From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Feb 4 12:14:58 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 13:14:58 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question Message-ID: I have been Googling and trying to find something meaningful in the way of C# sample apps, and falling short just about everywhere I turn. I am trying to surmount this hurdle. I have downloaded a bunch of examples that have nothing at all to do with databases, which is my principal concern, and so all these graphic examples are of little or no interest to me as a (primarily) database developer. Access 2007 came with a Time&Billing sample that I like a lot. I have customized it to suit my needs. It's the perfect small app for me to learn my chops in: a few tables, a few listforms, a click on the PK opens the one of interest, etc. Can anyone provide me to a few links or samples which will help guide me into this new world? I have built a few apps that do not concern databases (MDI text editor etc.), but I need to move on to the world of DB access, starting with small stuff and gradually escalating to 20-table apps and then 40-table apps and then 100-table apps; I'm assuming that after that, I'll be able to figure out the rest. Meanwhile I have several questions, which may reveal my old-school premises: 1. Why would I want to use DLinq as opposed to firing sprocs? I absolutely have missed the boat on this one. 2. In a 10-table app, how many DataLinks and SQLAdapters etc. do I need? 3, How does one present a GridView upon which a double-click invokes a one-row edit/insert form, then return to the refreshed list? 4. Assuming we're abandoning the convenience of Access's Switchboard menu system, what is proposed instead? 5. I have a UI-problem with the typical hierarchical presentation of data. I do not want a list of Customers to invoke another list of CustomerProjects, and thence their details, and so on. What I want up front is a list of Incomplete Projects, prioritized by Immediacy. Double-clicking on one of those ought to open a tabbed form that lists HoursLogged, ExpensesIncurred, PaymentsMade, and so on. No example that I have yet encountered shows me how to build this sort of app. I'm looking for such an example but failing to find it. Can anyone provide me with such a link? -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Only two businesses refer to their clientele as users: drug dealers and software developers. -- Arthur Fuller From dw-murphy at cox.net Sat Feb 4 12:28:36 2012 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 10:28:36 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00a201cce36a$cf0e4840$6d2ad8c0$@cox.net> Arthur, I can't comment on C# as I use vb.net. But if you want an example project there is a nice one on Deborah Kurata's website. It is in vb.net but the principles apply to C#. this is kind of old school as it was for her book "Doing objects in Visual Basic 2005". Uses stored procedures. I still refer to this book from time to time. I don't do enough of this type of work to have gotten into the Entity Framework or other new MS technologies. Doug -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:15 AM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question I have been Googling and trying to find something meaningful in the way of C# sample apps, and falling short just about everywhere I turn. I am trying to surmount this hurdle. I have downloaded a bunch of examples that have nothing at all to do with databases, which is my principal concern, and so all these graphic examples are of little or no interest to me as a (primarily) database developer. Access 2007 came with a Time&Billing sample that I like a lot. I have customized it to suit my needs. It's the perfect small app for me to learn my chops in: a few tables, a few listforms, a click on the PK opens the one of interest, etc. Can anyone provide me to a few links or samples which will help guide me into this new world? I have built a few apps that do not concern databases (MDI text editor etc.), but I need to move on to the world of DB access, starting with small stuff and gradually escalating to 20-table apps and then 40-table apps and then 100-table apps; I'm assuming that after that, I'll be able to figure out the rest. Meanwhile I have several questions, which may reveal my old-school premises: 1. Why would I want to use DLinq as opposed to firing sprocs? I absolutely have missed the boat on this one. 2. In a 10-table app, how many DataLinks and SQLAdapters etc. do I need? 3, How does one present a GridView upon which a double-click invokes a one-row edit/insert form, then return to the refreshed list? 4. Assuming we're abandoning the convenience of Access's Switchboard menu system, what is proposed instead? 5. I have a UI-problem with the typical hierarchical presentation of data. I do not want a list of Customers to invoke another list of CustomerProjects, and thence their details, and so on. What I want up front is a list of Incomplete Projects, prioritized by Immediacy. Double-clicking on one of those ought to open a tabbed form that lists HoursLogged, ExpensesIncurred, PaymentsMade, and so on. No example that I have yet encountered shows me how to build this sort of app. I'm looking for such an example but failing to find it. Can anyone provide me with such a link? -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Only two businesses refer to their clientele as users: drug dealers and software developers. -- Arthur Fuller _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Feb 4 12:44:37 2012 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2012 13:44:37 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: <00a201cce36a$cf0e4840$6d2ad8c0$@cox.net> References: <00a201cce36a$cf0e4840$6d2ad8c0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <4F2D7C95.209@colbyconsulting.com> Several years ago, Shamil, Mark Breen, Gustav and perhaps a few others did a project to port the MS Northwind Access application to C#. I was supposed to participate but I wasn't up to speed enough on C# to do anything. It might be interesting to do that project again. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 2/4/2012 1:28 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Arthur, > > I can't comment on C# as I use vb.net. But if you want an example project > there is a nice one on Deborah Kurata's website. It is in vb.net but the > principles apply to C#. this is kind of old school as it was for her book > "Doing objects in Visual Basic 2005". Uses stored procedures. I still refer > to this book from time to time. I don't do enough of this type of work to > have gotten into the Entity Framework or other new MS technologies. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:15 AM > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question > > I have been Googling and trying to find something meaningful in the way of > C# sample apps, and falling short just about everywhere I turn. I am trying > to surmount this hurdle. I have downloaded a bunch of examples that have > nothing at all to do with databases, which is my principal concern, and so > all these graphic examples are of little or no interest to me as a > (primarily) database developer. > > Access 2007 came with a Time&Billing sample that I like a lot. I have > customized it to suit my needs. It's the perfect small app for me to learn > my chops in: a few tables, a few listforms, a click on the PK opens the one > of interest, etc. > > Can anyone provide me to a few links or samples which will help guide me > into this new world? I have built a few apps that do not concern databases > (MDI text editor etc.), but I need to move on to the world of DB access, > starting with small stuff and gradually escalating to 20-table apps and > then 40-table apps and then 100-table apps; I'm assuming that after that, > I'll be able to figure out the rest. > > Meanwhile I have several questions, which may reveal my old-school premises: > > 1. Why would I want to use DLinq as opposed to firing sprocs? I absolutely > have missed the boat on this one. > 2. In a 10-table app, how many DataLinks and SQLAdapters etc. do I need? > 3, How does one present a GridView upon which a double-click invokes a > one-row edit/insert form, then return to the refreshed list? > 4. Assuming we're abandoning the convenience of Access's Switchboard menu > system, what is proposed instead? > 5. I have a UI-problem with the typical hierarchical presentation of data. > I do not want a list of Customers to invoke another list of > CustomerProjects, and thence their details, and so on. What I want up front > is a list of Incomplete Projects, prioritized by Immediacy. Double-clicking > on one of those ought to open a tabbed form that lists HoursLogged, > ExpensesIncurred, PaymentsMade, and so on. > > No example that I have yet encountered shows me how to build this sort of > app. I'm looking for such an example but failing to find it. Can anyone > provide me with such a link? > > -- > Arthur > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > Only two businesses refer to their clientele as users: drug dealers and > software developers. > > -- Arthur Fuller > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Sat Feb 4 13:14:26 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 11:14:26 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: <4F2D7C95.209@colbyconsulting.com> References: <00a201cce36a$cf0e4840$6d2ad8c0$@cox.net> <4F2D7C95.209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <663993D3-3A56-48A3-B6FE-3615E8527E2D@phulse.com> Hi Arthur, I don't know quite how extensive you want the sample projects to be, but I just browsed through a book I picked up on C# back when I thought there might be some future in for me in it and it provides some concrete code samples on database integration and access. The book is Professional C# 2008 (Nagel, Evjen, Glynn, Watson, Skinner). There may even be a more recent edition. The book may have a more recent edition, but it is quite comprehensive in all areas of C# (and also very heavy!). - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2012-02-04, at 10:44 AM, jwcolby wrote: > Several years ago, Shamil, Mark Breen, Gustav and perhaps a few others did a project to port the MS Northwind Access application to C#. I was supposed to participate but I wasn't up to speed enough on C# to do anything. > > It might be interesting to do that project again. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 2/4/2012 1:28 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: >> Arthur, >> >> I can't comment on C# as I use vb.net. But if you want an example project >> there is a nice one on Deborah Kurata's website. It is in vb.net but the >> principles apply to C#. this is kind of old school as it was for her book >> "Doing objects in Visual Basic 2005". Uses stored procedures. I still refer >> to this book from time to time. I don't do enough of this type of work to >> have gotten into the Entity Framework or other new MS technologies. >> >> Doug >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:15 AM >> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. >> Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question >> >> I have been Googling and trying to find something meaningful in the way of >> C# sample apps, and falling short just about everywhere I turn. I am trying >> to surmount this hurdle. I have downloaded a bunch of examples that have >> nothing at all to do with databases, which is my principal concern, and so >> all these graphic examples are of little or no interest to me as a >> (primarily) database developer. >> >> Access 2007 came with a Time&Billing sample that I like a lot. I have >> customized it to suit my needs. It's the perfect small app for me to learn >> my chops in: a few tables, a few listforms, a click on the PK opens the one >> of interest, etc. >> >> Can anyone provide me to a few links or samples which will help guide me >> into this new world? I have built a few apps that do not concern databases >> (MDI text editor etc.), but I need to move on to the world of DB access, >> starting with small stuff and gradually escalating to 20-table apps and >> then 40-table apps and then 100-table apps; I'm assuming that after that, >> I'll be able to figure out the rest. >> >> Meanwhile I have several questions, which may reveal my old-school premises: >> >> 1. Why would I want to use DLinq as opposed to firing sprocs? I absolutely >> have missed the boat on this one. >> 2. In a 10-table app, how many DataLinks and SQLAdapters etc. do I need? >> 3, How does one present a GridView upon which a double-click invokes a >> one-row edit/insert form, then return to the refreshed list? >> 4. Assuming we're abandoning the convenience of Access's Switchboard menu >> system, what is proposed instead? >> 5. I have a UI-problem with the typical hierarchical presentation of data. >> I do not want a list of Customers to invoke another list of >> CustomerProjects, and thence their details, and so on. What I want up front >> is a list of Incomplete Projects, prioritized by Immediacy. Double-clicking >> on one of those ought to open a tabbed form that lists HoursLogged, >> ExpensesIncurred, PaymentsMade, and so on. >> >> No example that I have yet encountered shows me how to build this sort of >> app. I'm looking for such an example but failing to find it. Can anyone >> provide me with such a link? >> >> -- >> Arthur >> Cell: 647.710.1314 >> >> Only two businesses refer to their clientele as users: drug dealers and >> software developers. >> >> -- Arthur Fuller >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From paul.hartland at googlemail.com Sat Feb 4 13:29:11 2012 From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 19:29:11 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: <00a201cce36a$cf0e4840$6d2ad8c0$@cox.net> References: <00a201cce36a$cf0e4840$6d2ad8c0$@cox.net> Message-ID: Sorry to but in but I am a VB6 guy (yes I can hear you say god do people still use that lol), I want to teach myself vb.net , C# etc can anyone point me in the direction of a very good vb.net example program that I could download and look at, preferably that will open in visual basic 2008 or 2010 express ? Thanks in advance Paul On 4 February 2012 18:28, Doug Murphy wrote: > Arthur, > > I can't comment on C# as I use vb.net. But if you want an example project > there is a nice one on Deborah Kurata's website. It is in vb.net but the > principles apply to C#. this is kind of old school as it was for her book > "Doing objects in Visual Basic 2005". Uses stored procedures. I still refer > to this book from time to time. I don't do enough of this type of work to > have gotten into the Entity Framework or other new MS technologies. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:15 AM > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question > > I have been Googling and trying to find something meaningful in the way of > C# sample apps, and falling short just about everywhere I turn. I am trying > to surmount this hurdle. I have downloaded a bunch of examples that have > nothing at all to do with databases, which is my principal concern, and so > all these graphic examples are of little or no interest to me as a > (primarily) database developer. > > Access 2007 came with a Time&Billing sample that I like a lot. I have > customized it to suit my needs. It's the perfect small app for me to learn > my chops in: a few tables, a few listforms, a click on the PK opens the one > of interest, etc. > > Can anyone provide me to a few links or samples which will help guide me > into this new world? I have built a few apps that do not concern databases > (MDI text editor etc.), but I need to move on to the world of DB access, > starting with small stuff and gradually escalating to 20-table apps and > then 40-table apps and then 100-table apps; I'm assuming that after that, > I'll be able to figure out the rest. > > Meanwhile I have several questions, which may reveal my old-school > premises: > > 1. Why would I want to use DLinq as opposed to firing sprocs? I absolutely > have missed the boat on this one. > 2. In a 10-table app, how many DataLinks and SQLAdapters etc. do I need? > 3, How does one present a GridView upon which a double-click invokes a > one-row edit/insert form, then return to the refreshed list? > 4. Assuming we're abandoning the convenience of Access's Switchboard menu > system, what is proposed instead? > 5. I have a UI-problem with the typical hierarchical presentation of data. > I do not want a list of Customers to invoke another list of > CustomerProjects, and thence their details, and so on. What I want up front > is a list of Incomplete Projects, prioritized by Immediacy. Double-clicking > on one of those ought to open a tabbed form that lists HoursLogged, > ExpensesIncurred, PaymentsMade, and so on. > > No example that I have yet encountered shows me how to build this sort of > app. I'm looking for such an example but failing to find it. Can anyone > provide me with such a link? > > -- > Arthur > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > Only two businesses refer to their clientele as users: drug dealers and > software developers. > > -- Arthur Fuller > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Paul Hartland paul.hartland at googlemail.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Feb 4 13:30:32 2012 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 13:30:32 -0600 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002401cce373$75f0eed0$61d2cc70$@comcast.net> Hi Arthur, Sorry to do this, but I'm going to steer you off into a different direction. Instead of DataLink, SQLAdapters, etc, you should look hard at LINQ to SQL (L2S). The concept is actually not too far from using Access with local tables with bound forms. It does only work with SQL Server, but the data connection is fast because it's optimized. Just do a search on 'what is LINQ to SQL'. Good Luck, Dan -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:15 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question I have been Googling and trying to find something meaningful in the way of C# sample apps, and falling short just about everywhere I turn. I am trying to surmount this hurdle. I have downloaded a bunch of examples that have nothing at all to do with databases, which is my principal concern, and so all these graphic examples are of little or no interest to me as a (primarily) database developer. Access 2007 came with a Time&Billing sample that I like a lot. I have customized it to suit my needs. It's the perfect small app for me to learn my chops in: a few tables, a few listforms, a click on the PK opens the one of interest, etc. Can anyone provide me to a few links or samples which will help guide me into this new world? I have built a few apps that do not concern databases (MDI text editor etc.), but I need to move on to the world of DB access, starting with small stuff and gradually escalating to 20-table apps and then 40-table apps and then 100-table apps; I'm assuming that after that, I'll be able to figure out the rest. Meanwhile I have several questions, which may reveal my old-school premises: 1. Why would I want to use DLinq as opposed to firing sprocs? I absolutely have missed the boat on this one. 2. In a 10-table app, how many DataLinks and SQLAdapters etc. do I need? 3, How does one present a GridView upon which a double-click invokes a one-row edit/insert form, then return to the refreshed list? 4. Assuming we're abandoning the convenience of Access's Switchboard menu system, what is proposed instead? 5. I have a UI-problem with the typical hierarchical presentation of data. I do not want a list of Customers to invoke another list of CustomerProjects, and thence their details, and so on. What I want up front is a list of Incomplete Projects, prioritized by Immediacy. Double-clicking on one of those ought to open a tabbed form that lists HoursLogged, ExpensesIncurred, PaymentsMade, and so on. No example that I have yet encountered shows me how to build this sort of app. I'm looking for such an example but failing to find it. Can anyone provide me with such a link? -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Only two businesses refer to their clientele as users: drug dealers and software developers. -- Arthur Fuller _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Feb 4 13:31:51 2012 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 13:31:51 -0600 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: References: <00a201cce36a$cf0e4840$6d2ad8c0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <002501cce373$a4def0c0$ee9cd240$@comcast.net> Try http://www.homeandlearn.co.uk/net/vbnet.html Dan -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hartland Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 1:29 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question Sorry to but in but I am a VB6 guy (yes I can hear you say god do people still use that lol), I want to teach myself vb.net , C# etc can anyone point me in the direction of a very good vb.net example program that I could download and look at, preferably that will open in visual basic 2008 or 2010 express ? Thanks in advance Paul On 4 February 2012 18:28, Doug Murphy wrote: > Arthur, > > I can't comment on C# as I use vb.net. But if you want an example > project there is a nice one on Deborah Kurata's website. It is in > vb.net but the principles apply to C#. this is kind of old school as > it was for her book "Doing objects in Visual Basic 2005". Uses stored > procedures. I still refer to this book from time to time. I don't do > enough of this type of work to have gotten into the Entity Framework or other new MS technologies. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:15 AM > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question > > I have been Googling and trying to find something meaningful in the > way of C# sample apps, and falling short just about everywhere I turn. > I am trying to surmount this hurdle. I have downloaded a bunch of > examples that have nothing at all to do with databases, which is my > principal concern, and so all these graphic examples are of little or > no interest to me as a > (primarily) database developer. > > Access 2007 came with a Time&Billing sample that I like a lot. I have > customized it to suit my needs. It's the perfect small app for me to > learn my chops in: a few tables, a few listforms, a click on the PK > opens the one of interest, etc. > > Can anyone provide me to a few links or samples which will help guide > me into this new world? I have built a few apps that do not concern > databases (MDI text editor etc.), but I need to move on to the world > of DB access, starting with small stuff and gradually escalating to > 20-table apps and then 40-table apps and then 100-table apps; I'm > assuming that after that, I'll be able to figure out the rest. > > Meanwhile I have several questions, which may reveal my old-school > premises: > > 1. Why would I want to use DLinq as opposed to firing sprocs? I > absolutely have missed the boat on this one. > 2. In a 10-table app, how many DataLinks and SQLAdapters etc. do I need? > 3, How does one present a GridView upon which a double-click invokes a > one-row edit/insert form, then return to the refreshed list? > 4. Assuming we're abandoning the convenience of Access's Switchboard > menu system, what is proposed instead? > 5. I have a UI-problem with the typical hierarchical presentation of data. > I do not want a list of Customers to invoke another list of > CustomerProjects, and thence their details, and so on. What I want up > front is a list of Incomplete Projects, prioritized by Immediacy. > Double-clicking on one of those ought to open a tabbed form that lists > HoursLogged, ExpensesIncurred, PaymentsMade, and so on. > > No example that I have yet encountered shows me how to build this sort > of app. I'm looking for such an example but failing to find it. Can > anyone provide me with such a link? > > -- > Arthur > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > Only two businesses refer to their clientele as users: drug dealers > and software developers. > > -- Arthur Fuller > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Paul Hartland paul.hartland at googlemail.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Feb 4 14:20:20 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2012 00:20:20 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Actually_a_C=23_Question?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Arthur -- Have a look at http://northwind.codeplex.com/ It presents just a few of myriad possible ways to make .NET (C#) data bound UI and reports with MS Access and MS SQL backends. What is definitely to consider for beginners is to investigate, learn and use C# custom controls - when one develops complex WinForms (or WPF forms or SilverLight forms...) without usage of custom controls they quickly get "spaghetti code nightmare" - and the referred above set of projects does use custom controls... Thank you. -- Shamil 04 ??????? 