William Hindman
wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com
Tue Mar 16 16:27:58 CDT 2010
...nice find
William
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" <shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:06 PM
To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'"
<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
> OK, Dan, let's hope we will see what happens...
>
> Still, I can't get why do you suppose that "new programmers will now more
> often use VB.NET" - have you seen stats like the following (I have just
> found it)?:
>
> http://langpop.com/
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Shamil {^;^}
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:53 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS
> 2010
>
> Hi Shamil,
>
> Whatever investments have been made in the past are sunk costs. A company
> like MS will only use future costs/profits to make their decisions.
>
> I do believe that new programmers will now more often choose VB.Net, and
> new
> programmers eventually become the only programmers.
>
> We'll see what happens!
>
> Thanks!
> Dan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
> Salakhetdinov
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:13 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS
> 2010
>
> Hi Dan --
>
> <<<
> ... So I predict that in 3 - 5 years C# is going to be deprecated...
>>>>
> No, IMO they can depreciate VB.Net but not C# - AFAIK C# is very
> intensively
> used inside MS, also they have a whole new "state of the art operation
> system" - "Singularity"(?) - developed using C# etc. ...
>
> Look at "MONO" sources...
>
> No way to have C# depreciated IMO - BTW this is why I do recommend you to
> use C# as you're only starting with .NET...
>
> With Bill Gates retired VB(.NET() support is more an "inertia" there than
> anything else - when C# and VB.NET will get the same set of features
> (VS2010?) then it will be a waste of resources to support both(look at all
> that huge amount of technical books - C# and VB.Net versions), and then
> they
> will make a tool to generate C# code sources from VB.NET code sources but
> will depreciate usage of VB.NET compiler - in VS2014(?)...
>
> I can be wrong but how many times they did already "play bad" with VB
> programmers?
>
> Thank you.
>
> --Shamil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:40 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS
> 2010
>
> To Everyone!
>
> This entire discussion is only meant to apply to VS 2010 (and up), where
> the
> two languages have the same functionality.
>
> So, how long will MS put up with supporting two identical languages? Only
> as long as they think they need to. One will eventually be deprecated.
>
> MS isn't worried about any existing experienced programmers - they can
> switch from one to the other easily enough, and they won't bug out of
> Visual
> Studio altogether over moving to one language or the other.
>
> What MS is concerned about are relatively new programmers who are deciding
> where to program - Apple? VS? Java? Linux? Something Else? What MS will
> do
> is set up their premier programming platform (VS) to be as appealing as
> possible to new programmers. C# is just less appealing than VB, if you're
> not already experienced in one or the other. So I predict that in 3 - 5
> years C# is going to be deprecated.
>
> Thanks!
> Dan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 12:54 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS
> 2010
>
> In the current versions (2005 and 2008), there are some things you can do
> in
> C# that you can't do in VB, but not many. Of course, there's nothing to
> stop you from using, say, a J# dll to harness the power of THAT dialect,
> so
> it isn't an overwhelming advantage. There are things you can do in VB you
> can't in C# too. In the next version, that becomes history. There's a
> lemming trend that seems to happen with languages: the more esoteric the
> language, the more "professional". If any fool can read the code and
> possibly make sense of it, it can't be a "real" language for
> "professional"
> programmers. Weren't you aware of that??
>
> Charlotte Foust
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:44 AM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS
> 2010
>
> Actually, I'm enjoying the discussion, don't leave yet. I installed
> Visual Studio 2008 months ago, cause some day I'm going to dig into C#
> and VB.Net when I have time! (that very well might be after the world is
> destroyed in 2012, but hey, here's hoping I get to it!)
>
> LOL.
>
> I would like to point out that your example (X + Y) * (Z^2-3) isn't
> using parenthesis for 'readability'. You have addition in the first,
> and subtraction in the last, and multiplication in between, if you
> didn't have parenthesis in your statement, the function would be
> completely different. Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally.
>
> But you bring up a good point, about mathematics and coding. Usually
> coders are good at math. Now don't take this the wrong way, cause this
> specifically isn't pointed at you, but in my experience, a lot of
> 'developers' are actually database people that have picked up coding,
> and coders are usually only using a database to store data relevant to
> their code. It's rare to find people that delve into multiple worlds
> and have them come out with compartmentalized understanding, or even
> relational understanding between the various worlds. But it's almost
> impossible to have people learn another sphere of learning without
> picking up some 'quirks' from the learning source! ;)
>
> So as to your statement about brackets 'simplifying'
> grouping/readability, I think that needs to be substantiated a little
> more. In the C world, which has it's own structure, it makes sense. In
> the examples:
>
> class SomeClass
> {
> private int someField;
>
> public int SomeField
> {
> get { return SomeField; }
> }
> }
>
> Can be written as...
> class SomeClass
> {
> public int SomeField { Get; }
> }
>
> 3 groups in one, 2 in another. In VB:
>
> Public SomeField as Integer
>
> No grouping at all, but it's only one property, in what could be a
> simple class. In your example, (X + Y) * (Z^2-3), what good does (X + Y)
> * ((Z^2)-3) do? It doesn't change anything, and it really doesn't make
> anything more or less readable. In fact, it is just lengthening the
> function.
>
> Moreover, both languages are commonly indented in groupings.
>
> If Something Then
> Do Something
> Else
> Do SomethingElse
> End if
>
> Brackets in the indentations are just overkill.
>
> Now, seriously, I can't believe you find {} and case sensitivity to be
> actual attractions to C#. I can understand that it may make sense
> within the C# paradigm, couldn't argue that if I wanted too! What is
> the pull to C#, other than more googable source and client requests. Is
> there any aspects of the language where you can truly do something that
> others can't? (From my personal perspective, there is functionally
> nothing I can't do in VB, that you can do in anything else. I don't
> program for OSes other then Windows, and many of the 'limitations' of VB
> 6, such as multi-threaded or NT services, I can actually do. I would
> like true inheritance, so that is my only real pull into the .Net world
> at all, right now!)
>
> Drew
>
>
>
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