[AccessD] Dirty property

[Steve Schapel]

Bill

You have misunderstood me.  I totally agree with you.  If you want to use 
form events to validate data when the form is being closed, then absolutely 
no problem.  Before Update is the way to go in my opinion.  I was not trying 
to advocate otherwise, I was just trying to explain to Susan the reason for 
the behaviour she was seeing.

Thanks.

Regards
Steve

-----Original Message----- 
From: Bill Benson
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 9:48 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Dirty property

I have to disagree with part of that answer Steve. The Close event does NOT
need to fire if the Unload event has cancel in it - which it could and
would if you set a flag in the Before_Update event which causes it to bail
in a graceful manner (ie, by sending them an error in the Form_Error event,
and then the Cancel =True in the Unload Event if they were not to be
permitted to close the form via the close button.

I have no problem with the close button in this case. Admittedly I have not
played with it that long, but I have to ask, have you even tried the
combination of testing whether any of the required fields are empty in the
Form's Before_)Update event, and if not all populated, setting a boolean
flag that will void the Unload event?

I am sensing resistance to this method before anyone has proved it to be
worth disregarding. To me it seems quite robust, but this is the last time
I am going to champion it - because ... I DO NOT USE BOUND FORMS LOL.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 5:20 PM, Steve Schapel <
steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz> wrote:

> Hi Susan
>
> Your conclusion is correct, but the rationale not quite right.  I think
> you are assuming that the form's Close event is directly connected to the
> Close button in the form's Control Box.  It's not.  If that Close button 
> is
> visible (which incidentally I never allow), and if it's clicked, there is 
> a
> series of form events that are triggered.  Probably AfterInsert in the 
> case
> of a new record, followed by BeforeUpdate, AfterUpdate, Unload, and then
> Close.  Don't quote me on the exact details ... but, you get the idea. 
> So,
> the point is, that by the time the form's Close event comes around, the
> record has already been saved, and therefore that event is too late in the
> process to be testing for the value of the Dirty property - by that time 
> it
> will always be False, not because you "cancel the current state of the
> form", but because the record has been saved and therefore it is not 
> Dirty.
>
> Regards
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:34 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Dirty property
>
> Well I don't mean to start anything, but I an willing to learn. What I
> think you're saying is... Access assumes when you click the Close button
> that you want to cancel the current state of the form... and thus... the
> Dirty property will also be False. If this is correct, I know how to
> proceed and I'm glad for the discussion. :) I'm just going to disable the
> Close button. :)
>
> Susan H.
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 7:46 PM, Darryl Collins <
> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote:
>
>  This is why you want to use unbound controls, as they behave as the user
>> would expect - not as the database does.  When a user 'cancels' a form
>> they
>> expect the record to be dropped.  This is not the case when using a bound
>> form.
>>
>> Naturally this topic (bound/unbound) often ignites a firefight - so sorry
>> for bringing it up, but that is my experience and one of the many reasons
>> I
>> use unbound forms.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Darryl.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
>> Susan Harkins
>> Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 8:52 AM
>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Dirty property
>>
>> So, usurping the form's Close event doesn't keep it from saving -- that's
>> confusing to me. What am I missing? Why would the Close button save the
>> record? I expect it to prompt me, not automatically save.
>>
>>
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