Erwin Craps - IT Helps
Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be
Sun May 16 12:07:01 CDT 2004
Well, In my mind I decided for Sounforge...
I don't remember the price anymore but it was more then I would like to
give.
I would only use it to put my Vinyls on computer. But everything I
needed was in it + it supports 192000 sample rate.
I only wanna due this once (putting vinyl on disk takes at least twice
the time of the recordplay time) and you gotta listen to it al the way
to here if it did not skipped etc...
So I supose one day I really start I will buy Soundforge unless a
comperable competitor comes out of the internet sleave...
For DJ software I use Mixvibes, there is a lot of potential in it, but
it has some bugs that can be irritating.
But its affordable an very promising. A lack is controllers. There are
not much of advanced controllers for DJ software.
Mix vibes is mainly focussed on live mixing.
For editing Mixing I like (only tested) Mix Meister (I beleive it is).
I can also do some stuff in My Adobe premier, but that not really
intended to beat mix....
And for regular "Music while I'm dooing stuff" I always use Windows
Media player, also for my archive management.
Erwin
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 7:46 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Phonographs to CDs
Hi Erwin
Thanks for the useful tips! As a former audio engineer I can fully
support your comments on sound quality and often wonder why people
accept things like MP3 for anything else than simple pop music with 6 dB
variance in volume, ringtones for mobile phones, and the like.
Also, external equipment is really needed; there simply is too much
noise inside a pc.
As for the audio gear, TerraTec has some nice components. And to all of
you: go and buy some decent speakers for your pc - for a few hundreds
USD/EUR you nowadays can get a nice brandnamed set from say, Altec,
Sony, or Teac.
What recording/editing software did you decide for?
/gustav
> Date: 2004-05-15 23:34
> I have been expanding my computer to put all my collection on pc.
> I finalised my cd collection (about 6000) songs and have done some
> testing to put my vinyll on computer.
> The vinyll is quiet a job... 2000 singles and about 1000
> albums/maxi's...
> I'm not gonna do all of them (bougth a lot of crap in my DJ period)
> but propably my favorites and populars..
> One could call me a sound purist, I disagree with that, I just want to
> listen to music as it was intented, that not purist or what?
> So to get to the point, MP3 is awfull, I get headeach listening to it,
> I tast metal in my mouth when listening to it....MP3 is terrible for
> music. The sound quality is so poor...
> And its not only MP3 infact I tested WMA-lossy to and they both sound
> horrible (at any bitrate).
> But I do understand it has some advanteges and is some situations its
> good. But rather due to a lack of...
> For example an MP3 on regular pc speakers can be reasonable. This is
> only due the fact that PC speakers are very limited in frequency
> range, so you don't here whats missing because the speakers can't
> reproduce it anyway...
> Same thing for a walkman headphone. Plug in a better headphone and you
> gonna hear what you miss.
> I used to be a DJ (long long ago) I always learned to keep your source
> always as good as posible.
> Therefor I decided not to use any lossy compression to put my
> collection on computer.
> A file created with a lossy compression can NEVER reproduce the
> original.
> A lossy compression (like MP3/4, OGG, WMA-Lossy) will always cut out
> pieces of your music and/or combine your stereo sound in to mono when
> it thinks it appropriate.
> Play a MP3 loud and you gonna hear easely where it goes wrong. Or play
> the cd and MP3 at the same time and cross over between both.
> So when I decided to only use a LossLess compression you don't have
> much choises.
> WAV (but that's no compression)
> WMA Lossless (V9 Media player change in options) I believe there is
> also a Professionel compression called AAC or ACC.
> The compression used for DAB (digital audio broadcasting) is a lossy
> compression (since it bandwith is limited)
> Cause WMA Lossless file are compressed smaller than WAV, my choice was
> clear (since no other).
> Ofcours the compression rate is not that good compared to MPx.
> So if I convert my WMA lossless to a Audio CD it is in the EXACT same
> quality as the original.
> If you would create a Audio-CD based on a MP3 the quality will only be
> as good as the MP3 file.
