Max Wanadoo
max.wanadoo at gmail.com
Tue Mar 16 12:30:33 CDT 2010
>Then RunAFunctionWithADescritpiveName
An example of Pennsylvanian dutch spelling perhaps? <g>
Max
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:51 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
You don't have to type the whole word! Ctrl-Space, will autofill anything
VB will recognize....
<soapbox>
Ya know, if I went up to the person on the street, and said, spell 'hoop',
and they wrote 'Hoop', I wouldn't go, NO, 'hoop'.
The entire argument about case sensitivity really boils down to a generation
gap, between old case sensitive languages, and newer non-sensitive ones.
It's that simple. The true reason for case sensitivity is a moot point.
It's no longer necessary. What has kept it alive, is the 'conformity' to
it, not the necessity for it. You statement that it's part of a naming
convention is counter-intuitive when it comes to programming. A naming
convention is designed so that code is INHERENTLY more readable from one
programmer to another. It should NOT be a requirement to understand a
naming convention to be able to read the code in the first place!
The original reasons for case sensitive were space and time. There were
limited spaces in a line, and for a compiler to figure out the difference in
ascii between A and a took more compiling time. Neither of these is an
issue today, nor have they been for quite some time (in fact, for as long as
I've been programming!). So when you were pressed for space in an 80
character line, allowing x and X to represent two different variables made
life easier for the programmer. And saving a few cycles while compiling
also saved time, precious time, because when you were limited in line space,
you also didn't have Ghz processors, let alone Mhz or even Khz.
The irony, is that programming is logic at its best. The spoken/written
languages of humanity defies logic in many ways. 'She's Phat!'
(pronounced 'fat') would sound like an insult to the uninitiated, but for
people that pay attention to trends, they would understand that Phat means
Pretty hot and tempting. I before E, except after C, with x number of
exceptions. Throw Papa down the stairs his shoes. (An example of
Pennsylvanian dutch). Yet a world of 1's and 0's is logical heaven!
There was logic in the origins of case sensitivity, now we are stuck with a
habit, instead of logic. In fact, case sensitivity flies in the face of
logic, on the simple fact that a programming language's primary intent is to
provide a bridge between machine language and human language.
If I were to tell you 'Bob and I went to the store, and then bob and I went
to a restaurant, and that Restaurant is Denny's.' Logic would say that I
went to Denny's and a store with a guy named Bob. However, with the 'naming
convention' that is being applied to today's C descendant, I could be saying
that I went to the store with one guy, then went to a restaurant with
another guy, and that a restaurant that I might be pointing too is named
Denny's. With modern programming languages, we have the ability to write
code like this:
Dim int7DaysFromNow As Date = Date()+7
If SomeOtherDate>int7DaysFromNow Then RunAFunctionWithADescritpiveName
Yet constrictions of the past want to muck up the wave of the future with
long learned habits, instead of newer, and better logic.
</soapbox>
I am a Network Administrator, I am a Network Administrator, I am a Network
Administrator
Ah..... SNMP protocols and Active Directory... back to the world of logic I
go!
Drew
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Maddison
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 5:40 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
Hi Guys,
Drew, your code...
class SomeClass
{
private int someField;
public int SomeField
{
get { return SomeField; }
}
}
Can be written as...
class SomeClass
{
public int SomeField { Get; }
}
Hard to get more concise then that lol.
I've been coding in various VB languages since VB3 and am now (after a few
years) very comfortable with C#.
I actually find doing maintenance in VB6 a real problem now. It's so slow to
write code in the IDE.
Typing the whole word, how odd...lol.
As others have said, Foo and foo is very easy to distinguish in C#. Foo is a
class, foo is a local instance of Foo.
When you get used to it it makes good sense and actually makes your code
more not less readable IMO.
You just need to use a naming convention, preferably MS's.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/xzf533w0%28VS.71%29.aspx
Cheers
Michael M
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
Sent: Tuesday, 16 March 2010 8:51 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
I hate to chime in here, cause I haven't done any serious development in
about 2 years now. I still use VB 6, simply because I have so many tools
that I have built for that, and I have so much code already written that
it's not worth the effort to dig into anything new since I'm not doing it
full time anyways.
However, JWC posted a link from a "coder's" blog where he made a comment in
one of his posts about having to deal with 'sloppy code' where he clarified
that with 'other peoples code'. LOL. So dead on the mark.
There are standards, none of which are universally applied. So pretty much
every 'coder' out there thinks their code is the best written. But it makes
sense, since code, in a way, is an artistic output, that we create,
therefore the creator understands it the best.
However, as a 'semi-retired' developer, back in the days, I dabbled in
C++, php, even a little Java. And I always preferred VB 6, VBA and ASP.
One of my hang-ups with the C style languages is the case sensitive parts.
I remember having an argument with my sister years ago (about 9 years ago)
about this very topic. It just makes no sense to me to have strtemp and
strTemp represent two different values. No I googled, and found out that C#
is still case sensitive. And one of the links had a vivid discussion about
this. The C world pointed out that with case sensitivity, you could create
a class called Foo, and then have an instance of the class called foo.
Sure, great, wouldn't want to work on that code if my life depended on it.
But then again, it's a style difference. And as Max just posted, there is
all the structure nomenclature that, to me, just seems like just a hassle.
Why do I need to put ; at the end of a line?
Another issue I have had is that .Net requires much larger 'support'
files. And when it first hit, there were versioning issues with them.
I don't think this is much of an issue today, especially with the size of
available media (hard drives, DVDs, etc) and the wide spread use of
broadband. But I still like the simple 1.4 megs for VB6.... ;)
Dan, specifically to your post, however, I had to look up the word laconic.
I find that kind of odd to be used with C code:
class SomeClass
{
private int someField;
public int SomeField
{
get { return SomeField; }
}
}
Versus:
Option Explicit
Public SomeField as Integer
Can you really say that the C version is really more concise?
Drew
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:52 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
Hi Dan --
<<<
...because it's easier to read...
>>>
Well what of the following code lines is easier to read/understand/code for
a (beginner) programmer?:
string line = "test";
or
dim line as string = "test"
IMO (just IMO) defining a string variable named 'line' with initial value
equal to "test" is directly translated to C#'s code line:
string line = "test";
but not to a VB.NET one...
And there could be found many samples like that one above, more complicated
samples, which will highlight "one-to-one" correspondence between C# coding
and algorithmic specifications...
IMO (just IMO, I'm not trying to start a discussion here) C# is more
straightforward and laconic, and is expected to become "preferred"
programming language over time...
Thank you :)
--
Shamil
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