I just created a second server on a machine that is currently in a data centre with a good connection. Glad to here is went well for you, I have to admit that I spent not much more than 60 minutes on this SCCS stuff. But I also have to admint that I find is appealing - not sure why. Mark 2009/3/24 Gustav Brock > Hi Shamil > > > (OK Gustav?) > That is OK. > > Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to > set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine > today. > Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. > > /gustav From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 24 10:34:26 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: Message-ID: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more straight-forward maybe) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > Hi SCRUM Team, > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - > this is just a plan: > > DONE - 2 - Categories > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > TODO - 2 - Customers > TODO - 3 - Employees > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > TODO - 3 - Orders > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > DONE - 1 - Product List > TODO - 2 - Products > TODO - 1 - StartUp > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > ========================== > TOTAL: 23 > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start working > on the following forms first of all: > > - customers 2 > - products 3 > - suppliers 2 > ----------------------- > - employees 3 > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav you > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? > Then I will do another one.) > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted todo - > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just get > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get > selected to develop. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 12:16:29 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 20:16:29 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike and SCRUM team, Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. The three forms: - products; - suppliers and - customers are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. We with Gustav will develop - employees and - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms using our sample solution. I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > straight-forward maybe) > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - > > this is just a plan: > > > > DONE - 2 - Categories > > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > > TODO - 2 - Customers > > TODO - 3 - Employees > > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > > TODO - 3 - Orders > > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > > DONE - 1 - Product List > > TODO - 2 - Products > > TODO - 1 - StartUp > > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > > ========================== > > TOTAL: 23 > > > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start working > > on the following forms first of all: > > > > - customers 2 > > - products 3 > > - suppliers 2 > > ----------------------- > > - employees 3 > > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav you > > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? > > Then I will do another one.) > > > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted todo - > > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one > > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just get > > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do > > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get > > selected to develop. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 24 12:39:39 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:39:39 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> Message-ID: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> OK, Shamil. I choose Suppliers. I was reading/trying to follow Walkthrough: Displaying Data on a Form in a Windows Application A little lost on adding TableAdapters, but learning. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > The three forms: > > - products; > - suppliers and > - customers > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > We with Gustav will develop > > - employees and > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one > of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > using our sample solution. > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more >> straight-forward maybe) >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> > >> > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - >> > this is just a plan: >> > >> > DONE - 2 - Categories >> > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 >> > TODO - 2 - Customers >> > TODO - 3 - Employees >> > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard >> > TODO - 3 - Orders >> > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform >> > DONE - 1 - Product List >> > TODO - 2 - Products >> > TODO - 1 - StartUp >> > TODO - 2 - Suppliers >> > ========================== >> > TOTAL: 23 >> > >> > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start >> > working >> > on the following forms first of all: >> > >> > - customers 2 >> > - products 3 >> > - suppliers 2 >> > ----------------------- >> > - employees 3 >> > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) >> > >> > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav >> > you >> > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which >> > one? >> > Then I will do another one.) >> > >> > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them >> > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted >> > todo - >> > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one >> > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just >> > get >> > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do >> > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get >> > selected to develop. >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue Mar 24 14:40:11 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:40:11 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan In-Reply-To: References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> Message-ID: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but want to try and keep up with you guys. Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. Doug -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM To: dba-VB Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan Hi Mike and SCRUM team, Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. The three forms: - products; - suppliers and - customers are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. We with Gustav will develop - employees and - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms using our sample solution. I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > straight-forward maybe) > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be > > fulfilled) - this is just a plan: > > > > DONE - 2 - Categories > > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > > TODO - 2 - Customers > > TODO - 3 - Employees > > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > > TODO - 3 - Orders > > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > > DONE - 1 - Product List > > TODO - 2 - Products > > TODO - 1 - StartUp > > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > > ========================== > > TOTAL: 23 > > > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > > working on the following forms first of all: > > > > - customers 2 > > - products 3 > > - suppliers 2 > > ----------------------- > > - employees 3 > > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav > > (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? > > Then I will do another one.) > > > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > > todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, > > second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last > > one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the > > same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the > > form name you will get selected to develop. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 24 14:48:17 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:48:17 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan In-Reply-To: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> Message-ID: <49C93901.2030204@colbyconsulting.com> I guess I am taking customers? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Doug Murphy wrote: > OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but > want to try and keep up with you guys. > > Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM > To: dba-VB > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > The three forms: > > - products; > - suppliers and > - customers > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > We with Gustav will develop > > - employees and > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of > the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > using our sample solution. > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more >> straight-forward maybe) >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >>> Hi SCRUM Team, >>> >>> Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be >>> fulfilled) - this is just a plan: >>> >>> DONE - 2 - Categories >>> TODO - 2 - Customer Orders >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 >>> TODO - 2 - Customers >>> TODO - 3 - Employees >>> DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard >>> TODO - 3 - Orders >>> TODO - 1 - Orders Subform >>> DONE - 1 - Product List >>> TODO - 2 - Products >>> TODO - 1 - StartUp >>> TODO - 2 - Suppliers >>> ========================== >>> TOTAL: 23 >>> >>> I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start >>> working on the following forms first of all: >>> >>> - customers 2 >>> - products 3 >>> - suppliers 2 >>> ----------------------- >>> - employees 3 >>> - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) >>> >>> with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav >>> (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you > - which one? >>> Then I will do another one.) >>> >>> Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them >>> developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted >>> todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, >>> second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last >>> one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the >>> same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the >>> form name you will get selected to develop. >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-VB mailing list >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 24 15:08:22 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:08:22 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM - Source code control Message-ID: <49C93DB6.6050701@colbyconsulting.com> Mark sent an email about his setting up a source code server but I cannot for the life of me find it. It told where to go to download the SCC software, how to connect to the server instance etc. If someone could please forward that to me with SCRUM - SCC in the subject that would be great. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:32:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:32:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gLSBTb3VyY2UgY29kZSBjb250cm9s?= In-Reply-To: <49C93DB6.6050701@colbyconsulting.com> References: <49C93DB6.6050701@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John, Forwarded. On MS Live dba-vb group Favorites there are links for Tortoise SVN and Visual SVN. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: VBA Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:08:22 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM - Source code control > Mark sent an email about his setting up a source code server but I cannot for the life of me find > it. It told where to go to download the SCC software, how to connect to the server instance etc. > If someone could please forward that to me with SCRUM - SCC in the subject that would be great. > > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:34:40 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:34:40 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <49C93901.2030204@colbyconsulting.com> References: <49C93901.2030204@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Yes, John, Mike selected Suppliers form, Doug selected Products form and you have got Customers form Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:48:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > I guess I am taking customers? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Doug Murphy wrote: > > OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but > > want to try and keep up with you guys. > > > > Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. > > > > Doug > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > > Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM > > To: dba-VB > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > > The three forms: > > > > - products; > > - suppliers and > > - customers > > > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > > > We with Gustav will develop > > > > - employees and > > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of > > the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > > using our sample solution. > > > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > >> straight-forward maybe) > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "dba-VB" > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> > >> > >>> Hi SCRUM Team, > >>> > >>> Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be > >>> fulfilled) - this is just a plan: > >>> > >>> DONE - 2 - Categories > >>> TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > >>> TODO - 2 - Customers > >>> TODO - 3 - Employees > >>> DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > >>> TODO - 3 - Orders > >>> TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > >>> DONE - 1 - Product List > >>> TODO - 2 - Products > >>> TODO - 1 - StartUp > >>> TODO - 2 - Suppliers > >>> ========================== > >>> TOTAL: 23 > >>> > >>> I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > >>> working on the following forms first of all: > >>> > >>> - customers 2 > >>> - products 3 > >>> - suppliers 2 > >>> ----------------------- > >>> - employees 3 > >>> - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > >>> > >>> with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav > >>> (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you > > - which one? > >>> Then I will do another one.) > >>> > >>> Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > >>> developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > >>> todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, > >>> second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last > >>> one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the > >>> same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the > >>> form name you will get selected to develop. > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Shamil > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> dba-VB mailing list > >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>> > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:35:23 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:35:23 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> References: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> Message-ID: OK, Doug. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Doug Murphy" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:40:11 -0700 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but > want to try and keep up with you guys. > > Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM > To: dba-VB > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > The three forms: > > - products; > - suppliers and > - customers > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > We with Gustav will develop > > - employees and > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of > the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > using our sample solution. > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > > I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > > straight-forward maybe) > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > > To: "dba-VB" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be > > > fulfilled) - this is just a plan: > > > > > > DONE - 2 - Categories > > > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > > > TODO - 2 - Customers > > > TODO - 3 - Employees > > > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > > > TODO - 3 - Orders > > > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > > > DONE - 1 - Product List > > > TODO - 2 - Products > > > TODO - 1 - StartUp > > > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > > > ========================== > > > TOTAL: 23 > > > > > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > > > working on the following forms first of all: > > > > > > - customers 2 > > > - products 3 > > > - suppliers 2 > > > ----------------------- > > > - employees 3 > > > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > > > > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav > > > (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you > - which one? > > > Then I will do another one.) > > > > > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > > > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > > > todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, > > > second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last > > > one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the > > > same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the > > > form name you will get selected to develop. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:45:23 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:45:23 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> References: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> Message-ID: OK, Mike, In fact you do not need to do that much work to make your form because the current NorthwindNET.sln solution is prepared to make it playfully almost only by using mouse: I'm about to publish a short HowTo clip for everybofy to look at it first of all (2 minutes 10 seconds). I'm sorry I haven't published it yet but it takes much more time to make that movie clip that to develop the forms I made today. (Unfortunately I do not have Camtasia Studio or somethingv like that and I have to get screenshots and then put them into MS Movies Maker and then add some comments... The resoluton of movie frames would be not very good to save some space (this is automatic MS Movie makers feature). I also plan to publoish source screenshots with good quality. Stay tuned.. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:39:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > OK, Shamil. I choose Suppliers. > > I was reading/trying to follow > Walkthrough: Displaying Data on a Form in a Windows Application > > A little lost on adding TableAdapters, but learning. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:16 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > > The three forms: > > > > - products; > > - suppliers and > > - customers > > > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > > > We with Gustav will develop > > > > - employees and > > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one > > of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > > using our sample solution. > > > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > >> straight-forward maybe) > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "dba-VB" > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> > >> > >> > Hi SCRUM Team, > >> > > >> > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - > >> > this is just a plan: > >> > > >> > DONE - 2 - Categories > >> > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > >> > TODO - 2 - Customers > >> > TODO - 3 - Employees > >> > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > >> > TODO - 3 - Orders > >> > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > >> > DONE - 1 - Product List > >> > TODO - 2 - Products > >> > TODO - 1 - StartUp > >> > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > >> > ========================== > >> > TOTAL: 23 > >> > > >> > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > >> > working > >> > on the following forms first of all: > >> > > >> > - customers 2 > >> > - products 3 > >> > - suppliers 2 > >> > ----------------------- > >> > - employees 3 > >> > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > >> > > >> > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav > >> > you > >> > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which > >> > one? > >> > Then I will do another one.) > >> > > >> > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > >> > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > >> > todo - > >> > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one > >> > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just > >> > get > >> > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do > >> > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get > >> > selected to develop. > >> > > >> > Thank you. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Shamil > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 24 16:09:10 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:09:10 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> Message-ID: <7F1BF6F9C5244626A700BDF2021231EE@Mattys> Shamil, you did a lot of work. I did dig into things a little and changed the SQL Server connection to Path\dbo.mdf and everything worked fine. However, I don't yet comprehend the source control and wasn't sure what to do once I saved it and someone asked, "Well, where is it?" - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > OK, Mike, > > In fact you do not need to do that much work to make your form because the > current NorthwindNET.sln solution is prepared to make it playfully almost > only by using mouse: I'm about to publish a short HowTo clip for everybofy > to look at it first of all (2 minutes 10 seconds). > > I'm sorry I haven't published it yet but it takes much more time to make > that movie clip that to develop the forms I made today. (Unfortunately I > do not have Camtasia Studio or somethingv like that and I have to get > screenshots and then put them into MS Movies Maker and then add some > comments... > > The resoluton of movie frames would be not very good to save some space > (this is automatic MS Movie makers feature). I also plan to publoish > source screenshots with good quality. > > Stay tuned.. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:39:39 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> OK, Shamil. I choose Suppliers. >> >> I was reading/trying to follow >> Walkthrough: Displaying Data on a Form in a Windows Application >> >> A little lost on adding TableAdapters, but learning. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >> > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> > >> > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. >> > The three forms: >> > >> > - products; >> > - suppliers and >> > - customers >> > >> > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of >> > you. >> > >> > We with Gustav will develop >> > >> > - employees and >> > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will >> > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. >> > >> > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any >> > one >> > of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. >> > >> > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make >> > forms >> > using our sample solution. >> > >> > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: "Mike Mattys" >> > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning >> > Visual >> > Basic and related programming issues." >> > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> > >> >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed >> >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more >> >> straight-forward maybe) >> >> - >> >> Michael R Mattys >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> - >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> >> To: "dba-VB" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM >> >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> >> > >> >> > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be >> >> > fulfilled) - >> >> > this is just a plan: >> >> > >> >> > DONE - 2 - Categories >> >> > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders >> >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 >> >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 >> >> > TODO - 2 - Customers >> >> > TODO - 3 - Employees >> >> > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard >> >> > TODO - 3 - Orders >> >> > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform >> >> > DONE - 1 - Product List >> >> > TODO - 2 - Products >> >> > TODO - 1 - StartUp >> >> > TODO - 2 - Suppliers >> >> > ========================== >> >> > TOTAL: 23 >> >> > >> >> > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start >> >> > working >> >> > on the following forms first of all: >> >> > >> >> > - customers 2 >> >> > - products 3 >> >> > - suppliers 2 >> >> > ----------------------- >> >> > - employees 3 >> >> > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) >> >> > >> >> > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav >> >> > (Gustav >> >> > you >> >> > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which >> >> > one? >> >> > Then I will do another one.) >> >> > >> >> > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them >> >> > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted >> >> > todo - >> >> > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one >> >> > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will >> >> > just >> >> > get >> >> > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do >> >> > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get >> >> > selected to develop. >> >> > >> >> > Thank you. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Shamil >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > dba-VB mailing list >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 16:27:17 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:27:17 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEhvd1RvczogVmlkZW8gQ2xpcC9TY3JlZW5z?= =?koi8-r?b?aG90cyAtIEhvdyB0byBNYWtlIGEgQm91bmQgLk5FVCBXaW5Gb3Jt?= =?koi8-r?b?IHdpdGggU3ViRm9ybS4uLg==?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx the subject HowTos: 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data tables and relationships... I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good when using streaming video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - yes, it's :) Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development environment - correct? :) As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the end of the project when/if we will have some time left... Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a good day and happy .NET WinForms design! From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 24 16:57:48 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:57:48 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How about sharing with the rest of us, Shamil? I clicked the link, but didn't see anything. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:27 PM To: dba-VB Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx the subject HowTos: 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data tables and relationships... I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good when using streaming video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - yes, it's :) Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development environment - correct? :) As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the end of the project when/if we will have some time left... Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a good day and happy .NET WinForms design! _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 12:18:18 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:18:18 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. New version is uploaded to dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project and also commited to our SVN server. This version uses new view. This view SQL script is stored in: >Northwind.NET.FE >Datasets >SQL 0001_vw_CustomerOrdersProducts.sql (TODO Note: we have to decide what is the best way for us to keep our MS SQL databases in sync without that much manual work of running SQL scripts to create new SQL objects). Please run this SQL against your version of MS SQL database. FYI: trying to use as little as possible new SQL Views etc. but for this form that was the quickest solution in my opinion, and a solution not using embedded into C# code SQL. I have also created new dataset dedicated to this form - CustomerOrdersFormDataSet. Trying to do the things done first, and then (in the next version) to do them right (industry strong) - this approach usually works well in .NET - unlike VB6/VBA where usage of this approach often results in unmanagable code... Please question everything you're getting from here but please stay focused on getting converted NorthWind.NET desktop WinForm application first of all... Thank you. -- Shamil From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 14:46:41 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:46:41 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: Message-ID: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Shamil, I built everything from the video, but one thing I don't get: For some reason you are able to simply put "Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;" where I require a path to the mdf - why does that happen? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums > > http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx > > the subject HowTos: > > 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > > This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound > .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data > tables and relationships... > > I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good > when using streaming video: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic > > you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. > > I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - > yes, it's :) > > Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd > suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the > more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working > smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET > development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development > environment - correct? :) > > As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every > step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to > discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the > end of the project when/if we will have some time left... > > Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner > acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a > good day and happy .NET WinForms design! > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 15:05:59 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:05:59 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEhvd1RvczogVmlkZW8gQ2xpcC9TY3JlZW5z?= =?koi8-r?b?aG90cyAtIEhvdyB0byBNYWtlIGEgQm91bmQgLk5FVCBXaW5Gb3Jt?= =?koi8-r?b?IHdpdGggU3ViRm9ybS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Did you get .mdf database file attached to your MS SQL Server 2005(?) set of databases? What MS SQL 20065 versions do you use? - default installed with VS 2008 MS SQL 2005 Express? Do you have installed Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio Express http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=C243A5AE-4BD1-4E3D-94B8-5A0F62BF7796&displaylang=en ? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:46:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Shamil, > > I built everything from the video, but one thing I don't get: > > For some reason you are able to simply put "Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;" > where I require a path to the mdf - why does that happen? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:27 PM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a > Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > > > I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums > > > > http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx > > > > the subject HowTos: > > > > 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > > 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > > > > This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound > > .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data > > tables and relationships... > > > > I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good > > when using streaming video: > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic > > > > you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. > > > > I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - > > yes, it's :) > > > > Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd > > suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the > > more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working > > smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET > > development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development > > environment - correct? :) > > > > As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every > > step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to > > discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the > > end of the project when/if we will have some time left... > > > > Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner > > acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a > > good day and happy .NET WinForms design! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:09:28 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:09:28 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make aBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name Seems to work. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make aBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Shamil, > > I built everything from the video, but one thing I don't get: > > For some reason you are able to simply put "Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;" > where I require a path to the mdf - why does that happen? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:27 PM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a > Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > >> Hi SCRUM Team and all, >> >> I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums >> >> http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx >> >> the subject HowTos: >> >> 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm >> 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm >> >> This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound >> .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data >> tables and relationships... >> >> I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good >> when using streaming video: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic >> >> you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. >> >> I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - >> yes, it's :) >> >> Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd >> suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the >> more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working >> smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET >> development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development >> environment - correct? :) >> >> As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every >> step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to >> discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the >> end of the project when/if we will have some time left... >> >> Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner >> acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a >> good day and happy .NET WinForms design! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:13:11 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:13:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: <1D96B1D205D64E1AB81C0956DB78A302@Mattys> No, I have SQL 2005 Developer - came with VS2008 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Hi Mike, > > Did you get .mdf database file attached to your MS SQL Server 2005(?) set > of databases? > > What MS SQL 20065 versions do you use? - default installed with VS 2008 MS > SQL 2005 Express? > > Do you have installed Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio Express > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=C243A5AE-4BD1-4E3D-94B8-5A0F62BF7796&displaylang=en > > ? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:14:10 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:14:10 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: <5241B2EB10C24077B26648A319887D44@Mattys> Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table Try again. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put > ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > > Seems to work. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:30:24 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> <5241B2EB10C24077B26648A319887D44@Mattys> Message-ID: I'm stuck. Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. What should I be looking for to correct this? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > Try again. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name >> >> Seems to work. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:09:07 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:09:07 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEhvd1RvczogVmlkZW8gQ2xpcC9TY3JlZW5z?= =?koi8-r?b?aG90cyAtIEhvd3RvTWFrZWFCb3VuZCAuTkVUIFdpbkZvcm0gd2l0?= =?koi8-r?b?aCBTdWJGb3JtLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, What is exactly the message? Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on MS Live dba-vb? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > I'm stuck. > Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup > Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. > What should I be looking for to correct this? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How > toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > > Try again. > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > > >> > >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put > >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > >> > >> Seems to work. > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:13:19 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:13:19 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFRhcmdldFByb2Nlc3M=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, FYI: I have got installed TargetProcess (www.targetprocess.com) on my PC but I still can't get it running on my ASP.NET hosting web site. I have sent a request to TargetProcess support to check what is happening there. While waiting their response(it may take a day)/fixing the issue I will be using TargetProcess locally and I will be filling its db with our project information. When public version up&running I will restore its db from my local backup. Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:32:35 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:32:35 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Did you get restored databasse from backup after you've got attached .mdf db file? The .mdf db file has old version of tables with some fields' names being different: remember Gustav prposed to rename some fields? Please restore db from backup published on MS LIve dba-vb several days ago in the same SkyDrive folder, then preview should work I expect (in old [Order] table the current Order.[ID] field ws named OrderId, and the current Order.ShipperId field was named [ShipVia] Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:19:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Hi Shamil, > > Invalid Columns requires new/other fields in query? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - HowtoMakeaBound > .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Mike, > > > > What is exactly the message? > > Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on MS > > Live dba-vb? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - > > HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > >> I'm stuck. > >> Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup > >> Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. > >> What should I be looking for to correct this? > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How > >> toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > >> > >> > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > >> > Try again. > >> > - > >> > Michael R Mattys > >> > MapPoint and Database Dev > >> > www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > - > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Mike Mattys" > >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > >> > issues." > >> > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > >> > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > >> >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I > >> >> put > >> >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > >> >> > >> >> Seems to work. > >> >> > >> >> - > >> >> Michael R Mattys > >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (invcol.jpg) > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:41:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:41:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Did you get restored databasse from backup after you've got attached .mdf db file? The .mdf db file has old version of tables with some fields' names being different: remember Gustav prposed to rename some fields? Please restore db from backup published on MS LIve dba-vb several days ago in the same SkyDrive folder, then preview should work I expect (in old [Order] table the current Order.[ID] field ws named OrderId, and the current Order.ShipperId field was named [ShipVia] Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:19:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Hi Shamil, > > Invalid Columns requires new/other fields in query? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - HowtoMakeaBound > .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Mike, > > > > What is exactly the message? > > Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on MS > > Live dba-vb? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - > > HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > >> I'm stuck. > >> Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup > >> Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. > >> What should I be looking for to correct this? > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How > >> toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > >> > >> > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > >> > Try again. > >> > - > >> > Michael R Mattys > >> > MapPoint and Database Dev > >> > www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > - > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Mike Mattys" > >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > >> > issues." > >> > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > >> > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > >> >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I > >> >> put > >> >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > >> >> > >> >> Seems to work. > >> >> > >> >> - > >> >> Michael R Mattys > >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (invcol.jpg) > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 17:04:07 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:04:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> Message-ID: <9963E979FDBE437CAF5BB177ACF505F0@Mattys> Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > Hi Mike, > > Did you get restored databasse from backup after you've got attached .mdf > db file? > > The .mdf db file has old version of tables with some fields' names being > different: remember Gustav prposed to rename some fields? > > Please restore db from backup published on MS LIve dba-vb several days ago > in the same SkyDrive folder, then preview should work I expect (in old > [Order] table the current Order.[ID] field ws named OrderId, and the > current Order.ShipperId field was named [ShipVia] > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:19:41 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Invalid Columns > >> Hi Shamil, >> >> Invalid Columns requires new/other fields in query? >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - >> HowtoMakeaBound >> .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> >> >> > Mike, >> > >> > What is exactly the message? >> > Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on >> > MS >> > Live dba-vb? >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: "Mike Mattys" >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> > issues." >> > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - >> > HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> > >> >> I'm stuck. >> >> Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup >> >> Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. >> >> What should I be looking for to correct this? >> >> >> >> - >> >> Michael R Mattys >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> - >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Mike Mattys" >> >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> >> issues." >> >> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How >> >> toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> >> >> >> >> >> > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table >> >> > Try again. >> >> > - >> >> > Michael R Mattys >> >> > MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> > www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> > - >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Mike Mattys" >> >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> >> > issues." >> >> > >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM >> >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to >> >> > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and >> >> >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so >> >> >> I >> >> >> put >> >> >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name >> >> >> >> >> >> Seems to work. >> >> >> >> >> >> - >> >> >> Michael R Mattys >> >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > dba-VB mailing list >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> dba-VB mailing list >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (invcol.jpg) >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 17:11:36 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> <9963E979FDBE437CAF5BB177ACF505F0@Mattys> Message-ID: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection Trouble. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 17:36:21 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:36:21 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> Message-ID: Mike, You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace option. Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the latest one. To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll make some changes you wanted to overwrite back. The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details named NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection > Trouble. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > > > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 18:17:11 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:17:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> Message-ID: <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> I found this to help me out: SQL Services Manager http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Mike, > > You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. > > When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from > archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace > option. > > Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the latest > one. > > To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and > backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll make > some changes you wanted to overwrite back. > > > The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details > > named > > NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > >> Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection >> Trouble. >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Mattys" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning >> Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns >> >> >> > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. >> > >> > - >> > Michael R Mattys >> > MapPoint and Database Dev >> > www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 18:30:40 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:30:40 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> Message-ID: OK - database works ... rebuilding my Suppliers stuff - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns >I found this to help me out: > SQL Services Manager > http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > >> Mike, >> >> You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. >> >> When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from >> archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace >> option. >> >> Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the >> latest >> one. >> >> To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and >> backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll >> make >> some changes you wanted to overwrite back. >> >> >> The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: >> >> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details >> >> named >> >> NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 19:18:03 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:18:03 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: SVN/Tortoise References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys><4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> Message-ID: <79BB180046B245148EE99D3537407C7A@Mattys> My Suppliers form worked and I 'uploaded' it. Program.cs was out of date, so the merge failed It said try Update, so I did - that failed, too. I think I like this anyway ... :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > OK - database works ... rebuilding my Suppliers stuff > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > >>I found this to help me out: >> SQL Services Manager >> http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns >> >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. >>> >>> When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from >>> archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using >>> replace >>> option. >>> >>> Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the >>> latest >>> one. >>> >>> To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and >>> backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll >>> make >>> some changes you wanted to overwrite back. >>> >>> >>> The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: >>> >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details >>> >>> named >>> >>> NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> >>> P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 22:09:46 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:09:46 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: SVN/Tortoise References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys><4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> <79BB180046B245148EE99D3537407C7A@Mattys> Message-ID: // Don't forget to comment/uncomment back on // comminitting your current version of code. Of course, I forgot :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:18 PM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: SVN/Tortoise > My Suppliers form worked and I 'uploaded' it. > > Program.cs was out of date, so the merge failed > > It said try Update, so I did - that failed, too. > > I think I like this anyway ... :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 02:50:30 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 10:50:30 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> References: <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Yes, that's useful - I have added the link to MS LIve dba-VBn favorites. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:17:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > I found this to help me out: > SQL Services Manager > http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > > > Mike, > > > > You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. > > > > When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from > > archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace > > option. > > > > Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the latest > > one. > > > > To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and > > backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll make > > some changes you wanted to overwrite back. > > > > > > The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details > > > > named > > > > NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > > >> Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection > >> Trouble. > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > >> Visual > >> Basic and related programming issues." > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > >> > >> > >> > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. > >> > > >> > - > >> > Michael R Mattys > >> > MapPoint and Database Dev > >> > www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 04:41:36 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:41:36 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM / Northwind.NET Sample application(s) and library(-ies) Message-ID: Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D ================================== Hi All, I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: http://northwind.codeplex.com/ under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use by a broad worldwide audience." I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week (excluding holidays). Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample application up&running on your PCs. If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what our SCRUM team is doing ... Thank you. -- Shamil From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu Mar 26 06:50:40 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:50:40 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? Message-ID: Hello Scrum Team, Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth running of the scrum project. With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you need / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it (commiting it) back in when you make changes. Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management to become a friction item in the scrum items. Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product owner) at the moment, in your opinion Thanks Mark 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > ================================== > > Hi All, > > I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: > > http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > > under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > > "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within > .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > > This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use by > a broad worldwide audience." > > I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > (excluding holidays). > > Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together > with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample application > up&running on your PCs. > > If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating > your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what our > SCRUM team is doing ... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 09:19:07 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:19:07 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark, Yes, SCRUM techniques and their practical application to our project are important but there are several other subjects of equal importance I'd suppose. - 1) Distributed SCRUM; - 1) Distributed Source Code Control and related technologies to "industrialize" software development: (automated) code refactoring, Test Driven Development, automated Unit/Integration/.... testing, automated coding quality checking, continuous integration etc. (sorry used some buzzwords here but I do know from my experienced all of them do have good practical application) ; - 3) Getting our team members who only start with .NET on speed with .NET development. Of course getting on full speed is a long story but getting on good speed is expected to be (much) shorter... Source Code Control for distributed teams for any real life size project (with thousands of source files) is a cornerstone for everything else in my opinion - I'd "sacrifice" some SCRUM practices but not Source Code Control... Getting our team members on good speed with .NET is the second most important task, and the third is SCRUM - SCRUM will be rather useless in our case without good final project developed, and that good final project can be developed without SCC but then I or somebody else of our team would have to spend their time on routine work of code coordination - let's better try to get automated SCC working with your server - it should be less "trouble" to solve for our team than to coordinate code changes manually (Note: yes, in the beginning I was telling we can live without SCC but now with your server and/or CodePlex working well I'd prefer to rely on automated SCC, and free some time to assist in coding for other team members...) I will be keeping here SCRUM stats on local TargetProcess system until I get it online (with help of TargetProcess helpdesk) and that work needs some time - I'd better do it than coordinate source code manually.... When we currently have two working options as your SCC Server and CodePlex we should use first of them (your server) as a team, and the second - CodePlex - I'd keep posting current versions every week to have them shared wit everybody. CodePlex is good but using your server (if you'll have time) will allow us to get e.g. CruiseControl.NET etc. running there and then we can use such tested configuration for other projects, consult others etc. - installing and keeping running such "continuous integration chain" is not "rocket-science" but doing that alone takes quite some time - together we can get it up&running much quicker... Mark, there is one concern about committing changes, namely, imagine somebody of our team adds new forms/reports/classes to one of the two projects, and another team members adds some more new forms/reports/classes to one of the two projects etc. - and they are doing that against common current versions of solution they have on their PC. What will happen with project files .csproj when they will be committed? Not sure here they will get merged properly. I'd try to test that ASAP: we can do that with you by chatting via MS Messenger/GoogleTalk and doing some additions to the source projects, and then committing them. Note: I'd suppose VisualSVN somehow handles this issue because it's a Visual Studio Add-in and such add-ins can process .csproj files smarter than just TortoiseSVN, which I expect (I can be wrong) would just try to "stupidly" merge two files producing incorrect .csproj file (which is an XML file)... > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > owner) at the moment, in your opinion Mark as far as I see what is missing in Access Northwind is navigation involving all forms and reports - maybe you can try to figure out such navigation by just filling a worksheet with rows having forms/reports names and some columns having "buttons" navigating to other forms/reports... It would be useful also to maybe try to install CruiseControl.NET and get it working on every commit running a "fake" unit test showing that currently committed code compiles and builds well, "fake" unit/integration test runs etc. but that kind of activity is not the one of ProductOwner - would you be interested to do something like that? - and when we're done with all forms/reports/navigation then we can join you to set this automated development environment. No need to set this environment quickly but setting it gradually piece by piece would be useful for all of us+. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:50:40 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hello Scrum Team, > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth > running of the scrum project. > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you need > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management to > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > Thanks > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > > ================================== > > > > Hi All, > > > > I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: > > > > http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > > > > under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > > > > "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > > demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within > > .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > > > > This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > > (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > > together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > > technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use by > > a broad worldwide audience." > > > > I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > > (excluding holidays). > > > > Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together > > with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > > follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample application > > up&running on your PCs. > > > > If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating > > your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what our > > SCRUM team is doing ... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 26 10:08:53 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? References: Message-ID: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> Hi Mark, The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to re-comment some code. Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Breen" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hello Scrum Team, > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth > running of the scrum project. > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > need > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management > to > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > Thanks > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D >> ================================== >> >> Hi All, >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use >> by >> a broad worldwide audience." >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week >> (excluding holidays). >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample >> application >> up&running on your PCs. >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what >> our >> SCRUM team is doing ... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 10:30:15 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:30:15 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> References: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get commit it yesterday? Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hi Mark, > > The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to > re-comment some code. > > Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Breen" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > Hello Scrum Team, > > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth > > running of the scrum project. > > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > > need > > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it > > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > > > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management > > to > > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > > > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > > > Thanks > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > >> ================================== > >> > >> Hi All, > >> > >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: > >> > >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > >> > >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > >> > >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within > >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > >> > >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use > >> by > >> a broad worldwide audience." > >> > >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > >> (excluding holidays). > >> > >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together > >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample > >> application > >> up&running on your PCs. > >> > >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating > >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what > >> our > >> SCRUM team is doing ... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 26 10:37:55 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:37:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? References: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> Message-ID: <2826E71E97424DC0901436D4A1A8F83F@Mattys> All committed! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hi Mike, > > But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get > commit it yesterday? > > Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's > just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the > forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code > line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - > don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. > > But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC > when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit > your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > >> Hi Mark, >> >> The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to >> re-comment some code. >> >> Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark Breen" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning >> Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? >> >> >> > Hello Scrum Team, >> > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, >> > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the >> > smooth >> > running of the scrum project. >> > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you >> > need >> > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking >> > it >> > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. >> > >> > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code >> > management >> > to >> > become a friction item in the scrum items. >> > >> > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product >> > owner) at the moment, in your opinion >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > Mark >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil >> > >> >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D >> >> ================================== >> >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on >> >> CodePlex: >> >> >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ >> >> >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). >> >> >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to >> >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used >> >> within >> >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. >> >> >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of >> >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working >> >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new >> >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to >> >> use >> >> by >> >> a broad worldwide audience." >> >> >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week >> >> (excluding holidays). >> >> >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded >> >> together >> >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and >> >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample >> >> application >> >> up&running on your PCs. >> >> >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep >> >> updating >> >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of >> >> what >> >> our >> >> SCRUM team is doing ... >> >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Shamil >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> dba-VB mailing list >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 10:58:26 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:58:26 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: <2826E71E97424DC0901436D4A1A8F83F@Mattys> References: <2826E71E97424DC0901436D4A1A8F83F@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, I have got your updates using Visual SVN and it worked OK - I see your new form in the VS project - although form do not work now - all forms... ...no problem I will try to find what happened - I currently see app.config in the project is OK for my environment - so ir should be something else... ...stay tuned. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:37:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > All committed! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:30 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get > > commit it yesterday? > > > > Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's > > just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the > > forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code > > line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - > > don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. > > > > But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC > > when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit > > your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > >> Hi Mark, > >> > >> The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to > >> re-comment some code. > >> > >> Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mark Breen" > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > >> Visual > >> Basic and related programming issues." > >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > >> > >> > >> > Hello Scrum Team, > >> > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > >> > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the > >> > smooth > >> > running of the scrum project. > >> > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > >> > need > >> > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking > >> > it > >> > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > >> > > >> > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code > >> > management > >> > to > >> > become a friction item in the scrum items. > >> > > >> > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > >> > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > > >> > Mark > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> > > >> >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > >> >> ================================== > >> >> > >> >> Hi All, > >> >> > >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on > >> >> CodePlex: > >> >> > >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > >> >> > >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > >> >> > >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > >> >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used > >> >> within > >> >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > >> >> > >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > >> >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > >> >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > >> >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to > >> >> use > >> >> by > >> >> a broad worldwide audience." > >> >> > >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > >> >> (excluding holidays). > >> >> > >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded > >> >> together > >> >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > >> >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample > >> >> application > >> >> up&running on your PCs. > >> >> > >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep > >> >> updating > >> >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of > >> >> what > >> >> our > >> >> SCRUM team is doing ... > >> >> > >> >> Thank you. > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Shamil > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> dba-VB mailing list > >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 11:48:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:48:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, OK, this should: Right-Click Project name -> Properties -> Settings -> NorthwindNETConnectionString with setting value = Data Source=HAMBURG\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True which should be edited and then app.config's sestion is getting (re-)generated. But as far as I can see the value from app.config is not used by strongly-typed datasets - instead hardcoded value from Northwind.NET.FE -> Properties -> Settings.Designer.cs is used... We can keep replacing each other connection strings if we will be commiting Settings.Designer.cs and app.config - IOW better not commit them if we do not introduce new settings. In any event take anote that if you are getting trouble opening say CategoriesForm then you have to edit connection string in project settings not in app.config. Sorry for confusion I introduced. (I must say I rarely use strongly typed datasets but this issue/subject is another story we can talk in half a year probably - maybe in that time I will become adept of strongly typed datasets and ADO.NET Entity Framework and I will forget my current preferences of using custom object models with as little ADO.NET as possibel and without any strongly typed datasets at all... