Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research
alan.lawhon at us.army.mil
Tue Dec 7 14:54:46 CST 2004
Richard:
I do not mean to question what you're telling me, but I want to make
absolutely sure that we're both on the same wavelength. I understand
that the .NET "Framework" simply provides the .NET runtime environment,
(and NOT the various .Net developer tools - such as ASP.NET, ADO.NET,
and VB.NET - among others).
What I am specifically asking about is the information at this:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=9b3a2ca6-3647-4
070-9f41-a333c6b9181d&displaylang=en
Microsoft download site, where the following descriptive text appears
verbatim:
Quote:
.NET Framework SDK Version 1.1
The Microsoft® .NET Framework Software Development Kit (SDK) version 1.1 includes everything developers need to write, build, test, and deploy .NET Framework applications - documentation, samples, and command-line tools and compilers.
End Quote:
Of course, trying to decipher Microsoft marketing hyperbole can be something of an exercise in futility, but when you read this statement word-for-word, they do use the words "... everything developers need ..." (among others) and they ARE describing a "Software Developer Kit" (SDK) product. Also, the SDK download is approximately 106 Megabytes - which is quite a bucket of bits! (Pardon the pun ...) The .NET Framework (by itself) is just a tad over 20 Megabytes. (I know this for a fact because the .NET Framework [download] appears as an "optional download" when I run Windows Update on my home computer.
My question boils down to this: Are you SURE (really sure) that the "Microsoft .NET Framework Software Development Kit (SDK) version 1.1" [download] is merely the .NET runtime environment? (If that is all it is, what is the extra 86 Megabytes and why is Microsoft using terms like "command-line tools and compilers" as well as "write, build, test, and deploy .NET Framework applications ..." in their description of the product?
If this SDK can be used as a relatively inexpensive (or free) "learning tool" to help me learn (and write) VB.NET code, then I think it would be well worth the bother of downloading to my home computer - even on a slow dial-up connection!
I'm going to cross post this to the AccessD List in the hopes that Charlotte Foust and John Colby will see it.
Alan C. Lawhon
-----Original Message-----
From: Griffiths, Richard [mailto:R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:32 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual
Basic.NET Standard 2003 ..."
Hi
The framework simply provides the dotnet runtime environment. To
develop you need Visual Studio .NET 2003 "Professional" Edition. I've
seen recently for about $700 and this includes windows 2003 and sql 2000
(developer/test editions) - not bad really
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C
Contractor/Morgan Research
Sent: 07 December 2004 17:07
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at shaw.ca
Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual
Basic.NET Standard 2003 ..."
Jim:
Thanks for the .NET links & info - which I am now diligently research-
ing. I need a bit of clarification concerning one of the links you
provided. First, some background ...
We are in the process of coming up with a recommendation for our
customer
concerning what software (and development tools) should be purchased in
order to facilitate conversion of our environmental database application
to a "web enabled" environmental database application. I also have a
secondary goal of obtaining an "affordable" .NET integrated development
environment so that I can "play around" with VB.NET, ADO.NET, ASP.NET,
(and whatever-else .NET is required), on my home computer. (I have a
feeling I can learn more at home versus all the constant "distractions"
and interruptions here at work ...)
I have visited the link you provided to Microsoft's download site for
the (free?) ".NET Framework SDK Version 1.1" IDE. According to info
at this MS site, the 106 MB download contains "everything developers
need to write, build, test, and deploy .NET Framework applications -
documentation, samples, and command-line tools and compilers." I
presume this means that this download includes the VB.NET compiler,
ADO.NET, ASP.NET and other .NET development tools - in other words
just about everything that is bundled with Microsoft's full-up version
of Visual Studio .NET?
What has me scratching my head is this: I went to Microsoft's "Product
Information" page for Visual Studio .NET 2003 "Professional" Edition.
URL: http://www.microsoft.com/products/info/product.aspx?view=22&pcid=
9fdcc2af-6b86-4ee8-9b71-90cebe8626e6&type=ovr
and the "full up" (not upgrade) version of Visual Studio .NET lists for
$1,079.00 direct purchase from Microsoft.
So, why is Microsoft, in effect, "giving away" the .NET Framework SDK,
(Version 1.1) "free" at one of their download sites while charging
$1,079.00 for [virtually] the same product at another Microsoft site?
Either I'm missing something here, or I'm totally confused, or
something.