2012, 22:15 ?? Arthur Fuller : > I have been Googling and trying to find something meaningful in the way of > C# sample apps, and falling short just about everywhere I turn. I am trying > to surmount this hurdle. I have downloaded a bunch of examples that have > nothing at all to do with databases, which is my principal concern, and so > all these graphic examples are of little or no interest to me as a > (primarily) database developer. > > Access 2007 came with a Time&Billing sample that I like a lot. I have > customized it to suit my needs. It's the perfect small app for me to learn > my chops in: a few tables, a few listforms, a click on the PK opens the one > of interest, etc. > > Can anyone provide me to a few links or samples which will help guide me > into this new world? I have built a few apps that do not concern databases > (MDI text editor etc.), but I need to move on to the world of DB access, > starting with small stuff and gradually escalating to 20-table apps and > then 40-table apps and then 100-table apps; I'm assuming that after that, > I'll be able to figure out the rest. > > Meanwhile I have several questions, which may reveal my old-school premises: > > 1. Why would I want to use DLinq as opposed to firing sprocs? I absolutely > have missed the boat on this one. > 2. In a 10-table app, how many DataLinks and SQLAdapters etc. do I need? > 3, How does one present a GridView upon which a double-click invokes a > one-row edit/insert form, then return to the refreshed list? > 4. Assuming we're abandoning the convenience of Access's Switchboard menu > system, what is proposed instead? > 5. I have a UI-problem with the typical hierarchical presentation of data. > I do not want a list of Customers to invoke another list of > CustomerProjects, and thence their details, and so on. What I want up front > is a list of Incomplete Projects, prioritized by Immediacy. Double-clicking > on one of those ought to open a tabbed form that lists HoursLogged, > ExpensesIncurred, PaymentsMade, and so on. > > No example that I have yet encountered shows me how to build this sort of > app. I'm looking for such an example but failing to find it. Can anyone > provide me with such a link? > > -- > Arthur > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > Only two businesses refer to their clientele as users: drug dealers and > software developers. > > -- Arthur Fuller > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From dbdoug at gmail.com Sat Feb 4 14:37:07 2012 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 12:37:07 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you're looking to try ASP.Net, the microsoft website www.asp.net has hundreds of tutorials and videos. www.codeproject.com has lots of examples; the biggest problem I have with them is that the code quality varies. A couple of blogs that I follow are www.hanselman.com and www.dotnetcurry.com Doug On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Arthur -- > > Have a look at http://northwind.codeplex.com/ > > It presents just a few of myriad possible ways to make .NET (C#) data > bound UI and reports with MS Access and MS SQL backends. > What is definitely to consider for beginners is to investigate, learn and > use C# custom controls - when one develops complex WinForms (or WPF forms > or SilverLight forms...) without usage of custom controls they quickly get > "spaghetti code nightmare" - and the referred above set of projects does > use custom controls... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 04 ??????? 2012, 22:15 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > I have been Googling and trying to find something meaningful in the way > of > > C# sample apps, and falling short just about everywhere I turn. I am > trying > > to surmount this hurdle. I have downloaded a bunch of examples that have > > nothing at all to do with databases, which is my principal concern, and > so > > all these graphic examples are of little or no interest to me as a > > (primarily) database developer. > > > > Access 2007 came with a Time&Billing sample that I like a lot. I have > > customized it to suit my needs. It's the perfect small app for me to > learn > > my chops in: a few tables, a few listforms, a click on the PK opens the > one > > of interest, etc. > > > > Can anyone provide me to a few links or samples which will help guide me > > into this new world? I have built a few apps that do not concern > databases > > (MDI text editor etc.), but I need to move on to the world of DB access, > > starting with small stuff and gradually escalating to 20-table apps and > > then 40-table apps and then 100-table apps; I'm assuming that after > that, > > I'll be able to figure out the rest. > > > > Meanwhile I have several questions, which may reveal my old-school > premises: > > > > 1. Why would I want to use DLinq as opposed to firing sprocs? I > absolutely > > have missed the boat on this one. > > 2. In a 10-table app, how many DataLinks and SQLAdapters etc. do I need? > > 3, How does one present a GridView upon which a double-click invokes a > > one-row edit/insert form, then return to the refreshed list? > > 4. Assuming we're abandoning the convenience of Access's Switchboard menu > > system, what is proposed instead? > > 5. I have a UI-problem with the typical hierarchical presentation of > data. > > I do not want a list of Customers to invoke another list of > > CustomerProjects, and thence their details, and so on. What I want up > front > > is a list of Incomplete Projects, prioritized by Immediacy. > Double-clicking > > on one of those ought to open a tabbed form that lists HoursLogged, > > ExpensesIncurred, PaymentsMade, and so on. > > > > No example that I have yet encountered shows me how to build this sort of > > app. I'm looking for such an example but failing to find it. Can anyone > > provide me with such a link? > > > > -- > > Arthur > > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > > > Only two businesses refer to their clientele as users: drug dealers and > > software developers. > > > > -- Arthur Fuller > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Feb 5 13:21:43 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2012 23:21:43 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Actually_a_C=23_Question?= In-Reply-To: <4F2D7C95.209@colbyconsulting.com> References: <00a201cce36a$cf0e4840$6d2ad8c0$@cox.net> <4F2D7C95.209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John at all -- That were Gustav, Mike Mattys and myself who made all the coding, and Mark Breen did provide the host for source code, which was also hosted on http://northwind.codeplex.com The source code has got several conversions since then made here and posted on codeplex. It happened that the main issue to make such a project is coordination and developers who are committing to do some work but then somehow do not have any time for work they commit to do and so to meet deadlines coordinators has to do all the work by themselves... Project was successful as you can see but it required too much "heroism" from some of participants to be called truly successful... To minimize the level of "heroism" there should be first of all one technical task solved, namely: - Visual Studio solution files (.sln) and project files (.csproj (C#)) aren't possible(?) to check-out from a source control system (SVN, or HG, or ...) by several developers in parallel and then check-in back without laborious manual work on resolving collisions, and so within the above mentioned project the decision was to not let VS solution and project files to check-out/check-in at all - and that decision imposed quite some additional work on coordinators... If anybody knows effective resolution of this check-in/check-out of edited/changed VS solution and project files issue then coordination work would become a matter of magnitude less "heroic", still there should be two or more coordinators who commit to actively participate in a project under development and three to ten developers who commit but aren't sure will they have time or not to do the work they commit for - then there are good chances a project will be completed in planned time with low level of "heroism"... I personally currently do not have time to be a coordinator (maybe somewhere summer time this year) but I'd be interested to participate as a developer in any of the projects as the following: - ASP.NET MVC port of the http://northwind.codeplex.com ; - classical ASP.NET port of the http://northwind.codeplex.com; - DotNetNuke modules developed based on http://northwind.codeplex.com; - develop WCF web service for http://northwind.codeplex.com; - SilverLight or WPF port of http://northwind.codeplex.com; - Windows Phone 7 app port of http://northwind.codeplex.com using(?) WCF mentioned above; And most of all I'd be interested to make a project using technique Jim Lawrence mentioned in "Burn-Out" thread in Access-D - something like AFAIU "minimal classic ASP.NET + JavaScript + AJAX + ..." and use existing codebase of http://northwind.codeplex.com if possible... And of course "jQuery Mobile + AJAX(?) + ... " - that's #1 project I'd be interested to participate as a developer not as coordinator as I have very little knowledge of that technology but I suppose it's very promising in developing of modern custom business applications... Please propose any other types of VS projects... Thank you. -- Shamil 04 ??????? 2012, 22:46 ?? jwcolby : > Several years ago, Shamil, Mark Breen, Gustav and perhaps a few others did a project to port the MS > Northwind Access application to C#. I was supposed to participate but I wasn't up to speed enough > on C# to do anything. > > It might be interesting to do that project again. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 2/4/2012 1:28 PM, Doug Murphy wrote: > > Arthur, > > > > I can't comment on C# as I use vb.net. But if you want an example project > > there is a nice one on Deborah Kurata's website. It is in vb.net but the > > principles apply to C#. this is kind of old school as it was for her book > > "Doing objects in Visual Basic 2005". Uses stored procedures. I still refer > > to this book from time to time. I don't do enough of this type of work to > > have gotten into the Entity Framework or other new MS technologies. > > > > Doug > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 10:15 AM > > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > > Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question > > > > I have been Googling and trying to find something meaningful in the way of > > C# sample apps, and falling short just about everywhere I turn. I am trying > > to surmount this hurdle. I have downloaded a bunch of examples that have > > nothing at all to do with databases, which is my principal concern, and so > > all these graphic examples are of little or no interest to me as a > > (primarily) database developer. > > > > Access 2007 came with a Time&Billing sample that I like a lot. I have > > customized it to suit my needs. It's the perfect small app for me to learn > > my chops in: a few tables, a few listforms, a click on the PK opens the one > > of interest, etc. > > > > Can anyone provide me to a few links or samples which will help guide me > > into this new world? I have built a few apps that do not concern databases > > (MDI text editor etc.), but I need to move on to the world of DB access, > > starting with small stuff and gradually escalating to 20-table apps and > > then 40-table apps and then 100-table apps; I'm assuming that after that, > > I'll be able to figure out the rest. > > > > Meanwhile I have several questions, which may reveal my old-school premises: > > > > 1. Why would I want to use DLinq as opposed to firing sprocs? I absolutely > > have missed the boat on this one. > > 2. In a 10-table app, how many DataLinks and SQLAdapters etc. do I need? > > 3, How does one present a GridView upon which a double-click invokes a > > one-row edit/insert form, then return to the refreshed list? > > 4. Assuming we're abandoning the convenience of Access's Switchboard menu > > system, what is proposed instead? > > 5. I have a UI-problem with the typical hierarchical presentation of data. > > I do not want a list of Customers to invoke another list of > > CustomerProjects, and thence their details, and so on. What I want up front > > is a list of Incomplete Projects, prioritized by Immediacy. Double-clicking > > on one of those ought to open a tabbed form that lists HoursLogged, > > ExpensesIncurred, PaymentsMade, and so on. > > > > No example that I have yet encountered shows me how to build this sort of > > app. I'm looking for such an example but failing to find it. Can anyone > > provide me with such a link? > > > > -- > > Arthur > > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > > > Only two businesses refer to their clientele as users: drug dealers and > > software developers. > > > > -- Arthur Fuller > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Feb 5 14:34:16 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 00:34:16 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?ASP=2ENet_WebForms_and_MVC_are_Dead=3F?= Message-ID: Hi All -- FYI: "ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead to Me" By Joe Brinkman on 2/1/2012 12:19 PM http://www.theaccidentalgeek.com/post/2012/02/01/ASPNet-WebForms-and-MVC-are-Dead-to-Me.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Feb 5 21:26:28 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 19:26:28 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CB8D020628C470F82B80EE48283829F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Thanks Shamil: On first blush, the Knockout JavaScript framework looks brilliant. It could easily eliminate a lot of grunt work of putting inter-active data pages together. As long as the project is Open Sourced, not proprietary and lives up to the hype, the assemble will go a long way. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 12:34 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: [dba-VB] ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead? Hi All -- FYI: "ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead to Me" By Joe Brinkman on 2/1/2012 12:19 PM http://www.theaccidentalgeek.com/post/2012/02/01/ASPNet-WebForms-and-MVC-are -Dead-to-Me.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon Feb 6 04:47:20 2012 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 10:47:20 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Shamil, I read this also and in my mind I assigned some credit to it because the author is knowledgeable. What do you think? Can you use those techniques to a) improve time to delivery of code and b) provide same as or better UI ? thanks Mark On 5 February 2012 20:34, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi All -- > > FYI: "ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead to Me" > By Joe Brinkman on 2/1/2012 12:19 PM > > > http://www.theaccidentalgeek.com/post/2012/02/01/ASPNet-WebForms-and-MVC-are-Dead-to-Me.aspx > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Feb 6 05:15:52 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 12:15:52 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question Message-ID: Hi Arthur Yes, listen to Shamil, go and sign up and get our Northwind.net project. It also sports a collection of reports using the (free and) native Reporting Services which you will have to get familiar with unless you wish to pay big bucks for third-party tools. Also, do study the EF, Entity Framework, which frees you from SqlCommand and other low-level stuff. As for LINQ, go to http://www.linqpad.net/ and get the free editor, an excellent tool and tutorial - one of the very few I have paid for to obtain the version with IntelliSense. As for menus, I use a simple treeview style menu which I've found all users understand right away and is simple to expand as the app evolves. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Arthur Fuller Sendt: 4. februar 2012 19:15 Til: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Emne: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question I have been Googling and trying to find something meaningful in the way of C# sample apps, and falling short just about everywhere I turn. I am trying to surmount this hurdle. I have downloaded a bunch of examples that have nothing at all to do with databases, which is my principal concern, and so all these graphic examples are of little or no interest to me as a (primarily) database developer. Access 2007 came with a Time&Billing sample that I like a lot. I have customized it to suit my needs. It's the perfect small app for me to learn my chops in: a few tables, a few listforms, a click on the PK opens the one of interest, etc. Can anyone provide me to a few links or samples which will help guide me into this new world? I have built a few apps that do not concern databases (MDI text editor etc.), but I need to move on to the world of DB access, starting with small stuff and gradually escalating to 20-table apps and then 40-table apps and then 100-table apps; I'm assuming that after that, I'll be able to figure out the rest. Meanwhile I have several questions, which may reveal my old-school premises: 1. Why would I want to use DLinq as opposed to firing sprocs? I absolutely have missed the boat on this one. 2. In a 10-table app, how many DataLinks and SQLAdapters etc. do I need? 3, How does one present a GridView upon which a double-click invokes a one-row edit/insert form, then return to the refreshed list? 4. Assuming we're abandoning the convenience of Access's Switchboard menu system, what is proposed instead? 5. I have a UI-problem with the typical hierarchical presentation of data. I do not want a list of Customers to invoke another list of CustomerProjects, and thence their details, and so on. What I want up front is a list of Incomplete Projects, prioritized by Immediacy. Double-clicking on one of those ought to open a tabbed form that lists HoursLogged, ExpensesIncurred, PaymentsMade, and so on. No example that I have yet encountered shows me how to build this sort of app. I'm looking for such an example but failing to find it. Can anyone provide me with such a link? -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Only two businesses refer to their clientele as users: drug dealers and software developers. -- Arthur Fuller From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Feb 6 05:16:42 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 12:16:42 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead? Message-ID: Hi Shamil Not completely dead, as he admits in the last paragraph, but the Knockout site is certainly interesting with a lot of stuff to investigate. Thanks! /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-02-2012 21:34 >>> Hi All -- FYI: "ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead to Me" By Joe Brinkman on 2/1/2012 12:19 PM http://www.theaccidentalgeek.com/post/2012/02/01/ASPNet-WebForms-and-MVC-are-Dead-to-Me.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Feb 6 07:11:57 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:11:57 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?ASP=2ENet_WebForms_and_MVC_are_Dead=3F?= In-Reply-To: <4CB8D020628C470F82B80EE48283829F@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4CB8D020628C470F82B80EE48283829F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- Does KnockoutJS lets to eliminates (quite some) work you're doing currently manually using HTML forms binding technique your mentioned in one of Access-D threads? BTW, how do you do reporting (/what technology do you use for reporting) in your "lightweight" ASP.NET apps? Thank you. -- Shamil 06 ??????? 2012, 07:26 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > Thanks Shamil: > > On first blush, the Knockout JavaScript framework looks brilliant. > > It could easily eliminate a lot of grunt work of putting inter-active data > pages together. As long as the project is Open Sourced, not proprietary and > lives up to the hype, the assemble will go a long way. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 12:34 PM > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > Subject: [dba-VB] ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead? > > Hi All -- > > FYI: "ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead to Me" > By Joe Brinkman on 2/1/2012 12:19 PM > > http://www.theaccidentalgeek.com/post/2012/02/01/ASPNet-WebForms-and-MVC-are > -Dead-to-Me.aspx > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Feb 6 07:22:41 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:22:41 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?ASP=2ENet_WebForms_and_MVC_are_Dead=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- Yes, "not completely dead" - for CMS like DotNetNuke classical ASP.NET and ASP.NET MVC would be in use for quite some time but for business applications I'd "bet" on pure HTML forms, JavaScript, AJAX, (RESTFul(?)) web services... Although I have no clear idea what reporting solution to use for such a "pure HTML forms" based business applications: should that "pure HTML Forms" app be still driven by classical ASP.NET engine to be able to use MS ReportViewer Control for reporting? Thank you. -- Shamil 06 ??????? 2012, 15:10 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > Not completely dead, as he admits in the last paragraph, but the Knockout site is certainly interesting with a lot of stuff to investigate. > Thanks! > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-02-2012 21:34 >>> > Hi All -- > > FYI: "ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead to Me" > By Joe Brinkman on 2/1/2012 12:19 PM > > http://www.theaccidentalgeek.com/post/2012/02/01/ASPNet-WebForms-and-MVC-are-Dead-to-Me.aspx > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Feb 6 07:34:04 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:34:04 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?ASP=2ENet_WebForms_and_MVC_are_Dead=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark -- I have also "assigned some credit to it because the author is knowledgeable" and also because, I suppose, Jim Lawrence is working in the same direction and Jim is knowledgeable for sure...? >?Can you use those techniques to a) improve time to delivery of code and b) provide same as or better UI ? a) it should be probably comparable with classical ASP.NET Web Forms applications ("there is no miracles in this world")... b) it would provide better, more intuitive UI, better response time - definitely I suppose... Thank you. -- Shamil 06 ??????? 2012, 14:47 ?? Mark Breen : Hi Shamil, I read this also and in my mind I assigned some credit to it because the author is?knowledgeable. What do you think?? Can you use those techniques to a) improve time to delivery of code and b) provide same as or better UI ? thanks Mark On 5 February 2012 20:34, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: Hi All -- FYI: "ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead to Me" By Joe Brinkman on 2/1/2012 12:19 PM http://www.theaccidentalgeek.com/post/2012/02/01/ASPNet-WebForms-and-MVC-are-Dead-to-Me.aspx Thank you. -- Shamil _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Feb 6 08:11:46 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 15:11:46 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead? Message-ID: Hi Shamil Good question. >From time to time I think about a "back-office" engine producing predefined reports from materialized data. Then the web client could just produce the parameters and the name of the report, send these to the queue at the engine, and the report could be picked from a link, saved as a PDF, or somehow else. Problem is that this may not be what users expect if they are used to a desktop app where reports normally pop up in a new window. However, reports with aggregated data - as most reports have - could be produced faster or at least without waiting time for the user. And the client could be anything, even a phone app. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 06-02-2012 14:22:41 >>> Hi Gustav -- Yes, "not completely dead" - for CMS like DotNetNuke classical ASP.NET and ASP.NET MVC would be in use for quite some time but for business applications I'd "bet" on pure HTML forms, JavaScript, AJAX, (RESTFul(?)) web services... Although I have no clear idea what reporting solution to use for such a "pure HTML forms" based business applications: should that "pure HTML Forms" app be still driven by classical ASP.NET engine to be able to use MS ReportViewer Control for reporting? Thank you. -- Shamil 06 ??????? 2012, 15:10 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > Not completely dead, as he admits in the last paragraph, but the Knockout site is certainly interesting with a lot of stuff to investigate. > Thanks! > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-02-2012 21:34 >>> > Hi All -- > > FYI: "ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead to Me" > By Joe Brinkman on 2/1/2012 12:19 PM > > http://www.theaccidentalgeek.com/post/2012/02/01/ASPNet-WebForms-and-MVC-are-Dead-to-Me.aspx > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Feb 6 08:36:04 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 18:36:04 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?ASP=2ENet_WebForms_and_MVC_are_Dead=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- Yes, reports with aggregated data, one page reports, can be generated as pure HTML on server or even client side using JavaScript. But what about drill-down reports? - that should be probably programmed as drill-down html forms using JavaScript?... And what about multi-page "ordinary reports"? There should be "something" to properly calculate such reports pagination for a currently rendered page to always fit a report page height? If there wouldn't be such a need to properly generate pagination then taking from server side each report's page with fixed qty of records on every page would be rather easy task - e.g. it can be done for MS SQL by using Cast(ROW_NUMBER() over (ORDER BY ... and then again report pages can be generated even on client side as pure HTML. Although to print/pdf all pages of such reports there should be a "parallel" report created, e.g. using MS Report Viewer based server side reports... And there could be also (live) charts in reports, that could be generated on client side using JavaScript?... Questions, questions.... Thank you. -- Shamil 06 ??????? 