Shamil Salakhetdinov
shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru
Tue Mar 16 16:06:49 CDT 2010
OK, Dan, let's hope we will see what happens... Still, I can't get why do you suppose that "new programmers will now more often use VB.NET" - have you seen stats like the following (I have just found it)?: http://langpop.com/ Thank you. -- Shamil {^;^} -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:53 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010 Hi Shamil, Whatever investments have been made in the past are sunk costs. A company like MS will only use future costs/profits to make their decisions. I do believe that new programmers will now more often choose VB.Net, and new programmers eventually become the only programmers. We'll see what happens! Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:13 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010 Hi Dan -- <<< ... So I predict that in 3 - 5 years C# is going to be deprecated... >>> No, IMO they can depreciate VB.Net but not C# - AFAIK C# is very intensively used inside MS, also they have a whole new "state of the art operation system" - "Singularity"(?) - developed using C# etc. ... Look at "MONO" sources... No way to have C# depreciated IMO - BTW this is why I do recommend you to use C# as you're only starting with .NET... With Bill Gates retired VB(.NET() support is more an "inertia" there than anything else - when C# and VB.NET will get the same set of features (VS2010?) then it will be a waste of resources to support both(look at all that huge amount of technical books - C# and VB.Net versions), and then they will make a tool to generate C# code sources from VB.NET code sources but will depreciate usage of VB.NET compiler - in VS2014(?)... I can be wrong but how many times they did already "play bad" with VB programmers? Thank you. --Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:40 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010 To Everyone! This entire discussion is only meant to apply to VS 2010 (and up), where the two languages have the same functionality. So, how long will MS put up with supporting two identical languages? Only as long as they think they need to. One will eventually be deprecated. MS isn't worried about any existing experienced programmers - they can switch from one to the other easily enough, and they won't bug out of Visual Studio altogether over moving to one language or the other. What MS is concerned about are relatively new programmers who are deciding where to program - Apple? VS? Java? Linux? Something Else? What MS will do is set up their premier programming platform (VS) to be as appealing as possible to new programmers. C# is just less appealing than VB, if you're not already experienced in one or the other. So I predict that in 3 - 5 years C# is going to be deprecated. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 12:54 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010 In the current versions (2005 and 2008), there are some things you can do in C# that you can't do in VB, but not many. Of course, there's nothing to stop you from using, say, a J# dll to harness the power of THAT dialect, so it isn't an overwhelming advantage. There are things you can do in VB you can't in C# too. In the next version, that becomes history. There's a lemming trend that seems to happen with languages: the more esoteric the language, the more "professional". If any fool can read the code and possibly make sense of it, it can't be a "real" language for "professional" programmers. Weren't you aware of that?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:44 AM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010 Actually, I'm enjoying the discussion, don't leave yet. I installed Visual Studio 2008 months ago, cause some day I'm going to dig into C# and VB.Net when I have time! (that very well might be after the world is destroyed in 2012, but hey, here's hoping I get to it!) LOL. I would like to point out that your example (X + Y) * (Z^2-3) isn't using parenthesis for 'readability'. You have addition in the first, and subtraction in the last, and multiplication in between, if you didn't have parenthesis in your statement, the function would be completely different. Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally. But you bring up a good point, about mathematics and coding. Usually coders are good at math. Now don't take this the wrong way, cause this specifically isn't pointed at you, but in my experience, a lot of 'developers' are actually database people that have picked up coding, and coders are usually only using a database to store data relevant to their code. It's rare to find people that delve into multiple worlds and have them come out with compartmentalized understanding, or even relational understanding between the various worlds. But it's almost impossible to have people learn another sphere of learning without picking up some 'quirks' from the learning source! ;) So as to your statement about brackets 'simplifying' grouping/readability, I think that needs to be substantiated a little more. In the C world, which has it's own structure, it makes sense. In the examples: class SomeClass { private int someField; public int SomeField { get { return SomeField; } } } Can be written as... class SomeClass { public int SomeField { Get; } } 3 groups in one, 2 in another. In VB: Public SomeField as Integer No grouping at all, but it's only one property, in what could be a simple class. In your example, (X + Y) * (Z^2-3), what good does (X + Y) * ((Z^2)-3) do? It doesn't change anything, and it really doesn't make anything more or less readable. In fact, it is just lengthening the function. Moreover, both languages are commonly indented in groupings. If Something Then Do Something Else Do SomethingElse End if Brackets in the indentations are just overkill. Now, seriously, I can't believe you find {} and case sensitivity to be actual attractions to C#. I can understand that it may make sense within the C# paradigm, couldn't argue that if I wanted too! What is the pull to C#, other than more googable source and client requests. Is there any aspects of the language where you can truly do something that others can't? (From my personal perspective, there is functionally nothing I can't do in VB, that you can do in anything else. I don't program for OSes other then Windows, and many of the 'limitations' of VB 6, such as multi-threaded or NT services, I can actually do. I would like true inheritance, so that is my only real pull into the .Net world at all, right now!) Drew _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com