> WMA Lossless you can compare with a ZIP file.
> If you create and afterwards expand the zip the extracted content will
> be EXACTLY to the original.
> With a Lossy compression the original can never be reproduced, it will
> look like it but it isnt.
> I'm now experimenting the sample rate with soundforge software to put
> my vinyll on disk.
> I' havent decided yet if that will be at 44000 (CD quality) or at
> 192000. I read sum stuff that sound logical to me. 44000 is not
> sufficant enough to equal Vinyll qualtiy. As you know or not know
> Vinyll sound if far superior to CD. It is the cracks, noise and rumble
> that are the negativs of Vynill, next to the dis-comfort in use.
> So I ran some test on 44000 and 192000 and I can't pin-point the
> difference (wich I can for MP3 all bandwidths). But I can feel it...
> It's smooter, it's like the singer is standing in my room...
> Because putting my Vinylls on disk is a hell of a job (compared to cd)
> I only wanna do it once and do it good....
> I already made my mind that I will use a RIAA phono amplifier (to
> 10mv) between my Turntable and my computer. No other equipment (like
> amp or
> mixer) to avoid sound change and/or added noise.
> Short cables (always important).
> Next to that a good sound card is important. Most soundcards are
> equipped with a cheap AD convertor that produce noise. I bought a
> multiport AD sound card from terratec with external AD convertors.
> A computers produces a lot of electrical interference inside the box.
> I tried several softs (Including Roxy, Microsoft Plus Analog recorder,
> some stuff I downloaded and Soundforge). Soundforge is my prefered,
> but I find it very expensive for what it is and for that use.
> Never use a so called record improver (like in Roxio). They do tend to
> remove the scratches, noise and rumble but they attack yout sound
> quality to. And as I already said ealier, but now in other words.
> "DON'T TOUCH YOUR MASTERS"
> I must add another thing. I have never enjoyed my music collection
> since it is on computer.
> I used Windows Media Player and it is the best there is to manage a
> large collection.
> I put it always on ramdom, never here the same song again (unless i
> want
> to) and hear song I never knew I had. I have a lot of different styles
> in my collection.
> Dance, R&B, Disco, New Wave, New Beat, Pop (in all its variants),
> Jazz, Classical, Opera, Golden Oldies, House (and all its variants),
> Punk, Chanson Francaise, Rock, and probably I forgot some.
> Well it may sound funny, but you can't believe how nice and open
> minded it is to listen to Brahms, Talking Heads and Britney Spears
> after each other...
> You should try it!!
> Erwin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William
> Hindman
> Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:00 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Phonographs to CDs
> "I have the usual assortment of Talking Heads, Clash and Tupelo
> Chainsex, too" Arthur
> ...ah me ...I'm a cultural deficit all by myself :(
> William Hindman
> "The world's becoming a museum of socialist failures." John Dos Passos
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arthur Fuller" <artful at rogers.com>
> To: "'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'"
> <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 8:28 AM
> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Phonographs to CDs
>> >> Why not record them as MP3s?
>>
>> Gee, Drew, most of your posts have led me to think you are one very
>> smart guy! And then you go ask a question like this! Clearly your
>> musical tastes are decidedly limited (by range of Hz and volume, if
> not
>> genre). MP3 is fine if all you listen to is rock or jazz, whose Hz
>> and volume range is decidedly limited. Try an MP3 of almost anything
>> classical, though, and you'll see the gaping flaws in this
>> compression technology. I made an MP3 from Beethoven's Archduke Trio,
for example.
>> You'll wonder where the low notes on the cello went, and the implied
>> harmonics on the violin. They're simply gone.
>>
>> Granted, not all my phonographs are Euro-classical, or
> Indian-classical.
>> I have the usual assortment of Talking Heads, Clash and Tupelo
> Chainsex,
>> too. But I have over 100 phonos of Beethoven alone (all the
> symphonies,
>> the trios, the piano sonatas and the string quartets), and compared
>> to Bach, Ludy was not prolific. And then there's the Mozart stuff.
>> MP3s just don't cut it.