There has to be a "catch" here, because Microsoft doesn't "give away"
anything for free - or anything that is not "crippled" (or a woefully
lacking subset) of the full product.
Have you actually downloaded (and used) the ".NET Framework SDK,
Version 1.1" product? (We are leaning toward recommending that our
customer buy a copy of the full up version of "Visual Studio .NET 2003
Professional" edition.)
Alan C. Lawhon
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 5:18 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual
Basic .NET Standard 2003 ..."
Hi Alan:
I am currently following the same route, a little further ahead but if
you
look sharp I can be seen just up the trail a bit. Following are a few of
the
options out there. The actual portion of the .Net application suite that
generates the web code is ASP.Net but the full .Net studio has ASP.Net
incorporated:
Here is the pointer to the Asp.Net webmatrix editor and appropriate
tutorials...and it is free.
http://www.asp.net/webmatrix/tour/section2/newconn.aspx
Sharpe Develop is IDE has Asp.Net, C#.Net and Vb.Net (Open source)...and
it
is free. http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/
The SDK can be downloaded from M$...and it is free.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=9b3a2ca6-3647-4
070-
9f41-a333c6b9181d&displaylang=en
Nothing like fair pricing and a good place to start. The best OS
platform to
develop the coding and testing is on an XP or 2000 server as they have
IIS
built in and applications can test immediately.
Good luck and have fun.
HTH
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C
Contractor/Morgan Research
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:15 PM
To: dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
Cc: dba-AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual Basic
.NET Standard 2003 ..."
... or just try to learn what I can from [VB.Net] books alone?
Well, the "future" has finally arrived ... Here at work we have a
fairly
significant environmental database application that we have been using
(and
"tweaking") for the past five years. The application, called "EDS" -
which
stands for "Environmental Document System" - started off as a very
simple
Access 97 application. Over time, as the capabilities of the system
grew
and the need to provide client/server access was realized, the front end
migrated to Access 2000 and the back end [eventually] migrated to SQL
Server
2000 - which is where we are now.
Well, you know how customers are ... they are always wanting changes (or
"something new") and that is the case with our customer. EDS is
becoming
increasingly popular with users outside our immediate organization. So
popular, in fact, that our Government manager has requested that we "web
enable" EDS and make EDS accessible from a web browser - such as
Internet
Explorer. Gulp !! It didn't take too much web surfing (and research)
to
realize that "web enabling" EDS is going to be thirsty work ...
The EDS database consists of multiple form and report objects with lots
of
event driven Visual Basic code. Most of the VBA code is attached to
command
buttons as Click_Event() procedures. (There's a lot of logic testing
and
conditional execution for business rule implementation within the VBA
code.)
The research I have done (so far) indicates that I face a steep learning
curve when it comes to web programming. I'm already looking at "HTML &
XML
for Beginners" (book) by Michael Morrison and I have just ordered a
couple
of books on databases and VB.Net programming. (I have ordered
"Beginning
VB.Net Databases" by Thearon Willis and "Programming Microsoft Visual
Basic
.NET for Microsoft Access Databases" by Rick Dobson.) I figure these
two
books will give me plenty to chew on - at least initially.
The senior programmer and I have been looking on the internet for the
proper
.NET development tool. Right now it looks like we will be asking our
customer to pay for a full-up version of Visual Studio 2003 - or
whatever
contains the full "Professional" version of MS Visual Basic .NET. While
researching the various developer tool alternatives for VB.NET
programming,
I came across this page at Amazon.com's web site:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000089GKW/002-1179299-3348025
The "Standard" edition of Microsoft VB.Net [2003] appeals to me for two
reasons: It's (relatively) affordable - less than a hundred dollars -
and
the "Standard" edition might be a good "learning tool" for playing
around
with VB.Net on my home computer. However, the "Standard" edition
appears to
have a number of ... uhm ... limitations. (Look at Frank Spillman's
"Roadblocks, Roadblocks" reader review in the above link.)
I would be grateful if some of the folks on this list who have actually
done
some web programming (especially with VB.Net) could offer advice and
opinions with respect to the "Microsoft Visual Basic .NET Standard 2003"
[web] development tool. Basically, I'm wondering if the "Standard"
edition
has enough capability to serve as a useful "learning tool" - or is it so
"crippled" that I would be better off simply reading .NET books?
Thanks in advance ...
Alan C. Lawhon
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