Jim Dettman
jimdettman at verizon.net
Fri Aug 7 09:29:19 CDT 2009
John, Appreciate the comments very much. Thanks. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moderator Message One of the things that I resent about EE is that they are VERY good about getting their results in the Google top N returned results. So if I DON'T want to view them (and I don't, particularly now that they are a pay only site) I end up clicking on them by mistake and having to back out. Jim, I have to say that you appear to have an investment in them similar to what I have in AccessD, put a lot of effort into them etc. I think that quite naturally colors your view of their service. A Google based search is fundamentally different from an email based "search". In AccessD you ask a question, with a subject line. That tags all responses as "of interest to you". As answers pour in, you can simply delete any subject not of interest and read your answers. With a Google search, you have to click into each response, set up a search in your browser to "find" keywords, and then search down to find whatever. Remember that what you are interested in may be the "subject" of the page you are in or it may just be mentioned in passing waaaaaayyyyyy down the page somewhere. Or too many times, it is not there AT ALL, the web page owner might have just padded his page with technical phrases to get you to click on his site. So Googling is inherently efficient IF the returned hit is in fact directly about what you are searching for, but that is (in my experience) only true in 10% or even less of the hits returned. Thus you spend a TON of time reading crap trying to find the gold. Unfortunately for me, I sometimes get pulled into the crap and read it just because... which makes the total time to find my answer even longer. I used to use EE when it was free, because it was there, not because it was particularly "expert". I usually know enough about what I am trying to discover to be able to differentiate between "likely to work" and "blowing smoke" or simply "misunderstood the question". But I have to say that in MY experience EE was never any better than any of the technical sites about the same subject, and often MUCH worse. Any yahoo can answer a question, and many yahoos DO answer questions. In the more focused technical sites there tend to be "experts" that you can very quickly discern their contributions and more importantly their names. It becomes easy to scan down looking for specific names and concentrate on their answers, since you can just tell that they are the ones with the answers. I am not sure EE ever had that, but I never found that to be the case. LOTS of Yahoo answers, which might very well be correct but if nothing else required a ton of winnowing to get at the wheat so to speak. The nice thing about AccessD is that while we often get many different answers, the vast majority of the answers actually address the question (ignoring the "wanders off topic") and actually provide valid technical content. Wandering off topic is an issue but can easily be handled in preview mode with the delete key. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Dettman wrote: > Charlotte, > > I'd be the first to admit that the PAQ database (Previously Asked > Question) has gone down in quality tremendously. When the site first > started out, it was of course smaller and had much more of that "community > feel" to it like Access-D does. There were far fewer questions and answers > were more concise. In the Access area, there were only a dozen or so at > most of Access Experts. > > Now with the number of members in the millions, it has moved more to a > "ask a question, get an answer" type format rather then relying on the PAQ. > Although EE still says that about 80% of the members still don't ask > questions and get their answers from the PAQ, I find it hard to believe. > You need to wade through a lot of stuff. > > Personally, unless you have a very specific question (ie. you have an > error message or something like that), it's very hard to get a answer from > the PAQ anymore. Your far better off to simply post a question and get an > answer and with the number of people now on the site, that happens fairly > quickly. > > That's really no different then what happens here on Access-D. You post > and get an answer or someone says "search the archives". I think here on > Access-D though there is a lot more quality to the posts then a lot of what > you'll find on EE. It's turned into too much of a points race there > (Experts get points for answering questions) so answers tend to be short and > quick. That all started when they allowed members unlimited question points. > Before that, the amount of points you had with which to ask questions was > limited, so you asked good questions and were more involved with the answer. > Now that's not the case and many questioners simply give up and move onto > another question since it basically costs them nothing. This is another > reason why the PAQ has gone way down in quality. EE has finally started to > put a cap on that by limiting the number of questions you can have open, but > it's too little too late I'm afraid. > > As far as the paying part, I always remember TANSTAAFL; There ain't no > such thing as a free lunch. As I've already pointed out, you sign up and > pay or contribute and get the service for free. They do have a limited > membership for 30 days that is free to try things out, but 30 days is all > you get. > > And to be clear, my point for posting all this is not to do this as a > form of promoting EE here, but trying to figure out what it is about EE that > everyone dislikes so much. I have to say, I was quite surprised at the > level of resentment towards EE the last time this came up. So much so that > you guys actually worked out a way to eliminate it from Google search > results. > > What I want to understand is it a matter of EE being misunderstood, or the > way in which it actually operates that is the problem. Frankly I'm > surprised that more of you have not shown up there or else where. > > I guess though that is a testament to Access-D. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 5:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moderator Message > > I have often wondered how Experts Exchange stays in business. I have > been a member in the past, but never could find the answers I needed > (where were those MVPs then, I wonder) and I resent not being able to > preview an article before I decide that I'm willing to pay for it. It > irritates me no end to follow a search link and discover I have to pay > up and sign in to even find out whether the piece is relevant. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 12:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moderator Message > > Ken, > > <<3. Co-opt Experts Exchange > It burns me that experts-exchange, AKA 'drooling idiots trying to charge > money for non-answers', is so dominating in technical search results. > They understand SEO, and are clobbering use in terms of exposure, even > if they have nothing to offer. What a waste!>> > > I think you really need to ask yourself that if they have nothing to > offer, then: > > A. Why are they still in business? > > B. Why do they have so much exposure? > > I don't know what you and others have run into on Experts Exchange, > but at last count, there are over 200 Microsoft MVPs that call Expert's > Exchange home. I don't believe there is a larger concentration of MVP's > anywhere on any site. > > Certainly there are idiots that will spout off non-answers, but there > are also a lot of qualified folks who hang out there as well. > > I find what seems to gall people the most is that they charge for the > service and make money at it. Personally, I find nothing wrong with > that. > EE incorporated in 1996 and almost went bankrupt along with a lot of the > other .com's that burst. But they changed their business model to > something that worked and as a result, their still around. That allows > them to continually work at and improve the site. As you yourself point > out; when's the last time Access-D had an overhaul and why not? > > Outside of all that, you can earn a membership by answering a few > questions a month. So if you contribute, then it costs you nothing. > I've been involved with the site since 1999 (after CompuServe went more > or less belly up - they sold out to WUGNET) and so far, I have not paid > a dime. > > Of course if your looking for more exposure and something that's free, > then I suppose you could try the Microsoft news groups. They haven't > changed their format either, but they certainly show up in the search > results more often then Access-D. > > Jim. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com