2012, 18:05 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > Good question. > > From time to time I think about a "back-office" engine producing predefined reports from materialized data. Then the web client could just produce the parameters and the name of the report, send these to the queue at the engine, and the report could be picked from a link, saved as a PDF, or somehow else. Problem is that this may not be what users expect if they are used to a desktop app where reports normally pop up in a new window. > > However, reports with aggregated data - as most reports have - could be produced faster or at least without waiting time for the user. And the client could be anything, even a phone app. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 06-02-2012 14:22:41 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > Yes, "not completely dead" - for CMS like DotNetNuke classical ASP.NET and ASP.NET MVC would be in use for quite some time but for business applications I'd "bet" on pure HTML forms, JavaScript, AJAX, (RESTFul(?)) web services... > > Although I have no clear idea what reporting solution to use for such a "pure HTML forms" based business applications: should that "pure HTML Forms" app be still driven by classical ASP.NET engine to be able to use MS ReportViewer Control for reporting? > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 06 ??????? 2012, 15:10 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Shamil > > > > Not completely dead, as he admits in the last paragraph, but the Knockout site is certainly interesting with a lot of stuff to investigate. > > Thanks! > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-02-2012 21:34 >>> > > Hi All -- > > > > FYI: "ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead to Me" > > By Joe Brinkman on 2/1/2012 12:19 PM > > > > http://www.theaccidentalgeek.com/post/2012/02/01/ASPNet-WebForms-and-MVC-are-Dead-to-Me.aspx > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Feb 6 09:13:26 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 10:13:26 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I downloaded and unzipped the Northwind.NET, but I ran into trouble when trying to attach the included database. I should point out that I'm using SQL 2008 R2. I noticed that the readme assumes SQL 2005. It could be that my installation of R2 is faulty, but other dbs seem to open OK. I'll veryify that and if everything seems operational, I'll copy the NorthwindNET database and log files to to my default db location (d:\sqldata). I don't really want to go back to SQL 2005 just to get this project working. Has anyone successfully built this to run on SQL 2008 or later? One more question: I have Northwind.MDF installed and attached successfully. . Are there any significant differences between the two, or can I just use it instead? Thanks for the study guide, Gustav! -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest. -Isaac Asimov From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Feb 6 09:25:42 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:25:42 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead? Message-ID: Hi Shamil Reporting Services is the best bet I can find at the moment (at reasonable cost) as these can be output as html, pdf, and xls. More importantly, the need for ordering a report as XML data will rise in the future. For example, here all corporations' report of the year including balance, income, specifications, notes, etc for the authorities must as of this year be supplied as XML formatted data, not on paper. As for drill down, I'm not a firm believer in this. Drill down belongs to the user interface, if you ask me, as you are viewing the result. I've never met a request for a report where you could drill down, say, one order and then have a hardcopy with this order expanded and all other orders collapsed. Or could you - or anyone else - provide some good example where drill down to hardcopy is useful? /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 06-02-2012 15:36:04 >>> Hi Gustav -- Yes, reports with aggregated data, one page reports, can be generated as pure HTML on server or even client side using JavaScript. But what about drill-down reports? - that should be probably programmed as drill-down html forms using JavaScript?... And what about multi-page "ordinary reports"? There should be "something" to properly calculate such reports pagination for a currently rendered page to always fit a report page height? If there wouldn't be such a need to properly generate pagination then taking from server side each report's page with fixed qty of records on every page would be rather easy task - e.g. it can be done for MS SQL by using Cast(ROW_NUMBER() over (ORDER BY ... and then again report pages can be generated even on client side as pure HTML. Although to print/pdf all pages of such reports there should be a "parallel" report created, e.g. using MS Report Viewer based server side reports... And there could be also (live) charts in reports, that could be generated on client side using JavaScript?... Questions, questions.... Thank you. -- Shamil 06 ??????? 2012, 18:05 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > Good question. > > From time to time I think about a "back-office" engine producing predefined reports from materialized data. Then the web client could just produce the parameters and the name of the report, send these to the queue at the engine, and the report could be picked from a link, saved as a PDF, or somehow else. Problem is that this may not be what users expect if they are used to a desktop app where reports normally pop up in a new window. > > However, reports with aggregated data - as most reports have - could be produced faster or at least without waiting time for the user. And the client could be anything, even a phone app. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 06-02-2012 14:22:41 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > Yes, "not completely dead" - for CMS like DotNetNuke classical ASP.NET and ASP.NET MVC would be in use for quite some time but for business applications I'd "bet" on pure HTML forms, JavaScript, AJAX, (RESTFul(?)) web services... > > Although I have no clear idea what reporting solution to use for such a "pure HTML forms" based business applications: should that "pure HTML Forms" app be still driven by classical ASP.NET engine to be able to use MS ReportViewer Control for reporting? > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 06 ??????? 2012, 15:10 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Shamil > > > > Not completely dead, as he admits in the last paragraph, but the Knockout site is certainly interesting with a lot of stuff to investigate. > > Thanks! > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-02-2012 21:34 >>> > > Hi All -- > > > > FYI: "ASP.Net WebForms and MVC are Dead to Me" > > By Joe Brinkman on 2/1/2012 12:19 PM > > > > http://www.theaccidentalgeek.com/post/2012/02/01/ASPNet-WebForms-and-MVC-are-Dead-to-Me.aspx > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Feb 6 09:22:55 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 10:22:55 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, I have successfully attached the NorthwindNET database and I seem to be able to browse the tables OK, so I guess I'm off and running. one thing did puzzle me -- the full name of the database is E:\MyProjects\Scrum\NorthWind.NET0.99 etc. Is there a reason for all that? Is it safe to rename the db simply to NorthWindNET? A. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Feb 6 09:45:18 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 19:45:18 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Actually_a_C=23_Question?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Arthur -- I will come back with recommendations in half an hour - I just have to check what is the shortest way for you to get up&running... Quick notes: Basically, MS SQL 2005 dB should be possible to attach to MS SQL 2008 R2. Database file name is NorthwindNET.mdf Thank you. -- Shamil 06 ??????? 2012, 19:23 ?? Arthur Fuller : > Well, I have successfully attached the NorthwindNET database and I seem to > be able to browse the tables OK, so I guess I'm off and running. one thing > did puzzle me -- the full name of the database is > E:\MyProjects\Scrum\NorthWind.NET0.99 etc. Is there a reason for all that? > Is it safe to rename the db simply to NorthWindNET? > > A. > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Feb 6 10:21:13 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 20:21:13 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Actually_a_C=23_Question?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Arthur, I'm back in half an hour as promised: To get your NorthwindNET sample database and sample ADO.NET EF application up&running with your MS SQL 2008 R2 database server you can do the following: 1. Create MS SQL 2008 R2 NorthwindNET empty database 2. Go to http://northwind.codeplex.com/releases/view/60382 and download NorthwindNET DB MS SQL 2008 R2 Backup or directly download http://northwind.codeplex.com/releases/view/60382#DownloadId=339047 3. You'll get NorthwindNET_SQL2008R2.zip downloaded. Unzip it, and use unzipped NorthwindNET_SQL2008R2.bak to restore NorthwindNET database over your empty NorthwindNET database created on step 1. 4. Download NorthwindNETSampleApps_Setup.zip from http://northwind.codeplex.com/releases/view/60382 or directly from http://northwind.codeplex.com/releases/view/60382#DownloadId=205449 5. Unzip NorthwindNETSampleApps_Setup.zip into NorthwindNETSampleApps_Setup.exe (INNO-Setup Setup) and run that unzipped INNO-Setup setup. When setup starts on second setup dialog change target setup folder to any one you'd like to have instead of default one, proposed by setup. 6. Look at created setup files, find Northwind.NET.EDM.FE.exe.config file, open it in a text editor and edit string Data Source=NAPOLI\SQLEXPRESS into Data Source={{Your MS SQL 2008 R2 Server name}} 6. Run Northwind.NET.EDM.FE.exe 7. Enjoy :) --- --- How to successfully build and run sample solutions --- 1. In the source solutions folders (the are several ones there) look for app.config files and again edit Data Source = {{Something}} to Data Source={{Your MS SQL 2008 R2 Server name}} 2. Compile, build and run sample solutions Basically it's all simple when you've got accustomed to work with VS 2010 solutions but it will probably take some time from you as you're still learning this stuff... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. There are some Readme.!st files and folders within sample app and sample solutions folders - look for them and read them - they will give some more explanations... 06 ??????? 2012, 19:46 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil : > > Hi Arthur -- > > I will come back with recommendations in half an hour - I just have to check what is the shortest way for you to get up&running... > > Quick notes: > > Basically, MS SQL 2005 dB should be possible to attach to MS SQL 2008 R2. > Database file name is NorthwindNET.mdf > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 06 ??????? 2012, 19:23 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > Well, I have successfully attached the NorthwindNET database and I seem to > > be able to browse the tables OK, so I guess I'm off and running. one thing > > did puzzle me -- the full name of the database is > > E:\MyProjects\Scrum\NorthWind.NET0.99 etc. Is there a reason for all that? > > Is it safe to rename the db simply to NorthWindNET? > > > > A. > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Feb 6 12:22:49 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 13:22:49 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah! The sweet smell of success. I'm up and runninng with the sample_apps and I didn't even bother with the R2 database backup. I seem to be fine as it is. Putting on my scuba gear and preparing to dive in. A. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Feb 6 12:30:17 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 13:30:17 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shamil and Gustav, You incompetent buffoons! The app runs fine, but you spelled "Quarterly" incorrectly! Off with your heads! :) Thanks for this. I suspect I'm going to learn a lot from it. A. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Ah! The sweet smell of success. I'm up and runninng with the sample_apps > and I didn't even bother with the R2 database backup. I seem to be fine as > it is. Putting on my scuba gear and preparing to dive in. > > A. > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Feb 6 13:59:25 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 23:59:25 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Actually_a_C=23_Question?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Arthur --- Thank you for your note :) That should be my fault with spelling as Gustav is known to have perfect English... Take it easy, please, you may find more spelling errors there I suppose as well as other issues: please take into account that source code was developed in a very stressful mode, in a very short time in parallel to real life projects development, with very limited ?(close to none) code review/feedback - in fact you'll see there the first/second version of code, which would need quite some reviewing and refactoring... Any feedback and new ideas in what direction to develop this project are very welcome... Thank you. -- Shamil 06 ??????? 2012, 22:30 ?? Arthur Fuller : Shamil and Gustav, You incompetent buffoons! The app runs fine, but you spelled "Quarterly" incorrectly! Off with your heads! :) Thanks for this. I suspect I'm going to learn a lot from it. A. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: Ah! The sweet smell of success. I'm up and runninng with the sample_apps and I didn't even bother with the R2 database backup. I seem to be fine as it is. Putting on my scuba ?gear and preparing to dive in. A. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Feb 6 14:07:00 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:07:00 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4F3032E4.26892.345B8E3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And didn't I see 0.99 there, clearly showing it as a Beta release ? :) On 6 Feb 2012 at 23:59, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Arthur --- > > Thank you for your note :) > That should be my fault with spelling as Gustav is known to have perfect English... > > Take it easy, please, you may find more spelling errors there I suppose as well as other issues: please take into account that source code was developed in a very stressful mode, in a very short time in parallel to real life projects development, with very limited ?(close to none) code review/feedback - in fact you'll see there the first/second version of code, which would need quite some reviewing and refactoring... > > Any feedback and new ideas in what direction to develop this project are very welcome... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > 06 2012, 22:30 Arthur Fuller : > > > Shamil and Gustav, > > You incompetent buffoons! The app runs fine, but you spelled "Quarterly" incorrectly! Off with your heads! :) > > Thanks for this. I suspect I'm going to learn a lot from it. > > A. > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Ah! The sweet smell of success. I'm up and runninng with the sample_apps and I didn't even bother with the R2 database backup. I seem to be fine as it is. Putting on my scuba ?gear and preparing to dive in. > > A. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Feb 6 14:29:54 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 00:29:54 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Actually_a_C=23_Question?= In-Reply-To: <4F3032E4.26892.345B8E3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4F3032E4.26892.345B8E3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart -- Thank you for your helping hand. Unfortunately the last release is set as v. 2.1 (31-JAN-11) so I can't tell it being a Beta release to withstand Arthur's "attacks" :) Thank you. -- Shamil 07 ??????? 2012, 00:07 ?? "Stuart McLachlan" : > And didn't I see 0.99 there, clearly showing it as a Beta release ? :) > > On 6 Feb 2012 at 23:59, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Arthur --- > > > > Thank you for your note :) > > That should be my fault with spelling as Gustav is known to have perfect English... > > > > Take it easy, please, you may find more spelling errors there I suppose as well as other issues: please take into account that source code was developed in a very stressful mode, in a very short time in parallel to real life projects development, with very limited ?(close to none) code review/feedback - in fact you'll see there the first/second version of code, which would need quite some reviewing and refactoring... > > > > Any feedback and new ideas in what direction to develop this project are very welcome... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > 06 2012, 22:30 Arthur Fuller : > > > > > > Shamil and Gustav, > > > > You incompetent buffoons! The app runs fine, but you spelled "Quarterly" incorrectly! Off with your heads! :) > > > > Thanks for this. I suspect I'm going to learn a lot from it. > > > > A. > > > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > Ah! The sweet smell of success. I'm up and runninng with the sample_apps and I didn't even bother with the R2 database backup. I seem to be fine as it is. Putting on my scuba ?gear and preparing to dive in. > > > > A. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Feb 7 10:54:24 2012 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 11:54:24 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] VS 2010 C# Referencing Ionic.Zip Message-ID: <4F315740.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> I use the Ionic.Zip library to zip files up. We have consistently had issues making references like this work across all of our projects, to the point where we created a References directory under the Projects directory and placed all of the DLLs into that for source control. This allows us to "pull" these files and get the latest versions, and then any project references that same physical file. I am still having a problem with this Ionic.Zip.Dll file. I reference it. The reference does not give the "broken" icon. Using works just fine. But when the line of code hits the call into the function where it would actually create a variable, it stops and complains that the DLL file cannot be found. I am a bit confused for several reasons. First why is it stopping on the function call rather than down in the function itself where the zip object is dimensioned? Second why is it complaining at all when the rest of the program apparently thinks things are fine? No compile errors, no using complaints no references complaints. Weird! I have seen places where the using collection in the project says the thing (suddenly) cannot be found, and I have to delete and re-reference the object, but in this case there is just no indication anywhere that there is a problem until we hit the function call to the function inside of which I do the compression stuff. Any ideas? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it From michael at mattysconsulting.com Tue Feb 7 11:20:11 2012 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 12:20:11 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] VS 2010 C# Referencing Ionic.Zip In-Reply-To: <4F315740.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4F315740.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001d01cce5bc$c077f0c0$4167d240$@mattysconsulting.com> Sometimes this works: Copy all the text from the module to notepad, delete the module, compact and repair, paste text into a new module, then compile Michael R Mattys Mattys Consulting, LLC www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 11:54 AM To: VBA Subject: [dba-VB] VS 2010 C# Referencing Ionic.Zip I use the Ionic.Zip library to zip files up. We have consistently had issues making references like this work across all of our projects, to the point where we created a References directory under the Projects directory and placed all of the DLLs into that for source control. This allows us to "pull" these files and get the latest versions, and then any project references that same physical file. I am still having a problem with this Ionic.Zip.Dll file. I reference it. The reference does not give the "broken" icon. Using works just fine. But when the line of code hits the call into the function where it would actually create a variable, it stops and complains that the DLL file cannot be found. I am a bit confused for several reasons. First why is it stopping on the function call rather than down in the function itself where the zip object is dimensioned? Second why is it complaining at all when the rest of the program apparently thinks things are fine? No compile errors, no using complaints no references complaints. Weird! I have seen places where the using collection in the project says the thing (suddenly) cannot be found, and I have to delete and re-reference the object, but in this case there is just no indication anywhere that there is a problem until we hit the function call to the function inside of which I do the compression stuff. Any ideas? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael at mattysconsulting.com Tue Feb 7 15:42:51 2012 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 16:42:51 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] VS 2010 C# Referencing Ionic.Zip In-Reply-To: <001d01cce5bc$c077f0c0$4167d240$@mattysconsulting.com> References: <4F315740.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> <001d01cce5bc$c077f0c0$4167d240$@mattysconsulting.com> Message-ID: <003f01cce5e1$71efe050$55cfa0f0$@mattysconsulting.com> This message got mixed in with Access-D :) Even so, I've had to do this before with VS2010. Michael R Mattys Mattys Consulting, LLC www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 12:20 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VS 2010 C# Referencing Ionic.Zip Sometimes this works: Copy all the text from the module to notepad, delete the module, compact and repair, paste text into a new module, then compile Michael R Mattys Mattys Consulting, LLC www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 11:54 AM To: VBA Subject: [dba-VB] VS 2010 C# Referencing Ionic.Zip I use the Ionic.Zip library to zip files up. We have consistently had issues making references like this work across all of our projects, to the point where we created a References directory under the Projects directory and placed all of the DLLs into that for source control. This allows us to "pull" these files and get the latest versions, and then any project references that same physical file. I am still having a problem with this Ionic.Zip.Dll file. I reference it. The reference does not give the "broken" icon. Using works just fine. But when the line of code hits the call into the function where it would actually create a variable, it stops and complains that the DLL file cannot be found. I am a bit confused for several reasons. First why is it stopping on the function call rather than down in the function itself where the zip object is dimensioned? Second why is it complaining at all when the rest of the program apparently thinks things are fine? No compile errors, no using complaints no references complaints. Weird! I have seen places where the using collection in the project says the thing (suddenly) cannot be found, and I have to delete and re-reference the object, but in this case there is just no indication anywhere that there is a problem until we hit the function call to the function inside of which I do the compression stuff. Any ideas? -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Thu Feb 9 01:46:40 2012 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 18:46:40 +1100 Subject: [dba-VB] VS 2010 C# Referencing Ionic.Zip References: <4F315740.7050504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <99266C61B516644D9727F983FAFAB46511BB1F@remote.ddisolutions.com.au> Hi JC, Don't we all hate it when stuff like this happens! Subject: [dba-VB] VS 2010 C# Referencing Ionic.Zip I use the Ionic.Zip library to zip files up. We have consistently had issues making references like this work across all of our projects, to the point where we created a References directory under the Projects directory and placed all of the DLLs into that for source control. This allows us to "pull" these files and get the latest versions, and then any project references that same physical file. >>> I'm not sure about your process above. >>> What I generally do with 3rd party dll's is add the ref and then set the 'Copy Local' property to true. That way the project will only use the version I let it use. This way it gets copied to bin when building. I am still having a problem with this Ionic.Zip.Dll file. I reference it. The reference does not give the "broken" icon. Using works just fine. But when the line of code hits the call into the function where it would actually create a variable, it stops and complains that the DLL file cannot be found. >>> DO you have error handlers? >>> What's the error? >>> I assume you have tried setting watches on the variable? >>> Can you set a break point? I am a bit confused for several reasons. First why is it stopping on the function call rather than down in the function itself where the zip object is dimensioned? Second why is it complaining at all when the rest of the program apparently thinks things are fine? No compile errors, no using complaints no references complaints. >>> Error bubbling up? >>> Confusion about versions? >>> Is the dll a COM or .net dll? >>> You say there are no compile errors, what about warnings? >>> Is the code in a separate project? Is it getting compiled/built before you calling code or after? Weird! I have seen places where the using collection in the project says the thing (suddenly) cannot be found, and I have to delete and re-reference the object, but in this case there is just no indication anywhere that there is a problem until we hit the function call to the function inside of which I do the compression stuff. >>> IIRC I believe this is because of garbage collection. Never been a problem for me yet... Any ideas? >>> Maybe. HTH Michael M -- John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2109/4797 - Release Date: 02/08/12 From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Feb 9 04:59:38 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:59:38 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question Message-ID: Hi Shamil As I recall it, the SVN worked fine except for the database connection string in the config file. So either you have to edit that string after each check-in, or you had to exclude the config file from the versioning system. And isn't it so that you can exclude the sln file in any case. Isn't it mostly for your local setup and won't change much as long as its collection of projects is not changed? I haven't looked into this - normally it "just works". /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-02-2012 20:21 >>> To minimize the level of "heroism" there should be first of all one technical task solved, namely: - Visual Studio solution files (.sln) and project files (.csproj (C#)) aren't possible(?) to check-out from a source control system (SVN, or HG, or ...) by several developers in parallel and then check-in back without laborious manual work on resolving collisions, and so within the above mentioned project the decision was to not let VS solution and project files to check-out/check-in at all - and that decision imposed quite some additional work on coordinators... If anybody knows effective resolution of this check-in/check-out of edited/changed VS solution and project files issue then coordination work would become a matter of magnitude less "heroic", still there should be two or more coordinators who commit to actively participate in a project under development and three to ten developers who commit but aren't sure will they have time or not to do the work they commit for - then there are good chances a project will be completed in planned time with low level of "heroism"... From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Feb 9 05:57:09 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:57:09 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Actually_a_C=23_Question?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- I mainly meant project files (.csproj for C#) Try to add/delete/rename project items for the same project on two different PCs. Then try to merge changed projects into common source code repository... Thank you. -- Shamil 09 ??????? 2012, 14:54 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > As I recall it, the SVN worked fine except for the database connection string in the config file. So either you have to edit that string after each check-in, or you had to exclude the config file from the versioning system. > > And isn't it so that you can exclude the sln file in any case. Isn't it mostly for your local setup and won't change much as long as its collection of projects is not changed? I haven't looked into this - normally it "just works". > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-02-2012 20:21 >>> > > To minimize the level of "heroism" there should be first of all one technical task solved, namely: > > - Visual Studio solution files (.sln) and project files (.csproj (C#)) aren't possible(?) to check-out from a source control system (SVN, or HG, or ...) by several developers in parallel and then check-in back without laborious manual work on resolving collisions, and so within the above mentioned project the decision was to not let VS solution and project files to check-out/check-in at all - and that decision imposed quite some additional work on coordinators... > > If anybody knows effective resolution of this check-in/check-out of edited/changed VS solution and project files issue then coordination work would become a matter of magnitude less "heroic", still there should be two or more coordinators who commit to actively participate in a project under development and three to ten developers who commit but aren't sure will they have time or not to do the work they commit for - then there are good chances a project will be completed in planned time with low level of "heroism"... > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Feb 9 06:31:18 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:31:18 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question Message-ID: Hi Shamil No, I haven't tried that. Thanks for the warning. Now, this is nothing compared to the troubles with LightSwitch. This _insists_ on a local SQLEXPRESS instance. So what to do if you switch workstation (home and work for example)? You would need a setup with a SQL Server replication master having the different SQLEXPRESS instances as replication slaves. Or? /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 09-02-2012 12:57 >>> Hi Gustav -- I mainly meant project files (.csproj for C#) Try to add/delete/rename project items for the same project on two different PCs. Then try to merge changed projects into common source code repository... Thank you. -- Shamil 09 ??????? 2012, 14:54 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > As I recall it, the SVN worked fine except for the database connection string in the config file. So either you have to edit that string after each check-in, or you had to exclude the config file from the versioning system. > > And isn't it so that you can exclude the sln file in any case. Isn't it mostly for your local setup and won't change much as long as its collection of projects is not changed? I haven't looked into this - normally it "just works". > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-02-2012 20:21 >>> > > To minimize the level of "heroism" there should be first of all one technical task solved, namely: > > - Visual Studio solution files (.sln) and project files (.csproj (C#)) aren't possible(?) to check-out from a source control system (SVN, or HG, or ...) by several developers in parallel and then check-in back without laborious manual work on resolving collisions, and so within the above mentioned project the decision was to not let VS solution and project files to check-out/check-in at all - and that decision imposed quite some additional work on coordinators... > > If anybody knows effective resolution of this check-in/check-out of edited/changed VS solution and project files issue then coordination work would become a matter of magnitude less "heroic", still there should be two or more coordinators who commit to actively participate in a project under development and three to ten developers who commit but aren't sure will they have time or not to do the work they commit for - then there are good chances a project will be completed in planned time with low level of "heroism"... > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Feb 9 06:51:25 2012 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:51:25 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F33C14D.2010001@colbyconsulting.com> >You would need a setup with a SQL Server replication master having the different SQLEXPRESS instances as replication slaves. Or? Wait for it to grow up a little? John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 2/9/2012 7:31 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Shamil > > No, I haven't tried that. Thanks for the warning. > > Now, this is nothing compared to the troubles with LightSwitch. This _insists_ on a local SQLEXPRESS instance. So what to do if you switch workstation (home and work for example)? You would need a setup with a SQL Server replication master having the different SQLEXPRESS instances as replication slaves. Or? > > /gustav > > >>>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 09-02-2012 12:57>>> > Hi Gustav -- > > I mainly meant project files (.csproj for C#) > > Try to add/delete/rename project items for the same project on two different PCs. > Then try to merge changed projects into common source code repository... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 09 ??????? 2012, 14:54 ?? "Gustav Brock": >> Hi Shamil >> >> As I recall it, the SVN worked fine except for the database connection string in the config file. So either you have to edit that string after each check-in, or you had to exclude the config file from the versioning system. >> >> And isn't it so that you can exclude the sln file in any case. Isn't it mostly for your local setup and won't change much as long as its collection of projects is not changed? I haven't looked into this - normally it "just works". >> >> /gustav >> >>>>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-02-2012 20:21>>> >> >> To minimize the level of "heroism" there should be first of all one technical task solved, namely: >> >> - Visual Studio solution files (.sln) and project files (.csproj (C#)) aren't possible(?) to check-out from a source control system (SVN, or HG, or ...) by several developers in parallel and then check-in back without laborious manual work on resolving collisions, and so within the above mentioned project the decision was to not let VS solution and project files to check-out/check-in at all - and that decision imposed quite some additional work on coordinators... >> >> If anybody knows effective resolution of this check-in/check-out of edited/changed VS solution and project files issue then coordination work would become a matter of magnitude less "heroic", still there should be two or more coordinators who commit to actively participate in a project under development and three to ten developers who commit but aren't sure will they have time or not to do the work they commit for - then there are good chances a project will be completed in planned time with low level of "heroism"... >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Feb 9 07:06:41 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 08:06:41 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Is this the right place? Message-ID: Is this the right place for messages concerning C#? I have some questions about the NorthWindNET project. -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree, is by accident. That's where we come in; we're computer professionals. We cause accidents. -Nathaniel Borenstein From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Feb 9 07:15:09 2012 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 08:15:09 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Is this the right place? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F33C6DD.5010202@colbyconsulting.com> Uhhh yep! John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 2/9/2012 8:06 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Is this the right place for messages concerning C#? I have some questions > about the NorthWindNET project. > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Feb 9 07:24:11 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 08:24:11 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] NorthwindNET question Message-ID: I have got the sample up and running, and all the sources installed. There are so many packages etc. that I'm overwhelmed, to say the least. 1. Where should I begin investigating the source code? 2. Several of the single-form displays (forgive the Access anachronism) seem not to have navigation buttons. Is this by design or is there some reason for this? -- Arthur the plodder Cell: 647.710.1314 If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. -- Anon. From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Feb 9 07:40:34 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:40:34 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question Message-ID: Hi John But you can't use SQL Server Express as a replication master ... /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 09-02-2012 13:51 >>> >You would need a setup with a SQL Server replication master having the different SQLEXPRESS instances as replication slaves. Or? Wait for it to grow up a little? John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 2/9/2012 7:31 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Shamil > > No, I haven't tried that. Thanks for the warning. > > Now, this is nothing compared to the troubles with LightSwitch. This _insists_ on a local SQLEXPRESS instance. So what to do if you switch workstation (home and work for example)? You would need a setup with a SQL Server replication master having the different SQLEXPRESS instances as replication slaves. Or? > > /gustav > > >>>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 09-02-2012 12:57>>> > Hi Gustav -- > > I mainly meant project files (.csproj for C#) > > Try to add/delete/rename project items for the same project on two different PCs. > Then try to merge changed projects into common source code repository... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 09 ??????? 2012, 14:54 ?? "Gustav Brock": >> Hi Shamil >> >> As I recall it, the SVN worked fine except for the database connection string in the config file. So either you have to edit that string after each check-in, or you had to exclude the config file from the versioning system. >> >> And isn't it so that you can exclude the sln file in any case. Isn't it mostly for your local setup and won't change much as long as its collection of projects is not changed? I haven't looked into this - normally it "just works". >> >> /gustav >> >>>>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-02-2012 20:21>>> >> >> To minimize the level of "heroism" there should be first of all one technical task solved, namely: >> >> - Visual Studio solution files (.sln) and project files (.csproj (C#)) aren't possible(?) to check-out from a source control system (SVN, or HG, or ...) by several developers in parallel and then check-in back without laborious manual work on resolving collisions, and so within the above mentioned project the decision was to not let VS solution and project files to check-out/check-in at all - and that decision imposed quite some additional work on coordinators... >> >> If anybody knows effective resolution of this check-in/check-out of edited/changed VS solution and project files issue then coordination work would become a matter of magnitude less "heroic", still there should be two or more coordinators who commit to actively participate in a project under development and three to ten developers who commit but aren't sure will they have time or not to do the work they commit for - then there are good chances a project will be completed in planned time with low level of "heroism"... >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Feb 9 07:46:15 2012 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 08:46:15 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F33CE27.2020904@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. I was just answering the question... OR? Wait for LightSwitch to grow up (and not require an SQL Express instance). John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 2/9/2012 8:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > But you can't use SQL Server Express as a replication master ... > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 09-02-2012 13:51>>> > >You would need a setup with a SQL Server replication master having the different SQLEXPRESS > instances as replication slaves. Or? > > Wait for it to grow up a little? > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 2/9/2012 7:31 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >> Hi Shamil >> >> No, I haven't tried that. Thanks for the warning. >> >> Now, this is nothing compared to the troubles with LightSwitch. This _insists_ on a local SQLEXPRESS instance. So what to do if you switch workstation (home and work for example)? You would need a setup with a SQL Server replication master having the different SQLEXPRESS instances as replication slaves. Or? >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 09-02-2012 12:57>>> >> Hi Gustav -- >> >> I mainly meant project files (.csproj for C#) >> >> Try to add/delete/rename project items for the same project on two different PCs. >> Then try to merge changed projects into common source code repository... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> >> 09 ??????? 2012, 14:54 ?? "Gustav Brock": >>> Hi Shamil >>> >>> As I recall it, the SVN worked fine except for the database connection string in the config file. So either you have to edit that string after each check-in, or you had to exclude the config file from the versioning system. >>> >>> And isn't it so that you can exclude the sln file in any case. Isn't it mostly for your local setup and won't change much as long as its collection of projects is not changed? I haven't looked into this - normally it "just works". >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>>>>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-02-2012 20:21>>> >>> >>> To minimize the level of "heroism" there should be first of all one technical task solved, namely: >>> >>> - Visual Studio solution files (.sln) and project files (.csproj (C#)) aren't possible(?) to check-out from a source control system (SVN, or HG, or ...) by several developers in parallel and then check-in back without laborious manual work on resolving collisions, and so within the above mentioned project the decision was to not let VS solution and project files to check-out/check-in at all - and that decision imposed quite some additional work on coordinators... >>> >>> If anybody knows effective resolution of this check-in/check-out of edited/changed VS solution and project files issue then coordination work would become a matter of magnitude less "heroic", still there should be two or more coordinators who commit to actively participate in a project under development and three to ten developers who commit but aren't sure will they have time or not to do the work they commit for - then there are good chances a project will be completed in planned time with low level of "heroism"... >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Feb 9 08:16:34 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:16:34 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question Message-ID: Hi John But that's the catch. You do need the local SQLEXPRESS for LightSwitch (your real data can be there as well or anywhere else). LightSwitch won't even install if it can't either use an existing SQL Server 2008+ Express instance or create such one. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 09-02-2012 14:46 >>> LOL. I was just answering the question... OR? Wait for LightSwitch to grow up (and not require an SQL Express instance). John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 2/9/2012 8:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > But you can't use SQL Server Express as a replication master ... > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 09-02-2012 13:51>>> > >You would need a setup with a SQL Server replication master having the different SQLEXPRESS > instances as replication slaves. Or? > > Wait for it to grow up a little? > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 2/9/2012 7:31 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >> Hi Shamil >> >> No, I haven't tried that. Thanks for the warning. >> >> Now, this is nothing compared to the troubles with LightSwitch. This _insists_ on a local SQLEXPRESS instance. So what to do if you switch workstation (home and work for example)? You would need a setup with a SQL Server replication master having the different SQLEXPRESS instances as replication slaves. Or? >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 09-02-2012 12:57>>> >> Hi Gustav -- >> >> I mainly meant project files (.csproj for C#) >> >> Try to add/delete/rename project items for the same project on two different PCs. >> Then try to merge changed projects into common source code repository... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> >> 09 ??????? 2012, 14:54 ?? "Gustav Brock": >>> Hi Shamil >>> >>> As I recall it, the SVN worked fine except for the database connection string in the config file. So either you have to edit that string after each check-in, or you had to exclude the config file from the versioning system. >>> >>> And isn't it so that you can exclude the sln file in any case. Isn't it mostly for your local setup and won't change much as long as its collection of projects is not changed? I haven't looked into this - normally it "just works". >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>>>>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 05-02-2012 20:21>>> >>> >>> To minimize the level of "heroism" there should be first of all one technical task solved, namely: >>> >>> - Visual Studio solution files (.sln) and project files (.csproj (C#)) aren't possible(?) to check-out from a source control system (SVN, or HG, or ...) by several developers in parallel and then check-in back without laborious manual work on resolving collisions, and so within the above mentioned project the decision was to not let VS solution and project files to check-out/check-in at all - and that decision imposed quite some additional work on coordinators... >>> >>> If anybody knows effective resolution of this check-in/check-out of edited/changed VS solution and project files issue then coordination work would become a matter of magnitude less "heroic", still there should be two or more coordinators who commit to actively participate in a project under development and three to ten developers who commit but aren't sure will they have time or not to do the work they commit for - then there are good chances a project will be completed in planned time with low level of "heroism"... >>> From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Feb 9 08:20:58 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:20:58 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] NorthwindNET question Message-ID: Hi Arthur In the version I have here, the Categories' form and the sample form for Categories have standard navigation buttons. /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 09-02-2012 14:24 >>> I have got the sample up and running, and all the sources installed. There are so many packages etc. that I'm overwhelmed, to say the least. 1. Where should I begin investigating the source code? 2. Several of the single-form displays (forgive the Access anachronism) seem not to have navigation buttons. Is this by design or is there some reason for this? -- Arthur the plodder Cell: 647.710.1314 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Feb 9 09:18:31 2012 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 10:18:31 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F33E3C7.7030000@colbyconsulting.com> And so... We wait for LightSwitch to grow up. ;) Obviously it is unusable (or barely usable) as you pointed out if it can't handle using a full SQL Server instance for its data store instead of requiring an Express instance. Perhaps when it grows up it will handle using a non-express instance? John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 2/9/2012 9:16 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > But that's the catch. You do need the local SQLEXPRESS for LightSwitch (your real data can be there as well or anywhere else). > LightSwitch won't even install if it can't either use an existing SQL Server 2008+ Express instance or create such one. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 09-02-2012 14:46>>> > LOL. I was just answering the question... > > OR? > > Wait for LightSwitch to grow up (and not require an SQL Express instance). > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Feb 9 09:50:46 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 10:50:46 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: <4F33E3C7.7030000@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4F33E3C7.7030000@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I think perhaps the point is being missed here. AFAICT, LS uses Express for its own purposes, and leaves you free to hook up the resulting app to a real SQL Server just by changing the connection string. A. On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:18 AM, jwcolby wrote: > And so... > > We wait for LightSwitch to grow up. ;) > > Obviously it is unusable (or barely usable) as you pointed out if it can't > handle using a full SQL Server instance for its data store instead of > requiring an Express instance. > > Perhaps when it grows up it will handle using a non-express instance? > > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Feb 9 10:10:39 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:10:39 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question Message-ID: Hi Arthur That is correct. What I tried to point out is the trouble carrying one version of an app and its local intrinsic data stored in SQLEXPRESS to another workstation and the local instance of SQLEXPRESS at that station. These data has nothing to do with the user data the app controls; these can be stored anywhere, including the local SQLEXPRESS. /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 09-02-2012 16:50 >>> I think perhaps the point is being missed here. AFAICT, LS uses Express for its own purposes, and leaves you free to hook up the resulting app to a real SQL Server just by changing the connection string. A. On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:18 AM, jwcolby wrote: > And so... > > We wait for LightSwitch to grow up. ;) > > Obviously it is unusable (or barely usable) as you pointed out if it can't > handle using a full SQL Server instance for its data store instead of > requiring an Express instance. > > Perhaps when it grows up it will handle using a non-express instance? From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Feb 9 11:17:45 2012 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 09:17:45 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] sorting by priority then by date? Message-ID: I have a non-access/vb question but more of a logic question... in the current reporting tool we are using at work I have a requirement to sort a report by priority then by date... Priority - Date 01 - 20120115 01 - 20120131 01 - 20120201 ------------------------this is where the logic switches to sort by date asc 99 - 20110101 99 - 20110714 99 - 20110815 02 - 20111220 07 - 20120116 90 - 20120201 05 - 20120205 I know it's two queries and in SQL I can create a union query that gives me what I want, but I am using a different tool and I think the easiest for that tool is to create a combo unit of priority and date, the result would be a KEY/DATE combo that would sort in the manner described above... -Francisco http://bit.ly/sqlthis | Tsql and More... From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Feb 9 12:08:28 2012 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:08:28 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Actually a C# Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F340B9C.4030906@colbyconsulting.com> I don't think I am missing the point. How can we use LS if LS itself is tied to an express instance on a specific machine? I understand perfectly that the app user data is not under discussion here. Why can't its internals be stored on a real server instance out on my server machine? Can you say "not ready for prime time"? Alternately, MS is aiming this at the "power user" only to be used on that one machine. Hmmmm sounds familiar.... Since the power user is building a little app for himself what does it matter if it can't be moved? John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 2/9/2012 11:10 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > That is correct. > > What I tried to point out is the trouble carrying one version of an app and its local intrinsic data stored in SQLEXPRESS to another workstation and the local instance of SQLEXPRESS at that station. These data has nothing to do with the user data the app controls; these can be stored anywhere, including the local SQLEXPRESS. > > /gustav > > >>>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 09-02-2012 16:50>>> > I think perhaps the point is being missed here. AFAICT, LS uses Express for > its own purposes, and leaves you free to hook up the resulting app to a > real SQL Server just by changing the connection string. > > A. > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:18 AM, jwcolbywrote: > >> And so... >> >> We wait for LightSwitch to grow up. ;) >> >> Obviously it is unusable (or barely usable) as you pointed out if it can't >> handle using a full SQL Server instance for its data store instead of >> requiring an Express instance. >> >> Perhaps when it grows up it will handle using a non-express instance? > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Feb 14 02:25:23 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:25:23 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] (no subject) Message-ID: Hi All -- FYi: Here is a good set of articles on ADO.NET EF, POCO and related subjects: POCO in the Entity Framework: Parts 1,2,3 http://blogs.msdn.com/b/adonet/archive/2009/05/21/poco-in-the-entity-framework-part-1-the-experience.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/adonet/archive/2009/05/28/poco-in-the-entity-framework-part-2-complex-types-deferred-loading-and-explicit-loading.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/adonet/archive/2009/06/10/poco-in-the-entity-framework-part-3-change-tracking-with-poco.aspx Using Repository and Unit of Work patterns with Entity Framework 4.0 http://blogs.msdn.com/b/adonet/archive/2009/06/16/using-repository-and-unit-of-work-patterns-with-entity-framework-4-0.aspx Agile Entity Framework 4 Repository: Parts 1,2,3,4,5,6 http://thedatafarm.com/blog/data-access/agile-entity-framework-4-repository-part-1-model-and-poco-classes/ The referred above first and all the following five articles do have links to all the six articles set so I'm posting link of the first one only.... Thank you. -- Shamil From jeff.developer at gmail.com Tue Feb 14 10:44:39 2012 From: jeff.developer at gmail.com (Jeff B) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:44:39 -0600 Subject: [dba-VB] [Cross Posted to AccessD, SQL, Tech, and VB Lists] Pervasive SQL Message-ID: <004501cceb37$f32ccd30$d9866790$@gmail.com> Morning all! Sorry for the major cross post, but I am desperately looking for someone that is extremely knowledgeable in Pervasive SQL or Timberline Office and has a working copy of Pervasive SQL Version 8. We are trying to phase out Timberline, but our accounting data is still stored in PSQL. I need to find someone that can take a copy of our data files and export to either excel or SQL Server (preferably SQL Server 2008). This is just a one-time thing (I hope) and would be doing it myself, except our Timberline install has failed and we are still trying to rebuild it. Anyone willing to try and help please send an email to: jbarrows at alertservice.com. Please include an hourly cost/price so I can give the Boss some idea of what it will cost. Thanks in advance! Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD ? Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff.developer at gmail.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Feb 16 05:46:09 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:46:09 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Prepare for Windows Store Message-ID: Hi all A comprehensive preinfo on how to submit your Windows 8 desktop applications to Windows Store: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsstore/archive/2012/02/13/submitting-your-windows-8-apps.aspx It came to my mind that this is the 2012 version of shareware. Back then in the '80-'90ths you browsed magazines, ordered (or were passed) 5.25" diskettes with apps and utilities and, if you after a trial period still liked some of these, you sent some money somehow to somewhere. Or you could dial-in to a BBS and browse for files and updates. Tomorrow you will browse the Windows Store, pick an app for testing, and if you like it pay an amount in a secure way. /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Feb 16 06:55:45 2012 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 07:55:45 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Prepare for Windows Store In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F3CFCD1.2000503@colbyconsulting.com> > and if you like it pay an amount in a secure way. Assuming that the app you downloaded was not a trojan... ;) John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 2/16/2012 6:46 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi all > > A comprehensive preinfo on how to submit your Windows 8 desktop applications to Windows Store: > > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsstore/archive/2012/02/13/submitting-your-windows-8-apps.aspx > > It came to my mind that this is the 2012 version of shareware. Back then in the '80-'90ths you browsed magazines, ordered (or were passed) 5.25" diskettes with apps and utilities and, if you after a trial period still liked some of these, you sent some money somehow to somewhere. Or you could dial-in to a BBS and browse for files and updates. > Tomorrow you will browse the Windows Store, pick an app for testing, and if you like it pay an amount in a secure way. > > /gustav > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Feb 16 07:11:38 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 14:11:38 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Prepare for Windows Store Message-ID: Hi John This is not Android. You didn't study the link I guess ... /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 16-02-2012 13:55 >>> > and if you like it pay an amount in a secure way. Assuming that the app you downloaded was not a trojan... ;) John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 2/16/2012 6:46 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi all > > A comprehensive preinfo on how to submit your Windows 8 desktop applications to Windows Store: > > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsstore/archive/2012/02/13/submitting-your-windows-8-apps.aspx > > It came to my mind that this is the 2012 version of shareware. Back then in the '80-'90ths you browsed magazines, ordered (or were passed) 5.25" diskettes with apps and utilities and, if you after a trial period still liked some of these, you sent some money somehow to somewhere. Or you could dial-in to a BBS and browse for files and updates. > Tomorrow you will browse the Windows Store, pick an app for testing, and if you like it pay an amount in a secure way. > > /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Feb 16 07:34:12 2012 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 08:34:12 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Prepare for Windows Store In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F3D05D4.1050400@colbyconsulting.com> > This is not Android. > You didn't study the link I guess ... Are you saying that only Android apps can contain trojans? :) I did not study the link, though I assume that it about windows 8 developers creating apps and submitting them to some app store for approval. That is just what I got from the stuff in the link. Since I don't develop apps for Windows8 the actual link didn't appear to be of interest to me. I was merely commenting on the general issue of downloading apps from *any* marketplace. Based on an eternity of experience, I have no faith that any marketplace will be trojan free. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 2/16/2012 8:11 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > This is not Android. > You didn't study the link I guess ... > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 16-02-2012 13:55>>> > > and if you like it pay an amount in a secure way. > > Assuming that the app you downloaded was not a trojan... > > ;) > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 2/16/2012 6:46 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >> Hi all >> >> A comprehensive preinfo on how to submit your Windows 8 desktop applications to Windows Store: >> >> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsstore/archive/2012/02/13/submitting-your-windows-8-apps.aspx >> >> It came to my mind that this is the 2012 version of shareware. Back then in the '80-'90ths you browsed magazines, ordered (or were passed) 5.25" diskettes with apps and utilities and, if you after a trial period still liked some of these, you sent some money somehow to somewhere. Or you could dial-in to a BBS and browse for files and updates. >> Tomorrow you will browse the Windows Store, pick an app for testing, and if you like it pay an amount in a secure way. >> >> /gustav > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Feb 16 07:54:58 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 14:54:58 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Prepare for Windows Store Message-ID: Hi John I think it is wrong to assume Windows Store to act as "any" marketplace. Actually, to me it appears as if MSFT tries to make an app store better than any other. And of course, the link was only meant for those having at least some interest in developing for Windows 8. I think that was pretty clear in my original post. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 16-02-2012 14:34 >>> > This is not Android. > You didn't study the link I guess ... Are you saying that only Android apps can contain trojans? :) I did not study the link, though I assume that it about windows 8 developers creating apps and submitting them to some app store for approval. That is just what I got from the stuff in the link. Since I don't develop apps for Windows8 the actual link didn't appear to be of interest to me. I was merely commenting on the general issue of downloading apps from *any* marketplace. Based on an eternity of experience, I have no faith that any marketplace will be trojan free. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 2/16/2012 8:11 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > This is not Android. > You didn't study the link I guess ... > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 16-02-2012 13:55>>> > > and if you like it pay an amount in a secure way. > > Assuming that the app you downloaded was not a trojan... > > ;) > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > > Reality is what refuses to go away > when you do not believe in it > > On 2/16/2012 6:46 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >> Hi all >> >> A comprehensive preinfo on how to submit your Windows 8 desktop applications to Windows Store: >> >> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsstore/archive/2012/02/13/submitting-your-windows-8-apps.aspx >> >> It came to my mind that this is the 2012 version of shareware. Back then in the '80-'90ths you browsed magazines, ordered (or were passed) 5.25" diskettes with apps and utilities and, if you after a trial period still liked some of these, you sent some money somehow to somewhere. Or you could dial-in to a BBS and browse for files and updates. >> Tomorrow you will browse the Windows Store, pick an app for testing, and if you like it pay an amount in a secure way. >> >> /gustav From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Feb 16 07:50:30 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:50:30 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Google_Translate_API?= Message-ID: Hi All -- JFYI: I have tried to use .NET Google Translate API today (http://code.google.com/p/google-api-dotnet-client/wiki/Setup) and it worked rather well - rather well because it somehow failed to translate words "Event Viewer" into Russian but translated them well into French. And http://translate.google.com/ is able to translate words "Event Viewer" well into Russian... Google Translate API also translated well lowcased words "event viewer" into Russian. Google Translate API is a paid service - USD20 for 1 million translated chars - so to not waste money (I need to translate about 800,000 chars) I'd probably need to submit only lowcased words to Google Translation API. We will see. Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Feb 17 01:14:49 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 11:14:49 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Use_=2ENET_on_iPhone_and_Android_-_use_Xamarin?= =?utf-8?q?=3F?= Message-ID: Hi All -- I do see the above (without question mark) advertisment banner Use .NET on iPhone and Android - use Xamarin on many consumer electronics sites nowadays (I'm looking for a quality auto cam and I have visited quite a few web sites during the last three days - all around the world) and I wonder/question: 1. Who is paying for that massive advertisement campaign? 2. Did you try to use Xamarin (http://xamarin.com/) not in simulation mode but in real mode with real Android devices? (that try would cost at least USD399(?) upfront as there is no trial mode for real MonoDroid apps deployments) Meanwhile I have subscribed to MonoDroid discussion list to lurk and see how active that community is: http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/monodroid Thank you. -- Shamil From marklbreen at gmail.com Fri Feb 17 02:51:55 2012 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 08:51:55 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] Google Translate API In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Shamil, And will you keep them as lower case? Is it possible to do it as two passes and after it fails, retry the fails as lower case? Thanks Mark On 16 February 2012 13:50, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi All -- > > JFYI: I have tried to use .NET Google Translate API today ( > http://code.google.com/p/google-api-dotnet-client/wiki/Setup) and it > worked rather well - rather well because it somehow failed to translate > words "Event Viewer" into Russian but translated them well into French. And > http://translate.google.com/ is able to translate words "Event Viewer" > well into Russian... > > Google Translate API also translated well lowcased words "event viewer" > into Russian. > > Google Translate API is a paid service - USD20 for 1 million translated > chars - so to not waste money (I need to translate about 800,000 chars) I'd > probably need to submit only lowcased words to Google Translation API. We > will see. > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Feb 17 03:21:15 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 10:21:15 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Use .NET on iPhone and Android - use Xamarin? Message-ID: Hi Shamil It looks promising, but who knows? However, they offer a 30 day money back guarantee so it should be possible with an initial 30 day trial to test an app live within 60 days. They also have a link to Documentation but I don't have the time to peruse it now. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-02-2012 08:14 >>> Hi All -- I do see the above (without question mark) advertisment banner Use .NET on iPhone and Android - use Xamarin on many consumer electronics sites nowadays (I'm looking for a quality auto cam and I have visited quite a few web sites during the last three days - all around the world) and I wonder/question: 1. Who is paying for that massive advertisement campaign? 2. Did you try to use Xamarin (http://xamarin.com/) not in simulation mode but in real mode with real Android devices? (that try would cost at least USD399(?) upfront as there is no trial mode for real MonoDroid apps deployments) Meanwhile I have subscribed to MonoDroid discussion list to lurk and see how active that community is: http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/monodroid Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Feb 17 03:27:05 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 10:27:05 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Google Translate API Message-ID: Hi Shamil You can "attack" the web interface via code. It's very easy - you post the wording to be translated, grab the returned html stream, and parse it for the returned translation. Much slower than the API, of course, but totally free as far as I understand. I didn't check for upper/lower case issues however. I have code for it somewhere should anyone be interested. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 16-02-2012 14:50 >>> Hi All -- JFYI: I have tried to use .NET Google Translate API today (http://code.google.com/p/google-api-dotnet-client/wiki/Setup) and it worked rather well - rather well because it somehow failed to translate words "Event Viewer" into Russian but translated them well into French. And http://translate.google.com/ is able to translate words "Event Viewer" well into Russian... Google Translate API also translated well lowcased words "event viewer" into Russian. Google Translate API is a paid service - USD20 for 1 million translated chars - so to not waste money (I need to translate about 800,000 chars) I'd probably need to submit only lowcased words to Google Translation API. We will see. Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Feb 17 03:27:10 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 13:27:10 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Google_Translate_API?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark -- Yes, your idea with first trying uppercase and if the words will not get translated then make them converted to lower case and try again should work, but: - it will cost me some more bucks -and I do not know how many; - it may happen translations will be still partial if for upper cased words some of words will be translated and some will not... Anyway - I should just try it using KISS principle I mean: - just run translations for all 800,000 chars; - apply proposed by you conversion to lower case of the words, which will not get translated at all when upper cased. Then report to Google that their translation service is great or not so great - in the latter case claim back from Google my bucks spent on second try translations of lower cased words :) I will report on my results within a week or so - the translation work isn't for money, and I first have to finish a customer project... Any wild guesses there how much times I will have to make second try translations? There are 798,844 chars to translate (including blanks) constituting 13,094 sentence (words' groups) , well I have just checked for dups - in fact there are 9,283 unique sentences and 418,284 chars.... Thank you. -- Shamil 17 ??????? 2012, 12:53 ?? Mark Breen : > Hi Shamil, > > And will you keep them as lower case? > > Is it possible to do it as two passes and after it fails, retry the fails > as lower case? > > Thanks > > Mark > > On 16 February 2012 13:50, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi All -- > > > > JFYI: I have tried to use .NET Google Translate API today ( > > http://code.google.com/p/google-api-dotnet-client/wiki/Setup) and it > > worked rather well - rather well because it somehow failed to translate > > words "Event Viewer" into Russian but translated them well into French. And > > http://translate.google.com/ is able to translate words "Event Viewer" > > well into Russian... > > > > Google Translate API also translated well lowcased words "event viewer" > > into Russian. > > > > Google Translate API is a paid service - USD20 for 1 million translated > > chars - so to not waste money (I need to translate about 800,000 chars) I'd > > probably need to submit only lowcased words to Google Translation API. We > > will see. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Feb 17 03:32:06 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 13:32:06 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Use_=2ENET_on_iPhone_and_Android_-_use_Xamarin?= =?utf-8?q?=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- I have quickly glanced MonoDroyd docs - they look good with samples etc. and I have also looked through ModoDroyd discussion list - the latter look rather active, and usual feedback on beginners's questions postings is good. And they do use free simulation VS software to learn the stuff - all in all I have got rather positive first impression on MonoDroyd technology and community . We will see... Thank you. -- Shamil 17 ??????? 2012, 13:15 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > It looks promising, but who knows? However, they offer a 30 day money back guarantee so it should be possible with an initial 30 day trial to test an app live within 60 days. > They also have a link to Documentation but I don't have the time to peruse it now. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-02-2012 08:14 >>> > Hi All -- > > I do see the above (without question mark) advertisment banner > > Use .NET on iPhone and Android - use Xamarin > > on many consumer electronics sites nowadays (I'm looking for a quality auto cam and I have visited quite a few web sites during the last three days - all around the world) > > and I wonder/question: > > 1. Who is paying for that massive advertisement campaign? > > 2. Did you try to use Xamarin (http://xamarin.com/) not in simulation mode but in real mode with real Android devices? (that try would cost at least USD399(?) upfront as there is no trial mode for real MonoDroid apps deployments) > > Meanwhile I have subscribed to MonoDroid discussion list to lurk and see how active that community is: > > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/monodroid > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Feb 17 03:53:05 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 13:53:05 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Google_Translate_API?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- Yes, in fact it will not be that slow I guess but it will be a bit "spamming & cheating" approach.... That would be several lines of code in C#: To translate "Event Viewer" into Russian one can use WebClient class to submit: http://translate.google.com/#en|ru|Event%20Viewer URL and then grab words between and => Event Viewer BTW: If you use the above URL in your browser you'll see that "Event Viewer" doesn't get translated by Google even in browser... And this "grabbing scenario" will work for any target language translation - you can try the following URL to translate into Danish: http://translate.google.com/#en|da|Event%20Viewer Google translate API isn't that quicker than "grabbing approach" but I'd still use API - just wanted to invest some money into Google business as I do use GMail and some of the Google services for free for many years and I like them :) And using grabbing approach one can run it in several threads in fact making it quicker than using API - API I expect should somehow block multi-threading calls but I haven't checked it, so I can be wrong... Thank you. -- Shamil 17 ??????? 2012, 13:21 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > You can "attack" the web interface via code. It's very easy - you post the wording to be translated, grab the returned html stream, and parse it for the returned translation. Much slower than the API, of course, but totally free as far as I understand. I didn't check for upper/lower case issues however. > > I have code for it somewhere should anyone be interested. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 16-02-2012 14:50 >>> > Hi All -- > > JFYI: I have tried to use .NET Google Translate API today (http://code.google.com/p/google-api-dotnet-client/wiki/Setup) and it worked rather well - rather well because it somehow failed to translate words "Event Viewer" into Russian but translated them well into French. And http://translate.google.com/ is able to translate words "Event Viewer" well into Russian... > > Google Translate API also translated well lowcased words "event viewer" into Russian. > > Google Translate API is a paid service - USD20 for 1 million translated chars - so to not waste money (I need to translate about 800,000 chars) I'd probably need to submit only lowcased words to Google Translation API. We will see. > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Feb 17 03:58:37 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 13:58:37 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?OpenNETCF=2EORM_Framework?= Message-ID: Hi All -- JFI: "The OpenNETCF.ORM library is a lightweight object-relational mapping framework designed for use with the .NET Compact Framework. The framework is extensible to allow any type of backing store. An initial implementation using SQL Server Compact is provided...." "A full SQL Compact (SQL CE) implementation for the Compact and Full (desktop) Frameworks A full SQLite implementation for the Desktop framework and Mono for Android...." Read more here: http://orm.codeplex.com/releases/view/82434 It would be great somebody will make an MS Access version of this ORM ... Dreams, dreams... Thank you. -- Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Feb 17 04:33:40 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 11:33:40 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Google Translate API Message-ID: Hi Shamil Oh, I thought the API was much faster. By the way, I receive Event Viewer nicely translated into Danish with the official Microsoft localization: Logbog (~ book of logs/events) /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-02-2012 10:53 >>> Hi Gustav -- Yes, in fact it will not be that slow I guess but it will be a bit "spamming & cheating" approach.... That would be several lines of code in C#: To translate "Event Viewer" into Russian one can use WebClient class to submit: http://translate.google.com/#en|ru|Event%20Viewer URL and then grab words between and => Event Viewer BTW: If you use the above URL in your browser you'll see that "Event Viewer" doesn't get translated by Google even in browser... And this "grabbing scenario" will work for any target language translation - you can try the following URL to translate into Danish: http://translate.google.com/#en|da|Event%20Viewer Google translate API isn't that quicker than "grabbing approach" but I'd still use API - just wanted to invest some money into Google business as I do use GMail and some of the Google services for free for many years and I like them :) And using grabbing approach one can run it in several threads in fact making it quicker than using API - API I expect should somehow block multi-threading calls but I haven't checked it, so I can be wrong... Thank you. -- Shamil 17 ??????? 2012, 13:21 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > You can "attack" the web interface via code. It's very easy - you post the wording to be translated, grab the returned html stream, and parse it for the returned translation. Much slower than the API, of course, but totally free as far as I understand. I didn't check for upper/lower case issues however. > > I have code for it somewhere should anyone be interested. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 16-02-2012 14:50 >>> > Hi All -- > > JFYI: I have tried to use .NET Google Translate API today (http://code.google.com/p/google-api-dotnet-client/wiki/Setup) and it worked rather well - rather well because it somehow failed to translate words "Event Viewer" into Russian but translated them well into French. And http://translate.google.com/ is able to translate words "Event Viewer" well into Russian... > > Google Translate API also translated well lowcased words "event viewer" into Russian. > > Google Translate API is a paid service - USD20 for 1 million translated chars - so to not waste money (I need to translate about 800,000 chars) I'd probably need to submit only lowcased words to Google Translation API. We will see. > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Feb 17 04:44:45 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:44:45 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Google_Translate_API?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- Yes, "Event Viewer" (upper cased) gets translated into Danish, French, Italian and many other languages but not in Russian (and not in many other languages) but when you'll make it lower cased then it gets translated in most of that languages where it fails with "Event Viewer" translation, including Russian. That's strange... Thank you. -- Shamil 17 ??????? 2012, 14:26 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > Oh, I thought the API was much faster. > By the way, I receive Event Viewer nicely translated into Danish with the official Microsoft localization: Logbog (~ book of logs/events) > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-02-2012 10:53 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > Yes, in fact it will not be that slow I guess but it will be a bit "spamming & cheating" approach.... > > That would be several lines of code in C#: > > To translate "Event Viewer" into Russian one can use WebClient class to submit: > > http://translate.google.com/#en|ru|Event%20Viewer > > URL and then grab words between > > > > and > > > > => > > Event Viewer > > BTW: If you use the above URL in your browser you'll see that "Event Viewer" doesn't get translated by Google even in browser... > > And this "grabbing scenario" will work for any target language translation - you can try the following URL to translate into Danish: > > http://translate.google.com/#en|da|Event%20Viewer > > Google translate API isn't that quicker than "grabbing approach" but I'd still use API - just wanted to invest some money into Google business as I do use GMail and some of the Google services for free for many years and I like them :) > > And using grabbing approach one can run it in several threads in fact making it quicker than using API - API I expect should somehow block multi-threading calls but I haven't checked it, so I can be wrong... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 17 ??????? 2012, 13:21 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Shamil > > > > You can "attack" the web interface via code. It's very easy - you post the wording to be translated, grab the returned html stream, and parse it for the returned translation. Much slower than the API, of course, but totally free as far as I understand. I didn't check for upper/lower case issues however. > > > > I have code for it somewhere should anyone be interested. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 16-02-2012 14:50 >>> > > Hi All -- > > > > JFYI: I have tried to use .NET Google Translate API today (http://code.google.com/p/google-api-dotnet-client/wiki/Setup) and it worked rather well - rather well because it somehow failed to translate words "Event Viewer" into Russian but translated them well into French. And http://translate.google.com/ is able to translate words "Event Viewer" well into Russian... > > > > Google Translate API also translated well lowcased words "event viewer" into Russian. > > > > Google Translate API is a paid service - USD20 for 1 million translated chars - so to not waste money (I need to translate about 800,000 chars) I'd probably need to submit only lowcased words to Google Translation API. We will see. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Feb 17 06:20:57 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 16:20:57 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Google_Translate_API?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- Google could have blocked translation service by using "grabbing approach" - here is the code that returns nothing: public static string Translate( string sentence, string sourceLanguageCode, string targetLanguageCode) { string url = string.Format( "http://translate.google.com/#{0}|{1}|{2}", sourceLanguageCode, targetLanguageCode, System.Web.HttpUtility.HtmlEncode(sentence) .Replace(" ", "%20")); System.Net.WebClient webClient = new System.Net.WebClient(); webClient.Headers.Add("user-agent", "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.2; .NET CLR 1.0.3705;)"); string html = webClient.DownloadString(url); string startTag = ""; string endTag = ""; System.Text.RegularExpressions.Match match = System.Text.RegularExpressions.Regex.Match(html, string.Format("(?<={0})(.*?)(?={1})", startTag, endTag)); return match.Value; } They probably fill HTML textbox with translation by using JavaScript, or my code above is wrong... If you have the code which works it would be interesting to see it here. Anyway I will use Google API for my batch translation. Thank you. -- Shamil 17 ??????? 2012, 13:21 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > You can "attack" the web interface via code. It's very easy - you post the wording to be translated, grab the returned html stream, and parse it for the returned translation. Much slower than the API, of course, but totally free as far as I understand. I didn't check for upper/lower case issues however. > > I have code for it somewhere should anyone be interested. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 16-02-2012 14:50 >>> > Hi All -- > > JFYI: I have tried to use .NET Google Translate API today (http://code.google.com/p/google-api-dotnet-client/wiki/Setup) and it worked rather well - rather well because it somehow failed to translate words "Event Viewer" into Russian but translated them well into French. And http://translate.google.com/ is able to translate words "Event Viewer" well into Russian... > > Google Translate API also translated well lowcased words "event viewer" into Russian. > > Google Translate API is a paid service - USD20 for 1 million translated chars - so to not waste money (I need to translate about 800,000 chars) I'd probably need to submit only lowcased words to Google Translation API. We will see. > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Feb 18 06:28:35 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:28:35 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Google Translate API Message-ID: Hi Shamil I found the code for my small demo. The trap I encountered was that the returned string is html encoded, thus it has to be decoded. As you can see, I feed the source string as is to the Google translator - no encoding: using System; using System.Windows.Forms; using System.Net; namespace GoogleTranslation { public partial class FormTranslate : Form { string defaultText = "People of Copenhagen like silver bicycles!"; string languagePair = "en|fr"; public FormTranslate() { InitializeComponent(); this.textBoxSource.Text = defaultText; this.labelLanguage.Text = languagePair; } private void buttonTranslate_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) { string inputText = this.textBoxSource.Text; if (inputText.Equals(string.Empty)) { this.textBoxSource.Text = defaultText; inputText = defaultText; } string translatedText = TranslateText(inputText, languagePair); this.textBoxTranslate.Text = translatedText; } /// /// Translate text using Google Translate web page. /// Google URL: "http://www.google.com/translate_t?hl=en(et)ie=UTF8(et)text=InputText(et)langpair=LanguagePair" /// /// Text to be translated. /// Two-letter language pair, delimited by "|". /// E.g. "en|fr" language pair will translate from English to French. /// The translated text. public string TranslateText(string inputText, string languagePair) { string url = String.Format("http://www.google.com/translate_t?hl=en&ie=UTF8&text={0}&langpair={1}", inputText, languagePair); WebClient webClient = new WebClient(); webClient.Encoding = System.Text.Encoding.UTF7; string translationPage = webClient.DownloadString(url); // Example for en|fr: // // // Les gens de Copenhague comme les bicyclettes d'argent! // /// Value to be searched on the results for cutting the string looking for the translated text int pos0; pos0 = translationPage.IndexOf("id=result_box"); pos0 = translationPage.IndexOf("", pos0) + 1; /// This is found right after the translated text int pos1; pos1 = translationPage.IndexOf("", pos0); string translatedText = string.Empty; if (pos1 > pos0) { // Decode text like: // Les gens de Copenhague comme les bicyclettes d'argent! // to: // Les gens de Copenhague comme les bicyclettes d'argent! translatedText = WebUtility.HtmlDecode(translationPage.Substring(pos0, pos1 - pos0).Trim()); } return translatedText; } } } /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-02-12 13:20 >>> Hi Gustav -- Google could have blocked translation service by using "grabbing approach" - here is the code that returns nothing: public static string Translate( string sentence, string sourceLanguageCode, string targetLanguageCode) { string url = string.Format( "http://translate.google.com/#{0}|{1}|{2}", sourceLanguageCode, targetLanguageCode, System.Web.HttpUtility.HtmlEncode(sentence) .Replace(" ", "%20")); System.Net.WebClient webClient = new System.Net.WebClient(); webClient.Headers.Add("user-agent", "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.2; .NET CLR 1.0.3705;)"); string html = webClient.DownloadString(url); string startTag = ""; string endTag = ""; System.Text.RegularExpressions.Match match = System.Text.RegularExpressions.Regex.Match(html, string.Format("(?<={0})(.*?)(?={1})", startTag, endTag)); return match.Value; } They probably fill HTML textbox with translation by using JavaScript, or my code above is wrong... If you have the code which works it would be interesting to see it here. Anyway I will use Google API for my batch translation. Thank you. -- Shamil 17 ??????? 2012, 13:21 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > You can "attack" the web interface via code. It's very easy - you post the wording to be translated, grab the returned html stream, and parse it for the returned translation. Much slower than the API, of course, but totally free as far as I understand. I didn't check for upper/lower case issues however. > > I have code for it somewhere should anyone be interested. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 16-02-2012 14:50 >>> > Hi All -- > > JFYI: I have tried to use .NET Google Translate API today (http://code.google.com/p/google-api-dotnet-client/wiki/Setup) and it worked rather well - rather well because it somehow failed to translate words "Event Viewer" into Russian but translated them well into French. And http://translate.google.com/ is able to translate words "Event Viewer" well into Russian... > > Google Translate API also translated well lowcased words "event viewer" into Russian. > > Google Translate API is a paid service - USD20 for 1 million translated chars - so to not waste money (I need to translate about 800,000 chars) I'd probably need to submit only lowcased words to Google Translation API. We will see. > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Feb 18 12:14:49 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 22:14:49 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Google_Translate_API?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Gustav, Yes, your function worked well. Here is a bit shorter version using regular expressions: /// /// Translate text using Google Translate web page. /// Google URL: "http://www.google.com/translate_t?hl=en(et)ie=UTF8(et)text=InputText(et)langpair=LanguagePair" /// /// Text to be translated. /// Two-letter language pair, delimited by "|". /// E.g. "en|fr" language pair will translate from English to French. /// The translated text. public static string TranslateText(string inputText, string languagePair) { string url = String.Format("http://www.google.com/translate_t?hl=en&ie=UTF8&text={0}&langpair={1}", inputText, languagePair); WebClient webClient = new WebClient(); webClient.Encoding = System.Text.Encoding.UTF8; string translationPage = webClient.DownloadString(url); string startTag = "onmouseout=\"this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'\">"; string endTag = ""; System.Text.RegularExpressions.Match match = System.Text.RegularExpressions.Regex.Match(translationPage, string.Format("(?<={0})(.*?)(?={1})", startTag, endTag)); return match.Value; // translatedText; } or my initial version corrected using your approach: public static string Translate( string sentence, string sourceLanguageCode, string targetLanguageCode) { string url = string.Format( "http://www.google.com/translate_t?hl=en&ie=UTF8&text={0}&langpair={1}|{2}", System.Web.HttpUtility.HtmlEncode(sentence).Replace(" ", "%20"), sourceLanguageCode, targetLanguageCode ); System.Net.WebClient webClient = new System.Net.WebClient(); webClient.Headers.Add("user-agent", "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.2; .NET CLR 1.0.3705;)"); webClient.Encoding = System.Text.Encoding.UTF8; string html = webClient.DownloadString(url); string startTag = "onmouseout=\"this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'\">"; string endTag = ""; System.Text.RegularExpressions.Match match = System.Text.RegularExpressions.Regex.Match(html, string.Format("(?<={0})(.*?)(?={1})", startTag, endTag)); return match.Value; } URL I used before doesn't work. Thank you. -- Shamil 18 ??????? 2012, 16:22 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > I found the code for my small demo. > The trap I encountered was that the returned string is html encoded, thus it has to be decoded. > As you can see, I feed the source string as is to the Google translator - no encoding: > > > using System; > using System.Windows.Forms; > using System.Net; > > namespace GoogleTranslation > { > public partial class FormTranslate : Form > { > string defaultText = "People of Copenhagen like silver bicycles!"; > string languagePair = "en|fr"; > > public FormTranslate() > { > InitializeComponent(); > this.textBoxSource.Text = defaultText; > this.labelLanguage.Text = languagePair; > } > > private void buttonTranslate_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) > { > string inputText = this.textBoxSource.Text; > if (inputText.Equals(string.Empty)) > { > this.textBoxSource.Text = defaultText; > inputText = defaultText; > } > string translatedText = TranslateText(inputText, languagePair); > this.textBoxTranslate.Text = translatedText; > } > > /// > /// Translate text using Google Translate web page. > /// Google URL: "http://www.google.com/translate_t?hl=en(et)ie=UTF8(et)text=InputText(et)langpair=LanguagePair" > /// > /// Text to be translated. > /// Two-letter language pair, delimited by "|". > /// E.g. "en|fr" language pair will translate from English to French. > /// The translated text. > public string TranslateText(string inputText, string languagePair) > { > string url = String.Format("http://www.google.com/translate_t?hl=en&ie=UTF8&text={0}&langpair={1}", inputText, languagePair); > WebClient webClient = new WebClient(); > webClient.Encoding = System.Text.Encoding.UTF7; > string translationPage = webClient.DownloadString(url); > // Example for en|fr: > // > // // title="People of Copenhagen like silver bicycles!" > // onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" > // onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'"> > // Les gens de Copenhague comme les bicyclettes d'argent! > // > > /// Value to be searched on the results for cutting the string looking for the translated text > int pos0; > pos0 = translationPage.IndexOf("id=result_box"); > pos0 = translationPage.IndexOf("", pos0) + 1; > > /// This is found right after the translated text > int pos1; > pos1 = translationPage.IndexOf("", pos0); > string translatedText = string.Empty; > if (pos1 > pos0) > { > // Decode text like: > // Les gens de Copenhague comme les bicyclettes d'argent! > // to: > // Les gens de Copenhague comme les bicyclettes d'argent! > translatedText = WebUtility.HtmlDecode(translationPage.Substring(pos0, pos1 - pos0).Trim()); > } > return translatedText; > } > } > } > > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-02-12 13:20 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > Google could have blocked translation service by using "grabbing approach" - here is the code that returns nothing: > > public static string Translate( > string sentence, > string sourceLanguageCode, > string targetLanguageCode) > { > string url = string.Format( > "http://translate.google.com/#{0}|{1}|{2}", > sourceLanguageCode, > targetLanguageCode, > System.Web.HttpUtility.HtmlEncode(sentence) > .Replace(" ", "%20")); > > System.Net.WebClient webClient = new System.Net.WebClient(); > webClient.Headers.Add("user-agent", "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.2; .NET CLR 1.0.3705;)"); > string html = webClient.DownloadString(url); > > string startTag = ""; > string endTag = ""; > > System.Text.RegularExpressions.Match match = System.Text.RegularExpressions.Regex.Match(html, > string.Format("(?<={0})(.*?)(?={1})", startTag, endTag)); > > return match.Value; > } > > They probably fill HTML textbox with translation by using JavaScript, or my code above is wrong... > > If you have the code which works it would be interesting to see it here. > > Anyway I will use Google API for my batch translation. > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 17 ??????? 2012, 13:21 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Shamil > > > > You can "attack" the web interface via code. It's very easy - you post the wording to be translated, grab the returned html stream, and parse it for the returned translation. Much slower than the API, of course, but totally free as far as I understand. I didn't check for upper/lower case issues however. > > > > I have code for it somewhere should anyone be interested. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 16-02-2012 14:50 >>> > > Hi All -- > > > > JFYI: I have tried to use .NET Google Translate API today (http://code.google.com/p/google-api-dotnet-client/wiki/Setup) and it worked rather well - rather well because it somehow failed to translate words "Event Viewer" into Russian but translated them well into French. And http://translate.google.com/ is able to translate words "Event Viewer" well into Russian... > > > > Google Translate API also translated well lowcased words "event viewer" into Russian. > > > > Google Translate API is a paid service - USD20 for 1 million translated chars - so to not waste money (I need to translate about 800,000 chars) I'd probably need to submit only lowcased words to Google Translation API. We will see. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Feb 18 16:40:16 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 23:40:16 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Google Translate API Message-ID: Hi Shamil Thanks. I've never had much use for regular expressions but I can see that here is an example where it will fit quite well. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 18-02-12 19:14 >>> Thank you, Gustav, Yes, your function worked well. Here is a bit shorter version using regular expressions: /// /// Translate text using Google Translate web page. /// Google URL: "http://www.google.com/translate_t?hl=en(et)ie=UTF8(et)text=InputText(et)langpair=LanguagePair" /// /// Text to be translated. /// Two-letter language pair, delimited by "|". /// E.g. "en|fr" language pair will translate from English to French. /// The translated text. public static string TranslateText(string inputText, string languagePair) { string url = String.Format("http://www.google.com/translate_t?hl=en&ie=UTF8&text={0}&langpair={1}", inputText, languagePair); WebClient webClient = new WebClient(); webClient.Encoding = System.Text.Encoding.UTF8; string translationPage = webClient.DownloadString(url); string startTag = "onmouseout=\"this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'\">"; string endTag = ""; System.Text.RegularExpressions.Match match = System.Text.RegularExpressions.Regex.Match(translationPage, string.Format("(?<={0})(.*?)(?={1})", startTag, endTag)); return match.Value; // translatedText; } or my initial version corrected using your approach: public static string Translate( string sentence, string sourceLanguageCode, string targetLanguageCode) { string url = string.Format( "http://www.google.com/translate_t?hl=en&ie=UTF8&text={0}&langpair={1}|{2}", System.Web.HttpUtility.HtmlEncode(sentence).Replace(" ", "%20"), sourceLanguageCode, targetLanguageCode ); System.Net.WebClient webClient = new System.Net.WebClient(); webClient.Headers.Add("user-agent", "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.2; .NET CLR 1.0.3705;)"); webClient.Encoding = System.Text.Encoding.UTF8; string html = webClient.DownloadString(url); string startTag = "onmouseout=\"this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'\">"; string endTag = ""; System.Text.RegularExpressions.Match match = System.Text.RegularExpressions.Regex.Match(html, string.Format("(?<={0})(.*?)(?={1})", startTag, endTag)); return match.Value; } URL I used before doesn't work. Thank you. -- Shamil 18 ??????? 2012, 16:22 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > I found the code for my small demo. > The trap I encountered was that the returned string is html encoded, thus it has to be decoded. > As you can see, I feed the source string as is to the Google translator - no encoding: > > > using System; > using System.Windows.Forms; > using System.Net; > > namespace GoogleTranslation > { > public partial class FormTranslate : Form > { > string defaultText = "People of Copenhagen like silver bicycles!"; > string languagePair = "en|fr"; > > public FormTranslate() > { > InitializeComponent(); > this.textBoxSource.Text = defaultText; > this.labelLanguage.Text = languagePair; > } > > private void buttonTranslate_Click(object sender, EventArgs e) > { > string inputText = this.textBoxSource.Text; > if (inputText.Equals(string.Empty)) > { > this.textBoxSource.Text = defaultText; > inputText = defaultText; > } > string translatedText = TranslateText(inputText, languagePair); > this.textBoxTranslate.Text = translatedText; > } > > /// > /// Translate text using Google Translate web page. > /// Google URL: "http://www.google.com/translate_t?hl=en(et)ie=UTF8(et)text=InputText(et)langpair=LanguagePair" > /// > /// Text to be translated. > /// Two-letter language pair, delimited by "|". > /// E.g. "en|fr" language pair will translate from English to French. > /// The translated text. > public string TranslateText(string inputText, string languagePair) > { > string url = String.Format("http://www.google.com/translate_t?hl=en&ie=UTF8&text={0}&langpair={1}", inputText, languagePair); > WebClient webClient = new WebClient(); > webClient.Encoding = System.Text.Encoding.UTF7; > string translationPage = webClient.DownloadString(url); > // Example for en|fr: > // > // // title="People of Copenhagen like silver bicycles!" > // onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" > // onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'"> > // Les gens de Copenhague comme les bicyclettes d'argent! > // > > /// Value to be searched on the results for cutting the string looking for the translated text > int pos0; > pos0 = translationPage.IndexOf("id=result_box"); > pos0 = translationPage.IndexOf("", pos0) + 1; > > /// This is found right after the translated text > int pos1; > pos1 = translationPage.IndexOf("", pos0); > string translatedText = string.Empty; > if (pos1 > pos0) > { > // Decode text like: > // Les gens de Copenhague comme les bicyclettes d'argent! > // to: > // Les gens de Copenhague comme les bicyclettes d'argent! > translatedText = WebUtility.HtmlDecode(translationPage.Substring(pos0, pos1 - pos0).Trim()); > } > return translatedText; > } > } > } > > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 17-02-12 13:20 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > Google could have blocked translation service by using "grabbing approach" - here is the code that returns nothing: > > public static string Translate( > string sentence, > string sourceLanguageCode, > string targetLanguageCode) > { > string url = string.Format( > "http://translate.google.com/#{0}|{1}|{2}", > sourceLanguageCode, > targetLanguageCode, > System.Web.HttpUtility.HtmlEncode(sentence) > .Replace(" ", "%20")); > > System.Net.WebClient webClient = new System.Net.WebClient(); > webClient.Headers.Add("user-agent", "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.2; .NET CLR 1.0.3705;)"); > string html = webClient.DownloadString(url); > > string startTag = ""; > string endTag = ""; > > System.Text.RegularExpressions.Match match = System.Text.RegularExpressions.Regex.Match(html, > string.Format("(?<={0})(.*?)(?={1})", startTag, endTag)); > > return match.Value; > } > > They probably fill HTML textbox with translation by using JavaScript, or my code above is wrong... > > If you have the code which works it would be interesting to see it here. > > Anyway I will use Google API for my batch translation. > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 17 ??????? 2012, 13:21 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Shamil > > > > You can "attack" the web interface via code. It's very easy - you post the wording to be translated, grab the returned html stream, and parse it for the returned translation. Much slower than the API, of course, but totally free as far as I understand. I didn't check for upper/lower case issues however. > > > > I have code for it somewhere should anyone be interested. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 16-02-2012 14:50 >>> > > Hi All -- > > > > JFYI: I have tried to use .NET Google Translate API today (http://code.google.com/p/google-api-dotnet-client/wiki/Setup) and it worked rather well - rather well because it somehow failed to translate words "Event Viewer" into Russian but translated them well into French. And http://translate.google.com/ is able to translate words "Event Viewer" well into Russian... > > > > Google Translate API also translated well lowcased words "event viewer" into Russian. > > > > Google Translate API is a paid service - USD20 for 1 million translated chars - so to not waste money (I need to translate about 800,000 chars) I'd probably need to submit only lowcased words to Google Translation API. We will see. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Feb 21 05:00:41 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:00:41 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?DataSet_Project_property_for_ADO=2ENET_dataset?= =?utf-8?q?_designer?= Message-ID: Hi All -- I have occasionally found that since VS2008 there exists so called "DataSet Project" and a few related properties for ADO.NET DataSets. (I do not use ADO.NET typed datasets that much in my development so I missed this new property introduction for VS2008). Good news - that should allow me to have all ADO.NET data sets defined and stored in a separate project and I also do hope to bind referencing project winforms/custom controls to that ADO.NET dataset tables/views defined in DAL project. But as it often happens to make this solution working isn't an easy exercise or I'm missing something obvious - I'm reading this info now: http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums/en-US/adodotnetdataset/thread/9de3d0ec-cc1c-4549-8c40-243e8ae6d433 Do you know about 100% "fool proof" way to make and activate "N-Tier ADO.NET data set based solution"? Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Feb 21 05:04:01 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:04:01 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?DataSet_Project_property_for_ADO=2ENET_dataset?= =?utf-8?q?_designer?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All -- Here is a couple of useful links for the subject: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb384570.aspx http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/294022/Walkthrough-Creating-an-N-tier-Data-Application-wi Thank you. -- Shamil 21 ??????? 2012, 15:01 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil : > Hi All -- > > I have occasionally found that since VS2008 there exists so called "DataSet Project" and a few related properties for ADO.NET DataSets. (I do not use ADO.NET typed datasets that much in my development so I missed this new property introduction for VS2008). > Good news - that should allow me to have all ADO.NET data sets defined and stored in a separate project and I also do hope to bind referencing project winforms/custom controls to that ADO.NET dataset tables/views defined in DAL project. > > But as it often happens to make this solution working isn't an easy exercise or I'm missing something obvious - I'm reading this info now: > > http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums/en-US/adodotnetdataset/thread/9de3d0ec-cc1c-4549-8c40-243e8ae6d433 > > Do you know about 100% "fool proof" way to make and activate "N-Tier ADO.NET data set based solution"? > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Feb 21 07:33:41 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 17:33:41 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?DataSet_Project_property_for_ADO=2ENET_dataset?= =?utf-8?q?_designer?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All -- I have made it working based on MS original walk-through but without using web service... I will try to post my solution on Northwind.NET in the coming days... Thank you. -- Shamil 21 ??????? 2012, 15:04 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil : > Hi All -- > > Here is a couple of useful links for the subject: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb384570.aspx > > http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/294022/Walkthrough-Creating-an-N-tier-Data-Application-wi > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 21 ??????? 2012, 15:01 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil : > > Hi All -- > > > > I have occasionally found that since VS2008 there exists so called "DataSet Project" and a few related properties for ADO.NET DataSets. (I do not use ADO.NET typed datasets that much in my development so I missed this new property introduction for VS2008). > > Good news - that should allow me to have all ADO.NET data sets defined and stored in a separate project and I also do hope to bind referencing project winforms/custom controls to that ADO.NET dataset tables/views defined in DAL project. > > > > But as it often happens to make this solution working isn't an easy exercise or I'm missing something obvious - I'm reading this info now: > > > > http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums/en-US/adodotnetdataset/thread/9de3d0ec-cc1c-4549-8c40-243e8ae6d433 > > > > Do you know about 100% "fool proof" way to make and activate "N-Tier ADO.NET data set based solution"? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Feb 21 09:43:08 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 19:43:08 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?DataSet_Project_property_for_ADO=2ENET_dataset?= =?utf-8?q?_designer?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HI All -- I have made sample solution/app - you can find it here: My N-Tier Sample Walk-Through (with MS Access backend DB) http://northwind.codeplex.com/releases/view/60382 This is just a skeleton solution. I just need something like that for a real life project I'm developing here - without the subject Dataset Project feature it would have had required quite a lot of additional programming. Thanks MS. FYI: In the sample project I still needed to refer DAL layer - I didn't follow MS recommendation from their walk-through note: "When you separate datasets and TableAdapters (by setting the DataSet Project property), existing partial dataset classes in the project will not be moved automatically. Existing dataset partial classes must be manually moved to the dataset project." Thank you. -- Shamil 21 ??????? 2012, 15:04 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil : > Hi All -- > > Here is a couple of useful links for the subject: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb384570.aspx > > http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/294022/Walkthrough-Creating-an-N-tier-Data-Application-wi > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 21 ??????? 2012, 15:01 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil : > > Hi All -- > > > > I have occasionally found that since VS2008 there exists so called "DataSet Project" and a few related properties for ADO.NET DataSets. (I do not use ADO.NET typed datasets that much in my development so I missed this new property introduction for VS2008). > > Good news - that should allow me to have all ADO.NET data sets defined and stored in a separate project and I also do hope to bind referencing project winforms/custom controls to that ADO.NET dataset tables/views defined in DAL project. > > > > But as it often happens to make this solution working isn't an easy exercise or I'm missing something obvious - I'm reading this info now: > > > > http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums/en-US/adodotnetdataset/thread/9de3d0ec-cc1c-4549-8c40-243e8ae6d433 > > > > Do you know about 100% "fool proof" way to make and activate "N-Tier ADO.NET data set based solution"? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Feb 21 11:49:08 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 21:49:08 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?=2ENET_WinForms=3A_Hiding_TabControl=27s_TabPa?= =?utf-8?q?ge?= Message-ID: Hi All -- It happens that TabPage doesn't have Visible property - the solution is to ?Remove/Add(Insert) TabPage on runtime and have all TabPages designed as visible on design time (if you do not want to create all the controls dynamically on run-time). e.g: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/552579/how-to-hide-tabpage-from-tabcontrol What isn't not written anywhere (at least I haven't found) is that when you need to simulate hiding/displaying/... of a TabPage which isn't the last one then you'd better first Insert new TabPage and then remove the one to be hidden....? And you can keep a reference to a hidden TabPage in a WinForm module level var/array/collection/... then it will not be "garbage collected" and you can add (make visible) or remove (make invisible) it when needed... I have never needed to hide/unhide TabPages during prev. 8 years of C# development - "the more you know the more you know that you know nothing..." - very true for .NET development's everyday practice - and this ".NET Framework behemoth" ?is becoming bigger and bigger with every coming day.... Thank you. -- Shamil? From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Feb 22 03:37:41 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 10:37:41 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Use/convert Java with/to .Net Message-ID: Hi all Not that I have a use for it right now, but I found this quite interesting: * Drop-in JVM * Use Java libraries in your .NET applications * Develop .NET applications in Java http://www.ikvm.net/uses.html A practical use of this is shown here to control the Skype client from .Net: http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/330778/Skypekit-NET /gustav From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Feb 22 06:06:16 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:06:16 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Use/convert_Java_with/to_=2ENet?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- Thank you for the link. It would be interesting to know what kind of XML documents can be converted to PDF using a Java open source lib they mention: "For example, the Apache FOP project is an open source XSL-FO processor written in Java that is widely used to generate PDF documents from XML source. With IKVM.NET technology, Apache FOP can be used by any .NET application."? If that technology will allow to convert to PDF Open XML documents then it should be possible to "print to PDF" MS Office 2007/2010" MS Word documents, and maybe even XL and PP? Let's try to check that opportunity in the coming days - within a month? Thank you. -- Shamil 22 ??????? 2012, 13:31 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi all > > Not that I have a use for it right now, but I found this quite interesting: > > * Drop-in JVM > * Use Java libraries in your .NET applications > * Develop .NET applications in Java > > http://www.ikvm.net/uses.html > > A practical use of this is shown here to control the Skype client from .Net: > > http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/330778/Skypekit-NET > > /gustav > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Feb 22 07:16:35 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 14:16:35 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Use/convert Java with/to .Net Message-ID: Hi Shamil I would love to but can't promise anything ... XSL-FO seems very capable - can output to a bunch of other formats as well, though PDF is the primary. The "Hello Shamil!" example at their site is easy to grasp, but I guess it soon will turn quite complicated for more advanced reports. Still, lots of "normal" reporting is lists only and here it should be fine - and fast, I guess. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 22-02-2012 13:06 >>> Hi Gustav -- Thank you for the link. It would be interesting to know what kind of XML documents can be converted to PDF using a Java open source lib they mention: "For example, the Apache FOP project is an open source XSL-FO processor written in Java that is widely used to generate PDF documents from XML source. With IKVM.NET technology, Apache FOP can be used by any .NET application."? If that technology will allow to convert to PDF Open XML documents then it should be possible to "print to PDF" MS Office 2007/2010" MS Word documents, and maybe even XL and PP? Let's try to check that opportunity in the coming days - within a month? Thank you. -- Shamil 22 ******* 2012, 13:31 ** "Gustav Brock" : > Hi all > > Not that I have a use for it right now, but I found this quite interesting: > > * Drop-in JVM > * Use Java libraries in your .NET applications > * Develop .NET applications in Java > > http://www.ikvm.net/uses.html > > A practical use of this is shown here to control the Skype client from .Net: > > http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/330778/Skypekit-NET > > /gustav From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Feb 22 07:39:32 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 17:39:32 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Use/convert_Java_with/to_=2ENet?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- > I would love to but can't promise anything ... I'm not trying to "charge" you with that testing :) - just wondering would that be possible - if you'll see/find any samples whenever and whatever way you'll (occasionally) get at them please post them - that was what I mainly meant... I will also be looking for such samples but can't promise anything :) Thank you. -- Shamil 22 ??????? 2012, 17:10 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > I would love to but can't promise anything ... > XSL-FO seems very capable - can output to a bunch of other formats as well, though PDF is the primary. > The "Hello Shamil!" example at their site is easy to grasp, but I guess it soon will turn quite complicated for more advanced reports. Still, lots of "normal" reporting is lists only and here it should be fine - and fast, I guess. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 22-02-2012 13:06 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > Thank you for the link. > > It would be interesting to know what kind of XML documents can be converted to PDF using a Java open source lib they mention: "For example, the Apache FOP project is an open source XSL-FO processor written in Java that is widely used to generate PDF documents from XML source. With IKVM.NET technology, Apache FOP can be used by any .NET application."? > > If that technology will allow to convert to PDF Open XML documents then it should be possible to "print to PDF" MS Office 2007/2010" MS Word documents, and maybe even XL and PP? > > Let's try to check that opportunity in the coming days - within a month? > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 22 ******* 2012, 13:31 ** "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi all > > > > Not that I have a use for it right now, but I found this quite interesting: > > > > * Drop-in JVM > > * Use Java libraries in your .NET applications > > * Develop .NET applications in Java > > > > http://www.ikvm.net/uses.html > > > > A practical use of this is shown here to control the Skype client from .Net: > > > > http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/330778/Skypekit-NET > > > > /gustav > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Feb 22 08:01:24 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 15:01:24 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Use/convert Java with/to .Net Message-ID: Hi Shamil Of course, no problem! Now, if I only knew a Java guy to consult ... as I have never written a single line of Java code. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 22-02-2012 14:39 >>> Hi Gustav -- > I would love to but can't promise anything ... I'm not trying to "charge" you with that testing :) - just wondering would that be possible - if you'll see/find any samples whenever and whatever way you'll (occasionally) get at them please post them - that was what I mainly meant... I will also be looking for such samples but can't promise anything :) Thank you. -- Shamil 22 ??????? 2012, 17:10 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > I would love to but can't promise anything ... > XSL-FO seems very capable - can output to a bunch of other formats as well, though PDF is the primary. > The "Hello Shamil!" example at their site is easy to grasp, but I guess it soon will turn quite complicated for more advanced reports. Still, lots of "normal" reporting is lists only and here it should be fine - and fast, I guess. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 22-02-2012 13:06 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > Thank you for the link. > > It would be interesting to know what kind of XML documents can be converted to PDF using a Java open source lib they mention: "For example, the Apache FOP project is an open source XSL-FO processor written in Java that is widely used to generate PDF documents from XML source. With IKVM.NET technology, Apache FOP can be used by any .NET application."? > > If that technology will allow to convert to PDF Open XML documents then it should be possible to "print to PDF" MS Office 2007/2010" MS Word documents, and maybe even XL and PP? > > Let's try to check that opportunity in the coming days - within a month? > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 22 ******* 2012, 13:31 ** "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi all > > > > Not that I have a use for it right now, but I found this quite interesting: > > > > * Drop-in JVM > > * Use Java libraries in your .NET applications > > * Develop .NET applications in Java > > > > http://www.ikvm.net/uses.html > > > > A practical use of this is shown here to control the Skype client from .Net: > > > > http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/330778/Skypekit-NET > > > > /gustav From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Feb 22 09:04:46 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 19:04:46 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Use/convert_Java_with/to_=2ENet?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- > Now, if I only knew a Java guy to consult ... as I have never written a single line of Java code. But you don't need to know Java, do you? - AFAIU IKVM converts Java compiled bytecode (libs) into CIL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Intermediate_Language) .NET assemblies: DLLs and/or .EXEs.. Then you can use converted DLLs from your C#/VB.NET programs... Thank you. - Shamil 22 ??????? 2012, 17:55 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > Of course, no problem! > Now, if I only knew a Java guy to consult ... as I have never written a single line of Java code. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 22-02-2012 14:39 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > > I would love to but can't promise anything ... > I'm not trying to "charge" you with that testing :) - just wondering would that be possible - if you'll see/find any samples whenever and whatever way you'll (occasionally) get at them please post them - that was what I mainly meant... > I will also be looking for such samples but can't promise anything :) > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 22 ??????? 2012, 17:10 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Shamil > > > > I would love to but can't promise anything ... > > XSL-FO seems very capable - can output to a bunch of other formats as well, though PDF is the primary. > > The "Hello Shamil!" example at their site is easy to grasp, but I guess it soon will turn quite complicated for more advanced reports. Still, lots of "normal" reporting is lists only and here it should be fine - and fast, I guess. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 22-02-2012 13:06 >>> > > Hi Gustav -- > > > > Thank you for the link. > > > > It would be interesting to know what kind of XML documents can be converted to PDF using a Java open source lib they mention: "For example, the Apache FOP project is an open source XSL-FO processor written in Java that is widely used to generate PDF documents from XML source. With IKVM.NET technology, Apache FOP can be used by any .NET application."? > > > > If that technology will allow to convert to PDF Open XML documents then it should be possible to "print to PDF" MS Office 2007/2010" MS Word documents, and maybe even XL and PP? > > > > Let's try to check that opportunity in the coming days - within a month? