[dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010

Max Wanadoo max.wanadoo at gmail.com
Tue Mar 16 06:21:01 CDT 2010 

>Why ("apart from masochistic tendencies") does people use arithmetic and
mathematic symbols?

because that is the language of mathematics and similarly for chemistry,
etc.  Using these symbols is universally recognised for this particular
subject matter.  There is ONE language for chemistry and the whole World
uses it.  And similarly for other specialised subject areas.

curly brackets are NOT the language of coding and do nothing to enhance
readability or understanding of what the code is trying to do.  To
understand what the code is doing it is necessary to read the code BETWEEN
the obfuscation caused by sprinkling meaningless symbols all over it.  Take
the words out of the code and you do not have code. Take the curly brackets
out of the code and you are still left with code - albeit not code that will
run in a curly bracket compiler.

max



On 16 March 2010 11:04, Shamil Salakhetdinov <shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru>wrote:

> OK, Max :)
>
> Yes, I know there is no way to "even remotely convince" you that C# is one
> of the best (the best IMO) examples of "clarity, relevance, accuracy and
> brevity" for general purpose programming languages. And so I didn't try to
> convince you - I just expressed my opinion here.
>
> You might try to use netCOBOL:
> http://www.netcobol.com/products/Fujitsu-NetCOBOL-for-.NET/overview
>
> Thank you.
>
> --Shamil
>
> P.S.
> <<<
> why (apart from masochistic tendencies) would
> anybody go for non-plain language coding?
> >>>
> Why ("apart from masochistic tendencies") does people use arithmetic and
> mathematic symbols?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
>  Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:22 AM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
>
> Horses for Courses, Shamil
>
> None of what you state  would even remotely convince me that they are
> "good"
> things.
>
> 1. Case should be indifferent.
> 2. Curly braces should be left on kid's teeth - they have  no  place in
> programming and merely serve to take up lines where code should be,  thus
> reducing the  amount  of code  that can be  seen at  a  glance.  Normal
> indentation serves the same purposes.
> 3. ADA - The absence of a silly piece of syntax does not give rise  to  the
> same  sort  of error as  late binding whereby the error is  giving the
> wrong
> result.   A wrong result is a completely different  sort of error. I can
> understand your emails wether or not you leave out a full stop at the end
> of the sentence and you can understand  mine.  It is only there by
> convention  and  not by  necessity. Adding 2+2  and getting 5 is however, a
> different matter entirely.
>
> Sorry,  but not convinced that OIIV (obtuse, irrelevant, inaccurate and
> verbosity) will ever win  over CRAB.  Clarity, relevance, accuracy  and
> brevity.
>
> When it all gets compiled down to the same thing, then why (apart from
> masochistic tendencies) would anybody go for non-plain language coding?
>
> Max
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
> Salakhetdinov
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 6:49 AM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
>
> Hi Max --
>
> Programming language variables' etc. case sensitivity used with generally
> approved naming conventions is more "KISSful" approach IMO (just IMO) - the
> following declarations:
>
> 1) string _temp;
> 2) string temp;
> 3) string Temp;
>
> are all different, and easily distinguished when referred from the code -
> they (IMO just IMO) can't be a source of obscure errors in good
> programmers'
> hands. They in fact help as they make programming language more expressfull
> using minimal "expression tools" - case sensitivity - as natural languages
> do...
>
> "ADA fiasco" you mentioned was not caused (IMO just IMO) by ADA syntax but
> by insufficient (unit) testing - in VB(A)/VB.NET <http://vb.net/> you can
> easily get similar
> kinds of errors if you'll use late binding or Eval() or Run() without good
> (unit) testing...
>
> "Curly braces" - { ... } - they are my best friends now - "helping hands"
> as
> I have already noted enclosing/keeping/scoping code blocks or properties',
> methods', ... code lines...
>
> Thank you.
>
> --Shamil  {^;^}
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:53 AM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
>
> Except for one thing  Jim,
>
> Where you program in, say C# where strTemp is different to StrTemp and is
> diffent again to strtemp etc, there is tons of scope for errors, but in
> logic and in implementation.
>
> Remember the ADA fiasco some years back on the Appollo flights (I think it
> was) where a trailing ; was omitted?  The spacecraft is still orbiting
> somewhere over norther Nebraska.
>
> Stick with the language which obviates these sort of errors.  Simple pure
> text in English. Forget curly braces and obscurity of "the chosen  word".
> KISS and keep it correct, readable, maintainable  (even if not documented).
>
>
>
> Max
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:07 PM
> To: dwaters at usinternet.com; 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and
> related
> programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
>
> Your language choice has simply become irrelevant. There is no performance
> gain or AFAIK feature gain from what ever CLI language you choose... so
> what
> ever works is my motto...and if you are running your own business who
> cares?
>
> ..and if a client wants to see one code type over the other there are
> always
> code translators. Here is a link to one of many:
> http://www.carlosag.net/Tools/CodeTranslator I make no claim that it does
> a
> good job but neither does VS and apps like DNN but it compiles so who
> cares?
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:35 AM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
>
> http://blogs.msdn.com/scottwil/archive/2010/03/09/vb-and-c-coevolution.aspx
>
> This is pretty good info - I think.  It looks like the functionality
> differences between the two languages from now on will be inconsequential.
> For that reason, I'm going to predict that over time VB.Net will become the
> preferred language - just because it's easier to start with because it's
> easier to read.
>
> Dan
>
> <<< skip >>>
>
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