[AccessD] Poll on Access 2007

Eric Barro ebarro at verizon.net
Sat Jun 27 23:21:55 CDT 2009


Microsoft is going to protect their investment in their cash cow -- MS
Office. Which is why they are pushing Sharepoint and have made it as part of
the MS Office system. Sharepoint 2010 and Office 2010 are going to be
tightly integrated. Look around and you will see more and more companies
jumping into and experimenting with Sharepoint. It has two flavors -- a free
one called Windows Sharepoint Services and one that requires the purchase of
licenses called Sharepoint Portal Server. You can do a lot with WSS but the
way MS is packaging Office and Sharepoint licensing you will end up getting
MS Office cheaper than if you just bought into MS Office.

It's not a question of whether "if Microsoft ever fully succeeds in moving
us into their .Net world" as it is a question of when. .Net has been around
for quite a while and while there is still some reservation in the minds of
many developers, .Net is the way to go if you want to support Microsoft
products. 

If you haven't played with Sharepoint yet you might want to take a look at
it right now and understand the concepts behind it. It is a technology that
integrates with Active Directory services, Windows server technology, Office
interoperability, Windows Workflow Foundation, Windows Presentation
Foundation with SQL server as the database that controls everything (yes,
every element and item of information) and it is all web-based. It's basic
concept is the list analogy. Everything is a list. Calendars, Tasks, Issues,
Announcements, Links, Wikis, Document libraries. When you create any list it
creates the CRUD forms for you automatically. 

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:20 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007

Hi John and William

Much of what you say rings very true.

The most annoying thing is that Microsoft has decided that one of their old
battle tried products will be shipped off to obscurity and exist as little
more than a power-user toy in their office suite.

MS does not understand the complex inter-relationship between her free-lance
developers and her office group. One of their main office proponents has
always been the developer community. We are the people who suggest various
companies buy the full Office Business/Professional package and then we
would design complex applications tailored to their exact needs, using
Access as a FE.

If Microsoft ever fully succeeds in moving us into their .Net world there
will be no reason for us support Office. There is growing selection of
excellent open-source or web based alternatives available. 

A couple small companies that I am working with had wondered if they should
buy the next MS Office upgrade. As times are real tight and as their
consultant, I suggested that they try an Open Source alternative, after all
it is free, all the files, other MS Access are fully compatible and if they
really do not like what they are working with, they can just go back,
bite-the-bullet, with no loss. In the interim, I will develop a web-based
database system for them. One company for sure is going to stick with Open
Office and the other is still debating.

I have no way to know if this is a trend or just economics but I feel it is.

I will go one step further in stating that the main reason Windows has
remained a dominate OS is because of its office suite. For most businesses,
Office is the only Desktop Windows product they all use. Linux distros are
getting better with each release and if Microsoft's flag ship starts going
down there are some very fine challengers waiting for their opportunity.

Jim 


-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 6:32 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007

Well, it isn't quite that simple.  Leave the menus alone (or at least
provide a switch to get them back), leave the database tabs alone, THEN we
developers could have slid right in and started to work learning all the new
stuff.

Steve, you may claim 2007 being a shiny new car full of great goodies but
what you have to understand is that to the DEVELOPER... none of that shiny
new crap matters.
I have existing
projects many years old.  Every inch of screen real estate is used.  The
pretty toolbar is neither wanted nor needed.

And yet... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially)
on how to turn it off. 
Does that sound "developer friendly" to you?  They completely scramble where
all of the stuff is found.  Developers have to work in whatever environment
the client is in, which means (now) learning a completely new environment
just for Access 2007.  And what does all this rearrangement give THE
DEVELOPER?  Absolutely nothing but headaches.  Does that sound developer
friendly to you?

Everyone on this list makes a living in some way from Microsoft and Access.
I see very little
Microsoft bashing here.  Saying that MS is ignoring the developer
community's wishes is not bashing, it is just the plain and simple truth.

They are ignoring our wishes!

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Max Wanadoo wrote:
> Steve, If MS had of put a switch in there RibbonOn/RibbonOff and left 
> it
at
> that, then developers could merely have turned it off until they 
> needed, converted to A2007 with all their existing code and interfaces 
> and life would have been so happy.  But what they done was FORCE it 
> upon us.  It takes years to be proficient on new "stuff" and only 
> comes if it is common everyday frequent use.  You cannot become 
> proficient by doing a 2-3 week course or dabbling in it now and again.
> 
> I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the 
> basic stuff without ever having to look at previous code.
> 
> Max
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve 
> Schapel
> Sent: 27 June 2009 10:22
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007
> 
> Hi Max,
> 
> Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have 
> had
in
> 
> adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes
that 
> were given to us with Access 2007.
> 
> I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around 
> Access

> development.  Maybe yours will be too.  If so, it is my fervent hope 
> that
we
> 
> will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team 
> at Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular 
> decisions
in
> 
> order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product 
> that
is 
> unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future.
> 
> We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major
movement 
> towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only 
> make sense in retrospect.  But I don't think there is any secret about 
> the fact

> that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have 
> a hunch they're getting it right.
> 
> Regards
> Steve
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Max Wanadoo" <max.wanadoo at gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM
> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" 
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007
> 
>> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007.
>>
>> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms 
>> which enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the
World.
>> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs 
>> were never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it 
>> would have been nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for 
>> those who didn't want cutting edge.  But for me, MS has been a good 
>> thing.
>>
>> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, 
>> it has bought nothing to the table.  It has remove interfaces that 
>> have, in some cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the 
>> God "Looks".  It is functionality and benefits that count and these 
>> are beyond the scope of end-users - complex, behind the scene coding 
>> has to be done to make it "perform" in a real tough business sense.  
>> EG. What did the Ribbon bring to the table for a developer producing 
>> a MR2 manufacturing solution?
Answer:
> 
>> a
>> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than 
>> the interface has changed.
>>
>  
> 
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