John Bartow
jbartow at earthlink.net
Mon Mar 3 12:06:01 CST 2003
Hi Rocky,
Based on Drew's advice you might want to check out the (HP)Compaq W4000 (P4
2.4G, 512DDR, 18GB SCSI, CD/DVD). Its not a server but is SCSI based and has
an open slot and external SCSI port open (for a tape backup, etc.).
I picked one up for less than $900 a couple months ago. Includes (ships
with) the option of Windows 2k or XPpro. I benchmarked it and it is a
screamer (which you obviously don't need - but its hard to get a SCSI system
at this price).
My server is about 3 years old and I have never had a problem with it. Its a
Dell PowerEdge Server (SCSI) and I added extra drive capacity and a 50 GB
OnStream Tape backup system.
HTH
John B
a good place to find the lowest price:
http://w2knews.pricegrabber.com
-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-admin at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-admin at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 10:49 AM
To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'
Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Server Needed
Nope, you don't need a hefty machine at all. You app isn't going to use
many resources at all, just file sharing.
I would recommend, if they are concerned about money, for them to just get
a Pentium III or IV desktop. (I'd say at least 256 to 512 megs of RAM).
Get three hard drives. (SCSI...but that may be a bit expensive....), Mirror
the OS, and RAID a data drive (you can do all of that in Disk
Management...with Windows 2000, no RAID controller necessary.) If you don't
want to setup a domain, then you can stick with Windows 2000 Pro. If you
want to setup a domain, then you'll need Windows 2000 (which ups the price,
but you already knew that).
Drew
-----Original Message-----
From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 10:25 AM
To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Server Needed
Drew:
This site will have no web or domain function. Email is through an ISP.
Little hard data crunching. My app is the main app on the system and it is
FE/BE (A2K) with the FEs on the client machines. Change anything in your
opinion?
Rocky
----- Original Message -----
From: Drew Wutka
To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:20 AM
Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Server Needed
Rocky, it is a common misconception that you need a rocking CPU for a
server. That is absolutely not true. There are a few 'purposes' of a
server, and not all of them require massive processor speeds, or tons of
memory.
1 - File Sharing
2 - Domain Control
3 - Network 'Service' Server (Proxy, Email Server, Web Server, etc).
4 - Server Computing (Hard data crunching)
5 - Server Side databases.
You need to realize the real limiting factors on a server. First is
network bandwidth. a 100 megabit line is roughly 12 megabytes per second.
That is not a lot. It is a fraction of the speed of a typical IDE drive.
If you go to a gigabit line, then you have a much larger data transfer rate
(10x, so you are talking roughly 120 megabytes per second...which is faster
then your typical IDE drive, but it is still less then a SCSI Raid
configuration). So, if you are just setting up file transfers, then you
don't need much of a machine to do it. It can have minimal CPU Speed (even
Pentium or Pentium II....though I personally wouldn't go lower then a
Pentium III to be on the safe side), and memory doesn't have to be whopping
(256 megs would do). This is because the file sharing is going to be slower
then actual file usage used locally (do to the pipe the data is going
through). A faster CPU or more memory isn't going to push the data through
faster.
Domain Controllers don't need to be whoppers either. I think we are
running a Pentium II (desktop) for a Primary Domain Controller here. No
problems. It doesn't have to do all that much as far as processing goes.
Network services. Well, it depends. We run everything but our mail
server on Pentium III desktops. (Proxy, web, intranet, etc.). It all runs
fine. Again, it is going to boil down to the network tunnel involved. With
a webserver, a common misconception is that you need to have a huge machine
to handle massive transactions. Absolutely not true. In a web server, you
have an even smaller pipe (we have a T1 here), so the data is being sent
through an even slower connection. Now, if you have a lot of Server Side
scripting, where the server is creating pages on the fly, then you do need a
decent CPU, and the more ram you have, the more pages that are 'cached'.
But again, you don't need a Cray. Email servers can require a bit more
power though. We use an Exchange Server. It's got a dual processor, with 2
gigs of RAM. The real catch is how heavy it is used internally. (for in
house comms).
Server Computing. This is where the most power is needed. There are
software packages out there that use server CPU time pretty heavily. For
example, we have a package called FlowTherm, and FlowStress. These packages
perform massive heat calculations, over and over and over. If you run this
software on a server, obviously the more CPU and memory you have the better.
Server Side Databases. You do need power on these. But again, you
are limitted by your network speed. However, your processor is going to do
a lot of work independant of the network traffic, so it probably should be
pretty fast, with lots of memory to boot.
Just my two cents.
Drew
-----Original Message-----
From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software
[mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 12:06 AM
To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: [AccessD] OT: Server Needed
Dear List:
Excuse the OT please but I know someone will know the answer:
I have a client who wants to upgrade the server on his network.
There's about 10 seats on his network, of which maybe 6 are being used.
Seems to me that he could use any good, fast P4 box with 1/2 gig of RAM ,
etc. Which is well under $1000 these days from dell, or gateway, with three
years on-site.
A local, old, fairly reputable company in San Diego - Datel - is
quoting him $1457 for and Intel entry level server with a P4 (speed
unknown), 512MB RAM, 80GB HD, with DUAL LAN RAID - whatever that is. Plus
another $775 for "WIN 2000 SVR W/5 CLIENT SP3 OEM-CD". Plus something
between 5 and 10 hours of installation charged at a price unspecified in the
quote.
Right now his "server" is an old Win98 box, slow, but effective.
My question is, what is the difference between a box that someone
like Dell calls a server and an ordinary computer? Does he need a server?
MTIA,
Rocky
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