Dan Waters
dwaters at usinternet.com
Tue Mar 16 17:47:43 CDT 2010
I see a slightly higher usage rate for C# over Visual Basic.
Remember though, all that data is now invalid because that was based on when
the two languages had different features. With that in mind, you would
expect one of them to be more preferred than the other.
But with VS 2010, it's a new game. Neither language does more or less than
the other. And that's the basis of all my comments today.
Thanks!
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:07 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
OK, Dan, let's hope we will see what happens...
Still, I can't get why do you suppose that "new programmers will now more
often use VB.NET" - have you seen stats like the following (I have just
found it)?:
http://langpop.com/
Thank you.
--
Shamil {^;^}
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:53 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
Hi Shamil,
Whatever investments have been made in the past are sunk costs. A company
like MS will only use future costs/profits to make their decisions.
I do believe that new programmers will now more often choose VB.Net, and new
programmers eventually become the only programmers.
We'll see what happens!
Thanks!
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:13 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
Hi Dan --
<<<
... So I predict that in 3 - 5 years C# is going to be deprecated...
>>>
No, IMO they can depreciate VB.Net but not C# - AFAIK C# is very intensively
used inside MS, also they have a whole new "state of the art operation
system" - "Singularity"(?) - developed using C# etc. ...
Look at "MONO" sources...
No way to have C# depreciated IMO - BTW this is why I do recommend you to
use C# as you're only starting with .NET...
With Bill Gates retired VB(.NET() support is more an "inertia" there than
anything else - when C# and VB.NET will get the same set of features
(VS2010?) then it will be a waste of resources to support both(look at all
that huge amount of technical books - C# and VB.Net versions), and then they
will make a tool to generate C# code sources from VB.NET code sources but
will depreciate usage of VB.NET compiler - in VS2014(?)...
I can be wrong but how many times they did already "play bad" with VB
programmers?
Thank you.
--Shamil
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:40 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
To Everyone!
This entire discussion is only meant to apply to VS 2010 (and up), where the
two languages have the same functionality.
So, how long will MS put up with supporting two identical languages? Only
as long as they think they need to. One will eventually be deprecated.
MS isn't worried about any existing experienced programmers - they can
switch from one to the other easily enough, and they won't bug out of Visual
Studio altogether over moving to one language or the other.
What MS is concerned about are relatively new programmers who are deciding
where to program - Apple? VS? Java? Linux? Something Else? What MS will do
is set up their premier programming platform (VS) to be as appealing as
possible to new programmers. C# is just less appealing than VB, if you're
not already experienced in one or the other. So I predict that in 3 - 5
years C# is going to be deprecated.
Thanks!
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 12:54 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
In the current versions (2005 and 2008), there are some things you can do in
C# that you can't do in VB, but not many. Of course, there's nothing to
stop you from using, say, a J# dll to harness the power of THAT dialect, so
it isn't an overwhelming advantage. There are things you can do in VB you
can't in C# too. In the next version, that becomes history. There's a
lemming trend that seems to happen with languages: the more esoteric the
language, the more "professional". If any fool can read the code and
possibly make sense of it, it can't be a "real" language for "professional"
programmers. Weren't you aware of that??
Charlotte Foust
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:44 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010
Actually, I'm enjoying the discussion, don't leave yet. I installed
Visual Studio 2008 months ago, cause some day I'm going to dig into C#
and VB.Net when I have time! (that very well might be after the world is
destroyed in 2012, but hey, here's hoping I get to it!)
LOL.
I would like to point out that your example (X + Y) * (Z^2-3) isn't
using parenthesis for 'readability'. You have addition in the first,
and subtraction in the last, and multiplication in between, if you
didn't have parenthesis in your statement, the function would be
completely different. Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally.
But you bring up a good point, about mathematics and coding. Usually
coders are good at math. Now don't take this the wrong way, cause this
specifically isn't pointed at you, but in my experience, a lot of
'developers' are actually database people that have picked up coding,
and coders are usually only using a database to store data relevant to
their code. It's rare to find people that delve into multiple worlds
and have them come out with compartmentalized understanding, or even
relational understanding between the various worlds. But it's almost
impossible to have people learn another sphere of learning without
picking up some 'quirks' from the learning source! ;)
So as to your statement about brackets 'simplifying'
grouping/readability, I think that needs to be substantiated a little
more. In the C world, which has it's own structure, it makes sense. In
the examples:
class SomeClass
{
private int someField;
public int SomeField
{
get { return SomeField; }
}
}
Can be written as...
class SomeClass
{
public int SomeField { Get; }
}
3 groups in one, 2 in another. In VB:
Public SomeField as Integer
No grouping at all, but it's only one property, in what could be a
simple class. In your example, (X + Y) * (Z^2-3), what good does (X + Y)
* ((Z^2)-3) do? It doesn't change anything, and it really doesn't make
anything more or less readable. In fact, it is just lengthening the
function.
Moreover, both languages are commonly indented in groupings.
If Something Then
Do Something
Else
Do SomethingElse
End if
Brackets in the indentations are just overkill.
Now, seriously, I can't believe you find {} and case sensitivity to be
actual attractions to C#. I can understand that it may make sense
within the C# paradigm, couldn't argue that if I wanted too! What is
the pull to C#, other than more googable source and client requests. Is
there any aspects of the language where you can truly do something that
others can't? (From my personal perspective, there is functionally
nothing I can't do in VB, that you can do in anything else. I don't
program for OSes other then Windows, and many of the 'limitations' of VB
6, such as multi-threaded or NT services, I can actually do. I would
like true inheritance, so that is my only real pull into the .Net world
at all, right now!)
Drew
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