MartyConnelly
martyconnelly at shaw.ca
Tue Dec 7 17:39:24 CST 2004
Sniff, real programmers don't use any of those fancy geegaw compiler tools just copy con: app.exe and Ctrl-Z when finished or teco vmunix John W. Colby wrote: >Real men (and Women) don't use IDEs. Command line compilers, command line >switches... Notepad for an editor... > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C >Contractor/Morgan Research >Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 4:57 PM >To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy"Microsoft Visual Basic.NET >Standard 2003 ..." > > >OK, now I understand ... Thanks Ron. As usual, Microsoft is being >incredibly obtuse and misleading. (I wonder if all software companies are >like this - or is Microsoft just a special case?) > >Alan C. Lawhon > > >-----Original Message----- >From: chizotz at mchsi.com [mailto:chizotz at mchsi.com] >Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 3:16 PM >To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual >Basic.NET Standard 2003 ..." > > >I'm going to jump in here and say that the SDK contains _command line_ >compilers that you can indeed use to compile .NET programs that you write in >a >text editor. So what MS says on their site is true. But to be productive you > >still need the Visual Studio tools to have the IDE etc. The SDK does NOT >include the framework itself; that is in the "Microsoft .NET Framework >Version >1.1 Redistributable Package" which must be installed before the SDK. > >Ron > > > > >>Richard: >> >>I do not mean to question what you're telling me, but I want to make >>absolutely sure that we're both on the same wavelength. I understand >>that the .NET "Framework" simply provides the .NET runtime >>environment, (and NOT the various .Net developer tools - such as >>ASP.NET, ADO.NET, and VB.NET - among others). >> >>What I am specifically asking about is the information at this: >> >>http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=9b3a2ca6-3647 >>-4 >>070-9f41-a333c6b9181d&displaylang=en >> >>Microsoft download site, where the following descriptive text appears >>verbatim: >> >>Quote: >> >>.NET Framework SDK Version 1.1 >> >>The MicrosoftR .NET Framework Software Development Kit (SDK) version >>1.1 >>includes everything developers need to write, build, test, and deploy .NET >> >> > > > >>Framework applications - documentation, samples, and command-line tools >> >> >and > > >>compilers. >> >>End Quote: >> >>Of course, trying to decipher Microsoft marketing hyperbole can be >>something of >>an exercise in futility, but when you read this statement word-for-word, >> >> >they do > > >>use the words "... everything developers need ..." (among others) and they >> >> >ARE > > >>describing a "Software Developer Kit" (SDK) product. Also, the SDK >> >> >download is > > >>approximately 106 Megabytes - which is quite a bucket of bits! (Pardon >> >> >the pun > > >>...) The .NET Framework (by itself) is just a tad over 20 Megabytes. (I >> >> >know > > >>this for a fact because the .NET Framework [download] appears as an >> >> >"optional > > >>download" when I run Windows Update on my home computer. >> >>My question boils down to this: Are you SURE (really sure) that the >>"Microsoft >>.NET Framework Software Development Kit (SDK) version 1.1" [download] is >> >> >merely > > >>the .NET runtime environment? (If that is all it is, what is the extra 86 >> >> > > > >>Megabytes and why is Microsoft using terms like "command-line tools and >>compilers" as well as "write, build, test, and deploy .NET Framework >>applications ..." in their description of the product? >> >>If this SDK can be used as a relatively inexpensive (or free) >>"learning tool" to >>help me learn (and write) VB.NET code, then I think it would be well worth >> >> >the > > >>bother of downloading to my home computer - even on a slow dial-up >> >> >connection! > > >>I'm going to cross post this to the AccessD List in the hopes that >>Charlotte >>Foust and John Colby will see it. >> >>Alan C. Lawhon >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Griffiths, Richard [mailto:R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk] >>Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:32 AM >>To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual >>Basic.NET Standard 2003 ..." >> >> >>Hi >>The framework simply provides the dotnet runtime environment. To >>develop you need Visual Studio .NET 2003 "Professional" Edition. I've >>seen recently for about $700 and this includes windows 2003 and sql 2000 >>(developer/test editions) - not bad really >>Richard >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan >>C Contractor/Morgan Research >>Sent: 07 December 2004 17:07 >>To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at shaw.ca >>Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual >>Basic.NET Standard 2003 ..." >> >>Jim: >> >>Thanks for the .NET links & info - which I am now diligently research- >>ing. I need a bit of clarification concerning one of the links you >>provided. First, some background ... >> >>We are in the process of coming up with a recommendation for our >>customer concerning what software (and development tools) should be >>purchased in order to facilitate conversion of our environmental >>database application to a "web enabled" environmental database >>application. I also have a secondary goal of obtaining an >>"affordable" .NET integrated development environment so that I can >>"play around" with VB.NET, ADO.NET, ASP.NET, (and whatever-else .NET >>is required), on my home computer. (I have a feeling I can learn more >>at home versus all the constant "distractions" and interruptions here >>at work ...) >> >>I have visited the link you provided to Microsoft's download site for >>the (free?) ".NET Framework SDK Version 1.1" IDE. According to info >>at this MS site, the 106 MB download contains "everything developers >>need to write, build, test, and deploy .NET Framework applications - >>documentation, samples, and command-line tools and compilers." I >>presume this means that this download includes the VB.NET compiler, >>ADO.NET, ASP.NET and other .NET development tools - in other words >>just about everything that is bundled with Microsoft's full-up version >>of Visual Studio .NET? >> >>What has me scratching my head is this: I went to Microsoft's "Product >>Information" page for Visual Studio .NET 2003 "Professional" Edition. >> >>URL: http://www.microsoft.com/products/info/product.aspx?view=22&pcid= >>9fdcc2af-6b86-4ee8-9b71-90cebe8626e6&type=ovr >> >>and the "full up" (not upgrade) version of Visual Studio .NET lists >>for $1,079.00 direct purchase from Microsoft. >> >>So, why is Microsoft, in effect, "giving away" the .NET Framework SDK, >>(Version 1.1) "free" at one of their download sites while charging >>$1,079.00 for [virtually] the same product at another Microsoft site? >>Either I'm missing something here, or I'm totally confused, or >>something. >> >>There has to be a "catch" here, because Microsoft doesn't "give away" >>anything for free - or anything that is not "crippled" (or a woefully >>lacking subset) of the full product. >> >>Have you actually downloaded (and used) the ".NET Framework SDK, >>Version 1.1" product? (We are leaning toward recommending that our >>customer buy a copy of the full up version of "Visual Studio .NET 2003 >>Professional" edition.) >> >>Alan C. Lawhon >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] >>Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 5:18 PM >>To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual >>Basic .NET Standard 2003 ..." >> >> >>Hi Alan: >> >>I am currently following the same route, a little further ahead but if >>you look sharp I can be seen just up the trail a bit. Following are a >>few of the >>options out there. The actual portion of the .Net application suite that >>generates the web code is ASP.Net but the full .Net studio has ASP.Net >>incorporated: >> >>Here is the pointer to the Asp.Net webmatrix editor and appropriate >>tutorials...and it is free. >>http://www.asp.net/webmatrix/tour/section2/newconn.aspx >> >>Sharpe Develop is IDE has Asp.Net, C#.Net and Vb.Net (Open >>source)...and it is free. http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/ >> >>The SDK can be downloaded from M$...and it is free. >>http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=9b3a2ca6-3647 >>-4 >>070- >>9f41-a333c6b9181d&displaylang=en >> >>Nothing like fair pricing and a good place to start. The best OS >>platform to develop the coding and testing is on an XP or 2000 server >>as they have IIS >>built in and applications can test immediately. >> >>Good luck and have fun. >> >>HTH >>Jim >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan >>C Contractor/Morgan Research >>Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:15 PM >>To: dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>Cc: dba-AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual Basic >>.NET Standard 2003 ..." >> >> >>... or just try to learn what I can from [VB.Net] books alone? >> >>Well, the "future" has finally arrived ... Here at work we have a >>fairly significant environmental database application that we have >>been using (and >>"tweaking") for the past five years. The application, called "EDS" - >>which >>stands for "Environmental Document System" - started off as a very >>simple >>Access 97 application. Over time, as the capabilities of the system >>grew >>and the need to provide client/server access was realized, the front end >>migrated to Access 2000 and the back end [eventually] migrated to SQL >>Server >>2000 - which is where we are now. >> >>Well, you know how customers are ... they are always wanting changes >>(or "something new") and that is the case with our customer. EDS is >>becoming increasingly popular with users outside our immediate >>organization. So popular, in fact, that our Government manager has >>requested that we "web enable" EDS and make EDS accessible from a web >>browser - such as Internet >>Explorer. Gulp !! It didn't take too much web surfing (and research) >>to >>realize that "web enabling" EDS is going to be thirsty work ... >> >>The EDS database consists of multiple form and report objects with >>lots of event driven Visual Basic code. Most of the VBA code is >>attached to command >>buttons as Click_Event() procedures. (There's a lot of logic testing >>and >>conditional execution for business rule implementation within the VBA >>code.) >> >>The research I have done (so far) indicates that I face a steep >>learning curve when it comes to web programming. I'm already looking >>at "HTML & XML for Beginners" (book) by Michael Morrison and I have >>just ordered a couple >>of books on databases and VB.Net programming. (I have ordered >>"Beginning >>VB.Net Databases" by Thearon Willis and "Programming Microsoft Visual >>Basic >>.NET for Microsoft Access Databases" by Rick Dobson.) I figure these >>two >>books will give me plenty to chew on - at least initially. >> >>The senior programmer and I have been looking on the internet for the >>proper .NET development tool. Right now it looks like we will be >>asking our customer to pay for a full-up version of Visual Studio 2003 >>- or whatever >>contains the full "Professional" version of MS Visual Basic .NET. While >>researching the various developer tool alternatives for VB.NET >>programming, >>I came across this page at Amazon.com's web site: >> >> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000089GKW/002-1179299-3348025 >> >>The "Standard" edition of Microsoft VB.Net [2003] appeals to me for >>two >>reasons: It's (relatively) affordable - less than a hundred dollars - >>and >>the "Standard" edition might be a good "learning tool" for playing >>around >>with VB.Net on my home computer. However, the "Standard" edition >>appears to >>have a number of ... uhm ... limitations. (Look at Frank Spillman's >>"Roadblocks, Roadblocks" reader review in the above link.) >> >>I would be grateful if some of the folks on this list who have >>actually done some web programming (especially with VB.Net) could >>offer advice and opinions with respect to the "Microsoft Visual Basic >>.NET Standard 2003" [web] development tool. Basically, I'm wondering >>if the "Standard" edition >>has enough capability to serve as a useful "learning tool" - or is it so >>"crippled" that I would be better off simply reading .NET books? >> >>Thanks in advance ... >> >>Alan C. Lawhon >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-VB mailing list >>dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-VB mailing list >>dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-VB mailing list >>dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-VB mailing list >>dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>_______________________________________________ >>dba-VB mailing list >>dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >dba-VB mailing list >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >http://www.databaseadvisors.com >_______________________________________________ >dba-VB mailing list >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-VB mailing list >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada