[AccessD] Moving to .Net (was Ded Moroz sends you ...)

Shamil Salakhetdinov shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru
Sun Jan 2 15:46:20 CST 2011


Hi Dan --

<<<
... and since VB.Net is easier to learn and quicker to use, I think that's
where we'll end up...
>>>
I'm not arguing, and I'm not trying to "go endless cycles".
I'm just wondering why do you suppose that "VB.NET is easier to learn and
quicker to use"?
Is that just your own perception/experience?
Or do you have generally accepted (and "marketing noise" free) statistical
information to support your own perception/experience?

Have you seen the stats as the following (I have just googled using -
http://www.google.ru/search?hl=ru&biw=1920&bih=919&q=statistics+on+using+pro
gramming+languages&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=):

http://langpop.com/


Thank you.

--
Shamil

P.S. BTW, when MS hires then after C/C+ experience, they are wondering about
C#, not VB.NET experience - will MS "cut the branch they sit on"? - I mean
they should have now (and much more in the future) myriads of C# code lines
used for testing of their own software...

 
-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters
Sent: 2 ?????? 2011 ?. 22:55
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving to .Net (was Ded Moroz sends you ...)

>From MS: "This enables you to choose a language based on personal
preferences because both languages are equally capable."  And that's the big
picture. 

Does MS have motivation to maintain two languages, long term, that are
equally capable?  Probably not - they don't have unlimited resources.

And MS would never at this point publicly state that they have a plan to
deprecate either C# or VB.Net.  It's going to be a long time coming, but I
do think it will.

I think the paragraph you quoted is for public consumption by people who
will campaign hard for their chosen language.  It just makes everyone feel
that their own skill won't be deprecated.  It's important for MS to do that
to keep .Net developers as .Net developers, regardless of their choice of
programming language.  In two or three years, MS will have a different story
than what they said 9 months ago.

As time goes on people will realize that they have value as a .Net
developer, regardless of whether they are familiar with C# or VB.Net.  .Net
programmers will know that because either language can do the work of the
other, and they'll be able to easily read both, and maybe easily use both.
But the programmers will eventually realize that they'll want to just use
one of them, and since VB.Net is easier to learn and quicker to use, I think
that's where we'll end up.

My goal here is to look into the future - If you see future differently I'd
like to understand what steps you took to get there.  But I've done all the
predicting I can do - my next step is to see what the next version of VS
brings us, and then I'll try predicting again.

Dan


-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 1:19 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving to .Net (was Ded Moroz sends you ...)

"When major functionality is introduced in one language, it should appear in
the other as well. This doesn't mean that every feature will be in both
languages and work exactly the same way; indeed, each language has its own
history, spirit and feel-traits that are important to maintain."


This does not sound like deprecation is in the plan.

If you have studied the remaining differences you find things that may not
be trivial to port to the other language.  That article does not say that
the languages are now identical, in fact it explicitly states that they
still are not.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

On 1/2/2011 1:48 PM, Dan Waters wrote:
> Hi Shamil,
>
> I'm not making arguments based on any hard numbers - these are logical 
> arguments and some predictions which I believe will come to pass if my 
> arguments turn out to be true.
>
> The statement about C# and VB.Net now being almost identical does come 
> directly from MS.  So - all previous discussions about C# vs. VB.Net 
> went out the window with the release of VS 2010 and MS's alignment of 
> the two languages.  Don't make any decisions on what path to take 
> based on a previous version of VS.  Any arguments about one of them 
> being
functionally
> better than the other is now moot.  So, if someone chooses one over 
> the other, it's just a personal preference.  When a business has a 
> profit motive, personal preferences, even strong ones, will be 
> overridden (sometimes gently - sometimes not) once the business owners 
> realize they
can
> make more profit going down one path and not the other.
>
> In this link, read the 2nd paragraph titled 'Coevolution'.  This is 
> MS's description of why they are making the two languages the same.
> What's New in VB 2010:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee336123.aspx
>
> In this link, scroll down to 'Visual Basic and C# Languages'.  This 
> says, "In Visual Studio 2010, the Visual Basic and C# languages 
> continue to move toward feature parity. This enables you to choose a 
> language based on personal preferences because both languages are 
> equally capable. This section lists some of the new features in C# and
Visual Basic."
> Visual Studio 2010 Product Highlights:
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd547188.aspx
>
>
> I read through the article John referenced.  That business owner had 
> to
make
> a hard choice in April 2009.  At that time C# and VB.Net did have some 
> differences.  If he made the same decision about the time that the two 
> languages were aligned in May 2010, it would have been much easier.
>
> My point is that there are some real influences which point to the 
> usage
of
> VB.Net becoming predominant over C#, and (I believe) the eventual 
> deprecation of C# (although as John says that will be at least a long 
> time from now).
>
> I know that developers want to believe that the language they know and
have
> invested their time in is the best one, and gives them the skill that 
> will make them valuable for many years.  But how many VB6 or Access 
> developers (who loved VB6 and/or Access) have moved to .Net?
>
> I'm making a recommendation to Mark to choose the language that I 
> believe will be predominant in the future, for the reasons I've given.  
> I'm not saying that everyone using C# now should quickly jump ship.
>
> Hope that helps,
> Dan
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