[AccessD] Slashdot: SQL vs Access for Learning Database Concepts?

Is Access a suitable tool for teaching database concepts to students?

Seems to be the subject

I use Access to teach database design to students on a Computer Degree
course. I use non graphical tools for teaching SQL because they are not
permitted to sue them on the course same goes for HTML


Martin


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brett Barabash" <BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com>
To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'"
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 9:46 AM
Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slashdot: SQL vs Access for Learning Database
Concepts?


> IMHO, the Access query designer is a rotten way to teach someone how to
> write SQL code.  I have developed Access apps for 8 years now, and I still
> cannot get more than 2 tables to join without using the QBE grid.  For
> example (using the Northwind database), if I wanted to join the Orders
table
> to the Order Details and Employees tables in Transact SQL, it would look
> like:
>
> ---
> SELECT Orders.*
> FROM Orders
> INNER JOIN [Order Details]
> ON [Order Details].[Order ID] = Orders.[Order ID]
> INNER JOIN Employees
> ON Employees.[Employee ID] = Orders.[Employee ID]
> ---
>
> Simple, intuitive, easy to learn.  In fact, I wrote that snippet just now
in
> this email because it is so simple to do.
>
> Access, however, looks like (taken directly from the QBE grid contents):
> ---
> SELECT Orders.*
> FROM Employees
> INNER JOIN (Orders
> INNER JOIN [Order Details]
> ON Orders.[Order ID] = [Order Details].[Order ID])
> ON Employees.[Employee ID] = Orders.[Employee ID];
> ---
>
> How the h*ll are you supposed to teach the rules of this join syntax to
> someone just learning SQL?  You could spend weeks just teaching them the
> various Jet engine rules for bracket placement!
>
> When I took SQL Server in college, we didn't have any visual design tools
to
> use, just the query analyzer.  Students completely new to SQL in general
> were writing complex queries after the first day!
>
> OTOH, the Access QBE grid is far more useful than the one in Enterprise
> Manager, which is a good thing since I need to use it for virtually all of
> my Access queries.  Whereas I tend to manually type 90% of my SQL Server
> queries in the query analyzer.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research
> [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil]
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:22 AM
> To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'
> Subject: [AccessD] Slashdot: SQL vs Access for Learning Database
> Concepts?
>
>
> This was posted on Slashdot last night.  I'm sure some of the folks on
here,
> (like maybe Susan Harkins, Martin Reid, and John Colby), might have an
> interesting opinion about whether or not Access is a good "training
vehicle"
> for
> learning SQL.
>
>
>
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/11/1811206&mode=thread&tid=146&
> tid=
> 185&tid=99
>
> P.S.  About midway down in the reader postings, there are links to several
> articles comparing the pros and cons of Access [SQL] to other SQL
products.
>
>
> Alan C. Lawhon
>
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