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I have to make a correction of my video tutorial now. -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:58:26 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > Hi Mike, > > I have got your updates using Visual SVN and it worked OK - I see your new form in the VS project - although form do not work now - all forms... > > ...no problem I will try to find what happened - I currently see app.config in the project is OK for my environment - so ir should be something else... > > ...stay tuned. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:37:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > All committed! > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get > > > commit it yesterday? > > > > > > Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's > > > just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the > > > forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code > > > line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - > > > don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. > > > > > > But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC > > > when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit > > > your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > > issues." > > > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > > >> Hi Mark, > > >> > > >> The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to > > >> re-comment some code. > > >> > > >> Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? > > >> > > >> - > > >> Michael R Mattys > > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > >> - > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Mark Breen" > > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > > >> Visual > > >> Basic and related programming issues." > > >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > >> > > >> > > >> > Hello Scrum Team, > > >> > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > > >> > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the > > >> > smooth > > >> > running of the scrum project. > > >> > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > > >> > need > > >> > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking > > >> > it > > >> > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > >> > > > >> > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code > > >> > management > > >> > to > > >> > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > >> > > > >> > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > > >> > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > >> > > > >> > Thanks > > >> > > > >> > Mark > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > >> > > > >> >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > > >> >> ================================== > > >> >> > > >> >> Hi All, > > >> >> > > >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on > > >> >> CodePlex: > > >> >> > > >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > > >> >> > > >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > > >> >> > > >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > > >> >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used > > >> >> within > > >> >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > > >> >> > > >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > > >> >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > > >> >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > > >> >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to > > >> >> use > > >> >> by > > >> >> a broad worldwide audience." > > >> >> > > >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > > >> >> (excluding holidays). > > >> >> > > >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded > > >> >> together > > >> >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > > >> >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample > > >> >> application > > >> >> up&running on your PCs. > > >> >> > > >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep > > >> >> updating > > >> >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of > > >> >> what > > >> >> our > > >> >> SCRUM team is doing ... > > >> >> > > >> >> Thank you. > > >> >> > > >> >> -- > > >> >> Shamil > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > >> >> dba-VB mailing list > > >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > dba-VB mailing list > > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> dba-VB mailing list > > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 04:08:20 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and All, I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 05:02:25 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:02:25 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 27 05:29:17 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:29:17 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all This really caused me a headache, and even when I found out as described here that the connection string is stored in the settings too, I still couldn't open the datasets as described here: https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/Workaround.aspx?FeedbackID=113567 However, this morning after a restart it suddenly worked. This issue is not common as in "real life" we all would attach to the same database, thus the issue would be moot. Despite all the trouble with the source code system - it took some time to get going - I like it very much including VisualSVN. It is extremely convenient to have the tiny green/yellow/red balls juxtaposed the normal icons - at a glance you can see which files have been changed. Sometimes you need a kick to get started and I will for sure follow this route and set up my own server for new projects as I work both from home and from the office. Also, external assistance could be called easily! /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 26-03-2009 17:48 >>> Hi SCRUM Team and all, OK, this should: Right-Click Project name -> Properties -> Settings -> NorthwindNETConnectionString with setting value = Data Source=HAMBURG\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True which should be edited and then app.config's sestion is getting (re-)generated. But as far as I can see the value from app.config is not used by strongly-typed datasets - instead hardcoded value from Northwind.NET.FE -> Properties -> Settings.Designer.cs is used... We can keep replacing each other connection strings if we will be commiting Settings.Designer.cs and app.config - IOW better not commit them if we do not introduce new settings. In any event take anote that if you are getting trouble opening say CategoriesForm then you have to edit connection string in project settings not in app.config. Sorry for confusion I introduced. (I must say I rarely use strongly typed datasets but this issue/subject is another story we can talk in half a year probably - maybe in that time I will become adept of strongly typed datasets and ADO.NET Entity Framework and I will forget my current preferences of using custom object models with as little ADO.NET as possibel and without any strongly typed datasets at all... Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 27 05:32:12 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... Message-ID: Hi Shamil I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 06:35:25 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:35:25 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav and SCRUM Team, The issue was that in app.config we have got somehow renamed Northwind.NET.FE.Properties.Settings.NorthwindNETConnectionString to NNNorthwind.NET.FE.Properties.Settings.NorthwindNETConnectionString watch two addiional letters 'NNN' added in the beginning... The fact is that when you change connection string in app.config it's OK and good enough for datasets to work/use this connection string. But it still isn't changed in application settings. If (as we have got) the connection string name is renamed in app.config then Visual Studio (e.g. when you try to preview datasets' data) uses default value from settings - and this value is hardcoded on last edit and compile of application settings (via project properties-> settings designer) etc. Visual Studio has several such "points of confusion" because it uses parts of the source project "compiled on the fly" in *design mode*: strongly typed datasets are just C# classes and when they are used in design mode they get compiled and they use settings which are loaded from app.config if corresponding app.config value is present, and it was absent in our case - hence Visual Studio used hardcoded value... Moreover in runtime {{executable file name}}.config file is used to load settings - in our case this is Northwind.NET.FE.exe.config (check \Bin folder) - this file is generated by VS on project rebuilding. (I didn't put this file under source code control as everybody gets their own vesion of this file when they recompile/rebuild solution and this happens every time you do a change to your code and then start application from within visual studion with or wothout debugging. Some more information: there are different *scopes* of settings as you can see in settings design window: - Application and User. When one will try to find how this works they usually get lost (as I do :)) - when you save User scope settings when using your app in runtime mode they *do get saved* but not in {{executable file name}}.config - they are saved somewhere on your system in your windows current user area - I still can't find where - do you? Visual Studio and .NET Framework are huge and it takes some time to get used to them - I'm working with them for fifth year and still see that there comes a lot of new stuff to learn as opposite to MS Access when I was at "guru level" in less than two years of using MS Access application in actual development - I suppose that "guru level" with .NET Framework and VS is unacheivable in one's lifetime :) - and I feel OK with that :)))... Let's discuss actively the issues as the subject one then we will proceed quicker - as I have written here several times: please questions everything you see coming from here, especially if it doesn't work as expected... (as I noted I didn't use strongly typed datastes that much with .NET and I didn't use standard handling of settings in VS because they partially are "black boxes" in some parts but for this project to avoid a lot of manual coding we'd better use these "black boxes")... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. This is how strongly typed dataset gets connection string value from settings, and settings load that value from app.config if it's present there AFAIU or use hardcoded value if it's absent - the latter happended in our case with two additional letters 'NN' getting in front of connection string name in app.config: DataModelDataSet.Designer.cs ============================ .... [global::System.Diagnostics.DebuggerNonUserCodeAttribute()] private void InitConnection() { this._connection = new global::System.Data.SqlClient.SqlConnection(); this._connection.ConnectionString = global::Northwind.NET.FE.Properties.Settings.Default.NorthwindNETConnectionString; } ... Settings.Designer.cs ===================== namespace Northwind.NET.FE.Properties { [global::System.Runtime.CompilerServices.CompilerGeneratedAttribute()] [global::System.CodeDom.Compiler.GeneratedCodeAttribute("Microsoft.VisualStudio.Editors.SettingsDesigner.SettingsSingleFileGenerator", "9.0.0.0")] internal sealed partial class Settings : global::System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase { private static Settings defaultInstance = ((Settings)(global::System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase.Synchronized(new Settings()))); public static Settings Default { get { return defaultInstance; } } [global::System.Configuration.ApplicationScopedSettingAttribute()] [global::System.Diagnostics.DebuggerNonUserCodeAttribute()] [global::System.Configuration.SpecialSettingAttribute(global::System.Configuration.SpecialSetting.ConnectionString)] [global::System.Configuration.DefaultSettingValueAttribute("Data Source=HAMBURG\\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True" + ";Language=English")] public string NorthwindNETConnectionString { get { return ((string)(this["NorthwindNETConnectionString"])); } } -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: " Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:29:17 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hi SCRUM Team and all > > This really caused me a headache, and even when I found out as described here that the connection string is stored in the settings too, I still couldn't open the datasets as described here: > > https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/Workaround.aspx?FeedbackID=113567 > > However, this morning after a restart it suddenly worked. > > This issue is not common as in "real life" we all would attach to the same database, thus the issue would be moot. > > Despite all the trouble with the source code system - it took some time to get going - I like it very much including VisualSVN. It is extremely convenient to have the tiny green/yellow/red balls juxtaposed the normal icons - at a glance you can see which files have been changed. > Sometimes you need a kick to get started and I will for sure follow this route and set up my own server for new projects as I work both from home and from the office. Also, external assistance could be called easily! > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 26-03-2009 17:48 >>> > > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > OK, this should: > > Right-Click Project name -> Properties -> Settings -> NorthwindNETConnectionString > > with setting value = > > Data Source=HAMBURG\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True > > which should be edited and then app.config's sestion is getting (re-)generated. But as far as I can see the value from app.config is not used by strongly-typed datasets - instead hardcoded value from > > Northwind.NET.FE -> Properties -> Settings.Designer.cs is used... > > We can keep replacing each other connection strings if we will be commiting > > Settings.Designer.cs and app.config - IOW better not commit them if we do not introduce new settings. > > In any event take anote that if you are getting trouble opening say CategoriesForm then you have to edit connection string in project settings not in app.config. > > Sorry for confusion I introduced. (I must say I rarely use strongly typed datasets but this issue/subject is another story we can talk in half a year probably - maybe in that time I will become adept of strongly typed datasets and ADO.NET Entity Framework and I will forget my current preferences of using custom object models with as little ADO.NET as possibel and without any strongly typed datasets at all... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 06:42:57 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:42:57 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, Gustav, thank you. I will make then Orders tomorrow morning. Let me note that Employee form has some pics to load from files (when they are present) we have None such pics currently - do you plan to add some (using ones from Access Northwind?) - maybe just one fake pic - that would be enough for this version. If you plan to add some pics please put them into \Pictures (or \Images) subfolder of \Bin folder then you can get the full path to this folder using Northwind.NET.Utilities.Context.ExecutingAssemblyFolderName + @"Pictures\" Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi Shamil > > I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... > > Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 06:50:55 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 07:50:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... References: Message-ID: <65CCBA9CCC82415C865F74FD8C64017E@Mattys> Hi Shamil, Please do accept it as done. My Northwind Traders mdt won't materialize, so I don't have any idea what any of the forms should look like, so I rushed to get the structure of the form complete so that I wouldn't hold up the team. If there are formatting issues or code to do, I will do it in following weeks. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 5:08 AM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are > commited to our SCC server. > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" > state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to > fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely > "DONE") > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - > so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 27 07:55:56 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:55:56 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... Message-ID: Hi Shamil I've got the pictures and will include them. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 12:42 >>> OK, Gustav, thank you. I will make then Orders tomorrow morning. Let me note that Employee form has some pics to load from files (when they are present) we have None such pics currently - do you plan to add some (using ones from Access Northwind?) - maybe just one fake pic - that would be enough for this version. If you plan to add some pics please put them into \Pictures (or \Images) subfolder of \Bin folder then you can get the full path to this folder using Northwind.NET.Utilities.Context.ExecutingAssemblyFolderName + @"Pictures\" Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi Shamil > > I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... > > Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 08:15:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:15:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, OK, thank you. Please put them under source control too - \Bin folder and \Bin Logs folder are put in there but that's it, and when new files are added in \Bin folder it could be needed to manually set checkmark for them while commiting your changes/additions. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:55:56 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi Shamil > > I've got the pictures and will include them. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 12:42 >>> > OK, Gustav, thank you. > > I will make then Orders tomorrow morning. > > Let me note that Employee form has some pics to load from files (when they are present) we have None such pics currently - do you plan to add some (using ones from Access Northwind?) - maybe just one fake pic - that would be enough for this version. > > If you plan to add some pics please put them into \Pictures (or \Images) subfolder of \Bin folder then you can get the full path to this folder using > > Northwind.NET.Utilities.Context.ExecutingAssemblyFolderName + @"Pictures\" > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > Hi Shamil > > > > I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... > > > > Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: dba-VB > > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > > > > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > > > > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > > > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 08:50:48 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:50:48 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: Message-ID: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. "Object Not Instantiated" blah! I reverted to my previous form using SVN. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 09:34:02 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:34:02 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Message-ID: I can't spend any more time, have to go to dentist - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked > on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. > > Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton > and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. > "Object Not Instantiated" blah! > > I reverted to my previous form using SVN. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 12:58:58 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:58:58 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBEZXNp?= =?koi8-r?b?Z24gTm90ZQ==?= In-Reply-To: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> References: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, When you do renaming buttons that should work - you get new button name but still old name of event procedure but code shoudl compile and this event procedure should work. I guess you could have made some other edits, which resulted in design time error message. Please don't give up when you'll see all that "Object Not Instantiated" messages etc. - just type CTRL+SHIFT+B to rebuild solution and then Ctrl+\, Ctrl+E to show "Errors List" window and from the latter window by clicking on its entries you csn go directly to the code lines resulting in that error messages - and edit/fix code manually.... Master these skills now when the project is simple... WinForm code in VS2008 consists from two standard code files constituting *one* class: 1. {{FormName}}.cs - part of partial form class to implement custom logic 2. {{FormName}}.Designer.cs - part of partial form class used by form designer on design time as well as to instantiate form on runtime - have a look what code you have for Form1 and button1 control with Cick event having its empty event procedure: Form1.cs ========= public partial class Form1 : Form { ... private void button1_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) { } } Form1.Designer.cs ================== private void InitializeComponent() { this.button1 = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); ... // // button1 // this.button1.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); this.button1.Name = "button1"; this.button1.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); this.button1.TabIndex = 0; this.button1.Text = "button1"; this.button1.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; this.button1.Click += new System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); // ... When you rename button1 to addProductButton you'll get ... this.addProductButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); ... // // addProductButton // this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; this.addProductButton.Text = "button1"; this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; this.addProductButton.Click += new System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); ... You can go and rename the rest manually like that: Form1.cs ========= public partial class Form1 : Form { ... private void addProductButton_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) { } } Form1.Designer.cs ================== private void InitializeComponent() { this.addProductsButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); .... this.SuspendLayout(); // // addProductButton // this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; this.addProductButton.Text = "Add Product"; this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; this.addProductButton.Click += new System.EventHandler(this.addProductButton_Click); ... and everything should work OK. I'm doing such renamings almost automatically when needed. There are other ways to fix this issue. Please note control names are started from lowerCase and use camelCase - that's a used by most of the developers namng convention recommended by MS. Once again please do such renaming several times in a test project or directly in our main project - don't be afarid doing that - it's a usual practice. Note that in designer part of code the code is usually hidden in VS2008 because of using #region Windows Form Designer generated code .... #endregion Sorry I can't write in all the details - such writing takes a lot of time... Note (as in the case with strongly typed datasets we discussed here in another thread) there is Design and Run-Time modes for many parts of code you develop under VS - but some code (as for forms) can be changed manually while the other (as for strongly typed datasets) should be better kept untouched to not get your project heavily screwed... For forms all the design information is stored in code and interpreted/executed by VS designers on design time but for strtongly typed datasets there are also some xml files keeping those datasets attributes and properties and those xml files are used by VS to generate C# code used on runtime.... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:50:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked > on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. > > Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton > and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. > "Object Not Instantiated" blah! > > I reverted to my previous form using SVN. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 13:07:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:58 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Message-ID: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> Thanks, Shamil If I keep making you write, you'll have enough for a book soon :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > > Hi Mike, > > When you do renaming buttons that should work - you get new button name > but still old name of event procedure but code shoudl compile and this > event procedure should work. > > I guess you could have made some other edits, which resulted in design > time error message. > > Please don't give up when you'll see all that "Object Not Instantiated" > messages etc. - just type > > CTRL+SHIFT+B to rebuild solution and then > > Ctrl+\, Ctrl+E to show "Errors List" window > > and from the latter window by clicking on its entries you csn go directly > to the code lines resulting in that error messages - and edit/fix code > manually.... > > Master these skills now when the project is simple... > > WinForm code in VS2008 consists from two standard code files constituting > *one* class: > > 1. {{FormName}}.cs - part of partial form class to implement custom logic > 2. {{FormName}}.Designer.cs - part of partial form class used by form > designer on design time as well as to instantiate form on runtime - have a > look what code you have for Form1 and button1 control with Cick event > having its empty event procedure: > > Form1.cs > ========= > > public partial class Form1 : Form > { > ... > private void button1_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) > { > > } > } > > > Form1.Designer.cs > ================== > > private void InitializeComponent() > { > this.button1 = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); > ... > // > // button1 > // > this.button1.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); > this.button1.Name = "button1"; > this.button1.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); > this.button1.TabIndex = 0; > this.button1.Text = "button1"; > this.button1.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; > this.button1.Click += new > System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); > // > > ... > > > When you rename button1 to addProductButton you'll get > ... > this.addProductButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); > ... > // > // addProductButton > // > this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, > 46); > this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; > this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); > this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; > this.addProductButton.Text = "button1"; > this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; > this.addProductButton.Click += new > System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); > > ... > > You can go and rename the rest manually like that: > > Form1.cs > ========= > > public partial class Form1 : Form > { > ... > private void addProductButton_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) > { > > } > } > > > Form1.Designer.cs > ================== > > private void InitializeComponent() > { > this.addProductsButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); > .... > this.SuspendLayout(); > // > // addProductButton > // > this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, > 46); > this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; > this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); > this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; > this.addProductButton.Text = "Add Product"; > this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; > this.addProductButton.Click += new > System.EventHandler(this.addProductButton_Click); > > ... > > and everything should work OK. > > I'm doing such renamings almost automatically when needed. > There are other ways to fix this issue. > Please note control names are started from lowerCase and use camelCase - > that's a used by most of the developers namng convention recommended by > MS. > > Once again please do such renaming several times in a test project or > directly in our main project - don't be afarid doing that - it's a usual > practice. > > Note that in designer part of code the code is usually hidden in VS2008 > because of using > > #region Windows Form Designer generated code > .... > #endregion > > Sorry I can't write in all the details - such writing takes a lot of > time... > > Note (as in the case with strongly typed datasets we discussed here in > another thread) there is Design and Run-Time modes for many parts of code > you develop under VS - but some code (as for forms) can be changed > manually while the other (as for strongly typed datasets) should be better > kept untouched to not get your project heavily screwed... > > For forms all the design information is stored in code and > interpreted/executed by VS designers on design time but for strtongly > typed datasets there are also some xml files keeping those datasets > attributes and properties and those xml files are used by VS to generate > C# code used on runtime.... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:50:48 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > >> Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked >> on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. >> >> Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton >> and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. >> "Object Not Instantiated" blah! >> >> I reverted to my previous form using SVN. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 13:23:16 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:23:16 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBEZXNp?= =?koi8-r?b?Z24gTm90ZQ==?= In-Reply-To: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> References: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you, Mike, Let's assume this is a training in writing :) - I mean I'd prefer to write on a bit more advanced C# development subjects then with time that writtten stuff could be collected into an original book probaby. I must also say that the quantity and quality of stuff written about .NET Framework and C# and OOP etc. is so enormous nowadays that to find some original subjects to write about is a real issue - almost everything looks as deja' vue... Sorry for some mistypings but I'm typing directly in plain text without spell-checker in my Internet e-mail client... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Thanks, Shamil > If I keep making you write, you'll have enough for a book soon :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 13:38:37 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:38:37 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> Message-ID: It isn't deja vu - I'm 7 or 8 years overdue for .Net, that's all. Thanks again, Shamil PS - let me know when one can see the top of the mountain! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Thank you, Mike, > > Let's assume this is a training in writing :) - I mean I'd prefer to write > on a bit more advanced C# development subjects then with time that > writtten stuff could be collected into an original book probaby. I must > also say that the quantity and quality of stuff written about .NET > Framework and C# and OOP etc. is so enormous nowadays that to find some > original subjects to write about is a real issue - almost everything looks > as deja' vue... > > Sorry for some mistypings but I'm typing directly in plain text without > spell-checker in my Internet e-mail client... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:58 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > >> Thanks, Shamil >> If I keep making you write, you'll have enough for a book soon :) >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 30 11:49:05 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:49:05 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team So how are we proceeding? I'm a little unsure what the next step is ... /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 25-03-2009 18:18 >>> Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 30 15:44:10 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:44:10 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team As Shamil has written several times, we have to learn new techniques and tools. TortoiseSVN/VirtualSVN has been an eye-opener to me - it is a pleasure to work with and if you never before have use a versioning system for your code, this is your chance. To me it is double fun as I work both at home, from a laptop and at the office. Previously I just copied the complete solution folder to and from an FTP folder - now I can just open VS and in a minute I have al updates from wherever they were made! I really appreciate the time Shamil has taken to get this going - I know very well have much time it takes to research and test and set up. The Employee form was a bit late - I had some troubles with it, but Shamil came up with a good solution for storing the pictures. How are you doing Doug and John? Can you also open and download the pictures of the employees? /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 30-03-2009 18:49 >>> Hi SCRUM Team So how are we proceeding? I'm a little unsure what the next step is ... /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 25-03-2009 18:18 >>> Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. From marklbreen at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 14:01:36 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:01:36 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Gustav, Thanks for the update, I also fear that I may have some tasks that I should be doing, but am not. I guess that I could attempt to get the current code version and review it as Product Owner, but somehow, I fear that I may not be supposed to 'look behind the curtin' until it is ready. So, currently I have no work to do, anyone may correct me if I have this wrong. I am also using the SCCS at the moment, on another project, and getting more and more pleased with how well it works. What I have not delved into yet, is the concept of branches and trunks, perhaps I should put that on the list. Also, we will eventually need to store the db in source control also. I tried a a few years ago to get a fast way to do that, but did not really achieve what I wanted. Of course one method is that I could place the db on the same server as the SCCS but if we do that, it must have some element of care taken, so that one developer does not break the other work. It may not be urgent, but for sure we will eventually need a protected db that is there for each developer to try out major versions of his work. For the minor versions, he can work in his own local machine. This then brings the other arkward issue of connection strings, which I find to be a pain when I have many systems to work with, and to test code. What is great about SVN and the other tools is they are so good and they are free. that is amazing. Thanks Mark 2009/3/30 Gustav Brock > Hi SCRUM Team > > As Shamil has written several times, we have to learn new techniques and > tools. TortoiseSVN/VirtualSVN has been an eye-opener to me - it is a > pleasure to work with and if you never before have use a versioning system > for your code, this is your chance. To me it is double fun as I work both at > home, from a laptop and at the office. Previously I just copied the complete > solution folder to and from an FTP folder - now I can just open VS and in a > minute I have al updates from wherever they were made! > > I really appreciate the time Shamil has taken to get this going - I know > very well have much time it takes to research and test and set up. > > The Employee form was a bit late - I had some troubles with it, but Shamil > came up with a good solution for storing the pictures. > > How are you doing Doug and John? Can you also open and download the > pictures of the employees? > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 30-03-2009 18:49 >>> > Hi SCRUM Team > > So how are we proceeding? > I'm a little unsure what the next step is ... > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 25-03-2009 18:18 >>> > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 31 16:45:27 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:45:27 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: Message-ID: <2D4BC8938DED4924AB557F977E5E0C0B@Mattys> I hope no one is waiting on me ... ? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 05:26:30 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:26:30 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM and C# Message-ID: Hello Gustav, Mike, John, Doug, Are you here in dba-VB? Andy asked us to switch to this list as the subject is a kind of off-topic for Access-D. Let's have posting/dicussing the subject topics only here in dba-VB? Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 05:46:12 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:46:12 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum Message-ID: Hi Shamil No problem for me with TargetProcess and five members. And if "lurkers" are allowed, it would be fine. Which tool is best I really will leave to you as I don't know what factors are important. I think, however, that it must be free to establish and use. /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 12:17:14 >>> Hi Gustav, 5 team members shoudl be optimal for this first project. Additional Access-D members who wanted to join could play the role of ProductOwner/stakeholders/users. And in the next project we can try to extend the team. TargetProcess currently looks the best SCRUM/agile project management/tracking tools for me because of the free community edition with the complete functionality and because it's ASP.NET based. But of course we have to look how it works when installed on ASP.NET hosting server: it looks good on demos, if could be not so good (slow) when used from Internet. If that will not work then we can look for some alternative and meanwhile keep ProdcutBacklog and BurnDown task list and other tracking info manually as for this small project and 5 team members that woudl be not that much additional work... Maybe we can just use MS Live or Google groupwork/teamwork features... But TargetProcess being dedicated for SCRUM/agile process and have good credentials looks the first candidate to use now... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:18:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum > Hi Shamil > > But wouldn't it be dangerous to rely on TargetProcess Community Edition and only five free licenses? If a sixth member would join (you aimed for 7 +/-2 members) we all will have to pay $249 which I think is not likely to be accepted. > > I installed Popfly (very easy). It integrates directly into Visual Studio as a menu entry - couldn't be easier. If it fits the purpose, of course, which I can't tell. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > Thank you, Doug, > > Now we have 5 team members! :) > > Gustav, > Mike, > John, > Doug, > Shamil > > And the team is complete for this first project as we plan to use TargetProcess SCRUM/agile management softwarem which free community edition has only five free licenses. I have got this edition already and I plan to install it within this week on my ASP.NET hosting site (because I do not have server side access to thsi ASP.NEt hosting site the installation needs some manual work). From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 05:58:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:58:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, Gustav. Let's wait for Mike, John and Doug to appear here and then set and prioritize the short list of preparatory tasks to fullfll before we start actual teamwork pogramming of MS Access NorthWind to .NET Winforms + MS SQL NorthWind conversion project. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:46:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > Hi Shamil > > No problem for me with TargetProcess and five members. And if "lurkers" are allowed, it would be fine. > > Which tool is best I really will leave to you as I don't know what factors are important. I think, however, that it must be free to establish and use. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 12:17:14 >>> > > Hi Gustav, > > 5 team members shoudl be optimal for this first project. > > Additional Access-D members who wanted to join could play the role of ProductOwner/stakeholders/users. > > And in the next project we can try to extend the team. > > TargetProcess currently looks the best SCRUM/agile project management/tracking tools for me because of the free community edition with the complete functionality and because it's ASP.NET based. > > But of course we have to look how it works when installed on ASP.NET hosting server: it looks good on demos, if could be not so good (slow) when used from Internet. > > If that will not work then we can look for some alternative and meanwhile keep ProdcutBacklog and BurnDown task list and other tracking info manually as for this small project and 5 team members that woudl be not that much additional work... > > Maybe we can just use MS Live or Google groupwork/teamwork features... > > But TargetProcess being dedicated for SCRUM/agile process and have good credentials looks the first candidate to use now... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:18:27 +0100 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum > > > Hi Shamil > > > > But wouldn't it be dangerous to rely on TargetProcess Community Edition and only five free licenses? If a sixth member would join (you aimed for 7 +/-2 members) we all will have to pay $249 which I think is not likely to be accepted. > > > > I installed Popfly (very easy). It integrates directly into Visual Studio as a menu entry - couldn't be easier. If it fits the purpose, of course, which I can't tell. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > > > Thank you, Doug, > > > > Now we have 5 team members! :) > > > > Gustav, > > Mike, > > John, > > Doug, > > Shamil > > > > And the team is complete for this first project as we plan to use TargetProcess SCRUM/agile management softwarem which free community edition has only five free licenses. I have got this edition already and I plan to install it within this week on my ASP.NET hosting site (because I do not have server side access to thsi ASP.NEt hosting site the installation needs some manual work). > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 07:37:09 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 08:37:09 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum References: Message-ID: I'm here. Hoping that we can just use C# Express ... - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > > OK, Gustav. > > Let's wait for Mike, John and Doug to appear here and then set and > prioritize the short list of preparatory tasks to fullfll before we start > actual teamwork pogramming of MS Access NorthWind to .NET Winforms + MS > SQL NorthWind conversion project. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:46:12 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > >> Hi Shamil >> >> No problem for me with TargetProcess and five members. And if "lurkers" >> are allowed, it would be fine. >> >> Which tool is best I really will leave to you as I don't know what >> factors are important. I think, however, that it must be free to >> establish and use. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 12:17:14 >>> >> >> Hi Gustav, >> >> 5 team members shoudl be optimal for this first project. >> >> Additional Access-D members who wanted to join could play the role of >> ProductOwner/stakeholders/users. >> >> And in the next project we can try to extend the team. >> >> TargetProcess currently looks the best SCRUM/agile project >> management/tracking tools for me because of the free community edition >> with the complete functionality and because it's ASP.NET based. >> >> But of course we have to look how it works when installed on ASP.NET >> hosting server: it looks good on demos, if could be not so good (slow) >> when used from Internet. >> >> If that will not work then we can look for some alternative and meanwhile >> keep ProdcutBacklog and BurnDown task list and other tracking info >> manually as for this small project and 5 team members that woudl be not >> that much additional work... >> >> Maybe we can just use MS Live or Google groupwork/teamwork features... >> >> But TargetProcess being dedicated for SCRUM/agile process and have good >> credentials looks the first candidate to use now... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Gustav Brock" >> To: >> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:18:27 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum >> >> > Hi Shamil >> > >> > But wouldn't it be dangerous to rely on TargetProcess Community Edition >> > and only five free licenses? If a sixth member would join (you aimed >> > for 7 +/-2 members) we all will have to pay $249 which I think is not >> > likely to be accepted. >> > >> > I installed Popfly (very easy). It integrates directly into Visual >> > Studio as a menu entry - couldn't be easier. If it fits the purpose, of >> > course, which I can't tell. >> > >> > /gustav >> > >> > >> > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> >> > >> > Thank you, Doug, >> > >> > Now we have 5 team members! :) >> > >> > Gustav, >> > Mike, >> > John, >> > Doug, >> > Shamil >> > >> > And the team is complete for this first project as we plan to use >> > TargetProcess SCRUM/agile management softwarem which free community >> > edition has only five free licenses. I have got this edition already >> > and I plan to install it within this week on my ASP.NET hosting site >> > (because I do not have server side access to thsi ASP.NEt hosting site >> > the installation needs some manual work). >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 08:01:34 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:01:34 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNjcnVtIGFuZCBDIw==?= In-Reply-To: <49ABD90C.5010408@colbyconsulting.com> References: <49ABD90C.5010408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John, Let's switch to dba-VB (this message crossposted there). OK. Our task now is to find a way how to handle the context when we have different VS and C# Express version. We can handle that I think - there are several ways how to do that - please all teh team members write here what VS or Express version you plan to use: Gustav Mike John Doug Shamil - 1st. VS2005 Prof. as it's important for ReportViewer control and John doesn't have VS2008 Standard. 2nd - VS2008 Prof. if everybody manages to get somehow at least VS2008 Standard version. Once again it's desirable to have the same .NET development development tools but in our case we I think can rather flexibly hanlde the contex with us having diffrenet versions. IOW my choise above is my context not my proposal to eveybody to get one or another of the above versions. Still unclear here does VS2005 Stabdard or VS2008 Standard build well the sample projects I posted the link of yesterday http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip Mike I did get you have Express version only - we will find how to hadle that context. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:03:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > Shamil, > > Professional edition costs a fair amount. Given that I make no money off of .Net (yet) I am unable > to spend on it. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Well, we can try to get this project done with 2005 and 2008 versions of VS hopefully Standard and Prof. version would be both OK. > > > > The best of course would be to get VS2008 Prof. for everybody (Standard editions would also qualify if it compiles well test solutions and allow to design .NET Report Viewer reports - http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB)) > > > > If Standard Edition doesn't allow to edit .NET Report Viewer reports then those reports can be placed in classlib, and the team members with Prof. Editions will design reports, the other team members will design forms - that should be possible... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jwcolby > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 00:05:48 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > > > >> The problem is that everyone needs to use the same environment. The Express version's code won't > >> run in VS and vice versa. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> > >> > >> William Hindman wrote: > >>> ...dl VS2008 Express for free instead ...you can't compile dlls or use > >>> add-ons with it but otherwise you should be able to contribute/participate > >>> without laying out a few hundred until you're certain its worthwhile for > >>> you. > >>> > >>> William > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------- > >>> From: "Mike Mattys" > >>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:37 PM > >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>> > >>>> I have neither. > >>>> I'll have to visit eBay > >>>> > >>>> - > >>>> Michael R Mattys > >>>> MapPoint and Database Dev > >>>> www.mattysconsulting.com > >>>> - > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Gustav Brock" > >>>> To: > >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:28 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> I have both VS2005 and VS2008 running, both in Standard version however. > >>>>> > >>>>> /gustav > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 01-03-2009 22:18:27 >>> > >>>>> Forwarded from Shamil who has some trouble with his AccessD mail account: > >>>>> > >>>>> *- > >>>>> > >>>>> Gustav and Mike do you have VS2005? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 08:01:25 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:01:25 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum Message-ID: Hi Michael Fine! Popfly should work with Express versions as well: http://www.popfly.com/Overview/Explorer.aspx /gustav >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 14:37:09 >>> I'm here. Hoping that we can just use C# Express ... - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 08:26:12 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:26:12 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum References: Message-ID: <849D391F39A148FFBD799B12EBFC973E@Mattys> Installed and signed up - where are we locating ourselves? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum > Hi Michael > > Fine! > > Popfly should work with Express versions as well: > > http://www.popfly.com/Overview/Explorer.aspx > > /gustav > > >>>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 14:37:09 >>> > I'm here. > Hoping that we can just use C# Express ... > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 08:29:09 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:29:09 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Message-ID: Hi Shamil et al Here (great site, bookmark that): http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express versions. The 2008 version can be found here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the Express versions. According to this: http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. Could someone please check this out? /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> Hi Shamil They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample solutions http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also qualify as development evnironment. From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 08:51:36 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:51:36 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: <5AAE300AFD7041F9B4A4F5870249E650@Mattys> Well, some of this day will be spent on -> Windows Update Express SP1 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Shamil et al > > Here (great site, bookmark that): > > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > versions. > The 2008 version can be found here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > Express versions. > According to this: > > http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > Could someone please check this out? > > /gustav > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > Hi Shamil > > They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > /gustav > > >>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > solutions > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > qualify as development evnironment. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Mar 2 12:57:55 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:57:55 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] Scrum and C# In-Reply-To: References: <49ABD90C.5010408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <7E130D3AB22F44638EC87381BFB47C8E@murphy3234aaf1> Doug will use VS2008 Professional. I have VS 2005 and can reinstall if required. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# Hi John, Let's switch to dba-VB (this message crossposted there). OK. Our task now is to find a way how to handle the context when we have different VS and C# Express version. We can handle that I think - there are several ways how to do that - please all teh team members write here what VS or Express version you plan to use: Gustav Mike John Doug Shamil - 1st. VS2005 Prof. as it's important for ReportViewer control and John doesn't have VS2008 Standard. 2nd - VS2008 Prof. if everybody manages to get somehow at least VS2008 Standard version. Once again it's desirable to have the same .NET development development tools but in our case we I think can rather flexibly hanlde the contex with us having diffrenet versions. IOW my choise above is my context not my proposal to eveybody to get one or another of the above versions. Still unclear here does VS2005 Stabdard or VS2008 Standard build well the sample projects I posted the link of yesterday http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip Mike I did get you have Express version only - we will find how to hadle that context. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 08:03:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > Shamil, > > Professional edition costs a fair amount. Given that I make no money > off of .Net (yet) I am unable to spend on it. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Well, we can try to get this project done with 2005 and 2008 versions of VS hopefully Standard and Prof. version would be both OK. > > > > The best of course would be to get VS2008 Prof. for everybody > > (Standard editions would also qualify if it compiles well test > > solutions and allow to design .NET Report Viewer reports - > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB)) > > > > If Standard Edition doesn't allow to edit .NET Report Viewer reports then those reports can be placed in classlib, and the team members with Prof. Editions will design reports, the other team members will design forms - that should be possible... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jwcolby > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > > solving > > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 00:05:48 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > > > >> The problem is that everyone needs to use the same environment. > >> The Express version's code won't run in VS and vice versa. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> > >> > >> William Hindman wrote: > >>> ...dl VS2008 Express for free instead ...you can't compile dlls or > >>> use add-ons with it but otherwise you should be able to > >>> contribute/participate without laying out a few hundred until > >>> you're certain its worthwhile for you. > >>> > >>> William > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------- > >>> From: "Mike Mattys" > >>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:37 PM > >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>> > >>>> I have neither. > >>>> I'll have to visit eBay > >>>> > >>>> - > >>>> Michael R Mattys > >>>> MapPoint and Database Dev > >>>> www.mattysconsulting.com > >>>> - > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Gustav Brock" > >>>> To: > >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:28 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum and C# > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> I have both VS2005 and VS2008 running, both in Standard version however. > >>>>> > >>>>> /gustav > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 01-03-2009 22:18:27 >>> > >>>>> Forwarded from Shamil who has some trouble with his AccessD mail account: > >>>>> > >>>>> *- > >>>>> > >>>>> Gustav and Mike do you have VS2005? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 13:11:00 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:11:00 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: <5AAE300AFD7041F9B4A4F5870249E650@Mattys> Message-ID: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: Error 1 The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace 'Microsoft' (are you missing an assembly reference?) C:\ ... nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 2 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 3 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 4 Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has been successfully built. 0 0 Warning 5 The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs 59 0 Warning 6 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. Warning 7 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be found. Doesn't look too serious! :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > Windows Update > Express SP1 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> Hi Shamil et al >> >> Here (great site, bookmark that): >> >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ >> >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express >> versions. >> The 2008 version can be found here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en >> >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the >> Express versions. >> According to this: >> >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx >> >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en >> >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. >> >> Could someone please check this out? >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> >> Hi Shamil >> >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> >> >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample >> solutions >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) >> >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also >> qualify as development evnironment. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 15:21:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:21:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> References: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team and everybody, My congratulation to the SCRUM team that we got 5 team members! I have made new versions of solutions and also MS SQL 2005 db model. Here are downloads: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip Here is the copy on another server: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnetdbs.zip You can find three solutions now: - one for VS2005; - another for VS2008; - third one targeted for C# 2008 Express but prepared with VS2008 Prof. (based on William words that C# 2008 Express can't compile classlibs I have just made small Winforms FE app and used classlibs compiled by VS2008 Prof). These "tricks" caused by different versions of VS we have. You can find that I moved placeholder forms and reports into classlibs to make projects configiration which will allow Mike to just develop a form in C# Express and use the forms and reports from classlibs we develop in full VS versions. I have also set references for ReportViewer control v.9 for VS2008 and C# Express 2008 targeted solutuons. Mike could you please test how they work now on your system? (Hope they will work OK, "fingers crossed"). Please Mike try to compile VS2008 targeted solution and C# 2008 targeted solution under C# 2008 Express. If the first will compile, build and run OK then classlibs with Forms and Reports could be merged back to FE. And having Express, Standard and Professioanl editions will not result in excessive manual synchronization work. Who can try to build VS2005 sample solution under VS 2005 Standard and/or VS2008 sample under VS2008 Standard edition to see they compile OK and thefore some of us can have Standard Editons and some of us can have Professional editions to work on this project? Compiled apps now have the following main executables. VS2005 or VS2008 Prof or Standard (maybe C# 2008 Express will work just find with VS2008 Prof. solution) ================================= NorthWind.NET.FE.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll C# 2008 Express (but compiled here under VS2008 Prof) ================= NorthWind.NET.FE.Express.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll - just classlib dll Guys, may I ask now you to decide which development environmnet to use - we seems to be moving to 2008 versions Express, Standard, Prof (Gustav, Mike, Doug, Shamil), but John has VS2005 version only and can't get 2008 version. What can we do? - I'd follow your decision - the issue with having 2005 and 2008 versions is that 2008 has some new C# language etc. features and therefore downgrading forms/reports developed in 2008 versions could be an issue - I have never tried to do that downgrade. Maybe you can try to test how it works and if it works well then we can safely (with a little additonal work) use both VS2005 and VS2008 versions. Of we all can use 2005 versions? Another issue with reports develped in 2008 versions - they expected to be quite different from 2005 versions (but 2005 versions could be upgraded to 2008 versions smoothly). Database model in the above download is a proposal - I have made some changes after upsizing tables. I didn't upsize any queries because most of them will be developed differently I expect. I have also added timestamp fields to all tables - almost never used them before, wanted to try to use them in this project - if you think they are not needed then we can remove it. Please note that SCRUMMaster role, which I have committed to for this project is not as a manager, mentor, director - this is a facilitator role IOW you as a team make the final decicions - I can participate in making such decisions because I have to share SCRUMMaster and developer roles in this project but my voice/vote shouldn't have any more "weight" that your votes/voices. To move steadily forward we have to make decisions every day - small, not time consuming - spending approx. 1 hour a working day for this project (for me it's not yet the case here for this project as I'm spending more time on it every day currently but that's OK for now. Hope you're not missing your main business working for this project...) ... Please be more active - if you wanted to do all the further preparatory work when we will start the project - let it be so - then we can start next week - it may take more time if we will not align/find a way how to work with different version of VS, how to share files etc. before we start actual development... I think decision on selecting of VS versions and that we can work and share sources with that selection should be done in advance - if it will not work OK we will not be able to make this project developed effectively... May I ask you to make decisions on: - VS versions you will use and how to solve some discrepancy if that will be 2005 and 2006 versions Express, Standard and Professional; - how we share/synchronize projects: current options: PopFly, MS Live SkyDrive, Google, (after all we can "synchronize" them by just exchanging source files)... We (you) will have to make some other decisions in preparation the project after the two above made/tested. I can participate in discussions but I'd prefer to be a kind of "lurker" for several days now because: - this is not SCRUMMaster responsibility to force the team to make decisions; - I have made quite some proposals already - it's your turn now :)... FYI: I have here an important deadline and I have to work intensively on another project for the next three-four days. Maybe we can/should shift the project start date for additonal week? - I can get back into active mode in the end of this week... For the next three-four days I will be able to spend only one-two hours max, for this project, and I wanted to install TargetProcess during this time and to give it to you to use in the beginning of the next week to define together ProductBacklog (features) and to plan the first SCRUM Sprint etc... Please ask questions if needed on VS versions and other issues and I will try to answer promptly... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:11:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December > Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) > Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > Error 1 > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > 'Microsoft' > (are you missing an assembly reference?) > C:\ ... > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 2 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 3 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 4 > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please > make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this > type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has > been successfully built. 0 0 > > Warning 5 > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > 59 0 > > Warning 6 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > Warning 7 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be > found. > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > > Windows Update > > Express SP1 > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > >> > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > >> > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > >> > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > >> versions. > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > >> > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > >> Express versions. > >> According to this: > >> > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > >> > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > >> > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > >> > >> Could someone please check this out? > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > >> Hi Shamil > >> > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > >> > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > >> solutions > >> > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > >> > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > >> qualify as development evnironment. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 2 15:28:42 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:28:42 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Message-ID: Hi Michael That is because Shamil has referenced the 2005 ReportViewer and not the 2008 (version 9.0.0.0). You can install that as well (that is what I have, that's why I didn't see any errors) but I think you should await a comment from Shamil. /gustav >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 20:11 >>> I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: Error 1 The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace 'Microsoft' (are you missing an assembly reference?) C:\ ... nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 2 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 3 Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE Warning 4 Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has been successfully built. 0 0 Warning 5 The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs 59 0 Warning 6 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. Warning 7 The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be found. Doesn't look too serious! :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > Windows Update > Express SP1 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> Hi Shamil et al >> >> Here (great site, bookmark that): >> >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ >> >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express >> versions. >> The 2008 version can be found here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en >> >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the >> Express versions. >> According to this: >> >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx >> >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en >> >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. >> >> Could someone please check this out? >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> >> Hi Shamil >> >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> >> >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample >> solutions >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) >> >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also >> qualify as development evnironment. >> From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 15:31:41 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:31:41 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Here (great site, bookmark that): > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ Yes, Gustav, I used it as one of the main sources while developing .NET ReportViewer Control reports. > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > Could someone please check this out? Mike? Could you please test? Do you need for that testing very simple project with just one placeholder WinForm and .NET ReportViewer control placeholder report - I can make it in VS2008 Prof. BTW, you can make such simple report by combining several sources from sample projects I have posted here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip with copy here: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:29:09 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Shamil et al > > Here (great site, bookmark that): > > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express versions. > The 2008 version can be found here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the Express versions. > According to this: > > http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > Could someone please check this out? > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > Hi Shamil > > They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample solutions > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also qualify as development evnironment. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:00:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:00:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, Yes, Gustav, I commented on that issue in my previous message and I posted links on new projects with 2008 versions referencing 2008 ReporViewer control I beleive. Maybe I'm pushing to go too quickly? Let's slow down - add another week (or more) for infrastructure preparation? Here is the link for a very simple VS2008 Prof. solution with one form and embedded reporViewer control (2008 version (9) I believe): http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/sse2008.zip and copy here: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/sse2008.zip They are prepared and compiled under VS2008. Gustav, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? If in both cases build, compile and run will be OK then we're almost done with defining how to handle VS versions differences. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:28:42 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Michael > > That is because Shamil has referenced the 2005 ReportViewer and not the 2008 (version 9.0.0.0). > > You can install that as well (that is what I have, that's why I didn't see any errors) but I think you should await a comment from Shamil. > > /gustav > > >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 20:11 >>> > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December > Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) > Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > Error 1 > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > 'Microsoft' > (are you missing an assembly reference?) > C:\ ... > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 2 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 3 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 4 > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please > make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this > type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has > been successfully built. 0 0 > > Warning 5 > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > 59 0 > > Warning 6 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > Warning 7 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be > found. > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > > Windows Update > > Express SP1 > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > >> > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > >> > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > >> > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > >> versions. > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > >> > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > >> Express versions. > >> According to this: > >> > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > >> > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > >> > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > >> > >> Could someone please check this out? > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > >> Hi Shamil > >> > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > >> > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > >> solutions > >> > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > >> > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > >> qualify as development evnironment. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:04:43 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:04:43 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <<< Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? >>> Sorry, Mike, I wanted to ask you to test this sample project compiling, building and running it under C# 2008 Express. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:00:03 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi All, > > Yes, Gustav, I commented on that issue in my previous message and I posted links on new projects with 2008 versions referencing 2008 ReporViewer control I beleive. > > Maybe I'm pushing to go too quickly? > Let's slow down - add another week (or more) for infrastructure preparation? > > Here is the link for a very simple VS2008 Prof. solution with one form and embedded reporViewer control (2008 version (9) I believe): > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/sse2008.zip > > and copy here: > > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/sse2008.zip > > They are prepared and compiled under VS2008. > > Gustav, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? > > Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? > > If in both cases build, compile and run will be OK then we're almost done with defining how to handle VS versions differences. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:28:42 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > Hi Michael > > > > That is because Shamil has referenced the 2005 ReportViewer and not the 2008 (version 9.0.0.0). > > > > You can install that as well (that is what I have, that's why I didn't see any errors) but I think you should await a comment from Shamil. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 02-03-2009 20:11 >>> > > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December > > Also installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) > > Continued installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > > Error 1 > > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > > 'Microsoft' > > (are you missing an assembly reference?) > > C:\ ... > > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > > [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > > > Warning 2 > > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > > > Warning 3 > > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly exists on > > disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may get compilation > > errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > > > Warning 4 > > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. Please > > make sure that the assembly that contains this type is referenced. If this > > type is a part of your development project, make sure that the project has > > been successfully built. 0 0 > > > > Warning 5 > > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryReport.Designer.cs > > 59 0 > > > > Warning 6 > > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > > > Warning 7 > > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not be > > found. > > > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> > > > Windows Update > > > Express SP1 > > > > > > - > > > Michael R Mattys > > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > - > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > > >> > > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > > >> > > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > >> > > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express > > >> versions. > > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > > >> > > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > >> > > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the > > >> Express versions. > > >> According to this: > > >> > > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > >> > > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > >> > > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > >> > > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > >> > > >> Could someone please check this out? > > >> > > >> /gustav > > >> > > >> > > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > > >> Hi Shamil > > >> > > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running > > >> but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be > > >> highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > >> > > >> /gustav > > >> > > >> > > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > >> > > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following sample > > >> solutions > > >> > > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > >> > > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > > >> qualify as development evnironment. > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 16:20:53 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:20:53 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. Still have errors. Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week or a month. This is my first jump. Let's just do it. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > <<< > Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 Standard? >>>> > Sorry, Mike, I wanted to ask you to test this sample project compiling, > building and running it under C# 2008 Express. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 16:27:16 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:27:16 -0000 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> >> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week or a month. Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. Who you gonna call! Max -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. Still have errors. Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week or a month. This is my first jump. Let's just do it. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 16:30:24 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:30:24 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <60998F538CBB42B7BABEF1E44D5F60F3@Mattys> Denis Sherman? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design >>> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > or a month. > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > Who you gonna call! > > > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > programming issues. > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Mar 2 16:33:50 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:33:50 -0000 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: <60998F538CBB42B7BABEF1E44D5F60F3@Mattys> References: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> <60998F538CBB42B7BABEF1E44D5F60F3@Mattys> Message-ID: <49ac5ecd.0aa5660a.21de.ffff9608@mx.google.com> No, Ghost Busters! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys Sent: 02 March 2009 22:30 To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Denis Sherman? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design >>> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > or a month. > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > Who you gonna call! > > > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > programming issues. > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:34:57 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:34:57 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> References: <49ac5d43.0710660a.4be2.ffffab52@mx.google.com> Message-ID: :) -----Original Message----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:27:16 -0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > >> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > or a month. > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > Who you gonna call! > > > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > programming issues. > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 16:37:38 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:37:38 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: When I say I have errors, I mean when I press the Print Sales Report [Sales By Category] button. I used the exe also and got the same error. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > Still have errors. > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > whether you give me a week or a month. > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:04 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> >> <<< >> Mike, can you test they compile, build and run well under VS2008 >> Standard? >>>>> >> Sorry, Mike, I wanted to ask you to test this sample project compiling, >> building and running it under C# 2008 Express. >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 2 16:59:44 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:59:44 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, I have to go to bed - it's 1:50a.m. here and tomorrow at around 7:30a.m. I have to drive my son to school: Let's me summarize current status of development tools of team members: - Gustav - VS2008 Standard - compiles OK VS2008 Prof. solutions with Report Viewer Control, can edit .rdlc reports in desigh mode - Doug - VS2008 Prof - OK; - Mike - C# 2008 Express Edition - still unclear is that version ready to be used to design reports but it should be ready to design forms - so probably we can have Mike designing forms and testing. - John - VS2005 Standard - no yet feedback how well this version compiles sample solution prepared using VS2005 Prof. John could you please test that by downloading samples from: this link http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip or this link http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip ? - Shamil - VS2005 Prof or VS2008 Prof. - both OK. ==== Does everybody have MS SQL 2005 Express or MS SQL 2005. MS SQL 2008 should be OK also. I have both MS SQL 2005 Express and Prof. versions - the backup I posted here http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip can be used with any of them. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:34:57 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:27:16 -0000 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > >> I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it whether you give me a week > > or a month. > > > > Well, you got 24 hrs son then Armageddon. The whole World depends on you. > > Who you gonna call! > > > > > > > > Max > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > > Sent: 02 March 2009 22:21 > > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related > > programming issues. > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Yes, I'm trying it in both 2005 Express and 2008 Express. > > Still have errors. > > > > Maybe I'll just have to buy VS2008 Pro and get it over with. > > Even if I do, I wasn't born with knowledge on how to use it > > whether you give me a week or a month. > > > > This is my first jump. Let's just do it. > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 2 17:16:12 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:16:12 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:32 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Here (great site, bookmark that): > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ Yes, Gustav, I used it as one of the main sources while developing .NET ReportViewer Control reports. > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > Could someone please check this out? Mike? Could you please test? Do you need for that testing very simple project with just one placeholder WinForm and .NET ReportViewer control placeholder report - I can make it in VS2008 Prof. BTW, you can make such simple report by combining several sources from sample projects I have posted here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip with copy here: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:29:09 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Hi Shamil et al > > Here (great site, bookmark that): > > http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > > it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the Express versions. > The 2008 version can be found here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-61E5 > -4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > > However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in the Express versions. > According to this: > > http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report-vi > ewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > > the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c206 > -4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > > but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > > Could someone please check this out? > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > Hi Shamil > > They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > > If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following > sample solutions > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > > and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also qualify as development evnironment. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 17:42:03 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:42:03 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: Message-ID: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> Thanks, Charlotte. I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) > to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express > versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support > add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. > > Charlotte Foust From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 2 20:04:18 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:04:18 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design References: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> Message-ID: VS2008 Pro w/MSDN ordered and overnighted. Still room on my belt to tighten ... if need be. :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Thanks, Charlotte. > I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlotte Foust" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > >> I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) >> to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express >> versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support >> add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. >> >> Charlotte Foust > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Mar 2 21:11:33 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 19:11:33 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design In-Reply-To: References: <20F06644576F462CAA88AC7D6677DE94@Mattys> Message-ID: <15AAAB37E3FF434C851C0A0F579EF3E8@murphy3234aaf1> I downloaded the files and the VS2008 version built fine. Is the Northwind database the regular Northwind file from Microsoft? If so I already have it installed for SQL Server 2005. Thank you all for allowing me to participate. This will be a learning experience for me. My recent coding background is VBA and VB.Net. C# seems readable but I have never built anything in it. Doug -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:22 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design Hi SCRUM team and everybody, My congratulation to the SCRUM team that we got 5 team members! I have made new versions of solutions and also MS SQL 2005 db model. Here are downloads: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet1.zip http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnetdbs.zip Here is the copy on another server: http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet1.zip http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnetdbs.zip You can find three solutions now: - one for VS2005; - another for VS2008; - third one targeted for C# 2008 Express but prepared with VS2008 Prof. (based on William words that C# 2008 Express can't compile classlibs I have just made small Winforms FE app and used classlibs compiled by VS2008 Prof). These "tricks" caused by different versions of VS we have. You can find that I moved placeholder forms and reports into classlibs to make projects configiration which will allow Mike to just develop a form in C# Express and use the forms and reports from classlibs we develop in full VS versions. I have also set references for ReportViewer control v.9 for VS2008 and C# Express 2008 targeted solutuons. Mike could you please test how they work now on your system? (Hope they will work OK, "fingers crossed"). Please Mike try to compile VS2008 targeted solution and C# 2008 targeted solution under C# 2008 Express. If the first will compile, build and run OK then classlibs with Forms and Reports could be merged back to FE. And having Express, Standard and Professioanl editions will not result in excessive manual synchronization work. Who can try to build VS2005 sample solution under VS 2005 Standard and/or VS2008 sample under VS2008 Standard edition to see they compile OK and thefore some of us can have Standard Editons and some of us can have Professional editions to work on this project? Compiled apps now have the following main executables. VS2005 or VS2008 Prof or Standard (maybe C# 2008 Express will work just find with VS2008 Prof. solution) ================================= NorthWind.NET.FE.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll C# 2008 Express (but compiled here under VS2008 Prof) ================= NorthWind.NET.FE.Express.exe NorthWind.NET.FE.Forms.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.FE.Reports.dll - just classlib dll NorthWind.NET.Utilities.dll - just classlib dll Guys, may I ask now you to decide which development environmnet to use - we seems to be moving to 2008 versions Express, Standard, Prof (Gustav, Mike, Doug, Shamil), but John has VS2005 version only and can't get 2008 version. What can we do? - I'd follow your decision - the issue with having 2005 and 2008 versions is that 2008 has some new C# language etc. features and therefore downgrading forms/reports developed in 2008 versions could be an issue - I have never tried to do that downgrade. Maybe you can try to test how it works and if it works well then we can safely (with a little additonal work) use both VS2005 and VS2008 versions. Of we all can use 2005 versions? Another issue with reports develped in 2008 versions - they expected to be quite different from 2005 versions (but 2005 versions could be upgraded to 2008 versions smoothly). Database model in the above download is a proposal - I have made some changes after upsizing tables. I didn't upsize any queries because most of them will be developed differently I expect. I have also added timestamp fields to all tables - almost never used them before, wanted to try to use them in this project - if you think they are not needed then we can remove it. Please note that SCRUMMaster role, which I have committed to for this project is not as a manager, mentor, director - this is a facilitator role IOW you as a team make the final decicions - I can participate in making such decisions because I have to share SCRUMMaster and developer roles in this project but my voice/vote shouldn't have any more "weight" that your votes/voices. To move steadily forward we have to make decisions every day - small, not time consuming - spending approx. 1 hour a working day for this project (for me it's not yet the case here for this project as I'm spending more time on it every day currently but that's OK for now. Hope you're not missing your main business working for this project...) ... Please be more active - if you wanted to do all the further preparatory work when we will start the project - let it be so - then we can start next week - it may take more time if we will not align/find a way how to work with different version of VS, how to share files etc. before we start actual development... I think decision on selecting of VS versions and that we can work and share sources with that selection should be done in advance - if it will not work OK we will not be able to make this project developed effectively... May I ask you to make decisions on: - VS versions you will use and how to solve some discrepancy if that will be 2005 and 2006 versions Express, Standard and Professional; - how we share/synchronize projects: current options: PopFly, MS Live SkyDrive, Google, (after all we can "synchronize" them by just exchanging source files)... We (you) will have to make some other decisions in preparation the project after the two above made/tested. I can participate in discussions but I'd prefer to be a kind of "lurker" for several days now because: - this is not SCRUMMaster responsibility to force the team to make decisions; - I have made quite some proposals already - it's your turn now :)... FYI: I have here an important deadline and I have to work intensively on another project for the next three-four days. Maybe we can/should shift the project start date for additonal week? - I can get back into active mode in the end of this week... For the next three-four days I will be able to spend only one-two hours max, for this project, and I wanted to install TargetProcess during this time and to give it to you to use in the beginning of the next week to define together ProductBacklog (features) and to plan the first SCRUM Sprint etc... Please ask questions if needed on VS versions and other issues and I will try to answer promptly... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:11:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > I installed all Windows Update stuff missed since December Also > installed Visual C# SP1 and VWD SP1 (Includes SQLS2008) Continued > installing VWD_RV_Addon_enu.exe and ReportViewer.exe. > > Shamil's solution will run in Debugging but Build give me these errors: > Error 1 > The type or namespace name 'Reporting' does not exist in the namespace > 'Microsoft' > (are you missing an assembly reference?) C:\ ... > nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCategoryRep > ort.Designer.cs [Line] 73 [Column] 27 NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 2 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly > exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may > get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 3 > Could not resolve this reference. Could not locate the assembly > "Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms, Version=8.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, > PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a". Check to make sure the assembly > exists on disk. If this reference is required by your code, you may > get compilation errors. NorthWind.NET.FE > > Warning 4 > Could not find type 'Microsoft.Reporting.WinForms.ReportViewer'. > Please make sure that the assembly that contains this type is > referenced. If this type is a part of your development project, make > sure that the project has been successfully built. 0 0 > > Warning 5 > The variable 'reportViewer1' is either undeclared or was never assigned. > C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\My Documents\Net > Team\nwnet\NorthWind.NET.VS2008\NorthWind.NET.FE\Reports\SalesByCatego > ryReport.Designer.cs > 59 0 > > Warning 6 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.Common' could not be found. > > Warning 7 > The referenced component 'Microsoft.ReportViewer.WinForms' could not > be found. > > Doesn't look too serious! :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Well, some of this day will be spent on -> Windows Update Express > > SP1 > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> Hi Shamil et al > >> > >> Here (great site, bookmark that): > >> > >> http://www.gotreportviewer.com/ > >> > >> it is stated that the ReportViewer is a separate download for the > >> Express versions. > >> The 2008 version can be found here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CC96C246-6 > >> 1E5-4D9E-BB5F-416D75A1B9EF&displaylang=en > >> > >> However, I'm not sure, if this allows for _design_ of reports in > >> the Express versions. > >> According to this: > >> > >> http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/adlaim/archive/2008/12/27/report > >> -viewer-for-visual-web-developer-express.aspx > >> > >> the Web edition does, and the report designer can be downloaded here: > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b67b9445-c > >> 206-4ff7-8716-a8129370fa1d&DisplayLang=en > >> > >> but nothing is stated for the C# Express Developer for WinForms. > >> > >> Could someone please check this out? > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 02-03-2009 08:40:26 >>> > >> Hi Shamil > >> > >> They both do here on WinXP. Will try later at home where Vista is > >> running but as I use the two machines quite a lot with VS and > >> reports, I would be highly surprised if your sample would fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-03-2009 07:38 >>> > >> > >> If VS2005 and VS2008 Standard Edition compile well the following > >> sample solutions > >> > >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet.zip (~400KB) > >> > >> and allow to use .NET ReportViewer control in design mode they also > >> qualify as development evnironment. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 00:18:32 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:18:32 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> References: <345D17F12E934259A788B16929BFBFFB@Mattys> Message-ID: Chercher la femme! :) (And you'll get convinced/inspired to get VS2008 Prof. I mean :)) Thank you, Charlotte. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:42:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > Thanks, Charlotte. > I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlotte Foust" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) > > to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express > > versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support > > add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 01:10:18 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:10:18 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmVwb3J0Vmlld2VyIGFuZCByZXBvcnQgZGVzaWdu?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Mike! > Still room on my belt to tighten ... if need be. :) The same here :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:04:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > VS2008 Pro w/MSDN ordered and overnighted. > Still room on my belt to tighten ... if need be. :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:42 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > Thanks, Charlotte. > > I'll obtain VS2008 Pro and stop wasting time. > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Charlotte Foust" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > > Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:16 PM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ReportViewer and report design > > > > > >> I'm lurking on this thread because I don't have time (or interest in C#) > >> to get involved, but I think you'll have trouble with the express > >> versions and any add-ins. VS Express specifically does NOT support > >> add-ins, so this could be a problem for you. > >> > >> Charlotte Foust > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 01:36:42 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:36:42 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) Doug: VS2008 Prof. John: VS2005 Standard Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. ==== Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? Any thoughts on that issue? Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 3 03:34:20 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John using the free Express edition no matter what. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> Hi Gustav at all, If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh the list of links to visit etc. Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). No, we do not need Add-ins I think. If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express solutiuon. I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed on the same PC? I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip (copy http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) The above archives have: - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 Report Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be fine for. > Could you explain that please? > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those capable of that? > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > Hi All, > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: VS2005 Standard > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > ==== > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 04:09:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:09:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav at all, OK. We have somebody to test soltuion for C# 2008 Express - the ones I posted here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip then we can see what arhcitecture the sample project shoudl have to let John cooperate having just C# 2008 Express. Maybe there is somewhere VMWare VM with Windows XP (or other WIndows OS) and C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express - then I can use such VM here over weekend to test. We probably need one more week for preparation of John's environmnet to fit the other team members? John? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> > > Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John using the free Express edition no matter what. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> > > Hi Gustav at all, > > If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh the list of links to visit etc. > Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). > > No, we do not need Add-ins I think. > > If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express solutiuon. > > I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? > > Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed on the same PC? > > I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. > > For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > (copy > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) > > The above archives have: > > - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; > > - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 Report > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi Shamil > > > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be fine for. > > Could you explain that please? > > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those capable of that? > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > > Hi All, > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > John: VS2005 Standard > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > ==== > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 3 09:07:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:07:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, I have got VMMare Server running on my Vista Ultimate PC with one WinXP Sp2 VM. The issue is that Vista doesn't see this XP VM, and XP VM doesn't see the Vista host/outer world. Do you have any info how to tune WMWare Server network settings (using "Manage Virual Networks" feature?) to get it visible from Vista host and vice versa? I have also got downloaded "All-in-one-CD" for All 2008 Express Editions, and I have got ReportViewer 2008 Control redistrubutables. If nobody will have ready to use C# 2008 Express environment to test these samples: > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip then I will try to test them over weekend installing C# 2008 Express on WinXP VM to see what architecture our project should have to have a team member with only C# 2008 Express working with us having VS2008 Standard or Prof. editions. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:09:12 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi Gustav at all, > > OK. > > We have somebody to test soltuion for C# 2008 Express - the ones I posted here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > then we can see what arhcitecture the sample project shoudl have to let John cooperate having just C# 2008 Express. > > Maybe there is somewhere VMWare VM with Windows XP (or other WIndows OS) and C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express - then I can use such VM here over weekend to test. > > We probably need one more week for preparation of John's environmnet to fit the other team members? > > John? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi Shamil > > > > < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> > > > > Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John using the free Express edition no matter what. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> > > > > Hi Gustav at all, > > > > If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh the list of links to visit etc. > > Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). > > > > No, we do not need Add-ins I think. > > > > If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express solutiuon. > > > > I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? > > > > Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed on the same PC? > > > > I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. > > > > For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): > > > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > (copy > > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) > > > > The above archives have: > > > > - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; > > > > - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 Report > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Hi Shamil > > > > > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > > > > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be fine for. > > > Could you explain that please? > > > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those capable of that? > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > > John: VS2005 Standard > > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > > ==== > > > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 Standard? > > > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 10:28:40 2009 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:28:40 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shamil, Generally the network errors may be due to the settings in your VM for the nic card. The settings are to set the nic as Bridged, NAT or Host-Only. Setting as Bridge makes the VM act like a standalone pc where you can communicate from your host to the guest and the guest back to the host as if each was it's own hardware pc. Setting it as NAT, then you have essentially a firewall on the guest pc and you can't reach it from the host you can only go from guest to host. Host-Only is a nice feature in that the guest pc can only talk to the host. The host pc will be able to work as normal, and will also have access to the guest pc via the network. my typical settings are to setup vm workstations as bridged. btw, I was reading through this thread and while I am not familiar enough with C# I'd like to observe the project as I know I'd learn a great deal from it. I do have VS2008 std. -Francisco http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... 2009/3/3 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Hi Gustav at all, > > OK. > > We have somebody to test soltuion for C# 2008 Express - the ones I posted > here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > then we can see what arhcitecture the sample project shoudl have to let > John cooperate having just C# 2008 Express. > > Maybe there is somewhere VMWare VM with Windows XP (or other WIndows OS) > and C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express - then I can use such VM here over > weekend to test. > > We probably need one more week for preparation of John's environmnet to fit > the other team members? > > John? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > - Show quoted text - > To: > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:34:20 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi Shamil > > > > < I think our latest posts did not reach the list ...> > > > > Oh, if John has the Action Pack (I believe so) and take the tiny test to > qualify for the complimentary web developer tools, these will not be send > from day-to-day, it could take months. So I think we have to rely on John > using the free Express edition no matter what. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 10:17 >>> > > > > Hi Gustav at all, > > > > If John can get Action Pack with VS2006 Standard spenidng one hour - that > would be the best for all of us. Maybe we can help John spend less than one > hour to acquire the Action Pack by prefilling some forsm for him, preparingh > the list of links to visit etc. > > Are youure the cost of this Action Pack acquisition is only one hour? > (Not counting installation of VS2008 Standard). > > > > No, we do not need Add-ins I think. > > > > If C# 2008 Express can't be used to design ReportViewer reports then we > can separate the part of application with reports in compiled classlib .dll > and this classlinb with reports can be referenced from C# 2008 Express > solutiuon. > > > > I do not have C# 2008 Express to test how it can work, do you? > > > > Does somebody else "lurking" here have C# 2008 Express or VB 2008 Express > plus has ReportViewer 2008 (or 2005) related assemblies/runtimes installed > on the same PC? > > > > I can prepare test VB 2008 Soltiuon Application with referenced classlib > with sample ReportViewer report to test how it works. > > > > For C# 2008 Express such test solutions are prepared here (!new some > fixes for ReportViewer compiled classlibs): > > > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > (copy > > http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/download/nwnet3.zip) > > > > The above archives have: > > > > - NorthWind.NET.Express2008 - FE C# project with compiled classlibs one > of which has sample ReportViever 2008 report; > > > > - and NorthWind.NET.VS2008SS - just FE with sample ReportViewer 2008 > Report > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:42:35 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Hi Shamil > > > > > > Well, I asked John about the Action Pack and the way to obtain the > developer tools but I admit that will cost him an hour or so. > > > > > > That said, I haven't quite understand why libraries or add-ins really > is needed for a simple task like this which Visual Studio Express should be > fine for. > > > Could you explain that please? > > > If it is only the reports, we could allocate the report design to those > capable of that? > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 03-03-2009 08:36 >>> > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > > John: VS2005 Standard > > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > > ==== > > > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 > Standard? > > > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If > more can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 3 11:10:06 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:10:06 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: The version I purchased is product UEH-00006 If necessary, I could upgrade with some help. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:36 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi All, > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: VS2005 Standard > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > ==== > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 > Standard? > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more > can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From paul.hartland at googlemail.com Wed Mar 4 04:04:54 2009 From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:04:54 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic Message-ID: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> To all, Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : usp_MyStoredProcedure ( @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), @dtiJobDate [datetime], @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) ) AS BEGIN DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT UPDATE dbo.MyTable SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND ( @nvcCode = 'A' OR @nvcCode = 'N' ) AND ( AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR AvailabilityCode= 'N' ) SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, @nvcPayroll SELECT * FROM MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll END If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I have a simple piece of VB code as below: Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then DE.Conn.Open Endif Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") msgbox rs.fields(0) DE.Conn.Close ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding to the requested name or ordinal. However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT statement it returns the resultset. Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. Thanks in advance for any help on this.... -- Paul Hartland paul.hartland at googlemail.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 04:39:47 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 13:39:47 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?Q2FuJ3QgR2V0IFNlbGVjdCBSZXN1bHRzIEluIFZpc3Vh?= =?koi8-r?b?bCBCYXNpYw==?= In-Reply-To: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, Try to put SET NOCOUNT ON before DECLARE statement. HTH -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hartland To: Access List ,VisualBasicList ,SQLServerList Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:04:54 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic > To all, > > Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the > following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : > > usp_MyStoredProcedure > ( > @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), > @dtiJobDate [datetime], > @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) > ) > AS > BEGIN > DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT > UPDATE dbo.MyTable > SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode > WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND > JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND > ( > @nvcCode = 'A' OR > @nvcCode = 'N' > ) AND > ( > AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR > AvailabilityCode= 'N' > ) > > SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT > DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) > SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, > @nvcPayroll > SELECT * > FROM MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > END > > If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM > MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I have > a simple piece of VB code as below: > > Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset > If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then > DE.Conn.Open > Endif > Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & > format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") > msgbox rs.fields(0) > > DE.Conn.Close > > ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server > > The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding to > the requested name or ordinal. > > However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT > statement it returns the resultset. > > Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. > > Thanks in advance for any help on this.... > > > > > > > -- > Paul Hartland > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 4 04:50:17 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:50:17 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic In-Reply-To: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AEE989.16930.1A61897@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've run into very similar problems trying to use conditional execution and multiple selects in a SP called through ODBC (in my case using the SQLTools ODBC library with PowerBasic). It appears to be a limitation of the ODBC/ADODB drivers. In the end I had to split the one SP which worked fine in SQL Server into several separate calls to simple SPs and handle the conditional stuff in my PB code between calls. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but I suspect you may have to end up doing the same. -- Stuart On 4 Mar 2009 at 10:04, Paul Hartland wrote: > To all, > > Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the > following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : > > usp_MyStoredProcedure > ( > @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), > @dtiJobDate [datetime], > @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) > ) > AS > BEGIN > DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT > UPDATE dbo.MyTable > SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode > WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND > JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND > ( > @nvcCode = 'A' OR > @nvcCode = 'N' > ) AND > ( > AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR > AvailabilityCode= 'N' > ) > > SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT > DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) > SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, > @nvcPayroll > SELECT * > FROM MyTable2 > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > END > > If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM > MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I have > a simple piece of VB code as below: > > Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset > If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then > DE.Conn.Open > Endif > Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & > format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") > msgbox rs.fields(0) > > DE.Conn.Close > > ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server > > The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding to > the requested name or ordinal. > > However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT > statement it returns the resultset. > > Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. > > Thanks in advance for any help on this.... > > > > > > > -- > Paul Hartland > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at googlemail.com Wed Mar 4 04:56:29 2009 From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:56:29 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic In-Reply-To: References: <38c884770903040204x2d3de41fgfcafd31c84e50a7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <38c884770903040256w607637bbhb05cbd7f0d7d5ff8@mail.gmail.com> DOH, Thank you very much for ending my nightmare, can't believe I missed that. Paul 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > Hi Paul, > > Try to put > > SET NOCOUNT ON > > before DECLARE > > statement. > > HTH > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Hartland > To: Access List ,VisualBasicList < > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>,SQLServerList < > dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:04:54 +0000 > Subject: [dba-VB] Can't Get Select Results In Visual Basic > > > To all, > > > > Sorry about cross posting this but really having a nightmare, I have the > > following store procedure in SQL Server 2005 : > > > > usp_MyStoredProcedure > > ( > > @nvcPayroll [nvarchar](50), > > @dtiJobDate [datetime], > > @nvcCode [nvarchar](1) > > ) > > AS > > BEGIN > > DECLARE @intUpdateFailed INT > > UPDATE dbo.MyTable > > SET AvailabilityCode=@nvcCode > > WHERE PayrollNo = @nvcPayroll AND > > JobDate = @dtiJobDate AND > > ( > > @nvcCode = 'A' OR > > @nvcCode = 'N' > > ) AND > > ( > > AvailabilityCode= 'A' OR > > AvailabilityCode= 'N' > > ) > > > > SET @intUpdateFailed=@@ROWCOUNT > > DELETE FROM dbo.MyTable2 > > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > > INSERT INTO MyTable2 (WebResult, PayrollNo) > > SELECT CASE WHEN @intUpdateFailed>0 THEN 'Success' ELSE 'Failed' END, > > @nvcPayroll > > SELECT * > > FROM MyTable2 > > WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll > > END > > > > If I run this in SQL Server seems to work fine, and the SELECT * FROM > > MyTable2 WHERE PayrollNo=@nvcPayroll returns all the fields. However I > have > > a simple piece of VB code as below: > > > > Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset > > If DE.Conn.Start = adStateClosed Then > > DE.Conn.Open > > Endif > > Set rs = DE.Conn.Execute(usp_MyStoredProcedure '999999', '" & > > format(Date,"mm/dd/yy") & "','N'") > > msgbox rs.fields(0) > > > > DE.Conn.Close > > > > ' DE.Conn is a DataEnvironment connection which links to the SQL Server > > > > The vb code returns Item cannot be found in the collection corresponding > to > > the requested name or ordinal. > > > > However if I run the SP, then comment out everything except the SELECT > > statement it returns the resultset. > > > > Can anyone tell me what is happening or what I am doing wrong please. > > > > Thanks in advance for any help on this.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Paul Hartland > > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Paul Hartland paul.hartland at googlemail.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 4 16:34:45 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:34:45 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: <62B0851A80E642D0923A2365152D591C@Mattys> Hi Shamil, I am installing 'as we speak.' I can use the extra week because I just got a good size project. Thank you also! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Mike Mattys" Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:25 PM Subject: Re[2]: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Please see first my previous message concerning C# Express 2008 tests. > Based on that tests' results our team can now use 2008 versions: > > C# 2008 Express, VS2008 Standard and VS 2008 Prof: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: C# 2008 Express > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. > > Please approve that. > > Thank you Mike for your purchasing of VS2008 Prof. > Thank you all for your help with testing sample projects. > > I must say I spent quite some time during this week to prepare different > configurations or test projects, to make VMWAre installation on Vista > Ultimate, to download and burn setup disks, to run setups and compile, > build and run tests. > > That was a long way to get the current good result. > Witt nowaday knowledge I'd go shorter way, namely: > > - make very simple VS2008 Winforms project with placeholder sample > ReportViewer control report; > - install VMWare Player 2.x on Vista or better just use VMWare Server > installed on my another development PC; > - download "All-in-One" Express CD and ReportViewer Control > Redistributables SP1; > - install C# 2008 Express and ReportViewer Redist. on Win XP SP2 VM; > - copy simple sample project to VM and test it to see that it works OK; > > --- > That shorter way would have saved me a couple+ of working days. > --- > Lessons learned. Some other byside results achieved during the above > tests. > --- > We can start working on project now when Mike will get hist VS2008 Prof,. > will install it and play with it a little, and when John will get C# 2008 > Express installed. > --- > I'd propose now to shift project start for one week to 16th of March. The > reason for me is that I have spent quite some time on this work during > thsi week, and I have urgent project to work on very intensively. > The reason for Mike and John could be to adpat a little bit to VS 2008 > Prof and C# 2008 Express. > I'd also need to setup TargetProcess - and that isn't straightforward as > this shoudl be manual installation first tested on local PC and then > deployed on my ASP.NET hosting. I wanted also to make some > setup/adjustmentd on SCRUM at Extreme web site. > And we also have to find a way how to share/synchronize our source code: > Coudl you please look at - http://www.gladinet.com/ - I have it installed > here and it allows to use MS Live SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer, > the same coudl be done for Google Docs and some other (Free) Internet > Storage providers... > Even with shifted project start date we can discuss during the next week > how to organize the source code within the solution, and the related > issues... > > Please post your thoughts/proposals here. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:10:06 -0500 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > >> The version I purchased is product UEH-00006 >> If necessary, I could upgrade with some help. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning >> Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:36 AM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have >> >> >> > Hi All, >> > >> > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: >> > >> > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard >> > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) >> > Doug: VS2008 Prof. >> > John: VS2005 Standard >> > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. >> > ==== >> > >> > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 >> > Standard? >> > >> > Any thoughts on that issue? >> > >> > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If >> > more >> > can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 16:45:06 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 01:45:06 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent form/report as grids/tables. The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period of time than the other "ligher" ones... This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of Product Backlog Entries. Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent as possible. Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by time and space? Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the below BackLog if you see some issues with it. N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole responsibility of ProductOwner.... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Product Backlog Forms ==== 1. Categories 2. Customer Labels Dialog 3. Customer Orders 4. Customer Orders Subform1 5. Customer Orders Subform2 6. Customer Phone List 7. Customers 8. Employees 9. Main Switchboard 10. Orders 11. Orders Subform 12. Product List 13. Products 14. Quarterly Orders 15. Quarterly Orders Subform 16. Sales Analysis 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 19. Sales by Year Dialog 20. Sales Reports Dialog 21. Startup 22. Suppliers Reports ===== 1. Alphabetical List of Products 2. Catalog 3. Catalog Subreport 4. Customer Labels 5. Employee Sales by Country 6. Invoice 7. Products by Category 8. Sales by Category 9. Sales by Category Subreport 10. Sales by Year 11. Sales by Year Subreport 12. Sales Totals by Amount 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter 14. Summary of Sales by Year From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 17:35:13 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:35:13 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?IFJlWzJdOiBTY3J1bSAmIEMjIC0gVlMgdmVyc2lvbnMg?= =?koi8-r?b?d2UgaGF2ZQ==?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Today I have tested C# 2008 Express with VS2008 Prof. solution, which you have got downloaded from http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip that was the solution named NorthWind.NET.VS2008 - usual VS2008 solution with WinForms FE project, console project and several class library projects. One of the classlibs has also ReportViewer control and .rdlc placeholder report. That solutuon wascompiled, built and run OK. I have done C# 2008 Express installation from "All-in-One" Express CD freely available on MS site http://www.microsoft.com/express/download/offline.aspx I have also installed Microsoft Report Viewer Redistributable 2005 Service Pack 1 http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=82833F27-081D-4B72-83EF-2836360A904D&displaylang=en The above installations were done of a Win XP2 SP2 without .NET Framework. Recap: 1) C# 2008 Express compiles, builds and runs well VS2008 Prof. Solutions with several source projects and source class libraries http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express1.jpg 2) C# 2008 Express does need additionally MS Report Viewer Redistributable Service Pack 1 installation to run ReportViewer control reports http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express2.jpg 3) C# 2008 setup installs quite some other prerequisites http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express.jpg BUT 4) C# 2008 Express *does not* have design mode for ReportView Control reports - .rdlc files - they have to be edited manually as text(XML) files within solution. 5) C# Express doesn't have debug/release modes but still code can be debugged ===================== Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:10:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > The version I purchased is product UEH-00006 > If necessary, I could upgrade with some help. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:36 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > Hi All, > > > > I wanted to post the current status of VS versions we have: > > > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard and VS2005 Standard > > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > > John: VS2005 Standard > > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. and VS2005 Prof. > > ==== > > > > Shoudln't we try to find a way to help get John get upgraded to VS2008 > > Standard? > > > > Any thoughts on that issue? > > > > Mike, the MSDN version you ordered has just one license or more? If more > > can you give one borrowed by John, at least temporarily? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 4 17:36:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:36:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Please see first my previous message concerning C# Express 2008 tests. Based on that tests' results our team can now use 2008 versions: C# 2008 Express, VS2008 Standard and VS 2008 Prof: Gustav: VS2008 Standard Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) Doug: VS2008 Prof. John: C# 2008 Express Shamil: VS2008 Prof. Please approve that. Thank you Mike for your purchasing of VS2008 Prof. Thank you all for your help with testing sample projects. I must say I spent quite some time during this week to prepare different configurations or test projects, to make VMWAre installation on Vista Ultimate, to download and burn setup disks, to run setups and compile, build and run tests. That was a long way to get the current good result. Witt nowaday knowledge I'd go shorter way, namely: - make very simple VS2008 Winforms project with placeholder sample ReportViewer control report; - install VMWare Player 2.x on Vista or better just use VMWare Server installed on my another development PC; - download "All-in-One" Express CD and ReportViewer Control Redistributables SP1; - install C# 2008 Express and ReportViewer Redist. on Win XP SP2 VM; - copy simple sample project to VM and test it to see that it works OK; --- That shorter way would have saved me a couple+ of working days. --- Lessons learned. Some other byside results achieved during the above tests. --- We can start working on project now when Mike will get hist VS2008 Prof,. will install it and play with it a little, and when John will get C# 2008 Express installed. --- I'd propose now to shift project start for one week to 16th of March. The reason for me is that I have spent quite some time on this work during thsi week, and I have urgent project to work on very intensively. The reason for Mike and John could be to adpat a little bit to VS 2008 Prof and C# 2008 Express. I'd also need to setup TargetProcess - and that isn't straightforward as this shoudl be manual installation first tested on local PC and then deployed on my ASP.NET hosting. I wanted also to make some setup/adjustmentd on SCRUM at Extreme web site. And we also have to find a way how to share/synchronize our source code: Coudl you please look at - http://www.gladinet.com/ - I have it installed here and it allows to use MS Live SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer, the same coudl be done for Google Docs and some other (Free) Internet Storage providers... Even with shifted project start date we can discuss during the next week how to organize the source code within the solution, and the related issues... Please post your thoughts/proposals here. Thank you. -- Shamil From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 4 20:28:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:28:58 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: <62B0851A80E642D0923A2365152D591C@Mattys> Message-ID: <0457C88B5BCA4FA588E242678DF59EC8@Mattys> Ha! Figures. I get VS2008 installed, go out and return from dinner ... Upon starting the program, I'm taken immediately to 10-4 Episode 2: Welcome to Visual Studio 2010 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" Cc: "dba-VB" Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil, > > I am installing 'as we speak.' > I can use the extra week because I just got a good size project. > Thank you also! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 00:10:53 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 09:10:53 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Francesco, Thank you for your replay. The following is just for information. I have got installed VMWare Player v.2.x I managed VM to see outer world (local LAN PCs) and the Internet. But VM still can't access Vista's shares, and Vista's shares *are* accessable from other PCs in the LAN. Vista host can't access guest VM's shares but those shares *are* accessable from other PCs in the LAN. VMWare Player doesn't seem to have any tools to tune VM Network configuration. I have checked Vista's firewall - it allow VMWare player to access host. I currently decided to leave it as it's - I have posted a message in VMWare community with the question how to tune VMWare Player for its guest VM to see the host shares. No definitive advises yet. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Francisco Tapia To: Salakhetdinov Shamil Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:38:59 -0800 Subject: Re: Re[2]: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Shamil, I was referring to the nic configurations within the VM workstation > application. you should see under the settings for the VM the different > types of NICs you can use. the VM Network Configuration utility is more for > fine tuning things like IP ranges or adding additional nics that you want to > behave in a different way... my case I have a wifi and a LAN nic. so I have > my wifi be the bridge nic and the WIFI be the NAT, it's the way I chose to > configure it but you can do so any which way you want. > > > -Francisco > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > > 2009/3/3 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > > > Hi Francisco, > > > > You're welcome to observe the project progress! > > > > Thank for your information on VMWare. > > It should be easy to fix I guess but I must say it's not clear yet here how > > to do that: > > > > Maybe from the following info from my "VMWare Manager Virtual Networks" > > form > > you can just point me what should be changed? (I must say I didn't read the > > VMWare docs): > > > > > > ===================================== > > [Summary] > > VMNet0 (Bridged) - Bridged to an automatically chosen Adapter - > > 255.255.255.255 > > VMNet1(Host-Only) - A private network shared with the host - 192.168.116.0 > > - Enabled > > VMNet8 (NAT) - Used to share the host's IP Address - 192.168.119.0 - > > Enabled > > > > [Automatic Bridging] > > [x] Automatically choose an available physical netwrok adapter to bridge to > > VMNet0 > > > > Excluded Adapters (Do not attempt to Bridge to teh following adapters) > > - Interl(R) Pro/Wireless... > > - Broadcom 440x 10/100 Integrated Controler > > - Blutooth Device (Personal Area Network) > > > > ? Maybe exclude some of them - I do use only wireless adapter to > > communicate with my LAN > > > > [Host Virtual Network Mapping] > > VMnet0 - Bridged to an automatically choses adapter > > VMnet1 - VMWare Network Adapter VMnet1 > > VMnet8 - VMWare Network Adapter VMnet8 > > > > [Host Virtual Adapters] > > VMWare Network Adapter VMNet1 - VMNet1 - Enabled > > VMWare Network Adapter VMNet8 - VMNet8 - Enabled > > > > [DHCP] > > VMNet1 - 192.168.116.0 - 255.255.255.0 - vmnet1 > > VMNet8 - 192.168.119.0 - 255.255.255.0 - vmnet8 > > > > [NAT] > > VMNet host: VMNet8 > > ======================================= > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > - Show quoted text - > > From: Francisco Tapia > > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:28:40 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Shamil, Generally the network errors may be due to the settings in your > > VM > > > for the nic card. The settings are to set the nic as Bridged, NAT or > > > Host-Only. Setting as Bridge makes the VM act like a standalone pc where > > > you can communicate from your host to the guest and the guest back to the > > > host as if each was it's own hardware pc. Setting it as NAT, then you > > have > > > essentially a firewall on the guest pc and you can't reach it from the > > host > > > you can only go from guest to host. Host-Only is a nice feature in that > > the > > > guest pc can only talk to the host. The host pc will be able to work as > > > normal, and will also have access to the guest pc via the network. > > > > > > my typical settings are to setup vm workstations as bridged. > > > > > > btw, I was reading through this thread and while I am not familiar enough > > > with C# I'd like to observe the project as I know I'd learn a great deal > > > from it. > > > > > > I do have VS2008 std. > > > > > > -Francisco > > > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > > > > > > > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 00:14:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 09:14:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: <0457C88B5BCA4FA588E242678DF59EC8@Mattys> References: <0457C88B5BCA4FA588E242678DF59EC8@Mattys> Message-ID: My congratulations, Mike! Yes, Visual Studio 10/.NET Framework 4 promise a lot of new features - by the time they will be released you should have already a good working skills of programming in .NET Framework using WinForms etc. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:28:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Ha! Figures. > > I get VS2008 installed, go out and return from dinner ... > > Upon starting the program, I'm taken immediately to > 10-4 Episode 2: Welcome to Visual Studio 2010 > > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > Cc: "dba-VB" > Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:34 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > Hi Shamil, > > > > I am installing 'as we speak.' > > I can use the extra week because I just got a good size project. > > Thank you also! > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 02:53:08 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 11:53:08 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zICB3ZSBoYXZl?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Sorry that was mistyping - of course I used 2008 ReportViewer SP1 Redistributables: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=BB196D5D-76C2-4A0E-9458-267D22B6AAC6&displaylang=en -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:39:33 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > That's a lot you have been through! So only one question: Why the 2005 version of Report Viewer Redistributable? > As we all run VS2008 in some version, the Report Viewer Redistributable 2008 SP1 is available. > > Microsoft Report Viewer 2008 SP1 Redistributable: > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=BB196D5D-76C2-4A0E-9458-267D22B6AAC6&displaylang=en > > The only reason I can think of is: > > > Required Software: > .NET Framework version 3.5 SP1: You must install the .NET Framework Redistributable Package version 3.5 SP1 prior to installing the Microsoft Report Viewer 2008 SP1 Redistributable > > > This means that the minimum OS to be used is Windows XP as .Net 3.5 is not for Windows 2000, but is that an issue? Will we be programming for .Net 2.0 and Windows 2000? > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-03-2009 00:35 >>> > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Today I have tested C# 2008 Express with VS2008 Prof. solution, which you have got downloaded from > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/nwnet3.zip > > that was the solution named NorthWind.NET.VS2008 - usual VS2008 solution with WinForms FE project, console project and several class library projects. One of the classlibs has also ReportViewer control and .rdlc placeholder report. > > That solutuon wascompiled, built and run OK. > > I have done C# 2008 Express installation from "All-in-One" Express CD freely available on MS site > > http://www.microsoft.com/express/download/offline.aspx > > I have also installed > > Microsoft Report Viewer Redistributable 2005 Service Pack 1 > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=82833F27-081D-4B72-83EF-2836360A904D&displaylang=en > > The above installations were done of a Win XP2 SP2 without .NET Framework. > > Recap: > 1) C# 2008 Express compiles, builds and runs well VS2008 Prof. Solutions with several source projects and source class libraries > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express1.jpg > > 2) C# 2008 Express does need additionally MS Report Viewer Redistributable Service Pack 1 installation to run ReportViewer control reports > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express2.jpg > > 3) C# 2008 setup installs quite some other prerequisites > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/download/scrum/cs2008express.jpg > > BUT > > 4) C# 2008 Express *does not* have design mode for ReportView Control reports - .rdlc files - they have to be edited manually as text(XML) files within solution. > > 5) C# Express doesn't have debug/release modes but still code can be debugged > ===================== > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 5 03:01:25 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:01:25 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, thank you. Yes, Gladinet looks interesting - I can use it with SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer. And it can mount my SkyDrive as logical device e.g. Z: It would be useful if Gladinet can somehow mount just public part of SkyDrive for all of us to use it as code vault for source code control... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:55:06 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > Approved. > Also, 16. March is fine for me. > > Gladinet looks quite interesting! > http://www.gladinet.com > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-03-2009 00:36 >>> > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Please see first my previous message concerning C# Express 2008 tests. > Based on that tests' results our team can now use 2008 versions: > > C# 2008 Express, VS2008 Standard and VS 2008 Prof: > > Gustav: VS2008 Standard > Mike: VS2008 Prof. (is on the way) > Doug: VS2008 Prof. > John: C# 2008 Express > Shamil: VS2008 Prof. > > Please approve that. > > Thank you Mike for your purchasing of VS2008 Prof. > Thank you all for your help with testing sample projects. > > I must say I spent quite some time during this week to prepare different configurations or test projects, to make VMWAre installation on Vista Ultimate, to download and burn setup disks, to run setups and compile, build and run tests. > > That was a long way to get the current good result. > Witt nowaday knowledge I'd go shorter way, namely: > > - make very simple VS2008 Winforms project with placeholder sample ReportViewer control report; > - install VMWare Player 2.x on Vista or better just use VMWare Server installed on my another development PC; > - download "All-in-One" Express CD and ReportViewer Control Redistributables SP1; > - install C# 2008 Express and ReportViewer Redist. on Win XP SP2 VM; > - copy simple sample project to VM and test it to see that it works OK; > > --- > That shorter way would have saved me a couple+ of working days. > --- > Lessons learned. Some other byside results achieved during the above tests. > --- > We can start working on project now when Mike will get hist VS2008 Prof,. will install it and play with it a little, and when John will get C# 2008 Express installed. > --- > I'd propose now to shift project start for one week to 16th of March. The reason for me is that I have spent quite some time on this work during thsi week, and I have urgent project to work on very intensively. > The reason for Mike and John could be to adpat a little bit to VS 2008 Prof and C# 2008 Express. > I'd also need to setup TargetProcess - and that isn't straightforward as this shoudl be manual installation first tested on local PC and then deployed on my ASP.NET hosting. I wanted also to make some setup/adjustmentd on SCRUM at Extreme web site. > And we also have to find a way how to share/synchronize our source code: > Coudl you please look at - http://www.gladinet.com/ - I have it installed here and it allows to use MS Live SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer, the same coudl be done for Google Docs and some other (Free) Internet Storage providers... > Even with shifted project start date we can discuss during the next week how to organize the source code within the solution, and the related issues... > > Please post your thoughts/proposals here. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 6 10:53:28 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:53:28 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model Message-ID: Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > In .. .aspx.cs file: private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. Any suggestions? /gustav > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { IQueryable query; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { query = from Location location in this.Location where location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) select location; } else { query = from Location location in this.Location select location; } return (query as ObjectQuery); } } *** From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 7 08:27:15 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:27:15 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model Message-ID: Hi all I finally found out how to return Location rather than anonymous types: public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { ObjectQuery locationByOwner; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { locationByOwner = Location .Where("it.Owner.Id = @ownerId", new ObjectParameter ("ownerId", _locationFilterOwner.Id)); } else { locationByOwner = Location; } return locationByOwner; } } Now, how could I use the object Owner as parameter and not Owner.Id? This is not accepted: .Where("it.Owner = @owner", new ObjectParameter ("owner", _locationFilterOwner)); as only scalar values are accepted as parameter values. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 06-03-2009 17:53 >>> Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > In .. .aspx.cs file: private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. Any suggestions? /gustav > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { IQueryable query; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { query = from Location location in this.Location where location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) select location; } else { query = from Location location in this.Location select location; } return (query as ObjectQuery); } } *** From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 7 08:41:25 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:41:25 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model Message-ID: Hi all Also, the fill method is now vastly reduced. protected void OwnerDropDownList_Init(object sender, EventArgs e) { LocationDropDownList.DataValueField = "Id"; LocationDropDownList.DataTextField = "Location1"; } private void FillLocationDropDownList() { LocationDropDownList.DataSource = _erhvervslejeContext.LocationByOwnerQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 07-03-2009 15:27 >>> Hi all I finally found out how to return Location rather than anonymous types: public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { ObjectQuery locationByOwner; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { locationByOwner = Location .Where("it.Owner.Id = @ownerId", new ObjectParameter ("ownerId", _locationFilterOwner.Id)); } else { locationByOwner = Location; } return locationByOwner; } } Now, how could I use the object Owner as parameter and not Owner.Id? This is not accepted: .Where("it.Owner = @owner", new ObjectParameter ("owner", _locationFilterOwner)); as only scalar values are accepted as parameter values. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 06-03-2009 17:53 >>> Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > In .. .aspx.cs file: private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): private void FillLocationDropDownList() { var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location select new { Id = l.Id, Location1 = l.Location1 }).ToList(); LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); } Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. Any suggestions? /gustav > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery { get { IQueryable query; if (_locationFilterOwner != null) { query = from Location location in this.Location where location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) select location; } else { query = from Location location in this.Location select location; } return (query as ObjectQuery); } } *** From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 9 16:23:58 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:23:58 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?QURPLk5FVCBFbnRpdHkgTW9kZWw=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Thank you for your information on ADO.NET Entity Model. I must say I personally haven't yet tried to use it... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:41:25 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ADO.NET Entity Model > Hi all > > Also, the fill method is now vastly reduced. > > protected void OwnerDropDownList_Init(object sender, EventArgs e) > { > LocationDropDownList.DataValueField = "Id"; > LocationDropDownList.DataTextField = "Location1"; > } > > private void FillLocationDropDownList() > { > LocationDropDownList.DataSource = _erhvervslejeContext.LocationByOwnerQuery; > LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); > } > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 07-03-2009 15:27 >>> > Hi all > > I finally found out how to return Location rather than anonymous types: > > public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery > { > get > { > ObjectQuery locationByOwner; > if (_locationFilterOwner != null) > { > locationByOwner = > Location > .Where("it.Owner.Id = @ownerId", > new ObjectParameter ("ownerId", _locationFilterOwner.Id)); > } > else > { > locationByOwner = > Location; > } > return locationByOwner; > } > } > > Now, how could I use the object Owner as parameter and not Owner.Id? > This is not accepted: > > .Where("it.Owner = @owner", new ObjectParameter ("owner", _locationFilterOwner)); > > as only scalar values are accepted as parameter values. > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 06-03-2009 17:53 >>> > Hi all, sorry being serious on a Friday, but this is really bugging me ... > > I wish to retrieve a list of locations for the DataSource of a DropDownList. > The entity model does have a collection of Location which I can retrieve and cast to a list like this: > > > In .. .aspx.cs file: > > private void FillLocationDropDownList() > { > var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location > select new > { > Id = l.Id, > Location1 = l.Location1 > }).ToList(); > LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; > LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); > } > > However, I have added an ObjectQuery to the entity model, which filters Location, LocationByOwnerQuery (shown below): > > private void FillLocationDropDownList() > { > var locationQuery = (from l in _erhvervslejeContext.Location > select new > { > Id = l.Id, > Location1 = l.Location1 > }).ToList(); > LocationDropDownList.DataSource = locationQuery; > LocationDropDownList.DataBind(); > } > > > Now, if I try to retrieve this as a list as shown, an error is raised at the var line: > > " .. Cannot create a constant value of the type 'erhvervslejeModel.erhvervslejeEntities'. > Only primitive types ('like Int32, String og Guid') are supported in this context. .." > > I know I could just do a foreach loop to add the items into the listbox but that is just a bit too primitive. > > Any suggestions? > > /gustav > > > in public partial class erhvervslejeEntities : global::System.Data.Objects.ObjectContext > > public ObjectQuery LocationByOwnerQuery > { > get > { > IQueryable query; > if (_locationFilterOwner != null) > { > query = > from > Location location in this.Location > where > location.Owner.Equals(_locationFilterOwner) > select > location; > } > else > { > query = > from > Location location in this.Location > select > location; > } > return (query as ObjectQuery); > } > } > > *** > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 9 16:41:37 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:41:37 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Let's continue our endevour? I have created a group in MS Live space: http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ would you mind to connect to this group? - it's currently open to everybody. I'd propose to upload and share our SCRUM project files on this group SkyDrive until we will find somewhere in the future a more effective way for distrubuted files' sharing/source control. I tried PopFly (as Gustav did) and I found it's too limiting. I have posted to group our MS SQL 2005 database files: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database and I have also posted simple sample WinForm application, which I wanted to propose to discuss here to find out is proposed simple way of desining WinForm OK for everybody for the Access->NET conversion project. This simple sample form (Shippers) does get data from backend db and it does have all the functionality to add, edit, delete data (except picture data which I left untouched for the time being). Here is this simple project zip-file and screenshot: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/SampleWinFormSolution.jpg To run the project from within VS on your system you will have to change connection string in app.config . When you get connected to the group we can also use the group to have online discussions via MS Live Messenger if that will be appropriate for everybody or just keep offlne discussions as this one I have just started there: http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!129 AFAIS there are many features in MS Live Groups - still to find which ones would be the most useful for us. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:01:25 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > OK, thank you. > > Yes, Gladinet looks interesting - I can use it with SkyDrive from within Windows Explorer. > And it can mount my SkyDrive as logical device e.g. Z: > > It would be useful if Gladinet can somehow mount just public part of SkyDrive for all of us to use it as code vault for source code control... > > -- > Shamil > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 9 17:03:42 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:03:42 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: We agreed to the 16th, didn't we? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 9 17:08:53 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 01:08:53 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, we did, Mike - this is just some preliminary information/"food for thought". -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:03:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > We agreed to the 16th, didn't we? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 10 05:35:44 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:35:44 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team at all, I have extended sample solution with simple MSReportViewer list report - just to keep collecting "food for thought" - nothing facny, tricky or advanced - just aiming to prepare info to "get it done" - MS Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conersion - as qucik as possible when we all get this project work shared... Here is the link to the zipped sample solution as dba-VB MS Live group SlyDrive: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_1.zip?ccr=6990 Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:41:37 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Let's continue our endevour? > > I have created a group in MS Live space: > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ > > would you mind to connect to this group? - it's currently open to everybody. > > I'd propose to upload and share our SCRUM project files on this group SkyDrive until we will find somewhere in the future a more effective way for distrubuted files' sharing/source control. > > I tried PopFly (as Gustav did) and I found it's too limiting. > > I have posted to group our MS SQL 2005 database files: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > and I have also posted simple sample WinForm application, which I wanted to propose to discuss here to find out is proposed simple way of desining WinForm OK for everybody for the Access->NET conversion project. This simple sample form (Shippers) does get data from backend db and it does have all the functionality to add, edit, delete data (except picture data which I left untouched for the time being). > > Here is this simple project zip-file and screenshot: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/SampleWinFormSolution.jpg > > To run the project from within VS on your system you will have to change connection string in app.config . > > When you get connected to the group we can also use the group to have online discussions via MS Live Messenger if that will be appropriate for everybody or just keep offlne discussions as this one I have just started there: > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!129 > > AFAIS there are many features in MS Live Groups - still to find which ones would be the most useful for us. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 10 06:40:29 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:40:29 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, I thought the dba-Vb MS Live group is currently open to everybody with MS Live account to join but it looks like it works somehow differently (despite the fact it's set widely open to the outer world): I have found your request to join and and I have set it as accepted - I think you can now use the dba-vb MS Live group without any limitations. Jack Drawbridge has also joined the dba-VB MS Live group today. Please set you requests to join and I will try to accept them promptly. (Please send me private e-mail to Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com if you wanted to get your request to join MS Live dba-vb processed immediately.) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:57:09 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > You need to approve our applications before we are granted access ...: > > > Someone may have deleted or moved the item, or you may not have permission to view it. > If you have questions about this item, contact the person who created it. > > > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 10-03-2009 11:35 >>> > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 02:21:52 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:21:52 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have added new sample form to the sample solution to demonstrate Parent/Child design technique: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_2.zip?ccr=5258 Once again - nothing very special - just collecting all the necessary "How To" techniques within one sample solution for us to speedily proceed with Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conversion when the conversion project will start next week. Can we shortly discuss the main goal of this first coming project? For me (if I'd have been a ProductOwner/Customer) - the main goal is to get conversion work ASAP (and I (if I'd have been a ProductOwner) currently do not care what MS technologies will be used to communicate with backend - they should just work well enough for converted Northwind application, which I (as ProductOwner and my customers) plan to use as a desktop application. For me (as I'm in the role of SCRUMMaster for this project) - the main goal in this project is to get teamwork organized with as little as possible troubles/impediments for team members (including myself). And I'm not trying to "reach the stars" with this goal on this stage - just to get some satisfactory distributed teamwork environment using mainly feely available tools and technologies ... The roadmap/main goal we're aiming at AFAIU is to use ADO.NET Entity Framework in the future but for the first project we assume that we do not even know that such technology exists... OK? :) Please add your comments/notes for use to have common understanding of this forst project main goal(s)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:35:44 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM Team at all, > > I have extended sample solution with simple MSReportViewer list report - just to keep collecting "food for thought" - nothing facny, tricky or advanced - just aiming to prepare info to "get it done" - MS Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conersion - as qucik as possible when we all get this project work shared... > > Here is the link to the zipped sample solution as dba-VB MS Live group SlyDrive: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_1.zip?ccr=6990 > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:41:37 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > Let's continue our endevour? > > > > I have created a group in MS Live space: > > > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ > > > > would you mind to connect to this group? - it's currently open to everybody. > > > > I'd propose to upload and share our SCRUM project files on this group SkyDrive until we will find somewhere in the future a more effective way for distrubuted files' sharing/source control. > > > > I tried PopFly (as Gustav did) and I found it's too limiting. > > > > I have posted to group our MS SQL 2005 database files: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > and I have also posted simple sample WinForm application, which I wanted to propose to discuss here to find out is proposed simple way of desining WinForm OK for everybody for the Access->NET conversion project. This simple sample form (Shippers) does get data from backend db and it does have all the functionality to add, edit, delete data (except picture data which I left untouched for the time being). > > > > Here is this simple project zip-file and screenshot: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/SampleWinFormSolution.jpg > > > > To run the project from within VS on your system you will have to change connection string in app.config . > > > > When you get connected to the group we can also use the group to have online discussions via MS Live Messenger if that will be appropriate for everybody or just keep offlne discussions as this one I have just started there: > > > > http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!129 > > > > AFAIS there are many features in MS Live Groups - still to find which ones would be the most useful for us. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 02:28:16 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:28:16 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, FYI: I have just found MS published a Rich Upload tooll to MS Live SkyDrive - here it's https://secure.wlxrs.com/7MZ0K!bbIbt-RpyIqB9sIA/etc/RichUploadMsi/en/RichUpload.msi Using this tool you can set the files to upload by dragging-and-dropping them to SkyDrive folder and then clicking button [Upload]: this Rich Upload tool is an ActiveX from MS, which can be hosted within IE (I havent' checked FireFox or Opera etc. - this ActiveX should work with them too I hope). Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 11 04:30:28 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:30:28 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil et al I can see our member list and your postings and files, but If I try to reply to a comment and click Publish, a message pops up: The service is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later. This "later" seems to be "forever". Is it just me? Can any of you publish a reply/comment? /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 10-03-2009 12:40 >>> Hi Gustav, I thought the dba-Vb MS Live group is currently open to everybody with MS Live account to join but it looks like it works somehow differently (despite the fact it's set widely open to the outer world): I have found your request to join and and I have set it as accepted - I think you can now use the dba-vb MS Live group without any limitations. Jack Drawbridge has also joined the dba-VB MS Live group today. Please set you requests to join and I will try to accept them promptly. (Please send me private e-mail to Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com if you wanted to get your request to join MS Live dba-vb processed immediately.) Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 05:01:53 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:01:53 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, I have seen such a message acou ple of times but currently group posting/commenting works OK for me. Please try to do some other actions within group - I checked group options there is no limitations: Group->Options->General All members can edit the calendar All members can add and edit folders and albums Group->Options->E-Mail Group e-mail On Group->Options->Group conversations On I do not see any options about commenting/starting discussions - I'd assume they are available for every group member by deafult. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:30:28 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil et al > > I can see our member list and your postings and files, but If I try to reply to a comment and click Publish, a message pops up: > > The service is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later. > > This "later" seems to be "forever". > Is it just me? Can any of you publish a reply/comment? > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 10-03-2009 12:40 >>> > > Hi Gustav, > > I thought the dba-Vb MS Live group is currently open to everybody with MS Live account to join but it looks like it works somehow differently (despite the fact it's set widely open to the outer world): I have found your request to join and and I have set it as accepted - I think you can now use the dba-vb MS Live group without any limitations. > > Jack Drawbridge has also joined the dba-VB MS Live group today. > > Please set you requests to join and I will try to accept them promptly. (Please send me private e-mail to Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com if you wanted to get your request to join MS Live dba-vb processed immediately.) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 10:27:30 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:27:30 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Scrum Team, I have been watching closely the progress Shamil has been making, and wishing I could join, but fearing I may not be able to contribute much. I also see that there are already enough members in the team. However, if you think at this point there is merit, I would like to volunteer to join, perhaps as the product owner. From the recent content from Shamil, I see that it might useful to split these two roles that Shamil currently has ie, Scrum Master and Product Owner. If I am too late, absolutely no offence, I will continue to lurk, but if you want another member, I am available, let me know what your preference it, thanks Mark 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. > I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their > winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? > The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent > form/report as grids/tables. > > The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of > objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. > > According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to > evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" > evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that > backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any > measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be > eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. > But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry > will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period > of time than the other "ligher" ones... > > This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker > Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". > > Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: > > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker > > We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three > usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of > Product Backlog Entries. > > Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent > as possible. > > Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by > time and space? > Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the > below BackLog if you see some issues with it. > > N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in > preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole > responsibility of ProductOwner.... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. Product Backlog > > Forms > ==== > > 1. Categories > 2. Customer Labels Dialog > 3. Customer Orders > 4. Customer Orders Subform1 > 5. Customer Orders Subform2 > 6. Customer Phone List > 7. Customers > 8. Employees > 9. Main Switchboard > 10. Orders > 11. Orders Subform > 12. Product List > 13. Products > 14. Quarterly Orders > 15. Quarterly Orders Subform > 16. Sales Analysis > 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 > 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 > 19. Sales by Year Dialog > 20. Sales Reports Dialog > 21. Startup > 22. Suppliers > > Reports > ===== > 1. Alphabetical List of Products > 2. Catalog > 3. Catalog Subreport > 4. Customer Labels > 5. Employee Sales by Country > 6. Invoice > 7. Products by Category > 8. Sales by Category > 9. Sales by Category Subreport > 10. Sales by Year > 11. Sales by Year Subreport > 12. Sales Totals by Amount > 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter > 14. Summary of Sales by Year > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 11 14:12:04 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:12:04 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmUgU0NSVU0gUHJvamVjdCBCYWNrbG9n?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark, You're welcome to join http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:27:30 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > Hello Scrum Team, > > I have been watching closely the progress Shamil has been making, and > wishing I could join, but fearing I may not be able to contribute much. > > I also see that there are already enough members in the team. However, if > you think at this point there is merit, I would like to volunteer to join, > perhaps as the product owner. From the recent content from Shamil, I see > that it might useful to split these two roles that Shamil currently has ie, > Scrum Master and Product Owner. > > If I am too late, absolutely no offence, I will continue to lurk, but if you > want another member, I am available, > > let me know what your preference it, > > thanks > > Mark > > > > 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. > > I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their > > winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? > > The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent > > form/report as grids/tables. > > > > The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of > > objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. > > > > According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to > > evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" > > evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that > > backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any > > measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be > > eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. > > But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry > > will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period > > of time than the other "ligher" ones... > > > > This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker > > Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". > > > > Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: > > > > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker > > > > We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three > > usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of > > Product Backlog Entries. > > > > Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent > > as possible. > > > > Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by > > time and space? > > Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the > > below BackLog if you see some issues with it. > > > > N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in > > preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole > > responsibility of ProductOwner.... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. Product Backlog > > > > Forms > > ==== > > > > 1. Categories > > 2. Customer Labels Dialog > > 3. Customer Orders > > 4. Customer Orders Subform1 > > 5. Customer Orders Subform2 > > 6. Customer Phone List > > 7. Customers > > 8. Employees > > 9. Main Switchboard > > 10. Orders > > 11. Orders Subform > > 12. Product List > > 13. Products > > 14. Quarterly Orders > > 15. Quarterly Orders Subform > > 16. Sales Analysis > > 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 > > 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 > > 19. Sales by Year Dialog > > 20. Sales Reports Dialog > > 21. Startup > > 22. Suppliers > > > > Reports > > ===== > > 1. Alphabetical List of Products > > 2. Catalog > > 3. Catalog Subreport > > 4. Customer Labels > > 5. Employee Sales by Country > > 6. Invoice > > 7. Products by Category > > 8. Sales by Category > > 9. Sales by Category Subreport > > 10. Sales by Year > > 11. Sales by Year Subreport > > 12. Sales Totals by Amount > > 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter > > 14. Summary of Sales by Year > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 03:01:31 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:01:31 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, Just added to simple sample application: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... etc. The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:21:52 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have added new sample form to the sample solution to demonstrate Parent/Child design technique: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_2.zip?ccr=5258 > > Once again - nothing very special - just collecting all the necessary "How To" techniques within one sample solution for us to speedily proceed with Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conversion when the conversion project will start next week. > > Can we shortly discuss the main goal of this first coming project? > > For me (if I'd have been a ProductOwner/Customer) - the main goal is to get conversion work ASAP (and I (if I'd have been a ProductOwner) currently do not care what MS technologies will be used to communicate with backend - they should just work well enough for converted Northwind application, which I (as ProductOwner and my customers) plan to use as a desktop application. > > For me (as I'm in the role of SCRUMMaster for this project) - the main goal in this project is to get teamwork organized with as little as possible troubles/impediments for team members (including myself). And I'm not trying to "reach the stars" with this goal on this stage - just to get some satisfactory distributed teamwork environment using mainly feely available tools and technologies ... > > The roadmap/main goal we're aiming at AFAIU is to use ADO.NET Entity Framework in the future but for the first project we assume that we do not even know that such technology exists... > > OK? :) > > Please add your comments/notes for use to have common understanding of this forst project main goal(s)... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 03:13:34 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:13:34 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmUgU0NSVU0gUHJvamVjdCBCYWNrbG9n?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team at all, I have posted "Product Backlog" for the conversion project here: http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!971DC34DC18C0!142 Please comment/add new entries to it: first what we (SCRUM tesm) will have to do next week is to evaluate how much it could take to implement this or that entry from ProductBacklog. Then deliver this information to ProductOwner for him to prioritize the sequence of implementation of features he wanted to get in the context of limited time/resources... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:12:04 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > > Hello Mark, > > You're welcome to join http://dba-vb.groups.live.com/ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Breen > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:27:30 +0000 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > > > Hello Scrum Team, > > > > I have been watching closely the progress Shamil has been making, and > > wishing I could join, but fearing I may not be able to contribute much. > > > > I also see that there are already enough members in the team. However, if > > you think at this point there is merit, I would like to volunteer to join, > > perhaps as the product owner. From the recent content from Shamil, I see > > that it might useful to split these two roles that Shamil currently has ie, > > Scrum Master and Product Owner. > > > > If I am too late, absolutely no offence, I will continue to lurk, but if you > > want another member, I am available, > > > > let me know what your preference it, > > > > thanks > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > 2009/3/4 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > > > Below is the list of forms and reports to develop in Winforms application. > > > I didn't post the list of Data Access Pages - let's do not develop their > > > winforms or ReportViewer control reports equivalents in this project? > > > The subforms/subreports will very probably go togther with their parent > > > form/report as grids/tables. > > > > > > The below list is so called Product Backlog - teh set of > > > objects/functionality customer/ProductOwner wanted to get developed. > > > > > > According to SCRUM/agile and just common sense practices we have to > > > evaluate the "weight" of every entry in the project backlog. This "weight" > > > evaluation will be "just" estimation of relative complexity this or that > > > backlog entry has - and this evaluation/estimation can be expressed in any > > > measuring units kilograms, litres, kilometres, qty of bananas which could be > > > eaten while developing this or that form or report etc. > > > But for customers/ProductOwners will/should be clear that "heavier" entry > > > will usually be more costly and will usually be developed in longer period > > > of time than the other "ligher" ones... > > > > > > This evaluatiuon/estimation "game" is known in SCRUM as "PLanning Poker > > > Game", and it shows to be effective and useful "game". > > > > > > Please read this short article on "Planning poker game" and related issues: > > > > > > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker > > > > > > We have to find a way to "play" this game several times (up to three > > > usually) until we get the common "compromise" view on the "weight" of > > > Product Backlog Entries. > > > > > > Please note that the first evaluation of "weight" shoudl be as independent > > > as possible. > > > > > > Let's fist talk how we can ogranize this "planning game being" separated by > > > time and space? > > > Please do not post any evaluations/estimations here but please correct the > > > below BackLog if you see some issues with it. > > > > > > N.B. Usually nor SCRUM team nor SCRUMMaster do not participate in > > > preparing/prioritizing of ProductBacklog - the latter is the sole > > > responsibility of ProductOwner.... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > P.S. Product Backlog > > > > > > Forms > > > ==== > > > > > > 1. Categories > > > 2. Customer Labels Dialog > > > 3. Customer Orders > > > 4. Customer Orders Subform1 > > > 5. Customer Orders Subform2 > > > 6. Customer Phone List > > > 7. Customers > > > 8. Employees > > > 9. Main Switchboard > > > 10. Orders > > > 11. Orders Subform > > > 12. Product List > > > 13. Products > > > 14. Quarterly Orders > > > 15. Quarterly Orders Subform > > > 16. Sales Analysis > > > 17. Sales Analysis Subform1 > > > 18. Sales Analysis Subform2 > > > 19. Sales by Year Dialog > > > 20. Sales Reports Dialog > > > 21. Startup > > > 22. Suppliers > > > > > > Reports > > > ===== > > > 1. Alphabetical List of Products > > > 2. Catalog > > > 3. Catalog Subreport > > > 4. Customer Labels > > > 5. Employee Sales by Country > > > 6. Invoice > > > 7. Products by Category > > > 8. Sales by Category > > > 9. Sales by Category Subreport > > > 10. Sales by Year > > > 11. Sales by Year Subreport > > > 12. Sales Totals by Amount > > > 13. Summary of Sales by Quarter > > > 14. Summary of Sales by Year > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 12 08:29:19 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. This is a topic for discussion. The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: Customer Id Name etc. Order Id CustomerId etc. OrderLine Id OrderId etc. The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> Hi SCRUM team at all, Just added to simple sample application: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... etc. The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 09:58:47 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:58:47 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, I'm for proposed renaming. Can you do it? The current db backup is uploaded here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Note: - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using them. I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my old habit abandoned while working on this project... While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it as Name - that's OK with me also etc. One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software product - test conversion Northwind application... For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will say "Yes" then do this rehaming. What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff on later steps... I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited resources we have. By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use table name prefix for ID fields)... I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some reasons they could make others informed about or not... As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work "done" and project released as quick as possible... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 12 10:06:23 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:06:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have References: Message-ID: <13BC2143D86F43ADBEB0C846C254625C@Mattys> Yes - but I have a question. Are there more hours in the day over there? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, > > I'm for proposed renaming. > Can you do it? > The current db backup is uploaded here: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Note: > > - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity > fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using > them. > > I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with > one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: > CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of > technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and > therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my > old habit abandoned while working on this project... > > While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of > Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd > not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it > as Name - that's OK with me also etc. > > One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all > know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be > useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to > levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details > then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps > (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... > > I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg > proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software > product - test conversion Northwind application... > > For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS > document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one > exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary > Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like > that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name > suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... > > Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with > their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will > say "Yes" then do this rehaming. > > What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? > I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel > ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to > have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff > on later steps... > > I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming > conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd > probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited > resources we have. > > By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to > "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use > table name prefix for ID fields)... > > I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there > is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate > in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay > "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can > temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some > reasons they could make others informed about or not... > > As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems > with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such > problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. > > .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect > or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the > first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within > this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to > concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work > "done" and project released as quick as possible... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > >> Hi SCRUM team >> >> Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I >> remember many years ago JC ranting about this. >> >> As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes >> in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't >> get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same >> adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards >> >> One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the >> properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the >> db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of >> course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via >> the DataTable. >> Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read >> incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and >> correct. >> >> That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than >> such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned >> quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having >> this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model >> that there is no excuse to not do so. >> >> In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, >> but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the >> fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should >> you feel so. >> >> This is a topic for discussion. >> >> The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: >> >> Customer >> Id >> Name >> etc. >> >> Order >> Id >> CustomerId >> etc. >> >> OrderLine >> Id >> OrderId >> etc. >> >> The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary >> key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of >> course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and >> this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain >> "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket >> science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to >> remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't >> fail. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> Just added to simple sample application: >> >> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip >> >> - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; >> - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; >> - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. >> >> Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got >> some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the >> real conversion project. For example: >> >> 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia >> foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; >> >> 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after >> upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name >> etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have >> them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... >> >> etc. >> >> The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be >> fixed... >> >> There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and >> propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 10:25:21 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:25:21 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: <13BC2143D86F43ADBEB0C846C254625C@Mattys> References: <13BC2143D86F43ADBEB0C846C254625C@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you, Mike, No, there is no such a luxury here - but there should be somebody to bulldoze (break down large pieces) of this project to have it going... Hope you will have this privilegy to bulldoze current project's follow-up projects somewhere in not that far future :) Well, in fact your purchase of VS2008 Prof. is a kind of such a "bulldozing" :) Returning credits now :) Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. In fact I'm having some troubles with parallel work for money because of only 24 hours long days here... -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:06:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Yes - but I have a question. > Are there more hours in the day over there? > > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:58 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > > Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, > > > > I'm for proposed renaming. > > Can you do it? > > The current db backup is uploaded here: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > > > Note: > > > > - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity > > fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using > > them. > > > > I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with > > one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: > > CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of > > technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and > > therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my > > old habit abandoned while working on this project... > > > > While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of > > Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd > > not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it > > as Name - that's OK with me also etc. > > > > One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all > > know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be > > useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to > > levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details > > then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps > > (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... > > > > I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg > > proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software > > product - test conversion Northwind application... > > > > For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS > > document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one > > exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary > > Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like > > that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name > > suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... > > > > Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with > > their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will > > say "Yes" then do this rehaming. > > > > What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? > > I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel > > ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to > > have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff > > on later steps... > > > > I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming > > conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd > > probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited > > resources we have. > > > > By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to > > "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use > > table name prefix for ID fields)... > > > > I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there > > is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate > > in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay > > "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can > > temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some > > reasons they could make others informed about or not... > > > > As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems > > with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such > > problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. > > > > .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect > > or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the > > first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within > > this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to > > concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work > > "done" and project released as quick as possible... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: > > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > >> Hi SCRUM team > >> > >> Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I > >> remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > >> > >> As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes > >> in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't > >> get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same > >> adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > >> > >> One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the > >> properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the > >> db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of > >> course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via > >> the DataTable. > >> Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read > >> incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and > >> correct. > >> > >> That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than > >> such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned > >> quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having > >> this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model > >> that there is no excuse to not do so. > >> > >> In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, > >> but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the > >> fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should > >> you feel so. > >> > >> This is a topic for discussion. > >> > >> The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > >> > >> Customer > >> Id > >> Name > >> etc. > >> > >> Order > >> Id > >> CustomerId > >> etc. > >> > >> OrderLine > >> Id > >> OrderId > >> etc. > >> > >> The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary > >> key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of > >> course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and > >> this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain > >> "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket > >> science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to > >> remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't > >> fail. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >> >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > >> > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> > >> Just added to simple sample application: > >> > >> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > >> > >> - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > >> - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > >> - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > >> > >> Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got > >> some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the > >> real conversion project. For example: > >> > >> 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia > >> foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > >> > >> 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after > >> upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name > >> etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have > >> them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > >> > >> etc. > >> > >> The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be > >> fixed... > >> > >> There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and > >> propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 10:52:02 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:52:02 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, You're very probably aware - if not here is a hint on how to do renaming quickly: - open MS SQL 2005 NorthwindNet 'Main' datamodel diagram and do all renaming directly in it with saving current edits (CTLS+S) once in a while as you're doing renaming... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 12 12:36:57 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:36:57 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil When I state "hysterical" it is for new projects and databases I'm in control of. Of course, for legal setups you often would leave it as is, and I think Northwind is such a case. As for which naming convention we should use, I'm quite flexible if we just try to stick to one. But it is difficult - I can see that some have one for WinForms and another for WebForms, oh well. I could even live with OrderId for the primary key of table Order. However, in code you'll see: someDataTable.OrderId someDataTable.CustomerId Now which is - if any - the PK of someDataTable? If you have: someDataTable.Id someDataTable.CustomerId there is no doubt. Id is the PK and CustomerId is some FK. But this is just my preference, nothing more, nothing less. For tables given names equal to reserved word I believe you can just bracket these like: [Order], at least in Access and SQL Server. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 15:58:47 >>> Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, I'm for proposed renaming. Can you do it? The current db backup is uploaded here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Note: - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using them. I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my old habit abandoned while working on this project... While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it as Name - that's OK with me also etc. One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software product - test conversion Northwind application... For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will say "Yes" then do this rehaming. What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff on later steps... I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited resources we have. By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use table name prefix for ID fields)... I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some reasons they could make others informed about or not... As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work "done" and project released as quick as possible... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 12 12:37:34 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:37:34 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have Message-ID: Hi Shamil That may be true for renaming (haven't tried) but I don't think field properties are written back. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 16:52:02 >>> Hi Gustav, You're very probably aware - if not here is a hint on how to do renaming quickly: - open MS SQL 2005 NorthwindNet 'Main' datamodel diagram and do all renaming directly in it with saving current edits (CTLS+S) once in a while as you're doing renaming... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi SCRUM team > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > This is a topic for discussion. > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > Customer > Id > Name > etc. > > Order > Id > CustomerId > etc. > > OrderLine > Id > OrderId > etc. > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > /gustav From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 12 13:45:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:45:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, > someDataTable.Id > someDataTable.CustomerId > > there is no doubt. Id is the PK and CustomerId is some FK. In the naming convention I'm currently using in NorthwindNet db it would be like that: > Customer.CustomerId > Order.CustomerId and it's clear where it's a primary key and where it's a foreign key. But let's go renaming with your proposed named conventions Customer.Id Order.CustomerId Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:58:07 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > When I state "hysterical" it is for new projects and databases I'm in control of. Of course, for legal setups you often would leave it as is, and I think Northwind is such a case. > > As for which naming convention we should use, I'm quite flexible if we just try to stick to one. But it is difficult - I can see that some have one for WinForms and another for WebForms, oh well. > I could even live with OrderId for the primary key of table Order. However, in code you'll see: > > someDataTable.OrderId > someDataTable.CustomerId > > Now which is - if any - the PK of someDataTable? If you have: > > someDataTable.Id > someDataTable.CustomerId > > there is no doubt. Id is the PK and CustomerId is some FK. > But this is just my preference, nothing more, nothing less. > > For tables given names equal to reserved word I believe you can just bracket these like: [Order], at least in Access and SQL Server. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 15:58:47 >>> > > Hi Gustav and SCRUM team members, > > I'm for proposed renaming. > Can you do it? > The current db backup is uploaded here: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Note: > > - comparing to MS Access db this database does have already Identity fields introduced in all the tables, and all the relationships set using them. > > I do follow similar to proposed database fields naming conventions with one exception - I do name identity fields using table name prefix: CategoryId, ProductId, ShipperId. I use this naming convention because of technical reasons, which seems to me obsolete/conservative now (and therefore I'd beter not mention them here at all) - and I'd try to get my old habit abandoned while working on this project... > > While renaming fields please do not try to be perfect e.g. for the case of Supplier, Customer, Shipper table, which all have CompanyName field I'd not see any problems to leave this field name as it's, if you'll rename it as Name - that's OK with me also etc. > > One more example: there is a table named [Order] in our database: we all know that 'Order' is a keyword in SQL, and because of that it would be useful to have the table named somehow differently but I'd propose to levae it as it's - if we will try to be perfect with such little details then we will have trouble/headache working with real life apps (conversion), which are usually rather imperfect in many areas.... > > I mean that would be a major problem if we will go circles discussinbg proprietary naming conventions instead of working to deliver real software product - test conversion Northwind application... > > For naming conventions in .NET there is somewhere recommended by MS document, which I'd propose to follow (when we will find it :)) - with one exception: I have found that many .NET developers still use Hungary Notation (three-four letter prefix) to name controls - I'd use it like that - but if our SCRUM team members will prefer to use control name suffix (as recommended by MS) - I can use it like that also... > > Gustav, please wait for Mike, Doug and John to appear here today with their opinion on the proposed DB namimng convention - and when they will say "Yes" then do this rehaming. > > What to do if not all of them will participate in this discussion today? I'd go with renaming - we have to act quickly - and having db datamodel ready before we start programming is an important step for everybody to have what to do on the first day, and not go circles renaming "Done" stuff on later steps... > > I must note that my current "intervention" with my opinion of naming conventions is not SCRUMMaster responsibility at all but in our case I'd probably have to play SCRUMMaster/Team member role because of limited resources we have. > > By my current "intervention" I also wanted to show an example how to "abandon old habits" when working in a SCRUM team (I mean my habit to use table name prefix for ID fields)... > > I will try to minimize such "interventions" in the future - in fact there is a notion of "pigs" and "chickens" in a SCRUM team: "pigs" participate in discussions and evaluations, and "chickens" don't. I'd try to stay "chicken" most of the time. Everybody of the SCRUM team members can temporarily (for a short time) take the role of "chicken" because of some reasons they could make others informed about or not... > > As for datasets as the source of forms's data - I have not seen problems with them in VS2008 while preparing samples - please if you get such problems write how to reproduce them using published samples. > > .NET datasets (as in the currently published samples) could be not perfect or even satisfactory in large scale interprise applications but for the first project (and assuming we are making just simple desktop app within this project) - the datasets could be all we need as they allow to concentrate main activity on forms/reports design work, and get work "done" and project released as quick as possible... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi SCRUM team > > > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > > > This is a topic for discussion. > > > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > > > Customer > > Id > > Name > > etc. > > > > Order > > Id > > CustomerId > > etc. > > > > OrderLine > > Id > > OrderId > > etc. > > > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 09:01:31 >>> > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > Just added to simple sample application: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > > > etc. > > > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 13 02:47:02 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:47:02 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2FtcGxlIC5ORVQgRm9ybXMvUmVwb3J0cyBEZXNpZ24g?= =?koi8-r?b?VGVjaG5pcXVlcyAtIFdhczogUmU6IFNjcnVtICYgQyMgLSBWUyB2?= =?koi8-r?b?ZXJzaW9ucyB3ZSBoYXZl?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have just added and posted some more samples here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_4.zip?ccr=1869 - Calculated dataSet tables's columns (Customer.CustomerCodeAndName column in NorthWindDataModelDataSet) - ComboBoxes' binding in grid - ShipVia and CustomerId in ShipperOrdersForm's grid Source: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.data.datacolumn.expression.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:01:31 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > Just added to simple sample application: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_3.zip > > - NorthWindDataModelDataSet - dataset having the whole datamodel; > - ShipperOrdersForm - Parent/Child; > - CategoryProductsForm - Parent/Child, Database Image Binding. > > Please note the above sample *does* intentionally/occasionally have got some issues/inconsistencies, which should be talked through/fixed in the real conversion project. For example: > > 1. Shipper table has ShipperId id field and Order table has ShipVia foreign key field - the latter should be better named ShipperID; > > 2. Relationships in MS SQL 2005 database are not renamed manually after upsizing - thus when designing datasets relations get Order_FK1 name etc. - relations should be better renamed on the database level to have them consistently named in datasets and referred in winforms' binding... > > etc. > > The above issues are not critical of course but desirable(?) to be fixed... > > There could be other non-critical/critical issues - please note them and propose the way(s) to solve/workaround them... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:21:52 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have added new sample form to the sample solution to demonstrate Parent/Child design technique: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Samples/SimpleWinForm/NorthWindWinFormSample%7C_2.zip?ccr=5258 > > > > Once again - nothing very special - just collecting all the necessary "How To" techniques within one sample solution for us to speedily proceed with Access NorthWind to .NET WinForms conversion when the conversion project will start next week. > > > > Can we shortly discuss the main goal of this first coming project? > > > > For me (if I'd have been a ProductOwner/Customer) - the main goal is to get conversion work ASAP (and I (if I'd have been a ProductOwner) currently do not care what MS technologies will be used to communicate with backend - they should just work well enough for converted Northwind application, which I (as ProductOwner and my customers) plan to use as a desktop application. > > > > For me (as I'm in the role of SCRUMMaster for this project) - the main goal in this project is to get teamwork organized with as little as possible troubles/impediments for team members (including myself). And I'm not trying to "reach the stars" with this goal on this stage - just to get some satisfactory distributed teamwork environment using mainly feely available tools and technologies ... > > > > The roadmap/main goal we're aiming at AFAIU is to use ADO.NET Entity Framework in the future but for the first project we assume that we do not even know that such technology exists... > > > > OK? :) > > > > Please add your comments/notes for use to have common understanding of this forst project main goal(s)... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Mar 14 09:41:57 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:41:57 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U2NydW0gJiBDIyAtIFZTIHZlcnNpb25zIHdlIGhhdmU=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have made sample database tables' columns renaming according to Gustav proposals - new version of db backup is here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database/NorthWindNET%7C_DB%7C_BackUp%7C_20090314.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:37:34 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > Hi Shamil > > That may be true for renaming (haven't tried) but I don't think field properties are written back. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 12-03-2009 16:52:02 >>> > Hi Gustav, > > You're very probably aware - if not here is a hint on how to do renaming quickly: > > - open MS SQL 2005 NorthwindNet 'Main' datamodel diagram and do all renaming directly in it with saving current edits (CTLS+S) once in a while as you're doing renaming... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:29:19 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Scrum & C# - VS versions we have > > > Hi SCRUM team > > > > Yes, maybe the relational model of this db can cause us some headache - I remember many years ago JC ranting about this. > > > > As for the model, I've found too, that it is preferable to make changes in the database first. However, the model in VS - the DataTables - don't get updated automatically but it is quite easy to make the same adjustments in the DataTable(Adapter)s afterwards > > > > One tricky issue I've seen is, that for fields of AutoNumber, the properties of these sometimes are not read correctly. This means that the db can have a seed of 1 while the model in VS has a seed of 0. This, of course, creates strange errors as soon as you start adding records via the DataTable. > > Also, sometimes, the property "Allow Null values" for fields are read incorrectly. But, again, this is quite easy and fast to check and correct. > > > > That said, I haven't worked with the DataTables for any other tables than such having an Id of AutoNumber as the primary key. In fact, I've turned quite "hysterical" about this because the advantage of _always_ having this Id key is so big in general and indeed when you work with the model that there is no excuse to not do so. > > > > In my latest app I had full control over the table schema so no problem, but for a given schema like Northwind, you have the option to name the fields in model otherwise than the related fields in the database, should you feel so. > > > > This is a topic for discussion. > > > > The naming I use is extremely simple and not invented by me: > > > > Customer > > Id > > Name > > etc. > > > > Order > > Id > > CustomerId > > etc. > > > > OrderLine > > Id > > OrderId > > etc. > > > > The trick is, I've learned, that you _always_ know that Id is the primary key of the table and any other xxxxId is a foreign key, while - of course - xxxx is _always_ referring to the primary key of table xxxx and this field is named Id. Any other field must not be named to contain "Id", use anything else like Num, No, Key, Code or the like. No rocket science, I know, but I've seen some fancy naming conventions hard to remember and/or to grasp ... this method is so simple that you can't fail. > > > > /gustav > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Mar 14 13:21:13 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team, Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). Please ask your questions. Please make your estimations. You can download workbook with BackLog items here: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 or here: http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. FORMS ===== 1 Categories 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 3 Customer Orders 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 5 Customer Orders Subform2 6 Customer Phone List 7 Customers => 2 8 Employees => 5 9 Main Switchboard 10 Orders 11 Orders Subform => 1 12 Product List 13 Products 14 Quarterly Orders 15 Quarterly Orders Subform 16 Sales Analysis => ??? 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? 19 Sales by Year Dialog 20 Sales Reports Dialog 21 Startup 22 Suppliers REPORTS ======= 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 2 Catalog 3 Catalog Subreport 4 Customer Labels 5 Employee Sales by Country 6 Invoice => 5 7 Products by Category 8 Sales by Category 9 Sales by Category Subreport 10 Sales by Year 11 Sales by Year Subreport 12 Sales Totals by Amount 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter 14 Summary of Sales by Year From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 14:13:23 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:13:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all Message-ID: <29f585dd0903141213w2f1448ccq4ff1f866e8ae527a@mail.gmail.com> After months of toying with various languages like Python and Ruby (which are lots of fun but I don't see any job postings for them) I have decided that it's time to pinch my nose and jump into the C# pool. How's the water? A. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Mar 14 14:33:32 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:33:32 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?SGVsbG8gYWxs?= In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0903141213w2f1448ccq4ff1f866e8ae527a@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0903141213w2f1448ccq4ff1f866e8ae527a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The C# sun is rising and is starting to shine full power here at dba-VB, and the water is getting hot, Arthur, welcome to the club! :) -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 14 14:44:49 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:44:49 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all Message-ID: Hi Arthur Yes, it is perfect. Jump! /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 14-03-2009 20:13 >>> After months of toying with various languages like Python and Ruby (which are lots of fun but I don't see any job postings for them) I have decided that it's time to pinch my nose and jump into the C# pool. How's the water? A. From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat Mar 14 18:45:34 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:45:34 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all References: Message-ID: All ...we got to get Bryan to change the list name to dba-dotnet :) ...ain't no .net, much less C# gurus even gonna look at a vb list :( ...and no slight meant to Shamil or Gustav, but we could use a couple :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Gustav Brock" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:44 PM To: Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Hello all > Hi Arthur > > Yes, it is perfect. Jump! > > /gustav > >>>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 14-03-2009 20:13 >>> > After months of toying with various languages like Python and Ruby (which > are lots of fun but I don't see any job postings for them) I have decided > that it's time to pinch my nose and jump into the C# pool. How's the > water? > > A. > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 20:56:43 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:56:43 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29f585dd0903141856n7639d302gc9f44ca36f9a7584@mail.gmail.com> Cannonballllllllll... On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > Yes, it is perfect. Jump! > > /gustav > From Gustav at cactus.dk Sun Mar 15 03:17:10 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:17:10 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello all Message-ID: Hi William That is a good idea. /gustav >>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 15-03-2009 00:45 >>> ...we got to get Bryan to change the list name to dba-dotnet :) From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 16 11:15:09 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. I have made mine over weekend. Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Hi SCRUM Team, > > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: > > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. > > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > Please ask your questions. > Please make your estimations. > > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > or here: > > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. > > > FORMS > ===== > > 1 Categories > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > 3 Customer Orders > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > 6 Customer Phone List > 7 Customers => 2 > 8 Employees => 5 > 9 Main Switchboard > 10 Orders > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > 12 Product List > 13 Products > 14 Quarterly Orders > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > 21 Startup > 22 Suppliers > > REPORTS > ======= > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > 2 Catalog > 3 Catalog Subreport > 4 Customer Labels > 5 Employee Sales by Country > 6 Invoice => 5 > 7 Products by Category > 8 Sales by Category > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > 10 Sales by Year > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 16 17:37:35 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 01:37:35 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RllJOiBHb3QgQ1NNIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIHRvZGF5Li4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and other projects. Thank you. -- Shamil From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 02:03:32 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 07:03:32 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well done Shamil. Max On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM > endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area ( > http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 17 02:16:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:16:58 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... References: Message-ID: <6645DEA9757640B18593B4A0D354A8A1@Mattys> My sentiments exactly - Congratulations. And gratitude for sharing your successes with all as you do. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:03 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > Well done Shamil. > > Max > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil > wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf >> >> Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM >> endevour... >> >> I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area ( >> http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it >> will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion >> and >> other projects. >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marklbreen at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 06:08:14 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:08:14 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Shamil, Congratulations to you on this, I hope it is profitable for you in next few years, Mark 2009/3/16 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM > endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area ( > http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From drawbridgej at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 17 08:35:27 2009 From: drawbridgej at sympatico.ca (Jack and Pat) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us. ???????????? (hope this is close) Jack -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... Hi All, Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and other projects. Thank you. -- Shamil _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 09:07:01 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:07:01 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] test Message-ID: <49BFAE85.5090504@gmail.com> testing if I am subscribed. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 09:45:45 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:45:45 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?dGVzdA==?= In-Reply-To: <49BFAE85.5090504@gmail.com> References: <49BFAE85.5090504@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi John, Yes, you're. Welcome to dba-VB! :) Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:02:24 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:24 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > I have made mine over weekend. > > Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: > > > > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. > > > > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > > > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > > > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > > > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > > > Please ask your questions. > > Please make your estimations. > > > > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > > > or here: > > > > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. > > > > > > FORMS > > ===== > > > > 1 Categories > > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > 3 Customer Orders > > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > 6 Customer Phone List > > 7 Customers => 2 > > 8 Employees => 5 > > 9 Main Switchboard > > 10 Orders > > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > 12 Product List > > 13 Products > > 14 Quarterly Orders > > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > 21 Startup > > 22 Suppliers > > > > REPORTS > > ======= > > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > 2 Catalog > > 3 Catalog Subreport > > 4 Customer Labels > > 5 Employee Sales by Country > > 6 Invoice => 5 > > 7 Products by Category > > 8 Sales by Category > > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > 10 Sales by Year > > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:02:54 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:54 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > I have made mine over weekend. > > Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: > > > > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. > > > > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > > > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > > > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > > > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > > > Please ask your questions. > > Please make your estimations. > > > > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > > > or here: > > > > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. > > > > > > FORMS > > ===== > > > > 1 Categories > > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > 3 Customer Orders > > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > 6 Customer Phone List > > 7 Customers => 2 > > 8 Employees => 5 > > 9 Main Switchboard > > 10 Orders > > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > 12 Product List > > 13 Products > > 14 Quarterly Orders > > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > 21 Startup > > 22 Suppliers > > > > REPORTS > > ======= > > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > 2 Catalog > > 3 Catalog Subreport > > 4 Customer Labels > > 5 Employee Sales by Country > > 6 Invoice => 5 > > 7 Products by Category > > 8 Sales by Category > > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > 10 Sales by Year > > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:15:16 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:15:16 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RllJOiBHb3QgQ1NNIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIHRvZGF5Li4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you everybody for your congratulations! I will try to keep facilitating "SCRUM values" here as far as I have got them from my CSM course and as I currently understand them - there should be mistakes and inconsistencies very probably in this my facilitating as I'm only beginning my SCRUMMaster activity for broad audience but I do expect there should be much more useful and interesting results demonstrated by all the involved parties, especially by SCRUM team members... Here they are (in the sequence they joined the team): - Gustav Brock, - Mike Mattys, - Doug Murphy and - John Colby And our ProductOwner/StakeHolder: - Mark Breen Thank you. :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Jack and Pat" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of > us. > > ???????????? (hope this is close) > > Jack > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area > (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 17 12:15:15 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:15:15 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog Planning Game... Message-ID: Hi Shamil That is perfectly OK for me. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 18:02 >>> Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:15:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:15:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RllJOiBHb3QgQ1NNIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIHRvZGF5Li4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you everybody for your congratulations! I will try to keep facilitating "SCRUM values" here as far as I have got them from my CSM course and as I currently understand them - there should be mistakes and inconsistencies very probably in this my facilitating as I'm only beginning my SCRUMMaster activity for broad audience but I do expect there should be much more useful and interesting results demonstrated by all the involved parties, especially by SCRUM team members... Here they are (in the sequence they joined the team): - Gustav Brock, - Mike Mattys, - Doug Murphy and - John Colby And our ProductOwner/StakeHolder: - Mark Breen Thank you. :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Jack and Pat" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of > us. > > ???????????? (hope this is close) > > Jack > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > > Hi All, > > Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf > > Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... > > I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area > (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it > will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and > other projects. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 12:17:37 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:17:37 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry for posting the same message twice - that was my Internet -email agent issue. -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:54 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. > < snip> From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 12:23:16 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BFDC84.6020108@gmail.com> That sounds good to me also. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have time to make his estimations. > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any NorthWind .NET form or report... > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our estimations here - is that OK with you? > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there is some work to do in coordinating them. > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >> I have made mine over weekend. >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan implementation/release... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> To: dba-VB >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... >> >> >>> Hi SCRUM Team, >>> >>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following values: >>> >>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >>> >>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on the next estimation round. >>> >>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make first round estimantions as independent as possible - http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >>> >>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) >>> >>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >>> >>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >>> >>> Please ask your questions. >>> Please make your estimations. >>> >>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >>> >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >>> >>> or here: >>> >>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >>> >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> >>> P.S. >>> >>> >>> FORMS >>> ===== >>> >>> 1 Categories >>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >>> 3 Customer Orders >>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >>> 6 Customer Phone List >>> 7 Customers => 2 >>> 8 Employees => 5 >>> 9 Main Switchboard >>> 10 Orders >>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 >>> 12 Product List >>> 13 Products >>> 14 Quarterly Orders >>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog >>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog >>> 21 Startup >>> 22 Suppliers >>> >>> REPORTS >>> ======= >>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >>> 2 Catalog >>> 3 Catalog Subreport >>> 4 Customer Labels >>> 5 Employee Sales by Country >>> 6 Invoice => 5 >>> 7 Products by Category >>> 8 Sales by Category >>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport >>> 10 Sales by Year >>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport >>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount >>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-VB mailing list >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 12:24:14 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:24:14 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BFDCBE.3010203@gmail.com> I was wondering... I have a new web site and my wife is informing me of emails she receives twice. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Sorry for posting the same message twice - that was my Internet -email agent issue. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:02:54 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and myself. >> >> > < snip> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 12:26:34 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:26:34 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BFDD4A.10903@gmail.com> Congratulations Shamil on the certification! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you everybody for your congratulations! > > I will try to keep facilitating "SCRUM values" here as far as I have got them from my CSM course and as I currently understand them - there should be mistakes and inconsistencies very probably in this my facilitating as I'm only beginning my SCRUMMaster activity for broad audience but I do expect there should be much more useful and interesting results demonstrated by all the involved parties, especially by SCRUM team members... > > Here they are (in the sequence they joined the team): > > - Gustav Brock, > - Mike Mattys, > - Doug Murphy and > - John Colby > > And our ProductOwner/StakeHolder: > > - Mark Breen > > Thank you. :) > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Jack and Pat" > To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:35:27 -0500 > Subject: RE: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... > > >> Well done Shamil! And thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of >> us. >> >> ???????????? (hope this is close) >> >> Jack >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov >> Shamil >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:38 PM >> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. >> Subject: [dba-VB] FYI: Got CSM Certificate today... >> >> Hi All, >> >> Just wanted to inform you that I have got my CSM certificate today: >> >> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/SS_CSM.pdf >> >> Of course this is just a paper to mark the beginning of my SCRUM endevour... >> >> I have also got access to the SCRUM Alliance members area >> (http://www.scrumalliance.org/pages/scrum_alliance_members) - hopefully it >> will give some valuable information to use in our NorthWind conversion and >> other projects. >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 17 12:57:12 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... References: Message-ID: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would see me would be at the bottom of the pool! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and > myself. > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have > time to make his estimations. > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > estimations here - is that OK with you? > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there > is some work to do in coordinating them. > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >> I have made mine over weekend. >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan >> implementation/release... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> To: dba-VB >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> > >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following >> > values: >> > >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >> > >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on >> > the next estimation round. >> > >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >> > >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more >> > definitive estimation for this item.) >> > >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >> > >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >> > >> > Please ask your questions. >> > Please make your estimations. >> > >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >> > >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >> > >> > or here: >> > >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >> > >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > P.S. >> > >> > >> > FORMS >> > ===== >> > >> > 1 Categories >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >> > 3 Customer Orders >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >> > 6 Customer Phone List >> > 7 Customers => 2 >> > 8 Employees => 5 >> > 9 Main Switchboard >> > 10 Orders >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 >> > 12 Product List >> > 13 Products >> > 14 Quarterly Orders >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog >> > 21 Startup >> > 22 Suppliers >> > >> > REPORTS >> > ======= >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >> > 2 Catalog >> > 3 Catalog Subreport >> > 4 Customer Labels >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country >> > 6 Invoice => 5 >> > 7 Products by Category >> > 8 Sales by Category >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport >> > 10 Sales by Year >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 15:53:08 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:53:08 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> References: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you SCRUM team, let's wait for Doug estimatiion to arrive. Meanwhile shoudlnt' we try to select distributed source control system? - Here are two candidates: 1. BAZAAR http://bazaar-vcs.org/ and https://launchpad.net/ and 2. CODEPLEX http://www.codeplex.com/ I must say I didn't use nor the first nor the second. Shouldn't we try BAZAAR via Launchpad first of all? Bazaar/Lanchpad seems to be a really lightweight yet powerful source control system. Shouldn't we just create a project in Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/) and to put some files in it and just try to check-out/edit/check-in them distributed way and see what happens - just plain test text files? Please propose other options to consider for distributed source control. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. > > I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would > see me would be at the bottom of the pool! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and > > myself. > > > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me he > > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have > > time to make his estimations. > > > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, > > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project > > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking > > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced > > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and > > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some > > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > > > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in this > > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done we > > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > > estimations here - is that OK with you? > > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore there > > is some work to do in coordinating them. > > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > >> > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> > >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > >> I have made mine over weekend. > >> > >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today > >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of > >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to > >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan > >> implementation/release... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> To: dba-VB > >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > >> > >> > Hi SCRUM Team, > >> > > >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > >> > values: > >> > > >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > >> > > >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT gmail.com) > >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them on > >> > the next estimation round. > >> > > >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make > >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - > >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > >> > > >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - just > >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear > >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's a > >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in .NET > >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time this > >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more > >> > definitive estimation for this item.) > >> > > >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > >> > > >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks like > >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > >> > > >> > Please ask your questions. > >> > Please make your estimations. > >> > > >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > >> > > >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > >> > > >> > or here: > >> > > >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > >> > > >> > > >> > Thank you. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Shamil > >> > > >> > P.S. > >> > > >> > > >> > FORMS > >> > ===== > >> > > >> > 1 Categories > >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > >> > 3 Customer Orders > >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > >> > 6 Customer Phone List > >> > 7 Customers => 2 > >> > 8 Employees => 5 > >> > 9 Main Switchboard > >> > 10 Orders > >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > >> > 12 Product List > >> > 13 Products > >> > 14 Quarterly Orders > >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > >> > 21 Startup > >> > 22 Suppliers > >> > > >> > REPORTS > >> > ======= > >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > >> > 2 Catalog > >> > 3 Catalog Subreport > >> > 4 Customer Labels > >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country > >> > 6 Invoice => 5 > >> > 7 Products by Category > >> > 8 Sales by Category > >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > >> > 10 Sales by Year > >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 17 16:01:46 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... References: <857EA2B2426C49B9A81497CE362E25D2@Mattys> Message-ID: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. I'll have to download it and see if it runs. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > Thank you SCRUM team, let's wait for Doug estimatiion to arrive. > > Meanwhile shoudlnt' we try to select distributed source control system? - > Here are two candidates: > > 1. BAZAAR > > http://bazaar-vcs.org/ and https://launchpad.net/ > > and > > 2. CODEPLEX > > http://www.codeplex.com/ > > I must say I didn't use nor the first nor the second. > > Shouldn't we try BAZAAR via Launchpad first of all? Bazaar/Lanchpad seems > to be a really lightweight yet powerful source control system. > > Shouldn't we just create a project in Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/) > and to put some files in it and just try to check-out/edit/check-in them > distributed way and see what happens - just plain test text files? > > Please propose other options to consider for distributed source control. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > >> I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. >> >> I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would >> see me would be at the bottom of the pool! >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >> Game... >> >> >> > >> > Hi SCRUM team at all, >> > >> > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and >> > myself. >> > >> > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me >> > he >> > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have >> > time to make his estimations. >> > >> > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, >> > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project >> > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking >> > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced >> > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and >> > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some >> > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). >> > >> > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting >> > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members >> > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any >> > NorthWind .NET form or report... >> > >> > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in >> > this >> > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done >> > we >> > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... >> > >> > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our >> > estimations here - is that OK with you? >> > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore >> > there >> > is some work to do in coordinating them. >> > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial >> > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week >> > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but >> > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related >> > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> > issues." >> > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >> > Game... >> > >> >> >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, >> >> >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >> >> I have made mine over weekend. >> >> >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today >> >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of >> >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to >> >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan >> >> implementation/release... >> >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Shamil >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >> >> To: dba-VB >> >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >> >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >> >> Game... >> >> >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> >> > >> >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product >> >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following >> >> > values: >> >> > >> >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >> >> > >> >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT >> >> > gmail.com) >> >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them >> >> > on >> >> > the next estimation round. >> >> > >> >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make >> >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - >> >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >> >> > >> >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - >> >> > just >> >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear >> >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's >> >> > a >> >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in >> >> > .NET >> >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time >> >> > this >> >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more >> >> > definitive estimation for this item.) >> >> > >> >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in >> >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >> >> > >> >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks >> >> > like >> >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >> >> > >> >> > Please ask your questions. >> >> > Please make your estimations. >> >> > >> >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >> >> > >> >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >> >> > >> >> > or here: >> >> > >> >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html >> >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Thank you. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Shamil >> >> > >> >> > P.S. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > FORMS >> >> > ===== >> >> > >> >> > 1 Categories >> >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >> >> > 3 Customer Orders >> >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >> >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >> >> > 6 Customer Phone List >> >> > 7 Customers => 2 >> >> > 8 Employees => 5 >> >> > 9 Main Switchboard >> >> > 10 Orders >> >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 >> >> > 12 Product List >> >> > 13 Products >> >> > 14 Quarterly Orders >> >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >> >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >> >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >> >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >> >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog >> >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog >> >> > 21 Startup >> >> > 22 Suppliers >> >> > >> >> > REPORTS >> >> > ======= >> >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >> >> > 2 Catalog >> >> > 3 Catalog Subreport >> >> > 4 Customer Labels >> >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country >> >> > 6 Invoice => 5 >> >> > 7 Products by Category >> >> > 8 Sales by Category >> >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport >> >> > 10 Sales by Year >> >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport >> >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount >> >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >> >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > dba-VB mailing list >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> dba-VB mailing list >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 17 17:19:08 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 01:19:08 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> References: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike and SCRUM team, If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files in it to share... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:53 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > > > > Thank you SCRUM team, let's wait for Doug estimatiion to arrive. > > > > Meanwhile shoudlnt' we try to select distributed source control system? - > > Here are two candidates: > > > > 1. BAZAAR > > > > http://bazaar-vcs.org/ and https://launchpad.net/ > > > > and > > > > 2. CODEPLEX > > > > http://www.codeplex.com/ > > > > I must say I didn't use nor the first nor the second. > > > > Shouldn't we try BAZAAR via Launchpad first of all? Bazaar/Lanchpad seems > > to be a really lightweight yet powerful source control system. > > > > Shouldn't we just create a project in Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/) > > and to put some files in it and just try to check-out/edit/check-in them > > distributed way and see what happens - just plain test text files? > > > > Please propose other options to consider for distributed source control. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:57:12 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > >> I agree also - and thanks for thinking it through. > >> > >> I was beginning to think the only place cannonballers would > >> see me would be at the bottom of the pool! > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:02 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > >> Game... > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> > > >> > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John and > >> > myself. > >> > > >> > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed me > >> > he > >> > has important private events today, and it may happen he will not have > >> > time to make his estimations. > >> > > >> > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to come, > >> > and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this project > >> > developed in context when we have different .NET experience but taking > >> > into account that most of the work to do is simple for experienced > >> > developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly design and > >> > almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as shown in some > >> > samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's SkyDrive). > >> > > >> > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > >> > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > >> > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > >> > NorthWind .NET form or report... > >> > > >> > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application in > >> > this > >> > project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that done > >> > we > >> > can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > >> > > >> > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > >> > estimations here - is that OK with you? > >> > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore > >> > there > >> > is some work to do in coordinating them. > >> > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > >> > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > >> > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > >> > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > >> > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > >> > > >> > Thank you. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Shamil > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > >> > issues." > >> > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > >> > Game... > >> > > >> >> > >> >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > >> >> > >> >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > >> >> I have made mine over weekend. > >> >> > >> >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come today > >> >> then I will immediately post all of them here to start coordination of > >> >> our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with them, and to > >> >> present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to plan > >> >> implementation/release... > >> >> > >> >> Thank you. > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Shamil > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> >> To: dba-VB > >> >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > >> >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > >> >> Game... > >> >> > >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, > >> >> > > >> >> > Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > >> >> > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > >> >> > values: > >> >> > > >> >> > 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > >> >> > > >> >> > Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT > >> >> > gmail.com) > >> >> > to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to use them > >> >> > on > >> >> > the next estimation round. > >> >> > > >> >> > Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to make > >> >> > first round estimantions as independent as possible - > >> >> > http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > >> >> > > >> >> > Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - > >> >> > just > >> >> > as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's unclear > >> >> > how much time it will take to make that item implemented (Here it's > >> >> > a > >> >> > pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct correspondence in > >> >> > .NET > >> >> > WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do here and how much time > >> >> > this > >> >> > work will take. If you know the answer - please make your more > >> >> > definitive estimation for this item.) > >> >> > > >> >> > I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > >> >> > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > >> >> > > >> >> > I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks > >> >> > like > >> >> > we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > >> >> > > >> >> > Please ask your questions. > >> >> > Please make your estimations. > >> >> > > >> >> > You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > >> >> > > >> >> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > >> >> > > >> >> > or here: > >> >> > > >> >> > http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > >> >> > (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=SCRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Thank you. > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > Shamil > >> >> > > >> >> > P.S. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > FORMS > >> >> > ===== > >> >> > > >> >> > 1 Categories > >> >> > 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > >> >> > 3 Customer Orders > >> >> > 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > >> >> > 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > >> >> > 6 Customer Phone List > >> >> > 7 Customers => 2 > >> >> > 8 Employees => 5 > >> >> > 9 Main Switchboard > >> >> > 10 Orders > >> >> > 11 Orders Subform => 1 > >> >> > 12 Product List > >> >> > 13 Products > >> >> > 14 Quarterly Orders > >> >> > 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > >> >> > 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > >> >> > 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > >> >> > 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > >> >> > 19 Sales by Year Dialog > >> >> > 20 Sales Reports Dialog > >> >> > 21 Startup > >> >> > 22 Suppliers > >> >> > > >> >> > REPORTS > >> >> > ======= > >> >> > 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > >> >> > 2 Catalog > >> >> > 3 Catalog Subreport > >> >> > 4 Customer Labels > >> >> > 5 Employee Sales by Country > >> >> > 6 Invoice => 5 > >> >> > 7 Products by Category > >> >> > 8 Sales by Category > >> >> > 9 Sales by Category Subreport > >> >> > 10 Sales by Year > >> >> > 11 Sales by Year Subreport > >> >> > 12 Sales Totals by Amount > >> >> > 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > >> >> > 14 Summary of Sales by Year > >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> dba-VB mailing list > >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 06:43:20 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:43:20 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Message-ID: Hello Shamil, As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get access to the code on that project. If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, I believe that it would be the best choice. FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work well for all team members. My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. Mark 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all > need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can > be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities > simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), > and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download > and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python > interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and > setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well > organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > in it to share... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > > I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 06:52:54 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:52:54 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <02C5C5220208494B92A05C0B74AB1F22@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C0E096.7030601@gmail.com> Not to mention the fact that many of us don't use source control at all on a daily basis. It is another thing to come up to speed on. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Shamil, > As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues > with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the > project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became > a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was > only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get > access to the code on that project. > > If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, > I believe that it would be the best choice. > > FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on > our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, > Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of > course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough > with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some > routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small > solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work > well for all team members. > > My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it > becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever > architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members > so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > > > >> Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> >> If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all >> need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can >> be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities >> simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), >> and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download >> and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... >> >> Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python >> interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and >> setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? >> >> Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well >> organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files >> in it to share... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Mike Mattys" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... >> >> >>> Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. >>> I'll have to download it and see if it runs. >>> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 18 06:57:42 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:57:42 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog Planning Game... Message-ID: Hi Shamil I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to require some effort to set up and test. CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> Hi Mike and SCRUM team, If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files in it to share... Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 07:49:04 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:49:04 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark, Yes, source code control is important and very desirable but when resources are limited, and especially when there are many other tasks to solve to release final product then I suppose that automated source code control can be postponed. I personaly have experience of working in distributed team on several projects withoput automated source control - and that worked OK, and all code was available when needed etc.... The first project is small, and all code coordination can be done manually without that much overhead I suppose... Yes, this was my initiative yesterday to start talking on SCCS expecting that maybe somebody will come with ready to use solution/experience but my current proposal (because we do not have such experience as a team) is to postpone source code control for now, and to introduce it if we will make the project quicker than we will plan to do it. For now for this small project we can just split it into separate parts (source files within one solution) and have somebody to play the role of SCCS manually. In my opinion good candidates for distributed SCCS seems to be: CodePlex (http://www.codeplex.com/) and Bazaar (http://bazaar-vcs.org/ , https://launchpad.net/) Here is how CodePlex can be used: http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home still I'd postpone trying to do introduce SCCS in the very beginning of our project if only somebody of the team wouldn't want to invest their free time into that trial and to make a short instruction for everybody how to have our project seemslessly published and kept on CodePlex... Mark, I'm playing the role of SCRUMMaster and what I'm doing now (commenting here the issue of SCCS) is in fact shouldn't be my responsibility as I shoudln't influence team members solution to use or not to use SCCS... ...but you're a ProductOwner and according to this role asking to use SCCS by the team is also unusual practice - ProductOwner cares about product features and products releases and all the rest is not interesting to the ProductOwner usually, even "forbidden" to mention accoridng to SCRUM process as far as I understand it... But that's OK I suppose you and myself are currently talking about SCCS because here we currently have to have a kind of mixture of roles but when proposing/telling something we have to be very constructive and goal oriented to not fall into lengthy discussions on "best practices" etc. without developing and delivering real software customers are waiting for - if we can live without SCCS for some time let it be so? I think that our main customers are Access-D(dba-VB) memebers and you as a ProductOwner - would you like to see us (SCRUMMaster and team members) building robust SCCS and spending most of the time on that activity or you wanted us to have NorthWind.NET implemented for you to play with an see how it is done? Recap: - let's postpone SCCS usage in our environment if only somebody (Mark Breen?) will not come with ready to use and free solution for every team member to start using in fifteen minutes/half-an hour? - let's keep collecting info on available SCCS options to try them in the end of our projects if we will have enough time left. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:43:20 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Hello Shamil, > As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues > with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the > project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became > a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was > only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get > access to the code on that project. > > If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, > I believe that it would be the best choice. > > FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on > our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, > Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of > course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough > with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some > routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small > solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work > well for all team members. > > My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it > becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever > architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members > so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all > > need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can > > be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities > > simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), > > and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download > > and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > > > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python > > interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and > > setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > > > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well > > organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > > system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > > in it to share... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > > > > > Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > > > I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 07:53:41 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:53:41 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?a0xvZyBQbGFubmluZyBHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <49C0E096.7030601@gmail.com> References: <49C0E096.7030601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <<< It is another thing to come up to speed on. >>> Yes. -----Original Message----- From: John W Colby To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:52:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > Not to mention the fact that many of us don't use source control at all > on a daily basis. It is another thing to come up to speed on. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Mark Breen wrote: > > Hello Shamil, > > As a member of a four person team a couple of years ago, we had some issues > > with source control. At the time, there was pressure to start work on the > > project so we neglected the issue of centralized source control. It became > > a major issue to the project and was one of the reasons why the project was > > only a limited success. Four years later, it still remains difficult to get > > access to the code on that project. > > > > If we can iron on the centralized source control now, and make it seamless, > > I believe that it would be the best choice. > > > > FYI. We tried three different systems / storage locations, what we found on > > our project was that some aspects worked better for some sites, (we had US, > > Ireland and Germany). The German guys really loved their solution but of > > course they had LAN access to the server. The US guys were happy enough > > with the German solution but it was slow. But the Irish guys had some > > routing problems that meant that it took 30 mins to check out a small > > solution. ---- The point being here that the chosen solution must work > > well for all team members. > > > > My personal opinion is also that if source control is quick and fast, it > > becomes second nature and is not an obstacle to smooth work, what ever > > architecture we choose should be practiced a few times by all team members > > so that we can all check in and out quickly and without fear in our hearts. > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > 2009/3/17 Salakhetdinov Shamil - Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > >> Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > >> > >> If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all > >> need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can > >> be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities > >> simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), > >> and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download > >> and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > >> > >> Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python > >> interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and > >> setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > >> > >> Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well > >> organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > >> in it to share... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > >> Basic and related programming issues." > >> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:01:46 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning Game... > >> > >> > >>> Hmm, Python. Heard a lot, never tried. > >>> I'll have to download it and see if it runs. > >>> > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 07:54:38 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:54:38 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCAuTkVUIFByb2R1Y3QgQmFj?= =?koi8-r?b?IGtMb2cgUGxhbm5pbmdHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, Gustav, I agree, Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog PlanningGame... > Hi Shamil > > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to require some effort to set up and test. > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: > > http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via .bat files... > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use them? > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files in it to share... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 12:49:49 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:49:49 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?RndkOiB0byB0ZXN0?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Mark, This is good news. This is good that you made a proposal, and then came with a constructive solution very promptly :) It's very much appreciated! Still I'd not force SCRUM team members to use this solution from the very beginning if they only do not want to try it by themselves: one of the main SCRUMMaster's roles AFAIG is to "shield" team members from any impediments coming from outside, especially from ProductOwner :) Well, I'm a kind of kidding for this certain our case with SCCS :) - in fact being a developer it is very tempting for me to try this solution with your server... But let's SCRUM team members decide by themselves? - please Gustav, Mike, John and Doug - based on tempting proposal of our respectful ProductOwner Mark would you like to start development next week with trying to setup SCC provided there will be first version of the source solution already there on our SCC Server? (I will try to put it there over weekend...) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:17:38 +0000 Subject: Fwd: to test > Hello All, > > Having just read the responses from all my first comment is absolutely OK, I > am product owner role in this project and as as such will try to adhere to just > that role. > > However, let me tell you that since I sent my first email this morning about > source control, I did some work before I read the additional emails that are > leaning torwards not using SCCS, so I will report here on that work, and > then the team can decide what they want to do. > > Shamil, I stress again here I am not attempting to push my opinions about > source control, just offering you the choice here, as I have already done a > little work on it today. > > I played with codeplex but found it terribly slow and eventually I did not > get it to work for me, I then googled the errors I was getting and saw other > had the same errors. > > ========== > I have created a subversion server so if you want to use it, you must do the > following four steps > > 1) download and install TortiseSVN from the following URL > http://tortoisesvn.net/downloads obviously choose the windows version you > need 32 bit probably. > (should finish in less than five mins, you do not need to reboot) > > > 2) create a folder on your PC where you would like the source code to be > stored and saved for you to work on. This will be the main working folder > you will use when running VS2008 > eg c:\scrum code\ > or > c:\my documents\Visual Studio 2005 > (should be very quick) > > > 3) right click on the new folder and go to your new context sensitive menu > item tortise SVN and then from the submenu, click "create repository here". > See the attached JPG. You will receive a msg box with the message, The > repository was successfully created. > (should also take just 30 seconds) > > last step > 4) You just need to do a check out, from the server, once, to allow the > client to know the address and authentication details, remember to click the > check box to "remember the authentication details" > again see the second jpg that I have attached to this email. The jpg has > two steps including in one picture. > > the url that you need is > > https://www.sjai.org:8443/svn/scrum01 > once you say OK, you can accept the suggestion to create a new folder and > then you will be prompted for your username and password > the users I have created are as follows > > username password > -------- -------- > shamil shamil09 > john john09 > mike mike09 > doug doub09 > gustav gustav09 > > > When you check out, you should receive one text file, I created this > afternoon named test.txt Feel free to update it with your name and anything > else you feel like, or create a few new files and commit them to our > respository. > > We can create new projects when we need to, but we may be happy with keeping > it simple for this project. > > I have tested this server here in Ireland with the big .bak file that Shamil > sent and it works well, if you want to try uploading a larger file, feel > free. > > Finally, these steps are all working here, so if you one person would like > to check that they work for you also, before the entire team spends time on > it, it would be better. > > let me add that if you have use source control, you will know that it is > really easy to work with and > > thanks > > Mark > > > > > > > > 2009/3/18 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > OK, Gustav, I agree, > > Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. > > CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: > > > http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home > > but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or > other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and > we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog > PlanningGame... > > > Hi Shamil > > > > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to > require some effort to set up and test. > > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the > Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: > > > > > http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we > all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR > can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those > utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS > this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with > upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via > .bat files... > > > > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if > Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some > files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use > them? > > > > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code > well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control > system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files > in it to share... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Mark > > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (creating a repository locally.JPG) > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (checking out for the first time.JPG) > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 13:11:23 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:11:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: to test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C1394B.5060801@gmail.com> I am very interested in source control, always have been. I have never done it (though I have tried) simply because it didn't work and I had no one to fall back on for answers. I will certainly give Mark's instructions a shot and see what I see. I look at this as an additional tool in my box completely outside of this scrum project. Thanks Mark for researching this and setting it up. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you, Mark, > > This is good news. > This is good that you made a proposal, and then came with a constructive solution very promptly :) > It's very much appreciated! > > Still I'd not force SCRUM team members to use this solution from the very beginning if they only do not want to try it by themselves: one of the main SCRUMMaster's roles AFAIG is to "shield" team members from any impediments coming from outside, especially from ProductOwner :) > > Well, I'm a kind of kidding for this certain our case with SCCS :) - in fact being a developer it is very tempting for me to try this solution with your server... > > But let's SCRUM team members decide by themselves? - please Gustav, Mike, John and Doug - based on tempting proposal of our respectful ProductOwner Mark would you like to start development next week with trying to setup SCC provided there will be first version of the source solution already there on our SCC Server? (I will try to put it there over weekend...) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Breen > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:17:38 +0000 > Subject: Fwd: to test > > >> Hello All, >> >> Having just read the responses from all my first comment is absolutely OK, I >> am product owner role in this project and as as such will try to adhere to just >> that role. >> >> However, let me tell you that since I sent my first email this morning about >> source control, I did some work before I read the additional emails that are >> leaning torwards not using SCCS, so I will report here on that work, and >> then the team can decide what they want to do. >> >> Shamil, I stress again here I am not attempting to push my opinions about >> source control, just offering you the choice here, as I have already done a >> little work on it today. >> >> I played with codeplex but found it terribly slow and eventually I did not >> get it to work for me, I then googled the errors I was getting and saw other >> had the same errors. >> >> ========== >> I have created a subversion server so if you want to use it, you must do the >> following four steps >> >> 1) download and install TortiseSVN from the following URL >> http://tortoisesvn.net/downloads obviously choose the windows version you >> need 32 bit probably. >> (should finish in less than five mins, you do not need to reboot) >> >> >> 2) create a folder on your PC where you would like the source code to be >> stored and saved for you to work on. This will be the main working folder >> you will use when running VS2008 >> eg c:\scrum code\ >> or >> c:\my documents\Visual Studio 2005 >> (should be very quick) >> >> >> 3) right click on the new folder and go to your new context sensitive menu >> item tortise SVN and then from the submenu, click "create repository here". >> See the attached JPG. You will receive a msg box with the message, The >> repository was successfully created. >> (should also take just 30 seconds) >> >> last step >> 4) You just need to do a check out, from the server, once, to allow the >> client to know the address and authentication details, remember to click the >> check box to "remember the authentication details" >> again see the second jpg that I have attached to this email. The jpg has >> two steps including in one picture. >> >> the url that you need is >> >> https://www.sjai.org:8443/svn/scrum01 >> once you say OK, you can accept the suggestion to create a new folder and >> then you will be prompted for your username and password >> the users I have created are as follows >> >> username password >> -------- -------- >> shamil shamil09 >> john john09 >> mike mike09 >> doug doub09 >> gustav gustav09 >> >> >> When you check out, you should receive one text file, I created this >> afternoon named test.txt Feel free to update it with your name and anything >> else you feel like, or create a few new files and commit them to our >> respository. >> >> We can create new projects when we need to, but we may be happy with keeping >> it simple for this project. >> >> I have tested this server here in Ireland with the big .bak file that Shamil >> sent and it works well, if you want to try uploading a larger file, feel >> free. >> >> Finally, these steps are all working here, so if you one person would like >> to check that they work for you also, before the entire team spends time on >> it, it would be better. >> >> let me add that if you have use source control, you will know that it is >> really easy to work with and >> >> thanks >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2009/3/18 Salakhetdinov Shamil >> >> OK, Gustav, I agree, >> >> Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. >> >> CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: >> >> >> http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home >> >> but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or >> other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and >> we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Gustav Brock" >> To: >> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog >> PlanningGame... >> >> > Hi Shamil >> > >> > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to >> require some effort to set up and test. >> > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the >> Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: >> > >> > >> http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS >> > >> > /gustav >> > >> > >> > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> >> > >> > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> > >> > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we >> all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR >> can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those >> utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS >> this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with >> upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via >> .bat files... >> > >> > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if >> Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some >> files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use >> them? >> > >> > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code >> well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files >> in it to share... >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mark >> >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (creating a repository locally.JPG) >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (checking out for the first time.JPG) >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 13:13:34 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:13:34 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: to test - SCRUM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C139CE.1070000@gmail.com> I would ask that all members try to place the work SCRUM in the subject so that my filters can pick up all messages and place them in the right email box. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you, Mark, > > This is good news. > This is good that you made a proposal, and then came with a constructive solution very promptly :) > It's very much appreciated! > > Still I'd not force SCRUM team members to use this solution from the very beginning if they only do not want to try it by themselves: one of the main SCRUMMaster's roles AFAIG is to "shield" team members from any impediments coming from outside, especially from ProductOwner :) > > Well, I'm a kind of kidding for this certain our case with SCCS :) - in fact being a developer it is very tempting for me to try this solution with your server... > > But let's SCRUM team members decide by themselves? - please Gustav, Mike, John and Doug - based on tempting proposal of our respectful ProductOwner Mark would you like to start development next week with trying to setup SCC provided there will be first version of the source solution already there on our SCC Server? (I will try to put it there over weekend...) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Breen > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:17:38 +0000 > Subject: Fwd: to test > > >> Hello All, >> >> Having just read the responses from all my first comment is absolutely OK, I >> am product owner role in this project and as as such will try to adhere to just >> that role. >> >> However, let me tell you that since I sent my first email this morning about >> source control, I did some work before I read the additional emails that are >> leaning torwards not using SCCS, so I will report here on that work, and >> then the team can decide what they want to do. >> >> Shamil, I stress again here I am not attempting to push my opinions about >> source control, just offering you the choice here, as I have already done a >> little work on it today. >> >> I played with codeplex but found it terribly slow and eventually I did not >> get it to work for me, I then googled the errors I was getting and saw other >> had the same errors. >> >> ========== >> I have created a subversion server so if you want to use it, you must do the >> following four steps >> >> 1) download and install TortiseSVN from the following URL >> http://tortoisesvn.net/downloads obviously choose the windows version you >> need 32 bit probably. >> (should finish in less than five mins, you do not need to reboot) >> >> >> 2) create a folder on your PC where you would like the source code to be >> stored and saved for you to work on. This will be the main working folder >> you will use when running VS2008 >> eg c:\scrum code\ >> or >> c:\my documents\Visual Studio 2005 >> (should be very quick) >> >> >> 3) right click on the new folder and go to your new context sensitive menu >> item tortise SVN and then from the submenu, click "create repository here". >> See the attached JPG. You will receive a msg box with the message, The >> repository was successfully created. >> (should also take just 30 seconds) >> >> last step >> 4) You just need to do a check out, from the server, once, to allow the >> client to know the address and authentication details, remember to click the >> check box to "remember the authentication details" >> again see the second jpg that I have attached to this email. The jpg has >> two steps including in one picture. >> >> the url that you need is >> >> https://www.sjai.org:8443/svn/scrum01 >> once you say OK, you can accept the suggestion to create a new folder and >> then you will be prompted for your username and password >> the users I have created are as follows >> >> username password >> -------- -------- >> shamil shamil09 >> john john09 >> mike mike09 >> doug doub09 >> gustav gustav09 >> >> >> When you check out, you should receive one text file, I created this >> afternoon named test.txt Feel free to update it with your name and anything >> else you feel like, or create a few new files and commit them to our >> respository. >> >> We can create new projects when we need to, but we may be happy with keeping >> it simple for this project. >> >> I have tested this server here in Ireland with the big .bak file that Shamil >> sent and it works well, if you want to try uploading a larger file, feel >> free. >> >> Finally, these steps are all working here, so if you one person would like >> to check that they work for you also, before the entire team spends time on >> it, it would be better. >> >> let me add that if you have use source control, you will know that it is >> really easy to work with and >> >> thanks >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2009/3/18 Salakhetdinov Shamil >> >> OK, Gustav, I agree, >> >> Let's postpone SCCS usage as I proposed in my answer on MArk message. >> >> CodePlex looks preferrable here now based on that information: >> >> >> http://codeplexclient.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Workflow&referringTitle=Home >> >> but it's still unclear how much time it will get to have CodePlex (or >> other SCC systems) to be introduced on our PCs to develop NorthWind.NET, and >> we currently do not have time resources to try this or that option... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Gustav Brock" >> To: >> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:23 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product Bac kLog >> PlanningGame... >> >> > Hi Shamil >> > >> > I tend to agree. Both Bazaar and LaunchPad look clever but seem to >> require some effort to set up and test. >> > CodePlex seems, however, to work with Visual Studio though not the >> Express version, thus neither is this worth the efforts: >> > >> > >> http://codeplex.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client&referringTitle=Using%20CodePlex%20without%20VS-TFS >> > >> > /gustav >> > >> > >> > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-03-2009 23:19 >>> >> > >> > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> > >> > If BAZAAR needs Python interpreter I'd not use it (at least now as we >> all need to learn a lot of new stuff) - on first glance I understood BAZZAR >> can be used locally by running command line utilites but for those >> utilities simple batch files should be possible to create (e.g. I used CVS >> this way), and if used via Lauchpad then somehow via web interface with >> upload/download and again coordinate locally using command line utils via >> .bat files... >> > >> > Let's not tie ourselves with Python if BAZAAR needs it? Although if >> Python interpreter and Bazaar installation is as simple as unzipping some >> files and setting some runtime environment variables then why not try to use >> them? >> > >> > Source control is desirable as it sets some boundaries to keep code >> well organized but in fact I suppose we can work without any source control >> system for this first project as there shoudln't be that much source files >> in it to share... >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mark >> >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (creating a repository locally.JPG) >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (checking out for the first time.JPG) >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 13:47:36 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:47:36 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team members, Still no e-mail with estimations from Doug. I have asked him today again to make the estimation worksheet and to send it to me for me to make and to publish combined worksheet. Let's wait for today, and if the estimations from Doug will not come we can start discussion based on our estimations and then Doug will join us? Thank you. -- Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W Colby > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning > Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > > > That sounds good to me also. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John > and myself. > > > > > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed > me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not > have time to make his estimations. > > > > > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to > come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this > project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but > taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for > experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly > design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as > shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's > SkyDrive). > > > > > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > > > > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application > in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that > done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > > > > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > estimations here - is that OK with you? > > > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore > there is some work to do in coordinating them. > > > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > > issues." > > > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > > > > > > > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > > >> > > >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > > >> I have made mine over weekend. > > >> > > >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come > today then I will immediately post all of them here to start > coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with > them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to > plan implementation/release... > > >> > > >> Thank you. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Shamil > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > >> To: dba-VB > > >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > Game... > > >> > > >> > > >>> Hi SCRUM Team, > > >>> > > >>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > values: > > >>> > > >>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > >>> > > >>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT > gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to > use them on the next estimation round. > > >>> > > >>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to > > >>> make first round estimantions as independent as possible - > > >>> http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > >>> > > >>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - > > >>> just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's > > >>> unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented > > >>> (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct > > >>> correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do > > > >>> here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer > > > >>> - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > >>> > > >>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > >>> > > >>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks > like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > >>> > > >>> Please ask your questions. > > >>> Please make your estimations. > > >>> > > >>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > >>> > > >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.D > > >>> ocuments/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > >>> > > >>> or here: > > >>> > > >>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > > >>> (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=S > > >>> CRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Thank you. > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Shamil > > >>> > > >>> P.S. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> FORMS > > >>> ===== > > >>> > > >>> 1 Categories > > >>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > >>> 3 Customer Orders > > >>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > >>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > >>> 6 Customer Phone List > > >>> 7 Customers => 2 > > >>> 8 Employees => 5 > > >>> 9 Main Switchboard > > >>> 10 Orders > > >>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > >>> 12 Product List > > >>> 13 Products > > >>> 14 Quarterly Orders > > >>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > >>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > >>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > >>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > >>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > >>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > >>> 21 Startup > > >>> 22 Suppliers > > >>> > > >>> REPORTS > > >>> ======= > > >>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > >>> 2 Catalog > > >>> 3 Catalog Subreport > > >>> 4 Customer Labels > > >>> 5 Employee Sales by Country > > >>> 6 Invoice => 5 > > >>> 7 Products by Category > > >>> 8 Sales by Category > > >>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > >>> 10 Sales by Year > > >>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > >>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > >>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > >>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> dba-VB mailing list > > >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> dba-VB mailing list > > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 18 14:36:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:36:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team members, I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:47:36 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > Hi SCRUM team members, > > Still no e-mail with estimations from Doug. > I have asked him today again to make the estimation worksheet and to send it to me for me to make and to publish combined worksheet. > > Let's wait for today, and if the estimations from Doug will not come we can start discussion based on our estimations and then Doug will join us? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John W Colby > > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning > > Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > > > That sounds good to me also. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > > > > > I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John > > and myself. > > > > > > > > I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed > > me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not > > have time to make his estimations. > > > > > > > > What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to > > come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this > > project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but > > taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for > > experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly > > design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as > > shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's > > SkyDrive). > > > > > > > > I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting > > mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members > > beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any > > NorthWind .NET form or report... > > > > > > > > I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application > > in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that > > done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... > > > > > > > > When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our > > estimations here - is that OK with you? > > > > I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore > > there is some work to do in coordinating them. > > > > In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial > > planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week > > discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but > > discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related > > issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > > > issues." > > > > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 > > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > >> > > > >> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. > > > >> I have made mine over weekend. > > > >> > > > >> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come > > today then I will immediately post all of them here to start > > coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with > > them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to > > plan implementation/release... > > > >> > > > >> Thank you. > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Shamil > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > >> To: dba-VB > > > >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 > > > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning > > Game... > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> Hi SCRUM Team, > > > >>> > > > >>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product > > backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following > > values: > > > >>> > > > >>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > >>> > > > >>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT > > gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to > > use them on the next estimation round. > > > >>> > > > >>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to > > > >>> make first round estimantions as independent as possible - > > > >>> http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ > > > >>> > > > >>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - > > > >>> just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's > > > >>> unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented > > > >>> (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct > > > >>> correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do > > > > > >>> here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer > > > > > >>> - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) > > > >>> > > > >>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in > > WinForms features as in samples I used previously. > > > >>> > > > >>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks > > like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). > > > >>> > > > >>> Please ask your questions. > > > >>> Please make your estimations. > > > >>> > > > >>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: > > > >>> > > > >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.D > > > >>> ocuments/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 > > > >>> > > > >>> or here: > > > >>> > > > >>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html > > > >>> (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=S > > > >>> CRUM_Planning_Game.xls) > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Thank you. > > > >>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Shamil > > > >>> > > > >>> P.S. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> FORMS > > > >>> ===== > > > >>> > > > >>> 1 Categories > > > >>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 > > > >>> 3 Customer Orders > > > >>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 > > > >>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 > > > >>> 6 Customer Phone List > > > >>> 7 Customers => 2 > > > >>> 8 Employees => 5 > > > >>> 9 Main Switchboard > > > >>> 10 Orders > > > >>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 > > > >>> 12 Product List > > > >>> 13 Products > > > >>> 14 Quarterly Orders > > > >>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform > > > >>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? > > > >>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? > > > >>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? > > > >>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog > > > >>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog > > > >>> 21 Startup > > > >>> 22 Suppliers > > > >>> > > > >>> REPORTS > > > >>> ======= > > > >>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 > > > >>> 2 Catalog > > > >>> 3 Catalog Subreport > > > >>> 4 Customer Labels > > > >>> 5 Employee Sales by Country > > > >>> 6 Invoice => 5 > > > >>> 7 Products by Category > > > >>> 8 Sales by Category > > > >>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport > > > >>> 10 Sales by Year > > > >>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport > > > >>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount > > > >>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter > > > >>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year > > > >>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> dba-VB mailing list > > > >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> dba-VB mailing list > > > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 15:15:00 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:15:00 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C15644.3050803@gmail.com> Shamil, I receive "item seems to be missing" from the first link. I got it off the second link. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:47:36 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > >> Hi SCRUM team members, >> >> Still no e-mail with estimations from Doug. >> I have asked him today again to make the estimation worksheet and to send it to me for me to make and to publish combined worksheet. >> >> Let's wait for today, and if the estimations from Doug will not come we can start discussion based on our estimations and then Doug will join us? >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: John W Colby >>> To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning >>> Visual Basic and related programming issues." >>> >>> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:23:16 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >>> Game... >>> >>> >>>> That sounds good to me also. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi SCRUM team at all, >>>>> >>>>> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike, Gustav, John >>>>> >>> and myself. >>> >>>>> I'm waiting for estimations to come from Doug. He has just informed >>>>> >>> me he has important private events today, and it may happen he will not >>> have time to make his estimations. >>> >>>>> What we can do now? I'd propose to wait for Doug's estimations to >>>>> >>> come, and meanwhile start constructive discussion how we can get this >>> project developed in context when we have different .NET experience but >>> taking into account that most of the work to do is simple for >>> experienced developers(whatever modern developmen tools they use) mainly >>> design and almost no coding work. At least it looks so from here (as >>> shown in some samples I have posted already on MS Live dba-VB Group's >>> SkyDrive). >>> >>>>> I'd expect that adding some simple introductory tutorials consisting >>>>> >>> mainly from screenshots we should be able to get the team members >>> beginning their .NET development practice skilled enough to develop any >>> NorthWind .NET form or report... >>> >>>>> I suppose we plan develop *not* "industry strong" .NET application >>>>> >>> in this project but a sample .NET Winform desktop application. When that >>> done we can go further... where? we will decide as we proceed... >>> >>>>> When I will get estimations from Doug I plan to post all of our >>>>> >>> estimations here - is that OK with you? >>> >>>>> I must say the current estimations do differ considerably therefore >>>>> >>> there is some work to do in coordinating them. >>> >>>>> In SCRUM four hours are usually spent for the ProductBackLog initial >>>>> >>> planning: I'd propose to "spread" these four hours within this week >>> discussion IOW no still real C# development within this week but >>> discussing ProductBacklog and planning first SCRUM Sprint and related >>> issues, and starting real development next Monday - OK? >>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >>>>> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >>>>> issues." >>>>> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:15:09 +0300 >>>>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >>>>> >>> Game... >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi SCRUM team at all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have got ProductBacklog items estimations from Mike. >>>>>> I have made mine over weekend. >>>>>> >>>>>> Waiting here for estimations from Gustav, Doug and John to come >>>>>> >>> today then I will immediately post all of them here to start >>> coordination of our estimations for everybody to get comfortable with >>> them, and to present them after coordination to ProductOwner (Mark) to >>> plan implementation/release... >>> >>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Shamil >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >>>>>> To: dba-VB >>>>>> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:21:13 +0300 >>>>>> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLog Planning >>>>>> >>> Game... >>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi SCRUM Team, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please estimate "ideal hours" to develop our first project product >>>>>>> >>> backlog items using "SCRUM planning poker cards" with the following >>> values: >>> >>>>>>> 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please send your estimations to me (Shamil.Salakhetdinov AT >>>>>>> >>> gmail.com) to make here a common worksheet with all the estimations to >>> use them on the next estimation round. >>> >>>>>>> Please do not post your estimations here on this first round to >>>>>>> make first round estimantions as independent as possible - >>>>>>> http://www.crisp.se/planningpoker/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Below is the list of BackLog items with some estimations I made - >>>>>>> just as examples. Three question marks estimation means that it's >>>>>>> unclear how much time it will take to make that item implemented >>>>>>> (Here it's a pivot form, which doesn't have built-in direct >>>>>>> correspondence in .NET WinForms hence it's unclear what we will do >>>>>>> >>>>>>> here and how much time this work will take. If you know the answer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - please make your more definitive estimation for this item.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I made my below several estimations assuming we will use built-in >>>>>>> >>> WinForms features as in samples I used previously. >>> >>>>>>> I have made my own estimation of all the items already - it looks >>>>>>> >>> like we should fit well 100 hours (20x5). >>> >>>>>>> Please ask your questions. >>>>>>> Please make your estimations. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can download workbook with BackLog items here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.D >>>>>>> ocuments/NorthWind.NET/SCRUM%7C_Planning%7C_Game.xls?ccr=365 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> or here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb/pages/5.html >>>>>>> (http://www1.atwiki.com/dba-vb?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=5&file=S >>>>>>> CRUM_Planning_Game.xls) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Shamil >>>>>>> >>>>>>> P.S. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> FORMS >>>>>>> ===== >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1 Categories >>>>>>> 2 Customer Labels Dialog => 1 >>>>>>> 3 Customer Orders >>>>>>> 4 Customer Orders Subform1 => 1 >>>>>>> 5 Customer Orders Subform2 >>>>>>> 6 Customer Phone List >>>>>>> 7 Customers => 2 >>>>>>> 8 Employees => 5 >>>>>>> 9 Main Switchboard >>>>>>> 10 Orders >>>>>>> 11 Orders Subform => 1 >>>>>>> 12 Product List >>>>>>> 13 Products >>>>>>> 14 Quarterly Orders >>>>>>> 15 Quarterly Orders Subform >>>>>>> 16 Sales Analysis => ??? >>>>>>> 17 Sales Analysis Subform1 => ??? >>>>>>> 18 Sales Analysis Subform2 => ??? >>>>>>> 19 Sales by Year Dialog >>>>>>> 20 Sales Reports Dialog >>>>>>> 21 Startup >>>>>>> 22 Suppliers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> REPORTS >>>>>>> ======= >>>>>>> 1 Alphabetical List of Products => 2 >>>>>>> 2 Catalog >>>>>>> 3 Catalog Subreport >>>>>>> 4 Customer Labels >>>>>>> 5 Employee Sales by Country >>>>>>> 6 Invoice => 5 >>>>>>> 7 Products by Category >>>>>>> 8 Sales by Category >>>>>>> 9 Sales by Category Subreport >>>>>>> 10 Sales by Year >>>>>>> 11 Sales by Year Subreport >>>>>>> 12 Sales Totals by Amount >>>>>>> 13 Summary of Sales by Quarter >>>>>>> 14 Summary of Sales by Year >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> dba-VB mailing list >>>>>>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>>>>>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> dba-VB mailing list >>>>>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>>>>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> dba-VB mailing list >>>>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>>>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 18 15:56:52 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... References: Message-ID: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> I've got it, thanks. I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, if called upon to do so! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with > all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not > have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation > numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original > plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend > rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > up&running. > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please > post your considerations. > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes > several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number > of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they > will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From jwcolby at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 16:39:49 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:39:49 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> I'm a little surprised at the high estimates myself. I was told to estimate times similar to doing it in Access and it would never take more than a few minutes to set up simple subforms for example. I estimated .5 hours for most of the subforms but everyone else estimates an hour or even more. Of course my estimates are not based on actual form dev work in .Net since I have none. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mike Mattys wrote: > I've got it, thanks. > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > if called upon to do so! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 18 16:46:19 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:46:19 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> Message-ID: Trust me, John, it can go either way. Depends largely on how you handle the data population. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:40 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... I'm a little surprised at the high estimates myself. I was told to estimate times similar to doing it in Access and it would never take more than a few minutes to set up simple subforms for example. I estimated .5 hours for most of the subforms but everyone else estimates an hour or even more. Of course my estimates are not based on actual form dev work in .Net since I have none. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mike Mattys wrote: > I've got it, thanks. > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, if called upon > to do so! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 19 01:50:58 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:50:58 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... Message-ID: Hi Shamil This is fine for me. The reason for my high estimates is that I probably spend more time on design as sloppy design for most clients and users indicates a sloppy application. Also, I've found that even when a task seems to be fast to get finished, you (I) often spend some time on evaluation of alternative methods - as Charlotte has mentioned multiple times, you often find that a task can be done in multiple ways. For this project where design is bound I may, however, have been too pessimistic. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 18-03-2009 20:36 >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 13:43:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:43:12 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNDUlVNOiBOb3J0aHdpbmQgLk5FVFBy?= =?koi8-r?b?b2R1Y3QJQmFja0xvZ1BsYW5uaW5nIEdhbWUuLi4=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, That's OK. Yes, I'd propose to use in this reports forms and reports bound to strongly typed datasets - this approach will let us to concentrate on designs and to have a a little coding - good for our team as we have members who are only startings developing in .NET but they have good experience with MS Access, and designing of .NET bound forms and reports should be relatively easuy for them to start with... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:50:58 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NETProduct BackLogPlanning Game... > Hi Shamil > > This is fine for me. > > The reason for my high estimates is that I probably spend more time on design as sloppy design for most clients and users indicates a sloppy application. Also, I've found that even when a task seems to be fast to get finished, you (I) often spend some time on evaluation of alternative methods - as Charlotte has mentioned multiple times, you often find that a task can be done in multiple ways. For this project where design is bound I may, however, have been too pessimistic. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 18-03-2009 20:36 >>> > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control up&running. > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please post your considerations. > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 13:52:44 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:52:44 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNDUlVNOiBOb3J0aHdpbmQgLk5FVFBy?= =?koi8-r?b?b2R1Y3QJQmFja0xvZ1BsYW5uaW5nIEdhbWUuLi4=?= In-Reply-To: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> References: <49C16A25.3060806@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi John, First of all I'd note you seems to be very quick with MS Access forms and reports design :) We will try to fit your estimations but I'd propose we'd better have almost twice more time planned for this project (as AVG valu currently gives) to not make this project stressful - just fun of teamwork development. Yes, developing bound to datasets .NET WinForms and reports is similar in my opinion to manual design of bound MS Access forms/reports I'd even think that VS forms' layout design features (placing controls, alighing them etc.) is more powerful that in MS Access but you and Mike and Doug will still need time to adapt to all that features - hence better have as twice time as in our estimation... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: John W Colby To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:39:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NETProduct BackLogPlanning Game... > I'm a little surprised at the high estimates myself. I was told to > estimate times similar to doing it in Access and it would never take > more than a few minutes to set up simple subforms for example. I > estimated .5 hours for most of the subforms but everyone else estimates > an hour or even more. > > Of course my estimates are not based on actual form dev work in .Net > since I have none. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Mike Mattys wrote: > > I've got it, thanks. > > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > > if called upon to do so! > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 13:57:40 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:57:40 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > I've got it, thanks. > I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > if called upon to do so! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning > Game... > > > > Hi SCRUM Team members, > > > > I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with > > all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > > > Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not > > have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > > > In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > > estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation > > numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > > > The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original > > plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > > Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > > > If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend > > rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > > up&running. > > > > If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please > > post your considerations. > > > > Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes > > several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number > > of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > > > Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they > > will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > > > I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > > > http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 19 14:18:21 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:18:21 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> Do I mean ...? :) Actually, I've never used it before so I wouldn't venture any such guesses. Lead on, Shamil, I'll try to follow. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > Hi Mike, > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) > should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - > which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then > we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 14:34:27 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:34:27 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmcgR2FtZS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> References: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you, Mike. If every SCRUM member agree I can pass the current set of estimations to ProductOwner for him to propose in what sequence he wanted to get forms and reports developed. OK? Also we will have to discuss (next week or later) what should be actual navigation between forms and reports as in the source MS Access NorthWind application not all forms and reports are available to be opened while navigating this sample MS Access application. For starters I'd just create an additional "fake switchboard" form to have all the other forms and reports available to be opened from this "fake switchboard". Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:18:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > Do I mean ...? :) > > Actually, I've never used it before > so I wouldn't venture any such guesses. > > Lead on, Shamil, I'll try to follow. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:57 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning > Game... > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) > > should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - > > which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then > > we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > From jwcolby at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 15:03:44 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:03:44 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <69EF125A33324B0EA5C6289085F8693E@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C2A520.4010105@gmail.com> Agreed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Thank you, Mike. > > If every SCRUM member agree I can pass the current set of estimations to ProductOwner for him to propose in what sequence he wanted to get forms and reports developed. OK? > > Also we will have to discuss (next week or later) what should be actual navigation between forms and reports as in the source MS Access NorthWind application not all forms and reports are available to be opened while navigating this sample MS Access application. For starters I'd just create an additional "fake switchboard" form to have all the other forms and reports available to be opened from this "fake switchboard". > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:18:21 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > >> Do I mean ...? :) >> >> Actually, I've never used it before >> so I wouldn't venture any such guesses. >> >> Lead on, Shamil, I'll try to follow. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:57 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning >> Game... >> >> >> >>> Hi Mike, >>> >>> Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) >>> should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - >>> which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then >>> we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 15:05:00 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... In-Reply-To: References: <02E0A7D4C892472187CF87F518613CA7@Mattys> Message-ID: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > >> I've got it, thanks. >> I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, >> if called upon to do so! >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning >> Game... >> >> >> >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, >>> >>> I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with >>> all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: >>> >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 >>> >>> Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not >>> have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) >>> >>> In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all >>> estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation >>> numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? >>> >>> The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original >>> plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. >>> Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. >>> >>> If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend >>> rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control >>> up&running. >>> >>> If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please >>> post your considerations. >>> >>> Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes >>> several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number >>> of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. >>> >>> Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they >>> will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... >>> >>> I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: >>> >>> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 19 16:54:45 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:54:45 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdICBTQ1JVTTogTm9ydGh3aW5kIC5ORVQg?= =?koi8-r?b?UHJvZHVjdCBCYWNrTG9nUGxhbm5pbmdHYW1lLi4u?= In-Reply-To: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi John, When we talked originally on this project it was planned to do it in one month with every team member spending not more than one hour within a working day, which totals to 20-22 hours per member per month - approx. 100 hours for 5 team members. (Note: anybody can spend that five hours within one day within a week if they have free time or split them within two days etc. but it's important to have equal amount of total time spent every week - important for planning/predictability etc. - to calculate team velocity...) If we will not fit 100 hours max value some of the ProductBackLog items will be left undone - then ProductOwner can decide shall there be a follow-up or not - this is how SCRUM process handles ProductBackLog items based on realistic approach/assumption/real life experience that if project time frame was underestimated then there should be some ProductBackLog items left undone: SCRUM team shouldn't work extra hours (for free) etc. to get all the work done... Yes, that may sound idealistic on first glance but the more projects a team completes the more precise their estimations become, and the more trust is created between team + SCRUMMaster and ProductOwner + StakeHolders/Users - the latter know/trust that SCRUM team does their best... Somehere in the middle when it will be more clear how well we perform (or earlier or later) ProductOwner could rearrange ProductBackLog items implementation sequence to have as much as possible and the most required items done within given (left) time frame (and budget in real life case)... Maybe I'm too optimistic but I currently suppose we should make all the forms/reports in less than 100 hours... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: John W Colby To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... > Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total > value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle > that. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning Game... > > > > > >> I've got it, thanks. > >> I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > >> if called upon to do so! > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanning > >> Game... > >> > >> > >> > >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, > >>> > >>> I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook with > >>> all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > >>> > >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > >>> > >>> Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do not > >>> have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > >>> > >>> In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > >>> estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM evaluation > >>> numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > >>> > >>> The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our original > >>> plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > >>> Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > >>> > >>> If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and spend > >>> rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > >>> up&running. > >>> > >>> If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - please > >>> post your considerations. > >>> > >>> Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually takes > >>> several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total number > >>> of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > >>> > >>> Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever they > >>> will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > >>> > >>> I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > >>> > >>> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Shamil > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > From jwcolby at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 17:57:05 2009 From: jwcolby at gmail.com (John W Colby) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:57:05 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... In-Reply-To: References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49C2CDC1.3060209@gmail.com> Understood. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi John, > > When we talked originally on this project it was planned to do it in one month with every team member spending not more than one hour within a working day, which totals to 20-22 hours per member per month - approx. 100 hours for 5 team members. (Note: anybody can spend that five hours within one day within a week if they have free time or split them within two days etc. but it's important to have equal amount of total time spent every week - important for planning/predictability etc. - to calculate team velocity...) > > If we will not fit 100 hours max value some of the ProductBackLog items will be left undone - then ProductOwner can decide shall there be a follow-up or not - this is how SCRUM process handles ProductBackLog items based on realistic approach/assumption/real life experience that if project time frame was underestimated then there should be some ProductBackLog items left undone: SCRUM team shouldn't work extra hours (for free) etc. to get all the work done... > > Yes, that may sound idealistic on first glance but the more projects a team completes the more precise their estimations become, and the more trust is created between team + SCRUMMaster and ProductOwner + StakeHolders/Users - the latter know/trust that SCRUM team does their best... > > Somehere in the middle when it will be more clear how well we perform (or earlier or later) ProductOwner could rearrange ProductBackLog items implementation sequence to have as much as possible and the most required items done within given (left) time frame (and budget in real life case)... > > Maybe I'm too optimistic but I currently suppose we should make all the forms/reports in less than 100 hours... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W Colby > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... > > >> Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total >> value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle >> that. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> > From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 19 21:01:47 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:01:47 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Has it been decided to move this back to AccessD? I have seen a lot of traffic on this subject on that list. I need to filter these messages to a specific folder so I don't loose them. When there is a lot of traffic on the D list I tend to group and do bulk deletes on items. Doug From marklbreen at gmail.com Fri Mar 20 04:41:31 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:41:31 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... In-Reply-To: References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Shamil, I have one or two questions on scrum techniques. In the estimates, the product owner has to make some judgement calls on which items to drop, and which items to include. Or let me phrase that better, the product owner has to prioritise his importance of the items, in the hope that he receives all, but if he does not, then he must decide which items to exclude. Background of question first My personal instinct, and the behavior of most people I know will be to seek some additional information from the 'supplier' as to why feature a takes one hour and feature b takes 5 hours. I would expect that most people would assume that this background information assists them in their decision process, as they are making it from a position of knowledge. Also, as a product owner in this case, I imagine that there is a certain element of risk / gambling on the product owners behalf, i.e. do I place this feature (a 5 hour estimate) at the top of the list, and guarantee its delivery, or do I drop it down the list, and guarantee five other (1 hour) features. My instinct at this point is that most people will desire a little background on the justifications for why one item is one hour and one item is five hours. Now the question to our ScrumMaster In this new world, is the above appropriate thinking on behalf of the product owner. Do I / should I re-program my brain to accept blindly the estimates and focus only on what is important as a delivered feature and NOT on why feature A takes five times the time to produce feature B. If I take this blind leap of faith, will I eventually produce more accurate views on what is important to my business? i.e. should the product owner keep their nose out of the programmers area and stick to being product owner. Question 2 In a larger project than this one, but even in this small project there are synergies, IOW, the work to produce the suppliers form, may be identical to the work to produce the categories form. Should the product owner know there there is some virtual grouping here? Or once again, should he keep his dirty nose out of these types of concepts. I think you answer will be yes, he should keep his nose out and leave that to the scrum team. Question 3 When are we ready for me to prioritise the list 2009/3/19 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi John, > > When we talked originally on this project it was planned to do it in one > month with every team member spending not more than one hour within a > working day, which totals to 20-22 hours per member per month - approx. 100 > hours for 5 team members. (Note: anybody can spend that five hours within > one day within a week if they have free time or split them within two days > etc. but it's important to have equal amount of total time spent every week > - important for planning/predictability etc. - to calculate team > velocity...) > > If we will not fit 100 hours max value some of the ProductBackLog items > will be left undone - then ProductOwner can decide shall there be a > follow-up or not - this is how SCRUM process handles ProductBackLog items > based on realistic approach/assumption/real life experience that if project > time frame was underestimated then there should be some ProductBackLog items > left undone: SCRUM team shouldn't work extra hours (for free) etc. to get > all the work done... > > Yes, that may sound idealistic on first glance but the more projects a team > completes the more precise their estimations become, and the more trust is > created between team + SCRUMMaster and ProductOwner + StakeHolders/Users - > the latter know/trust that SCRUM team does their best... > > Somehere in the middle when it will be more clear how well we perform (or > earlier or later) ProductOwner could rearrange ProductBackLog items > implementation sequence to have as much as possible and the most required > items done within given (left) time frame (and budget in real life case)... > > Maybe I'm too optimistic but I currently suppose we should make all the > forms/reports in less than 100 hours... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W Colby > To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:05:00 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product > BackLogPlanningGame... > > > Is the max value a preconceived notion that we must fit? If the total > > value is higher than 100 hours then the process should be able to handle > > that. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > > > Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > Do you mean that AVG value (corrected to fit SCRUM recommended numbers) > should be better made higher for all the positions? For some positions - > which ones? (If we will make estimation higher for all the positions then we > will not fit max value of 100 hours (20x5)). > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning > Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:52 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product > BackLogPlanning Game... > > > > > > > > >> I've got it, thanks. > > >> I'll be most happy to submit a little higher estimate, > > >> if called upon to do so! > > >> > > >> - > > >> Michael R Mattys > > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > >> - > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > > >> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:36 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB][AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product > BackLogPlanning > > >> Game... > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> Hi SCRUM Team members, > > >>> > > >>> I have got estimations from Doug and I have made combined workbook > with > > >>> all estimatiions, which I have got published here on MS Live dba-VB: > > >>> > > >>> > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1&isFromRichUpload=1 > > >>> > > >>> Is it available for everybody? (please get MS Live ID if you still do > not > > >>> have it and make a request to join MS Live dba-VB) > > >>> > > >>> In the above workbook you can find that there is an AVG value of all > > >>> estimations and manually corrected AVG value to fit the SCRUM > evaluation > > >>> numbers set: 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 20, ??? > > >>> > > >>> The total number of ideal hours we have now is 86, which fits our > original > > >>> plan of 20x5 = 100 hours. > > >>> Please check my arithmetics and correct if there are some mistakes. > > >>> > > >>> If everybody feels OK with that evaluation we can get it as DONE and > spend > > >>> rest of the time during this week to try to get source code control > > >>> up&running. > > >>> > > >>> If you feel not OK about some positions lets discuss them here - > please > > >>> post your considerations. > > >>> > > >>> Note: in real life product planing discussion/meetings it usually > takes > > >>> several rounds to come to a common set of evaluations but the total > number > > >>> of hours spent on this meeting should be within 4 hours. > > >>> > > >>> Please note also that (most of) the current evaluations (whatever > they > > >>> will finally be) will inevitably change during actual development... > > >>> > > >>> I have also put combined workbook temporarily here: > > >>> > > >>> http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip > > >>> > > >>> Thank you. > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Shamil > > >>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 20 10:14:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:14:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?W0FjY2Vzc0RdIFNDUlVNOiBOb3J0aHdpbmQgLk5FVCBQ?= =?koi8-r?b?cm9kdWN0IEJhY2tMb2dQbGFubmluZ0dhbWUuLi4=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark and SCRUM Team Members, Thank you for your questions Mark. Here are my answers: Question 1: Yes. Question 2: Yes :) Question 3: I think we're ready now - please use http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip to split ProductBackLog into 3 SCRUM Sprints: 1st: 43 "evaluation points" long (2 weeks) 2nd: 22 "evaluation points" long (1 week) 2nd: 22 "evaluation points" long (1 week) (in reality that Sprint planning is more through procedure but let's try to make it light here this time and see how it will work) Please feel free to skip the following lengthy explanations and maybe just read the referenced in P.S. SCRUM methodology stuff. According to my current understanding of SCRUM practices ProductOwner can't communicate directly with team on issues why this or that ProductBackLog position "weights" this or that much. I'm giving references on the SCRUM methodologies' entries below for you and our SCRUM team members to check my understanding. Please read them (they are in total words not much longer than your e-mail), and I think then you will be able to answer your questions by yourself. If not, please ask them again or ask the new ones if needed - and we will try to come to the common ground - SCRUM isn't a "new religion" but a constantly improving methodologies/practice of agile software development... I must say I was not very strictly following SCRUM methodology proposing to the team members to evaluate ProductBackLog items in "ideal hours" - "ideal hour" term is from XP/agile but in SCRUM ProductBackLog items are estimated using abstract "measuring units": one can use "kilograms", another one "pounds", third one "liters" etc. I asked to use "ideal hours" to just "get it(estimation) done" as quick as possible because everybody usually estimate possible workload in time measuring units: hours, days, months... We need something for starters - later on when we will have some statistics on our performance (SCRUM team velocity) we will be able to estimate using more abstract "estimation points"... If everybody interested I can "open my secret" how I did estimate our project BackLogItems - I can say now that this estimation wasn't using directly time related measurement units IOW it could have been wrong in many positions: as you can see my estimation was rather close to Mike's one and is about 20% lower than average we plan to use (as everybody agreed?) as our max time frame. I just wanted to tell that if we estimate now that FormA "weights" 3 "ideal hours" or "kilograms" and FormB "weights" 1 "ideal hour" or "kilogram" then when they will be implemented it may happen that it was spent 1 real hour (or half an hour) to develop FormA and 3 (or 3.5) "real hours" (or "kilograms" of bananas eaten while developing this form?) but they were *done* within one SCRUM sprint, and this means (if nothing else was done) that SCCUM team velocity is 4 ProductBackLog "points" per SCRUM sprint (SCRUM sprint usually takes 1 to 4 weeks). Using that statistics we can plan the next SCRUM sprint (usually statistics for the last 5-8 Sprints are used during next Sprint planning, or statistics of the less "speedy" Sprint, most "speedy" Sprint and one from the "middle speed" for the last 5-8 Sprints... Am I clear enough about this SCRUM evaluation and Sprints planning? If not please ask more questions and I will try to answer them by myself and by giving some more references to read. I must say this is the first time I'm explaining/trying to explain that subject here - IOW we all are learning by doing here now. I have seen how it works in practice but that weren't software projects we used to implement during CSM course. But my SCRUM Trainer used similar SCRUM practices with SCRUM Teams in BusinessWeek and Yahoo and they worked well for them... I'd also propose for us to have 3 SCRUM Sprints during the coming month: 1. 2 weeks long 2. 1 week long 3. 1 week long And I'd suppose/expect that first 2 weeks long SCRUM Sprint should be considered a success if we will make as many "evaluation points" during it as we will do during the shorter 2nd and 3rd one... When you will read the referenced below short articles on SCRUM Sprint planning you will find that ProductOwner communicates with the team while getting to be developed items into next Sprint area/plan and asking team can it be done within that Sprint or not - team can agree/commit to do it or can reject but ProductOwner can't "push" on team and ask why they think they can't do that item if it "weights" say X "ideal hours" and there is still a room in the next Sprint for that item to be done. Here is where SCRUMMaster should take his facilitating role/position to negotiate such ProductBackLog positions with team but without the presence of ProductOwner... All in all ProductOwner does and should communicate very closely with the SCRUM team and he/she has the whole picture of the project progress as in real life case team velocity is measured and published every day based on completed (DONE) Sprint items. But ProductOwner is "forbidden" to push the team, to ask "provocative" questions, to change Sprint items during the started Sprint etc. - this is how I understand these SCRUM practices... I should also note that in real life ProductBackLog items are also getting split into tasks during Sprint planning phase - we're not doing that split now because of our distributed in time mainly offline way of working, and because most of ProductBackLog items beeing rather clear to everybody... And I should also note/underline that SCRUM team velocity is measured only using "Done" (accepted) ProductBackLog positions - if a position is 99.99% "done" it isn't used in calculating SCRUM Team velocity... Mark, knowing your ability to summarize very well I expect you will come here at dba-VB with several sentences summarizing what I have written above and what I have referenced below, and answering very shortly your own questions. Please if you do not have any more questions to discuss put the first set of items from this ProductBackLog (http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/scrum/nwbl.zip ) into first 2 weeks long Sprint. This Sprint is expected to "weight" max 5*5*2 = 50 "evaluation unit points". Please leave some free room in it - let's say 10%. Please note that if the SCRUM team will manage to do 50 points within the first week or first week and the half then this is OK to add more ProductBackLog items to be done (or started) within the first Sprint. But the more probable result will be we will not fit the first SCRUM sprint ProductBackLog - no problem if that will even be half of the backlog not done as this usually happens with new teams. The problem/issue will be when we will not manage to make all ProductBackLog implemented during the whole month long project within three Sprints. Well, I'm wiring "problem" but let's keep it easy here as this is more fun than real work what we're doing here - a SCRUM Club as dba-VB where we all are learning the new things, which are supposed to work well in real life projects we're doing for money+. I'd also propose to measure our team "daily velocity" using every week results as every week should take 5 hours of work of every team member - let's call these 5 hours "a working day"+ If we will be "equally speedy" during all the four weeks then our team velocity will be 87/4 = ~22 "evaluation points per working day" , and we can use these stats while planning other projects, and you as the ProductOwner will know that all is "transparent and clear here" - and SCRUM team is doing their best+ Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Scrum Effort Estimation and Story Points http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-effort-estimation-and-story-points/ "In the Sprint Planning Meeting, the team sits down to estimate its effort for the stories in the backlog. The Product Owner needs these estimates, so that he or she is empowered to effectively prioritize items in the backlog and, as a result, forecast releases based on velocity the team's velocity. This means the Product Owner needs an honest appraisal of how difficult work will be. Thus it is recommended that the Product Owner does not observe the estimation process to avoid pressuring (intentionally or otherwise) a team to reduce its effort estimates and take on more work. Even when the team estimates amongst itself, actions should be taken to reduce influencing how a team estimates. As such, it is recommended that all team members disclose their estimates simultaneously." SCRUM Meetings http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-meetings/ "At this point, the Product Owner is typically asked to leave while the team decomposes the sprint backlog items into tasks. While the Product Owner is asked to leave so that the team can candidly discuss the work, he or she is still expected to be "on call" to answer questions, clarify acceptance criteria, or renegotiate. This meeting, which was previously called the sprint definition meeting, is also time-boxed to four hours to limit all sprint planning activities to a single day's time." SCRUM Impediment http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-impediments/ SCRUM Product Owner http://scrummethodology.com/scrum-product-owner/ The ScrumMaster Role http://scrummethodology.com/the-scrummaster-role/ -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:41:31 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET Product BackLogPlanningGame... > Hello Shamil, > I have one or two questions on scrum techniques. > > In the estimates, the product owner has to make some judgement calls on > which items to drop, and which items to include. Or let me phrase that > better, the product owner has to prioritise his importance of the items, in > the hope that he receives all, but if he does not, then he must decide which > items to exclude. > > Background of question first > My personal instinct, and the behavior of most people I know will be to seek > some additional information from the 'supplier' as to why feature a takes > one hour and feature b takes 5 hours. I would expect that most people > would assume that this background information assists them in their decision > process, as they are making it from a position of knowledge. Also, as a > product owner in this case, I imagine that there is a certain element of > risk / gambling on the product owners behalf, i.e. do I place this feature > (a 5 hour estimate) at the top of the list, and guarantee its delivery, or > do I drop it down the list, and guarantee five other (1 hour) features. My > instinct at this point is that most people will desire a little background > on the justifications for why one item is one hour and one item is five > hours. > > > Now the question to our ScrumMaster > In this new world, is the above appropriate thinking on behalf of the > product owner. Do I / should I re-program my brain to accept blindly the > estimates and focus only on what is important as a delivered feature and NOT > on why feature A takes five times the time to produce feature B. If I take > this blind leap of faith, will I eventually produce more accurate views on > what is important to my business? i.e. should the product owner keep their > nose out of the programmers area and stick to being product owner. > > > Question 2 > In a larger project than this one, but even in this small project there are > synergies, IOW, the work to produce the suppliers form, may be identical to > the work to produce the categories form. Should the product owner know > there there is some virtual grouping here? Or once again, should he keep > his dirty nose out of these types of concepts. I think you answer will be > yes, he should keep his nose out and leave that to the scrum team. > > Question 3 > When are we ready for me to prioritise the list > > > > > < snip> From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 20 10:17:18 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:17:18 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?UmUgU0NSVU0gUHJvamVjdCBCYWNrbG9n?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Doug, No, we're keeping SCRUM related discussion in dba-Vb with "SCRUM" keyword in the subject line to tune e-mail filtering to a special mailbox on our mail clients... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Doug Murphy" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:01:47 -0700 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Re SCRUM Project Backlog > > Has it been decided to move this back to AccessD? I have seen a lot of > traffic on this subject on that list. I need to filter these messages to a > specific folder so I don't loose them. When there is a lot of traffic on the > D list I tend to group and do bulk deletes on items. > > Doug > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 20 11:07:52 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:07:52 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET ProductBackLogPlanningGame... References: <49C2A56C.4020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mark, I hadn't looked into the nature of your role. Thanks for asking these weighty questions, the more the better. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Breen" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 5:41 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [AccessD] SCRUM: Northwind .NET ProductBackLogPlanningGame... > Hello Shamil, > I have one or two questions on scrum techniques. > > In the estimates, the product owner has to make some judgement calls on > which items to drop, and which items to include. Or let me phrase that > better, the product owner has to prioritise his importance of the items, > in > the hope that he receives all, but if he does not, then he must decide > which > items to exclude. > > Background of question first > My personal instinct, and the behavior of most people I know will be to > seek > some additional information from the 'supplier' as to why feature a takes > one hour and feature b takes 5 hours. I would expect that most people > would assume that this background information assists them in their > decision > process, as they are making it from a position of knowledge. Also, as a > product owner in this case, I imagine that there is a certain element of > risk / gambling on the product owners behalf, i.e. do I place this feature > (a 5 hour estimate) at the top of the list, and guarantee its delivery, or > do I drop it down the list, and guarantee five other (1 hour) features. > My > instinct at this point is that most people will desire a little background > on the justifications for why one item is one hour and one item is five > hours. > > > Now the question to our ScrumMaster > In this new world, is the above appropriate thinking on behalf of the > product owner. Do I / should I re-program my brain to accept blindly the > estimates and focus only on what is important as a delivered feature and > NOT > on why feature A takes five times the time to produce feature B. If I > take > this blind leap of faith, will I eventually produce more accurate views on > what is important to my business? i.e. should the product owner keep > their > nose out of the programmers area and stick to being product owner. > > > Question 2 > In a larger project than this one, but even in this small project there > are > synergies, IOW, the work to produce the suppliers form, may be identical > to > the work to produce the categories form. Should the product owner know > there there is some virtual grouping here? Or once again, should he keep > his dirty nose out of these types of concepts. I think you answer will be > yes, he should keep his nose out and leave that to the scrum team. > > Question 3 > When are we ready for me to prioritise the list From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 23 13:49:19 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and All, Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to start with. I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the files from there. I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the source files there, and then see how it will work with check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and then publish the new solution with all updates.) Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the coming months. To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do you need some more input from us to make this To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess (http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process tracing/management tool+ Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive Documents NorthWind.NET DataBase NorthwindNET.mdf NorthwindNET_log.ldf NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip 2. NET Winforms solution to start with MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive Documents NorthWind.NET Conversion Project Northwind.NET_20090323.zip From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 23 13:54:47 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line wraps): 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database NorthwindNET.mdf NorthwindNET_log.ldf NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip 2. NET Winforms solution to start with https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project Northwind.NET_20090323.zip -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to start with. > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the files from there. > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the source files there, and then see how it will work with check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the coming months. > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do you need some more input from us to make this > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess (http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process tracing/management tool+ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > MS Live dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > DataBase > NorthwindNET.mdf > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > MS Live dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Mar 23 15:14:34 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:14:34 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM team at all, I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: - Tortoise SVN http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ Everything worked smoothly. Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within Visual Studio. Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line wraps): > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > NorthwindNET.mdf > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to start with. > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the files from there. > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the source files there, and then see how it will work with check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the coming months. > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do you need some more input from us to make this > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess (http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process tracing/management tool+ > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > SkyDrive > > Documents > > NorthWind.NET > > DataBase > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > SkyDrive > > Documents > > NorthWind.NET > > Conversion Project > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 23 15:19:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:19:58 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project References: Message-ID: <09982C6AF9724D808153FC94C44D53E6@Mattys> Hi Shamil, Thanks! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > wraps): From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon Mar 23 18:02:22 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:02:22 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Group, I have updated the Excel sheet that contains the estimates to include the product owners choices. Based on my selections, you appears to need 39 units of work out of the total 87 units for work estimated. I hope that I understand this all correctly and that I have made appropriate selections. I tried to select simple forms initially, but as Shamil has suggested that we do approx 40 units in the first week, I had to include almost all the forms. I do hope that is OK. To pad the numbers, I include a few reports also, again, I hope that it is OK that I have given so much work in the first phase. Shamil, if I have something wrong here, please let me know, so that I can update / correct my selections. In our source code repository, I have created a new folder named documents, and placed the newest file in there. I hope it will download for you all. Let me know if you cannot connect to it. For those that are observing the project from a distance, I have uploaded the spreadsheet here also to the skydrive account. If anyone wants to email me, I can also directly forward them the doc. https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1 FYI, when I click my folder here on my laptop and right clicked and selected SVN Update, I immediately got the latest files from Shamil including all source code. When you do the same, you will get his files and also my new version of the excel doc. Not only that, but we can all see that we are now on version 8 of the source code, I did the first few, and it looks like Shamil did about five updates today, I hope this logging is useful to the team. Any questions, just ask. Shamil, if I am not behaving as ideal product owner, please steer me in the right direction. thanks all, Mark 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > - Tortoise SVN > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > Everything worked smoothly. > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > Visual Studio. > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > wraps): > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: dba-VB > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > start with. > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > files from there. > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > source files there, and then see how it will work with > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > coming months. > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > DataBase > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > Conversion Project > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon Mar 23 18:16:19 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:16:19 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Scrum Team, I will just add here additional comment. As you can see, Shamil has highlighted that you can purchase a Visual Studio integrated tool for subversion. but let me just note that you do not need to use this integrated tool. You can get started with what we have here, for free, if you enjoy working with the source code control, then you can always spend money to make it even more streamlined, but until you try out the concept, you do not need to spend anything. Just my short note. Remember, with SCCS (Source Code Control Software), you can always retreive a revision from six revisions ago, imagine being able to go back and get the code you had last sat between 16:00 and 18:00. One final note, just in case the obvious is not so obvious, you can also use SCCS to store recipies for cookies, or your latest business plan, or the packing list for the holidays, or you entire my documents directory. IOW, SCCS, does not have to be just a programmers tool. But please do not upload you entire my docs to this server :) thanks Mark 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > - Tortoise SVN > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > Everything worked smoothly. > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > Visual Studio. > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > wraps): > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: dba-VB > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > start with. > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > files from there. > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > source files there, and then see how it will work with > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > coming months. > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > DataBase > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > SkyDrive > > > Documents > > > NorthWind.NET > > > Conversion Project > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 04:51:49 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:51:49 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark and SCRUM team, I just noted that I used Visual SVN trial version because I liked it. I will probably purchase it, not sure yet but it definitely saves some time comparing to command line/Tortoise SVN. But I'm probably currently, while establishing development infrastrcuture, committing new sources too often - if committing them one time a day then command line/Torsoise SVN should be good enough. BTW, AFAIK commiting via command line can be automated using windows batch files IOW it can be "one-click" activity. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:16:19 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hello Scrum Team, > > I will just add here additional comment. As you can see, Shamil has > highlighted that you can purchase a Visual Studio integrated tool for > subversion. but let me just note that you do not need to use this > integrated tool. > You can get started with what we have here, for free, if you enjoy working > with the source code control, then you can always spend money to make it > even more streamlined, but until you try out the concept, you do not need to > spend anything. > > Just my short note. > > Remember, with SCCS (Source Code Control Software), you can always retreive > a revision from six revisions ago, imagine being able to go back and get the > code you had last sat between 16:00 and 18:00. > > One final note, just in case the obvious is not so obvious, you can also use > SCCS to store recipies for cookies, or your latest business plan, or the > packing list for the holidays, or you entire my documents directory. IOW, > SCCS, does not have to be just a programmers tool. But please do not upload > you entire my docs to this server :) > > thanks > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > > > - Tortoise SVN > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > > > Everything worked smoothly. > > > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > > Visual Studio. > > > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > > wraps): > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > To: dba-VB > > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > > start with. > > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > > files from there. > > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > > source files there, and then see how it will work with > > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > > coming months. > > > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > DataBase > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > Conversion Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 05:16:36 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:16:36 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. <<< if I am not behaving as ideal product owner >>> We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. :) Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely 'DONE'. I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: - customers 2 - products 3 - suppliers 2 ----------------------- - employees 3 - orders 3 with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - and then we will be OK with our progress... Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: ===================================================== Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== it it's fixed now by adding: GC.Collect(); System.Environment.Exit(0); to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:02:22 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hello Group, > I have updated the Excel sheet that contains the estimates to include the > product owners choices. Based on my selections, you appears to need 39 > units of work out of the total 87 units for work estimated. I hope that I > understand this all correctly and that I have made appropriate selections. > > I tried to select simple forms initially, but as Shamil has suggested that > we do approx 40 units in the first week, I had to include almost all the > forms. I do hope that is OK. To pad the numbers, I include a few reports > also, again, I hope that it is OK that I have given so much work in the > first phase. > > Shamil, if I have something wrong here, please let me know, so that I can > update / correct my selections. > > In our source code repository, I have created a new folder named documents, > and placed the newest file in there. I hope it will download for you all. > Let me know if you cannot connect to it. > > For those that are observing the project from a distance, I have uploaded > the spreadsheet here also to the skydrive account. If anyone wants to email > me, I can also directly forward them the doc. > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/ProductBackLog?uc=1 > > > FYI, when I click my folder here on my laptop and right clicked and selected > SVN Update, I immediately got the latest files from Shamil including all > source code. When you do the same, you will get his files and also my new > version of the excel doc. Not only that, but we can all see that we are now > on version 8 of the source code, I did the first few, and it looks like > Shamil did about five updates today, I hope this logging is useful to the > team. > > Any questions, just ask. Shamil, if I am not behaving as ideal product > owner, please steer me in the right direction. > > thanks all, > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/23 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Hi SCRUM team at all, > > > > I have got put source files on Mark.s Visual SVN server - I used: > > > > - Tortoise SVN > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/download/tortoisesvn/ > > > > - Visual SVN (30 days trial - per seat license cost is $49) > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/ > > > > Everything worked smoothly. > > > > Please try to get the files from SVN server using SVN command line utility > > as was shown in Mark's sample or using Visual SVN directly from within > > Visual Studio. > > > > Visual SVN short but good enough "how to" is here: > > > > http://www.visualsvn.com/visualsvn/doc/getting-started/ > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues."< > > dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com> > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:47 +0300 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > > FYI: URLs of MS Live dba-VB folders with published files (watch line > > wraps): > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database > > > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Conversion%20Project > > > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > To: dba-VB > > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:49:19 +0300 > > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > > > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > > > Sorry for my being a bit quiet during last days - that was a release of > > one rather advanced C# project I was heavily bound to. It's completed now. > > > > > > > > I have got prepared our project database and a C# 2008 solution to > > start with. > > > > I have put them to MS Live dba-VB (see below) - please try to get the > > files from there. > > > > I will try now to connect to Mark's server, and to get uploaded all the > > source files there, and then see how it will work with > > check-out/edit/check-in - if/when all that work OK we will have source code > > control environment tested and ready to use, or is it ready OK, Mark, and I > > just should follow your instructions you posted here last week? (if > > something will not work somehow we can start our development anyway - I can > > keep getting developed source files, put them into solution manually and > > then publish the new solution with all updates.) > > > > > > > > Meanwhile please spend your working hour for today by downloading the > > database and solution, setting them on your systems and playing with them a > > little, and posting your questions here - this current solution is supposed > > to be a base for all the other forms/reports we will develop during the > > coming months. > > > > > > > > To Mark: we (SCRUM Team) are waiting for first SCRUM Sprint (~40hours) > > items to be developed for us to start actual development of this project. Do > > you need some more input from us to make this > > > > > > > > To all the members of SCRUM team: do you think we can start > > developing/designing first set of forms and reports tomorrow? > > > > > > > > Last note: I plan to setup TargetProcess ( > > http://www.targetprocess.com/) tomorrow for us to use this SCRUM process > > tracing/management tool+ > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > P.S. Files are currently uploaded here on MS Live: > > > > > > > > 1. Database to attach and its current backup to restore db from > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > DataBase > > > > NorthwindNET.mdf > > > > NorthwindNET_log.ldf > > > > NorthWindNET_DB_BackUp_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > 2. NET Winforms solution to start with > > > > > > > > MS Live dba-VB > > > > SkyDrive > > > > Documents > > > > NorthWind.NET > > > > Conversion Project > > > > Northwind.NET_20090323.zip > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 24 05:31:12 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:31:12 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project Message-ID: Hi Shamil > (OK Gustav?) That is OK. Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine today. Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-03-2009 11:16 >>> Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. <<< if I am not behaving as ideal product owner >>> We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. :) Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely 'DONE'. I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: - customers 2 - products 3 - suppliers 2 ----------------------- - employees 3 - orders 3 with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - and then we will be OK with our progress... Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: ===================================================== Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== it it's fixed now by adding: GC.Collect(); System.Environment.Exit(0); to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 05:50:21 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:50:21 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZCBDb252ZXJzaW9uIFByb2pl?= =?koi8-r?b?Y3Q=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Gustav. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:31:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project > Hi Shamil > > > (OK Gustav?) > That is OK. > > Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine today. > Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-03-2009 11:16 >>> > Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, > > Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. > > <<< > if I am not behaving as ideal product owner > >>> > We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. :) > > Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: > > dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project > > Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely 'DONE'. > > I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: > > - customers 2 > - products 3 > - suppliers 2 > ----------------------- > - employees 3 > - orders 3 > > with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - and then we will be OK with our progress... > > Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. > > If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: > > ===================================================== > Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings > C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. > Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. > ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== > > it it's fixed now by adding: > > GC.Collect(); > System.Environment.Exit(0); > > to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marklbreen at gmail.com Tue Mar 24 05:54:03 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:54:03 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello All, >Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. As always in my live, I feel guilty for not being detailed / thorough enough. Does anyone here in this list ever feel that they contribute enough to their customer / family / supplier / community / mailing list of choice. I certainly never feel I do. Gustav, If I understand your email below correctly, you have successfully installed a SVN server and are able to use is with a client to check in and out code locally for yourself. If this is what you did, then you did it the same as me, then I just created a second server on a machine that is currently in a data centre with a good connection. Glad to here is went well for you, I have to admit that I spent not much more than 60 minutes on this SCCS stuff. But I also have to admint that I find is appealing - not sure why. Mark 2009/3/24 Gustav Brock > Hi Shamil > > > (OK Gustav?) > That is OK. > > Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to > set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine > today. > Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-03-2009 11:16 >>> > Hello Mark and SCRUM Team, > > Thank you Mark for updated ProductBacklog. > > <<< > if I am not behaving as ideal product owner > >>> > We're not looking for an ideal ProductOwner - just for a perfect one :) And > you're perfect currently in this role. I suppose the SCRUM team will agree. > :) > > Based on your SCRUM Sprint planning I have made first form CategoriesForm, > SwitchBoard form was done yesterday - so far I have got 5 hours plan for > this week fulfilled with quite some time left. And I plan to spend that time > to answer the questions/make "How Tos" to help SCRUM team members starting > their .NET Framework development practice. Please ask your questions, any > questions, plase question everything I have done so far in the current > version of our solution, which is currently committed to our SVN server, and > also zipped and uploaded to MS Live dba-VB SkyDrive folder: > > dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project > > Note: I didn't try to make the currently committed designs/code perfect - > just good enough for our ProductOwner to test, and accept or reject 'DONE' > status with comments/remarks what to do additionally to have them definitely > 'DONE'. > > I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: > > - customers 2 > - products 3 > - suppliers 2 > ----------------------- > - employees 3 > - orders 3 > > with first three being relatively simple and therefore being the best > candidates to be developed by SCRUM team members starting with .NET and the > last two ones being more complicated - I'd propose select one of them to be > developed by Gustav (OK Gustav?), and I will make another one within this > week. We will probably do some more forms done/started during this week - > and then we will be OK with our progress... > > Note: I have moved XL product backlog/planning workbook into \!Documents > subfolder of \Northwind.NET.FE folder/project because having it under the > root folder was somehow not good for Visual Studio. > > If you tried to build and run yesterday version you could have had the > following message in the Output window of Visual Studio: > > ===================================================== > Compile complete -- 0 errors, 0 warnings > C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v3.5\Microsoft.Common.targets(2525,9): > error MSB3021: Unable to copy file "obj\Debug\Northwind.NET.FE.exe" to > "..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe". The process cannot access the file > '..\Bin\Northwind.NET.FE.exe' because it is being used by another process. > Done building project "Northwind.NET.FE.csproj" -- FAILED. > ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== > > it it's fixed now by adding: > > GC.Collect(); > System.Environment.Exit(0); > > to FormClosed event of SwitchBoard form. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 06:01:27 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:01:27 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team, Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - this is just a plan: DONE - 2 - Categories TODO - 2 - Customer Orders TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 TODO - 2 - Customers TODO - 3 - Employees DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard TODO - 3 - Orders TODO - 1 - Orders Subform DONE - 1 - Product List TODO - 2 - Products TODO - 1 - StartUp TODO - 2 - Suppliers ========================== TOTAL: 23 I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start working on the following forms first of all: - customers 2 - products 3 - suppliers 2 ----------------------- - employees 3 - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? Then I will do another one.) Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get selected to develop. Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 24 06:21:45 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:21:45 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind Conversion Project Message-ID: Hi Mark No server at me. I installed the Tortoise SVN client and connected successfully to the server you so kindly have provided using the credentials you posted. Then I synced and received a bunch of folders (for SVN I guess) and one readme file, but no project files - will have to look into that later. I also installed the trial of the visual client for VS, and if that works well I plan to spend the few bucks for it and install my own SVN server. /gustav >>> marklbreen at gmail.com 24-03-2009 11:54 >>> Hello All, >Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. As always in my live, I feel guilty for not being detailed / thorough enough. Does anyone here in this list ever feel that they contribute enough to their customer / family / supplier / community / mailing list of choice. I certainly never feel I do. Gustav, If I understand your email below correctly, you have successfully installed a SVN server and are able to use is with a client to check in and out code locally for yourself. If this is what you did, then you did it the same as me, then I just created a second server on a machine that is currently in a data centre with a good connection. Glad to here is went well for you, I have to admit that I spent not much more than 60 minutes on this SCCS stuff. But I also have to admint that I find is appealing - not sure why. Mark 2009/3/24 Gustav Brock > Hi Shamil > > > (OK Gustav?) > That is OK. > > Sorry for not being so present but real work is pressing. I've managed to > set up SVN on my home machine and will try to put it on my office machine > today. > Thanks to Mark for being so detailed. > > /gustav From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 24 10:34:26 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: Message-ID: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more straight-forward maybe) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > Hi SCRUM Team, > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - > this is just a plan: > > DONE - 2 - Categories > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > TODO - 2 - Customers > TODO - 3 - Employees > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > TODO - 3 - Orders > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > DONE - 1 - Product List > TODO - 2 - Products > TODO - 1 - StartUp > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > ========================== > TOTAL: 23 > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start working > on the following forms first of all: > > - customers 2 > - products 3 > - suppliers 2 > ----------------------- > - employees 3 > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav you > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? > Then I will do another one.) > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted todo - > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just get > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get > selected to develop. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 12:16:29 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 20:16:29 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike and SCRUM team, Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. The three forms: - products; - suppliers and - customers are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. We with Gustav will develop - employees and - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms using our sample solution. I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > straight-forward maybe) > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - > > this is just a plan: > > > > DONE - 2 - Categories > > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > > TODO - 2 - Customers > > TODO - 3 - Employees > > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > > TODO - 3 - Orders > > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > > DONE - 1 - Product List > > TODO - 2 - Products > > TODO - 1 - StartUp > > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > > ========================== > > TOTAL: 23 > > > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start working > > on the following forms first of all: > > > > - customers 2 > > - products 3 > > - suppliers 2 > > ----------------------- > > - employees 3 > > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav you > > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? > > Then I will do another one.) > > > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted todo - > > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one > > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just get > > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do > > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get > > selected to develop. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 24 12:39:39 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:39:39 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> Message-ID: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> OK, Shamil. I choose Suppliers. I was reading/trying to follow Walkthrough: Displaying Data on a Form in a Windows Application A little lost on adding TableAdapters, but learning. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > The three forms: > > - products; > - suppliers and > - customers > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > We with Gustav will develop > > - employees and > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one > of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > using our sample solution. > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more >> straight-forward maybe) >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> > >> > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - >> > this is just a plan: >> > >> > DONE - 2 - Categories >> > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 >> > TODO - 2 - Customers >> > TODO - 3 - Employees >> > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard >> > TODO - 3 - Orders >> > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform >> > DONE - 1 - Product List >> > TODO - 2 - Products >> > TODO - 1 - StartUp >> > TODO - 2 - Suppliers >> > ========================== >> > TOTAL: 23 >> > >> > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start >> > working >> > on the following forms first of all: >> > >> > - customers 2 >> > - products 3 >> > - suppliers 2 >> > ----------------------- >> > - employees 3 >> > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) >> > >> > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav >> > you >> > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which >> > one? >> > Then I will do another one.) >> > >> > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them >> > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted >> > todo - >> > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one >> > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just >> > get >> > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do >> > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get >> > selected to develop. >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue Mar 24 14:40:11 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:40:11 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan In-Reply-To: References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> Message-ID: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but want to try and keep up with you guys. Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. Doug -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM To: dba-VB Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan Hi Mike and SCRUM team, Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. The three forms: - products; - suppliers and - customers are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. We with Gustav will develop - employees and - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms using our sample solution. I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > straight-forward maybe) > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be > > fulfilled) - this is just a plan: > > > > DONE - 2 - Categories > > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > > TODO - 2 - Customers > > TODO - 3 - Employees > > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > > TODO - 3 - Orders > > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > > DONE - 1 - Product List > > TODO - 2 - Products > > TODO - 1 - StartUp > > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > > ========================== > > TOTAL: 23 > > > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > > working on the following forms first of all: > > > > - customers 2 > > - products 3 > > - suppliers 2 > > ----------------------- > > - employees 3 > > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav > > (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which one? > > Then I will do another one.) > > > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > > todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, > > second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last > > one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the > > same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the > > form name you will get selected to develop. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 24 14:48:17 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:48:17 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan In-Reply-To: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> References: <64659E1C0A714DBDAA42C370213C9AFB@Mattys> <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> Message-ID: <49C93901.2030204@colbyconsulting.com> I guess I am taking customers? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Doug Murphy wrote: > OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but > want to try and keep up with you guys. > > Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM > To: dba-VB > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > The three forms: > > - products; > - suppliers and > - customers > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > We with Gustav will develop > > - employees and > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of > the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > using our sample solution. > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more >> straight-forward maybe) >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >>> Hi SCRUM Team, >>> >>> Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be >>> fulfilled) - this is just a plan: >>> >>> DONE - 2 - Categories >>> TODO - 2 - Customer Orders >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 >>> TODO - 2 - Customers >>> TODO - 3 - Employees >>> DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard >>> TODO - 3 - Orders >>> TODO - 1 - Orders Subform >>> DONE - 1 - Product List >>> TODO - 2 - Products >>> TODO - 1 - StartUp >>> TODO - 2 - Suppliers >>> ========================== >>> TOTAL: 23 >>> >>> I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start >>> working on the following forms first of all: >>> >>> - customers 2 >>> - products 3 >>> - suppliers 2 >>> ----------------------- >>> - employees 3 >>> - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) >>> >>> with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav >>> (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you > - which one? >>> Then I will do another one.) >>> >>> Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them >>> developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted >>> todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, >>> second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last >>> one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the >>> same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the >>> form name you will get selected to develop. >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-VB mailing list >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 24 15:08:22 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:08:22 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM - Source code control Message-ID: <49C93DB6.6050701@colbyconsulting.com> Mark sent an email about his setting up a source code server but I cannot for the life of me find it. It told where to go to download the SCC software, how to connect to the server instance etc. If someone could please forward that to me with SCRUM - SCC in the subject that would be great. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:32:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:32:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gLSBTb3VyY2UgY29kZSBjb250cm9s?= In-Reply-To: <49C93DB6.6050701@colbyconsulting.com> References: <49C93DB6.6050701@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John, Forwarded. On MS Live dba-vb group Favorites there are links for Tortoise SVN and Visual SVN. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: VBA Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:08:22 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM - Source code control > Mark sent an email about his setting up a source code server but I cannot for the life of me find > it. It told where to go to download the SCC software, how to connect to the server instance etc. > If someone could please forward that to me with SCRUM - SCC in the subject that would be great. > > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:34:40 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:34:40 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <49C93901.2030204@colbyconsulting.com> References: <49C93901.2030204@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Yes, John, Mike selected Suppliers form, Doug selected Products form and you have got Customers form Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:48:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > I guess I am taking customers? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Doug Murphy wrote: > > OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but > > want to try and keep up with you guys. > > > > Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. > > > > Doug > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > > Shamil > > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM > > To: dba-VB > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > > The three forms: > > > > - products; > > - suppliers and > > - customers > > > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > > > We with Gustav will develop > > > > - employees and > > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of > > the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > > using our sample solution. > > > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > >> straight-forward maybe) > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "dba-VB" > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> > >> > >>> Hi SCRUM Team, > >>> > >>> Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be > >>> fulfilled) - this is just a plan: > >>> > >>> DONE - 2 - Categories > >>> TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > >>> TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > >>> TODO - 2 - Customers > >>> TODO - 3 - Employees > >>> DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > >>> TODO - 3 - Orders > >>> TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > >>> DONE - 1 - Product List > >>> TODO - 2 - Products > >>> TODO - 1 - StartUp > >>> TODO - 2 - Suppliers > >>> ========================== > >>> TOTAL: 23 > >>> > >>> I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > >>> working on the following forms first of all: > >>> > >>> - customers 2 > >>> - products 3 > >>> - suppliers 2 > >>> ----------------------- > >>> - employees 3 > >>> - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > >>> > >>> with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav > >>> (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you > > - which one? > >>> Then I will do another one.) > >>> > >>> Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > >>> developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > >>> todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, > >>> second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last > >>> one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the > >>> same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the > >>> form name you will get selected to develop. > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Shamil > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> dba-VB mailing list > >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>> > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:35:23 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:35:23 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> References: <94028F4024A6454DABD7314BC19128DB@murphy3234aaf1> Message-ID: OK, Doug. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Doug Murphy" To: "'Salakhetdinov Shamil'" ,"'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:40:11 -0700 Subject: RE: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > OK, I'll take products. Have a project to get done by tomorrow night but > want to try and keep up with you guys. > > Thanks for all the work Shamil and Mark. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:16 AM > To: dba-VB > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > The three forms: > > - products; > - suppliers and > - customers > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > We with Gustav will develop > > - employees and > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one of > the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > using our sample solution. > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > > I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > > straight-forward maybe) > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > > To: "dba-VB" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team, > > > > > > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be > > > fulfilled) - this is just a plan: > > > > > > DONE - 2 - Categories > > > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > > > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > > > TODO - 2 - Customers > > > TODO - 3 - Employees > > > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > > > TODO - 3 - Orders > > > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > > > DONE - 1 - Product List > > > TODO - 2 - Products > > > TODO - 1 - StartUp > > > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > > > ========================== > > > TOTAL: 23 > > > > > > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > > > working on the following forms first of all: > > > > > > - customers 2 > > > - products 3 > > > - suppliers 2 > > > ----------------------- > > > - employees 3 > > > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > > > > > > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav > > > (Gustav you approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you > - which one? > > > Then I will do another one.) > > > > > > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > > > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > > > todo - first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, > > > second one arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last > > > one will just get selected last left form. But they are almost the > > > same in work to do involved. Please post your note here with the > > > form name you will get selected to develop. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 15:45:23 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:45:23 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> References: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> Message-ID: OK, Mike, In fact you do not need to do that much work to make your form because the current NorthwindNET.sln solution is prepared to make it playfully almost only by using mouse: I'm about to publish a short HowTo clip for everybofy to look at it first of all (2 minutes 10 seconds). I'm sorry I haven't published it yet but it takes much more time to make that movie clip that to develop the forms I made today. (Unfortunately I do not have Camtasia Studio or somethingv like that and I have to get screenshots and then put them into MS Movies Maker and then add some comments... The resoluton of movie frames would be not very good to save some space (this is automatic MS Movie makers feature). I also plan to publoish source screenshots with good quality. Stay tuned.. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:39:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > OK, Shamil. I choose Suppliers. > > I was reading/trying to follow > Walkthrough: Displaying Data on a Form in a Windows Application > > A little lost on adding TableAdapters, but learning. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:16 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, > > > > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. > > The three forms: > > > > - products; > > - suppliers and > > - customers > > > > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of you. > > > > We with Gustav will develop > > > > - employees and > > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will > > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. > > > > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any one > > of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. > > > > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make forms > > using our sample solution. > > > > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > > Basic and related programming issues." > > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > > > >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed > >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more > >> straight-forward maybe) > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > >> To: "dba-VB" > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM > >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> > >> > >> > Hi SCRUM Team, > >> > > >> > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be fulfilled) - > >> > this is just a plan: > >> > > >> > DONE - 2 - Categories > >> > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders > >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 > >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 > >> > TODO - 2 - Customers > >> > TODO - 3 - Employees > >> > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard > >> > TODO - 3 - Orders > >> > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform > >> > DONE - 1 - Product List > >> > TODO - 2 - Products > >> > TODO - 1 - StartUp > >> > TODO - 2 - Suppliers > >> > ========================== > >> > TOTAL: 23 > >> > > >> > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start > >> > working > >> > on the following forms first of all: > >> > > >> > - customers 2 > >> > - products 3 > >> > - suppliers 2 > >> > ----------------------- > >> > - employees 3 > >> > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) > >> > > >> > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav (Gustav > >> > you > >> > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which > >> > one? > >> > Then I will do another one.) > >> > > >> > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them > >> > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted > >> > todo - > >> > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one > >> > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will just > >> > get > >> > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do > >> > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get > >> > selected to develop. > >> > > >> > Thank you. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Shamil > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 24 16:09:10 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:09:10 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: <326F37D5648B45FEA5CDC37E36757163@Mattys> Message-ID: <7F1BF6F9C5244626A700BDF2021231EE@Mattys> Shamil, you did a lot of work. I did dig into things a little and changed the SQL Server connection to Path\dbo.mdf and everything worked fine. However, I don't yet comprehend the source control and wasn't sure what to do once I saved it and someone asked, "Well, where is it?" - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > OK, Mike, > > In fact you do not need to do that much work to make your form because the > current NorthwindNET.sln solution is prepared to make it playfully almost > only by using mouse: I'm about to publish a short HowTo clip for everybofy > to look at it first of all (2 minutes 10 seconds). > > I'm sorry I haven't published it yet but it takes much more time to make > that movie clip that to develop the forms I made today. (Unfortunately I > do not have Camtasia Studio or somethingv like that and I have to get > screenshots and then put them into MS Movies Maker and then add some > comments... > > The resoluton of movie frames would be not very good to save some space > (this is automatic MS Movie makers feature). I also plan to publoish > source screenshots with good quality. > > Stay tuned.. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:39:39 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan > >> OK, Shamil. I choose Suppliers. >> >> I was reading/trying to follow >> Walkthrough: Displaying Data on a Form in a Windows Application >> >> A little lost on adding TableAdapters, but learning. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "dba-VB" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >> > Hi Mike and SCRUM team, >> > >> > Please select one form only - Products or Suppliers. >> > The three forms: >> > >> > - products; >> > - suppliers and >> > - customers >> > >> > are for you, Doug and John to start with - one form for each one of >> > you. >> > >> > We with Gustav will develop >> > >> > - employees and >> > - orders (+ orders subform ) forms. Gustav will select the one he will >> > prefer to do, and then I will pick the other. >> > >> > After you, Doug and Jonh ready with the first form you can choose any >> > one >> > of the rest to develop within the first SCRUM sprint etc. >> > >> > I will now try to prepare and publish a short tutorial how to make >> > forms >> > using our sample solution. >> > >> > I will leave TargetProcess setup for tomorrow. >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: "Mike Mattys" >> > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning >> > Visual >> > Basic and related programming issues." >> > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:34:26 -0400 >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> > >> >> I'm trying to get to this - got Toroise, then Visual SVN installed >> >> I'll see if I can do, eh, Products and Suppliers (seem to be more >> >> straight-forward maybe) >> >> - >> >> Michael R Mattys >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> - >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> >> To: "dba-VB" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:01 AM >> >> Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi SCRUM Team, >> >> > >> >> > Here is the first week plan (no problem if it will nopt be >> >> > fulfilled) - >> >> > this is just a plan: >> >> > >> >> > DONE - 2 - Categories >> >> > TODO - 2 - Customer Orders >> >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform1 >> >> > TODO - 1 - Customer Orders Subform2 >> >> > TODO - 2 - Customers >> >> > TODO - 3 - Employees >> >> > DONE - 2 - Main Switchboard >> >> > TODO - 3 - Orders >> >> > TODO - 1 - Orders Subform >> >> > DONE - 1 - Product List >> >> > TODO - 2 - Products >> >> > TODO - 1 - StartUp >> >> > TODO - 2 - Suppliers >> >> > ========================== >> >> > TOTAL: 23 >> >> > >> >> > I'm repeating here my previous e-mail note - I'd propose to start >> >> > working >> >> > on the following forms first of all: >> >> > >> >> > - customers 2 >> >> > - products 3 >> >> > - suppliers 2 >> >> > ----------------------- >> >> > - employees 3 >> >> > - orders 3 (+ orders subform - 1) >> >> > >> >> > with the ones from the bottom of the list developed by Gustav >> >> > (Gustav >> >> > you >> >> > approved you will do that but which one I forgot to ask you - which >> >> > one? >> >> > Then I will do another one.) >> >> > >> >> > Please Mike, Doug and John select one the first three to get them >> >> > developed - I'd think you can just try to select the one you wanted >> >> > todo - >> >> > first arrived will have one of the three to choose from, second one >> >> > arrived will have to select one of the two, and the last one will >> >> > just >> >> > get >> >> > selected last left form. But they are almost the same in work to do >> >> > involved. Please post your note here with the form name you will get >> >> > selected to develop. >> >> > >> >> > Thank you. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Shamil >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > dba-VB mailing list >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Mar 24 16:27:17 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:27:17 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEhvd1RvczogVmlkZW8gQ2xpcC9TY3JlZW5z?= =?koi8-r?b?aG90cyAtIEhvdyB0byBNYWtlIGEgQm91bmQgLk5FVCBXaW5Gb3Jt?= =?koi8-r?b?IHdpdGggU3ViRm9ybS4uLg==?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx the subject HowTos: 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data tables and relationships... I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good when using streaming video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - yes, it's :) Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development environment - correct? :) As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the end of the project when/if we will have some time left... Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a good day and happy .NET WinForms design! From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 24 16:57:48 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:57:48 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How about sharing with the rest of us, Shamil? I clicked the link, but didn't see anything. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:27 PM To: dba-VB Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx the subject HowTos: 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data tables and relationships... I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good when using streaming video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - yes, it's :) Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development environment - correct? :) As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the end of the project when/if we will have some time left... Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a good day and happy .NET WinForms design! _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 12:18:18 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:18:18 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFNwcmludCAtIDFzdCB3ZWVrIHBsYW4=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. New version is uploaded to dba-VB > SkyDrive > Documents > NorthWind.NET > Conversion Project and also commited to our SVN server. This version uses new view. This view SQL script is stored in: >Northwind.NET.FE >Datasets >SQL 0001_vw_CustomerOrdersProducts.sql (TODO Note: we have to decide what is the best way for us to keep our MS SQL databases in sync without that much manual work of running SQL scripts to create new SQL objects). Please run this SQL against your version of MS SQL database. FYI: trying to use as little as possible new SQL Views etc. but for this form that was the quickest solution in my opinion, and a solution not using embedded into C# code SQL. I have also created new dataset dedicated to this form - CustomerOrdersFormDataSet. Trying to do the things done first, and then (in the next version) to do them right (industry strong) - this approach usually works well in .NET - unlike VB6/VBA where usage of this approach often results in unmanagable code... Please question everything you're getting from here but please stay focused on getting converted NorthWind.NET desktop WinForm application first of all... Thank you. -- Shamil From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 14:46:41 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:46:41 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: Message-ID: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Shamil, I built everything from the video, but one thing I don't get: For some reason you are able to simply put "Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;" where I require a path to the mdf - why does that happen? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums > > http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx > > the subject HowTos: > > 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > > This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound > .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data > tables and relationships... > > I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good > when using streaming video: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic > > you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. > > I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - > yes, it's :) > > Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd > suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the > more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working > smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET > development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development > environment - correct? :) > > As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every > step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to > discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the > end of the project when/if we will have some time left... > > Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner > acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a > good day and happy .NET WinForms design! > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 15:05:59 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:05:59 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEhvd1RvczogVmlkZW8gQ2xpcC9TY3JlZW5z?= =?koi8-r?b?aG90cyAtIEhvdyB0byBNYWtlIGEgQm91bmQgLk5FVCBXaW5Gb3Jt?= =?koi8-r?b?IHdpdGggU3ViRm9ybS4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Did you get .mdf database file attached to your MS SQL Server 2005(?) set of databases? What MS SQL 20065 versions do you use? - default installed with VS 2008 MS SQL 2005 Express? Do you have installed Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio Express http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=C243A5AE-4BD1-4E3D-94B8-5A0F62BF7796&displaylang=en ? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:46:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Shamil, > > I built everything from the video, but one thing I don't get: > > For some reason you are able to simply put "Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;" > where I require a path to the mdf - why does that happen? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:27 PM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a > Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > > > I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums > > > > http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx > > > > the subject HowTos: > > > > 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > > 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm > > > > This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound > > .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data > > tables and relationships... > > > > I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good > > when using streaming video: > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic > > > > you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. > > > > I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - > > yes, it's :) > > > > Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd > > suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the > > more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working > > smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET > > development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development > > environment - correct? :) > > > > As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every > > step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to > > discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the > > end of the project when/if we will have some time left... > > > > Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner > > acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a > > good day and happy .NET WinForms design! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:09:28 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:09:28 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make aBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name Seems to work. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make aBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Shamil, > > I built everything from the video, but one thing I don't get: > > For some reason you are able to simply put "Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;" > where I require a path to the mdf - why does that happen? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "dba-VB" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:27 PM > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a > Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > >> Hi SCRUM Team and all, >> >> I have just made and published on MS Live dba-vb groups' albums >> >> http://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/albums.aspx >> >> the subject HowTos: >> >> 1. Video Clip - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm >> 2. Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm >> >> This video clip/slide show is a quick introduction on how to design bound >> .NET WIndows Forms with subforms using strongly typed datasets with data >> tables and relationships... >> >> I have also published this video clip on YouTube but quality is not good >> when using streaming video: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4Zkr1ZVic >> >> you'd better download the clip and/or screenshots from our group albums. >> >> I expect you'll find that making .NET bound WinForm is a "kids game" - >> yes, it's :) >> >> Well, of course this is not industry strong development style but I'd >> suppose that it is almost all we need now for this first project as the >> more important thing for all of us is to make our SCRUM team working >> smoothly in ensamble, and for our team members starting their .NET >> development practice to get comfortable with powerful VS 2008 development >> environment - correct? :) >> >> As I have written already please feel free to question and comment every >> step presented: we will get most of the comments into our BackLog to >> discuss them as we go and to try to get some of them implemented in the >> end of the project when/if we will have some time left... >> >> Waiting for your comments and questions and for our ProductOwner >> acceptance/rejection of the first set of developed forms... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> P.S. It's time to sleep here (0:20 a.m. and a long day tomorrow). Have a >> good day and happy .NET WinForms design! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:13:11 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:13:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: <1D96B1D205D64E1AB81C0956DB78A302@Mattys> No, I have SQL 2005 Developer - came with VS2008 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to Make a Bound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Hi Mike, > > Did you get .mdf database file attached to your MS SQL Server 2005(?) set > of databases? > > What MS SQL 20065 versions do you use? - default installed with VS 2008 MS > SQL 2005 Express? > > Do you have installed Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio Express > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=C243A5AE-4BD1-4E3D-94B8-5A0F62BF7796&displaylang=en > > ? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:14:10 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:14:10 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> Message-ID: <5241B2EB10C24077B26648A319887D44@Mattys> Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table Try again. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put > ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > > Seems to work. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 15:30:24 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... References: <81F8A27190CC4E6583BE5C93D77860F8@Mattys> <5241B2EB10C24077B26648A319887D44@Mattys> Message-ID: I'm stuck. Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. What should I be looking for to correct this? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > Try again. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name >> >> Seems to work. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:09:07 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:09:07 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEhvd1RvczogVmlkZW8gQ2xpcC9TY3JlZW5z?= =?koi8-r?b?aG90cyAtIEhvd3RvTWFrZWFCb3VuZCAuTkVUIFdpbkZvcm0gd2l0?= =?koi8-r?b?aCBTdWJGb3JtLi4u?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, What is exactly the message? Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on MS Live dba-vb? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > I'm stuck. > Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup > Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. > What should I be looking for to correct this? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How > toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > > Try again. > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > > >> > >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I put > >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > >> > >> Seems to work. > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:13:19 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:13:19 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IFRhcmdldFByb2Nlc3M=?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, FYI: I have got installed TargetProcess (www.targetprocess.com) on my PC but I still can't get it running on my ASP.NET hosting web site. I have sent a request to TargetProcess support to check what is happening there. While waiting their response(it may take a day)/fixing the issue I will be using TargetProcess locally and I will be filling its db with our project information. When public version up&running I will restore its db from my local backup. Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:32:35 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:32:35 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Did you get restored databasse from backup after you've got attached .mdf db file? The .mdf db file has old version of tables with some fields' names being different: remember Gustav prposed to rename some fields? Please restore db from backup published on MS LIve dba-vb several days ago in the same SkyDrive folder, then preview should work I expect (in old [Order] table the current Order.[ID] field ws named OrderId, and the current Order.ShipperId field was named [ShipVia] Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:19:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Hi Shamil, > > Invalid Columns requires new/other fields in query? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - HowtoMakeaBound > .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Mike, > > > > What is exactly the message? > > Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on MS > > Live dba-vb? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - > > HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > >> I'm stuck. > >> Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup > >> Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. > >> What should I be looking for to correct this? > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How > >> toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > >> > >> > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > >> > Try again. > >> > - > >> > Michael R Mattys > >> > MapPoint and Database Dev > >> > www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > - > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Mike Mattys" > >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > >> > issues." > >> > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > >> > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > >> >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I > >> >> put > >> >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > >> >> > >> >> Seems to work. > >> >> > >> >> - > >> >> Michael R Mattys > >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (invcol.jpg) > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 16:41:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:41:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Did you get restored databasse from backup after you've got attached .mdf db file? The .mdf db file has old version of tables with some fields' names being different: remember Gustav prposed to rename some fields? Please restore db from backup published on MS LIve dba-vb several days ago in the same SkyDrive folder, then preview should work I expect (in old [Order] table the current Order.[ID] field ws named OrderId, and the current Order.ShipperId field was named [ShipVia] Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:19:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Hi Shamil, > > Invalid Columns requires new/other fields in query? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - HowtoMakeaBound > .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > > Mike, > > > > What is exactly the message? > > Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on MS > > Live dba-vb? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - > > HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > > > >> I'm stuck. > >> Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup > >> Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. > >> What should I be looking for to correct this? > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How > >> toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > >> > >> > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table > >> > Try again. > >> > - > >> > Michael R Mattys > >> > MapPoint and Database Dev > >> > www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > - > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Mike Mattys" > >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > >> > issues." > >> > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to > >> > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... > >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and > >> >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so I > >> >> put > >> >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name > >> >> > >> >> Seems to work. > >> >> > >> >> - > >> >> Michael R Mattys > >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (invcol.jpg) > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 17:04:07 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:04:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> Message-ID: <9963E979FDBE437CAF5BB177ACF505F0@Mattys> Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > Hi Mike, > > Did you get restored databasse from backup after you've got attached .mdf > db file? > > The .mdf db file has old version of tables with some fields' names being > different: remember Gustav prposed to rename some fields? > > Please restore db from backup published on MS LIve dba-vb several days ago > in the same SkyDrive folder, then preview should work I expect (in old > [Order] table the current Order.