Shamil Salakhetdinov
shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru
Sun Jan 2 13:30:48 CST 2011
Hi Dan -- Thank you for your comments. I'd not take MS marketing stuff as a base of any assumptions. I'd only use hard&soft stats numbers for such assumptions and real life experience coming from seasoned developers. As I noted I prefer to not participate in discussions "Programming Language A" vs. "programming language B". (Original thread: "Ded Moroz..." was not about VB.NET vs. C# but about several .NET technologies used in a sample application I published.) As for VB.NET and C# - I can program on both as many other developers do. I do use C# most of the time but when VB.NET programming is needed the switch/"parallel use" of both programming languages isn't a big issue as I have been programming on VBA/VB6 for 10+ years. But if a beginner .NET developer will ask me what programming language I'd recommend to use as a main one for .NET development, C# or VB.NET, my answer will be definitive - C# - coming from my real life development experience. Will C# or VB.NET (if any) be depreciated by MS with time - it doesn't matter here - it takes years to become an advanced .NET developer, and it takes just a week or so to adapt to one of another programming language syntax. (If C# or VB.NET will be depreciated all the source code will be possible to convert by automatic tools.) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: 2 ?????? 2011 ?. 21:49 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving to .Net (was Ded Moroz sends you ...) Hi Shamil, I'm not making arguments based on any hard numbers - these are logical arguments and some predictions which I believe will come to pass if my arguments turn out to be true. The statement about C# and VB.Net now being almost identical does come directly from MS. So - all previous discussions about C# vs. VB.Net went out the window with the release of VS 2010 and MS's alignment of the two languages. Don't make any decisions on what path to take based on a previous version of VS. Any arguments about one of them being functionally better than the other is now moot. So, if someone chooses one over the other, it's just a personal preference. When a business has a profit motive, personal preferences, even strong ones, will be overridden (sometimes gently - sometimes not) once the business owners realize they can make more profit going down one path and not the other. In this link, read the 2nd paragraph titled 'Coevolution'. This is MS's description of why they are making the two languages the same. What's New in VB 2010: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee336123.aspx In this link, scroll down to 'Visual Basic and C# Languages'. This says, "In Visual Studio 2010, the Visual Basic and C# languages continue to move toward feature parity. This enables you to choose a language based on personal preferences because both languages are equally capable. This section lists some of the new features in C# and Visual Basic." Visual Studio 2010 Product Highlights: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd547188.aspx I read through the article John referenced. That business owner had to make a hard choice in April 2009. At that time C# and VB.Net did have some differences. If he made the same decision about the time that the two languages were aligned in May 2010, it would have been much easier. My point is that there are some real influences which point to the usage of VB.Net becoming predominant over C#, and (I believe) the eventual deprecation of C# (although as John says that will be at least a long time from now). I know that developers want to believe that the language they know and have invested their time in is the best one, and gives them the skill that will make them valuable for many years. But how many VB6 or Access developers (who loved VB6 and/or Access) have moved to .Net? I'm making a recommendation to Mark to choose the language that I believe will be predominant in the future, for the reasons I've given. I'm not saying that everyone using C# now should quickly jump ship. Hope that helps, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 4:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving to .Net (was Ded Moroz sends you ...) Hi Dan -- I just wanted to ask you what are generally accepted statistics your statements are based on? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: 2 ?????? 2011 ?. 6:12 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving to .Net (was Ded Moroz sends you ...) I'd recommend VB.Net over C# for the following reasons: (I know some of you want to scream at me about this, but what I'm doing is making logical arguments, not passionate arguments.) With the release of VS 2010, the capabilities of C# and VB.Net are almost identical - there used to be significant differences in previous versions. Since both compile to the CLR, you get the same results in the end. Utility software exists which can convert one language to the other and back again. Because there is effectively no difference, software shops will be looking to hire developers not on which language can write, but on what value they bring. There won't be an automatically higher rate for C# developers. VB.Net is easier to learn than C#. And if you're an experienced Access developer it's easier yet. (Although easy is a relative term.) Because VB.Net is easier to learn, college students will learn it instead of C#. (When you were in college and you could save some time what did you do?) This will add to the proportion of VB.Net developers over time who will wonder why anyone would pick the more difficult language. Experienced developers, all other things being equal, can program faster in VB.Net. This makes you more competitive whether working independently or in a company. MS is trying to be leaner than they were in the good old days w/o Google and others. So they need to reduce duplication of resources. Making two similar programming languages identical is a good way to do that. The next step would be to deprecate one of the languages - and C# will stop being supported in 10 - 12 years. MS created C# so that Java developers could more easily transition to a .Net language while .Net was becoming mainstream. .Net is now mainstream. -------------------- On the cost-benefit: I'd say that if you want to continue to be an independent professional developer then VB.Net is the way to go. I've lost projects with potential customers just because the IT department didn't know what Access could really do - they saw it as a toy and my credibility as low. But if you are using VB.Net & SQL Server you've got credibility, even if you could have done the same project in Access at 1/2 the time and cost. Company decision-makers often don't care too much what something costs (even while they are screaming to keep the costs down) - they care more that they 'look' like good decision makers to keep their career path on track, and screaming at a supplier (or developer) to keep costs down looks good too. People often buy the more expensive thing because think it's worth more. Unless - the person who hires you is directly affected by Profit & Loss - then they really do care! Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 7:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Ded Moroz sends you links on sample projects... :) Good stuff John. Would you say based on your time-in-training that you are 50% as productive, 25%, ??? I'm just trying to gauge the cost-benefit of moving to C# dot-net. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com