[AccessD] Moderator Message

jwcolby jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com
Thu Aug 6 08:30:55 CDT 2009


Is there any way to display on the web page the number of list members in each list?

One of the reasons that I post most of what I post to AccessD is simply my deep disbelief that the 
other lists have a very large following.  As an example I posted the recent SQL questions to both 
lists and got several responses from AccessD and one from the SQL Server list.

Another reason I post the OT stuff to AccessD is that I am addressing a group of friends who I know 
are on AccessD but have no clue whether they are on any specific other list.

We have always had a component of AccessD who come here for technical questions, rarely if ever 
answer questions, post when they need help and otherwise just lurk in the background.  Their 
attitude has often been "this list is a technical forum that I come to for help.  Keep the damned OT 
stuff off the list please".  The appearance is that this group has no interest in the list other 
than what technical information they can get from it.

We have another component however that are very very old acquaintances and even close friends.  That 
component has been here from the nineties and I know more about some of them than I know about some 
of my own family.  Unless I am answering a technical question, I am posting specifically to those 
people.

Rightly or wrongly, I have developed an attitude that in a very real way this list "belongs" to me 
and a small group of other people.  I am probably one of the top 10 providers of technical support 
answers over the entire 12 years that I have been here.  I have written detailed and lengthy lecture 
series on several different subjects and contributed them to the list.  I have contributed actual 
money to help get Database Advisors (the company) off the ground, I have served as an officer of the 
company and I sit on the board.  There are probably 20 other ACTIVE members who fit that 
description, and another (wild estimate here) 40 people who actually contribute technical answers on 
a regular basis.

After awhile, after so much time and effort in building AccessD it just FEELS like my own home, and 
unfortunately for some I end up treating it that way.  When I post OT I am talking to my friends, 
people who contribute to this list every day, NOT the lurkers who are here to get what they can but 
otherwise too busy to contribute.  In a very real way, everyone's opinions matter to me in some 
vague proportion to their contributions to the list.  I care very much what the regulars think and 
not so much the rest.

All of this sounds rather obnoxious I am sure, but that's MY reality.  I joined this list so long 
ago precisely because of who was here regularly, who contributed on a daily basis, opinions I could 
trust, discussing all kinds of things, but with a general focus on Access.

In the end it is NOT "my" list however, or my home.  A Board of Directors meeting has been called by 
our president to discuss how to handle this general OT question and I will abide by that decision.


John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi Andy
> 
> I think your attitude wearing the moderator hat is very British - always polite, precise, and with good timing - so at least you have full support from me.
> 
> Out of crisis grow solutions (as we these years can monitor on the largest scale) and I think your suggestion for an AccessD-Not list is very good. 
> 
> However, I would love to see the dba-vb stuff moved to AccessD which could be focussed on development stuff, mostly Access related but not exclusively. As Drew mentions, quite a few of us have moved from Access to other environments and others may be expected to follow. But I think most of us who have moved have not moved completely, and for example Shamil has done a great job constantly to maintain the link back to Access (Northwind). 
> Now, much the same way you can argue that the SQL Server stuff belongs to the AccessD list. Traffic is low at the SQL Server list and often relates directly to Access, and I see no problem moving that to AccessD as well. Sometimes we touch other engines and languages, like MySQL and PHP, and with this setup there would be no doubt where to post such messages. It should be no problem to include some keyword in the subject line as a guide.
> 
> That would leave:
> 
>   AccessD: Access, other developer stuff, SQL Server and other database related material
>   AccessD-Not: Not the AccessD content, in effect the current dba-tech list
>   AccessD-OT: The current OT list, anything not relevant for the other lists
> 
> Finally, I think I'm in line with most of the list members, that the value of this list is the massive and broad experience built from the sum of our present and current activities ready to support and educate you, not the count of messages per day.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> andy at minstersystems.co.uk 06-08-2009 09:09 >>>
> The Moderator's Lament
> ----------------------
> 
> I kind of started this thread off by speaking to John B, and I'm glad I did.
> I feel the list has become unmoderatable, at least by me. I have neither the
> energy nor the inclination to intervene as often as it would need to keep
> the list on-topic. If the majority want the mod to show teeth, as said, and
> keep everyone in-line then that'll be someone else. Then again I think that
> sounds like another list anyway not ours. But we are definitely divided into
> 2 camps on this. FYI on the few occasions it all gets too much and I do
> intervene I get more howls of protest than thanks. That's not meant to sound
> like I'm asking for deep gratitude, I'm just reporting what happens.
> Personally, taking the mod hat off, I like the chat most of the time and
> have some sympathy with JC's stance that without the OT stuff there'd be
> nearly no stuff at all, but this thread is also showing that not everyone
> agrees. So we need a ruling on this from the BOD, and when we have that we
> need everyone to (more or less) abide by it.
> 
> I am a little mystified as to why the AccessD-Tech list is hardly used. It
> seems ideal for the non-Access and for the chit-chat. I suspect it fell into
> disuse because too few people subbed to it so that if you have a general
> (and sometime urgent) question the only way to get to a large audience is to
> go to AccessD. So why don't we rename it AccessD-NonAccess (or maybe, in
> homage to Wayne's World, AccessD-Not), put everyone on it automatically (the
> key word), and use it as the sister list for all of the stuff we're debating
> here? If everyone was on it wouldn't that work? And those who want just
> Access can filter it into the bin. I know it's not an original suggestion
> but I can't see why it wouldn't suit everyone. Ok, AccessD might then have
> little traffic, but OTOH it might get more, because the current email-soup
> may in fact be discouraging newbies. And those of us who enjoy the family
> ethos of the list would get that from NonAccess.
> 
> I'll end with a plea. Let's stay together, let's not change the overall
> atmosphere of the list(s) but let's be aware that some of the quieter voices
> deserve to be heard too.
> 
> Your ever/over tolerant moderator
> 
> Andy
> 
> 



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