>>
>> Arthur
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew
>> Wutka
>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 8:31 PM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: RE: [dba-Tech] Phonographs to CDs
>>
>>
>> I am assuming you are porting the record player into your computer's
>> sound card. They make software packages that will record the input
>> or output of your soundcard into any format that you want. Since you
> found
>> a 'simple' solution for actually recording them, why not simplify the
>> process of recording them. Instead of burning them directly to CD,
> why
>> not record them to your computer as MP3's. That gives you several
>> freedoms. One, most turntables allow you to put multiple records on
>> them, and when the one playing is done, it drops the next. That
>> gives you a 'cycle' to allow you to run several at a time, without
>> 'monitoring' it and without swapping CD-R's on your computer. Two,
>> if you are recording them to MP3's, you have a few advantages.
>> First, in CD format, you will probably only get 1 LP per CD. Maybe
>> two, and
> maybe
>> less then 1. Either way, you are going to be wasting space on CD's.
>> Not too mention that CD's take up room too. However, a CD ripped to
> MP3
>> format is going to run 3 to 5 megs per song. Even if you are
>> averaging high, that would be 5 megs per song and let's say 15 songs
>> a pop, you are only talking about 75 megs per LP. That would be ~75
>> gigs per
> 1,000
>> LP's, so for 3,000 LP's, you're talking 225 gigs. This is a high
>> estimate too, I just looked at the folder I just ripped my Queen's
>> greatest Hits CD too, and it has 17 songs, and is only 67 megs. So I
>> would hazard a guess that you could get 3,000 LP's onto about 150 to
> 200
>> gigs. Then again, aren't LP's 45 minutes a side, which would be 90
>> minutes an LP, so it would be larger then a CD, and probably closer
>> to
>> 75 megs a pop.
>>
>> Anyhow, just looked on eCost.com, and they have a Maxtor 200 gig
>> drive for $149. Their 100 pack of CD's is $29. So to get 3000 CD's,
>> you're talking $870. Instead, get a large hard drive, and buy a
>> bunch of CD-RW's. Though not all CD players will play CD-RW's.
>> However, if
> you
>> buy a MP3 player (cd version), you can put close to 10 LP's on one
>> MP3 cd. Going the direct CD route is going to cost you at least 4
>> times
> as
>> much.
>>
>> On top of that, you get a REALLY nice perk. By putting everything
> into
>> MP3 format, on a single hard drive, you have a single backup source.
>> Want to make it 'safe' for posterity, just buy another drive, and
>> copy it over. One big transfer, instead of trying to copy 3,000
CD's.
> Grin.
>>
>> I will tell you that logistically speaking, you're biggest obstacle
>> isn't going to be the copying process. It's going to be the
>> 'information recording' process. CD's are recorded on internet
> CDDB's,
>> based on their individual ID's. LP's don't have that, so there is
>> nothing available to automatically populate the list of songs on an
> LP.
>> Their may be databases out there with the 'tracks' on an LP, that you
>> could have Access automatically rename the MP3 files into their
>> appropriate album and song names (of course, you'll also have to find
>> something to 'split' the LP MP3's into individual songs, honestly,
> that
>> actually wouldn't be too difficult, you could probably make you're
>> own 'splitter' in VB, though they probably have something like that
>> available.)
>>
>> Drew
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur
> Fuller
>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 10:23 AM
>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
>> Subject: [dba-Tech] Phonographs to CDs
>>
>>
>> I am pleased to report that I have finally conquered this problem. I
> can
>> now burn a CD from a record on my turntable! It turned out to be
>> ludicrousy easy. Reminds me of the old joke about the guy who punches
>> the refridgerator to make it work again ("it's not the punch, it's
>> knowing where to punch"). I simply didn't believe it could be this
> easy.
>>
>> Now for the hard part. I have approximately 3,000 LPs, virtually all
> of
>> them in mint or close-to-mint condition. (An Oracle turntable helps
>> :) Anyone got any ideas how I can automate their recordings? Perhaps
>> an illegal immigrant at a dollar a day :)
>>
>> Arthur
>>
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