[dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010

I am with you William.

For me, the biggest help in coding is the Indenter which keeps all my ducks
lined up and  I can see quickly when my END is missing. Sometimes, I am
really good, I put the For and Next in before the stuff in the middle.
Doesn't happen too often as I am not that disciplined  but the Indenter
sorts it for me.

I would love to be able to collapse and expand code based on
For/Next/While/Wend etc. That would be neat.

Max
 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:21 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010

...not just MORE code examples, Max ...a whole lot more ...it was so bad
when I was first learning .Net that I was forced to decipher numerous C#
samples (thank god for the free web translators) ...and in the process it
became evident that although the syntax was different, it wasn't THAT
different ...and then it dawned on me that I could intermix vb.net with
c#.net in the same project and VS didn't care ...so much so that I stopped
translating and started just using C# when that was what I had ...and then
it became rote to do some things in C# and others in vb.net ...which is
basically where I am today.

...I use whatever is most productive for me ...if I knew then what I know
now, I'd have never wasted a minute learning vb.net ...not because its any
less capable than C#, but because its in much wider use among those
producing the type of code I need and therefore much, much more sample code
is available in it.

...that is the reason you find me saying C# when people new to net ask which
they should learn.

...I don't like the brackets any better than anyone else coming from the vb
world ...but I love regions ...it's a trade off ...and the brackets are not
nearly as hard to read as you, Charlotte, and Drew are positing ...once you
get past the short learning curve, they're second nature.

William
p.s. ...anagnorisis IS a cool word ...had to look it up as well ...have to
pass that one on to Pamela ;)

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Max Wanadoo" <max.wanadoo at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 1:58 PM
To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" 
<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010

>
> Hang on, there  is a word I have never heard before....anagnorisis...
>
> Hmm, cool word. I will try to remember that.
>
> I have to say that I do agree with him. I can recall back in the Cobol 
> days that if you had an error early on, the compile gaily marched on 
> spewing out thousands of cascading "false-positive" errors.  When I 
> looked at the examples on that NetCobol you posted I had to smile and 
> say "..why on earth would I want to go back to that?..."
>
> Drews analogy is pretty accurate from what I can see, particulary the 
> part of about the curly braces emcompassing (and thus defining) the 
> borders of code-structure.  But what structure?  All curly braces look
alike.
>
> The VBA compiler stops with a very-near exact reason for the 
> non-compilation and, in most case - not all, a reasonable explanation 
> of why.
>
> I am not agueing against C# or any other language but rather in the 
> supposition being put forward directly and indirectly that somehow it 
> is a "better" platform for implementing code. Remember Pascal - I 
> started on that back in Borland days.  That went by the board.  There 
> is no earthly reason why I would need to do the C#.net route in 
> preference to the VBA.net route with ONE EXCEPTION and that is the one 
> put forward by William where he stated, inter alia, that there was 
> MORE code examples for plagarism.  Most programmers rely upon examples 
> of others to learn and move forward and code examples are the life 
> blood of learning.
>
> I would be interested to see how Charlotte responds.
>
>
> Max
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil 
> Salakhetdinov
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:42 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 
> 2010
>
> Hi Drew --
>
> OK. Even if "the only 'accurate' part on my statement is BRIEF" that's 
> good enough for me.
>
> Max and Charlotte, do you agree with that Drew's anagnorisis ? :)
>
> Thank you.
>
> --Shamil {^;^}
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:24 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 
> 2010
>
> " curly brackets do enhance code readability, make it unambiguous, 
> clear, relevant, accurate and as brief as possible"
>
> The only 'accurate' part of that statement, Shamil, is BRIEF.
>
> Unabmiguous.... Nope, If I write Function TestProcess(), I better see 
> an End Function.  Not End If, End Loop, End Sub, I know I am looking 
> for End Function to be on the last line of the function.  With a 
> {....him, now I'm looking for a }, hey there's one...oh wait, I hit a 
> { first...wait, another {, and another, okay, and here's a }, and 
> oops, another {, crap, is that 3 or 4 {'s, darn, need to go back up.  
> Or, I could trust the programmers 'perfect ' indentation to verify 
> that the brackets are good...... So is indentation and faith really 
> less ambiguous then finding the first 'End Function'?
>
> Clear ...  Hmmmmm, that pretty much is the opposite of ambiguous, thus 
> it's the same as unambiguous.  But I'll smack some more logic on this 
> term for you...after scrolling through a page of code, exactly how 
> does } give me a clear indication of what just happened?  End If tells 
> me I just hit the end of a logical statement.  End Function tells me I 
> just hit the end of a procedure...... What did } tell me that I just 
> ended?
>
> Relevent ...  Hmmm, spilled into this one with Clear..... what again 
> did } just end?  How is it relevant at the bottom of a page I've 
> scrolled down to get too?
>
> Accurate ...  Really?  Odd, if I miss an End if, the compiler will 
> tell me, 'Missing End If', does a C compiler tell you you're missing a 
> }?  I know when I'm writing SQL with a slew of parenthesis, getting 
> told that a ) is missing is like finding a needle in a haystack 
> sometimes.  But getting told, hey, you're missing an End if....MUCH 
> easier to find, because the language is providing a MORE accurate 
> relevance, which is clearer, and less ambiguous to a human eye/brain, 
> then symbols with tribal meaning.
>
> Man, I could do this all day!  And to think I rarely post on this list!
>
> ;)
>
> Drew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil 
> Salakhetdinov
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:02 AM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 
> 2010
>
> OK, Max :)
>
> Not trying to convince you (:)) just noting that curly brackets do 
> enhance code readability, make it unambiguous, clear, relevant, 
> accurate and as brief as possible - all using just two generic 
> (helping hands) symbols - '{'
> and '}' . And in most of the cases curly brackets are inalienable 
> (indefeasible, integral, essential) part of the code - remove them and 
> code blocks will become ambiguous...
>
> Programming languages do come from mathematics, and therefore (IMO 
> just
> IMO)
> using special symbols to keep a programming language syntax as concise 
> and as unambiguous as possible is a good and productive idea...
>
> And in VB(A)(.NET) one have to use the whole set of (natural language)
> substitutes:
>
> - Namespace ... End Namespace
> - Module ... End Module
> - Class ... End Class
> - Sub ... End Sub
> - Function ... End Function
> - For ... Next
> - While ... End While
> - If .... Then ... End If
> - ...
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Shamil  {^;^}
>
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