[AccessD] Access Application - per unit cost

Jim Dettman jimdettman at earthlink.net
Fri Apr 7 17:49:58 CDT 2006


Shamil,

<<> Folks overseas don't really understand how
> we do business here.
I'm sorry - this is not correct statement, Jim :)>>

  I do believe it is.  I notice differences even here in the US between
North and South and East and West.  I'm not talking about how to keep a set
of books, but about the process by which things get done, how people
perceive things, and how they communicate.  That all affects the process
flow, software design, and development effort.

  This in no way was a put down of anyone.  If I as a developer moved to
India, Russia, or China, outside of the language issues, I would still have
difficulty in working efficiently.

  For example, if developing software for China, how many mistakes would I
make because I read left to right and top to bottom?  My head has been
programmed to work that way over 40 years and it's not something I'd unlearn
overnight. 

  Granted this is all starting to change with a global economy, but there
are still fundamental differences in the way people in different nations get
things done.

  Hiring a developer half way around the world to develop a complex piece of
software in my book is just asking for trouble. 

Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 5:30 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Application - per unit cost

>  I'd say to that fellow best of luck....
Jim,

That's in my opinion a correct/the best for you solution of this issue. He 
most probably go bankrupt soon. It may happen also he will make a fortune 
but he will never feel lucky from this fortune made on overexploitation of 
others. So the correct Wiseman solution is to leave him to go on his own...

> Folks overseas don't really understand how
> we do business here.
I'm sorry - this is not correct statement, Jim :)

I have been silently watching the first set of answers on this thread - just

to get the common context on this issue existing overthere.

Folks it's biased, this context and the common opinion, believe me.

People do business very similarly these days all around the World, 
especially in IT.
The only difference are the hourly rates/wages, which are still lower on the

East.
But they are also growing very quickly here and e.g. in many modern 
professions they are as high as on the West or nearing to them. 
Unfortunately software development here is not one of the popular 
professions. This is because there is no yet high market demand on custom 
software development for middle-/small-businesses, which themselves are in 
"embryonic" state here.
They should "wake up" soon when Russia enters WTO.
A developer's day cost for big companies here is ~800USD/day - not as high 
as there but not bad at all.
And this market exists for big players here for quite some time and only 
grows.

The effectiveness of the design and programming work is quite low in average

in the West Europe as I have seen.
The level of failures in very high.
Everybody knows that this "ever lasting software development crisis" started

when the first programming language was created  and it will probably last 
forever. And this is this crisis and inability for a long time to solve it 
what creates demand on low cost IT labor.

I here have many times these "east Indians", "east Europeans" (including 
Russians of course) crossing my road, stealing my customers by  bidding 
"dirt cheap" etc. As the result I lost almost all hopes a couple of years 
ago to find well paid projects to live here and to keep my family well. The 
situation changed to the better now, I have some good work but I still have 
to work as twice as I worked five years ago just to keep the same living 
level as before. And I can't say this "endless working marathon" is what I 
wanted from this life most of all...

The situation was that bad here that I even started to try to bid for 
projects on RentACoder - and I have soon found that "dirt cheap" are not 
only "east Indians" - these are folks (young programmers) from all around 
the World, many of them are from the West Europe and US and Canada - they 
are also going bidding lower than USD10/hour....

The civilized overseas programming average rates are currently 30USD/hour. 
They were higher, around USD 50/hour on year 2000 eve. But I doubt this 
(30USD/hour) relatively low rate will leave you there unemployed because to 
compete effectively worldwide, worldwide effective real or virtual companies

have to be created and to manage these companies, to effectively contact the

local customers over there experienced managers and developers like you are 
needed. There are not that much people like that there as far as I see - I 
think you can feel safe, at least while your economy is growing...

And there is so much programming work here - when you'll have all work done 
there ( :) )  then we will have a lot of it here for you and you'll be paid 
your usual rates because the rates here will be by that time the same as 
there and you will not need to go live here - you'll be able to work 
off-shore as well as I can do it now because of the high level of the 
current communication technlogy and because my qualification is good enough 
go compete worldwide without even leaving my home/office...

When the companies here go "dirt cheap", pay their programmers low wages 
then they have very high level of "work force leakage", unhappy developers 
leaving this country in searching for the better life over there. I have 
seen/visited such companies here - they state they are great, well, maybe, 
they develop not bad software - but, boy, you have to see the eyes of their 
developers, many of them are so sad and hopeless...

Shamil

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Dettman" <jimdettman at earthlink.net>
To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" 
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Application - per unit cost


> Eric,
>
>  I won't do that.  The problem with that setup is that the thinking and 
> the
> culture are just too different.  Folks overseas don't really understand 
> how
> we do business here.  I've seen way too many apps developed overseas that
> were just trash because of this.
>
>  And you'll end up paying later as well; ever try to debug a program
> commented with poor English or even worse, another language?
>
>  I'd say to that fellow best of luck....
>
> Jim.
>
<<< tail skipped >>> 

-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com





More information about the AccessD mailing list