[AccessD] Slashdot: SQL vs Access for Learning Database Conc epts?

IMHO, the Access query designer is a rotten way to teach someone how to
write SQL code.  I have developed Access apps for 8 years now, and I still
cannot get more than 2 tables to join without using the QBE grid.  For
example (using the Northwind database), if I wanted to join the Orders table
to the Order Details and Employees tables in Transact SQL, it would look
like:

---
SELECT Orders.*
FROM Orders
INNER JOIN [Order Details]
ON [Order Details].[Order ID] = Orders.[Order ID]
INNER JOIN Employees
ON Employees.[Employee ID] = Orders.[Employee ID]
---

Simple, intuitive, easy to learn.  In fact, I wrote that snippet just now in
this email because it is so simple to do.

Access, however, looks like (taken directly from the QBE grid contents):
---
SELECT Orders.*
FROM Employees 
INNER JOIN (Orders 
INNER JOIN [Order Details] 
ON Orders.[Order ID] = [Order Details].[Order ID]) 
ON Employees.[Employee ID] = Orders.[Employee ID];
---

How the h*ll are you supposed to teach the rules of this join syntax to
someone just learning SQL?  You could spend weeks just teaching them the
various Jet engine rules for bracket placement!

When I took SQL Server in college, we didn't have any visual design tools to
use, just the query analyzer.  Students completely new to SQL in general
were writing complex queries after the first day!

OTOH, the Access QBE grid is far more useful than the one in Enterprise
Manager, which is a good thing since I need to use it for virtually all of
my Access queries.  Whereas I tend to manually type 90% of my SQL Server
queries in the query analyzer.


-----Original Message-----
From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research
[mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:22 AM
To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'
Subject: [AccessD] Slashdot: SQL vs Access for Learning Database
Concepts?


This was posted on Slashdot last night.  I'm sure some of the folks on here,
(like maybe Susan Harkins, Martin Reid, and John Colby), might have an
interesting opinion about whether or not Access is a good "training vehicle"
for
learning SQL.

 
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/11/1811206&mode=thread&tid=146&
tid=
185&tid=99

P.S.  About midway down in the reader postings, there are links to several
articles comparing the pros and cons of Access [SQL] to other SQL products.


Alan C. Lawhon

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