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > 22 ******* 2012, 13:31 ** "Gustav Brock" : > > > Hi all > > > > > > Not that I have a use for it right now, but I found this quite interesting: > > > > > > * Drop-in JVM > > > * Use Java libraries in your .NET applications > > > * Develop .NET applications in Java > > > > > > http://www.ikvm.net/uses.html > > > > > > A practical use of this is shown here to control the Skype client from .Net: > > > > > > http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/330778/Skypekit-NET > > > > > > /gustav > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Feb 22 09:21:13 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:21:13 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Use/convert Java with/to .Net Message-ID: Hi Shamil No, you are right, that's how I understand it as well. My reasoning was, that a Java guy (m/f) would be more likely to know about XSL-FO, thus might be able to deliver some input. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 22-02-2012 16:04 >>> Hi Gustav -- > Now, if I only knew a Java guy to consult ... as I have never written a single line of Java code. But you don't need to know Java, do you? - AFAIU IKVM converts Java compiled bytecode (libs) into CIL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Intermediate_Language) .NET assemblies: DLLs and/or .EXEs.. Then you can use converted DLLs from your C#/VB.NET programs... Thank you. - Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Feb 22 11:10:19 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 21:10:19 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Use/convert_Java_with/to_=2ENet?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- OK. I have got some links: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1356718/do-you-have-any-free-net-managed-code-for-converting-docx-to-pdf http://www.alt-soft.com http://fonet.codeplex.com/ They need more investigations... Thank you. -- Shamil 22 ??????? 2012, 19:15 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > No, you are right, that's how I understand it as well. > My reasoning was, that a Java guy (m/f) would be more likely to know about XSL-FO, thus might be able to deliver some input. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 22-02-2012 16:04 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > > Now, if I only knew a Java guy to consult ... as I have never written a single line of Java code. > But you don't need to know Java, do you? - AFAIU IKVM converts Java compiled bytecode (libs) into CIL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Intermediate_Language) .NET assemblies: DLLs and/or .EXEs.. > > Then you can use converted DLLs from your C#/VB.NET programs... > > Thank you. > > - Shamil > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Feb 24 00:22:25 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:22:25 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Strongly_Typed_DataSet_Connection_String_-_cha?= =?utf-8?q?nging_on__runtime?= Message-ID: Hi All -- The subject seems to be an issue without effective solution (did I miss that solution?): http://stackoverflow.com/questions/695491/best-way-to-set-strongly-typed-dataset-connection-string-at-runtime http://rajmsdn.wordpress.com/2009/12/09/strongly-typed-dataset-connection-string/ I'd propose to use custom partial classes to "open access" to both the global (read-only by default) connection string property as well as to individual data tables ?table adapters' _connection property, which is set as private by default.? Than you. -- Shamil? From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Feb 24 05:24:42 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 15:24:42 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?ADO=2ENET_datasets_-_speed_test?= Message-ID: Hi All -- ?I have a custom application using several MS Access backends where data are loaded/imported from several .csv (report) files and then processed to get common lookup values. The source tables for the latter ones (lookup values) are loaded from MS Access databases into memory to speed-up the whole process - here are the loading stats: - lookup dataset #1 - loaded 4014 rows in 0.218 seconds - lookup dataset #2 -loaded 1425 rows in 0.105 seconds - lookup dataset #3 -?loaded 14955 rows in 0.236 seconds - lookup dataset #4 -?loaded 29316 rows in 0.493 seconds - lookup dataset #5 -?loaded 9394 rows in 0.535 seconds Speed of data loading into memory looks impressive, isn't? - the testing system is a simple for nowadays PC - an year 2007 production dual core Pentium laptop with 3GB of memory running Win7 32bit. And ? 100,000?searches (using ADO.NET data set .Select method) against loaded in memory datatsets takes ~5 seconds, 500,000 ?searches - 21 seconds, 1,000,000 searches - 46 seconds Not bad at all. ??I have mentioned here already that I haven't used ADO.NET datasets that much with MS Access backends - I have mainly used OleDbDataReader to get data into memory and then manipulate it via custom classes and update backend ?using OleDbCommand and "action queries" . Based on the above stats I'm reconsidering now my usual techniques and I will be switching to mainly using ADO.NET datasets with MS Access backend for all kinds of data manipulation operations for desktop applications... Still ADO.NET datasets could be "heavy/memory consuming" for web/ASP.NET applications - that was ~year 2005 opinion from some experts I based my practice on - I suppose it should be now (year 2012 - and VS2010) checked how "heavy" ADO.NET datasets really are comparing with OleDbReader and related ?"low level" data manipulation techniques - have you seen anywhere such stats? Thank you. -- Shamil? From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Feb 25 11:41:13 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 18:41:13 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ADO.NET datasets - speed test Message-ID: Hi Shamil That looks good. But I have nothing to compare with - I've never used OleDbCommand. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-02-12 12:24 >>> Hi All -- *I have a custom application using several MS Access backends where data are loaded/imported from several .csv (report) files and then processed to get common lookup values. The source tables for the latter ones (lookup values) are loaded from MS Access databases into memory to speed-up the whole process - here are the loading stats: - lookup dataset #1 - loaded 4014 rows in 0.218 seconds - lookup dataset #2 -loaded 1425 rows in 0.105 seconds - lookup dataset #3 -*loaded 14955 rows in 0.236 seconds - lookup dataset #4 -*loaded 29316 rows in 0.493 seconds - lookup dataset #5 -*loaded 9394 rows in 0.535 seconds Speed of data loading into memory looks impressive, isn't? - the testing system is a simple for nowadays PC - an year 2007 production dual core Pentium laptop with 3GB of memory running Win7 32bit. And * 100,000*searches (using ADO.NET data set .Select method) against loaded in memory datatsets takes ~5 seconds, 500,000 *searches - 21 seconds, 1,000,000 searches - 46 seconds Not bad at all. **I have mentioned here already that I haven't used ADO.NET datasets that much with MS Access backends - I have mainly used OleDbDataReader to get data into memory and then manipulate it via custom classes and update backend *using OleDbCommand and "action queries" . Based on the above stats I'm reconsidering now my usual techniques and I will be switching to mainly using ADO.NET datasets with MS Access backend for all kinds of data manipulation operations for desktop applications... Still ADO.NET datasets could be "heavy/memory consuming" for web/ASP.NET applications - that was ~year 2005 opinion from some experts I based my practice on - I suppose it should be now (year 2012 - and VS2010) checked how "heavy" ADO.NET datasets really are comparing with OleDbReader and related *"low level" data manipulation techniques - have you seen anywhere such stats? Thank you. -- Shamil* From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Feb 26 04:57:11 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 14:57:11 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?ADO=2ENET_datasets_-_speed_test?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- > That looks good. But I have nothing to compare with - I've never used OleDbCommand. Lucky man! :) I seems to have started to develop using VS a bit earlier than yourself when using ADO.NET Datasets especially in ASP.NET applications was a kind of "bad practice" because of datasets "heavy weight" comparing to OleDbDataReader/SqlDataReader, . That was based on real experts' opinions. (BTW, have a look at DNN sources they use SqlCommand and SqlDataReader quite a lot, till nowadays). Do you also use Dataset Project property of datasets, which I have mentioned here recently? The latter is becoming a real "life saver" for my current customer project having several MS Access lookup backends and one main backend keeping consolidated data from several reports imported from external sources.. Thank you. -- Shamil 25 ??????? 2012, 21:35 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > That looks good. But I have nothing to compare with - I've never used OleDbCommand. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-02-12 12:24 >>> > Hi All -- > > *I have a custom application using several MS Access backends where data are loaded/imported from several .csv (report) files and then processed to get common lookup values. The source tables for the latter ones (lookup values) are loaded from MS Access databases into memory to speed-up the whole process - here are the loading stats: > > - lookup dataset #1 - loaded 4014 rows in 0.218 seconds > - lookup dataset #2 -loaded 1425 rows in 0.105 seconds > - lookup dataset #3 -*loaded 14955 rows in 0.236 seconds > - lookup dataset #4 -*loaded 29316 rows in 0.493 seconds > - lookup dataset #5 -*loaded 9394 rows in 0.535 seconds > > Speed of data loading into memory looks impressive, isn't? - the testing system is a simple for nowadays PC - an year 2007 production dual core Pentium laptop with 3GB of memory running Win7 32bit. > > And * > > 100,000*searches (using ADO.NET data set .Select method) against loaded in memory datatsets takes ~5 seconds, > 500,000 *searches - 21 seconds, > 1,000,000 searches - 46 seconds > > Not bad at all. > **I have mentioned here already that I haven't used ADO.NET datasets that much with MS Access backends - I have mainly used OleDbDataReader to get data into memory and then manipulate it via custom classes and update backend *using OleDbCommand and "action queries" . > > Based on the above stats I'm reconsidering now my usual techniques and I will be switching to mainly using ADO.NET datasets with MS Access backend for all kinds of data manipulation operations for desktop applications... > > Still ADO.NET datasets could be "heavy/memory consuming" for web/ASP.NET applications - that was ~year 2005 opinion from some experts I based my practice on - I suppose it should be now (year 2012 - and VS2010) checked how "heavy" ADO.NET datasets really are comparing with OleDbReader and related *"low level" data manipulation techniques - have you seen anywhere such stats? > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil* > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Feb 26 07:02:19 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 14:02:19 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ADO.NET datasets - speed test Message-ID: Hi Shamil I started with VS2005, and somehow I at once noticed the tableadapters and datatables and didn't look back ... I haven't had use for n-tier systems nor DALs, so I haven't worked with these. Today I think the Entity Framework is the most promising - and web services for remote apps. But currently I'm busy with other tasks so I haven't the time I wish I had for going deeper into this and the datasets. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 26-02-12 11:57 >>> Hi Gustav -- > That looks good. But I have nothing to compare with - I've never used OleDbCommand. Lucky man! :) I seems to have started to develop using VS a bit earlier than yourself when using ADO.NET Datasets especially in ASP.NET applications was a kind of "bad practice" because of datasets "heavy weight" comparing to OleDbDataReader/SqlDataReader, . That was based on real experts' opinions. (BTW, have a look at DNN sources they use SqlCommand and SqlDataReader quite a lot, till nowadays). Do you also use Dataset Project property of datasets, which I have mentioned here recently? The latter is becoming a real "life saver" for my current customer project having several MS Access lookup backends and one main backend keeping consolidated data from several reports imported from external sources.. Thank you. -- Shamil 25 ??????? 2012, 21:35 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > That looks good. But I have nothing to compare with - I've never used OleDbCommand. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-02-12 12:24 >>> > Hi All -- > > *I have a custom application using several MS Access backends where data are loaded/imported from several .csv (report) files and then processed to get common lookup values. The source tables for the latter ones (lookup values) are loaded from MS Access databases into memory to speed-up the whole process - here are the loading stats: > > - lookup dataset #1 - loaded 4014 rows in 0.218 seconds > - lookup dataset #2 -loaded 1425 rows in 0.105 seconds > - lookup dataset #3 -*loaded 14955 rows in 0.236 seconds > - lookup dataset #4 -*loaded 29316 rows in 0.493 seconds > - lookup dataset #5 -*loaded 9394 rows in 0.535 seconds > > Speed of data loading into memory looks impressive, isn't? - the testing system is a simple for nowadays PC - an year 2007 production dual core Pentium laptop with 3GB of memory running Win7 32bit. > > And * > > 100,000*searches (using ADO.NET data set .Select method) against loaded in memory datatsets takes ~5 seconds, > 500,000 *searches - 21 seconds, > 1,000,000 searches - 46 seconds > > Not bad at all. > **I have mentioned here already that I haven't used ADO.NET datasets that much with MS Access backends - I have mainly used OleDbDataReader to get data into memory and then manipulate it via custom classes and update backend *using OleDbCommand and "action queries" . > > Based on the above stats I'm reconsidering now my usual techniques and I will be switching to mainly using ADO.NET datasets with MS Access backend for all kinds of data manipulation operations for desktop applications... > > Still ADO.NET datasets could be "heavy/memory consuming" for web/ASP.NET applications - that was ~year 2005 opinion from some experts I based my practice on - I suppose it should be now (year 2012 - and VS2010) checked how "heavy" ADO.NET datasets really are comparing with OleDbReader and related *"low level" data manipulation techniques - have you seen anywhere such stats? > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil* From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Feb 26 12:44:02 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 22:44:02 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?ADO=2ENET_datasets_-_speed_test?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- I have started to work with Visual Studio.NET(2002) then VS2003 came as a big relief but actual fulltime VS development started for me with VS2005 - and now VS2012 is coming somewhere this year... Yes, Entity Framework and Web Services but Entity Framework is for MS SQL (and Oracle ....) and not (yet) for MS Access... And for MS Access ordinary ADO.NET Datasets with DataSet Project property allowing n-tier solutions work well... I have done quite a few Web Services development (still SOAP not WCF) - that is a mature .NET technology... Did you do any actual WinPhone 7 Development? - I'm still to start - I have that big Petzold book opened on first page, no time at all to study through... Thank you. -- Shamil 26 ??????? 2012, 16:55 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > I started with VS2005, and somehow I at once noticed the tableadapters and datatables and didn't look back ... > > I haven't had use for n-tier systems nor DALs, so I haven't worked with these. Today I think the Entity Framework is the most promising - and web services for remote apps. > > But currently I'm busy with other tasks so I haven't the time I wish I had for going deeper into this and the datasets. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 26-02-12 11:57 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > > That looks good. But I have nothing to compare with - I've never used OleDbCommand. > Lucky man! :) > I seems to have started to develop using VS a bit earlier than yourself when using ADO.NET Datasets especially in ASP.NET applications was a kind of "bad practice" because of datasets "heavy weight" comparing to OleDbDataReader/SqlDataReader, . That was based on real experts' opinions. (BTW, have a look at DNN sources they use SqlCommand and SqlDataReader quite a lot, till nowadays). > > Do you also use Dataset Project property of datasets, which I have mentioned here recently? > > The latter is becoming a real "life saver" for my current customer project having several MS Access lookup backends and one main backend keeping consolidated data from several reports imported from external sources.. > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 25 ??????? 2012, 21:35 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Shamil > > > > That looks good. But I have nothing to compare with - I've never used OleDbCommand. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-02-12 12:24 >>> > > Hi All -- > > > > *I have a custom application using several MS Access backends where data are loaded/imported from several .csv (report) files and then processed to get common lookup values. The source tables for the latter ones (lookup values) are loaded from MS Access databases into memory to speed-up the whole process - here are the loading stats: > > > > - lookup dataset #1 - loaded 4014 rows in 0.218 seconds > > - lookup dataset #2 -loaded 1425 rows in 0.105 seconds > > - lookup dataset #3 -*loaded 14955 rows in 0.236 seconds > > - lookup dataset #4 -*loaded 29316 rows in 0.493 seconds > > - lookup dataset #5 -*loaded 9394 rows in 0.535 seconds > > > > Speed of data loading into memory looks impressive, isn't? - the testing system is a simple for nowadays PC - an year 2007 production dual core Pentium laptop with 3GB of memory running Win7 32bit. > > > > And * > > > > 100,000*searches (using ADO.NET data set .Select method) against loaded in memory datatsets takes ~5 seconds, > > 500,000 *searches - 21 seconds, > > 1,000,000 searches - 46 seconds > > > > Not bad at all. > > **I have mentioned here already that I haven't used ADO.NET datasets that much with MS Access backends - I have mainly used OleDbDataReader to get data into memory and then manipulate it via custom classes and update backend *using OleDbCommand and "action queries" . > > > > Based on the above stats I'm reconsidering now my usual techniques and I will be switching to mainly using ADO.NET datasets with MS Access backend for all kinds of data manipulation operations for desktop applications... > > > > Still ADO.NET datasets could be "heavy/memory consuming" for web/ASP.NET applications - that was ~year 2005 opinion from some experts I based my practice on - I suppose it should be now (year 2012 - and VS2010) checked how "heavy" ADO.NET datasets really are comparing with OleDbReader and related *"low level" data manipulation techniques - have you seen anywhere such stats? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil* > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Feb 26 13:08:55 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2012 20:08:55 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ADO.NET datasets - speed test Message-ID: Hi Shamil That explains. I haven't used Access MDBs for anything with VS so I haven't paid attention to the lack of compatibility with EF. However, I do have some experiments to carry out where a local database is preferred, and for that purpose I've just installed SQL Server Compact 4. No serious Windows Phone 7 development yet. I'am at chapter 10 of that book and do plan to move forward - but at the soonest. /gustav >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 26-02-12 19:44 >>> Hi Gustav -- I have started to work with Visual Studio.NET(2002) then VS2003 came as a big relief but actual fulltime VS development started for me with VS2005 - and now VS2012 is coming somewhere this year... Yes, Entity Framework and Web Services but Entity Framework is for MS SQL (and Oracle ....) and not (yet) for MS Access... And for MS Access ordinary ADO.NET Datasets with DataSet Project property allowing n-tier solutions work well... I have done quite a few Web Services development (still SOAP not WCF) - that is a mature .NET technology... Did you do any actual WinPhone 7 Development? - I'm still to start - I have that big Petzold book opened on first page, no time at all to study through... Thank you. -- Shamil 26 ??????? 2012, 16:55 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > Hi Shamil > > I started with VS2005, and somehow I at once noticed the tableadapters and datatables and didn't look back ... > > I haven't had use for n-tier systems nor DALs, so I haven't worked with these. Today I think the Entity Framework is the most promising - and web services for remote apps. > > But currently I'm busy with other tasks so I haven't the time I wish I had for going deeper into this and the datasets. > > /gustav > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 26-02-12 11:57 >>> > Hi Gustav -- > > > That looks good. But I have nothing to compare with - I've never used OleDbCommand. > Lucky man! :) > I seems to have started to develop using VS a bit earlier than yourself when using ADO.NET Datasets especially in ASP.NET applications was a kind of "bad practice" because of datasets "heavy weight" comparing to OleDbDataReader/SqlDataReader, . That was based on real experts' opinions. (BTW, have a look at DNN sources they use SqlCommand and SqlDataReader quite a lot, till nowadays). > > Do you also use Dataset Project property of datasets, which I have mentioned here recently? > > The latter is becoming a real "life saver" for my current customer project having several MS Access lookup backends and one main backend keeping consolidated data from several reports imported from external sources.. > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > 25 ??????? 2012, 21:35 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > > Hi Shamil > > > > That looks good. But I have nothing to compare with - I've never used OleDbCommand. > > > > /gustav > > > > >>> Salakhetdinov Shamil 24-02-12 12:24 >>> > > Hi All -- > > > > *I have a custom application using several MS Access backends where data are loaded/imported from several .csv (report) files and then processed to get common lookup values. The source tables for the latter ones (lookup values) are loaded from MS Access databases into memory to speed-up the whole process - here are the loading stats: > > > > - lookup dataset #1 - loaded 4014 rows in 0.218 seconds > > - lookup dataset #2 -loaded 1425 rows in 0.105 seconds > > - lookup dataset #3 -*loaded 14955 rows in 0.236 seconds > > - lookup dataset #4 -*loaded 29316 rows in 0.493 seconds > > - lookup dataset #5 -*loaded 9394 rows in 0.535 seconds > > > > Speed of data loading into memory looks impressive, isn't? - the testing system is a simple for nowadays PC - an year 2007 production dual core Pentium laptop with 3GB of memory running Win7 32bit. > > > > And * > > > > 100,000*searches (using ADO.NET data set .Select method) against loaded in memory datatsets takes ~5 seconds, > > 500,000 *searches - 21 seconds, > > 1,000,000 searches - 46 seconds > > > > Not bad at all. > > **I have mentioned here already that I haven't used ADO.NET datasets that much with MS Access backends - I have mainly used OleDbDataReader to get data into memory and then manipulate it via custom classes and update backend *using OleDbCommand and "action queries" . > > > > Based on the above stats I'm reconsidering now my usual techniques and I will be switching to mainly using ADO.NET datasets with MS Access backend for all kinds of data manipulation operations for desktop applications... > > > > Still ADO.NET datasets could be "heavy/memory consuming" for web/ASP.NET applications - that was ~year 2005 opinion from some experts I based my practice on - I suppose it should be now (year 2012 - and VS2010) checked how "heavy" ADO.NET datasets really are comparing with OleDbReader and related *"low level" data manipulation techniques - have you seen anywhere such stats? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil* From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Feb 28 17:50:17 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 15:50:17 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] How to delete your Google Browsing History before new policy In-Reply-To: <00fd01ccf64a$686cb7f0$394627d0$@winhaven.net> References: <00da01ccf5d4$90290120$b07b0360$@net> <00fd01ccf64a$686cb7f0$394627d0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <7C0BB70E72374DC9B8FE08AE8E543599@creativesystemdesigns.com> To All: Anyone concerned about the changing of the privacy policies of Google have one more chance to remove their old history. http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/320137 Jim