[ID] field ws named OrderId, and the > current Order.ShipperId field was named [ShipVia] > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:19:41 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Invalid Columns > >> Hi Shamil, >> >> Invalid Columns requires new/other fields in query? >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 5:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - >> HowtoMakeaBound >> .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> >> >> > Mike, >> > >> > What is exactly the message? >> > Can you make a screenshot and send it to me privately or publish it on >> > MS >> > Live dba-vb? >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > -- >> > Shamil >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: "Mike Mattys" >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> > issues." >> > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:30:24 -0400 >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - >> > HowtoMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> > >> >> I'm stuck. >> >> Dataset-DataModelDataSet not working for my setup >> >> Keeps telling me that ID and Name are invalid. >> >> What should I be looking for to correct this? >> >> >> >> - >> >> Michael R Mattys >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> - >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Mike Mattys" >> >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> >> issues." >> >> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:14 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How >> >> toMakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> >> >> >> >> >> > Wrong - these are keys to the Orders Table >> >> > Try again. >> >> > - >> >> > Michael R Mattys >> >> > MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> > www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> > - >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Mike Mattys" >> >> > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming >> >> > issues." >> >> > >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:09 PM >> >> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: HowTos: Video Clip/Screenshots - How to >> >> > MakeaBound .NET WinForm with SubForm... >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> With the Shippers dataset, the columns ID and Name were unknown and >> >> >> I chose to edit the query. I think that the Alias did not hold, so >> >> >> I >> >> >> put >> >> >> ShipperID, ID and CompanyName, Name >> >> >> >> >> >> Seems to work. >> >> >> >> >> >> - >> >> >> Michael R Mattys >> >> >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> >> >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > dba-VB mailing list >> >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> dba-VB mailing list >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> ATTACHMENT: image/jpeg (invcol.jpg) >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 17:11:36 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <8B2B051C8A2B488D8D185B8A6DB37055@Mattys> <9963E979FDBE437CAF5BB177ACF505F0@Mattys> Message-ID: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection Trouble. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Mar 25 17:36:21 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:36:21 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> Message-ID: Mike, You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace option. Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the latest one. To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll make some changes you wanted to overwrite back. The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details named NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection > Trouble. > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > > > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 18:17:11 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:17:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> Message-ID: <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> I found this to help me out: SQL Services Manager http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > Mike, > > You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. > > When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from > archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace > option. > > Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the latest > one. > > To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and > backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll make > some changes you wanted to overwrite back. > > > The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details > > named > > NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > >> Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection >> Trouble. >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Mattys" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning >> Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns >> >> >> > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. >> > >> > - >> > Michael R Mattys >> > MapPoint and Database Dev >> > www.mattysconsulting.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 18:30:40 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:30:40 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys> <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> Message-ID: OK - database works ... rebuilding my Suppliers stuff - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns >I found this to help me out: > SQL Services Manager > http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > >> Mike, >> >> You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. >> >> When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from >> archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace >> option. >> >> Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the >> latest >> one. >> >> To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and >> backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll >> make >> some changes you wanted to overwrite back. >> >> >> The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: >> >> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details >> >> named >> >> NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 19:18:03 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:18:03 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: SVN/Tortoise References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys><4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> Message-ID: <79BB180046B245148EE99D3537407C7A@Mattys> My Suppliers form worked and I 'uploaded' it. Program.cs was out of date, so the merge failed It said try Update, so I did - that failed, too. I think I like this anyway ... :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > OK - database works ... rebuilding my Suppliers stuff > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > >>I found this to help me out: >> SQL Services Manager >> http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" >> To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns >> >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. >>> >>> When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from >>> archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using >>> replace >>> option. >>> >>> Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the >>> latest >>> one. >>> >>> To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and >>> backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll >>> make >>> some changes you wanted to overwrite back. >>> >>> >>> The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: >>> >>> https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details >>> >>> named >>> >>> NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> >>> P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 25 22:09:46 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:09:46 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: SVN/Tortoise References: <82BEF3610C2045329EF9790E7694BE6B@Mattys><4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> <79BB180046B245148EE99D3537407C7A@Mattys> Message-ID: // Don't forget to comment/uncomment back on // comminitting your current version of code. Of course, I forgot :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:18 PM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: SVN/Tortoise > My Suppliers form worked and I 'uploaded' it. > > Program.cs was out of date, so the merge failed > > It said try Update, so I did - that failed, too. > > I think I like this anyway ... :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 02:50:30 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 10:50:30 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IEludmFsaWQgQ29sdW1ucw==?= In-Reply-To: <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> References: <4FB0FD3D66764950A40FC8D4BDF6FF21@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Yes, that's useful - I have added the link to MS LIve dba-VBn favorites. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:17:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > I found this to help me out: > SQL Services Manager > http://www.sqldbatips.com/showarticle.asp?ID=46 > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:36 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > > > Mike, > > > > You can stop MS SQL Server service in Services or just reboot your PC. > > > > When that solved delete current version of .mdf, then copy one from > > archive and attach it again and then restore db from backup using replace > > option. > > > > Note: published backup has several backup versions - please use the latest > > one. > > > > To help you to solve the issue I have just uploaded current db files and > > backup - you can just attach .mdf - backup is to restore db if you'll make > > some changes you wanted to overwrite back. > > > > > > The archive is at MS LIve dba-VB: > > > > https://cid-000971dc34dc18c0.groups.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Documents/NorthWind.NET/Database?view=details > > > > named > > > > NorthwindNET_DB_and_backup_20090326.zip > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > P.S. Falling asleep here CU tomorrow.... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:11:36 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > > > >> Yes, I deleted everything and orphaned the connection > >> Trouble. > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mike Mattys" > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > >> Visual > >> Basic and related programming issues." > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:04 PM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Invalid Columns > >> > >> > >> > Having trouble finding a way to shut down In-Use database. > >> > > >> > - > >> > Michael R Mattys > >> > MapPoint and Database Dev > >> > www.mattysconsulting.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 04:41:36 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:41:36 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM / Northwind.NET Sample application(s) and library(-ies) Message-ID: Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D ================================== Hi All, I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: http://northwind.codeplex.com/ under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use by a broad worldwide audience." I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week (excluding holidays). Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample application up&running on your PCs. If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what our SCRUM team is doing ... Thank you. -- Shamil From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu Mar 26 06:50:40 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:50:40 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? Message-ID: Hello Scrum Team, Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth running of the scrum project. With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you need / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it (commiting it) back in when you make changes. Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management to become a friction item in the scrum items. Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product owner) at the moment, in your opinion Thanks Mark 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > ================================== > > Hi All, > > I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: > > http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > > under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > > "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within > .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > > This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use by > a broad worldwide audience." > > I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > (excluding holidays). > > Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together > with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample application > up&running on your PCs. > > If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating > your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what our > SCRUM team is doing ... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 09:19:07 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:19:07 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark, Yes, SCRUM techniques and their practical application to our project are important but there are several other subjects of equal importance I'd suppose. - 1) Distributed SCRUM; - 1) Distributed Source Code Control and related technologies to "industrialize" software development: (automated) code refactoring, Test Driven Development, automated Unit/Integration/.... testing, automated coding quality checking, continuous integration etc. (sorry used some buzzwords here but I do know from my experienced all of them do have good practical application) ; - 3) Getting our team members who only start with .NET on speed with .NET development. Of course getting on full speed is a long story but getting on good speed is expected to be (much) shorter... Source Code Control for distributed teams for any real life size project (with thousands of source files) is a cornerstone for everything else in my opinion - I'd "sacrifice" some SCRUM practices but not Source Code Control... Getting our team members on good speed with .NET is the second most important task, and the third is SCRUM - SCRUM will be rather useless in our case without good final project developed, and that good final project can be developed without SCC but then I or somebody else of our team would have to spend their time on routine work of code coordination - let's better try to get automated SCC working with your server - it should be less "trouble" to solve for our team than to coordinate code changes manually (Note: yes, in the beginning I was telling we can live without SCC but now with your server and/or CodePlex working well I'd prefer to rely on automated SCC, and free some time to assist in coding for other team members...) I will be keeping here SCRUM stats on local TargetProcess system until I get it online (with help of TargetProcess helpdesk) and that work needs some time - I'd better do it than coordinate source code manually.... When we currently have two working options as your SCC Server and CodePlex we should use first of them (your server) as a team, and the second - CodePlex - I'd keep posting current versions every week to have them shared wit everybody. CodePlex is good but using your server (if you'll have time) will allow us to get e.g. CruiseControl.NET etc. running there and then we can use such tested configuration for other projects, consult others etc. - installing and keeping running such "continuous integration chain" is not "rocket-science" but doing that alone takes quite some time - together we can get it up&running much quicker... Mark, there is one concern about committing changes, namely, imagine somebody of our team adds new forms/reports/classes to one of the two projects, and another team members adds some more new forms/reports/classes to one of the two projects etc. - and they are doing that against common current versions of solution they have on their PC. What will happen with project files .csproj when they will be committed? Not sure here they will get merged properly. I'd try to test that ASAP: we can do that with you by chatting via MS Messenger/GoogleTalk and doing some additions to the source projects, and then committing them. Note: I'd suppose VisualSVN somehow handles this issue because it's a Visual Studio Add-in and such add-ins can process .csproj files smarter than just TortoiseSVN, which I expect (I can be wrong) would just try to "stupidly" merge two files producing incorrect .csproj file (which is an XML file)... > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > owner) at the moment, in your opinion Mark as far as I see what is missing in Access Northwind is navigation involving all forms and reports - maybe you can try to figure out such navigation by just filling a worksheet with rows having forms/reports names and some columns having "buttons" navigating to other forms/reports... It would be useful also to maybe try to install CruiseControl.NET and get it working on every commit running a "fake" unit test showing that currently committed code compiles and builds well, "fake" unit/integration test runs etc. but that kind of activity is not the one of ProductOwner - would you be interested to do something like that? - and when we're done with all forms/reports/navigation then we can join you to set this automated development environment. No need to set this environment quickly but setting it gradually piece by piece would be useful for all of us+. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Breen To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:50:40 +0000 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hello Scrum Team, > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth > running of the scrum project. > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you need > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management to > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > Thanks > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > > ================================== > > > > Hi All, > > > > I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: > > > > http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > > > > under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > > > > "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > > demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within > > .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > > > > This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > > (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > > together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > > technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use by > > a broad worldwide audience." > > > > I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > > (excluding holidays). > > > > Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together > > with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > > follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample application > > up&running on your PCs. > > > > If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating > > your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what our > > SCRUM team is doing ... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 26 10:08:53 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? References: Message-ID: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> Hi Mark, The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to re-comment some code. Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Breen" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hello Scrum Team, > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth > running of the scrum project. > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > need > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management > to > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > Thanks > > Mark > > > > > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D >> ================================== >> >> Hi All, >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use >> by >> a broad worldwide audience." >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week >> (excluding holidays). >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample >> application >> up&running on your PCs. >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what >> our >> SCRUM team is doing ... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 10:30:15 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:30:15 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> References: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get commit it yesterday? Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hi Mark, > > The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to > re-comment some code. > > Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Breen" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > Hello Scrum Team, > > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the smooth > > running of the scrum project. > > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > > need > > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking it > > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > > > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code management > > to > > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > > > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > > > Thanks > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > >> ================================== > >> > >> Hi All, > >> > >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on CodePlex: > >> > >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > >> > >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > >> > >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used within > >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > >> > >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to use > >> by > >> a broad worldwide audience." > >> > >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > >> (excluding holidays). > >> > >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded together > >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample > >> application > >> up&running on your PCs. > >> > >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep updating > >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of what > >> our > >> SCRUM team is doing ... > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> -- > >> Shamil > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Mar 26 10:37:55 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:37:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? References: <525416E620D2499D84F7D84B0514B1E0@Mattys> Message-ID: <2826E71E97424DC0901436D4A1A8F83F@Mattys> All committed! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hi Mike, > > But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get > commit it yesterday? > > Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's > just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the > forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code > line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - > don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. > > But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC > when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit > your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > issues." > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > >> Hi Mark, >> >> The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to >> re-comment some code. >> >> Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark Breen" >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning >> Visual >> Basic and related programming issues." >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? >> >> >> > Hello Scrum Team, >> > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, >> > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the >> > smooth >> > running of the scrum project. >> > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you >> > need >> > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking >> > it >> > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. >> > >> > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code >> > management >> > to >> > become a friction item in the scrum items. >> > >> > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product >> > owner) at the moment, in your opinion >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > Mark >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil >> > >> >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D >> >> ================================== >> >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on >> >> CodePlex: >> >> >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ >> >> >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). >> >> >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to >> >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used >> >> within >> >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. >> >> >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of >> >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working >> >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new >> >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to >> >> use >> >> by >> >> a broad worldwide audience." >> >> >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week >> >> (excluding holidays). >> >> >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded >> >> together >> >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and >> >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample >> >> application >> >> up&running on your PCs. >> >> >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep >> >> updating >> >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of >> >> what >> >> our >> >> SCRUM team is doing ... >> >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Shamil >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> dba-VB mailing list >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-VB mailing list >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 10:58:26 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:58:26 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: <2826E71E97424DC0901436D4A1A8F83F@Mattys> References: <2826E71E97424DC0901436D4A1A8F83F@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, I have got your updates using Visual SVN and it worked OK - I see your new form in the VS project - although form do not work now - all forms... ...no problem I will try to find what happened - I currently see app.config in the project is OK for my environment - so ir should be something else... ...stay tuned. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:37:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > All committed! > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:30 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get > > commit it yesterday? > > > > Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's > > just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the > > forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code > > line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - > > don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. > > > > But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC > > when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit > > your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > issues." > > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > >> Hi Mark, > >> > >> The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to > >> re-comment some code. > >> > >> Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? > >> > >> - > >> Michael R Mattys > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > >> - > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mark Breen" > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > >> Visual > >> Basic and related programming issues." > >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > >> > >> > >> > Hello Scrum Team, > >> > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > >> > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the > >> > smooth > >> > running of the scrum project. > >> > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > >> > need > >> > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking > >> > it > >> > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > >> > > >> > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code > >> > management > >> > to > >> > become a friction item in the scrum items. > >> > > >> > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > >> > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > > >> > Mark > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > >> > > >> >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > >> >> ================================== > >> >> > >> >> Hi All, > >> >> > >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on > >> >> CodePlex: > >> >> > >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > >> >> > >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > >> >> > >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > >> >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used > >> >> within > >> >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > >> >> > >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > >> >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > >> >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > >> >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to > >> >> use > >> >> by > >> >> a broad worldwide audience." > >> >> > >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > >> >> (excluding holidays). > >> >> > >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded > >> >> together > >> >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > >> >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample > >> >> application > >> >> up&running on your PCs. > >> >> > >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep > >> >> updating > >> >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of > >> >> what > >> >> our > >> >> SCRUM team is doing ... > >> >> > >> >> Thank you. > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Shamil > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> dba-VB mailing list > >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-VB mailing list > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Mar 26 11:48:55 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:48:55 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all, OK, this should: Right-Click Project name -> Properties -> Settings -> NorthwindNETConnectionString with setting value = Data Source=HAMBURG\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True which should be edited and then app.config's sestion is getting (re-)generated. But as far as I can see the value from app.config is not used by strongly-typed datasets - instead hardcoded value from Northwind.NET.FE -> Properties -> Settings.Designer.cs is used... We can keep replacing each other connection strings if we will be commiting Settings.Designer.cs and app.config - IOW better not commit them if we do not introduce new settings. In any event take anote that if you are getting trouble opening say CategoriesForm then you have to edit connection string in project settings not in app.config. Sorry for confusion I introduced. (I must say I rarely use strongly typed datasets but this issue/subject is another story we can talk in half a year probably - maybe in that time I will become adept of strongly typed datasets and ADO.NET Entity Framework and I will forget my current preferences of using custom object models with as little ADO.NET as possibel and without any strongly typed datasets at all... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. I have to make a correction of my video tutorial now. -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:58:26 +0300 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > Hi Mike, > > I have got your updates using Visual SVN and it worked OK - I see your new form in the VS project - although form do not work now - all forms... > > ...no problem I will try to find what happened - I currently see app.config in the project is OK for my environment - so ir should be something else... > > ...stay tuned. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:37:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > All committed! > > > > - > > Michael R Mattys > > MapPoint and Database Dev > > www.mattysconsulting.com > > - > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > But I didn't find the new form from you in the project today - did you get > > > commit it yesterday? > > > > > > Uncomment/comment the code in program.cs is a temporary measure - it's > > > just used for you and otehr team members to quickly test/run the > > > forms/reports you'll develop. Even if you'll forget to uncomment main code > > > line in program.cs and comment your own one that wouldn't be a big issue - > > > don't worry about that - everybody of us can fix this issue locally. > > > > > > But if you got commit a new form and I and other haven's got it on our PC > > > when using SVN Update - that could be an issue. Could you please commit > > > your form once more and I will try to get your update from SVN Server? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: "Mike Mattys" > > > To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming > > > issues." > > > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:08:53 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > > > > >> Hi Mark, > > >> > > >> The Commit process seemed straight-forward until I forgot to > > >> re-comment some code. > > >> > > >> Perhaps just a nightly build checklist? > > >> > > >> - > > >> Michael R Mattys > > >> MapPoint and Database Dev > > >> www.mattysconsulting.com > > >> - > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Mark Breen" > > >> To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning > > >> Visual > > >> Basic and related programming issues." > > >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:50 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > > >> > > >> > > >> > Hello Scrum Team, > > >> > Scrum techniques are the primary objective of this project, > > >> > The source code control is not to be allowed to interfere with the > > >> > smooth > > >> > running of the scrum project. > > >> > With that in mind, is the source code server working for you, or do you > > >> > need > > >> > / want any help checking out the code to your machine and then checking > > >> > it > > >> > (commiting it) back in when you make changes. > > >> > > > >> > Let me know if you need any help, but do not allow source code > > >> > management > > >> > to > > >> > become a friction item in the scrum items. > > >> > > > >> > Shamil, is there any tasks that I should currently be doing (as product > > >> > owner) at the moment, in your opinion > > >> > > > >> > Thanks > > >> > > > >> > Mark > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > 2009/3/26 Salakhetdinov Shamil > > >> > > > >> >> Crossposted to dba-VB and Access-D > > >> >> ================================== > > >> >> > > >> >> Hi All, > > >> >> > > >> >> I have just published Northwind.NET project current sources on > > >> >> CodePlex: > > >> >> > > >> >> http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > > >> >> > > >> >> under GNU General Public License version 2 (GPLv2). > > >> >> > > >> >> "This is a sample (set of) class libraries and applications used to > > >> >> demonstrate different technologies and development practices used > > >> >> within > > >> >> .NET Framework and Visual Studio 2008. > > >> >> > > >> >> This proect is also a try to use Distributed SCRUM for a team of > > >> >> (currently) six people from different countries and time zones working > > >> >> together to achieve common goals of continuous learning of the new > > >> >> technologies and of delivering modern technologies' samples ready to > > >> >> use > > >> >> by > > >> >> a broad worldwide audience." > > >> >> > > >> >> I will try to keep published the latest sources at least once a week > > >> >> (excluding holidays). > > >> >> > > >> >> Have a look at the courrent sources - if you get them downloaded > > >> >> together > > >> >> with sample db, attach database to your MS SQL Server 2005 and up, and > > >> >> follow short tutorial then you can get current version of sample > > >> >> application > > >> >> up&running on your PCs. > > >> >> > > >> >> If you register on CodePlex for this project then you can keep > > >> >> updating > > >> >> your Northwind.NET sources using Tortoise SVN and keep in touch of > > >> >> what > > >> >> our > > >> >> SCRUM team is doing ... > > >> >> > > >> >> Thank you. > > >> >> > > >> >> -- > > >> >> Shamil > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > >> >> dba-VB mailing list > > >> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > dba-VB mailing list > > >> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> dba-VB mailing list > > >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 04:08:20 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and All, I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 05:02:25 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:02:25 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 27 05:29:17 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:29:17 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team and all This really caused me a headache, and even when I found out as described here that the connection string is stored in the settings too, I still couldn't open the datasets as described here: https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/Workaround.aspx?FeedbackID=113567 However, this morning after a restart it suddenly worked. This issue is not common as in "real life" we all would attach to the same database, thus the issue would be moot. Despite all the trouble with the source code system - it took some time to get going - I like it very much including VisualSVN. It is extremely convenient to have the tiny green/yellow/red balls juxtaposed the normal icons - at a glance you can see which files have been changed. Sometimes you need a kick to get started and I will for sure follow this route and set up my own server for new projects as I work both from home and from the office. Also, external assistance could be called easily! /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 26-03-2009 17:48 >>> Hi SCRUM Team and all, OK, this should: Right-Click Project name -> Properties -> Settings -> NorthwindNETConnectionString with setting value = Data Source=HAMBURG\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True which should be edited and then app.config's sestion is getting (re-)generated. But as far as I can see the value from app.config is not used by strongly-typed datasets - instead hardcoded value from Northwind.NET.FE -> Properties -> Settings.Designer.cs is used... We can keep replacing each other connection strings if we will be commiting Settings.Designer.cs and app.config - IOW better not commit them if we do not introduce new settings. In any event take anote that if you are getting trouble opening say CategoriesForm then you have to edit connection string in project settings not in app.config. Sorry for confusion I introduced. (I must say I rarely use strongly typed datasets but this issue/subject is another story we can talk in half a year probably - maybe in that time I will become adept of strongly typed datasets and ADO.NET Entity Framework and I will forget my current preferences of using custom object models with as little ADO.NET as possibel and without any strongly typed datasets at all... Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 27 05:32:12 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... Message-ID: Hi Shamil I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: dba-VB Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 06:35:25 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:35:25 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU0gSXMgc291cmNlIGNvZGUgY29udHJvbCB3b3Jr?= =?koi8-r?b?aW5nIE9LIGZvciB5b3U/?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav and SCRUM Team, The issue was that in app.config we have got somehow renamed Northwind.NET.FE.Properties.Settings.NorthwindNETConnectionString to NNNorthwind.NET.FE.Properties.Settings.NorthwindNETConnectionString watch two addiional letters 'NNN' added in the beginning... The fact is that when you change connection string in app.config it's OK and good enough for datasets to work/use this connection string. But it still isn't changed in application settings. If (as we have got) the connection string name is renamed in app.config then Visual Studio (e.g. when you try to preview datasets' data) uses default value from settings - and this value is hardcoded on last edit and compile of application settings (via project properties-> settings designer) etc. Visual Studio has several such "points of confusion" because it uses parts of the source project "compiled on the fly" in *design mode*: strongly typed datasets are just C# classes and when they are used in design mode they get compiled and they use settings which are loaded from app.config if corresponding app.config value is present, and it was absent in our case - hence Visual Studio used hardcoded value... Moreover in runtime {{executable file name}}.config file is used to load settings - in our case this is Northwind.NET.FE.exe.config (check \Bin folder) - this file is generated by VS on project rebuilding. (I didn't put this file under source code control as everybody gets their own vesion of this file when they recompile/rebuild solution and this happens every time you do a change to your code and then start application from within visual studion with or wothout debugging. Some more information: there are different *scopes* of settings as you can see in settings design window: - Application and User. When one will try to find how this works they usually get lost (as I do :)) - when you save User scope settings when using your app in runtime mode they *do get saved* but not in {{executable file name}}.config - they are saved somewhere on your system in your windows current user area - I still can't find where - do you? Visual Studio and .NET Framework are huge and it takes some time to get used to them - I'm working with them for fifth year and still see that there comes a lot of new stuff to learn as opposite to MS Access when I was at "guru level" in less than two years of using MS Access application in actual development - I suppose that "guru level" with .NET Framework and VS is unacheivable in one's lifetime :) - and I feel OK with that :)))... Let's discuss actively the issues as the subject one then we will proceed quicker - as I have written here several times: please questions everything you see coming from here, especially if it doesn't work as expected... (as I noted I didn't use strongly typed datastes that much with .NET and I didn't use standard handling of settings in VS because they partially are "black boxes" in some parts but for this project to avoid a lot of manual coding we'd better use these "black boxes")... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. This is how strongly typed dataset gets connection string value from settings, and settings load that value from app.config if it's present there AFAIU or use hardcoded value if it's absent - the latter happended in our case with two additional letters 'NN' getting in front of connection string name in app.config: DataModelDataSet.Designer.cs ============================ .... [global::System.Diagnostics.DebuggerNonUserCodeAttribute()] private void InitConnection() { this._connection = new global::System.Data.SqlClient.SqlConnection(); this._connection.ConnectionString = global::Northwind.NET.FE.Properties.Settings.Default.NorthwindNETConnectionString; } ... Settings.Designer.cs ===================== namespace Northwind.NET.FE.Properties { [global::System.Runtime.CompilerServices.CompilerGeneratedAttribute()] [global::System.CodeDom.Compiler.GeneratedCodeAttribute("Microsoft.VisualStudio.Editors.SettingsDesigner.SettingsSingleFileGenerator", "9.0.0.0")] internal sealed partial class Settings : global::System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase { private static Settings defaultInstance = ((Settings)(global::System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase.Synchronized(new Settings()))); public static Settings Default { get { return defaultInstance; } } [global::System.Configuration.ApplicationScopedSettingAttribute()] [global::System.Diagnostics.DebuggerNonUserCodeAttribute()] [global::System.Configuration.SpecialSettingAttribute(global::System.Configuration.SpecialSetting.ConnectionString)] [global::System.Configuration.DefaultSettingValueAttribute("Data Source=HAMBURG\\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True" + ";Language=English")] public string NorthwindNETConnectionString { get { return ((string)(this["NorthwindNETConnectionString"])); } } -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: " Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:29:17 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM Is source code control working OK for you? > Hi SCRUM Team and all > > This really caused me a headache, and even when I found out as described here that the connection string is stored in the settings too, I still couldn't open the datasets as described here: > > https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/Workaround.aspx?FeedbackID=113567 > > However, this morning after a restart it suddenly worked. > > This issue is not common as in "real life" we all would attach to the same database, thus the issue would be moot. > > Despite all the trouble with the source code system - it took some time to get going - I like it very much including VisualSVN. It is extremely convenient to have the tiny green/yellow/red balls juxtaposed the normal icons - at a glance you can see which files have been changed. > Sometimes you need a kick to get started and I will for sure follow this route and set up my own server for new projects as I work both from home and from the office. Also, external assistance could be called easily! > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 26-03-2009 17:48 >>> > > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > OK, this should: > > Right-Click Project name -> Properties -> Settings -> NorthwindNETConnectionString > > with setting value = > > Data Source=HAMBURG\SQL2005;Initial Catalog=NorthwindNET;Integrated Security=True > > which should be edited and then app.config's sestion is getting (re-)generated. But as far as I can see the value from app.config is not used by strongly-typed datasets - instead hardcoded value from > > Northwind.NET.FE -> Properties -> Settings.Designer.cs is used... > > We can keep replacing each other connection strings if we will be commiting > > Settings.Designer.cs and app.config - IOW better not commit them if we do not introduce new settings. > > In any event take anote that if you are getting trouble opening say CategoriesForm then you have to edit connection string in project settings not in app.config. > > Sorry for confusion I introduced. (I must say I rarely use strongly typed datasets but this issue/subject is another story we can talk in half a year probably - maybe in that time I will become adept of strongly typed datasets and ADO.NET Entity Framework and I will forget my current preferences of using custom object models with as little ADO.NET as possibel and without any strongly typed datasets at all... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 06:42:57 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:42:57 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, Gustav, thank you. I will make then Orders tomorrow morning. Let me note that Employee form has some pics to load from files (when they are present) we have None such pics currently - do you plan to add some (using ones from Access Northwind?) - maybe just one fake pic - that would be enough for this version. If you plan to add some pics please put them into \Pictures (or \Images) subfolder of \Bin folder then you can get the full path to this folder using Northwind.NET.Utilities.Context.ExecutingAssemblyFolderName + @"Pictures\" Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi Shamil > > I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... > > Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 06:50:55 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 07:50:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... References: Message-ID: <65CCBA9CCC82415C865F74FD8C64017E@Mattys> Hi Shamil, Please do accept it as done. My Northwind Traders mdt won't materialize, so I don't have any idea what any of the forms should look like, so I rushed to get the structure of the form complete so that I wouldn't hold up the team. If there are formatting issues or code to do, I will do it in following weeks. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 5:08 AM Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are > commited to our SCC server. > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" > state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to > fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely > "DONE") > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - > so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 27 07:55:56 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:55:56 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... Message-ID: Hi Shamil I've got the pictures and will include them. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 12:42 >>> OK, Gustav, thank you. I will make then Orders tomorrow morning. Let me note that Employee form has some pics to load from files (when they are present) we have None such pics currently - do you plan to add some (using ones from Access Northwind?) - maybe just one fake pic - that would be enough for this version. If you plan to add some pics please put them into \Pictures (or \Images) subfolder of \Bin folder then you can get the full path to this folder using Northwind.NET.Utilities.Context.ExecutingAssemblyFolderName + @"Pictures\" Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi Shamil > > I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... > > Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > To: dba-VB > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 08:15:03 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:15:03 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBwcm9n?= =?koi8-r?b?cmVzcy4uLg==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, OK, thank you. Please put them under source control too - \Bin folder and \Bin Logs folder are put in there but that's it, and when new files are added in \Bin folder it could be needed to manually set checkmark for them while commiting your changes/additions. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:55:56 +0100 Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > Hi Shamil > > I've got the pictures and will include them. > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 12:42 >>> > OK, Gustav, thank you. > > I will make then Orders tomorrow morning. > > Let me note that Employee form has some pics to load from files (when they are present) we have None such pics currently - do you plan to add some (using ones from Access Northwind?) - maybe just one fake pic - that would be enough for this version. > > If you plan to add some pics please put them into \Pictures (or \Images) subfolder of \Bin folder then you can get the full path to this folder using > > Northwind.NET.Utilities.Context.ExecutingAssemblyFolderName + @"Pictures\" > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:32:12 +0100 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > Hi Shamil > > > > I'm a bit late so let me pick Employees ... > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 27-03-2009 11:02 >>> > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > Sorry, I should have written we're near to complete this week plan... > > > > Gustav, please adviser what form did you decide to develop: Employees or Orders (with its subform)? I will make the other one then. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > To: dba-VB > > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:08:20 +0300 > > Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project progress... > > > > > Hi SCRUM Team and All, > > > > > > I have added developed Start-up form to the subject project. Sources are commited to our SCC server. > > > > > > Mike may I accept that the Suppliers form you developed has got "DONE" state? (Then our ProductOwner can test it and maybe report some things to fix in this form and put it back to backlog until it will be definitely "DONE") > > > > > > Gustav, Doug and John what are your plans with your forms development? > > > > > > FYI: We as a team doing well - and we have got completed this week plan - so ProductOwner should be happy... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 08:50:48 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:50:48 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: Message-ID: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. "Object Not Instantiated" blah! I reverted to my previous form using SVN. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 09:34:02 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:34:02 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Message-ID: I can't spend any more time, have to go to dentist - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ; "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked > on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. > > Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton > and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. > "Object Not Instantiated" blah! > > I reverted to my previous form using SVN. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 12:58:58 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:58:58 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBEZXNp?= =?koi8-r?b?Z24gTm90ZQ==?= In-Reply-To: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> References: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Message-ID: Hi Mike, When you do renaming buttons that should work - you get new button name but still old name of event procedure but code shoudl compile and this event procedure should work. I guess you could have made some other edits, which resulted in design time error message. Please don't give up when you'll see all that "Object Not Instantiated" messages etc. - just type CTRL+SHIFT+B to rebuild solution and then Ctrl+\, Ctrl+E to show "Errors List" window and from the latter window by clicking on its entries you csn go directly to the code lines resulting in that error messages - and edit/fix code manually.... Master these skills now when the project is simple... WinForm code in VS2008 consists from two standard code files constituting *one* class: 1. {{FormName}}.cs - part of partial form class to implement custom logic 2. {{FormName}}.Designer.cs - part of partial form class used by form designer on design time as well as to instantiate form on runtime - have a look what code you have for Form1 and button1 control with Cick event having its empty event procedure: Form1.cs ========= public partial class Form1 : Form { ... private void button1_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) { } } Form1.Designer.cs ================== private void InitializeComponent() { this.button1 = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); ... // // button1 // this.button1.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); this.button1.Name = "button1"; this.button1.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); this.button1.TabIndex = 0; this.button1.Text = "button1"; this.button1.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; this.button1.Click += new System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); // ... When you rename button1 to addProductButton you'll get ... this.addProductButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); ... // // addProductButton // this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; this.addProductButton.Text = "button1"; this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; this.addProductButton.Click += new System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); ... You can go and rename the rest manually like that: Form1.cs ========= public partial class Form1 : Form { ... private void addProductButton_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) { } } Form1.Designer.cs ================== private void InitializeComponent() { this.addProductsButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); .... this.SuspendLayout(); // // addProductButton // this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; this.addProductButton.Text = "Add Product"; this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; this.addProductButton.Click += new System.EventHandler(this.addProductButton_Click); ... and everything should work OK. I'm doing such renamings almost automatically when needed. There are other ways to fix this issue. Please note control names are started from lowerCase and use camelCase - that's a used by most of the developers namng convention recommended by MS. Once again please do such renaming several times in a test project or directly in our main project - don't be afarid doing that - it's a usual practice. Note that in designer part of code the code is usually hidden in VS2008 because of using #region Windows Form Designer generated code .... #endregion Sorry I can't write in all the details - such writing takes a lot of time... Note (as in the case with strongly typed datasets we discussed here in another thread) there is Design and Run-Time modes for many parts of code you develop under VS - but some code (as for forms) can be changed manually while the other (as for strongly typed datasets) should be better kept untouched to not get your project heavily screwed... For forms all the design information is stored in code and interpreted/executed by VS designers on design time but for strtongly typed datasets there are also some xml files keeping those datasets attributes and properties and those xml files are used by VS to generate C# code used on runtime.... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:50:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked > on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. > > Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton > and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. > "Object Not Instantiated" blah! > > I reverted to my previous form using SVN. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 13:07:58 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:58 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: <433D6F0B49D243FBB60C6C1FCB5B8DDE@Mattys> Message-ID: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> Thanks, Shamil If I keep making you write, you'll have enough for a book soon :) - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > > Hi Mike, > > When you do renaming buttons that should work - you get new button name > but still old name of event procedure but code shoudl compile and this > event procedure should work. > > I guess you could have made some other edits, which resulted in design > time error message. > > Please don't give up when you'll see all that "Object Not Instantiated" > messages etc. - just type > > CTRL+SHIFT+B to rebuild solution and then > > Ctrl+\, Ctrl+E to show "Errors List" window > > and from the latter window by clicking on its entries you csn go directly > to the code lines resulting in that error messages - and edit/fix code > manually.... > > Master these skills now when the project is simple... > > WinForm code in VS2008 consists from two standard code files constituting > *one* class: > > 1. {{FormName}}.cs - part of partial form class to implement custom logic > 2. {{FormName}}.Designer.cs - part of partial form class used by form > designer on design time as well as to instantiate form on runtime - have a > look what code you have for Form1 and button1 control with Cick event > having its empty event procedure: > > Form1.cs > ========= > > public partial class Form1 : Form > { > ... > private void button1_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) > { > > } > } > > > Form1.Designer.cs > ================== > > private void InitializeComponent() > { > this.button1 = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); > ... > // > // button1 > // > this.button1.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, 46); > this.button1.Name = "button1"; > this.button1.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); > this.button1.TabIndex = 0; > this.button1.Text = "button1"; > this.button1.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; > this.button1.Click += new > System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); > // > > ... > > > When you rename button1 to addProductButton you'll get > ... > this.addProductButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); > ... > // > // addProductButton > // > this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, > 46); > this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; > this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); > this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; > this.addProductButton.Text = "button1"; > this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; > this.addProductButton.Click += new > System.EventHandler(this.button1_Click_1); > > ... > > You can go and rename the rest manually like that: > > Form1.cs > ========= > > public partial class Form1 : Form > { > ... > private void addProductButton_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) > { > > } > } > > > Form1.Designer.cs > ================== > > private void InitializeComponent() > { > this.addProductsButton = new System.Windows.Forms.Button(); > .... > this.SuspendLayout(); > // > // addProductButton > // > this.addProductButton.Location = new System.Drawing.Point(37, > 46); > this.addProductButton.Name = "addProductButton"; > this.addProductButton.Size = new System.Drawing.Size(75, 23); > this.addProductButton.TabIndex = 0; > this.addProductButton.Text = "Add Product"; > this.addProductButton.UseVisualStyleBackColor = true; > this.addProductButton.Click += new > System.EventHandler(this.addProductButton_Click); > > ... > > and everything should work OK. > > I'm doing such renamings almost automatically when needed. > There are other ways to fix this issue. > Please note control names are started from lowerCase and use camelCase - > that's a used by most of the developers namng convention recommended by > MS. > > Once again please do such renaming several times in a test project or > directly in our main project - don't be afarid doing that - it's a usual > practice. > > Note that in designer part of code the code is usually hidden in VS2008 > because of using > > #region Windows Form Designer generated code > .... > #endregion > > Sorry I can't write in all the details - such writing takes a lot of > time... > > Note (as in the case with strongly typed datasets we discussed here in > another thread) there is Design and Run-Time modes for many parts of code > you develop under VS - but some code (as for forms) can be changed > manually while the other (as for strongly typed datasets) should be better > kept untouched to not get your project heavily screwed... > > For forms all the design information is stored in code and > interpreted/executed by VS designers on design time but for strtongly > typed datasets there are also some xml files keeping those datasets > attributes and properties and those xml files are used by VS to generate > C# code used on runtime.... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:50:48 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > >> Having added two buttons, button1 and button2, I double-clicked >> on button1 to add an event procedure to open the Products form. >> >> Then I realized that I wanted to name the buttons ReviewProductsButton >> and AddProductsButton. I did so and saved. All sorts of errors ensued. >> "Object Not Instantiated" blah! >> >> I reverted to my previous form using SVN. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Mar 27 13:23:16 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:23:16 +0300 Subject: [dba-VB] =?koi8-r?b?U0NSVU06IE5vcnRod2luZC5ORVQgcHJvamVjdCBEZXNp?= =?koi8-r?b?Z24gTm90ZQ==?= In-Reply-To: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> References: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> Message-ID: Thank you, Mike, Let's assume this is a training in writing :) - I mean I'd prefer to write on a bit more advanced C# development subjects then with time that writtten stuff could be collected into an original book probaby. I must also say that the quantity and quality of stuff written about .NET Framework and C# and OOP etc. is so enormous nowadays that to find some original subjects to write about is a real issue - almost everything looks as deja' vue... Sorry for some mistypings but I'm typing directly in plain text without spell-checker in my Internet e-mail client... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Mattys" To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Thanks, Shamil > If I keep making you write, you'll have enough for a book soon :) > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Mar 27 13:38:37 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:38:37 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note References: <44EFD43F51E9486E9E22C9B98DE015C5@Mattys> Message-ID: It isn't deja vu - I'm 7 or 8 years overdue for .Net, that's all. Thanks again, Shamil PS - let me know when one can see the top of the mountain! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" To: "dba-VB" Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > Thank you, Mike, > > Let's assume this is a training in writing :) - I mean I'd prefer to write > on a bit more advanced C# development subjects then with time that > writtten stuff could be collected into an original book probaby. I must > also say that the quantity and quality of stuff written about .NET > Framework and C# and OOP etc. is so enormous nowadays that to find some > original subjects to write about is a real issue - almost everything looks > as deja' vue... > > Sorry for some mistypings but I'm typing directly in plain text without > spell-checker in my Internet e-mail client... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mike Mattys" > To: "Salakhetdinov Shamil" ,"Discussion concerning Visual > Basic and related programming issues." > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:58 -0400 > Subject: Re: [dba-VB]SCRUM: Northwind.NET project Design Note > >> Thanks, Shamil >> If I keep making you write, you'll have enough for a book soon :) >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 30 11:49:05 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:49:05 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team So how are we proceeding? I'm a little unsure what the next step is ... /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 25-03-2009 18:18 >>> Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 30 15:44:10 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:44:10 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan Message-ID: Hi SCRUM Team As Shamil has written several times, we have to learn new techniques and tools. TortoiseSVN/VirtualSVN has been an eye-opener to me - it is a pleasure to work with and if you never before have use a versioning system for your code, this is your chance. To me it is double fun as I work both at home, from a laptop and at the office. Previously I just copied the complete solution folder to and from an FTP folder - now I can just open VS and in a minute I have al updates from wherever they were made! I really appreciate the time Shamil has taken to get this going - I know very well have much time it takes to research and test and set up. The Employee form was a bit late - I had some troubles with it, but Shamil came up with a good solution for storing the pictures. How are you doing Doug and John? Can you also open and download the pictures of the employees? /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 30-03-2009 18:49 >>> Hi SCRUM Team So how are we proceeding? I'm a little unsure what the next step is ... /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 25-03-2009 18:18 >>> Hi SCRUM Team and all, I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. From marklbreen at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 14:01:36 2009 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:01:36 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Gustav, Thanks for the update, I also fear that I may have some tasks that I should be doing, but am not. I guess that I could attempt to get the current code version and review it as Product Owner, but somehow, I fear that I may not be supposed to 'look behind the curtin' until it is ready. So, currently I have no work to do, anyone may correct me if I have this wrong. I am also using the SCCS at the moment, on another project, and getting more and more pleased with how well it works. What I have not delved into yet, is the concept of branches and trunks, perhaps I should put that on the list. Also, we will eventually need to store the db in source control also. I tried a a few years ago to get a fast way to do that, but did not really achieve what I wanted. Of course one method is that I could place the db on the same server as the SCCS but if we do that, it must have some element of care taken, so that one developer does not break the other work. It may not be urgent, but for sure we will eventually need a protected db that is there for each developer to try out major versions of his work. For the minor versions, he can work in his own local machine. This then brings the other arkward issue of connection strings, which I find to be a pain when I have many systems to work with, and to test code. What is great about SVN and the other tools is they are so good and they are free. that is amazing. Thanks Mark 2009/3/30 Gustav Brock > Hi SCRUM Team > > As Shamil has written several times, we have to learn new techniques and > tools. TortoiseSVN/VirtualSVN has been an eye-opener to me - it is a > pleasure to work with and if you never before have use a versioning system > for your code, this is your chance. To me it is double fun as I work both at > home, from a laptop and at the office. Previously I just copied the complete > solution folder to and from an FTP folder - now I can just open VS and in a > minute I have al updates from wherever they were made! > > I really appreciate the time Shamil has taken to get this going - I know > very well have much time it takes to research and test and set up. > > The Employee form was a bit late - I had some troubles with it, but Shamil > came up with a good solution for storing the pictures. > > How are you doing Doug and John? Can you also open and download the > pictures of the employees? > > /gustav > > > >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 30-03-2009 18:49 >>> > Hi SCRUM Team > > So how are we proceeding? > I'm a little unsure what the next step is ... > > /gustav > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 25-03-2009 18:18 >>> > Hi SCRUM Team and all, > > I have got added developed CustomerOrders form. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 31 16:45:27 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:45:27 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SCRUM: Sprint - 1st week plan References: Message-ID: <2D4BC8938DED4924AB557F977E5E0C0B@Mattys> I hope no one is waiting on me ... ? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com -