[AccessD] Dirty property

[Bill Benson]

Understood + IBID (my response regarding validation rules covered my focus)

:)
On Jul 23, 2015 6:09 PM, "Steve Schapel" <steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz>
wrote:

> Bill
>
> You have misunderstood me.  I totally agree with you.  If you want to use
> form events to validate data when the form is being closed, then absolutely
> no problem.  Before Update is the way to go in my opinion.  I was not
> trying to advocate otherwise, I was just trying to explain to Susan the
> reason for the behaviour she was seeing.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Regards
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Bill Benson
> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 9:48 AM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Dirty property
>
> I have to disagree with part of that answer Steve. The Close event does NOT
> need to fire if the Unload event has cancel in it - which it could and
> would if you set a flag in the Before_Update event which causes it to bail
> in a graceful manner (ie, by sending them an error in the Form_Error event,
> and then the Cancel =True in the Unload Event if they were not to be
> permitted to close the form via the close button.
>
> I have no problem with the close button in this case. Admittedly I have not
> played with it that long, but I have to ask, have you even tried the
> combination of testing whether any of the required fields are empty in the
> Form's Before_)Update event, and if not all populated, setting a boolean
> flag that will void the Unload event?
>
> I am sensing resistance to this method before anyone has proved it to be
> worth disregarding. To me it seems quite robust, but this is the last time
> I am going to champion it - because ... I DO NOT USE BOUND FORMS LOL.
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 5:20 PM, Steve Schapel <
> steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz> wrote:
>
>  Hi Susan
>>
>> Your conclusion is correct, but the rationale not quite right.  I think
>> you are assuming that the form's Close event is directly connected to the
>> Close button in the form's Control Box.  It's not.  If that Close button
>> is
>> visible (which incidentally I never allow), and if it's clicked, there is
>> a
>> series of form events that are triggered.  Probably AfterInsert in the
>> case
>> of a new record, followed by BeforeUpdate, AfterUpdate, Unload, and then
>> Close.  Don't quote me on the exact details ... but, you get the idea. So,
>> the point is, that by the time the form's Close event comes around, the
>> record has already been saved, and therefore that event is too late in the
>> process to be testing for the value of the Dirty property - by that time
>> it
>> will always be False, not because you "cancel the current state of the
>> form", but because the record has been saved and therefore it is not
>> Dirty.
>>
>> Regards
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins
>> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:34 PM
>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Dirty property
>>
>> Well I don't mean to start anything, but I an willing to learn. What I
>> think you're saying is... Access assumes when you click the Close button
>> that you want to cancel the current state of the form... and thus... the
>> Dirty property will also be False. If this is correct, I know how to
>> proceed and I'm glad for the discussion. :) I'm just going to disable the
>> Close button. :)
>>
>> Susan H.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 7:46 PM, Darryl Collins <
>> darryl at whittleconsulting.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>  This is why you want to use unbound controls, as they behave as the user
>>
>>> would expect - not as the database does.  When a user 'cancels' a form
>>> they
>>> expect the record to be dropped.  This is not the case when using a bound
>>> form.
>>>
>>> Naturally this topic (bound/unbound) often ignites a firefight - so sorry
>>> for bringing it up, but that is my experience and one of the many reasons
>>> I
>>> use unbound forms.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Darryl.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: AccessD [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Susan Harkins
>>> Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2015 8:52 AM
>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Dirty property
>>>
>>> So, usurping the form's Close event doesn't keep it from saving -- that's
>>> confusing to me. What am I missing? Why would the Close button save the
>>> record? I expect it to prompt me, not automatically save.
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>>
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